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The Mentality of Choosing Your Price Point

by Mark Pescetti
40 replies
What you charge for your product or service is a HUGE indicator of how much you believe your solution is worth.

It’s also going to establish the perceived value your potential clients or customers feel your solution will have in their lives.

Too low and people will wonder how something so spectacular is being sold at a rock-bottom price; too high and you’ll inevitably scare a significant portion of your prospects away.

Here’s a BIG TIME question:

How much confidence do you have in what you’re selling?

If you’re confident…

…If you REALLY believe your product or service will help your target audience, then you need to charge (i.e. set your price point) at the value and impact people receive.

To quote a line from Rocky Balboa, “If you know what you’re worth, go out and get what you’re worth.”

Now…

I’m going to outright tell you HOW to determine your price point:
  • How much money do you WANT to make?
  • How many people would have to (consistently) purchase to make your intentions a reality?
  • How much are you willing to invest in connecting with your audience (i.e. what’s your budget for copywriting, web/graphic design and advertising?)
What price or rates comes to mind? (Figuring in your long term ROI.)

Got a number?

Good.

Double it.

Write down your NEW price point.

Your only job, starting RIGHT NOW, is to communicate the unmatchable value of your solution.

That being said…

If you’re worried about whether the economy can support your price point or if it’ll turn away too many customers/clients to your competition, get over it.

STOP LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO BLAME.

That’s how cowards run their business.

That’s how people who are planning to fail run their business.

“That’s NOT you!” (Another line from Rocky Balboa.)

Here’s what I want you to do:
  • Write down all the mind-blowing ways your product or service impacts people’s lives.
  • Write down all the reasons you’re passionate about your business.
  • Write down the lifestyle you’re creating because of delivering massive value in the marketplace.
Every time you begin to question what you’re worth, read the responses you wrote down to the questions above.

And NEVER compare yourself to the competition.

Your job is to focus ONLY upon the quality/value you’re providing for the people who financially contribute to your unbelievable lifestyle…

…because you KNOW they are going to appreciate the hell out of what they receive!

Mark Pescetti

P.S. If you set your price point too low and don't make enough money (or get a return on your investment,) you'll resent the hell out of yourself. You have to receive what will make devoting your time to blasting the online universe with your solution worth while (and then some.) You have to believe what you're selling is a big deal for the people who you want to HELP. Without that belief, you have no business... being in business.

P.P.S. Here’s the Rocky speech I referenced:

#choosing #mentality #point #price
  • Profile picture of the author videolover7
    Nice one Mark... what you've explained is the very essence of setting value-based fees.

    VL
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Espino
      Thanks, Mark - I need that! Especially when exposed to too much of the WSO section.

      Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author EricMN
    Excellent post, Mark.

    One of the most important lesson I ever . . . EVER learned when I began my freelance writing career was something everyone has to know.

    Never be afraid to say no.

    I had a potential client come to be trying to sell me on how great they would be to work with. How did they do it?

    "Best rates in the industry."

    "Hmm," I thought. "I could use a vacation."

    Lo and behold: 3c/word.

    . . . AND they wanted me to write for free to see if we were a fit.

    Seriously. If you can write, and I mean really write, then you have a rare skill. It's worth the time and money you put into it. You should be living comfortably, and not just 'living' from your work.

    Charge what you're worth. Get what you deserve.

    That is . . . if you deserve it.
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    • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
      Another valuable insight Mark - love it!

      let me tell you something, sometimes even if you offer something of massive value, your own confidence and self belief can prevent you from really ever achieving what you truly want.

      This is an issue I struggled with for a VERY long time. I'm working very closely with a mentor right now and one of the things we are working on is mindset - this is such a crucial aspect of success.

      After one 2-hour session in which we totally dissected my business, I further refined my niche, identified where I deliver the most value, created a revenue roadmap for the next 12 months with my money goals defined and positioned the investments for my various services.

      Put it this way, everything I offer outside this forum has now jumped in price. At first, I found myself disagreeing with pricing issues, until my mentor gently but firmly pointed out that I was undercharging and selling myself short.

      She basically reminded me that I need to quit playing small and step up in a really big way - and this includes having the faith in myself to charge my worth.

      So for me now, it's a mindset issue. My mindset is starting to shift in the right direction and rather than fearing it, I should embrace it. I guess my own fear was that no-one would pay my asking price. But, as my mentor quite rightly pointed out - when your niche is highly specific, people CAN and WILL pay your worth.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        I remember when I was quoting prices for my offline services many years ago.

        I knew I had to breakthrough my fear and see what people were really
        willing to pay.

        This was done face to face, at their place, so it seemed more intimidating.

        Fortunately I had repeat business and leads coming in regularly,
        so if I didn't get the job, no dire consequences.

        Anyway, I used to work myself into such a state that my palms would sweat, my kness would shake and I'd mumble words out of my mouth that caused them to say,
        "What did you say?"

        I didn't know whether it was because of the price, or couldn't hear what I said.

        I suspected it was the price.

