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The Most Annoying Clients?

by sethczerepak
34 replies
Is it just me or is the most annoying kind of client the one who asks for revisions on account of "grammatical errors," only to send you suggestions full of crap like this?

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"In fact, you'd have the exact opposite qualities as you struggle with your feelings of inadequacy - not to mention the harsh reality that your partner left you."

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I'm not saying having a relationship isn't important, but it's also important to take a step back and seeing how it fits into the general framework of your life!"

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It's one of my team writers, so I'm not encouraging them to write crap by taking the client's advice....probably just tell the client to jump in the lake (politely of course).

Impressive.
#annoying #clients
  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    My annoyance is with whoever's programming Word and other word processing software. I've had to show clients that the colored squigglies are wrong many, many times. Incorrect apostrophes are showing up all over the damn place, along with suggestions promoting super awkward sentence construction.

    They'll argue with me! "Word says it's wrong, Angie. Change it!"

    Seriously guys - the people who "wrote" Word are code writers, not grammar gurus. Pay attention to the writers who live writing rules all day, every day.
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    • Profile picture of the author Formal Shorts
      Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

      My annoyance is with whoever's programming Word and other word processing software. I've had to show clients that the colored squigglies are wrong many, many times. Incorrect apostrophes are showing up all over the damn place, along with suggestions promoting super awkward sentence construction.

      They'll argue with me! "Word says it's wrong, Angie. Change it!"

      Seriously guys - the people who "wrote" Word are code writers, not grammar gurus. Pay attention to the writers who live writing rules all day, every day.
      Those damned squiggly green lines!

      Infuriating.
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  • Profile picture of the author NickN
    If there's one thing I've learned since being a pro copywriter, it's that EVERYONE thinks they can write awesome copy... including a lot of the good clients.

    One thing I hate is when you get an especially grammatically challenged client who says, "I made some changes. Tell me what you think." That's usually when I find the hardest object near me and repeatedly slam my head into it.

    I don't know why some clients think their "suggestions" for improving the copy will be better than what the PROFESSIONAL copywriter wrote.

    Maybe they suggest these written turds to stroke their egos. ("Look, ma -- I can copywrite!")

    I don't know... but all you can say is, "Dude, when have you heard ANYBODY say, 'In fact, you'd have the exact opposite qualities as you struggle with your feelings of inadequacy - not to mention the harsh reality that your partner left you' in a conversation?"
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  • Profile picture of the author knish
    Everything depends on the client. You can negotiate some changes with some clients, with others, stubborn by nature, it's a waste of time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Griffin Smith
      The most annoying clients have got to be the cheapest.

      It's only a headline right???

      Argggrrhhhh.

      Why can't I just use this?

      Because it won't SELL

      Trust the people that do this for a living!

      Quality isn't easy and it's not cheap, because it takes TIME, EFFORT and THOUGHT to make you SHINE.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Griffin Smith View Post

        The most annoying clients have got to be the cheapest.
        You're telling me they are. Well, some of them at least.

        Like the character who just sent me an email saying he can't afford a copywriter at the moment, would I be able to do his copywriting for him free of charge? In exchange for a split of the profit. (Have I got 'mug' written on my forehead or sommit?)

        Perhaps one or two others here received the same email?

        Reckoned he's slaughtering the competition in the search engines yet isn't making hardly any sales. Finished with a PS...

        "I'm contacting a few other copywriters." :rolleyes:

        Great! What's that supposed to be, an enticement device maybe? A psychological subconscious mind trick to get me to jump all over this amazing offer instantly?

        I reply that I'm definitely not interested. Short and sweet.

        Back comes a reply telling me he really likes my style.

        I tell him again, I'm not interested - period.

        Back comes another reply chiding me for my lack of interest, again wanting to know why?

        At this point my patience is starting to wear thin. I tell him yet again, I'm not interested and please do not contact me again wasting my time like this.

        What does he do? Sends me another email this time telling me off for my lack of interest and professionalism. Good grief. :rolleyes:

        Sometimes they just make you feel like beating your head against a brick wall with exasperation, the thought running through my mind, what is it matey that you don't understand?

        Just makes me want to reach through his monitor, slap him across across the face a few times before throttling him. Grrrrr.


        Mark 'crankily cheerful' Andrews
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      • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
        Originally Posted by Griffin Smith View Post

        The most annoying clients have got to be the cheapest.

        It's only a headline right???

        Argggrrhhhh.

        Why can't I just use this?

        Because it won't SELL

        Trust the people that do this for a living!

