My Copy Formula that gets me 3% covnersion rates

91 replies
IMPORTANT: I am not affiliating anything. I am not promoting anything. I am not selling anything, unless you happen to be interested in awesome art courses, which I doubt you are.

Here is how I write sales copies that have a steady 3% conversion rate. I think that’s pretty good for the art industry. I sell my art courses. Masterpaintingnow.com is my site, where you can find examples of my sales copies for reference purposes. They can be applied to any product. They are not limited to art courses.

Before I share my secrets, you should know why a good sales copy is so important. Before I had a sales copy, my sales conversion rates were below 1%. That blows. No wonder I wasn’t making good money. After making a quick sales copy, my sales rates went up, even though the copy was, blah. Any sales copy is better than nothing is what I learned.

After I wrote a good sales copy, my sales jumped to a steady 3% and have remained so. This is for each course, which has a separate sales copy.

So, yes, learn to write a sales copy. It is better than just INFO about your product. Look, people buy mostly based on emotions, so you need to cater to their emotions. People want to know “what’s in it for me?” It is all me, me , me.

That’s what I did. I learned to write sales copies. I am already a writer. I have sold short stories to magazines, written 6 novels, a good handful of screenplays, etc. I have several published articles under different pseudonyms. I also used to be a top sales person. That honestly was enough to write a good sales copy.

Nonetheless, I studied several sources on sales copies, starting with the free stuff, like “Write Sales Copies That Sell.” Several websites, threads, etc. I bought a few WSOs.

I applied what I learned. The sales copy did pretty well, about 2% on average, but…
What brought my sales copies to the steady 3% conversion rates was writing in a casual style as if I were right there face to face, right there selling them something. Basically, I applied everything I learned about door-to-door sells, selling Cut-Co knives, Kirby Vacuums, etc.

I try to keep my sales copies on the shorter end. Hell, my shortest copy is for my most expensive product $39.95, an art course bundle. It is selling like crazy. Right now the sales copy and video conversion rate is 19%, but that will drop once most of my dedicated fans have stopped buying. I wouldn’t be surprised though if this one has a 4% steady rate after the NEW course hype dies down.

Okay, so, here it is. I follow a simple outline, and within that outline, I keep a casual voice. I talk to them like they are a good friend. I am a real person, so why shouldn’t I sound real? If I say something ungrammatical, then so be it. That is how I talk in person.

Formatting: I keep it simple.

Headline H1, centered, dark red, not the bright ugly red.

Every few paragraphs, I highlight important info. H2, dark red, centered. I think this keeps readers reading.

For the rest of the text, I use black, H5. If I want to highlight an important phrase, I use dark red and bold. I never use yellow highlights. I find them tacky. This might work for other markets, but I think artists, go yuck! I will still try it in a split test, though.

1. I start with a catchy headline that appeals to their needs or wants in an emotional way. Honestly, the best way to convert someone in a debate is using the logical fallacy of appealing to emotions. Sure, you might lose the debate in the eyes of the debate judges, but you will convert more people. Here is a sample of my latest headline for my latest course. “Stop Wasting Your Time With Lame Tutorials and Finally Learn How to Draw Anything From Your Imagination.” It is hard to appeal to an artist’s need to sell them an art course. I could say, Make Great Money as a Pro Artist with this 60 hour Course Bundle for Under $40. That is a headline I will be testing, or something like it.

2. I actually skip introducing myself, which doesn’t seem to be the norm. I introduce myself just a bit later. At this stage, I tease them with more appeal to emotions. Like the blurb of a novel or something. I want to draw them in before I introduce myself. I hint at the problem and solution to that problem.

With this particular copy, I did it like this—

How? Not with lame tutorials. To learn to draw like a pro, you need to be taught by a gifted teacher. That is what this special offer is all about. We’re talking all my courses for a mind-blowing price.

Yes, you heard me right. All 7 courses.

