a big mistake no one talks about...

31 replies
Here's something I want to point out that I consider a critical mistake no one talks about...

We're taught to write sales pages only for the prospect.

BUT these days online, if you're depending on an affiliate base to drill that sales page with traffic, then you need to also focus on writing a sales page that's attractive to affiliates.

This is sort of a vague thing... Meaning I can't give you any general rules about this.

And this is because your target affiliate is probably different than other target affiliates.

Some only care about EPC no matter what's on your page... some care about how hard core your message is...

But we know that an affiliate takes one good look at your sales page and decides whether to promote or not.

So if you have conservative affiliates, you can't expect them to mail some kind of in your face, kickass John Carlton type copy (even if it does pull like crazy).
#big #mistake #talks
  • Profile picture of the author wlasikiewicz
    Everyone is different and we all target affiliate offers and make sales in different ways. What works for my may not work for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

    Here's something I want to point out that I consider a critical mistake no one talks about...

    We're taught to write sales pages only for the prospect.

    BUT these days online, if you're depending on an affiliate base to drill that sales page with traffic, then you need to also focus on writing a sales page that's attractive to affiliates.

    This is sort of a vague thing... Meaning I can't give you any general rules about this.

    And this is because your target affiliate is probably different than other target affiliates.

    Some only care about EPC no matter what's on your page... some care about how hard core your message is...

    But we know that an affiliate takes one good look at your sales page and decides whether to promote or not.

    So if you have conservative affiliates, you can't expect them to mail some kind of in your face, kickass John Carlton type copy (even if it does pull like crazy).
    Jason,

    I disagree.

    The sales pitch is, or should be, always to the buyer.

    If the affiliate has any idea what makes a prospect buy, he will know this by looking at the copy.

    It's no use having a million affiliates who have no idea what makes good copy if no one buys the product.

    I would rather have ten good affiliates who know what makes a prospect buy than a thousand who have no idea.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by Rezbi View Post

      I would rather have ten good affiliates who know what makes a prospect buy than a thousand who have no idea.
      Well, I'd rather have 1000 who make me a ton of cash than 10 who make me a little cash.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        Well, I'd rather have 1000 who make me a ton of cash than 10 who make me a little cash.
        Come on, Jason, you've completely ignored everything else I've said.

        If you have a thousand guys who have no idea, and a few - Frank Kern, Jeff Walker, Ebe Pagan and a few others - you know, guys who know what they're doing?

        And have big lists?

        Who do you think would get you more sales?
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        • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
          Originally Posted by Rezbi View Post

          Come on, Jason, you've completely ignored everything else I've said.

          If you have a thousand guys who have no idea, and a few - Frank Kern, Jeff Walker, Ebe Pagan and a few others - you know, guys who know what they're doing?

          And have big lists?

          Who do you think would get you more sales?
          Yeah... I'd get the top 10 affiliates + 990 rest of them lol...

          By also thinking about what the affiliates are willing to mail.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
    The only thing that should matter to an affiliate are the numbers.

    They should understand they are not the target prospect. The copy could look bad, but if it works, that's all that matters.

    Numbers don't lie.

    If your product is converting at 5% while everyone else is converting at 2%. Guess which offer I'm going to run as an affiliate.

    Making affiliates happy should be the last thing on your mind as a product owner. First satisfy the customer. If your product converts, then the affiliates will come to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author BrandonLee
      The "only thing that should matter is the numbers?" Really?

      There is so much more that goes into it. What type of relationship is there between the affiliate and the product vendor - have I helped you out in the past and so now you owe me one - but most important of all is what's going to do to your list.

      Every time you send an email to someone you are asking permission to take up a bit of space in their life - and if you abuse that before long they will tell you to take a flying leap. And the same goes for you when you promote for someone else. If you recommend someone to your list and then he goes and hits them over the head with offers six times a week guess who else they are going to hold a grudge against?

      I wish it was so simple as "I only care about the numbers" - but except for in a very few rare circumstances and markets that is hardly ever the case.


      Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

      The only thing that should matter to an affiliate are the numbers.

      They should understand they are not the target prospect. The copy could look bad, but if it works, that's all that matters.

      Numbers don't lie.

      If your product is converting at 5% while everyone else is converting at 2%. Guess which offer I'm going to run as an affiliate.

      Making affiliates happy should be the last thing on your mind as a product owner. First satisfy the customer. If your product converts, then the affiliates will come to you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
        Originally Posted by BrandonLee View Post

        The "only thing that should matter is the numbers?" Really?
        What he meant is the sales numbers.

        What good is a fantastic relationship if no one buys the product?

        It's fine if all you're looking for is friends. But, if you're in business, sales is what matters.

        Of course, you have to treat your customers well. But until they buy something from you, they're not your customers: They're just people who happen to read your stuff.

        Look at Jason's posts: even he refers to the numbers of sales. Not how many friends he made.
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      • I agree with Rezbi.

        In fact, this is the number 1, most basic rule of marketing: You ALWAYS target the buyer.

