Before I Hire a Copywriter, What Do I Need To Know?

12 years ago

(UPDATE: Sorry, shouldn't have responded by before going to sleep;-)

1) Writing a video script is how conversational copy should sound.

But the reality is, most copywriters still tend to make sentences sound too convoluted, which doesn't translate well to video.

So yes, choosing someone who knows how to make a video script flow well is important. And you also have to consider your voice over budget.

2) Length is irrelevant. Creating an amazing hook, story and really seducing your audience to get the consequence of what you're saying is where your focus should be.

3) Prices are all over the place. Study the copywriters you're drawn to and choose the one you think you'll work best with... and will hit it out of the park.

4) I'm sure there are some copywriters who perform the video production and help with voice overs. But you SHOULD be looking for someone to write the script, help you with your branding and make sure all the true benefits are being communicated. You need to have an extra budget for the other components for everything to get done at the level you want.

Mark Pescetti

P.S. Your budget should be based on how much money you project to make in a given market, the quality of your product, your belief in your product, your level of expertise in driving qualified traffic, and lastly, whether your market is hungry enough for another kid on the block. Here's a blog I wrote on how to calculate your budget: http://markpescetti.com/how-to-calcu...keting-budget/

By the way, this is a fairly big market. You need to really have something special to make an impact.

P.P.S. Here's what a client did for a video script with the copy I produced: Recover My Lover | The Only Way to Get Him Back and Create the Life Together You KNOW is Meant to be |

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maximus242

12 years ago

Okay there are several considerations:

1. Very often copywriters just write the script and someone else does production. Video production is a specialized skill and online it is getting more sophisticated by the month.

2. Actors can probably do a much better job of conveying the emotion and ideas than a copywriter (who is not an actor)

3. Budgets vary WIDELY and you should know ahead of time what you want to pay and what you expect. You will get quotes between $20,000 and $200. Depends on what you're looking for.

4. Split testing is CRUCIAL

5. For video length you should trust the copywriter

6. Craig Clemens is probably the best "dating" copywriter money can buy. You'd be looking at over 10k

7. There is a warrior who just won 10 grand in a contest writing for the dating market in this copywriting forum, you could also contact him, I dont think hes that expensive... yet.

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Cool Hand Luke

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti

(UPDATE: Sorry, shouldn't have responded by before going to sleep;-)

1) Writing a video script is how conversational copy should sound.

But the reality is, most copywriters still tend to make sentences sound too convoluted, which doesn't translate well to video.

So yes, choosing someone who knows how to make a video script flow well is important. And you also have to consider your voice over budget.

2) Length is irrelevant. Creating an amazing hook, story and really seducing your audience to get the consequence of what you're saying is where your focus should be.

3) Prices are all over the place. Study the copywriters you're drawn to and choose the one you think you'll work best with... and will hit it out of the park.

4) I'm sure there are some copywriters who perform the video production and help with voice overs. But you SHOULD be looking for someone to write the script, help you with your branding and make sure all the true benefits are being communicated. You need to have an extra budget for the other components for everything to get done at the level you want.

Mark Pescetti

P.S. Your budget should be based on how much money you project to make in a given market, the quality of your product, your belief in your product, your level of expertise in driving qualified traffic, and lastly, whether your market is hungry enough for another kid on the block. Here's a blog I wrote on how to calculate your budget: Freelance Website Copywriter Mark Pescetti | Millionaire Mindset Coaching & Converting Copywriting Creation | How to Calculate Your Copywriting and Marketing Budget

By the way, this is a fairly big market. You need to really have something special to make an impact.

P.P.S. Here's what a client did for a video script with the copy I produced: Recover My Lover | The Only Way to Get Him Back and Create the Life Together You KNOW is Meant to be |

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the response. I particularly appreciate your comments on how one should set their budget parameters. As mentioned in my original post, I have strong faith that this product (when fine-tuning is finished) will be of a much higher caliber than any of the other top sellers in the market.

