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I'll Pay You $2,000 To Write Me This Sales Letter...

by mattlloyd
61 replies
Hello to all Warrior copywriters...

I'm looking for a copy writer with experience in Biz Op, to write me a sales letter for a live event I'm doing in California, 90 days from now... I'm offering $2000 (half upfront, half upon delivery).

Let me start out by saying I'm serious about this- and am not looking to waste anyone's time... I will be hiring someone for this hopefully in the next 7 days.

I'll tell you a little about the event, and, if you're interested, let me know...

The theme of this event will be "if you lost you current online business, and had to start all over again, knowing what you know now, how would you build a one million dollar business as quickly as possible?"

I'll have about 12 speakers. Every single one of them must have sold a million online personally. No phonies. And, there will likely be a prize for the best speaker voted by the crowd...eg. some cash.

I'll have some well known speakers from the make money niche...but, I'm also trying to find speakers outside of the biz op niche, so the audience gets to see that this stuff works in a wide variety of niches.

This will be my 2nd event... a follow up to my first event - which you can see the sales letter for here: (Online Income Revolution With Matt Lloyd And Daegan Smith...). By the way, that was a sales letter I did myself... it was a last minute rush-job, but, we made our numbers - 50 seats, 1k each.

This time, I'll be a lot more organized, and I'd like a much better sales letter.

The price point will be a lot more (like $5000) since the content will be at a much higher level...

I'm looking for a copywriter who has experience in biz op, can show me some relevant pieces of your work (if you've done letters for events like this, please tell me), and you have a track record of delivering results.

Obviously for 2k, I'm not going to get the best of the best... but, it should get me something half decent.

On a side note- I'm moving into direct mail in a big way very soon (this month) - and I'd rather have a regular copy writer on my team, instead of having to go find someone new every time.

Anyway, if you're interested, can meet the requirements, and can show me some samples, please message me ... I'll usually get back to you within 24 hours.

If you can show me some samples first, that would be great, and then we can talk on the phone, and I'll tell you more of the specifics...thanks.

Matt
#letter #pay #sales #write
  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    This is who you need, but he might already be booked for months in advance Dangerously Effective Direct Response Marketing

    I don't think that's his main site anymore but the contact details at the bottom should work.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Hello Matt

      The best person I can think of who can and will help you to hit your target with ease is...

      Mark Pescetti. Although... truth be told, I think you might need to offer him more than this.

      I do believe you two would get along like a house on fire.

      Contact him, you won't regret it.

      Here is how to get hold of him...

      View Profile: Mark Pescetti

      http://markpescetti.com/

      Good luck with your launch Matt!

      Warmest regards,


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
    So you want a letter that charges $5000 but want to pay someone $2000 to create the message? I'm not saying you can't find anyone for that price, but I think it will be hard to find someone with the experience and chops required to sell at that high a ticket who also doesn't charge 5x what you're looking to spend, at a minimum. I know I wouldn't, but good luck with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Matt,

      I have an idea if your budget is modest for copywriting.

      Select your copywriter and pay them the agreed upon fee.

      Then as a first task, have the copywriter craft a "Second Helpings" letter and mail it to your previous attendees. Charge 75% off, so basically $1250/each.

      Then split the money with the copywriter, whatever's fair.

      If you did a good job delivering the goods the first time around, you should do well.

      You'll get a higher calibre copywriter, one who has some skin in the game, and get some more money to fund marketing & hard costs.

      - Rick Duris
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
        Originally Posted by mattlloyd View Post

        Ray, Colin, I understand where you two are coming from... offering to pay $2,000, to sell a 5K event.

        But, you only know half the story. Most of the marketing for this event, will actually be offering it as a bonus for something else... that's why I told people to contact me directly, and I'd give full details.
        I don't see how the story enters into it - I'm just saying that you are willing to hire someone to improve conversions and get a higher price point, but you are trying to hire someone who can't demand 50% of one sale for their work?

        I feel like you are shooting yourself in the foot is all. The budget is the budget and I understand. But you won't get a gourmet chef to cook you a gourmet meal if you are going to have to pay fry-cook rates. I am not saying you can't get someone to take the job, just saying it will be hard to get quality and experience to match what you want to sell.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Colin picked the words right out of my mouth!

    But how can you pay a copywriter $2000 to sell a
    $5000 product. That's tantamount to an insult
    really.

    So you sell one seat and you are in profit. What
    about the copywriter? Shouldn't s/he be tasting some
    of your success as well?

    I can understand your (possible) thinking that you did
    it for yourself before so you don't really need a copywriter.

    Another Warrior copywriter was just paid $10,000 for a REWRITE
    for a sales letter that sells at a much lower price point. So you
    really need to up your game.

    Of course your PM box might be full with offers right now, but
    in making an offer they are also admitting that they don't
    qualify to write this kind of copy OR are selling themselves
    short.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author mattlloyd
      Ray, Colin, I understand where you two are coming from... offering to pay $2,000, to sell a 5K event.

      But, you only know half the story. Most of the marketing for this event, will actually be offering it as a bonus for something else... that's why I told people to contact me directly, and I'd give full details.
      Signature
      Start your own info-marketing business, and scale from $0 to over $81K in under 12 months. Free webinar shows you EXACTLY what I did, and all my private numbers:

      https://WebinarConferenceMeetings.com/startyourowninfomarketingbusiness
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by mattlloyd View Post

        Ray, Colin, I understand where you two are coming from... offering to pay $2,000, to sell a 5K event.

        But, you only know half the story. Most of the marketing for this event, will actually be offering it as a bonus for something else... that's why I told people to contact me directly, and I'd give full details.
        Matt,

        You gave the explanation already:

        Obviously for 2k, I'm not going to get the best of the best... but, it should get me something half decent.
        BTW, I go waay back with Daegan. I wrote his first ever
        online sales letter and many more after that. So I know
        that you are in good company.

        -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    My snarky reply to members of the forum.

    I think this is a great opportunity. But before I tell you why, a little history lesson.

    A few months ago a guy came to the forum with a 10,000 buck reward to beat his control.

    Read the thread. The knee jerk reaction from some of the "NAME" copywriters, and I use that term loosely was...

    What a joke. What a rip off. What nonsense. The smaller fish quietly responded and took on the challenge, then one of the Big dudes...decided he was in and then everyone was in...and a lot of bragging about who was going to win.

    Time went by. Apparently too much time, even for the eventual winner, an unknown, who was one of the loudest critics of the guy giving away 10 grand...now, after cashing his check...he's best buds. SEE?

    Other big name braggarts dropped out, maybe they knew they weren't in the running. This is how it went down.

    And some guy, an unknown has 10 grand in his bank account, AND a promotion to show people, to attract other clients and to build his career off of.

    My big issue with this forum is there are a handful of know it alls and big mouths whose first knee jerk reaction is to start to bad mouth a poster like this.

    Some of these guys, have been, what, 5 years of copywriting under their belt and have built a reputation for their WSOs?????

    Anyhow, this is a GREAT opportunity for those of you who lurk, who want to get started, who are afraid of being bashed by the critics here, and this is an offer made to you.

    The guy sez he isn't after the A listers, by the way, NONE of who post here but on a very rare occasion...