        I made a point looking squarely in the eye when I said the price.
        then shut up...which at times seemed an eternity waiting for them to say the first word.

        Shutting up after price was also what I trained myself to do.

        It got less stressful after a few episodes, people were accepting my asking price without me justifying it.

        I found I got a higher conversion at top price by saying "my clients are paying me x for
        something which is just like yours."

        That one line was a great objection obliterator
        and things went smoothly from there.

        I've said it before, running your own business and being in sales is the best form of personal development you face.

        Best,
        Ewen

        QUOTE=arfasaira;6573699]Another valuable insight Mark - love it!

        let me tell you something, sometimes even if you offer something of massive value, your own confidence and self belief can prevent you from really ever achieving what you truly want.

        This is an issue I struggled with for a VERY long time. I'm working very closely with a mentor right now and one of the things we are working on is mindset - this is such a crucial aspect of success.

        After one 2-hour session in which we totally dissected my business, I further refined my niche, identified where I deliver the most value, created a revenue roadmap for the next 12 months with my money goals defined and positioned the investments for my various services.

        Put it this way, everything I offer outside this forum has now jumped in price. At first, I found myself disagreeing with pricing issues, until my mentor gently but firmly pointed out that I was undercharging and selling myself short.

        She basically reminded me that I need to quit playing small and step up in a really big way - and this includes having the faith in myself to charge my worth.

        So for me now, it's a mindset issue. My mindset is starting to shift in the right direction and rather than fearing it, I should embrace it. I guess my own fear was that no-one would pay my asking price. But, as my mentor quite rightly pointed out - when your niche is highly specific, people CAN and WILL pay your worth.[/QUOTE]
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        • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
          In face to face sales I've been in the same situation as Ewen dozens of times.

          Ask the closing question - then shut up.

          It usually takes about 10 seconds for the client to reply but feels like an hour.


          One point to remember - usually everything is too expensive from the clients point of view (everything they buy for their business, from copy paper to staff costs, from their car to their insurances - it's always too expensive...)

          So, if they say "F*** that is very pricey"

          Always, always agree.

          "Yes it is", "I do understand", "That's a fair comment" etc. etc.


          Then point out the extraordinary value they get from you. All the unique benefits, service and expertise. Adding that spending less money - will actually cost them more.


          Say something like -

          "Yes, you could spend x dollars less, but the quality and response will be a lot poorer. Then you'll have to spend even more money to get the response you want. I don't won't you to lose money. My job is to make you money. So shall we go ahead and let me get to work and bring you the results with the boost in income and profits you really need?"

          Assuming the client has the money - and by using lots of empathy this close works about 95% of the time.


          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            I remember Mark Hughes the founder of Herbalife,
            a network marketing company that did 1.4 Billion $'s in a year,
            taught his hundreds of thousands of reps to say this one line after every objection...

            " I don't know about that, all I know is...[weight loss or health result story]
            followed by, "if for any reason it doesn't work for you, you get all your money back"

            The story would match the result your prospect wanted to achieve
            and you would say in closing to the story, "and you will too".

            If the prospect kept coming back with objections you were again taught to repeat the previous pitch again, word for word.

            A school girl used that same objection pitch to Mary Kay,
            and she bought.

            Best,
            Ewen
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            • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
              Yes, always offer a brilliant service/product which greatly benefits the client.

              Take away all the risk - if it doesn't work - they get all their money back.

              Selling at it's ultimate best.

              Perfect.


              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                Good to see you back Steve.

                Best,
                Ewen
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                • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
                  Thanks Ewen,

                  Off all the things to happen, I tripped and smashed my knee.

                  The hospital put a cast and two huge brackets on it - so sitting at a computer was errr a bit painful.

                  The consultant said - lets put a plate and screws in - 4 days in hospital with some fabulous nurses. And now it's a touch more possible to use the keyboards.

                  With the strong chance that if I ever walk through any security scanners the sirens will go off.

                  Looking forward to trying it (lol).


                  Steve
                  Signature
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                  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                    Look on the bright side Steve, it could've happened to me!...lol.

                    Seriously though, that sure sounds painful.

                    I haven't been through airport security since I had my plate screwed in to hold my arm in place...now that would be interesting.

                    Suppose while you were on your back, you were thinking
                    how you could use those nurses in a sales piece...no doubt?

                    Best,
                    Ewen


                    Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

                    Thanks Ewen,

                    Off all the things to happen, I tripped and smashed my knee.

                    The hospital put a cast and two huge brackets on it - so sitting at a computer was errr a bit painful.

                    The consultant said - lets put a plate and screws in - 4 days in hospital with some fabulous nurses. And now it's a touch more possible to use the keyboards.

                    With the strong chance that if I ever walk through any security scanners the sirens will go off.

                    Looking forward to trying it (lol).


                    Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
                      Yes, I've never concentrated on graphic design - but the nurses did help (lol)


                      Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                        Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

                        Yes, I've never concentrated on graphic design - but the nurses did help (lol)

                        Steve
                        Well you'll have to split test using an image of a nice nurse in an ad to record the response.

