60 replies
First of all, thank you everyone for your answers. You guys/gals are awesome.

What is the better headline?

Secrets of Figure Drawing: How to Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist.
Would you like to know how to draw the human figure like a master artist?
#headline
  • Profile picture of the author Thomas W
    if i had to pick either those two.. then it will be #1
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  • Profile picture of the author adsense786
    first one catchy
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  • Profile picture of the author tooAlive
    First one has more sex appeal.
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    • Profile picture of the author newrock
      Originally Posted by tooAlive View Post

      First one has more sex appeal.
      The first one has a strong sense...
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  • Profile picture of the author mobapp
    I would like to go for second one
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    • Profile picture of the author Nicole7575
      Let your list decide! Split test them? ( personally my vote would be for the 1st one )
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  • Profile picture of the author USA
    The first one without a doubt.
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  • Thanks everyone. I also like the first one. I should split test, but I don't really know how to go about that yet.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

    First of all, thank you everyone for your answers. You guys/gals are awesome.

    What is the better headline?

    Secrets of Figure Drawing: How to Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist.
    Would you like to know how to draw the human figure like a master artist?
    Single benefit "How To" headlines don't work very well in saturated markets.

    If you want people to read past your headline, you'll need to come up with something much stronger.

    To make your headline better add strong curiosity to it. ("Secrets of" is fairly tame.)

    Or add emotion.

    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author ScottGordon
    I'd go with a revision of #1
    Something like:
    "Discover the 7 Secrets of Figure-Drawing -- Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist."

    I try to build the "call to action" right into the headline. This one has 2 "commands" -- "discover" and "draw". It's telling them what to do at the same time it's giving them the benefits. I find these type headlines stronger.

    Adding the "7" just adds specificity.

    But, as others have said: test. We in the forum can guess all day which one is best. Only the marketplace knows. (You can test pretty quickly and cheaply with some PPC or, if you have a big list, by doing a split test with the subject line.)

    Please let us know what the result is.
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    • Profile picture of the author madelyndon
      Originally Posted by ScottGordon View Post

      I'd go with a revision of #1
      Something like:
      "Discover the 7 Secrets of Figure-Drawing -- Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist."

      I try to build the "call to action" right into the headline. This one has 2 "commands" -- "discover" and "draw". It's telling them what to do at the same time it's giving them the benefits. I find these type headlines stronger.

      Adding the "7" just adds specificity.

      But, as others have said: test. We in the forum can guess all day which one is best. Only the marketplace knows. (You can test pretty quickly and cheaply with some PPC or, if you have a big list, by doing a split test with the subject line.)

      Please let us know what the result is.

      Go with what he suggested, it is really good. It makes you think, "wow only 7 steps and I could be a master?" Where as, the second one you have there, makes it seem impossible. I would think it would be too much work, but 7 steps hey, I would give it a try.
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      • Not that keen on 'Master Artist" - could you use a famous artist name(s) - best if they are a long gone - so you don't run the possibility of being sued.

        Also "Human Figure" is not very alluring - any chance of a different phrase?

        If I had to choose I prefer the first - but you should split test.

        Also (particulary if you're targeting an audience who don't draw, but would like to) make it easy - put in a time element.

        ...easily in less than 5 days

        ...easily in under 25 mins a day

        You get the idea.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Huy Phan
    First. It's direct and tells the reader what to expect from the product. The second could be an opening line for your sales page.
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  • Profile picture of the author 1robert
    The second headline does nothing for me, but the first is a good place to start.

    Honestly, what you need to do here is write another 30 or so headlines and then ask which one is the best here on the forum.

    You'll be surprised how much better your headlines start to sound when you write more than a dozen.
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  • Profile picture of the author equal
    "Discover the 7 Secrets of Figure-Drawing -- Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist." looks really good. I've got almost no interest in drawing but if it's only 7 secrets I would like to read about it and maybe learn how to draw!
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  • Profile picture of the author aussienet12
    First one!

    Secrets of Figure Drawing: How to Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamieCW777
    The first one, without a shadow of a doubt.
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  • Discover the 7 secrets to figure drawing: Draw figures like Leonardo da Vinci
    Scott, great idea. I revised it a bit with some other advice. Or maybe ...

    Discover the 7 secrets of figure drawing: Draw awesome figures in less than 30 days.

    I can't say 5 days. That is just not possible. 30 days or less happens, though.
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    • Yea I realise 5 days is a bit too quick.