That’s 60 hours of quality teaching that will transform you into an awesome artist.
That’s right …

This is the end of your journey of drawing okay to drawing realistically from your imagination, to painting digitally, to drawing comics and awesome figures, to shading and lighting properly, to doing perspective properly, and more.

You’re going to see your drawings transform, and you’re going to see your friends admire your drawings/painting, and you’re going to experience more confidence in your drawing than you ever have before—and you will do it in just a few months.

That sounds like a long time, huh? Well, it’s not. It goes by quickly. It is a fraction of the time it will take you if you try to do it on your own or go to art school.
3. Next, I share a testimony or two. Why? Because people will believe a testimony or second hand info in a story form before they will believe scientific or logical information or facts. This has been proven with many blind tests. It’s because the testimony appeals to emotions. We are emotions creatures and make most decisions based on our emotions.

4. Then I share a before and after picture, to show how much one of my students improved after taking my course. For other products, you could use a similar type of image. For weight loss, or muscle building, you could use a before and after pic of yourself or a student, to show how much weight they lost or muscle they gained. For a marketing product, you could show before and after stats of sales. How much money made before and made after using the product.

5. Then I introduce myself briefly with showing a fault about myself. Sometimes, I do this before I share the before and after picture. Here is an example.

I’m not the best artist in the world, but I’m a great teacher. I transform artists into professionals.

Just look at this transformation from my figure course.
6. Then I talk a bit more about myself. This is the why they should care about anything I have to say. I am a professional illustrator and art instructor who makes good money doing what I love.

7. Now I clearly lay out the problem and partly the solution.

Example from the same sales copy I have been quoting from.

The #1 Reason You’re Not Drawing Like A Pro

You’re Not Learning the Fundamentals that Michelangelo learned.

You’re not doing the correct drawing exercises that daVinci used.

That’s what my courses do. They actually teach.

Hey, I understand if you are skeptical, so if you stick with me for just a bit longer, I will give you a free lesson to see for yourself. How’s that sound?
8. Now I share more about myself. I share a short story about my how I couldn’t draw from my imagination, how I couldn’t get a job as an artist, et c. Then how my solution got me a job in art. How my solution got me drawing from my imagination, but I still only hint at the solution.

9. Then, if I can, I like to offer a free lesson if they will stick with me just a bit longer. I always keep my promises. If I say it is a free lesson, then that is exactly what it is. Don’t claim you will do something and not do it. Always be honest. Don’t claim the deal expires at midnight unless it actually expires at midnight. If I ever see that an offer expires at midnight, I wait. If it is still there the next day, I don’t buy, even if I really want to buy. They are dishonest, so how can I trust their product is going to work?

10. I list benefits of the art course. I make these emotional, not just information. I don’t say, this course teaching you to draw figures like never before. I say things like “you’re going to advance quickly,” “you’re going to draw awesome figures,” “you’re going to land that art job.” If you can, mention the benefits of how it will help their needs and desires. Don’t just say, “This program will make you lose weight.” Say, “Watch the weight fall off and the hotties start asking for your number.” Or something like that.

11. I like to mention how awesome they will feel when they can finally draw from their imagination. At this point, my story I told of my transformation becomes their story. They should now feel like with my course they can make that same transformation, but I am sure they have concerns and doubts. What is holding them back from scrolling down and just buying right now?

12. I start to address these concerns.
Example:

You will also get that feeling. In fact, if my teachings don’t work for you then…


I will refund your money because I want to help you.



If you don’t grow then I failed and you shouldn’t have to pay for that.


I can offer that guarantee because my methods works for 99 percent of people. They will work for you too. So why wait?
I also use a little trick I carried over from screenwriting, the ellipsis. I think it adds tension, just like it does in a screenplay.

13. Next, I briefly mention what the get. This is what is in the course. Because this is boring, I keep it as short as possible. INFO = Boring.

14. Then I build up the value.
Example:

That is 60 hours of drawing lessons that will transform you into a professional artist.

All these courses are easily worth $1,000, and definitely worth $500.