Although this may sound over-confident, to be frank, I feel that when this product is advertised to well-targeted traffic with a killer sales video, it's success is inevitable. This is one of many reasons I'm happy to spend the money on a great copywriter. Again, I completely understand the value of good copy and the professionals who are great at putting it together.

Also, I understand the market has a lot of offers in it already, and I definitely took that into consideration. I came to the very simple conclusion that putting out a better product than the best products that are in the market already and selling it through a sales page that competes or beats them out means it will be hard to NOT be successful.

Thanks again for the info.

Originally Posted by maximus242

Okay there are several considerations:

1. Very often copywriters just write the script and someone else does production. Video production is a specialized skill and online it is getting more sophisticated by the month.

2. Actors can probably do a much better job of conveying the emotion and ideas than a copywriter (who is not an actor)

3. Budgets vary WIDELY and you should know ahead of time what you want to pay and what you expect. You will get quotes between $20,000 and $200. Depends on what you're looking for.

4. Split testing is CRUCIAL

5. For video length you should trust the copywriter

6. Craig Clemens is probably the best "dating" copywriter money can buy. You'd be looking at over 10k

7. There is a warrior who just won 10 grand in a contest writing for the dating market in this copywriting forum, you could also contact him, I dont think hes that expensive... yet.

Thanks for the comments. Your feedback seems to be on point with the other copywriters who have mentioned specifically that I should not ask a copywriter to "time" their copy to a certain length, and I should also leave the video production part of the overall process to a team other than the copywriter. I will do that.

Also, thanks for the heads up on particular copywriters to look at. While 10k is definitely out of my budget, I will look for the user here who won the 10-grand prize for his writing in the market, and see if he's available, what his rates are, etc.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

Thanks

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maximus242

12 years ago

I would say there are several flaws in your way of thinking:

1. Just because you think its a superior product doesn't mean other people do

2. Plenty of superior operating systems have come out since Windows and have been stomped into the ground

3. Business history has shown that simply building a better mousetrap is not enough

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Cool Hand Luke

12 years ago

Originally Posted by maximus242

I would say there are several flaws in your way of thinking:

1. Just because you think its a superior product doesn't mean other people do

2. Plenty of superior operating systems have come out since Windows and have been stomped into the ground

3. Business history has shown that simply building a better mousetrap is not enough

Fair enough, but I disagree entirely.

My way of thinking about this project is advantageous. I KNOW that the product is of superior quality because I've seen ALL of the best sellers in the market, I know their strengths and weaknesses, and I've done enough research into the market (and have first-hand experience in it, along with a business partner who makes his living in the industry) to know that the information in this guide will fulfill the market's need better than the rest.

Besides that, I already know (and mentioned several times) that I am not just simply placing my product on the market and hoping people find it; I will be paying good money to put together a competitive, professional sales ad and more money generating and split-testing targeted traffic for it. We also have a branding plan in motion. Since I'm not just relying on "building a better mousetrap" as you put it, and am fully aware that the marketing is what is going to make this product a hit or a miss in the long run, I feel great about moving forward with the project.

Anyways, my confidence in the potential for success with the product is not going to change at all, but thanks for your thoughts.

Any other thoughts on the questions posed in the first post of the thread would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the helpful replies and PMs so far everyone!

Thanks
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Mark Pescetti

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

Fair enough, but I disagree entirely.

My way of thinking about this project is advantageous. I KNOW that the product is of superior quality because I've seen ALL of the best sellers in the market, I know their strengths and weaknesses, and I've done enough research into the market (and have first-hand experience in it, along with a business partner who makes his living in the industry) to know that the information in this guide will fulfill the market's need better than the rest.

Believing in what you're selling is absolutely crucial to becoming successful.

I spend 15 a day affirming, declaring and KNOWING that what I provide is off-the-hook amazing, one-of-a-kind and beyond valuable to everyone who's drawn to work with me.

That leads me to embracing the next step in being successful: Confidence.

When you feel confident, the decisions you make are completely different than when you're buying into fear, scarcity or wondering if your product or service REALLY does stack up against the competition.

In fact...