        Quality isn't easy and it's not cheap, because it takes TIME, EFFORT and THOUGHT to make you SHINE.
        Nice.

        Here's how to diffuse the "it won't sell" in regard to a headline. Ask them to write you a sample of one that will. Then, have them split test it against yours.

        That will be the last time you hear that objection.
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    • Profile picture of the author NickN
      All this talk of cheap asses reminds me of this thread: Are you SURE you can't afford it?
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  • Profile picture of the author videolover7
    Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

    Is it just me or is the most annoying kind of client the one who asks for revisions on account of "grammatical errors," only to send you suggestions full of crap like this?

    --------------------------

    "In fact, you'd have the exact opposite qualities as you struggle with your feelings of inadequacy - not to mention the harsh reality that your partner left you."

    ---------------------------

    I'm not saying having a relationship isn't important, but it's also important to take a step back and seeing how it fits into the general framework of your life!"

    -------------------------

    It's one of my team writers, so I'm not encouraging them to write crap by taking the client's advice....probably just tell the client to jump in the lake (politely of course).

    Impressive.
    You're to blame... not the client.

    You failed to control his/her expectations.

    But it's not too late. Explain to the client that conversational copy converts better than grammatical-error-free copy. That explanation will settle the issue, because it's exactly what the client wants... higher converting copy.

    VL
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    • Profile picture of the author tomokun
      Originally Posted by videolover7 View Post

      You're to blame... not the client.

      You failed to control his/her expectations.

      But it's not too late. Explain to the client that conversational copy converts better than grammatical-error-free copy. That explanation will settle the issue, because it's exactly what the client wants... higher converting copy.

      VL
      Agreed - although the cheap penny-pinching clients are the ones that give you the most trouble. If someone tries to chew me down in price [association with rhyming pejorative intended :p], it has ALWAYS been better and easier to not do business with them.

      ALWAYS.
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      • Profile picture of the author videolover7
        Originally Posted by tomokun View Post

        If someone tries to chew me down in price [association with rhyming pejorative intended :p], it has ALWAYS been better and easier to not do business with them.
        The "associated rhyming pejorative" you refer to is insulting and derogatory. Take the anti-semitism elsewhere.

        VL
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      • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
        Originally Posted by tomokun View Post

        Agreed - although the cheap penny-pinching clients are the ones that give you the most trouble. If someone tries to chew me down in price [association with rhyming pejorative intended :p], it has ALWAYS been better and easier to not do business with them.

        ALWAYS.
        Who was even talking about pinching pennies? Not my original post, not even the poster you "agreed" with.

        Sheesh, read the post before posting a response will ya?

        Cheap clients should never give you trouble. You just price them out with a quote that's too high for them and that's it. The most annoying clients are those who have a lot of money and think that means they're a writing expert.

        PS: It might be better to get your post count up in the off topic forum. In this forum, most of us like to read someone's post before getting into the conversation. It's called Social Media. :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
      Originally Posted by videolover7 View Post

      You're to blame... not the client.

      You failed to control his/her expectations.

      But it's not too late. Explain to the client that conversational copy converts better than grammatical-error-free copy. That explanation will settle the issue, because it's exactly what the client wants... higher converting copy.

      VL
      If you'd read the post, you'd have noticed that the suggestions they made were full of errors and poorly written. Your unsolicited advice makes no sense in context.

      You also might have asked questions before assuming the job was for sales copy. It was a book writing project, The client is a regular who pays me $199 an hour for my writing time and $599 for one on one coaching.

      So a few minor annoyances aren't so bad...whadda you makin per hour bud? lol

      They hired an assistant to provide some "editing," of my "grammar" which is quite amusing considering. Since making this post, the editor is back to pounding the pavement.

      Anyway, thanks for the unsolicited advice, on a jestful post.

      In the meantime, how about checking out my signature and see if you want to reconsider who should be giving who advice.
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

        If you'd read the post, you'd have noticed that the suggestions they made were full of errors and poorly written. Your unsolicited advice makes no sense in context.

        You also might have asked questions before assuming the job was for sales copy. It was a book writing project, The client is a regular who pays me $199 an hour for my writing time and $599 for one on one coaching.
        Maybe you should take a little of your own advice and read the
        forum rules. This is the copywriting section so I also assumed
        that this was a copywriting client.

        Although I didn't respond to the OP I couldn't let this one pass
        by.

