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How To Make Tons Of Money As A Copywriter... Even If You Have Zero Experience

by Michael Lee
21 replies
Ok, so you've studied all the copywriting books and courses, as well as the sales pages of top converting products.

You're ready to make money as a copywriter, but how would you start if you don't have any experience to show for it?

My recommendation is to surf the web and find websites with poor copy. And when I say "poor," I mean very short sales letters that are obviously written by someone who doesn't know a bit of copywriting. And there are plenty of them online.

What you do is contact the marketer, then propose that you will at least double their sales, or they don't have to pay. This is irresistible since they have nothing to lose, and everything to gain if you make their sites convert.

And you don't even need to be a very experienced copywriter to improve their copy. In fact, there are plenty of badly-written sales pages all around the web; and if you just add or tweak a few words based on sound copywriting principles, you could dramatically improve their conversions!

If you did a killer job, the better. But even if you just did a mediocre job, you could still double their sales since they are so badly-written.

But how will you know they're not cheating you by saying their conversions didn't improve (even though it did)? In my experience, most people are honest. You could occasionally run into a few bad apples, but you won't have any problem most of the time.

Now you could get the portfolio and testimonials you need to take it to the next level.

Cheers,
Michael
#career #copywriter #jumpstart
  • Profile picture of the author Woody C
    So are you basically working for free? How do you make a ton of money this way? What kind of fees are you recommending?

    If they aren't a big seller to begin with then they probably don't have much money to offer. Do you work for a small fee and commissions? Please explain a little more.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I think you have a great prospecting strategy in scouring the Web looking for subpar sales copy, but you've lost me in suggesting that I should offer a 'no pay' option if the client doesn't improve conversions.

    What if the site is only getting a few visitors a day, or month even? I'm not going to hang my services out there on 'spec' hoping that a particular promoter has it together enough to make a sale even with the BEST copy.

    Better that freelancers get good at recognizing their talents and charging for them up front.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      A better way is to find a Clickbank sales letter that has decent gravity but is poorly written. Rewrite it yourself and you can make some money while you learn.

      Michel Fortin has a good blog post about this -- I can't find it right now. If someone has the link handy, maybe they could post it...
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      • Profile picture of the author Woody C
        Originally Posted by KenStrong View Post

        A better way is to find a Clickbank sales letter that has decent gravity but is poorly written. Rewrite it yourself and you can make some money while you learn.

        Michel Fortin has a good blog post about this -- I can't find it right now. If someone has the link handy, maybe they could post it...
        Would you contact the vendor/author and offer a free critique, then offer to re-write it for fee? I have been looking into doing this for a Clickbank product. If I do contact them, I will let everyone know how it goes.

        Also, this is the Michel Fortin blog post that was recommend to me in another post. I am not sure if it is the one you were thinking of, but you can look and see.

        http://www.michelfortin.com/no-produ...ypass-surgery/
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        • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
          Originally Posted by maverickwec View Post

          Would you contact the vendor/author and offer a free critique, then offer to re-write it for fee? I have been looking into doing this for a Clickbank product. If I do contact them, I will let everyone know how it goes.
          No, I was talking about rewriting it yourself first without telling the vendor -- have your order buttons link directly to the CB order page (Fortin talks about how to do that in his post) using your affiliate link... that way you make some money for your work.

          Then if you get really good conversions, you can always contact the vendor and offer to sell them the letter if you want.

          Also, this is the Michel Fortin blog post that was recommend to me in another post. I am not sure if it is the one you were thinking of, but you can look and see.

          http://www.michelfortin.com/no-produ...ypass-surgery/
          Yup, that's the one, thanks!
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          • Profile picture of the author Harlan
            Yup!

            Write for free.

            Not.

            Come on guys.

            There's boatloads of money out there.

            If you know what you're doing.

            Stop giving away your work.
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            Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
            Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
            http://overnight-copy.com
            Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
            Learn how to build a Super Site Without SEO http://supersiteformula.com

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            • Profile picture of the author Noel2010
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              Yup!

              Write for free.

              Not.

              Come on guys.

              There's boatloads of money out there.

              If you know what you're doing.

              Stop giving away your work.
              Do you mean I can write and make "boatloads of money"?

              I would love to do that, Harlan.
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Lee
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              Yup!

              Write for free.

              Not.