    YOU who are looking to break in, and that is MOST of the readers here, I encourage you to take a shot.

    NOW, the thing I'm not sure about is the OP's experience requirements, he's gonna be hard pressed for that price to get what he wants, especially on such a short time frame.

    I encourage him to at least take a look at some of the unknowns and up and commers, you might get surprised. Of course, you don't want to waste your time...but with your background and experience a quick glance can tell if you some noob has the chops you may be looking for.

    IF you are the experience person with the crds he wants...this could lead to an ongoing relationship, which is what the Big Dudes here get, or so they say...and are on retainer or a monthly contract.

    Is 2 grand too small for an experienced copywriter? IF you are experienced in Biz-Op and have a proven template, his first work and scores of other Biz-Op seminars to "swipe" from, this is a piece of cake half day project for you, or should be.

    So, Matt, please consider at least looking at some Newbs SPEC work, if they can write fast, in the next few days...and at least give them a chance at very little expenditure of your time...
    and

    to YOU established copywriters, who have worked with untold numbers of IMers and produced millions with your copy...

    why do you waste your time even responding to these threads?

    Why is your knee jerk reaction Are you serious cheapAss? We be big bux copywriters here.

    It is a part of this forum that discourages, is negative and in my opinion uncalled for...we KNOW you make the big bux...let's give some hope to those who are seeking a career or an opportunity...

    And Matt has one., IF he'll maybe compromise a little on his requirements...

    But, hey, let's ask Sean the skeptic about opportunity...now that he has some bux in his pocket, maybe his attitude has change a little.

    Matt, give some newbs a chance and thanks for giving the forum another opportunity...to either take or leave...

    gjabiz




    Originally Posted by mattlloyd View Post

    Hello to all Warrior copywriters...

    I'm looking for a copy writer with experience in Biz Op, to write me a sales letter for a live event I'm doing in California, 90 days from now... I'm offering $2000 (half upfront, half upon delivery).

    Let me start out by saying I'm serious about this- and am not looking to waste anyone's time... I will be hiring someone for this hopefully in the next 7 days.

    I'll tell you a little about the event, and, if you're interested, let me know...

    The theme of this event will be "if you lost you current online business, and had to start all over again, knowing what you know now, how would you build a one million dollar business as quickly as possible?"

    I'll have about 12 speakers. Every single one of them must have sold a million online personally. No phonies. And, there will likely be a prize for the best speaker voted by the crowd...eg. some cash.

    I'll have some well known speakers from the make money niche...but, I'm also trying to find speakers outside of the biz op niche, so the audience gets to see that this stuff works in a wide variety of niches.

    This will be my 2nd event... a follow up to my first event - which you can see the sales letter for here: (Online Income Revolution With Matt Lloyd And Daegan Smith...). By the way, that was a sales letter I did myself... it was a last minute rush-job, but, we made our numbers - 50 seats, 1k each.

    This time, I'll be a lot more organized, and I'd like a much better sales letter.

    The price point will be a lot more (like $5000) since the content will be at a much higher level...

    I'm looking for a copywriter who has experience in biz op, can show me some relevant pieces of your work (if you've done letters for events like this, please tell me), and you have a track record of delivering results.

    Obviously for 2k, I'm not going to get the best of the best... but, it should get me something half decent.

    On a side note- I'm moving into direct mail in a big way very soon (this month) - and I'd rather have a regular copy writer on my team, instead of having to go find someone new every time.

    Anyway, if you're interested, can meet the requirements, and can show me some samples, please message me ... I'll usually get back to you within 24 hours.

    If you can show me some samples first, that would be great, and then we can talk on the phone, and I'll tell you more of the specifics...thanks.

    Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    gjabiz hit the nail on the head with his post when he wrote...

    "Is 2 grand too small for an experienced copywriter? IF you are experienced in Biz-Op and have a proven template, his first work and scores of other Biz-Op seminars to "swipe" from, this is a piece of cake half day project for you, or should be. "

    I've been writing biz opp letters almost exclusively for the last year... and it's getting to the point where i can write one in my sleep. and this is copy for some of the biggest and most well-known biz opp marketers online.

    the key is, once you get good at writing these letters and have a proven swipe file to model after, it should take almost no time to bust out a proven winner.

    I've written letters that took me an hour or two and have gone on to make a lot of money. the client didn't care how long it took, they just wanted the end-result.

    so, if a copywriter has an hour or two and makes 2 grand... that's not a bad half-day's work. more than most doctors, surgeons, lawyers, etc... make per hour.

    so yes, some of the good copywriters won't touch this, others will see it for what it is, a chance to make $1,000 an hour... which isn't bad at all.
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    MILLION Dollar Copywriter Offering Written Sales Letter or VSL Script Worth $5,000 - Just $500!
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  • Profile picture of the author AABL
    Originally Posted by mattlloyd View Post

    Hello to all Warrior copywriters...

    I'm looking for a copy writer with experience in Biz Op, to write me a sales letter for a live event I'm doing in California, 90 days from now... I'm offering $2000 (half upfront, half upon delivery).

    Let me start out by saying I'm serious about this- and am not looking to waste anyone's time... I will be hiring someone for this hopefully in the next 7 days.

    I'll tell you a little about the event, and, if you're interested, let me know...

    The theme of this event will be "if you lost you current online business, and had to start all over again, knowing what you know now, how would you build a one million dollar business as quickly as possible?"

    I'll have about 12 speakers. Every single one of them must have sold a million online personally. No phonies. And, there will likely be a prize for the best speaker voted by the crowd...eg. some cash.

    I'll have some well known speakers from the make money niche...but, I'm also trying to find speakers outside of the biz op niche, so the audience gets to see that this stuff works in a wide variety of niches.

    This will be my 2nd event... a follow up to my first event - which you can see the sales letter for here: (Online Income Revolution With Matt Lloyd And Daegan Smith...). By the way, that was a sales letter I did myself... it was a last minute rush-job, but, we made our numbers - 50 seats, 1k each.

    This time, I'll be a lot more organized, and I'd like a much better sales letter.

    The price point will be a lot more (like $5000) since the content will be at a much higher level...

    I'm looking for a copywriter who has experience in biz op, can show me some relevant pieces of your work (if you've done letters for events like this, please tell me), and you have a track record of delivering results.

    Obviously for 2k, I'm not going to get the best of the best... but, it should get me something half decent.

    On a side note- I'm moving into direct mail in a big way very soon (this month) - and I'd rather have a regular copy writer on my team, instead of having to go find someone new every time.

    Anyway, if you're interested, can meet the requirements, and can show me some samples, please message me ... I'll usually get back to you within 24 hours.

    If you can show me some samples first, that would be great, and then we can talk on the phone, and I'll tell you more of the specifics...thanks.

    Matt
    Hi, let me know if you're still looking for a persuasive sales letter written and I'll pass you over my phone number (I'm based in the UK btw).

    Sample freshlistbank(dot)com (Private Membership Site).

    I try not to sound too sales pitchy (turns readers off) though while at the same time playing on their emotional hot buttons and generating the action/response you expect your readers to take. It's no good firing traffic at a site with a lousy conversion rate. My job as your personal freelance copywriter is to convert browsers into buyers.

