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"Can You Help Me Make My Copy Convert?"

by Mark Pescetti
21 replies
A lot of people post their copy here essentially asking, “Will this convert? And if not, how do I get it there?”

Right off the bat, we’re at an impasse, because…

…There are a whole host of approaches and techniques you can apply in your copy to make it more effective.

But ultimately…

The difference between copy that WILL convert… and won’t… can sometimes be elusive at first blush (no matter how good OR bad your draft is.)

And most of the time, the expert advice given here by the copywriters who take their time to GIVE you free, structured feedback is fantastic.

Likewise…

I think it’s great when people want to learn how to write their own copy…

…because once you have the skill to sell through the written word, you can take your life into all kinds of interesting, profitable directions.

However…

Some people GET the copywriting process much faster than others.

And some people just don’t get it at all… ever.

I often wonder why I’m even reading certain critique requests…

…Because the copy is so raw, absent of a clear direction, contains little or no branding, doesn’t position itself in its intended marketplace and fails to deliberately HIT any specific emotions that I wonder…

“What’s the point?”

Sure…

Any thought provoking response is a tremendous teaching tool for those who are reading and looking for that unique “take away” golden nugget.

But what does it accomplish for the person who posts the thread, looking for feedback on how to take their copy to the next level? (Especially when it’s obvious they don’t have the skills to execute it.)

Is he or she REALLY going to work out the copy?

In all likelihood, no… it’ll remain fragmented, lack that big idea, continue to miss the emotional mark and consistently fail to convert.

That’s why copywriters are paid the big bucks.

…Because we can take a $5000 investment and turn your copy into a passive income producing machine.

That being said…

How does anyone know when copy WILL convert?

The answer is…

Nobody knows… for sure.

Sometimes people DO post copy here on the CW Forum that’s good.

And who knows…

Maybe if the right traffic is driven to it, the copy might convert…

…or just needs a few tweaks to make it resonate with the intended audience.

My point here is (or the take away, if you will…)

Copywriting IS a process.

I just spent 3 months on a sales letter.

Three-fricking-months!

I can’t even tell you how many drafts I created (and tested).

It’s a blur.

Likewise…

I would never even attempt to count how many hours I spent interviewing the company owners, researching, asking more questions, revisiting and studying influential websites in the marketplace, analyzing all the social proof (from their customers AND the competitions…) etc., etc., etc.

But we FINALLY nailed it – after I’m sure well over 100 hours of my time.

Okay, okay, okay…

I’m getting to the take away…

The bottom line is…

If you REALLY believe in what you’re selling, why are you wasting your time getting feedback from a myriad of different people, none of whom will spend the time to REALLY know the right answer…

…or eventually get to the right answer to make your copy convert…

…when you should be investing in someone to intimately take you through the WHOLE copywriting process?

There are dozens of copywriters on the CW Forum alone to choose from…

I’m really curious why you (i.e. the person who wants to make bank with your online business) don’t take the time to study the professionals who spend their time here…

…or scour the internet until you find someone you feel drawn to invest in? (Yes, that is a question.)

Isn’t that what people who BELIEVE in what they’re doing… do?

Don’t they take action and leverage their financial resources?

Sincerely…

I’m asking…

What do you gain, if anything, from posting your copy for critique here?

And wouldn’t you manifest what you really want, much faster, if you just took the path that most successful people walk on?

Mark Pescetti
#“can #“can #convert” #convert” #copy #make
  • Profile picture of the author saggsee
    Confidence in one word. Maybe. I know not sir of your history and as a somewhat newb to the CW forum I lack the self confidence to know if I am on the right track. Though for what I lack in self confidence in my fledgling copy writing skills does not deter me from asking the critique question. If I get a response I am very grateful if not I simply shrug my soldiers. Though your post here is somewhat long I do hope you have not wasted too much valuable time fretting over this and that my answer has in some way answered yours. Respectfully Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I've said this before. Most people only think they want a critique. What they really want, yet won't admit it, is for people to affirm that they've done a good job with what they've written. Everyone has a bit of that in them. I know I do. We want to feel that we've spent our time wisely. We want people to think we're clever. We don't want strangers taking pot shots at our children, our writing. I used to write a lot more critiques than I do these days. Recently I took an assignment from the main board to fix some writing. It was easy. All that was needed was a better explanation of a new twist on an old service.