              Come on guys.

              There's boatloads of money out there.

              If you know what you're doing.

              Stop giving away your work.

              It's no problem if they have the reputation you have, Harlan. But what if they're just starting out, and no one is willing to risk paying them because they don't have any experience? They have to start with something at least.

              A book I read said that "People with the abundant mind prefer to get paid based on results, not on time spent to do the work." If they can't improve conversions, they don't deserve the payment anyway. But at least, they get to practice and improve upon their skills.
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              (Free) How To SLEEP Your Way To Unstoppable Riches & Success | (Free) 1 Weird Trick To Create Miracles | 100+ Free Self-Help Books | "I was shocked when your site converted at 5.1%!" - 20DayPersuasion Affiliate
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              • Profile picture of the author Harlan
                Originally Posted by Michael Lee View Post

                It's no problem if they have the reputation you have, Harlan. But what if they're just starting out, and no one is willing to risk paying them because they don't have any experience? They have to start with something at least.
                Oh stop the whining please.

                I didn't start out with a reputation.

                I created one.

                I didn't have samples.

                I didn't have testimonials.

                But I knew NLP and knew how to sell.

                That's how I got the big bucks.

                As a rookie I pulled in over $325,000.

                So let's cut to the chase - if I can do it. Anyone can.

                Peace.
                Signature

                Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
                Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
                http://overnight-copy.com
                Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
                Learn how to build a Super Site Without SEO http://supersiteformula.com

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                • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
                  Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                  Oh stop the whining please.

                  I didn't start out with a reputation.

                  I created one.

                  I didn't have samples.

                  I didn't have testimonials.

                  But I knew NLP and knew how to sell.

                  That's how I got the big bucks.

                  As a rookie I pulled in over $325,000.

                  So let's cut to the chase - if I can do it. Anyone can.

                  Peace.
                  Liar. ;-)

                  Thanks for responding to my last post.

                  And for God's sake get a better photo up.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Harlan
                    Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

                    Liar. ;-)

                    Thanks for responding to my last post.

                    And for God's sake get a better photo up.
                    Correct about the photo.

                    And thanks for the plug.

                    Even a newbie can triple his earnings.

                    Worked for Chris Haddad.

                    Worked for Tina Lorenz - who quadrupled her earnings.

                    Worked for Mike Morgan.

                    Worked for Dr Mike (who as a rookie pulled in a 50K job)

                    Worked for Leah Carson.

                    Works pretty much for anyone who follows the system.

                    Which I can't mention on WF.

                    Shhhh.
                    Signature

                    Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
                    Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
                    http://overnight-copy.com
                    Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
                    Learn how to build a Super Site Without SEO http://supersiteformula.com

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                    • Profile picture of the author Tekstar
                      Great Harlan, way to use curiosity to get us to want more. Ok I'll bite. What system or product do you suggest that I can use or follow to make that all happen for a newb starting out. PM me if you really can't say it here.

                      Thanks,

                      -Bob
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
                Originally Posted by Michael Lee View Post

                It's no problem if they have the reputation you have, Harlan. But what if they're just starting out, and no one is willing to risk paying them because they don't have any experience? They have to start with something at least.

                A book I read said that "People with the abundant mind prefer to get paid based on results, not on time spent to do the work." If they can't improve conversions, they don't deserve the payment anyway. But at least, they get to practice and improve upon their skills.
                Reputation means nothing. Everyone starts with zero reputation.

                It's proving to the client the value that you can deliver to their business. Every client is different in what they value, so talk to them and find out what matters most -- it's not always making the max money from the campaign, although no client would ever turn that down.

                Maybe it's to stop losing money on their marketing. Or to free them up from trying to write their own marketing and watching it crash and burn a hole in their bank account.

                People don't value free. Look at how many free reports, ebooks, etc. you already have on your computer. Odds are, you haven't looked at most of it (I sure haven't).

                My first professional client paid me $150 to write his online sales letter for his business. He was nice enough to introduce me to my wife 7 years ago, so he got a big discounted deal when he needed my help. In return, he referred a bunch of full-price paying clients to me after that.

                These days, I charge a lot more and my clients gladly pay it for my expertise. You don't get to drive a brand new Lexus for free. Everybody pays one way or another.

                Look, you still have your own bills to pay... mortgage, car, electric, whatever. So tell people that working for free doesn't pay your bills. In 3 years, I've yet to have anyone want to argue with me over that one.