        It doesn't matter how many people promote the product or service, in the end, "the buyer" is the one who will make the purchase.

        For example: the fitness program P90X isn't just promoted by millions of people because the sales and promos targeted the affiliates. No, it's promoted because millions of buyers have placed reviews on the effectiveness of it and the benefits of using it. This lets the affiliate know that it's worth promoting.

        The best thing to do is yes, create a great product or service that actually delivers on the promises made, develop a great message to build trust with the targeted audience, gain a solid reputation...and once affiliates sign up, they know from the start that they are promoting something that the market not only likes, but also wants.

        Always look at the big picture: Study what the most successful brands in the world do and market your business the same way.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
        Originally Posted by BrandonLee View Post

        The "only thing that should matter is the numbers?" Really?

        There is so much more that goes into it. What type of relationship is there between the affiliate and the product vendor - have I helped you out in the past and so now you owe me one - but most important of all is what's going to do to your list.

        Every time you send an email to someone you are asking permission to take up a bit of space in their life - and if you abuse that before long they will tell you to take a flying leap. And the same goes for you when you promote for someone else. If you recommend someone to your list and then he goes and hits them over the head with offers six times a week guess who else they are going to hold a grudge against?

        I wish it was so simple as "I only care about the numbers" - but except for in a very few rare circumstances and markets that is hardly ever the case.
        Good points about developing and building relationships with your JVs/affiliates.

        But one of the quickest ways I've seen to burn bridges with JVs/affiliates is to ask them to send traffic to your offer that doesn't convert.

        Here's the cliff-notes version of the pre-launch approach I like to use:

        1. Do an internal launch to get conversion rate metrics on my salesletter. If the internal launch does poorly, then I don't bother going onto step 2 until I've tested and tweaked the copy until it does convert.

        2. Write a salesletter aimed at closing JVs & affiliates to promote. I include the internal launch metrics... that way, people who want to know conversion rates and EPCs will know so before making a decision to promote or not.

        A JV or affiliate is going to have different hot buttons than the buyer of the product I'm asking them to promote.

        Say it's a weight loss product for women. The affiliates will care about looking good by recommending the product (product quality)... they'll care about conversion rates and EPCs... they'll care about prizes (if applicable) and even reciprocal mailings.

        The buyer of the product doesn't care about any of those things... they care that the product delivers what it was promised in the copy.

        3. Start with affiliates/JVs that either I already know or my client knows. Get as many of them on board as we can.

        4. Expand the scope to contacting even more potential affiliates and JVs.

        As for 1000 affiliates vs 10 affiliates argument... I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week. It's been my experience that most of those 1000 affiliates will either fail to mail or they'll drive little or no traffic to our offer.

        I'd rather have 10 affiliates that I know will promote and will drive traffic because they want to help make the launch a big success.

        They also know that after our launch, we'll be stronger positioned to help promote their next big launch too.

        Then there's the available pool of JVs and affiliates in a given niche. In a niche like IM, you may be able to recruit a 1000 affiliates... in many non-IM niches, it's going to be A LOT harder to recruit 100 or more affiliates for a launch.

        My 3 cents,

        Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Have you guys ever gotten over 7000 affiliates to promote something at one time and generate millions of visitors to a site?

    I have...

    And I'm not arguing with you...

    I'm TELLING YOU...

    Taking in consideration about what affiliates are willing to promote matters.

    It matters big time.

    Let's take the internet marketing niche...

    Your affiliates might shy away from promoting something that says "How To Make $5000 Per Day" no matter how true it is, no matter how how well the page converts.

    The affiliate base you have may or may not promote it, depending on what type of affiliate base you have.

    But they'll absolutely crush your site with traffic if you tone it down.

    That's my advice that comes from experience... a lot of experience I'm guessing you don't even come close to having.

    Take it or leave it.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      Have you guys ever gotten over 7000 affiliates to promote something at one time and generate millions of visitors to a site?

      I have...

      And I'm not arguing with you...

      I'm TELLING YOU...

      Taking in consideration about what affiliates are willing to promote matters.

      It matters big time.

      Let's take the internet marketing niche...

      Your affiliates might shy away from promoting something that says "How To Make $5000 Per Day" no matter how true it is, no matter how how well the page converts.

      The affiliate base you have may or may not promote it, depending on what type of affiliate base you have.

      But they'll absolutely crush your site with traffic if you tone it down.

      That's my advice that comes from experience... a lot of experience I'm guessing you don't even come close to having.

      Take it or leave it.
      I'll take conversion rates over affiliates any day. Affiliates are easy to get once you prove your product converts.

      You think affiliates care if the product is over hyped? The only thing they care about is making themselves money. The better the landing page the less work they have to do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      Well, I'd rather have 1000 who make me a ton of cash than 10 who make me a little cash.
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      Have you guys ever gotten over 7000 affiliates to promote something at one time and generate millions of visitors to a site?

      I have...

      And I'm not arguing with you...

      I'm TELLING YOU...

      Taking in consideration about what affiliates are willing to promote matters.

      It matters big time.

      Let's take the internet marketing niche...