    The guy who'd written the original absolutely refused to go along with logic and common sense. I delivered what I promised and he never used it. He did, however, make changes to what he'd originally written which made his page even more confusing than it was originally. I've experienced this many times as a writer.

    I wrote a sales page for a guy a couple of years ago. He said it came across like a cure for acne and wanted it re-done. I refused and told him to at least give it a try. He finally did and his sales tripled and still he refused to make additional changes that would have made the presentation even better. Yet, I got many emails from him asking how he might improve the letter. So it goes...
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I've said this before. Most people only think they want a critique. What they really want, yet won't admit it, is for people to affirm that they've done a good job with what they've written. Everyone has a bit of that in them. I know I do. We want to feel that we've spent our time wisely. We want people to think we're clever. We don't want strangers taking pot shots at our children, our writing. I used to write a lot more critiques than I do these days. Recently I took an assignment from the main board to fix some writing. It was easy. All that was needed was a better explanation of a new twist on an old service.
      Yup.

      It's interesting.

      When just about anyone writes just about anything...

      ...they create an emotional attachment to it.

      It might totally sucks b@lls, but they're still in-love with it.

      Here's my curiosity:

      If you have something legit to sell, and your learning curve is a solid year of writing copy BEFORE you can pimp out your solution (product or service...)

      ...then it makes more sense to just make the proper investment and hire a copywriter.

      Now...

      If you simply don't have the cash to leverage,

      Well...

      I can understand why you'd want to do everything in your power to learn this stuff yourself.

      The problem is...

      This is so much more than just writing.

      And most people don't get that.

      You've got to have a frickin' PH.D in human nature to really craft copy that gets underneath your audience's skin and compels massive sales.

      That's not something you learn overnight.

      So while it's great to ask for a critique, what's the point if you can't execute the feedback?

      Likewise...

      If you believe in what you're trying to sell...

      Borrow the money for your investment.

      Get it out there.

      And learn how to write so you can keep the conversation going between you and your prospects.

      Mark Pescetti
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

        Yup.

        It's interesting.

        When just about anyone writes just about anything...

        ...they create an emotional attachment to it.

        It might totally sucks b@lls, but they're still in-love with it.

        Here's my curiosity:

        If you have something legit to sell, and your learning curve is a solid year of writing copy BEFORE you can pimp out your solution (product or service...)

        ...then it makes more sense to just make the proper investment and hire a copywriter.

        Now...

        If you simply don't have the cash to leverage,

        Well...

        I can understand why you'd want to do everything in your power to learn this stuff yourself.

        The problem is...

        This is so much more than just writing.

        And most people don't get that.

        You've got to have a frickin' PH.D in human nature to really craft copy that gets underneath your audience's skin and compels massive sales.

        That's not something you learn overnight.

        So while it's great to ask for a critique, what's the point if you can't execute the feedback?

        Likewise...

        If you believe in what you're trying to sell...

        Borrow the money for your investment.

        Get it out there.

        And learn how to write so you can keep the conversation going between you and your prospects.

        Mark Pescetti
        I agree. This ain't no secret but I ain't no copywriter. I can sometimes do a decent job at it but it's not my strong suit. When I do make it work it's only because of what you just mentioned, the human nature aspect.

        I've been studying people since I was a little boy and most often know what most folks are going to do next. Like most folks here I don't make a study of what the top guns do, though I can usually come up with a decent hook and get a few people to pull out their CCs.

        I was thinking about writing in general earlier. How is it that the most important aspect of the info product industry, along with the skill it takes to sell that info receives so little respect or curtesy or pay? It wasn't all that long ago that writers were actually looked up to. Now, to many, they're simply a necessary evil who get thrown a bone. Web designers, software people and SEO specialists all command far more respect and pay than all but the top tier folks calling themselves writers.