Worrying about competition in general is the act (action) of sabotaging what you want.

And...

...What you want is to help people with your product, Luke, and generate a massive amount of money in the process.

As the old adage goes...

"Where there's a will, there's a way!"

Mark Pescetti

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videolover7

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti

Believing in what you're selling is absolutely crucial to becoming successful.

That's not true.

Billions and billions of dollars worth of products are sold every year by people who have no emotional attachment whatsoever to their product.

VL

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Bill Hugall

12 years ago

Originally Posted by videolover7

That's not true.

Billions and billions of dollars worth of products are sold every year by people who have no emotional attachment whatsoever to their product.

VL

You don't need to believe in you product. you need to believe in yourself. By the way I don't care what company you are talking about. They all have emotional investment in their product in some way. "MONEY" for sure.

There is always an attachment. Their has to be. You are telling me that when someone who is stupid rich launches a product they have no attachment. BS!
Ego is a huge motivator and they may have the ability to shrug off and learn from their failures, but that doesn't mean that they have no attachment to more success. Once tasted success is the biggest rush on the planet. You must have that belief or you have nothing at all and not matter how good your sales writing is people can tell. That doesn't mean they won't buy it. I am certain the refund rates are through the roof. Don't believe me ask ClickBank about it.

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Ken Hoffman

12 years ago

Originally Posted by videolover7

That's not true.

Billions and billions of dollars worth of products are sold every year by people who have no emotional attachment whatsoever to their product.

VL

Just to clarify. belief is quite different than emotional attachment. Belief is being certain that something is true. Certainty, if you will. And certainty does not require emotion.

However, I do agree, that it helps quite a bit to believe in a product. And if you don't...what's the point, when there are plenty of other products that you can believe in.

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Kristabelle

12 years ago

have you thought of making a few different sorts of these and testing them on people first? So basic copies nothing high tech.

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Cool Hand Luke 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kristabelle

have you thought of making a few different sorts of these and testing them on people first? So basic copies nothing high tech.

"A few different sorts of" what, exactly? The product? As mentioned in the first post, the primary product is a PDF guide... it's nothing "High-tech". If you meant the sales copy, split-testing is definitely going to be a part of the process.
- Thanks
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copyassassin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

Before I Hire a Copywriter, What Do I Need To Know?

Regards,
Luke

Dude,

Based on skimming your questions, and I write this without knowing a lot of key variables, you're missing some MAJOR points.

For example, you're talking about "video" right?

Who cares.

You need a marketing funnel. Not JUST a video.

You need a copywriter who will do the following:

landing pages for optins
webinar optin page
autoresponder series
sales pages
OTO
coaching page
swipe file for affiliates

Dude, you're swimming with sharks. You need some major mojo to compete here. Again, you need a system in place.

Also, and this is really key, you need to attract some of the grande affiliates in this world to PIMP your ****. Feel me bro?

And those guys, the guys with the lists, already know how writes the good ****. Go ask them. Ask them what metrics it would take to turn them on, compredre amigo?

So, stop looking for a video script writer and step up to the big leagues, because that's where you're playing.

If you think you've got the kind, open your box to the big picture.

================================================== ======================
UPDATE AFTER THINKING (AND EATING A BAG OF NACHOS. DORITOS IF YOU WERE WONDERING)
================================================== ======================
If my memory is correct, and I sincerely apolize if I'm sourcing this wrong, CW mod Brian pointed out a site a long time ago you need to immediately check out: http://www.textyourwifeintobed.com

There's a lot of cool stuff going on here. You need to optin. You need to buy this. You need to figure out why this works and who created this, who wrote this. Put the 4th of July weed down and get cranking.

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Cool Hand Luke

12 years ago

Thanks for the response. You made a lot of great points and I have a few thoughts and comments below.

Originally Posted by copyassassin

Dude,

Based on skimming your questions, and I write this without knowing a lot of key variables, you're missing some MAJOR points.

For example, you're talking about "video" right?

Who cares.

You need a marketing funnel. Not JUST a video.