    If I'm the sort of thing you're looking for, let's talk.

    Thanks,
    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      My snarky reply to members of the forum.
      I'm glad you labeled it as snarky.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      My big issue with this forum is there are a handful of know it alls and big mouths whose first knee jerk reaction is to start to bad mouth a poster like this.
      I didn't see any badmouthing, did you? I think it's sound advice to be wary of the experience of a writer who wants to take less in payment than what an affiliate would get.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      Some of these guys, have been, what, 5 years of copywriting under their belt and have built a reputation for their WSOs?????
      Some of us have reputations far away from this forum too.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      The guy sez he isn't after the A listers, by the way, NONE of who post here but on a very rare occasion...
      There's an obvious reason for that.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      NOW, the thing I'm not sure about is the OP's experience requirements, he's gonna be hard pressed for that price to get what he wants, especially on such a short time frame.
      Agreed.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      I encourage him to at least take a look at some of the unknowns and up and commers, you might get surprised. Of course, you don't want to waste your time...but with your background and experience a quick glance can tell if you some noob has the chops you may be looking for.
      My advice would be to just write it again yourself. If you already did well once, you are at the level of an up-and comer, except you already have proof of results. You may be better off hiring a better copywriter to do an in-depth review, then do recommended rewrites. That'll probably be even cheaper, and I am almost positive you'll get a better result. But by all means, take a chance on a noob if you want to.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      Is 2 grand too small for an experienced copywriter? IF you are experienced in Biz-Op and have a proven template, his first work and scores of other Biz-Op seminars to "swipe" from, this is a piece of cake half day project for you, or should be.
      See, you're already saying that any person you hire at that price is going to cut a corner and go to a template vs. actually doing full work custom for this deal. That's EXACTLY why I'm telling him to be careful at that price point, because that's what you'll get at best is a gussied up template. At worst, you'll get the epic flailings of the inexperienced trying to oversell your high-ticket offer.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      to YOU established copywriters, who have worked with untold numbers of IMers and produced millions with your copy...

      why do you waste your time even responding to these threads?
      I thought it was to give advice.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      Why is your knee jerk reaction Are you serious cheapAss? We be big bux copywriters here.
      Did I say that? Did anyone? It sounds like you are complaining about something you saw happen elsewhere. I didn't see what you describe happening in this thread.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      It is a part of this forum that discourages, is negative and in my opinion uncalled for...we KNOW you make the big bux...let's give some hope to those who are seeking a career or an opportunity...
      Here's some advice for any up and coming copywriter who may be reading this. Don't take an offer to write a sales letter for less than what an affiliate would make promoting the same offer. Copy is worth more than that, especially if you're good. Hold out for more. It's vastly better for your career to get paid a fair price than to do work for cheap to create relationships that are anchoring you at below your worth.

      Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      I've written letters that took me an hour or two and have gone on to make a lot of money. the client didn't care how long it took, they just wanted the end-result.
      If you think you can do a good job selling a $5K per ticket item with an hour's work and you want to charge $2K for it, go to town. I'd charge more because even with a template, I think it takes more work than that to ensure good conversions on high-ticket items.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      so yes, some of the good copywriters won't touch this, others will see it for what it is, a chance to make $1,000 an hour... which isn't bad at all.
      Right, and if you're spending only 2 hours on it, who is getting the better of whom? It sounds like you're defending the low price of the offer because some copywriter is willing and able to churn out low-effort to match the value.

      I have a template. I could do this project in an hour if I just Mad Libs my template. But I won't. Because it's not the best job I could do. And I can't HELP but do my best work.

      So if I know I'm going to go bananas and spend 10+ hours across 3 days to do the research, profiling, and message development it takes to sell the **** out of this $5K per ticket event, I'm going to charge more. I won't do it for less because my experience says I CAN'T do it for less.

      But please, by all means, take the job. Someone. Go for it. I'm not trying to pontificate or be on my high-horse - I'm just offering the benefit of my experience as a writer, to both writers and copy buyers.

      But sometimes I don't want to do that, because when I try to offer a realistic perspective, I get responses like this that chastise people like me for not being cheerleaders or "take a chance!" kind of guys.
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      • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
        Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post



        . I'm not trying to pontificate or be on my high-horse -

        .
        Yea, I think you are.

        gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author Smalls91
    Check your PMs

    Originally Posted by mattlloyd View Post

    Hello to all Warrior copywriters...

    I'm looking for a copy writer with experience in Biz Op, to write me a sales letter for a live event I'm doing in California, 90 days from now... I'm offering $2000 (half upfront, half upon delivery).

    Let me start out by saying I'm serious about this- and am not looking to waste anyone's time... I will be hiring someone for this hopefully in the next 7 days.

    I'll tell you a little about the event, and, if you're interested, let me know...

    The theme of this event will be "if you lost you current online business, and had to start all over again, knowing what you know now, how would you build a one million dollar business as quickly as possible?"

    I'll have about 12 speakers. Every single one of them must have sold a million online personally. No phonies. And, there will likely be a prize for the best speaker voted by the crowd...eg. some cash.

    I'll have some well known speakers from the make money niche...but, I'm also trying to find speakers outside of the biz op niche, so the audience gets to see that this stuff works in a wide variety of niches.

    This will be my 2nd event... a follow up to my first event - which you can see the sales letter for here: (Online Income Revolution With Matt Lloyd And Daegan Smith...). By the way, that was a sales letter I did myself... it was a last minute rush-job, but, we made our numbers - 50 seats, 1k each.

    This time, I'll be a lot more organized, and I'd like a much better sales letter.

    The price point will be a lot more (like $5000) since the content will be at a much higher level...

    I'm looking for a copywriter who has experience in biz op, can show me some relevant pieces of your work (if you've done letters for events like this, please tell me), and you have a track record of delivering results.

    Obviously for 2k, I'm not going to get the best of the best... but, it should get me something half decent.

    On a side note- I'm moving into direct mail in a big way very soon (this month) - and I'd rather have a regular copy writer on my team, instead of having to go find someone new every time.

    Anyway, if you're interested, can meet the requirements, and can show me some samples, please message me ... I'll usually get back to you within 24 hours.

    If you can show me some samples first, that would be great, and then we can talk on the phone, and I'll tell you more of the specifics...thanks.

    Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Hey Matt!

    I read little of your previous sales letter and listened a bit to your audio (at the top of the letter.)

    It's feels uncooked.

    It doesn't represent you the way you're expressing who you are and what you've accomplished.

    After all...

    Your biggest selling point is telling people they could follow your lead and wildly increase their profits... just like you.

    A science of success model needs to express how easy it is to duplicate predictable results...

    ...and that anyone can do it.

    And yet, it doesn't translate into MY hopeful experience (as the reader.)

    You talk about yourself a lot.

    Which I understand that you're trying to build credibility.

    But the value you're GIVING ME (as a paying customer, who wants to shatter my own self-imposed glass ceiling of financial limitations) doesn't come through.

    I'm left with seeing you doubled your business a handful of times and have a ton of financial freedom, as a result, but the value I'm thinking I receive from your seminar doesn't hit me over the head with a 2x4.