I could easily charge $100 just for my figure course.
I am always honest about the value. I never falsely inflate it to try to get more sales. I want my sales to be honest. Look, they are going to buy and watch the course. They are going to know if it isn’t actually worth $10,000 dollars. I see marketers inflate value to the point of dishonesty all the time. Don’t do it if you want repeat sales.

15. After I have shown the TRUE value of everything they are getting, including the value of all the bonuses, then I drop the price on them.

Example:

Look, I know not everyone can afford much, so here it is. You get all 60 hours, all 7 of my courses for a low $39.95.
16. Then I explain why and how I can offer such a good rate. Sometimes, I show why I am taking all the risks. Other times, I just leave it implied. In this sales copy, I left it implied.

17. Then I make a call to action. I use a little trick here. Throughout the copy, I have called it my course, then the course, and now, when I make a call to action, I say, buy your course now. I call it there course, transferring the ownership to them.
Also, using the word NOW is important. It is urgent.

18. Either before or after the first price mention, I give a sense of urgency. In this case, the 39.95 price is only for the first 100 people. I always keep my word. After 100 people, I will raise the price. Always be honest. It is best for repeat customers. Don’t get a bad rep of being dishonest. If they know it is real, then the next time I make an offer, when I email buyers who joined my newsletter, they will know the price will go up.

19. Next I write a P.S. As part of my P.S. message, I drop a true fact on them.

Here is a neat little factoid. Most people that see an offer like this, if they don’t buy it then, they never do. Life gets in the way. They lose the page and can’t find it. The deal runs out because 100 people already bought it, etc.

Don’t be one of those people. Your new courses will change your drawing career.
20. Another call to action. I always use text not buttons. I always have the buy text say, Click Here to buy your new course now. Or something like that.

Why I feel it is better than a call to action than a buy button is because, I feel like it is two steps they must go through. Read the call to action, then check out the button to click on it. You are saying, Buy now for ONLY $39.95. Then there is a buy now button. I think it is distracting. But I need to split test buttons VS no buttons.

21. I like to end with a “still not convinced?” sentence. In this case I remind them of my promise, the free lesson.

Still not convinced? Well, that is why I am offering you a free lesson that you can watch and do right now to see the improvement. Click here to check it out.
I understand that it isn’t good to lead them away from the sales copy, but in this case, I think it works because, anyone that gets this far is still not ready to buy. They go watch the free video lesson. They see it improve their art. At the end of that free lesson is a call to action and a link back to the video version of the sales copy.

One last thing. I have had great success with making a video version of the sales copy and embed it in the copy to play automatically. I write in big text that they can pause the video the mute the sound, if they prefer reading.

In fact, video sales copies have an even higher conversion rate for me. I am not sure exactly how much yet because not enough data, but no doubt, it is higher.

Thanks for reading. I hope this helps you make more money.
#copy #covnersion #formula #good sales copy #how to write sales copy #rates #sales copy formula
  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Write out 100 times -

    "sales copy" not "a sales copy", "video sales copies" or "sales copies".

    In fact just plain "copy" will do. "Copy" means "sales copy". Written by a "Copywriter". To make sales.

    Good luck with your "covnersion rates".
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  • I want to be precise as possible and not use any form of short hand. I hate when I am trying to learn something as a newb, and the teacher is talking genre jargon without defining it. Like when a market says IM and just expects a newb to know that means internet marketing, or when they talk about OTO as if the newb should know that means One Time Offer.

    A sales copy is proper. You wouldn't write. check out sales copy, when you mean to say, check out a sales copy.

    It's a good idea to know for sure you are correct about something before trying to correct someone. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post


      A sales copy is proper. You wouldn't write. check out sales copy, when you mean to say, check out a sales copy.

      It's a good idea to know for sure you are correct about something before trying to correct someone. :p
      Sales copy (or just copy) is a kind of writing like poetry or prose. You would never say A poetry or A prose. It's just poetry or prose or (sales) copy.

      You could say "check out MY sales copy" or "check out THIS sales copy."