        Whining finished. Back to the regularly scheduled programming... :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author KingOfContentMarketing
          Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

          I was thinking about writing in general earlier. How is it that the most important aspect of the info product industry, along with the skill it takes to sell that info receives so little respect or curtesy or pay? It wasn't all that long ago that writers were actually looked up to. Now, to many, they're simply a necessary evil who get thrown a bone.
          What's that old joke? "There was an actress who was so dumb she slept with the writer."
          Signature
          Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
          - Jack Trout
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      • Profile picture of the author videolover7
        Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

        You've got to have a frickin' PH.D in human nature to really craft copy that gets underneath your audience's skin and compels massive sales.
        Nah, not really.

        An irresistible offer can overcome poor copy.

        VL
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        • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
          Originally Posted by videolover7 View Post

          Nah, not really.

          An irresistible offer can overcome poor copy.

          VL
          Seems like a bit of a paradox because

          an irresistible offer = good copy
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          • Profile picture of the author Pro @ctive Media
            Love this site & forum... Great stuff. As for what makes good (magnetic & appealing) copy; it's like poetry or interesting fiction. It either works & pulls you in for more... or it's tedious to read & quickly forgotten.
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          • Profile picture of the author videolover7
            Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

            Seems like a bit of a paradox because

            an irresistible offer = good copy
            No it doesn't.

            An irresistible offer = overwhelming perceived value.

            No special copy skills are needed to communicate an irresistible offer.

            For example: "I'll sell you a one-ounce gold coin for $100."

            Just target this offer to gold buyers and 100% of them will buy. Why? The offer is irresistible.

            VL
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            • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
              Originally Posted by videolover7 View Post

              No it doesn't.

              An irresistible offer = overwhelming perceived value.

              No special copy skills are needed to communicate an irresistible offer.

              For example: "I'll sell you a one-ounce gold coin for $100."

              Just target this offer to gold buyers and 100% of them will buy. Why? The offer is irresistible.

              VL
              Yeah, we all know those irresistible offers are just running rampant through life. Right now I'm going to pick up 10 pizzas with the works. Only a buck a piece. :rolleyes:
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              • Profile picture of the author videolover7
                Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

                Yeah, we all know those irresistible offers are just running rampant through life. Right now I'm going to pick up 10 pizzas with the works. Only a buck a piece. :rolleyes:
                The gold example makes a point. That's how an irresistible offer sounds to a prospect.

                VL
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            • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
              Originally Posted by videolover7 View Post

              No it doesn't.

              An irresistible offer = overwhelming perceived value.

              No special copy skills are needed to communicate an irresistible offer.

              For example: "I'll sell you a one-ounce gold coin for $100."

              Just target this offer to gold buyers and 100% of them will buy. Why? The offer is irresistible.

              VL
              Dude...

              This is so far off that it just boggles my mind.

              I've worked for clients who had absolutely products and services.

              For instance...

              I did a J.V. with a well-known day trader who created software that eliminated indicators.

              We had 4 years of successful real world trading.

              Tons of proof.

              And it took a LONG TIME to produce conversions.

              Pretty amazing considering it had a spectacular irresistible offer.

              "Just follow the lead of the software, set your stop loss and profitably trade like you're Marty McFly after he got back from the future."

              just because you have a REAL irresistible offer doesn't mean jack sh!t.

              You still need to know damn well what you're talking about, simplify it for the masses, acknowledge and overcome their objections and walk them through the incredible possibilities to drive a direct response.

              And you think just anyone can accomplish this?

              Yeah, right!

              Mark Pescetti

              P.S. You have to realize that if something sounds too good to be true, you're likely going to turn people off, rather than generate more conversions. You have to hook them emotionally, get them invested, make a compelling offer and communicate the consequences of walking away from your opportunity. In other words, too good to be true needs to be treated like an objection. $100 for a $1000 gold coin? That's not an irresistible offer, that's just a lazy, unrealistic example.
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              • Profile picture of the author videolover7
                Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

                Dude...

                This is so far off that it just boggles my mind.