    Part of demonstrating credibility is utilizing your insights to connect-the-dots for what I'm going to create... IF I attend your seminar.

    Okay... so...

    Then I listened to your first speaking engagement video and there's a lot of cool little tidbits that newbies would definitely benefit from, but where's your theme? What is your overall brand?

    What message are you selling?

    Marketing from a different perspective?

    Understanding how to read your stats?

    Realizing that you need to convert the traffic you have... not drive more traffic?

    Okay, so your hook is the difference between evolution and revolution (and it's certainly not being used effectively throughout the copy.)

    It's NOT a distinct, COMPLETE brand.

    If you're going to portray yourself as an expert, authority or guru, your copy (and overall design of your brand) needs to convey that, right?

    Bottom line:

    The copy doesn't come across communicating "the future of selling" at all.

    It's not YOUR voice.

    It's not communicating, "FINALLY experience the massive breakthroughs you need to make a REAL dependable online-based income!"

    And lastly, you didn't utilize your testimonials very well.

    You need WAY more social proof, used in a much more dynamic way.

    Budget wise:

    $2000 for helping you refine and redefine your public brand, extract out of your more of the mind-blowing benefits that will increase the perceived value of your seminar and writing the actual copy is definitely on the low end of compensation...

    ...especially for the high-end price point (and that's already been pointed out.)

    It makes me question IF you're the real deal (since you know what crafting converting copy takes.)

    Mark Pescetti

    (UPDATE!) Man, in the time I took to write the first part of this post, make my daughter breakfast, feed my dogs and finish my response, there's been a lot of activity. This got people going. Interesting.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      I'm with Gordon on this.

      Doesn't matter what he's charging for the event. What he's charging per ticket BEFORE expenses. Not to jink the OP, but there's no guarantee how many seats he'll sell. But he will need to guarantee the hotel/convention center a certain number of hotel rooms booked and make up the difference if it falls short.

      Bottom line: His stated budget is his stated budget.

      If it's not to your liking, then don't bother posting in this thread or contacting the OP.

      My 3 cents,

      Mike

      P.S. To the OP... Rick Duris brought up a great point. If you consider including a royalty with your offer, then you may be able to get some more experienced copywriters contacting you to help you sell out your event.
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      • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
        Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

        Not to jink the OP, but there's no guarantee how many seats he'll sell.
        Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

        If you consider including a royalty with your offer, then you may be able to get some more experienced copywriters contacting you to help you sell out your event.
        The first part I quoted is why the second part I quoted is unlikely to happen.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
          Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

          The first part I quoted is why the second part I quoted is unlikely to happen.
          The short answer is "it depends".

          I've written copy for seminars that put 300+ attendees in seats at $1500 per head, so I have a bit of experience in this area. I've also consulted several IM-related seminar promoters in the last 2 years that I can not publicly divulge.

          Here's the more detailed answer.

          1. It depends on the speakers Matt gets lined up... promoters like Glazer-Kennedy, Yanik Silver, and Armand Morin (when he used to do the Big Seminar) used to pack the house with paid attendees b/c of the strength of their speakers' reputation.

          2. It depends on the price point per ticket... Obviously, the lower the price point, the easier it is to make the sale.

          3. It depends on how seats he's looking to fill. I've seen a number of Perry Marshall events in the last 4-5 years for $5-7K that reportedly sold out the needed 20-30 seats. It was more personalized in-depth training so it made sense that Perry didn't want 100-300 people in attendee for his team and him to work with. Some of John Carlton's past seminars have been $5K and up with a smaller group of attendees for the same exact reasons.

          4. It depends on how much targeted traffic Matt and his affiliates are able to drive to the sales page.

          5. It depends on the quality of the salesletter and how well it converts.

          6. It depends on the quality of advice Matt gets from his copywriter. I know of one other copywriter (off the top of my head) who has probably done 10+ million in seminar ticket sales from his copywriting skills. Based on his track record, he consistently gets 5 figures plus royalties for writing seminar-related salesletters so I doubt he'll contact Matt and offer to help.

          Of course, your experiences with StomperNet has probably enabled you to reach similar conclusions.

          Take care,

          Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
            Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

            The short answer is "it depends".

            I've written copy for seminars that put 300+ attendees in seats at $1500 per head, so I have a bit of experience in this area. I've also consulted several IM-related seminar promoters in the last 2 years that I can not publicly divulge.

            Here's the more detailed answer.

            1. It depends on the speakers Matt gets lined up... promoters like Glazer-Kennedy, Yanik Silver, and Armand Morin (when he used to do the Big Seminar) used to pack the house with paid attendees b/c of the strength of their speakers' reputation.

            2. It depends on the price point per ticket... Obviously, the lower the price point, the easier it is to make the sale.

            3. It depends on how seats he's looking to fill. I've seen a number of Perry Marshall events in the last 4-5 years for $5-7K that reportedly sold out the needed 20-30 seats. It was more personalized in-depth training so it made sense that Perry didn't want 100-300 people in attendee for his team and him to work with. Some of John Carlton's past seminars have been $5K and up with a smaller group of attendees for the same exact reasons.

            4. It depends on how much targeted traffic Matt and his affiliates are able to drive to the sales page.

            5. It depends on the quality of the salesletter and how well it converts.

            6. It depends on the quality of advice Matt gets from his copywriter. I know of one other copywriter (off the top of my head) who has probably done 10+ million in seminar ticket sales from his copywriting skills. Based on his track record, he consistently gets 5 figures plus royalties for writing seminar-related salesletters so I doubt he'll contact Matt and offer to help.

            Of course, your experiences with StomperNet has probably enabled you to reach similar conclusions.

            Take care,

            Mike
            I've personally attended seminars (in the past) that were a sizable investment.

            I think the most I spent was $3000+ for a James Ray (guy from The Secret) seminar in San Francisco.

            It was a two day event. The value I was looking forward to receiving was clear. And I already knew his reputation, so I didn't need to feel any more sold on the credibility factor.

            In this case... (and the reason why I responded to the copy HE wrote, rather than budgeting issues...)

            A $5,000 per seat price tag is HUGE - unless you're Tony Robbins or someone who commands a fairly massive reputation and following.

            He doesn't have that.

            I addressed the components that need attention to even remotely entertain the notion of selling $5000 seats for a person who is only slightly a millionaire... if one at all.

            As far as budget is concerned...

            His brand is selling quantum growth in people's marketing results (and profits.)

            You'd absolutely expect someone like him to come the table with a much higher budget.

            At first blush...

            A $2000 budget doesn't show confidence in his seminar - nor does it reflect the potential ROI he can enjoy IF the copy converts.

            But I figured because he wrote sub-par copy (in a format that's far from being considered visually appealing) that sold his quota...

            ... I assumed he's blasting a qualified list (or many of them) once the letter has been created.

            As far as selling $5000 seats is concerned...

            That's a tough one, no matter how much value is properly communicated.

            I'd personally bring the price point WAY down and create a space for more seats to make up my profits in volume.