                        Recently John Carlton told a story to Brian Mac's group about an accountant
                        who ran a standard ad for his services and added a image of a nice lady.

                        Calls came in fast with the image.

                        There was no connection whatsoever between
                        his service offering to her.

                        He stopped running it, apparently because his wife objected to it,
                        not the extra business it bought in though!

                        Another classic Carlton story.

                        Best,
                        Ewen
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        • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
          Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          I remember when I was quoting prices for my offline services many years ago.

          I knew I had to breakthrough my fear and see what people were really
          willing to pay.

          This was done face to face, at their place, so it seemed more intimidating.

          Fortunately I had repeat business and leads coming in regularly,
          so if I didn't get the job, no dire consequences.

          Anyway, I used to work myself into such a state that my palms would sweat, my kness would shake and I'd mumble words out of my mouth that caused them to say,
          "What did you say"

          I didn't know whether it was because of the price, or couldn't hear what I said.

          I suspected it was the price.

          I made a point looking squarely in the eye when I said the price.
          then shut up...which at times seemed an eternity waiting for them to say the first word.

          Shutting up after price was also what I trained myself to do.

          It got less stressful after a few episodes, people were accepting my asking price without me justifying it.

          I found I got a higher conversion at top price by saying "my clients are paying me x for
          something which is just like yours."

          That one line was a great objection obliterator
          and things went smoothly from there.

          I've said it before, running your own business and being in sales is the best form of personal development you face.

          Best,
          Ewen
          Hey Ewen!

          You know, to this day, when I give a quote, I'm ALWAYS curious about people's responses. Keep in mind, I don't post testimonials or offer a portfolio (especially since most of my clients don't want me posting/taking credit for their copy.) Fortunately, most of my clients are referrals. But the ones who find me here or through a Google search don't know too much about me or what I've helped clients manifest.

          And yet, when I quote $5,000 for a sales letter and email sequence, like I did this morning to someone who found my Warrior for Hire letter, I always do well. And it definitely comes down to my mindset. In this case, I was excited about the market, his product and felt CONFIDENT I could help him make a lot of money, which came through and is the main reason I got the gig.

          He was also interested in mindset coaching, so it turned out to be an ideal situation for me.

          But I've had quite a few copywriters (from here) PM me, wondering how the hell I get relatively high-paying clients when I provide NO proof that I didn't just sprout up yesterday out of thin air.

          And here's what I've told them:

          I KNOW what I'm worth (even potential clients don't, yet.) And my confidence comes through when I give out my quotes.

          Integrity is also a component.

          I wouldn't give out a quote to someone if I did NOT feel like I could convert for them.

          That also comes through (in an energetic, woo-woo kind of way!)

          Anyway... I'm ranting... Thanks for the contribution to the thread dude!

          mark
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            It's very true about a businesses growth is always limited
            to the drivers thinking and beliefs.

            I was a shy kid at school and left school at the youngest legal age.

            Academic stuff just wasn't for me.

            Went and worked on farms for 17 years which further isolated me from people.

            Started reading books on marketing and investing.

            I knew this was what I wanted to do.

            I bought breeding deer as an investment but they dropped in value quickly.

            Next I got into network marketing.
            That was what got me out of working for someone else.
            Last position was livestock manager.
            Here's how bad that decision was,
            I cried while telling the owner I was leaving.

            3 years later I was bankrupt.

            I had bought 5 rental houses within 18 months.

            More personal development for me! lol.

            I continued to test my internal boundaries what I could do.

            Life can be like a laboratory
            where you are the mad scientist testing new theories.

            And it's most rewarding in business and marketing of businesses.

            Best,
            Ewen







            Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

            Hey Ewen!

            You know, to this day, when I give a quote, I'm ALWAYS curious about people's responses. Keep in mind, I don't post testimonials or offer a portfolio (especially since most of my clients don't want me posting/taking credit for their copy.) Fortunately, most of my clients are referrals. But the ones who find me here or through a Google search don't know too much about me or what I've helped clients manifest.

            And yet, when I quote $5,000 for a sales letter and email sequence, like I did this morning to someone who found my Warrior for Hire letter, I always do well. And it definitely comes down to my mindset. In this case, I was excited about the market, his product and felt CONFIDENT I could help him make a lot of money, which came through and is the main reason I got the gig.

            He was also interested in mindset coaching, so it turned out to be an ideal situation for me.

            But I've had quite a few copywriters (from here) PM me, wondering how the hell I get relatively high-paying clients when I provide NO proof that I didn't just sprout up yesterday out of thin air.

            And here's what I've told them:

            I KNOW what I'm worth (even potential clients don't, yet.) And my confidence comes through when I give out my quotes.

            Integrity is also a component.

            I wouldn't give out a quote to someone if I did NOT feel like I could convert for them.

            That also comes through (in an energetic, woo-woo kind of way!)