      But I wouldn't say 30 days - it sounds too long.

      If it can be done in less use that number.

      But be honest.

      Steve


      P.S. Don't worry about me - but bung a "thanks" (use the button) for the people that helped you with their ideas and comments - they'll appreciate it.

      And chances are they'll keep helping you.
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  • It is done by some in two weeks, so I guess I could use that.

    I was thinking ...

    Discover 7 Secrets to Figure Drawing. Draw Awesome Figures in 2 Weeks.
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  • "Discover...The super simple 7 step figure drawing formula... that turns amateurs into pros within 2 weeks flat!"

    Or if you dont have 7 steps...

    "Discover...The little known figure drawing formula... that turns amateurs into pros within 2 weeks flat!"
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

    First of all, thank you everyone for your answers. You guys/gals are awesome.

    What is the better headline?

    Secrets of Figure Drawing: How to Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist.
    Would you like to know how to draw the human figure like a master artist?
    I would guess the first one, but my guess is irrelevant. Split test them.
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    "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
    ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author WinstonTian
    The term "figure drawing" does not mean anything to your reader.
    If you don't start from what they know, you won't go anywhere.

    Start from there.

    Winston Tian
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    Cheers,
    Winston
    The Beginner's Doctor

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  • Profile picture of the author mlab
    The 7 Secrets Of Drawing Human Figures like a Master Artist
    Draw Like A Master Artist In Just 30 Days
    The 7 Secrets Of Drawing Human Figures That Anyone Can Use
    How To Draw Human Figures Like A Master Artist
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  • Profile picture of the author rajeevsh
    Think of a few more and ... test, test, test!

    [I like the first one, by the way!]
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  • Discover 7 Secrets to Figure Drawing: Draw Awesome Figures in Two Weeks

    So far, this headline has increased my page views over the following headline

    Discover 7 Secrets to Figure Drawing: Draw Awesome Figures in Less than a Month.

    It's amazing how much difference that small change has made. Like a 30% increase.


    In the last 4 days, about 200 people visited the page Link to page

    6 people purchased, so I guess about a 3% conversion rate so far, if I did the math correctly.

    My sales copy must be okay then. I am sure I can improve it, and thus raise conversion rates. I need more data first anyway to see what my conversion rates really are.
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  • Profile picture of the author aroth
    TBH not a fan of either but confined to the two choices I'd pick number 1.
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  • Aroth, out of curiosity, what kind of headline would you write for this product?

    I have another 20 hour course on drawing heads and faces. I want to use a different kind of headline other than secrets.
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  • Profile picture of the author crazman
    I would stay with the 'Discover 7 Secrets' headline if it seem to be working for you
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  • Profile picture of the author centurion81
    the first one definitely...much catchier and flows better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Abo Yossi
    Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

    First of all, thank you everyone for your answers. You guys/gals are awesome.

    What is the better headline?

    Secrets of Figure Drawing: How to Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist.
    Would you like to know how to draw the human figure like a master artist?
    I will choose the first one, I think it is more catchy................
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
      Hi Neil,

      I followed the link you put at your #28 reply and found your existing headline good. I don't want to appear smart ass, but please allow me to comment two things.

      Firstly, in your headline you use a colon to separate the two headline parts. I observed that if I see a colon between two phrase, it makes me stop and wait for the listing. A colon informs readers that something more is coming along, generally a list.

      While conversely, if I see dashes between the two phrase I also stop but in other meaning. Dashes tells me (the reader) to get ready for some important or dramatic statement which reinforce the first phrase.

      You know, I read several thousands sales letter so far, apart from that I also wrote a few. They sold $7 worth of product just like $7000 worth of coaching product. They're used dashes in the headline in most cases -- when the headline claimed.

      My second observation applies to Tim's testimonial. Seems to me that it mergings with the environment, so hard to detect. I'd consider to highlight it to be more noticeable.

      You need to know, I'm an outsider. You probably have a reason to use a colon. But, as others mentioned, a test could tell the difference in the conversion.

      Many successes,

      Sandor
      Signature

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  • Sandor, thank you. I like the em-dash better as well. I saw the colon on some headlines, which is why I went with it, but after much more study, I see it's not as psychologically pleasing as an em-dash or even an eplisis.

    I also altered the headline to be much more emotional. I think.

    Discover the 7 Hottest Secrets of Figure Drawing--
    Draw Remarkable Figures in Two Weeks

    I think those two words make a big difference and impact. Hottest and remarkable.