      A little humility is in order. A simple "oops, my bad" would be fine. Just friendly advice to keep the hyenas from descending upon you.

      If you don't heed it, all I can say is run Art Boy, RUN!
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post


      A sales copy is proper. You wouldn't write. check out sales copy, when you mean to say, check out a sales copy.

      It's a good idea to know for sure you are correct about something before trying to correct someone. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post


      It's a good idea to know for sure you are correct about something before trying to correct someone. :p
      Gee here I've been writing copy for a hundred years and I didn't know it was "a copy".

      Now go stand in the corner you moron.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Do try putting a capital C at the start of a sentence please.

      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      I want to be precise as possible...

      A sales copy is proper. You wouldn't write. check out sales copy, when you mean to say, check out a sales copy.

      It's a good idea to know for sure you are correct about something before trying to correct someone. :p
      Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - another clown climbed out of his box.

      Apart from the fact your thread is saying nothing new whatsoever, these tactics having been described a thousand times here before, your thread appears to be nothing more that a cheap shot at spamming the forum.

      Self promotion, it's against the rules here btw - just thought you should know.

      Too, don't you perhaps think that maybe, just maybe, a very large number of the top copywriters here who each have generated huge amounts of money for their respective clients over the years, might just have shared some of their copywriting knowledge here before? Would this thought pattern ever have occurred to you? Just wondering, you know?

      You ain't saying anything new here. It's all elementary basic stuff. And like I said above you really do need to stop spamming the forum.

      If you are going to teach others here the art of writing sales copy, at least have the courtesy to make up a product out of thin air rather than blatantly promoting your own product.

      As regards: TheCopyNazi (Malcolm Lambe) - he's been in the copywriting trenches far longer than you have - decades in fact. His experience and knowledge of copywriting is extraordinary bordering on genius. Enough said.

      Telling him off as a complete newbie is merely embarrassing yourself and just making yourself look, well, to put it bluntly, hellishly bloomin' stupid.

      Especially when you can't get things right yourself.

      Ever heard of the expression?... Stop looking for a splinter in somebody elses eye when you already have a rafter in your own eye. You ever heard this expression?

      Here, take a look in the mirror...

      What do you see?

      Conduct yourself with more finesse in this forum and you might actually learn a thing or two. Which simple fact should go without saying.

      Btw you want to get really pedantic? Really? Great thread title, shame you couldn't even spell 'conversion' properly. :rolleyes:

      It's 'conversion' NOT 'covnersion'.

      Duhhh.


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
    What kind of offers do you promote that get 3% conversion? Because to be honest that's a really low %. Most websites I've worked with that didn't even have any real copy would still sell at 1-3%. So depending on what kind of products your selling... 3% could be decent. or 3% could be really crappy.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    What kind of offers do you promote that get 3% conversion? Because to be honest that's a really low %. Most websites I've worked with that didn't even have any real copy would still sell at 1-3%. So depending on what kind of products your selling... 3% could be decent. or 3% could be really crappy.

    LOL... this sorta stuff cracks me up.... not sure what planet you're on where sites with no copy get 3% conversion... but in the real world, on planet earth... if someone's got an offer doing 3% on cold traffic they're doing 7 figures a year, easy.
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    “Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.”
    ― Dalai Lama XIV

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    • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      LOL... this sorta stuff cracks me up.... not sure what planet you're on where sites with no copy get 3% conversion... but in the real world, on planet earth... if someone's got an offer doing 3% on cold traffic they're doing 7 figures a year, easy.
      Whats your definition of cold traffic?
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    • Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      LOL... this sorta stuff cracks me up.... not sure what planet you're on where sites with no copy get 3% conversion... but in the real world, on planet earth... if someone's got an offer doing 3% on cold traffic they're doing 7 figures a year, easy.

      Yeah, if I could get that from cold untargetted traffic, that would be awesome. I get it from targetted traffic. However, I am sure some of the traffic that lands on my sales copies is untargetted traffic, but that cannot be prevented. For example, anyone from this thread that visits one of my ssles copies is untargetted. I still calculate their visits into my conversion rates, though.

