Looking for some help when it comes to copywriting..

18 replies
I feel this is the weakest part of my business (yes, I know how bad that sounds) but I've still managed to do alright. I'm now at the point where I really want to get my copy game perfected and I'm sure it's going to take a long time but I'm more than ready. I'm wondering what is the best approach for someone in my position, I'm not sure reading books is the best approach as I like to take action and learn that way (I find it works best for me).

From what I've been reading it sounds like I should be trying to write out sales copy letters and watching Sales Letter Videos (rewriting them as well) to get a good feel for how the best write. If there's a book I should be reading alongside doing this that will help me get a better understanding overall as well I don't have a problem with that... and would love to hear any suggestions.

Just want to make sure I'm on the right track here with my assumptions..

Thanks for any feedback.
#copywriting
  • Profile picture of the author Theresa Perez
    Hi,
    You should find a few threads in the warrior forum where people are discussing courses/books they found helpful.
    Here's one such thread
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  • Profile picture of the author celinemhoran
    Hi Kennyall,

    The best way to master any new skill is to emerse yourself in it.
    The way you do that is by taking a course where you'll learn all
    the basics to becoming a good copywriter. The course I recommend is AWAI's Accelerated Program for Six-Figure Copywriting.

    This course will teach you so much and in no time have you writing
    long copy.

    I hope this helps you.
    Signature

    Celine Horan

    Info Product Copywriter for Professional Speakers
    "My expertise is marketing your expertise with passion"

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  • Kenny,

    I know you said you prefer action and experience-based learning, but there's no substitute from learning from the greats.

    Check out some books. I'd recommend the following:

    Eugene Schwartz - Breakthrough Advertising *A must-read*(think this is free anyway)

    Dan Kennedy - The Ultimate Sales Letter
    Joseph Sugarman - The Adweek Copywriting Handbook (These two will give you an A-Z on how to write a decent sales letter)

    The Boron Letters by Gary Halbert is a good read as well, and considering he's considered one of the world's greatest copywriters, is surely worth a look.

    My personal recommendation if you want a complete learning process, is to grab a copy of Clayton Makepeace's Desktop Copy Coach Course. It's very comprehensive and includes plenty of examples in the 1067 page book, and a whole PDF just as a swipe (200mb file if I remember correctly - again, a very extensive course, including PDF's, audios and videos.)

    This should get you started. But yes, copy out sales letters and such by famous copywriters, as you'll be able to piece together how they make their sales letters, and some of that knowledge will imbue itself in your personal writing skills. Very handy indeed.


    If you're after more material, let me know and I'll throw some more recommendations your way. There's no shortcut to being a great copywriter, as you probably know. The best and only TRUE way to do it is to just get stuck in, fill your head with knowledge and use it. You'll soon discover your 'voice', and find out what you're good at, what you're bad at, what works, and what doesn't.


    Best of luck Kenny,



    Ben.
    Signature
    50% converting squeeze pages, 12% converting WSO's, and more...
    BenPalmerWilson Copywriting
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  • Profile picture of the author loi77
    "The Copywriter's Handbook" by Robert Bly is a classic.
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Headstart
      Cool, thanks for the great feedback.

      After doing some searching in these threads one course that seems to keep being mentioned is one by Mike Humphries... is there a specific one I should be looking at by him as a beginner? If someone could point me in the right direction that would be awesome... I couldn't find an actual course by him for beginners but his name kept coming up.
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  • Profile picture of the author DavidG
    Clayton Makepeace's Ultimate Desktop Copy Coach Course...

    ...I paid good money to get it and I have no regrets. It shaved at least 2-3 years off my learning curve.

    I didn't like AWAI at all... and that's personally... maybe the way they teach didn't "click" with me, but again that's just my experience.

    If you can't afford high quality products then I suggest you visit the following sites -

    Gary Halbert - The Gary Halbert Letter

    Clayton Makepeace - MakepeaceTotalPackage.com

    Gary Bencivenga - Marketing Bullets | Gary's Arsenal


    Let me know what you chose to do, and if you have anymore questions pm me.