                Good luck,

                Mike
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                Kickstart Your Copywriting Business: How To Get Loads of New Clients FAST!

                Kick-A$$ Eight-Figure Producing Copywriting Gun For Hire | Marketing & Copywriting Blog
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Lee
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I think you have a great prospecting strategy in scouring the Web looking for subpar sales copy, but you've lost me in suggesting that I should offer a 'no pay' option if the client doesn't improve conversions.

      What if the site is only getting a few visitors a day, or month even? I'm not going to hang my services out there on 'spec' hoping that a particular promoter has it together enough to make a sale even with the BEST copy.

      Better that freelancers get good at recognizing their talents and charging for them up front.

      You have a point there. I think it would be best to do some research on the site's traffic before sending your proposal.
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      (Free) How To SLEEP Your Way To Unstoppable Riches & Success | (Free) 1 Weird Trick To Create Miracles | 100+ Free Self-Help Books | "I was shocked when your site converted at 5.1%!" - 20DayPersuasion Affiliate
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    • Profile picture of the author authork
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I think you have a great prospecting strategy in scouring the Web looking for subpar sales copy, but you've lost me in suggesting that I should offer a 'no pay' option if the client doesn't improve conversions.

      What if the site is only getting a few visitors a day, or month even? I'm not going to hang my services out there on 'spec' hoping that a particular promoter has it together enough to make a sale even with the BEST copy.

      Better that freelancers get good at recognizing their talents and charging for them up front.
      The same thought came up for me when I read the initial post. The people behind this poor copy may not have any idea how to market their product! On the idea of offering your services for free, I always like what Dan Kennedy says...He prefers "income" to "if"come.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Lee
    Originally Posted by maverickwec View Post

    So are you basically working for free? How do you make a ton of money this way? What kind of fees are you recommending?

    If they aren't a big seller to begin with then they probably don't have much money to offer. Do you work for a small fee and commissions? Please explain a little more.

    No, I'm not doing this myself. I just suddenly thought of it while playing with my son.

    And no, you're not working for free if you believe in your skills. Yeah, it's a bit of a gamble; but as long as you apply the usual copywriting principles, the scales will tip in your favor.

    If they aren't big sellers, but your revisions boosted their earnings, they can pay you from their earnings.

    For the fee, there's no hard and fast rules. You can either ask for a fixed fee or a percentage of their sales.
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    (Free) How To SLEEP Your Way To Unstoppable Riches & Success | (Free) 1 Weird Trick To Create Miracles | 100+ Free Self-Help Books | "I was shocked when your site converted at 5.1%!" - 20DayPersuasion Affiliate
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  • Profile picture of the author Bigsofty
    The problem with approaching anyone with a subpar site and offering to boost their conversions is that they probably don't have any smarts on other little details, such as driving traffic...


    B.
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    This man is living his dream. Are you...?
    www.copywriter-ac.com

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    • Profile picture of the author Aronya
      If you guys don't mind a newbie chiming in, I'd like to make a comment or two.

      I can see this argument from both sides. When you have no track record, and nothing to back up your claim that you can write a better (read: converting) sales letter, it can be a bit of a daunting task finding someone to take a chance on you & pay money to be your guinea pig. Consequently, doing the work on spec is an easier sale, especially in your mind.

      On the other hand, learning to charge for your services from the beginning may well be the best long-term strategy, since it means you will always be paid. But getting started this way is likely to be difficult.

      Poorly written web pages probably belong to people who aren't making any money with them, and getting those people to pay for services is going to be tough. Someone who has a fairly well-written page that DOES make money is likely to be hard to convince.

      I think the best route to go for a new person might just be right down the middle. Why not look for sites that have a little something going for them - where the copy is decent, but not great - and target those people? As long as they have some traffic, they're probably making SOME money. I would expect those folks to be in a position to understand that they don't know it all, yet, and might be open to discussing your proposal.

      Just my 2cts.

      I DO have a question that was touched on in the OP: How do you ensure payment? Unless you are charging a flat fee, how can you verify your copy's performance? If you'd prefer I take this question to another thread, let me know.

      Thanks,
      Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author pmg2712
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    • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
      As someone that is looking for sales copy for a new launch, I find this conversation very interesting.
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