      I am working on optimising a facebook campaign right now. If all goes as planned, I will share that knowledge in another thread. Once you get an ad that pulls in more money than spent, money, baby. Booya!

      The problem is, the very targeted people on facebook for art, leaves me with only like 200,000 people to advertise to. I am working on a CPC campaign.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrsray
    conversion rates mean nothing without visitor value ... what kind of visitor value do you get with your sales copy?
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    >>> It is not about working to make money - it is about making money work for you <<<
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    OMF. My eyes are in pain. If you want to increase the "conversions" of your OP, please make the font larger.
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  • Profile picture of the author NickN
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Personally, I loved these phrases the best:

    I had no idea that Angelo was Michel's last name.

    You live and learn.
    That's the best thing I've seen on the Internet.

    EVER.
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  • It seems that I have a lot of irritated people to respond to.

    Pusateri, Cool Hand Luke, and the Copy Nazi, whatever world you guys come from, it sounds like someone who doesn’t know English to say, “Check out sales copy,” when they mean to say, “Check out a sales copy.” No different than if you said, “Check out a bar tonight.”

    It doesn’t matter to me if it has become acceptable in jargon or not, I’m not going to use it. Just like I don’t say, go to hospital as the Europeans do. I say go to the hospital or go to a hospital, depending if I am being specific or general.

    Mark Andrews,

    Not sure what offended you so much. I find it very odd, your behavior that is. What product would I be promoting? My art courses to marketing and copywriters? Really? Why would I even waste my time trying to do that? That is completely untargeted traffic. I only go for targeted traffic.

    I am simply paying it forward. I made 5k this month because of my sales copies, so I wanted to share with people, who might be having a hard time bringing in the cash. It’s not that hard to write a sales copy that works, so they can learn to do it rather than to pay someone too much money.

    Mark, I don’t mind if you think I look stupid. When I think someone is stupid, I keep it to myself. However, I do find it odd that with all your intelligence, you couldn’t figure out that obviously the spelling “covnerson” was a typo, where one finger typed “V” faster than the other finger typed “N,” thus reversing the order of those two letters.

    Mrsray, .9, so almost a $1 per visitor, but not sure why that is more important for you than conversion rates. BTW, that is calculated on people who visit the sales pages. My sites main function is free art tutorials, over 300 that I have made so far. The secondary function is selling art courses. I only calculate visitor value with those that visit my sales pages. To calculate visitor value on those that visit my free tutorials and home page which pushes the free tutorials is odd to me.

    But .46 for all site visitors. This is calculated based on a week. Traffic and sales stay steady enough that calculating a month makes no difference. Also, this is not taking into account my new course which is at 19% conversions.
    Just curious, why is visitor value more important to you than a specific sales copy’s conversion rate?
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    • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      Pusateri, Cool Hand Luke, and the Copy Nazi, whatever world you guys come from, it sounds like someone who doesn't know English to say, "Check out sales copy," when they mean to say, "Check out a sales copy." No different than if you said, "Check out a bar tonight."

      It doesn't matter to me if it has become acceptable in jargon or not, I'm not going to use it. Just like I don't say, go to hospital as the Europeans do. I say go to the hospital or go to a hospital, depending if I am being specific or general.
      You just can't admit when you're wrong, can you?

      It's not jargon, it's correct and idiomatic English, as spoken by educated native English speakers.

      Here are the facts:

      You do not use a singular indefinite article with "sales copy":

      "The Copy Nazi wrote a sales copy" is ALWAYS incorrect and brands you as either uneducated or a non-native speaker.

      You may use a plural indefinite article:

      "The Copy Nazi wrote some sales copy for me"

      You may use a definite article with "sales copy":

      "The Copy Nazi wrote the sales copy for my product" or "My sales copy was crap until I got a professional to do the job right"

      "Sales copy" (or salescopy) is both singular and plural. "The Copy Nazi wrote the sales copy for my first product. He also wrote the sales copy for my next twelve products."