            Mark Pescetti

            P.S. I just did two separate projects in the biz opp market. One is converting spectacularly, while the other one is hopefully going to launch later this week. I emailed Matt and showed him one of the examples because I feel like using a similar approach would convert like made for him. I offered to take on the project because I personally love writing this kind of sh!t. But I did state I'd want a piece of the back end to take it on. $2000 is just way too low. And while I agree there are copywriters who could pound this out in a day, I'm not one of them.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
              Banned
              Yes well, some 'interesting' veins of thought in this thread. Hmmm.

              I did actually reply much earlier in response to Ray's initial comment but then thought the better of it and deleted my reply. (Basically questioning Ray why $2,000 was tantamount to an insult).

              Bottom line is Matt has stated the budget he has available for this piece.

              Either you're interested in the gig or you're not. And if the latter applies, why on earth are you still chirping away in this thread?

              If you want to discuss this point of difference, why not create another thread similar to the $200 thread which was posted up a week or two back? Afterall the discussion there went on for ages, so I'm sure you could argue back and forth there to your hearts content between yourselves until the cows come home, your points of difference.

              However, doing so on Matt's thread here is a little disrespectful.

              He's clearly stated the budget - it's $2,000.

              Irrespective of how much each seat costs in this seminar either you can accept the project or turn your back on it. It's pretty simple really.

              At the end of the day, it's not really your ultimate concern how much he's charging for each seat. After all is said and done it's just a figure. Either you're going to focus on the benefits of attending this seminar or you're not. Nothing else matters.

              Either you've got the chops, the skill to pull this off or you haven't, or you don't want to for the suggested ROI for your skill and time.

              I say good on you Matt for putting the offer up here. We could do with seeing more offers placed on the table similar to this. I applaud you.

              Really, it's not for anyone else to criticize openly the OP's business model, this is his concern only and really doesn't have a great deal to do with any outside party not privy to making this decision.

              Whichever copywriter decides to take this on - best of luck to you!

              Good on you.


              Mark Andrews
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              • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
                Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                Either you're interested in the gig or you're not. And if the latter applies, why on earth are you still chirping away in this thread?
                Because this is the Copywriting Forum, and "This section is for the discussion of Copywriting" as it says on the front page. If you want to post a job with no discussion, my understanding is they have a Warriors for Hire section, right? I don't discuss copy in that section. But this IS the proper area of the forum for discussion of copy, right?

                Seriously, what is the big deal? Seems like a lot of people have thin skins today, no? I gave the best advice I have, for free, and maybe it's not the advice that makes the most people happy or warm and fuzzy. But it will make Matt more money, and the advice I gave to other copywriters will make them more money, too. It's a win win for everyone, or am I wrong?

                Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                However, doing so on Matt's thread here is a little disrespectful.
                It's not a WSO post - he didn't pay to post it here. As far as I am aware, my right to post is exactly equal to his in this area of the site. And how is my opinion and recommendation disrespectful in the first place when I'm offering advice based on the OP? Who exactly is disrespected?

                Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                Irrespective of how much each seat costs in this seminar costs either you can accept the project or turn your back on it. It's pretty simple really.
                Do you really not think the price of what you are selling determines the kind of copywriter you need?

                Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                At the end of the day, it's not really your ultimate concern how much he's charging for each seat. After all is said and done it's just a figure. Either you're going to focus on the benefits of attending this seminar or you're not. Nothing else matters.
                Do you really not think the price of what is being sold is a factor on whether people will buy it?

                Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                Either you've got the chops, the skill to pull this off or you haven't, or you don't want to for the suggested ROI for your skill and time.
                Look man, it would be one thing if I came in and said "NO ONE WILL EVER DO IT FOR THAT MONEY AND YOU SUCK AND I AM AWESOME AND I WOULD ONLY DO IT IF YOU PAY MORE!!!!"

                But that's not what I said despite people continuing to respond as if it IS what I said. (That's part of why I'm still chirping, too.)

                You want to talk about ROI - that's all I'm talking about. Best ROI in the OP's situation is not to take a chance on a rookie copywriter looking for a break. Do you really think that it is?

                Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                I say good on you Matt for putting the offer up here. We could do with seeing more offers placed on the table similar to this. I applaud you.
                Nothing wrong with posting the offer, but if you don't want it discussed, maybe don't post it in a discussion forum?

                Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                Really, it's not for anyone else to criticize openly the OP's business model, this is his concern only and really doesn't have a great deal to do with any outside party not privy to making this decision.
                It's only anyone's business insofar as he posted it in a public copywriting discussion forum, where, **** me if I'm wrong, but I thought the WHOLE POINT was discussing the business, science, art etc. of copywriting.

                I want the OP to get more conversions at a higher price point, AND I want him to get the best outcome for the money he has to spend. I don't think hiring a copywriter is the best way to get that. I've said why, I've said what to do instead. Where is the alleged disrespect?

                I want every copywriter here to be charging what they are worth relative to what ROI they can bring to the table. I don't think you SHOULD be willing to take LESS than 50% of a single sale in order to get a break or build your portfolio or whatever. Yeah, you might start a "relationship" and a "reputation" but it's built on "YEAH THIS GUY WILL DO IT FOR LESS!"

                I don't recommend that either, obviously. But again, where is the disrespect?
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                • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
                  Banned
                  A general observation only Colin, I wasn't singling you out.


                  Mark Andrews
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
        Colin,

        If you're going to quote me, at least get the quote RIGHT.

        Here's what I wrote (bolding mine):

        Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post


        P.S. To the OP... Rick Duris brought up a great point. If you consider including a royalty with your offer, then you may be able to get some more experienced copywriters contacting you to help you sell out your event.
        I have never recommended writing for spec or straight percentage for any client -- EVER.

        As for the rest of comments, I have better things to do than argue with you.

        I stand by my original statement... if you're not interested in the gig because it's below your asking price, then do the professional thing and don't piss all over the OP's thread.
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        • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
          Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

          I have never recommended writing for spec or straight percentage for any client -- EVER.
          Well if the budget is the budget at $2K, which is below the fee a more experienced copywriter would charge, I presumed you meant a royalty in lieu of the full fee. I didn't mean "royalties instead of any fees" - I meant "royalties instead of full fees." Hopefully that explains it better. We're still talking about the same thing.

          Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

          As for the rest of comments, I have better things to do than argue with you.
          I don't, but to be fair, I'm so up front about it, I put it in my sig.

          Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

          I stand by my original statement... if you're not interested in the gig because it's below your asking price, then do the professional thing and don't piss all over the OP's thread.
          Anything I said here was in service of getting the OP what he wants, which is high conversions for little money. I made multiple suggestions as to why this approach might not get him the results he wants, and made suggestions of several alternate approaches that I think would yield better results and not cost a penny more.

          To put them in one convenient place:

          1. Write it yourself - you did it before, so you know the product. At a minimum, just edit the price. You'd be surprised how well this will probably work.

          2. Buy a critique instead of a new letter - yes, I sell these, but I know others that do, too. For less than your budget, you can get a much more experienced pro tell you how to take your current letter from where it is, to where it needs to be. You'd still have to do the fixes yourself, but you did the first letter, so I'm presuming you're decent already, and who doesn't like getting better at something you're already good at?

          In fact, Mr. Pescetti up the thread gave a decent assessment of things you could improve. Use his free review and I think you'd get at least as good or a better result than hiring out for your price point at this rate.