        -Ray Edwards
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Maybe I'm being contrarian here, but:

        To me, having annoying Clients just means you don't understand them. Because if you DID UNDERSTAND THEM, you'd have empathy for them and appreciate them for their input.

        But here's the the REAL KICKER:

        If they annoy you, it's a good indication you don't know your market. And if you don't know your market, there's probably a big disconnect between you and your market/Clients, in terms of your marketing AND your fulfillment.

        In other words, you may have attracted a Client who's not your target market.

        ---

        Let me give you a for instance:

        I have an old friend who's recently become a new Client. He's building out a "Rent-a-CFO" practice. Needs a website, marketing, etc.

        My team puts up a WordPress template on his website just as kind of a placeholder for now. A better template is in the works.

        So my Client, his partner and I talk yesterday, and I'm showing them the new template mockup.

        They look at it and say, "We like the first one better. We like the pencils." (The placeholder.)

        Now to be fair they did show off their placeholder website to a few coleagues and it got a favorable response.

        So I'm thinking sure, I could put the first one back and they'd be happy.

        But I tell'em "No."

        I say "Here's the thing: I'm sure you have Clients where you need to interpret their financials for them. They're not CFOs, are they? They don't really understand their business from numbers perspective, do they?

        It's the same thing here.

        Trust me when I say this placeholder template sucks from a marketing perspective and here's why..."

        Once they understood, they agreed. It was all of a three minute conversation.

        All because while they may not be marketers, they implicitly understood expertise trumps opinion. And I demonstrated it in their world.

        I wasn't annoyed with them, I didn't make it personal, nor did I chastise them for not being marketers. I appreciate them and their situation. My job is to generate cash flow and they're giving me free reign.

        ----

        I hope this helps.

        - Rick Duris

        PS: I'll tell you this, having annoying Clients would suck the inspiration out of me for sure.
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      • Profile picture of the author videolover7
        Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

        If you'd read the post, you'd have noticed that the suggestions they made were full of errors and poorly written. Your unsolicited advice makes no sense in context.

        You also might have asked questions before assuming the job was for sales copy. It was a book writing project, The client is a regular who pays me $199 an hour for my writing time and $599 for one on one coaching.

        So a few minor annoyances aren't so bad...whadda you makin per hour bud? lol

        They hired an assistant to provide some "editing," of my "grammar" which is quite amusing considering. Since making this post, the editor is back to pounding the pavement.

        Anyway, thanks for the unsolicited advice, on a jestful post.

        In the meantime, how about checking out my signature and see if you want to reconsider who should be giving who advice.
        Yeah, when I was a kid, we used to say a similar thing, "My father can beat up your father!" LOL

        VL
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    The most annoying clients? The ones that breathe.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    The most annoying clients are the ones that don't pay what they are due to pay.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      To the poster above me, yes I agree with you, they're a pain in the ass although often if you save everything into a PDF on your computer, if you do get a client playing funny buggers with you by doing a chargeback at Paypal - you can very often dispute it IF you can prove you've carried out and sent the work to the client who is now causing you trouble with the chargeback.

      I've had a couple try it on with me and they lost in each case.

      In this economy some people will try anything to get one over on you. What they forget after 30+ years in business is that I've already seen pretty much every trick in the book.

      Following on from my previous post, this is the email currently being sent out...

      *****

      "Would you be willing to go in with me as partners?

      Here's the deal...

      I am virtually the only marketer in a health niche that gets 30,000 unique searches per month (keyword in quotes). In less than a year I have been able to take my site to the first page of Google (currently ranks #8).

      I'm getting tons of free organic traffic (about 500 uniques per day and growing fast) from sufferers of a painful, embarrassing disease.

      I have created a great solution to their problem and currently sell it on my site and it DOES get some sales. It is the only treatment online you will find for this disease because I am the ONLY one in this market!!

      LITERALLY!!

      Yes, I know that is a very rare occurrence these days. Guess I got lucky!

      Anyway, problem is, I'm not making the kinds of sales I should be and I know I need help with not only my site set up but also the sales letter I have for my product (digital ebook).

      Now, I don't have money to spend, but I would be willing to go in as partners with you. I like your writing style and it fits my niche.

      I would really like to move on to other niches.

      I have over a dozen more niches just like this one that are virtually untapped with even more searches per month and this current site is taking up too much of my time.

      What I'm asking of you, is to go in with a fine tooth comb, make the appropriate changes as needed, and we can share in the profits.

      This really is a hungry niche, the money is there, but I'm not doing something right. I think I have an idea of what it is, but have no where to go to or ask for help because I do not want to reveal this niche to just anyone.