      "Sales copies" is NEVER correct. It brands you as either uneducated or a non-native speaker.

      Perhaps this little grammar lesson will help a few of the non-native writers out there.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremey
        This is good informations, but I think if you could provide a data on where your traffics are coming from it will be more helpful to insight on your covnersion rate.
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        • Originally Posted by Jeremey View Post

          This is good informations, but I think if you could provide a data on where your traffics are coming from it will be more helpful to insight on your covnersion rate.

          13.6 search traffic. Relevant words.
          53.6 referal traffic, mostly social media. Most of that coming from Youtube, then deviant art, facebook, reddit, linkedn, Pinterest, Yahoo Answer, Quora, etc.
          32 is direct traffic.

          Hope that helps.
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      • Originally Posted by Gail_Curran View Post

        You just can't admit when you're wrong, can you?

        It's not jargon, it's correct and idiomatic English, as spoken by educated native English speakers.

        Here are the facts:

        You do not use a singular indefinite article with "sales copy":

        "The Copy Nazi wrote a sales copy" is ALWAYS incorrect and brands you as either uneducated or a non-native speaker.

        You may use a plural indefinite article:

        "The Copy Nazi wrote some sales copy for me"

        You may use a definite article with "sales copy":

        "The Copy Nazi wrote the sales copy for my product" or "My sales copy was crap until I got a professional to do the job right"

        "Sales copy" (or salescopy) is both singular and plural. "The Copy Nazi wrote the sales copy for my first product. He also wrote the sales copy for my next twelve products."

        "Sales copies" is NEVER correct. It brands you as either uneducated or a non-native speaker.

        Perhaps this little grammar lesson will help a few of the non-native writers out there.
        I have no clue where you are getting this from. "sales copies" is used all the time.

        "a sales copy" = one copy.
        "the sales copies" = more than one copy.

        A quick Google search for the exact phrase "sales copies."

        37,800 results.

        Check this result






        44 USC § 1708 - Prices for sales copies of publications; crediting of ...

        LII | LII / Legal Information InstituteUSCTitle 44Chapter 17

        Law Cornell. Interesting that they would use a supposed incorrect phrase.

        Google search for "a sales copy." 520,000 results.

        profcopy.com result, check this, "We Know How to Write a Sales Copy that Sells."

        "salescopy" doesn't show up at dictionary.com.
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        • Profile picture of the author NickN
          Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post


          A quick Google search for the exact phrase "sales copies."

          37,800 results.

          Check this result


          44 USC § 1708 - Prices for sales copies of publications; crediting of ...

          LII | LII / Legal Information InstituteUSCTitle 44Chapter 17

          Law Cornell. Interesting that they would use a supposed incorrect phrase.

          Google search for "a sales copy." 520,000 results.

          profcopy.com result, check this, "We Know How to Write a Sales Copy that Sells."

          "salescopy" doesn't show up at dictionary.com.
          And just "sales copy" gets you over 1.4 million results. The results of your searches just show how many bad "copywriters" are out there.

          And the copy on the copywriting website is terrible. I couldn't find the example on the other site you linked to.
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          • Originally Posted by NickN View Post

            And just "sales copy" gets you over 1.4 million results. The results of your searches just show how many bad "copywriters" are out there.

            And the copy on the copywriting website is terrible. I couldn't find the example on the other site you linked to.

            But if you do an advanced Google searach

            "sales copy" -"a -sales -copy"

            YOu only get 220,000 results, meaning most of the 1.6 million are about "a sales copy."

            This does seem to conflict with "a sales copy" only getting 520,000 results. 520,000 plus 220,000 isn't 1.6 million. Weird.
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        • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
          Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

          I have no clue where you are getting this from. "sales copies" is used all the time.

          "a sales copy" = one copy.
          "the sales copies" = more than one copy.

          A quick Google search for the exact phrase "sales copies."

          37,800 results.