          NOTE: If your product was priced much less, my advice would be different. The high price point, in my not-so-humble, but experienced opinion, requires experience selling to that price point.

          What I don't think you should do:

          1. Don't settle on quality of copy because of the limitation of your budget. Your dollar would go farther spent on a pro review. Or again, just take the free one above and run with it. Keep the $2K and use it for something else you need.

          2. Don't think offering royalties in lieu of normal fees will get you a better quality of copywriter. It wouldn't really sweeten the deal, you'd get the same applicants, except now you owe them $2K PLUS.

          That's all I got. It's the same kind of advice I'd charge for if asked privately. Sorry if it offends, or sounds pompous or negative. I'm not intending to write about or protect feelings. I'm writing about results and money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Femolapa
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

      The short answer is "it depends".
      Well, that's always the short answer. I was offering my opinion on this particular set of circumstances, with the information we all have at hand. I'm not speculating on some possible scenario. If the OP was "will something like this work" I would have responded differently.

      Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

      1. It depends on the speakers Matt gets lined up.
      What's the likelyhood that he has speakers of that caliber, but has not mentioned them in the OP? High, or low?

      Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

      2. It depends on the price point per ticket.
      Which we know is high, so that makes it harder, agreed?

      Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

      3. It depends on how seats he's looking to fill.
      Again, unknown based on the OP. I don't have any way to base my opinion on this aspect as I don't even have enough info to guess.

      Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

      4. It depends on how much targeted traffic Matt and his affiliates are able to drive to the sales page.
      This is the biggest unknown. As a copywriter, being offered a percentage in lieu of payment of fees (as opposed to percentage ON TOP of fees), I would be wary, especially since the OP has noted that it's only going to be offered as a bonus to something else. So - with that in mind - more likely, or less likely?

      Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

      5. It depends on the quality of the salesletter and how well it converts.
      As others have stated, copywriters willing to do the job for this price admit to giving it little time and attention, and at best, you will get use of a proven template (though beginning copywriters won't have one of these).

      Consider that the up front fee being offered isn't even the same percentage that an affiliate would get. Which bothers me because MY copy would be at LEAST 50% responsible for their take anyways. Right?

      But regardless, this being the ONE thing the copywriter has control over in the equation of "should accept royalties in lieu of fees", I could still write the bestest ever letter and if any of the other factors don't pan out (and many of the other reasons a launch can fail not listed here, like technical or banking issues), I lose.

      Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

      6. It depends on the quality of advice Matt gets from his copywriter.
      I'm trying to give the best advice I have, and defend it with logic that I am sharing with everyone. As I've pointed out, even taking your "it depends" factors into account, I still stand by what I said which was it was "unlikely" not "impossible.

      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      Yea, I think you are.

      gjabiz
      Can you clarify?

      Do you mean to say "I think you are coming across that way despite not meaning to"?

      Or are you saying "I think you are lying when you say you are not trying."

      Because one of those is useful feedback, and one of them is you being a dick needlessly. My response would be different depending on your intent.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    And the winner is!...

    I will engage myself for your work. There are many ways of making money quickly via online, it depend on the way you like to follow. If you like to use me, get back to me.
    Thank you players...thank you ball boys.
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    freakin hilarious copy nazi...
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    • Profile picture of the author Smalls91
      Poor Matt is going to wonder what happened to his thread! It's kind of like being outside Wal-mart the morning of Black Friday. But with less old people.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      freakin hilarious copy nazi...
      I thought we needed a bit of levity my son.
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Heck, everything else aside, I'm just excited someone like Matt wants to put on a $5K event. Whoever the copywriter will be, I'm happy for them.

    - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    At least this guy isn't offering just $200 for a sales letter....LOLOL.

    I give him credit for that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    There will ever be two camps in the copywriting forum about
    fees it seems. Everyone is entitled to express his opinions.

    I believe in value-based fees because these are what benefit
    BOTH client and copywriters in the long run. If I feel a potential
    client is trying to "low ball" in an offer placed here I will freely
    express my opinions.

    It's up to the reader to take it or leave it. I don't see this as
    an attack on the poster or their post.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      There will ever be two camps in the copywriting forum about fees it seems. Everyone is entitled to express his opinions.

      I believe in value-based fees because these are what benefit
      BOTH client and copywriters in the long run. If I feel a potential
      client is trying to "low ball" in an offer placed here I will freely
      express my opinions.

      It's up to the reader to take it or leave it. I don't see this as
      an attack on the poster or their post.

      -Ray Edwards
      If you feel you have this right Ray, surely the same right applies to the guy who posts up his budget. He doesn't need to be told his budget is 'tantamount to an insult'. Your wording not mine.

      Would you afford him this same right as you yourself afford yourself this right to freedom of expression? Freedom to state his budget even if personally you feel it's low-balling and insulting?


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
    I don't see what all the fuss is about really...

    While I totally understand and respect everyone's opinion, my take on this is that this is an opportunity for someone to develop a long-term relationship with the client.

    Let me tell you that some of my best clients came from Elance - we aren't talking low-ball clients either. I started out on 'small' projects which in time turned into larger, more lucrative projects. One of those clients I've worked with for 18 months now on a very good retainer, and I even went and met her when in Dubai.

    If you think you have what it takes, then take the opportunity... otherwise you'll never know where it may lead.
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    People are definitely entitled to chime in on any issue related to copywriting.

    Of course, everyone is going to do what that are going to do. We all know that.

    But everything that's copywriting-related is up for discussion....not really any news.

    The often-repeated statement that it's their business what they do doesn't negate the fact that you can discuss any copy-related matter here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Formal Shorts
      There's only one thing for it...



      Get in here Steve and ease the tension with your gentle humour and general good nature.

      The Dark Knight CopyWrites...

      Good luck with your search Matt, and indeed with your event.
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      • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
        Banned
        As a writer, I've been following this thread with great interest from the outset. My personal take is that any discussion of this nature between professional writers inevitably leads to a collision course of egos.

        There is no right or wrong corner in this particular boxing match though as it has been quite correctly stated that this is a copywriting 'discussion' forum. The other side of the coin is that the OP is quite entitled to charge any ticket fees whatsoever for his big event, and price up his copy requirements as HE ALONE sees fit - whether you feel it a derisory sum of $$$ or not. After all you don't have to apply for the gig, or comment on it, and it won't affect your own personal standards or rates one iota.

        Americans posting replies have got one up on the Brit pack at present though. It's 1.30am in the morning here . . . . and we're all knackered. So I'll bid you goodnight.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
          Banned
          Don't you worry, a few of us Brits are still writing copy like the clappers at 4:30am.

          Knackered? Far from it.

          You'll be sorely mistaken if you think at 1:30am I'm close to needing any rest. 1:30am is for lightweights.

          4 hours sleep a night is more than enough for another 20 hours of copywriting occasionally popping up here to the CW forum for a gulp of air before getting back to writing like a speed demon at 90mph.

          And the mind? Tonight it's on fire.

          Firing on all cylinders.

          Screaming for action.

          Fingers flying across the keyboard quivering in a blur as the words just pour out of my fingertips in a never ending stream.