                I've worked for clients who had absolutely products and services.

                For instance...

                I did a J.V. with a well-known day trader who created software that eliminated indicators.

                We had 4 years of successful real world trading.

                Tons of proof.

                And it took a LONG TIME to produce conversions.

                Pretty amazing considering it had a spectacular irresistible offer.

                "Just follow the lead of the software, set your stop loss and profitably trade like you're Marty McFly after he got back from the future."

                just because you have a REAL irresistible offer doesn't mean jack sh!t.

                You still need to know damn well what you're talking about, simplify it for the masses, acknowledge and overcome their objections and walk them through the incredible possibilities to drive a direct response.

                And you think just anyone can accomplish this?

                Yeah, right!

                Mark Pescetti
                A true, irresistible offer is blatantly obvious to a prospect.

                Perhaps when you've had one, you tried too hard in your copy.


                P.S. You have to realize that if something sounds too good to be true, you're likely going to turn people off, rather than generate more conversions. You have to hook them emotionally, get them invested, make a compelling offer and communicate the consequences of walking away from your opportunity. In other words, too good to be true needs to be treated like an objection. $100 for a $1000 gold coin? That's not an irresistible offer, that's just a lazy, unrealistic example.
                As I stated to travlinguy, the gold example makes a point. That's how an irresistible offer sounds to a prospect.

                If your offer doesn't sound like you're selling a $1622 coin for $100, it's not irresistible.

                VL
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                • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
                  Originally Posted by videolover7 View Post

                  A true, irresistible offer is blatantly obvious to a prospect.

                  Perhaps when you've had one, you tried too hard in your copy.

                  As I stated to travlinguy, the gold example makes a point. That's how an irresistible offer sounds to a prospect.

                  If your offer doesn't sound like you're selling a $1622 coin for $100, it's not irresistible.

                  VL
                  The gold example is ridiculous. Who the hell is going to sell a $1622 coin for $100? My point is that all offers, even supposedly "irresistible" offers need to be sold. Try coming up with something realistic if you want to be taken seriously.
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                  • Profile picture of the author videolover7
                    Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

                    The gold example is ridiculous. Who the hell is going to sell a $1622 coin for $100? My point is that all offers, even supposedly "irresistible" offers need to be sold. Try coming up with something realistic if you want to be taken seriously.
                    No it isn't... the gold example illustrates the point beautifully.

                    If your offer doesn't sound like you're selling a $1622 coin for $100, it's not irresistible.

                    VL
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              • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

                Dude...

                This is so far off that it just boggles my mind.

                I've worked for clients who had absolutely products and services.

                For instance...

                I did a J.V. with a well-known day trader who created software that eliminated indicators.

                We had 4 years of successful real world trading.

                Tons of proof.

                And it took a LONG TIME to produce conversions.

                Pretty amazing considering it had a spectacular irresistible offer.

                "Just follow the lead of the software, set your stop loss and profitably trade like you're Marty McFly after he got back from the future."

                just because you have a REAL irresistible offer doesn't mean jack sh!t.

                You still need to know damn well what you're talking about, simplify it for the masses, acknowledge and overcome their objections and walk them through the incredible possibilities to drive a direct response.

                And you think just anyone can accomplish this?

                Yeah, right!

                Mark Pescetti

                P.S. You have to realize that if something sounds too good to be true, you're likely going to turn people off, rather than generate more conversions. You have to hook them emotionally, get them invested, make a compelling offer and communicate the consequences of walking away from your opportunity. In other words, too good to be true needs to be treated like an objection. $100 for a $1000 gold coin? That's not an irresistible offer, that's just a lazy, unrealistic example.
                He's not off at all. Bang on the money. It starts with an irresistible offer. But I'd add something else - being on target.

                Copywriting is over-rated. If the offer is a beauty and you're pitching to the right crowd...you could write the page in Pidgin English and it would still work.

                "Being on target is much more important than being facile with words" - Gary Halbert
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                • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                  Here's a couple of guys who know a thing or two on the subject...

                  at least more than me and I suspect all others here too...