    Talk soon,
    David
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    • Profile picture of the author thedealmaker
      Hey Kennyall,

      After reading your post I got to thinking about when I first started in copywriting.

      I asked the same question you did.

      And got a ton of responses back. Not here on this forum but on another one that was popular years ago.

      Anyhow, at that time one of the names that kept popping up was Robert Collier.

      Every time I would look at an answer somewhere his name would pop up.

      So I did my due diligence. I looked him up and found quite a bit of info on him. Even at that time I remember Yanik Silver having a report about his "Do me a favor letter"

      I began gathering all I could about him.

      Ads that he wrote.

      Successful letters, and his failures as well.

      Basically I wanted to get inside his head.

      I even remember reading a letter discussing a secret of his written by Joe Vitale.

      That secret had me reading all the way to the end of his letter. lol

      I was convinced that his book could help me sooo..

      I purchased the Robert collier letter book and read it from front to back at least about 5 times. It's loaded with good principles that I knew would carry me a long way if I could remember to use them.

      Now on that 5th time reading it, I got an aha moment.

      On page 74, Robert mentioned the actual name of the books that he had used to learn about copywriting.

      That really stuck out this time for some reason. Then I got the idea, it would be a longshot, but, I wanted to see if by any chance those books were still in existence.

      I headed over to amazon.

      Did a search, and low and behold, there it was - a copy of the very same book Robert had mentioned.

      I became the kid in the candy store. The smile, the excitement...it was all there.

      However there was one problem. there weren't any available copies..

      Talk about a severe 60-0 in two seconds let down.

      There was still one last ounce of hope though.

      Google books.

      I headed over there next, typed in the name and a couple of them came up...

      And guess what..it was free to read.

      Ha...now I'm even more stoked.

      The books were just dripping with info on human behavior.

      These guys reveal all there is to know about the principles on writing damn good copy.

      See, the thing you don't want to do at this stage is to bombard yourself with so many different styles and info to the point where it all becomes confusing to you.

      There are a lot of good products mentioned here.

      But what you'll find is that each one of the copywriters mentioned has a different style of writing, a different style of research, and some styles clash with others.

      So what I would suggest to you is to learn one style, master that one, and add other pieces to it as you go along from the other copywriters.

      Now by all means you should have everything mentioned here in your copywriters library. Personally I have over 80 books on copywriting. Some hardcover and some digital because they are no longer in print.

      But first, learn the basic principles and structures.

      Then build off of that.

      I can only speak for myself when I say this...I learned a lot from the copywriters who are still alive today. But my biggest jump came from the copywriters from the early 1900's.

      The Herbert Watson's, the company called the system company etc.

      They put the principles of copywriting down in print, taught their writers how to use those principles, and set them loose to sell all kinds of things.

      But the best part is that their books didn't have fluff in them. Just solid info. No upsells, no downsells.

      Just here's how to write sales generating copy.

      And because they were teaching principles, they still can apply today.

      In fact my favorite book was by Herbert Watson, and it was over 500 pages.

      It was called Applied Business Correspondence.

      That's what it was called back then. Business correspondence.

      Here is a link to that book. Enjoy!!

      Applied business correspondence - Herbert Watson - Google Books
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      **Learn how to profit from mobile marketing and web 3.0 marketing in under 2 hours
      Click Here Now http://sixfiguresuccesssecrets.com/h...under-2-hours/

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    • Profile picture of the author ejunkie
      Originally Posted by regZ View Post


      Gary Halbert - The Gary Halbert Letter

      Clayton Makepeace - MakepeaceTotalPackage.com

      Gary Bencivenga - Marketing Bullets | Gary's Arsenal
      Those are some great sources.

      Check my signature. Apart from great copywriting resources, it also has tons of marketing secrets from some of the top guns in internet marketing. The entire collection is free.
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ejunkie View Post

        Those are some great sources.