You are entirely right and I am well aware of the need for a full marketing funnel. To be fair, much of it is already in place or being worked on. I started this thread specifically because I wanted input on how to get the sales page/video together because it is what I am least experienced in. I'm not forgetting about the rest.

You need a copywriter who will do the following:

landing pages for optins
webinar optin page
autoresponder series
sales pages
OTO
coaching page
swipe file for affiliates

Dude, you're swimming with sharks. You need some major mojo to compete here. Again, you need a system in place.

Again, much of this is already in development or in place. I still appreciate your suggestion and I know it is completely valid. Thank you, really.

So let's play hypothetical here because who knows, maybe my whole funnel needs a re-vamp and re-plan:

If I had literally NONE of that going on (no autoresponders, swipe files, sales pages, squeeze pages, etc, how would you suggest I go about putting it all together? Would you suggest I hire a certain copywriter to do it all, a certain team? How would you do it?

I am always open to suggestion here when it comes to this aspect of things and I'm not afraid to scrap what I already have if the opportunity to do it better comes along.

Also, and this is really key, you need to attract some of the grande affiliates in this world to PIMP your ****. Feel me bro?

And those guys, the guys with the lists, already know how writes the good ****. Go ask them. Ask them what metrics it would take to turn them on, compredre amigo?

I'd like to split-test the funnel well before I start aggressively pursing affiliates, so this isn't really at the top of my priority list at the moment, to be honest. When I do, I'd like to already be saying "check out this funnel, our conversion rate is this impressive". I think having a great funnel in place already will be the best way to draw affiliates in. If you think I'm missing something or going about this the wrong way, please let me know what you would change. Again, I am always open to suggestions.

================================================== ======================
UPDATE AFTER THINKING (AND EATING A BAG OF NACHOS. DORITOS IF YOU WERE WONDERING)

What kind? I'm a "Cool Ranch" guy myself.

If my memory is correct, and I sincerely apolize if I'm sourcing this wrong, CW mod Brian pointed out a site a long time ago you need to immediately check out: http://www.textyourwifeintobed.com

There's a lot of cool stuff going on here. You need to optin. You need to buy this. You need to figure out why this works and who created this, who wrote this. Put the 4th of July weed down and get cranking.

I am very familiar with Michael Fiore's marketing funnels. The one above is good, but the one put together for his "Text Your Ex Back" project is GREAT. I already have the product as well, and am on the list. I can say the same for all of the top products in the market.

Thank you again for your post, as I know how valuable and true what you wrote is. I'd greatly appreciate any further thoughts about the process of putting together a marketing funnel that you may have, even if it's just a link or a recommendation for a program or something. Please let me know.

Regards,
Luke

Thanks
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copyassassin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

:

If I had literally NONE of that going on (no autoresponders, swipe files, sales pages, squeeze pages, etc, how would you suggest I go about putting it all together? Would you suggest I hire a certain copywriter to do it all, a certain team? How would you do it?

Luke

Honestly Luke, you need to get in contact with Michael Fiore and ask him these questions yourself. He already knows every answer. He also knows answers to questions you don't even know to ask.

Why re-invent the wheel?

Go to the source.

Now, the obvious question you might be asking is, "Why would he help me?"

Well, maybe he's looking to add another take to the whole market. Another approach. Maybe your ebook really is better. If it is, he'd be interested. Maybe he wants to help somebody new. Maybe you can pay him some amount to answer your questions. Maybe you can JV, if your product really is good.

Bottom line: you need to get him on the phone. Get inside his office.

I'm sure somebody on this forum knows him and could lead you to his contact info.

Anyway, this is my answer. And I'm sticking to it!

Thanks
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Andrew Gould

12 years ago

Originally Posted by copyassassin

Honestly Luke, you need to get in contact with Michael Fiore and ask him these questions yourself. He already knows every answer. He also knows answers to questions you don't even know to ask.

Just for reference, "Michael Fiore" is the pen name of copywriter Chris Haddad:

Chris Haddad | Direct Response Copywriting and Strategic Marketing Consulting | One Way Spikes of Doom | Copywriting By "Mr. Moneyfingers").