          Trouble is, there's not a decent chinwag in sight to sink my teeth into... 'tis a right bugger.

          Bottoms up!


          Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Interesting thread. Not the usual $200 offer but I'm struck by the discontinuity of the offer. A guy making $120k/month wants to offer a 1/2 days pay for a sales letter.

    Alarm bells are going off in my head.

    This is not a ring my hat will enter though I'm sure he's got a ring full of hats. Maybe one of them turn out like Sean or Nick and everybody wins.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlloyd
    Hey guys, thanks for the responses... and all the pm's.

    BTW, I go waay back with Daegan. I wrote his first ever
    online sales letter and many more after that. So I know
    that you are in good company.
    That's great Ray, I'm good friends with Daegan, I've seen some of
    his earlier stuff... I'd love to see which letters you
    did for him.

    "Select your copywriter and pay them the agreed upon fee.

    Then as a first task, have the copywriter craft a "Second Helpings" letter and mail it to your previous attendees. Charge 75% off, so basically $1250/each."
    Good idea Rick, only problem is I sold seats to this new event at the last one I did (and around 35% of them bought)... so I probably can't do it on this one.

    "So, Matt, please consider at least looking at some Newbs SPEC work, if they can write fast, in the next few days...and at least give them a chance at very little expenditure of your time...
    and"
    Thanks gjabiz... will do.

    "My advice would be to just write it again yourself. "
    I would Colin, but the only reason I'm not is I don't have the time... I move pretty fast in my business, and have a lot going on right now. If I sit down to write the letter, it will likely take weeks, I'll procrastinate, and it won't get done. I have a deadline for it, so that's why I'd prefer to just pay someone else.

    For all of you going on about the price, I get it. But as I said above... a lot of you don't know the full story with how I'll be promoting it. I'm happy to tell you if you PM me.

    But I offered 2k because that's all I want to spend on this one... I've got a lot of interest, from decent writers too, so I'll choose someone shortly. If it's too low for you, that's ok, feel free to pass on this one.

    I don't mind people using this thread to discuss whether what I'm offering is fair... I have great respect for good copy writers. I do 95% of all my own copy, and I'm doing fairly decent numbers... so I know how important it is.

    Only thing I have a problem with is this:

    "Interesting thread. Not the usual $200 offer but I'm struck by the discontinuity of the offer. A guy making $120k/month wants to offer a 1/2 days pay for a sales letter.

    Alarm bells are going off in my head."
    Bruce... not sure what you mean. If you think how much money I make in a day should determine what I pay for things, that's stupid.

    Or... if you're insinuating that my numbers are misleading (or made up?)... well, that's another story. Either way I don't really care. If you're not interested, don't apply. I just don't like snide little comments like that...
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    • Profile picture of the author videolover7
      Originally Posted by mattlloyd View Post

      Bruce... not sure what you mean. If you think how much money I make in a day should determine what I pay for things, that's stupid.
      It's called value-based pricing.

      With this model, the copywriter gets a percentage of gross sales.

      And it's not stupid. It's a win-win for both parties when the copywriter has a proven track record.

      VL
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      • Profile picture of the author mattlloyd
        Originally Posted by videolover7 View Post

        It's called value-based pricing.

        With this model, the copywriter gets a percentage of gross sales.

        And it's not stupid. It's a win-win for both parties when the copywriter has a proven track record.
        VL
        No sh*t. I know what that is. But, of the total sales I make in a month, this one sales letter, for this one event, may be less than 5% of my monthly sales... so clearly, my overall monthly sales is irrelevant for what I pay on this one job.

        If I was hiring a copywriter to do ALL my copy from this point on, then sure, they'd be entitled to a % of everything. But I am not.
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        • Profile picture of the author videolover7
          Originally Posted by mattlloyd View Post

          No sh*t. I know what that is. But, of the total sales I make in a month, this one sales letter, for this one event, may be less than 5% of my monthly sales... so clearly, my overall monthly sales is irrelevant for what I pay on this one job.

          If I was hiring a copywriter to do ALL my copy from this point on, then sure, they'd be entitled to a % of everything. But I am not.
          No need to get vulgar Matt.

          Most likely outcome: for $2,000 you'll get mediocre copy at best. For a percentage of sales, you'd get quality copy.

          Hopefully your prospects won't read this thread and see you apparently don't care all that much, because the seminar is "only 5% of your income". Those type of statements don't reflect very well on a marketer.

          VL
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    I think...yep this is my new favorite subforum.

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  • Profile picture of the author Shazadi
    Matt, my post count here isn't currently high enough for PMs - would you mind sending a quick note to laurakryza[at]gmail.com so I can get in touch? I'm not one of these elites flooded with $10,000 clients (heck, Microsoft didn't pay me that), so I'd be happy to chat.
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  • Profile picture of the author alfid
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Harlan
      There was a time when I would have been all over an offer like this.

      And I remember those days.

      I was glad to get anything.

      I'd be so grateful an opportunity like this came along.

      Gigabiz is correct.

      Someone wise will jump all over this.

      Heck, 2000 would pay for the extra miles I'm putting on my Lexus.

      So before you turn your nose up in the air, ask yourself:

      Could I use 2 grand?

      If the answer is yes, get your ass in the game and don't question the guy.

      You're getting a grand up front.

      Is it a tough sell?

      Maybe.

      But you get paid ANYWAY guys.

      Do it.

      Mike, Gigabiz:

      You guys get it.

      Newbies? Get the heck in the game.

      2 grand is still 2 grand.
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      • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
        Thanks Harlan,

        I was reading this and it struck me:

        Matt's made an offer for a copywriter.
        If it's for you, then go for it.
        And if it's not then skip over it.
        But don't sit here and criticise.

        Nobody ever build a statue to a critic.

        There are copywriters who work from anywhere from $200 to $20,000.

        Makes sense there are copywriters here who would work for $2,000. Not long ago I was one of them.

        Hell, I've spoken to Matt before and I know he's a serious player, and I'm tempted to throw my hat into the ring for this one because I know the value of long term clients like him.

        But if the offer isn't for you then for crying out loud cut the bitching, spitefulness and nastiness and let someone take advantage of what appears to be a great opportunity.
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        • Profile picture of the author mattlloyd
          Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

          So before you turn your nose up in the air, ask yourself:

          Could I use 2 grand?

          If the answer is yes, get your ass in the game and don't question the guy.
          Thankyou Harlan, I appreciate that, especially coming from yourself.

          Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer View Post

          Hell, I've spoken to Matt before and I know he's a serious player, and I'm tempted to throw my hat into the ring for this one because I know the value of long term clients like him.

          But if the offer isn't for you then for crying out loud cut the bitching, spitefulness and nastiness and let someone take advantage of what appears to be a great opportunity.
          Hugh, appreciate it.

          Originally Posted by videolover7 View Post

          No need to get vulgar Matt.

          Most likely outcome: for $2,000 you'll get mediocre copy at best. For a percentage of sales, you'd get quality copy.

          Hopefully your prospects won't read this thread and see you apparently don't care all that much, because the seminar is "only 5% of your income". Those type of statements don't reflect very well on a marketer.
          There you go again... taking the original meaning of my words, and making them mean something entirely different.