            Anyway... I'm ranting... Thanks for the contribution to the thread dude!

            mark
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
        Originally Posted by arfasaira View Post

        Another valuable insight Mark - love it!

        let me tell you something, sometimes even if you offer something of massive value, your own confidence and self belief can prevent you from really ever achieving what you truly want.
        Hey Arfa!

        This post was actually the result of my wife coaching me (through her numerology) on regaining my confidence.

        I've been REALLY struggling lately because the two ebooks I'm working on just are NOT coming together...

        ...and it brought up all of my nay-saying fears and old limiting beliefs that say, "Who do you think you are? You're a 4th grade drop out!"

        One of the things I personally struggle with is distilling all the information floating through my head into a applicable message. I do it well for clients, but often struggle when I apply tangibility to my own stuff (or post here.)

        So she (my wife) helped me understand how to take my abstract way of thinking and make it easier for people to follow (based on my numbers.) This post (as an exercise) was the result.

        Yesterday I also started mindset coaching for people - so they can get the most out of whatever copy they have (regardless of who wrote it.)

        I started doing it because of exactly what you said: You can offer a ridiculous amount of value to people, but if your mindset holds you back, you won't be able to ask for (or receive) the fees you more than deserve.

        I integrated the deliberate tangibility (that I struggle with applying) in the session. The woman I coached emailed me this morning (after doing the exercise I gave multiple times) and she gushed over all the breakthroughs she was having. It helped my confidence tremendously...

        ...and my client writing has been flowing so effortlessly that I my fingers can hardly keep up.

        It's amazing how necessary confidence is to really tap into your REAL talent and value.

        mark
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  • Profile picture of the author KingOfContentMarketing
    This is one reason you need a powerful, consistent, automatic leads machine. Many times people fumble the price question when they really need or want any particular deal.

    You are more relaxed about every negotiation when you know you'll be talking to other, possibly better clients on the next call.

    Your systems should also weed out many price shoppers before you even talk to them.

    "I mean whatever happens, your toes are still tappin'. Now when you got that, then you have the attitude."
    - Mike Damone
    Fast Times at Ridgemont High
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    - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author Anthony Gibson
    Great thread! All of the points I was eager to touch on have already been brought up haha so I just want to show my appreciation for sharing your wisdom! All of you!
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  • Profile picture of the author BrentDotCom
    I despise breaking price points. I have an offline business where occasionally a guy will quote a job at, say, $2,034. WTF is that? Of course, if you find yourself having to ever give money back, $100 goes a lot further than $95.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Thank you to the following copywriters...

      Mark Pescetti, Mike Humphreys, Arfa Saira, Rick Duris, Daniel Scott and one or two others I've inadvertently missed out mentioning.

      You were all right. And me? I was wrong. I admit it.

      Thought I was doing a good deed offering up my copywriting skills falsely thinking (and defending my position too) offering my copywriting skills on the cheap.

      A terrible business mistake. Over 31 years in business and they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Well, this old dog has had to bite the bullet. Admit that he was wrong. And this old dog needs to readjust his thinking. Now. Why?...

      Because I miss myself - that's why. I miss being me. Thinking positively. Loving copywriting with every fibre of my soul. Doing my best by other people. Which cheap doesn't allow you to do.

      And where does the fault lie? Solely with me. I take full responsibility for my actions.

      Offering cheap copywriting services is fatal. A recipe for disaster. Doing so will rob you of your copywriting and business soul. When I think back to when I started copywriting, my fees quickly escalated from charging a mere couple hundred bucks to near $3,000 per sales letter within 6 months plus royalties.

      Then I had this crazy, crazy, crazy idea to lower my fees again thinking the recession, the market couldn't afford my rates. And my self esteem subsequently took a massive blow. Not blaming anybody else but myself. Almost kicking myself here now for being so friggin' stupid. To be honest, I feel like a right prized prat of the highest degree thinking lowering my fees was the way to continue pulling in more orders. What a complete and utter tosser!

      What I didn't realize and coming from me, I should have known was that charging less says a great deal about one's own perceived value. And of course, slapping myself upside the bloody forehead... the signal this thinking sent out about the perceived value I placed on the value of each of my clients or potential clients.

      By charging less, I was in fact insulting their intelligence, their personal sense of self worth. I cringe now at thinking about this utterly daft maneuver.

      Here I was on the inside thinking... I'm doing others a favor by charging less. Oh man sometimes... sometimes I just can't believe how stupid I am. Well, better late than never I guess coming to my senses.

      From the trenches of not charging enough, if there is a lesson here for any copywriting newbies who have good skills when it comes to salesmanship-in-print, let me tell you this...

      ...for sadly so, I'm well qualified in sheer 'stupidity' to tell you straight up what a fatal flaw this is in your thinking if you position your value, the value you bring to the table by thinking / charging less will get you where you want to be in the future. It's bloody folly. Do not like me shoot yourself in the foot.

      When you charge less than you're worth the natural laws of the universe you are in actual fact working against their natural order. You're trying to force an issue which shouldn't be taking place. Perpetuating a lie unto yourself. And when you lie to yourself about your sense of worth...