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Andrew Gould

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copyassassin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrew Gould

Just for reference, "Michael Fiore" is the pen name of copywriter Chris Haddad:

Chris Haddad | Direct Response Copywriting and Strategic Marketing Consulting | One Way Spikes of Doom | Copywriting By "Mr. Moneyfingers").

Andrew,

Thx! for the link. That dude is a MA-JA playa! I'm not in the DM world at all and I know the names of over half of those testimonals.

Luke, if you are reading this, call Chris. Even at $1,000 for an hour for this time, you'll get more "value" than if somebody on this forum did a $5,000.00 copy job.

And seriously, I think you need a strategy sessions with a person who knows what the "f" they're doing. Scrap the video sales request and get some quality direction.

Thanks

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Blade Runner 77

12 years ago

That is a wow set of replies, how is it going?

Thanks
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Cool Hand Luke

12 years ago

Originally Posted by copyassassin

Luke, if you are reading this, call Chris. Even at $1,000 for an hour for this time, you'll get more "value" than if somebody on this forum did a $5,000.00 copy job.

And seriously, I think you need a strategy sessions with a person who knows what the "f" they're doing. Scrap the video sales request and get some quality direction.

:rolleyes: I think you may be assuming that I'm completely new to all of this, when in fact I'm not. The fact that I started a thread specifically about what to look for in a copywriter particularly for video sales pages and mentioned I'm open to suggestions on other aspects of my marketing funnel does not mean I'm a lost sheep, wandering around with no idea what to do. Quite the contrary. I've already made a lot of money in this market as an affiliate and an investor in other's projects.

Also, I've extensively tested the different top sellers in the niche with all kinds of traffic, and Fiore's sales funnel is great, but is still not even in the top 3 for conversions. 2 in particular do A LOT better from all kinds of cold (but targeted) traffic, media buys, AND list recommendations.

I would still contact him if I thought he would have ANY reason whatsoever to explain to a competitor all of his secrets, but I'd probably have more luck going to the Coca Cola factory and asking for them to print out their recipe for me.

I also find it a little odd that you think an hour of his time would be "worth more than if somebody on this forum did a $5,000.00 copy job."

Really? That is somewhat surprising to read. Do you think everyone here is that bad? I've been very impressed with some of the copywriters here on this board, and a couple are on the short list for who I'm going to hire. I have complete faith that there are people here who could beat his copy.

With all of that said, thanks again for your comments. I will definitely be taking part of your advice as I will be hiring a copywriter who "knows what the "f" they're doing" to help me create a successful sales page.

Cheers,
Luke

Originally Posted by Blade Runner 88

That is a wow set of replies, how is it going?

You are absolutely right, there have been A LOT of great comments. Thanks to everyone so far, you have all been a great help.

Thanks
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copyassassin

12 years ago

I think you may be assuming that I'm completely new to all of this, when in fact I'm not.

The questions you asked made you appear pretty green to me. An experienced person would already know the answers to your questions from having DONE it.

(Unless of course, the true purpose of the post is to test the market here. In this case, a thread well done!)

Also, I've extensively tested the different top sellers in the niche with all kinds of traffic, and Fiore's sales funnel is great, but is still not even in the top 3 for conversions. 2 in particular do A LOT better from all kinds of cold (but targeted) traffic, media buys, AND list recommendations.

Now we're taking. Showing teeth.

I'm starting to get the feeling this post is just testing the waters of price on the Warrior Forum. And you're just seeing how responds and if you dig them.

I would still contact him if I thought he would have ANY reason whatsoever to explain to a competitor all of his secrets, but I'd probably have more luck going to the Coca Cola factory and asking for them to print out their recipe for me.

Even after a night of blowing up stuff, sulfur still in my nose, my ears rings, a little hung over, I still stand by this.

As a simply excerise in due dilgingence you owe it to yourself to call every player can get their insight into this market. Maybe one of them wants to sell. Maybe they want to help out a kid. Maybe they are bored.