          I never said I "don't care all that much" about my prospects. I do care very much... if you knew me you'd know I care more about my clients / prospects than just about anyone in my niche. Speak to a few of them, and you'll see.

          I don't want to spend the next few days going back and forth here... so, let's end it right there.

          Besides, yesterday I paid one of the copy writers on here $2000 to do this letter. And, he's a very good writer- I'm excited to see what he comes up with (I originally offered 1k upfront... but, this guy was good- he was firm, did not let me bargain him down, and I respect that. So I paid him upfront).

          Thanks to all those who sent me messages... I'll be beginning my first direct mail campaign in August, and I'll be doing that on a fairly big scale. I crank out products fairly quickly, so I'm always on the lookout for decent writers (and my budget for the direct mail letters will be much higher, since I'm putting a considerable amount into the list rental, mailing house,postage etc etc...very excited to get that going)

          Again, thank you all.
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          • Profile picture of the author Harlan
            Originally Posted by mattlloyd View Post

            Besides, yesterday I paid one of the copy writers on here $2000 to do this letter. And, he's a very good writer- I'm excited to see what he comes up with (I originally offered 1k upfront... but, this guy was good- he was firm, did not let me bargain him down, and I respect that. So I paid him upfront).

            Thanks to all those who sent me messages... I'll be beginning my first direct mail campaign in August, and I'll be doing that on a fairly big scale. I crank out products fairly quickly, so I'm always on the lookout for decent writers (and my budget for the direct mail letters will be much higher, since I'm putting a considerable amount into the list rental, mailing house,postage etc etc...very excited to get that going)

            Again, thank you all.
            Thanks for shopping in the Warrior Forum.

            The only place in the world where you can be abused for hiring someone.
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            • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              Thanks for shopping in the Warrior Forum.

              The only place in the world where you can be abused for hiring someone.
              It's not the Warrior Forum. It's the internet. Where my opinion is common sense, and your opinion is stupid, wrong, and frankly, Hitler.




              ...

              Note, above is sarcasm. *I normally don't need a disclaimer, but I've been misunderstood a couple of times in this thread.

              ...

              Note, above is sarcasm. I normally don't need a disclaimer, but I've been misunderstood a couple of times in this thread.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

                It's not the Warrior Forum. It's the internet. Where my opinion is common sense, and your opinion is stupid, wrong, and frankly, Hitler..

                Note, above is sarcasm. *I normally don't need a disclaimer, but I've been misunderstood a couple of times in this thread. .
                Good grief talk about needing to grow up.

                Likening Harlan to Hitler for this? When
                you've been nothing but trouble throughout
                this entire thread?


                Mark Andrews
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                • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
                  Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

                  Good grief talk about needing to grow up.

                  Likening Harlan to Hitler for this? When
                  you've been nothing but trouble throughout
                  this entire thread?


                  Mark Andrews
                  You've clearly not heard of "Godwin's Law"?

                  Seriously, I even labeled it THREE TIMES as sarcasm to make it clear it was a joke, one time you even included in your quote. Did you think that possible, maybe, it might have been... SARCASM?

                  Sorry to make a joke that went over your head. Untwist your panties a little, Susan.*







                  * This is a joke. A joke. A joke. A joke. A joke. It's a joke, OK? Lighten up because it's a joke, so if you start to get mad, laugh instead because it's a joke. A joke joke joke. OK? Joke.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

                    I don't know why everyone ignores ol' Joe Goebbels. Now there was a copywriter.
                    Because his niche wasn't as evergreen as he thought it was? :p
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

                    You've clearly not heard of "Godwin's Law"?

                    Seriously, I even labeled it THREE TIMES as sarcasm to make it clear it was a joke, one time you even included in your quote. Did you think that possible, maybe, it might have been... SARCASM?

                    Sorry to make a joke that went over your head. Untwist your panties a little, Susan.*







                    * This is a joke. A joke. A joke. A joke. A joke. It's a joke, OK? Lighten up because it's a joke, so if you start to get mad, laugh instead because it's a joke. A joke joke joke. OK? Joke.
                    Some jokes are sick and your joke...

                    ...is about as sick as they get.


                    Mark Andrews
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              • Profile picture of the author Harlan
                Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

                It's not the Warrior Forum. It's the internet. Where my opinion is common sense, and your opinion is stupid, wrong, and frankly, Hitler.
                In the name of all the members of my family killed by Hitler, I wish you feel the hate behind your words.
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                • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
                  Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                  In the name of all the members of my family killed by Hitler, I wish you feel the hate behind your words.
                  Dude, what hate? There's zero hate in fully labelled (but apparently badly phrased) reference to Godwin's Law.

                  So sorry man, I was just agreeing with your original statement in an apparently completely misunderstood way. It's not just on the WF, but on the internet in general, you can give advice that you think is good (which is all I was trying to do for the OP), and people think it's abuse or whatever.

                  If you truly found the way I phrased it offensive, I truly apologize. I was just making a joke about how far the thread had devolved, and that usually Godwin's Law would have kicked in. It wasn't even a Hitler joke - it was a Godwin's Law joke. (Which by definition, includes the word Hitler.)

                  If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at the guy who made the crack about Goebbels being a good copywriter. That's a "sick" joke, and seems to be made in the spirit of one. Mine wasn't. Honest.

                  I didn't even mean to direct it at you (which is why I put the disclaimer). If you'll read it the way I intended my statement, I was speaking as the general internet poster - "What I (not me specifically, but whomever happens to be posting) say is clearly correct, whatever you (Not Harlan specifically, but whoever disagrees) is completely and totally wrong."

                  That seems to be the attitude that most of the bad feelings in this thread came from, after all. I simply meant to ape the typical internet trolling poster who ends an argument by invoking Godwin's Law, and now it appears I have been confused with such a troll in reality. Such is the problem with online communication, I guess.

                  So hey look, I said a bad word, but one that was referencing a well known and documented phenomenon about threads going off the rails, you thought I was calling you Hitler. I wasn't, but I apologize anyway.

                  My bad for phrasing it the way I did. I don't make light of Hitler the man, or his actions, but seriously, that's not even close to what I was talking about or commenting on. Just Godwin's Law, which actually makes sense in context. Which I presumed more people here would know about. Guess not.

                  Can we all just get along now? Maybe go back to discussing copy, which Scout's honor, is all I came in here to do.
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Colin,
                It's not the Warrior Forum. It's the internet. Where my opinion is common sense, and your opinion is stupid, wrong, and frankly, Hitler.

                ...

                Note, above is sarcasm. *I normally don't need a disclaimer, but I've been misunderstood a couple of times in this thread.
                Ummm... Dude? Many people cease to find humor in anything that mentions Hitler. And especially when you call someone named Kilstein that.

                In terms of wordplay, that was clever. From the "awareness of your audience" perspective, that was one of the most thoughtless gaffes I've seen here. Disclaimers or no.

                Saying something like that to me would be tacky, but mildly humorous. Saying it to Harlan is just beyond rude.


                Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author NickN
              This thread should probably die soon. The OP got what he came for.

              Let's once again make this forum the cheery place it's always been know as!
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