                  Best,
                  Ewen

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                • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
                  Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

                  He's not off at all. Bang on the money. It starts with an irresistible offer. But I'd add something else - being on target.

                  Copywriting is over-rated. If the offer is a beauty and you're pitching to the right crowd...you could write the page in Pidgin English and it would still work.

                  "Being on target is much more important than being facile with words" - Gary Halbert
                  Oy.

                  No, Mal, he is off target.

                  Can you oversell and essentially c@ck-block your audience from realizing how mind-blowing your offer is?

                  Absolutely!

                  But whipping out a Gary Halbert quote, while a definitely true statement, doesn't override the FACT that most irresistible offers need copy that communicates WHY and HOW what you're selling is so spectacular.

                  Again...

                  We live in a society; a reality where all the often unsubstantiated hype created by copywriters (especially in the last 10 years) resulted in a more cynical collective buying audience than at any other time in commerce history.

                  The $100 one-ounce gold coin sounding irresistible offer, even if it was 100% true, no strings attached, is going to be met with a ridiculous amount of skepticism...

                  ...which by the way is one of the most notorious objections for NOT buying something.

                  And how do you overcome objections, Mr. Nazi?

                  Copy, right?

                  Disagreeing with me and saying an irresistible offer, like the one describe by DVDlover, er, videolover, will sell like hotcakes is just plain ignorant.

                  Why?

                  Because most irresistible offers do need to be explained and quantified - so the audience gets it.

                  I'd go so far as to say that people would be downright stupid if they believed the gold coin example in a real offer.

                  That being said...

                  Do you want your offers to always sound like they're irresistible?

                  Sure.

                  But even Gary Halbert would have had to dig down deep to sell a $100 gold one-ounce coin to today's rightfully cynical marketplace.

                  Because that kind of an irresistible offer just comes across as a plain old hustle...

                  ...more so if the offer is coming from an unknown commodity - whether it's targeting the right audience or not.

                  Mark Pescetti

                  P.S. I've said here a number of times here on this forum that honesty and sincerity sells. To me, that's the kind of simplicity that would back up an irresistible offer nicely, while also creating a long-term rapport with the audience. But this whole conversation is totally subjective. Example: There are people who can genuinely help cancer patients heal, without destroying their bodies with poison, and have amazing track records for getting mind-blowing results. An irresistible offer? You'd think. But in reality, most cancer sufferers, even in the alternative mindset, still have dogma floating around in their heads that prevent them from trusting these claims... and choose to NOT take action.

                  So yes...

                  Too good to be true doesn't mean something will sell as a rule.

                  Right audience, right message... or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    You shouldn't ask for a critique of your copy until you have seriously studied the great copywriting and marketing books listed in the permanent thread at the top of this forum and spent a lot of time writing copy.

    Before you complete these important tasks, you are really wasting everyone's time. The serious marketers and copywriters on this forum don't have time to explain the basics to you when you can study them first.

    When you understand and apply the fundamentals, then you can ask for a critique to get the nuances and golden nuggets of copywriting you need to take your copy to the next level.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Marketeer
    The closest real life example to this irresistible $100 coin offer I can think of is when Jay Abraham advised a big boy coin seller to do a promotion offering special edition silver coins at cost price.

    They'd make a loss to start with but would gain around 20,000 new customers to add to their list. He knew the value of lists.

    Naturally the coin company was very sceptical thinking, "How on earth could we profit from this?"

    Jay recommended that a few months down the line they should roll out another special offer promotion but this time they'd make a profit.

    As he was one of the most respected marketers at the time, they trusted Jay's advice.

    They rolled with the idea and guess what?

    After the second promotion, they profited in the region of several million dollars and quite possibly more.

    That's the benefit of having a long term strategy and the back end is a very important part of the sales funnel.

    But, to put the high amount of natural scepticism surrounding an irresistible offer at ease, you still need to address the objections and communicate the value you're offering...

    EVEN in an irresistible offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Folks... Can we stick to the topic, please, and leave the insults out?


    Paul
    Signature
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    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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