    I am not infusing my copy with these types of words. Changing things like great to remarkable or fantastic, etc.

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  • You do need your copy to be congruent with your headline.

    The "hot" headline seems to indicate a type of drawing that your target audience may not be considering (then again they might - but will be disappointed if they don't get the explicit details in the "pitch").


    Steve
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  • Yeah, but it is hottest secrets and not hottest figure drawings. I could change it to ultimate. I don't want to make females feel like the course is not for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
      Hi Neil,

      While I observed the changes, a thought occurred to me. You know surely that we write headlines to people besides search engines. In this respect a shorter headline is better.

      Thus, I shortened your headline like this:

      "7 Tips On How to Succeed in Drawing Remarkable Figures in Two Weeks".

      By analyzing the new headline, we can identify more things:


      - Less words in one line - easier to read than two lines.

      - The fluency of the sentence is not interrupted in this variation.

      - "Tips" type headlines converts well, the same applies to the number 7 too.

      - People want 'to succeed" - who shouldn't? So that is a hook.

      - You can detect the two benefit ('Remarkable' and 'in Two Weeks') earlier than at the end of the second line.

      - This variation has a higher emotional marketing value than your two lined headline. (Tested by a headline analyzer.)


      Of course, this is just my thought. But when you are experimenting, maybe you could try this too. As you know, test, test, test ...

      Cheers,

      Sandor
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  • Profile picture of the author TerranceCharles
    I would def say #1 for sure. You may want to add to it like a benefit like for example. Secrets of Figure Drawing: How to Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist without having to.... <--(State the problem most figure drawers have.)
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  • Profile picture of the author justinkemp99
    The first one is better, I have improved it :-

    Instead of using:-

    Secrets of Figure Drawing: How to Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist.

    Use:-

    How to Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist: Figure Drawing Secrets


    This would help the user to find an instant answer and the clickthrough rate would increase.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    "Revealed - 7 Tips To Dominate Figure Drawing in 2 Weeks!"

    When I test headlines I try to test them with small changes and large changes. Sometimes a whole new headline can make a huge difference.
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  • It's true, even one word can make a difference. My click through rate dropped after I altered it to hottest secrets, so I removed the word hottest.

    Discover the 7 Secrets of Figure Drawing--Draw Remarkable Figures in Two Weeks.

    I left remarkable to repalce awesome. I will see how this does, then try another. I like

    7 Tips On How to Succeed in Drawing Remarkable Figures in Two Weeks

    But I might change it to

    Click here to Discover the 7 Secrets on How to Draw Remarkable Figures in Just two weeks!

    I want to try a call to action right in the headline.

    I thought of one more I might try.

    Discover How You Can be a Pro Figure Drawer for under $20.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      ... I like

      7 Tips On How to Succeed in Drawing Remarkable Figures in Two Weeks

      But I might change it to

      Click here to Discover the 7 Secrets on How to Draw Remarkable Figures in Just two weeks!

      I want to try a call to action right in the headline.

      I thought of one more I might try.

      Discover How You Can be a Pro Figure Drawer for under $20.
      Okay Neil!

      How about this one:

      Reserve now -- Discover Today How You Can be a Pro Figure Drawer for under $20.

      Don't delay please! The special price is due to expire Sept. 29th.

      Many successes,


      Sandor


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  • Profile picture of the author moreymcmb
    The first one is better, but you can add to it:

    "Secrets of Figure Drawing that REALLY WORK: How to Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist."
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  • Profile picture of the author jurkhenry9
    Hi

    No doubt I found the 1st one good:Secrets of Figure Drawing: How to Draw the Human Figure like a Master Artist.
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  • Reserve now -- Discover Today How You Can be a Pro Figure Drawer for under $20.

    I like this. I will test it too, but I'm going to change pro into succussful as that is more powerful.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      Reserve now -- Discover Today How You Can be a Pro Figure Drawer for under $20.

      I like this. I will test it too, but I'm going to change pro into succussful as that is more powerful.
      Hi Neil,

      Understand. Putting our heads together we can hit something. Test will tell which is better.

      Anyway, I'm glad if I can help you in something.

      Best,

      Sandor
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  • Profile picture of the author CashReview
    The first is much better in my opinion, but yeah, split testing is the only way to figure out the "real" answer...
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  • Profile picture of the author dlkiefer
    Hello masterpaintingnow,

    I like the newest Headline the best and I hope you are getting better conversions!!