      ...you also end up lying to the very clients you want to help. And you can't help them because these clients are now out of your reach for in contradiction to yourself charging less than you're worth...

      ...the very clients you could be helping out most, won't now touch you with a bargepole because they know you don't value yourself first, therefore... how can you truly value their business when you don't respect you?

      Think about it.

      I know this may seem complicated to some here but to most experienced copywriters here who really understand their worth and have the self esteem and self respect which go with this way of thinking, they'll know exactly where I'm coming from.

      Bloody hell, this copywriting malarkey - what a blinkin' kerfuffle. If I'd known my personality would cause me this much grief with these self imposed obstacles I've been intent on hurling into my path ahead of sight, with hindsight... I'd never have gone down this route in the first place.

      Oh well, I'm getting there slowly I guess.

      Better stop rabbiting on, otherwise I'll be talking non-stop all night.

      Thanks guys for listening and to the copywriters mentioned at the outset, a massive amount of appreciation. Thanks for helping me to readjust my false reasoning. You guys (and Arfa Saira) are gold.

      Warmest regards,


      Mark Andrews
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
        Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

        Thank you to the following copywriters...

        Mark Pescetti, Mike Humphreys, Arfa Saira, Rick Duris, Daniel Scott and one or two others I've inadvertently missed out mentioning.

        You were all right. And me? I was wrong. I admit it.

        Thought I was doing a good deed offering up my copywriting skills falsely thinking (and defending my position too) offering my copywriting skills on the cheap.

        A terrible business mistake. Over 31 years in business and they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Well, this old dog has had to bite the bullet. Admit that he was wrong. And this old dog needs to readjust his thinking. Now. Why?...

        Because I miss myself - that's why. I miss being me. Thinking positively. Loving copywriting with every fibre of my soul. Doing my best by other people. Which cheap doesn't allow you to do.

        And where does the fault lie? Solely with me. I take full responsibility for my actions.

        Offering cheap copywriting services is fatal. A recipe for disaster. Doing so will rob you of your copywriting and business soul. When I think back to when I started copywriting, my fees quickly escalated from charging a mere couple hundred bucks to near $3,000 per sales letter within 6 months plus royalties.

        Then I had this crazy, crazy, crazy idea to lower my fees again thinking the recession, the market couldn't afford my rates. And my self esteem subsequently took a massive blow. Not blaming anybody else but myself. Almost kicking myself here now for being so friggin' stupid. To be honest, I feel like a right prized prat of the highest degree thinking lowering my fees was the way to continue pulling in more orders. What a complete and utter tosser!

        What I didn't realize and coming from me, I should have known was that charging less says a great deal about one's own perceived value. And of course, slapping myself upside the bloody forehead... the signal this thinking sent out about the perceived value I placed on the value of each of my clients or potential clients.

        By charging less, I was in fact insulting their intelligence, their personal sense of self worth. I cringe now at thinking about this utterly daft maneuver.

        Here I was on the inside thinking... I'm doing others a favor by charging less. Oh man sometimes... sometimes I just can't believe how stupid I am. Well, better late than never I guess coming to my senses.

        From the trenches of not charging enough, if there is a lesson here for any copywriting newbies who have good skills when it comes to salesmanship-in-print, let me tell you this...

        ...for sadly so, I'm well qualified in sheer 'stupidity' to tell you straight up what a fatal flaw this is in your thinking if you position your value, the value you bring to the table by thinking / charging less will get you where you want to be in the future. It's bloody folly. Do not like me shoot yourself in the foot.

        When you charge less than you're worth the natural laws of the universe you are in actual fact working against their natural order. You're trying to force an issue which shouldn't be taking place. Perpetuating a lie unto yourself. And when you lie to yourself about your sense of worth...

        ...you also end up lying to the very clients you want to help. And you can't help them because these clients are now out of your reach for in contradiction to yourself charging less than you're worth...

        ...the very clients you could be helping out most, won't now touch you with a bargepole because they know you don't value yourself first, therefore... how can you truly value their business when you don't respect you?

        Think about it.

        I know this may seem complicated to some here but to most experienced copywriters here who really understand their worth and have the self esteem and self respect which go with this way of thinking, they'll know exactly where I'm coming from.

        Bloody hell, this copywriting malarkey - what a blinkin' kerfuffle. If I'd known my personality would cause me this much grief with these self imposed obstacles I've been intent on hurling into my path ahead of sight, with hindsight... I'd never have gone down this route in the first place.

        Oh well, I'm getting there slowly I guess.

        Better stop rabbiting on, otherwise I'll be talking non-stop all night.

        Thanks guys for listening and to the copywriters mentioned at the outset, a massive amount of appreciation. Thanks for helping me to readjust my false reasoning. You guys (and Arfa Saira) are gold.

        Warmest regards,


        Mark Andrews
        Great post Mark.

        And I totally believe the moment you acknowledge the self-imposed obstacles and limiting beliefs you allow to dictate your decisions, they immediately begin to dissolve.

        I appreciate the raw, real emotion you just expressed.