      So, is this something that you would be interested in?

      This is a REAL offer. I'm not asking for any hand outs. I have already done the hard work. However, with your expertise, it can explode! It's your expertise I am lacking.

      I look forward to hearing from you soon.

      Thanks.

      [Removed name]

      P.S. - Just so you know I am requesting the services of a couple of other copywriters."

      *****

      Of course he's now just sent me another email proving the kind of person he is - an absolute nightmare obviously to work with... (not to mention that he wants you to work for him for free). :rolleyes:

      *****

      Bear in mind... (He copied and pasted this bit from my sales letter)

      ...my usual copywriting rates start at $1,500 therefore this represents a whopping       $1,300+ OFF my normal copywriting fees.

      Call me a fool.

      Call me stupid.

      ____________________________________________

      "Okay then, I'll call you a stupid fool!!

      To turn down such a lucrative offer you have to be. Oh well, your good buddy from the forum has taken me up on this offer and also said you were crazy for declining it.

      Now YOU can piss off!

      And don't contact me any more. I have no patience with childish stupidity.

      Oh yeah, and now that I've had the chance to go back and review some of your past work, I see why you discounted your services so low? No one will pay full price for that crap, huh?

      Thank God this deal didn't work out. I should have reviewed your work first. You would have sent my product straight to the ****ter."

      *****

      Charming!

      I love you too man.

      Some of these guys crack me up. You'd normally have to pay for this kind of entertainment lol.


      Mark Andrews
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      • Profile picture of the author plainwords
        Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post


        "Would you be willing to go in with me as partners?

        Here's the deal...

        I am virtually the only marketer in a health niche that gets 30,000 unique searches per month (keyword in quotes). In less than a year I have been able to take my site to the first page of Google (currently ranks #8).

        I'm getting tons of free organic traffic (about 500 uniques per day and growing fast) from sufferers of a painful, embarrassing disease.

        I have created a great solution to their problem and currently sell it on my site and it DOES get some sales. It is the only treatment online you will find for this disease because I am the ONLY one in this market!!

        LITERALLY!!

        Yes, I know that is a very rare occurrence these days. Guess I got lucky!

        Anyway, problem is, I'm not making the kinds of sales I should be and I know I need help with not only my site set up but also the sales letter I have for my product (digital ebook).

        Now, I don't have money to spend, but I would be willing to go in as partners with you. I like your writing style and it fits my niche.

        I would really like to move on to other niches.

        I have over a dozen more niches just like this one that are virtually untapped with even more searches per month and this current site is taking up too much of my time.

        What I'm asking of you, is to go in with a fine tooth comb, make the appropriate changes as needed, and we can share in the profits.

        This really is a hungry niche, the money is there, but I'm not doing something right. I think I have an idea of what it is, but have no where to go to or ask for help because I do not want to reveal this niche to just anyone.

        So, is this something that you would be interested in?

        This is a REAL offer. I'm not asking for any hand outs. I have already done the hard work. However, with your expertise, it can explode! It's your expertise I am lacking.

        I look forward to hearing from you soon.

        Thanks.

        [Removed name]

        P.S. - Just so you know I am requesting the services of a couple of other copywriters."
        Those kind of con artists can be very persuasive. I have to admit that I once fell for something along similar lines, where the guy painted a picture of great riches awaiting me if I partnered with him (I could retire within two years) and also flattered me, saying he had hand-picked me after doing research online for two weeks etc. It turned out to be an absolute nightmare, with me being used and growing more and more stressed until I finally saw the light.
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  • Profile picture of the author DavidG
    Dam Mark - looks like you made the right choice. I would have probably fallen for it - maybe because I don't have 30 years on it.

    Anyways - as Eden Fletcher (The Proposition) would say; "What a vile specimen of humanity."



    David
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  • Profile picture of the author markpocock
    There's a saying;

    "Sometimes you have to go out on a limb.
    That's where the fruit is."
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    I agree about cheap clients being annoying...but you can just fire them and smile about it. The annoying ones (for my part) are those who have a lot of money to spend and so they think they know more about writing than you do.

    Griffin, I dig what you said about the headline. I love when people tell me something "won't sell" before they've even tested it.
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    I am thinking one time that such revisions are a necessary adjunct to clearly communicating forthrightly in an uncumbersome manner so the client can gain professorial experience in a real-time environment.
    Well, put.
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  • Profile picture of the author PhilippaWrites
    I think people in this thread might enjoy this site: Clients From Hell. I did lots of nodding in recognition!
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  • Profile picture of the author stephenwaldo
    Well, I do think there's a lot to be said for having good communication and standing up for your decisions as the expert.