    That being said, I just wanted to ask what kind of research did you do before creating your headline? Are you trying to rank in the google search engine or are you spending more of your time creating backlinks into your product's website?

    What was your exact phrase total searches a month? Are you using your headline keywords in your Title Page? What does your Meta Description look like? Does it have a call to action that will have people clicking on your link once it is viewable in Google?

    The reason I am asking all this is that, in my opinion, it doesn't matter what your headline says if you cannot get people to your site. I did a quick search and found that Human Figure Drawing is actually a GREAT Exact keyword phrase with LITTLE competition and at least 420 searches a month!! You could dominate this!!!... so, removing it from your Title, Headline and Metadescription could actually hurt you.

    Also, HUMAN-FIGURE-DRAWING.com is available on godaddy right now... I know that purchasing a domain with dashes is not that appealing to google, however, your keywords associated with the domain in comparison to all the other sites would have you dominating this niche keyword phrase.

    The cost per click for this key word phrase is $.50... relatively in the middle if you are looking to do a CPC advertising campaign... AND the adword value to this phrase is $.30 if you like to advertise using adsense.

    My opinion of course and I am no GURU... just a lover of SEO research... call me obsessed! :-) BTW... this research was done on Market Samuri :-)

    Plus, there are SO many additional books, kits and DVDs on amazon in this niche that could make you a nice affiliate income... of course, you are probably already doing this...

    Anywho... I truly hope this helped in some small way... and I wish you the best in your sales...

    Donna
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  • Couldn't I just bought the link human-figure-drawing.com and direct it to my site as I do with masterpaintingnow.com?

    The main site url is ipaintgirls.com

    Or would it have to be the main site url? If so, then it would be easier to just host it on a new server and have it as a mirror sight, but I thought mirror sites lowered your seo.

    I could make it a niche site for just tutorials about the human figure, or use it to mainly promote my human figure course. All good ideas.
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  • Or someone else could buy that url and use it to promotive my course as an affiliate. THrough Clickbank I pay 75% on each sell.
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  • Profile picture of the author dlkiefer
    I agree... you should either purchase the site yourself and make a unique page for your product, monetize it for affiliate marketing. Use your main site at ipaintgirls.com to backlink into your product page which helps your product page without harming your SEO ranking.

    Your main website is very nice, however, ipaintgirls doesn't give the viewer a clear picture as to what the site is really about... that in itself can hurt your SEOing efforts. But you have a lot of good content on your pages. BUT, your source code for your home page shows:

    <meta name="keywords" content="how to draw people, how to draw humans, how to draw the human figure, how to draw figures, how to draw gestures" />

    And yet, the only keyword phrase you listed in your content was in the H1 Header : how to draw figures... where are all the keywords you listed? They should scatter evenly throughout your page without "keyword stuffing"... about 2 to 4% of the total content on each page should be keywords... of which you have less than 1% on your HOME page.

    I just might take you up on your challenge and create a website to help sell your product... You should chit chat with Steve the Copywriter to see if he can write you some amazing copy for your product if you haven't already found someone... I have only known Steve for about a week on here and he is quite amazing!!! I recognized his talent QUICKLY :-)

    I appreciate your responses and look forward to the challenge... Off to do my homework! :-)

    Regards,

    Donna

    P.S. NEVER MIRROR your sites! AND NEVER duplicate your content from your main site to a different site... it will kill your rankings... this is called blackhat SEOing techniques... You want to stay within the WHITE Hat SEOing guidelines... due so, and your sites will stay on google forever! :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Cjxiang
    "A real friend is one who helps us to think our noblest thoughts, put forth our best efforts, and to be our best selves."
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  • Profile picture of the author EmmaA
    Ok i'm just playing around now but how about:

    Stop drawing stick figures and finally exhibit your work!

    that's what I want to learn.
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  • dlk, strange. The home page should show on line 19:
    <metaname="keywords"content="How to Draw Magna, how to draw a cartoon, How to draw a girl, free how to draw, drawing tutorial, free photoshop tutorials, how to draw, Draw a Girl,, draw cartoon people"/>

    I jsut right clicked the page and chose view source. Do you see something different?