        Amazing things are on the horizon for you.

        You've made people so much money that there should be a line out the door of new prospects waiting to invest thousands in your talents.

        Watch them show up now.

        Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author satish4321
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    • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
      Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post


      Thought I was doing a good deed offering up my copywriting skills falsely thinking (and defending my position too) offering my copywriting skills on the cheap.

      ...for sadly so, I'm well qualified in sheer 'stupidity' to tell you straight up what a fatal flaw this is in your thinking if you position your value, the value you bring to the table by thinking / charging less will get you where you want to be in the future. It's bloody folly. Do not like me shoot yourself in the foot.

      When you charge less than you're worth the natural laws of the universe you are in actual fact working against their natural order. You're trying to force an issue which shouldn't be taking place. Perpetuating a lie unto yourself. And when you lie to yourself about your sense of worth...

      ...you also end up lying to the very clients you want to help. And you can't help them because these clients are now out of your reach for in contradiction to yourself charging less than you're worth...

      ...the very clients you could be helping out most, won't now touch you with a bargepole because they know you don't value yourself first, therefore... how can you truly value their business when you don't respect you?

      Think about it.

      I know this may seem complicated to some here but to most experienced copywriters here who really understand their worth and have the self esteem and self respect which go with this way of thinking, they'll know exactly where I'm coming from.
      Don't be so hard on yourself Mark - at least you've realized where your mistake is and that's a huge step forward for your business now.

      You have to know and trust that God, the universe, whatever it is you believe has infinite abundance and wants you to do well MORE than you do - you just have to find a way to receive it.

      We all have gifts and talents which we need to align with others who are willing to pay our worth. And as you say, if you don't charge your worth, what are you saying about yourself?

      Part of being a good entrepreneur (well, that's what we are right?) is knowing where to be frugal - and no, it's not in what we charge others!

      The fact is, higher paying clients will respect you MORE and will be far easier to work with than lower paying clients. I've found that when I was charging too little, I'd get clients who were nit-picking, moaning and playing the blame game if things didn't go to plan.

      And you have to remember that we offer a service to our clients - how well do you think you can serve your clients if you aren't being paid your worth?

      When your clients invest in your services at a higher price point, you deliver quality and value rather than worry about the quantity or endless smaller deadlines. I'd MUCH rather have a 20 clients pay me $5000 for a letter than 200 clients pay me $500.

      It's just exhausting.

      Good for you for acknowledging where you've been struggling - I tell you what, it takes courage to admit that.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
        Originally Posted by arfasaira View Post

        You have to know and trust that God, the universe, whatever it is you believe has infinite abundance and wants you to do well MORE than you do - you just have to find a way to receive it.
        You know Arfa...

        ...This is one of the most misunderstood truths in human history.

        Part of my mindset/copywriting coaching is about teaching people their Natural State is being infinitely abundant. (You have to obscure your natural state with limiting beliefs, judgments and stories to be poor.)

        It can be extremely hard to believe, because there's so much lack surrounding all of us.

        Equally though...

        There's so much ABUNDANCE constantly slapping us in the face - TRYING TO GET OUR BLOODY ATTENTION!

        The problem is...

        People can become so utterly seduced by their fears that they keep recreating everything they don't want. They're always pointing to the circumstances that prove themselves (and their limiting beliefs) right.

        The key, especially if you're in the marketing game, is to approach EVERYTHING you do with the confidence that it WILL absolutely succeed and flourish.

        I've discovered when my copywriting clients adopt that attitude (by REALLY feeling it,) their campaigns are infinitely more successful than when they're just counting on me to wave a magic wand and create abundance for them.

        In other words...

        When they participate, collaborate and use their projects as a way to acknowledge and let go of whatever sabotaging traits they have about receiving large amounts of money...

        ...more money flows in.

        Likewise...

        When you (as the copywriter) can confidently charge what you're worth, and not base your fees on the economy or the competition, you'll find yourself inundated with ideal clients.

        The key there is IDEAL clients.

        I always affirm there are plenty of clients who want to work specifically with me, have plentiful budgets to appreciate my talents and receive tremendous value for their investment.

        mark
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        • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
          Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

          The key there is IDEAL clients.

          I always affirm there are plenty of clients who want to work specifically with me, have plentiful budgets to appreciate my talents and receive tremendous value for their investment.
          To find your prince, you gotta kiss a lotta frogs.

          - Rick Duris
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            To hell with this nebulous stuff about "charging what you are worth".

            Here's a test to tell if your guru is blowing smoke up your,
            you know where...

            can a 10 year old understand it?

            Now that's out of the way,
            lets get into some nitty gritty actionable stuff.

            Just charge more than you have done before.

            It's your own beliefs that are telling what the market will bear.

            Let the market tell you what price it will bear.

            Bob Fifer the author of the book title
            "Double Your Profits In 6 Months Or Less"
            said a university professor had his students come back with a pricing formula
            for a product. Next morning he got students to tell him what it was.

            After they cited all their formulas he said they were all wrong.