          Check this result






          44 USC § 1708 - Prices for sales copies of publications; crediting of ...

          LII | LII / Legal Information InstituteUSCTitle 44Chapter 17

          Law Cornell. Interesting that they would use a supposed incorrect phrase.

          Google search for "a sales copy." 520,000 results.

          profcopy.com result, check this, "We Know How to Write a Sales Copy that Sells."

          "salescopy" doesn't show up at dictionary.com.

          This is what is known as a logical fallacy. You are appealing to the popular and begging the question. Instead of taking into account multiple expert sources that may disprove your point, you're only citing those which support your (incorrect) argument.

          The fact that you're arguing grammar and the correctness of terms with people who are experts in their fields - that's kind of astonishing to me. Would you argue with an anesthesiologist on the correct mixture of medications as well? How about tell a chef how to prepare some obscure French recipe? These guys were trying to help you out, but with that attitude I think you should stick to art, man.

          By the way, arguing that Google search results proves your theory correct is a bonehead move. I got 192 MILLION results typing in the words "murder is legal".

          Edited to add: if you actually read your Cornell link, they're talking about physical copies and using "sales" as a modifier, meaning these are copies you are intending to sell.

          It reads: Prices for sales copies of publications; crediting of receipts; resale by dealers; sales agents.

          It then goes on to clarify: The price at which additional copies of Government publications are offered for sale to the public by the Superintendent of Documents shall be based on the cost as determined by the Public Printer plus 50 percent. A discount may be allowed as determined by the Superintendent of Documents, but the printing may not interfere with prompt execution of work for the Government.
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          • Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

            This is what is known as a logical fallacy. You are appealing to the popular and begging the question. Instead of taking into account multiple expert sources that may disprove your point, you're only citing those which support your (incorrect) argument.

            The fact that you're arguing grammar and the correctness of terms with people who are experts in their fields - that's kind of astonishing to me. Would you argue with an anesthesiologist on the correct mixture of medications as well? How about tell a chef how to prepare some obscure French recipe? These guys were trying to help you out, but with that attitude I think you should stick to art, man.

            By the way, arguing that Google search results proves your theory correct is a bonehead move. I got 192 MILLION results typing in the words "murder is legal".

            I will argue with anyone that "claims" to be an expert when they don't sound like one. Yup.

            Hell, I'll be honest. I'll argue with a professor if they "seem" incorrect. If they end up proving me wrong, then I learned something all while having fun.

            Now as far as logical fallacies go, how common people use phrases is very important for this argument. I am not writing to people that prefer to use a weird sounding sentence like "Hey, check out these sales copy," or "hey check out sales copy about art." Nope, I am writing to the majority, the people who want to learn something from my experience that has worked so far for me. They are used to sentences like "Hey, check out these sales copies," and "Hey, check out a sales copy about art."

            Just sayin'
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            • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
              Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

              I will argue with anyone that "claims" to be an expert when they don't sound like one. Yup.

              Hell, I'll be honest. I'll argue with a professor if they "seem" incorrect. If they end up proving me wrong, then I learned something all while having fun.

              Now as far as logical fallacies go, how common people use phrases is very important for this argument. I am not writing to people that prefer to use a weird sounding sentence like "Hey, check out these sales copy," or "hey check out sales copy about art." Nope, I am writing to the majority, the people who want to learn something from my experience that has worked so far for me. They are used to sentences like "Hey, check out these sales copies," and "Hey, check out a sales copy about art."


              Just sayin'
              Seem wrong. Meaning you have no real factual basis other than your assumption that the majority thinks the way you do. Check out the edit I added to my last comment - you assumed incorrectly that the Cornell link supports your argument when it does not. The majority you're citing...I'm pretty sure they're non-native English speakers, as we're continually pointing out to you, a fact which you keep neatly side-stepping in your attempt to make seasoned pros (who make millions of dollars doing this for a living) look like idiots. You could learn a lot from these guys if you'd stop trying to be the expert - they're not telling you how to paint or teach people art, you notice that?