    Also, check the tabs at the bottom fo the page. I hide keywords in there as well, which google sees as page text, I think.
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    • Profile picture of the author dlkiefer
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      dlk, strange. The home page should show on line 19:
      <metaname="keywords"content="How to Draw Magna, how to draw a cartoon, How to draw a girl, free how to draw, drawing tutorial, free photoshop tutorials, how to draw, Draw a Girl,, draw cartoon people"/>

      I jsut right clicked the page and chose view source. Do you see something different?


      Also, check the tabs at the bottom fo the page. I hide keywords in there as well, which google sees as page text, I think.
      You are correct... that is on your homepage... :-) I was looking at the 7 Secrets to Figure Drawing page... Wow, that's embarrassing... :p My apologies for my error... :-)

      So, your 7 Secrets to Figure Drawing page is the one with a list of keywords that are not being used I believe...

      As for your homepage, although a clever tactic, Google knows if you are hiding text... or just throwing it in to throw it in :-) you can be penalized as this is another BlackHat SEOing approach which Google FROWNS upon and even will ban your site from the search engines without giving you notice... with Google being responsible for about 86% of all searches, I wouldn't take the risk :-)

      Again, I am NOT a guru by any stretch, just a simple SEOing kind of person... worked on a team for a website for a company that started off with about 164 keywords on their site that were not optimized properly. When Brenda and I started, we were able to get the site to over 7540 keyword phrases on the site with an overwhelming 957 (ORGANIC) optimized keyword phrases that put this site on either page 1 or 2 of google and moved this company up to a page ranking of 124,431 in the US and 522,658 on Alexa all within 2 years just from adding a page per key word phrase and optimizing it via adding less than 200 words... So, it can be done. The business owner was shocked when he was getting requests to be bought out by other competitive companies that he quickly passed in the rankings!!...

      Of course, this was a candy company and there was a LOT of words we could optimize... :-) We knew it would be a challenge because of the keywords were pretty much taken by the big dogs... so, we took advantage of optimizing keyword phrases!! I know 2 years sounds like a LOT of time... but when it brings in MILLIONS... I think you can be happy with taking your time :-) Because of the efforts put in for optimization, this business owner is still secure in his business and still moving up!!!

      It blows my mind how some companies out there don't optimize their sites...

      Okay... getting off my soapbox here... LOL

      You have a LOT of potential for your site!!! Truly you do... and the opportunities to make a LOT of money if you just work it correctly...

      You may already be making enough money and this advice could be going in one ear and out the other... :-) But, my suggestion to you is to optimize each page around one Keyword Phrase and add new pages each week that optimizes a new keyword phrase, can have products offered because of it AND.. most importantly, is relevant to the overall theme of the site... DRAWING!! If you can do more than 1 keyword phrase a week, GOOGLE will drool over you... :-) They love to see a site that is active and adding good content daily...

      Hope this makes sense and I look forward to watching your website blossom!!! :-)

      Any questions in future, give me a shout out... :-)

      Regards,

      Donna
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  • Yeah, I am still working on optimization. How would Google know the difference between an authentic accordian drop down and a fake one? Surely, Google does't penalize using accordians in general as they are very useful. Big sites use them.

    Perhaps, I can write real content into them, rather than purposely saying why I am doing it. Like, hey, I am just writing this text for keyword placement. That's basically what I did, lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author dlkiefer
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      Yeah, I am still working on optimization. How would Google know the difference between an authentic accordian drop down and a fake one? Surely, Google does't penalize using accordians in general as they are very useful. Big sites use them.

      Perhaps, I can write real content into them, rather than purposely saying why I am doing it. Like, hey, I am just writing this text for keyword placement. That's basically what I did, lol.
      You hit the nail right on the head when you said you would write real content :-) I don't know how the heck Google does it :-) But, if you just stick with White Hat SEOing, you will stay forever in google as a favorite!!! Your content doesn't have to be too much... actually... my understanding is that google likes about 250 to 600 words per page... that is your key words being mentioned about 12 to 24 times... Scatter them so that they are not bunched up and mention your keywords at maximum once, if possible without stuffing, within the first 250 words... :-)

      Also, if you want some QUICK and amazing website content... just give your keywords to Natasha who will have you taken care of in a jiffy!... I saw her mentioned on here and she has nothing but INCREDIBLE reviews... so, I thought you might like to hop on over there and give her a try out... I plan to as well... Article writing is definitely not my favorite thing to do :-)

      Wishing you all the best and I KNOW you will do WONDERFULLY... Look forward to seeing some adsense advertising and Amazon ads on your site as well... might as well make some money if a person decides to click out, right?

      Night!!

      Donna
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