      Your affiliates might shy away from promoting something that says "How To Make $5000 Per Day" no matter how true it is, no matter how how well the page converts.

      The affiliate base you have may or may not promote it, depending on what type of affiliate base you have.

      But they'll absolutely crush your site with traffic if you tone it down.

      That's my advice that comes from experience... a lot of experience I'm guessing you don't even come close to having.

      Take it or leave it.
      Would they have refused to promote the product if you'd targeted the end buyer with your copy?

      Did you test that?

      I'd really like to know the answer to that.

      You may or may not know, I'm quite big on testing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
    You could have multiple sales pages:

    For example, a pumped up Carlton-esque piece, a more subdued "professional" page, and video versions of both.

    You send your own traffic to the highest converting one, show affiliates the stats and let them make their own mind up.

    And you can go a step further for your biggest affiliates and customize the pages with something like "Special offer for subscribers of ____".
    Signature

    Andrew Gould

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    You should ALWAYS and ONLY write for your target audience (and if you can hone down your copy to speaking with just one person, more power to you.)

    If your copy, approach or general look doesn't resonate with certain mega affiliates, sucks for them.

    Your job isn't to appeal to the conservative nature or limiting beliefs of blinkered people...

    ...it's to help your intended audience.

    As long as you're coming from that perspective, I can't see too many heavy hitters shunning your copy - IF it converts massively.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Gee, affiliate recruitment is part of the marketing process.

    Who woulda thunk?
    Good point.

    In which case the copy written for affiliates will target the affiliates.

    But the copy for the product will target the end buyer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      It's not that black and white. Try sending paid traffic directly to a sales page that has thousands of affiliates.

      You'll go broke.

      I think direct selling on the net is splitting into two schools, people who write for paid direct traffic and people who write for list traffic.
      You've just proven my point...

      Whatever copy you write has to be targeted to that particular audience.

      Jason's point is to write the product copy to target affiliates. That's the part I disagreed with.

      In the 'quickstart copycoach' Tony Flores mentions a successful IM company that makes $100M per year. In spite of having bad copy.

      Then he goes on to say imagine how much they'd make if they'd bothered to hire a good copywriter to write for them.

      So, yes, it is possible to make money - a lot of it - with bad copy.

      But you'd probably make a heck of a lot more if the copy was good.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        No, you've missed mine. Sales copy written to attract affiliates is a different animal than sales copy written to sell directly to the consumer.

        Parker has hit on something here.

        Compare the successful copy written for high margin CB products to the successful copy written for lower margin physical products.

        Closing pre-sold traffic is different than closing traffic from paid ads.
        So, what have I been saying?
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        • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
          Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

          You don't know?
          I do.

          But it seems you don't.

          Have you even read all my posts?

          You basically said the same thing I've been saying.
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  • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
    I have to say Jason, I love your insights and love reading your posts...but I'm going to have to disagree with you here!

    The most basic copywriting rules tell you to write to your avatar (ideal prospect) and ONLY to your prospect. Affiliates aren't the buyers, so why dilute your marketing message by trying to include them?

    The more relevant the letter is to your prospect, the more powerful it will be and the better it should convert. Surely if you've got a high-converting letter, proven to make a lot of money, it will attract the right affiliates anyway?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    You target top affiliates by creating a brand that eclipses everyone else.

    The more your focused on being the authority in your market or niche, the more attention you'll receive from the heavy hitters.
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  • This is not my area of expertise (and forgive me if what I'm about to say doesn't make sense or doesn't work...)

    But here's my thought.

    Affiliates can help you make money.

    But you have to pay them up to 75% of it.

    Isn't it better to sell the thing yourself and keep 100%?


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      This is not my area of expertise (and forgive me if what I'm about to say doesn't make sense or doesn't work...)

      But here's my thought.

      Affiliates can help you make money.

      But you have to pay them up to 75% of it.

      Isn't it better to sell the thing yourself and keep 100%?


      Steve
      The more people you have working for you the more potential customers you have access to.

      If you sell a product for a $100 and sell 100, you make $10,000.

      If 100 affiliates sell 100 each, taking $75 from each sale, that means you have 10,000 customers from whom you get $25 each.

      That's $250,000.

      Does that make sense?

      It's the same principle as a bricks and mortar business having sales people selling for them for a commission.

      Basically, you reach more customers by having others sell for you.

      It's leverage.

      And you can still sell to your own customers for the full price and keep all of that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    Originally Posted by Brad Hodge View Post

    Its tend now what can we do other than this

    every where, things are same alike and egtting new idea to get customer is much difficult in this online age
    What! What! What!
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Grace
    From what I know being on the inside of IM for some time now, it's really about who owes who a favor. With a new launch every minute it will come down to who you have relationships with that will determine mailing... at least in IM.
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  • Profile picture of the author wrcato2
    Jason, not sure that I am following you on this...? As far as I know we write a sales letter to produce sales. It is up to the affiliate to pre-sell another vendors product, which includes referring their prospect to a sales page.
    Do you have an example of what you are talking about?
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