    I learned this the hard way with one client that was determined to spend 2+ hours with me on Skype for just about every piece of content I sent them. They always had lots of suggestions and ideas for different 'directions' for each piece, and we would always end up no closer to completion than we started. Finally I just had to say...
    "If you don't like what I have for you, but don't know what exactly you want to change about it, that's okay! However, instead of going over it with you, why don't you just let me do the re-write on my own so we can both get more out of our time."
    I enjoyed writing for this client much more from that point onward, because we both understood how the other prefers to work. I don't mind doing lots of revisions as long as they don't mind me working independently. Capiche.

    That being said, I've also had the unfortunate opportunity to write for some pretty skeevy clients. One guy hired me to do something illegal (long story), one guy ran off without paying, and there are a couple that were just blatantly out of line in expectations for what they hired me to do (as in, their intention was obviously malicious).

    Then again, I've had a fair share of clients...At some point you just expect to see this sort of thing, and so it's not nearly as frustrating when it actually happens.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Hill
      Originally Posted by stephenwaldo View Post

      Well, I do think there's a lot to be said for having good communication and standing up for your decisions as the expert.

      I learned this the hard way with one client that was determined to spend 2+ hours with me on Skype for just about every piece of content I sent them. They always had lots of suggestions and ideas for different 'directions' for each piece, and we would always end up no closer to completion than we started.
      A good rule to remember is: Time is Money. Depending on the job and client, I'll usually add to the contract specifications something like "Up to one hour of consultation, with further time billed at $(whatever) per hour."

      This lets the client know that time is valuable and needs to be compensated. Ever call a lawyer for 5 minutes and get a bill for it? It's the same thing. Unlimited back-and-forth is not included in the base price.

      When good records are kept (I use an app for that), and the client is notified when the clock starts and stops, then there is never an issue. Advice they pay for is used more often than free advice, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author enterscope
    To me the most annoying clients are the ones that never want to let you go. I don't mind building you a website, but I want to teach you how to manage your online business by yourself so you don't need me anymore.

    I can't manage a billion websites by myself nor care to. It's really not that hard with content-management systems to run a website. My mom figured half of it out on her own. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    The customer's always right. That is, except when he's wrong.

    The last little go 'round I had with a client resulted from this comment: "That piece was loaded with grammatical errors."

    This was written in an email. I got out the work and read it through. Nothing. No errors. Then I checked it with the "Grammar Nazi" setting in Word. Still clean as a whistle.

    So I wrote back to the guy and asked him to point out what the hell he was talking about. A day later he told me his secretary who, in his words was a "drama queen diva" had proofed my stuff and made the "loaded with..." comment. As it turned out there was a single typo in the piece. So it goes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Hill
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      The customer's always right. That is, except when he's wrong.

      The last little go 'round I had with a client resulted from this comment: "That piece was loaded with grammatical errors."...As it turned out there was a single typo in the piece. So it goes.
      That seems to happen frequently with some clients, especially when a report goes through several hands before getting to us...comments such as "We received many complaints" turns out to be one person called twice, or "the website is broken" turns out to be a user connectivity problem, or the user was trying to do something that was not enabled (such as multi-select from a single-selection dropdown list).

      It's always useful (and time-saving) to determine the exact nature and source of the feedback before spending a lot of time trying to find a problem that may not actually exist.
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  • Profile picture of the author RoyCTP
    Don't feel too bad, there are less annoying customers in copywriting than in web design! Imagine being done with a design after having it's mockup approved by a customer, then the customer wants "minor changes" or does not like this or that... It is beyond aggravating!

    Or a customer who wants more after the initial design has already been discussed and finalized. They do that because hardly any of these pest customers have a real design document or even a clue as to how such a website is supposed to run. Imagine a customer who asks "can I get something that acts like facebook with youtube mixed in, can you do that and how much?" "I am on a low budget"

    Yes this happens! I envy you copywriters in many ways!

    However with my writer and friend, I have yet to get a complaint about website content he has done. However, I may change my mind if I ever run into such pests!
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  • Profile picture of the author SoftWarp
    Language lives. Writers that have impact DO violate rules. Otherwise language would not develop. If somebody reminds me of "mistakes", I'll remind them of how many mistakes I make intentionally. "correctness" in itself just does not catch attention, after all, right?
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