        Check my signature. Apart from great copywriting resources, it also has tons of marketing secrets from some of the top guns in internet marketing. The entire collection is free.
        I think you'll find it's "John Carlton" not "John Caltron". Tsk tsk.
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  • Profile picture of the author videolover7
    Originally Posted by kennyall View Post

    I feel this is the weakest part of my business (yes, I know how bad that sounds) but I've still managed to do alright. I'm now at the point where I really want to get my copy game perfected and I'm sure it's going to take a long time but I'm more than ready. I'm wondering what is the best approach for someone in my position, I'm not sure reading books is the best approach as I like to take action and learn that way (I find it works best for me).

    From what I've been reading it sounds like I should be trying to write out sales copy letters and watching Sales Letter Videos (rewriting them as well) to get a good feel for how the best write. If there's a book I should be reading alongside doing this that will help me get a better understanding overall as well I don't have a problem with that... and would love to hear any suggestions.

    Just want to make sure I'm on the right track here with my assumptions..

    Thanks for any feedback.
    Hire a coach... an experienced copywriter who will teach you, give you homework, and review your work.

    Info products are nice, but books and courses don't give you personalized, specific-situation feedback.

    VL
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    • Profile picture of the author Headstart
      Originally Posted by videolover7 View Post

      Hire a coach... an experienced copywriter who will teach you, give you homework, and review your work.

      Info products are nice, but books and courses don't give you personalized, specific-situation feedback.

      VL
      This is something I was considering as well.. I know a lot of people are against "Guru's" or "Coaching" online but I've worked with coaches in the past for other aspects of my biz and they've helped tremendously.

      Any recommendations for someone whos very knowledgeable but won't be incredibly expensive?
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  • Profile picture of the author masterz
    Originally Posted by kennyall View Post

    I feel this is the weakest part of my business (yes, I know how bad that sounds) but I've still managed to do alright. I'm now at the point where I really want to get my copy game perfected and I'm sure it's going to take a long time but I'm more than ready. I'm wondering what is the best approach for someone in my position, I'm not sure reading books is the best approach as I like to take action and learn that way (I find it works best for me).

    From what I've been reading it sounds like I should be trying to write out sales copy letters and watching Sales Letter Videos (rewriting them as well) to get a good feel for how the best write. If there's a book I should be reading alongside doing this that will help me get a better understanding overall as well I don't have a problem with that... and would love to hear any suggestions.

    Just want to make sure I'm on the right track here with my assumptions..

    Thanks for any feedback.

    nobody seem to mention jason fladlein's 3 hour copywriting method. if you are willing to learn very fast. you can find out more by going to jmflad.com. check out one of the links on th right hand side for the sales page.

    but if you want more you can as well get his advanced copywriting course. although, this costs $497. if he is still selling this.
    personally, i love jason's products because he makes difficult things incredibly simple.

    but you will still do good enough using the 3 hour ad formula which costs $37

    all the best
    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author thewordwright
    Originally Posted by kennyall View Post

    From what I've been reading it sounds like I should be trying to write out sales copy letters and watching Sales Letter Videos (rewriting them as well) to get a good feel for how the best write.
    You are quite right - you should be writing and rewriting to hone your skills and, if you need anything reviewed, I'll gladly look it over As will most of us here on this forum, I'm sure. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Headstart
    So right now I've picked up a couple books and a course for $37 and this should give me a very basic understanding for the foundations of writing copy... It's been a very hectic week business wise so once things die down in a week or so I'm going to look into some coaching as well.

    I've put up 2 sales videos that I'm currently testing head to head so I'm pretty excited to see how that goes.
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    • Just a thought...

      Don't go for "information overload"

      Or the whole game becomes terribly confusing.

      Stick with the books mentioned.

      At least for now.


      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Headstart
        Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

        Just a thought...

        Don't go for "information overload"

        Or the whole game becomes terribly confusing.

        Stick with the books mentioned.

        At least for now.


        Steve
        Yeah definitely.. it seems like finding your own voice is a big factor and would be pretty tough to do unless you focused on the basics and grew from there.
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