BUT I KNOW THIS TO BE TRUTH: Players know more than you do.

This isn't a knock against you.

And, if you call enough players up, your gonna be surprised somebody will help you in a meaningful way.

Maybe they have moved on bigger projects that are higher value, but they know a sweet spot they never minded simply because the next project started.

Happens all the time.

But, I'll make the stakes more exciting for both of us.

You call the 3 players. Actually get them on the phone. Ask for help. And I bet 1 of them will tell you some really meaningful information.

$100.00 on the line. I'm betting yes. Seriously.

I also find it a little odd that you think an hour of his time would be "worth more than if somebody on this forum did a $5,000.00 copy job."

Because players know the leverage points. They know beyond 80/20 to the 99/1. They can turn 15 cents into a $1.

1Really? That is somewhat surprising to read. Do you think everyone here is that bad? I've been very impressed with some of the copywriters here on this board, and a couple are on the short list for who I'm going to hire. I have complete faith that there are people here who could beat his copy.

So, this was just a ploy to get writers to respond to you. Clever.

That being said, your questions indicated a "green person", which as it turns out, you are not. And based on those questions you asked, my advice is solid. Now, if you have a higher level of sohpication, then not solid advice.

There a lot of great copywriters here. No doubt.

Thanks
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Cool Hand Luke

12 years ago

Originally Posted by copyassassin

The questions you asked made you appear pretty green to me. An experienced person would already know the answers to your questions from having DONE it.

(Unless of course, the true purpose of the post is to test the market here. In this case, a thread well done!)

Now we're taking. Showing teeth.

I'm starting to get the feeling this post is just testing the waters of price on the Warrior Forum. And you're just seeing how responds and if you dig them.

Even after a night of blowing up stuff, sulfur still in my nose, my ears rings, a little hung over, I still stand by this.

As a simply excerise in due dilgingence you owe it to yourself to call every player can get their insight into this market. Maybe one of them wants to sell. Maybe they want to help out a kid. Maybe they are bored.

BUT I KNOW THIS TO BE TRUTH: Players know more than you do.

This isn't a knock against you.

And, if you call enough players up, your gonna be surprised somebody will help you in a meaningful way.

Maybe they have moved on bigger projects that are higher value, but they know a sweet spot they never minded simply because the next project started.

Happens all the time.

But, I'll make the stakes more exciting for both of us.

You call the 3 players. Actually get them on the phone. Ask for help. And I bet 1 of them will tell you some really meaningful information.

$100.00 on the line. I'm betting yes. Seriously.

Because players know the leverage points. They know beyond 80/20 to the 99/1. They can turn 15 cents into a $1.

So, this was just a ploy to get writers to respond to you. Clever.

That being said, your questions indicated a "green person", which as it turns out, you are not. And based on those questions you asked, my advice is solid. Now, if you have a higher level of sohpication, then not solid advice.

There a lot of great copywriters here. No doubt.

Again, thank you for the response, but you're reading something in my posts that just isn't there. This is not a "ploy to get writers to respond to [me]" or my way of "testing the price" of writers on the forum. There is no logical reason to do something like that when one can literally contact any copywriter here, either through PMs or through their signature links and DIRECTLY find out what their rates are and ask for a quote.

The reality is that while I have experience in the market, I have never been the one who directly commissions the production of a sales page, in particular. Being new to this side of things is why I have questions. That's it, that's all.

As per your bet, I've got to give it to you there, because you are probably right. I might be able to at least get one on the phone or through email, so it is definitely food for thought.

Anyways, thanks again for the...ummm...interesting comments.

Thanks

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Kristabelle

12 years ago

[DELETED]

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KingOfContentMarketing

12 years ago

Luke- check out this interview Kevin Rogers did with Chris Haddad, the "Text Your Wife Into Bed" creator:
Text My Wife Into Bed? (Why I oughta!) | Kevin Rogers|Direct Response Copywriting Expert|Marketing Consultant|The Copywriter's Edge

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Before I Hire a Copywriter, What Do I Need To Know?

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