            He said it was what the market will bear.
            And the only way you will find out what the ceiling is,
            keep testing at higher price points.

            Be like a Taoist and have no mental attachment to the response you get.

            Best,
            Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by arfasaira View Post

        Don't be so hard on yourself Mark - at least you've realized where your mistake is and that's a huge step forward for your business now.

        You have to know and trust that God, the universe, whatever it is you believe has infinite abundance and wants you to do well MORE than you do - you just have to find a way to receive it.

        We all have gifts and talents which we need to align with others who are willing to pay our worth. And as you say, if you don't charge your worth, what are you saying about yourself?

        Part of being a good entrepreneur (well, that's what we are right?) is knowing where to be frugal - and no, it's not in what we charge others!

        The fact is, higher paying clients will respect you MORE and will be far easier to work with than lower paying clients. I've found that when I was charging too little, I'd get clients who were nit-picking, moaning and playing the blame game if things didn't go to plan.

        And you have to remember that we offer a service to our clients - how well do you think you can serve your clients if you aren't being paid your worth?

        When your clients invest in your services at a higher price point, you deliver quality and value rather than worry about the quantity or endless smaller deadlines. I'd MUCH rather have a 20 clients pay me $5000 for a letter than 200 clients pay me $500.

        It's just exhausting.

        Good for you for acknowledging where you've been struggling - I tell you what, it takes courage to admit that.
        Very touching and very wise...
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Sometimes, it helps to remember...


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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Good point.

      Concise, simple, driven home.

      I understand you Rick. Point taken.

      Kindly,


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author rjweaver10
    I loved reading this thread because I think it's important to charge what you're worth. Too many times people make us feel as though we are not worth out experience. I write the best for clients who truly love my writing. Not that they need to shower me with compliments, but when they let me know that I'm doing a good job for them, it like, super speeds up my confidence and makes me an awesome writer.

    I believe in charging what your worth because otherwise, no one will take you seriously.
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  • Profile picture of the author VHSEOMike
    Great tips. Many newbies are very nervous about the price. They will be greatly benefited from this EFFECTIVE thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author awundrin
    I've been tempted to lower my rates during 'dry spells' but never have. It can be tough at times to get paid what you're worth. Great thread!
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    Like Gary Bencivenga says... if you want to melt away price resistance... increase the desire for what you're offering.

    so, find out what they want and then prove you can help them get it. build up the desire for what you have... that's one way to decrease the resistance to your price.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
      Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      Like Gary Bencivenga says... if you want to melt away price resistance... increase the desire for what you're offering.

      so, find out what they want and then prove you can help them get it. build up the desire for what you have... that's one way to decrease the resistance to your price.
      I was talking with a client yesterday who used to be a massage therapist. She lives in New Jersey.

      She said when they reached the "how to market yourself" part of the copywriting course, the teacher urged them to price their services low...

      ...because of how much competition existed.

      She said she charged $60 an hour.

      She also expressed how charging that little for the amount of value, benefit and energy her clients received didn't FEEL good.

      So instead of overcoming her limiting beliefs about money (instead choosing to listen to everyone else and get burnt out,) she quit the business.

      What's sad is...

      She still has a lot of passion for helping people with their bodies.

      When I explained that only SHE can determine her value and set her prices accordingly, I can tell it made her feel uncomfortable...

      ...it also made her question whether or not she REALLY was worth it.

      My point is...

      It's amazing how our relationship with money can compel us to stop pursuing our passions, out of fear of not being good enough.

      Here's a woman who could be HUGELY impacting people's lives (and making a fantastic income to boot,) but instead of learning how to communicate her value and set a price that make her FEEL appreciated...

      ...she quit.

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

        It's amazing how our relationship with money can compel us to stop pursuing our passions, out of fear of not being good enough.
        I take a different thing away from your story.

        I don't believe it had ANYTHING to do with money. I believe it had to do with self worth.

        She didn't value herself.

        Sounds like self help 101, but: If you don't value yourself, how can you expect anyone else to value you? It doesn't matter what the medium of exchange is. Love, money, fame, attention, significance.

        If you have a low self worth, you'll expect little in return. Literally. And it's a circular reference. Being paid low only reinforces the low self worth.

        - Dr. Rick

        PS: That's why I like displays of egos on this forum. I think it's healthy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
          Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

          I take a different thing away from your story.

          I don't it had ANYTHING to do with money. I believe it had to do with self worth.

          She didn't value herself.

          Sounds like self help 101, but: If you don't value yourself, how can you expect anyone else to value you? It doesn't matter what the medium of exchange is. Love, money, fame, attention, significance.

          If you have a low self worth, you'll expect little in return. Literally. And it's a circular reference. Being paid low only reinforces the low self worth.

          - Dr. Rick

          PS: That's why I like displays of egos on this forum. I think it's healthy.
          It's entanglement.

          She didn't believe in (or value) her assets enough to charge what she's worth.

          Her lack of confidence and low self-worth was exponentially magnified by taking part in the belief she couldn't charge higher rates.

          So she attracted (or created) clients who had an emotional charge on price (and made her feel like they better get the best massage EVER... or else!)

          That made her try harder (to do more effective work,) making her feel less appreciated, and ultimately, under-valued.

          Is that self-worth?

          Yes.

          But it's based on scarcity thinking.

          Instead of acknowledging how amazing she was and realizing her value (and the value of charging WAY more money per hour...)

          ...she succumbed to her self-imposed limitations.

          It's interesting...

          I've worked with clients who doubled their rates (for services) and attracted an entirely different clientele.

          Much like Shawn Lebrun said in http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...r-budget.html:

          the letters i've gotten paid $5,000 to $10,000 were some
          of the best clients i've ever had the pleasure of working with.

          the letters i used to write for $1,000 or less... those were the
          most problem clients.
          I can personally testify that when you raise your rates and ask for what you believe your worth, your confidence and self-esteem elevates (if you work through the discomfort.)

          And now you're positioned to experience a totally different breed of clients.

          The same can be true if you're selling a product...

          ...but it's more subjective.

          Mark

          P.S. When I did massage/bodywork, I started out by charging $60 an hour, like her. In my last couple of years, I charged $150 + any extra time I spent counseling them on their bodies (and emotions.) I did just two a day with a $300 overhead. And I had a beautiful office with bamboo murals painted on my walls, fountains going... the works. My clients got amazing experiences, received exactly what their body needed (in that moment) and there was NEVER any weird energy when they paid me...

          ...Because I had NO CHARGE about what I was worth.

          I didn't try harder when I charged more.

          I knew I always did a good job and blew away what everything else on town did.

          I apply the same mindset in my copywriting biz.

          P.P.S. I agree with you about the egos here. It's a blast.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Hill
    I hope others will recognize the value that is in this thread. It's solid advice from the trenches that could make a huge difference in lifetime earnings for many people.

    Although it's been mentioned in various ways here, in my experience one point to keep in mind is that many people think "my clients would never pay more" and they base their prices on their existing clientele. The thing is, they need better clients.

    As Ewen points out, the market will ultimately determine a cap rate - but there are also levels of clients with different cap rates. With confidence in what you offer (and the ability to deliver accordingly), it's easy enough to go up the ranks in client quality. The new normal becomes much higher.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by Steve Hill View Post

      it's easy enough to go up the ranks in client quality. The new normal becomes much higher.
      Great point Steve.

      I use to do it ruthlessly in past businesses I built and sold.

      Having a strong lead generation system and strong retention
      of clients, it made it easy for me to sack poor performing clients.

      I'd grade them and the bottom would get the boot.

      I found that they were filling up space that could of been taken
      by those that pay top rates, are pleasant to deal with and pay on time.

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author KingOfContentMarketing
    This discussion reminds me of new public speakers. New speakers are often reluctant to charge healthy fees. I tell them that their corporate clients will spend over $50,000 just on LIQUOR for a conference. It puts a $5,000 keynote fee in perspective and makes it easier for them to ask for their value.

    In terms of internet marketing or corporate clients, they are spending way, way more than your copywriting fee on other parts of their marketing mix. Ask for your value and get it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    So I was going to write a new thread about price point.

    But I remembered talking about it before.

    Thank god for the search tool.

    Anyway...

    I just had two really intense experiences with clients who were struggling to put a price on the value they are providing.

    One client has a product that is in a sense, priceless.

    What I mean is...

    The impact his product can create in people's lives is rather extraordinary.

    It's totally original.

    No competition.

    Well, there is.

    But nothing touches it.

    However...

    It doesn't make people money.

    It doesn't make people healthier.

    It's just a blueprint, of sorts, that can help make its target prospect... happier.

    He asked me, "how can we price something that's so intangible?"

    We talked how the self help/self development industry makes billions of dollars.

    People are willing to pay big bucks - even if what they receive only makes them FEEL better for a short, short.

    How much is that worth?

    Well...

    We decided on $97.

    Could we get more?

    Yes.

    Here's the thing:

    Rick Duris touched upon this before (I'm not sure if it was this thread or another one...)

    Write like you're selling a high end product...

    ...even if its just a $47 WSO.

    My take?

    When you're selling ANYTHING...

    You get to determine how much value you communicate.

    And you get to determine the amount of money the value you've built up is worth.

    Stop over-thinking.

    Mark

    P.S. It's always interesting to me to watch people go back and forth within themselves about the price point. It really exposes their financial beliefs.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisnos
    My mindset is:

    "What would I feel happy paying for my own products when I needed this advice/was suffering with the problems my product solves, and what would I be more than happy to pay (even if it's $200+)"... then I think, "how do I go about communicating something like, for example, an iPad you could buy would cost $500, be outdated in less than one year, and the results, happiness, and transformation you get from this program will be MUCH more powerful and meaningful, and will last FOREVER."

    How much people are willing to pay is not about the product, but before the sale is about the PERCEPTION of how much the product is worth in comparison to the contrast of the change in results it will create in their lives, and how much money they spend on much less meaningful things.
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