              Hell at this point, I feel like I'm talking to a rock. It's pretty pointless trying to explain something to someone if they're unwilling to consider any alternatives but their own narrow mindset.
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              • Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

                Seem wrong. Meaning you have no real factual basis other than your assumption that the majority thinks the way you do. Check out the edit I added to my last comment - you assumed incorrectly that the Cornell link supports your argument when it does not. The majority you're citing...I'm pretty sure they're non-native English speakers, as we're continually pointing out to you, a fact which you keep neatly side-stepping in your attempt to make seasoned pros (who make millions of dollars doing this for a living) look like idiots. You could learn a lot from these guys if you'd stop trying to be the expert - they're not telling you how to paint or teach people art, you notice that?

                Hell at this point, I feel like I'm talking to a rock. It's pretty pointless trying to explain something to someone if they're unwilling to consider any alternatives but their own narrow mindset.
                When evidence shows me I am wrong I accept it. So far, that has not happened. Also, no expert making millions has corrected me.
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                • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

                  When evidence shows me I am wrong I accept it. So far, that has not happened. Also, no expert making millions has corrected me.
                  Dude...I just did. Several times. But go ahead...be a rebel...keep talking about "a sales copy".
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        • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
          Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

          I have no clue where you are getting this from. "sales copies" is used all the time.
          Yes, by fools who don't know what they don't know.

          "a sales copy" = one copy.
          "the sales copies" = more than one copy.
          "a sales art" = one art

          "the sales arts" = more than one sales art.

          Best regards,

          Art N. Kopee
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          • Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

            Yes, by fools who don't know what they don't know.



            "a sales art" = one art

            "the sales arts" = more than one sales art.

            Best regards,

            Art N. Kopee
            No one talks like that. At least, not that I've heard. But people do say, "a sales copy," and "the sales copies."

            Just look at Google results. Search these words; use quotes "sales copy." Then in--none these words---use quotes "a sales copy."

            Then just search for "sales copy."

            Then just search for "a sales copy."

            It is a good indication of how people talk.

            I have no problem with you guys talking differently, but I highly doubt it makes your sales copies convert any better because when in a sales copy do you mention the term sales copy?

            I think what we should do is instead look at my sales copies and see why they steadily bring in 3% conversions.

            The only time that 3% dropped to 2% is when I ran a huge solo ad that brought in untargeted traffic.
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            • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
              Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

              No one talks like that. At least, not that I've heard. But people do say, "a sales copy," and "the sales copies."

              Just look at Google results. Search these words; use quotes "sales copy." Then in--none these words---use quotes "a sales copy."

              Then just search for "sales copy."

              Then just search for "a sales copy."

              It is a good indication of how people talk.

              I have no problem with you guys talking differently, but I highly doubt it makes your sales copies convert any better because when in a sales copy do you mention the term sales copy?

              I think what we should do is instead look at my sales copies and see why they steadily bring in 3% conversions.

              The only time that 3% dropped to 2% is when I ran a huge solo ad that brought in untargeted traffic.
              The intricacies of the English language are clearly not your strong suit, and that's fine.

              The information in your first post is massively flawed in many areas and you are clearly in no position to teach anyone anything about copywriting, and that's fine.

              You're too stubborn to admit when you are 100%, completely, entirely wrong, and that's fine.

              But you know what's not fine?

              You still not have not posted a link to your arts so that we can buy a art from you! I wish to buy at least one art, and possibly two arts. Others may wish to buy a art as well. Please let us know. Thanks.
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            • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
              Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

              No one talks like that. At least, not that I've heard. But people do say, "a sales copy," and "the sales copies."

              Just look at Google results. Search these words; use quotes "sales copy." Then in--none these words---use quotes "a sales copy."

              Then just search for "sales copy."

              Then just search for "a sales copy."

              It is a good indication of how people talk.

              I have no problem with you guys talking differently, but I highly doubt it makes your sales copies convert any better because when in a sales copy do you mention the term sales copy?

              I think what we should do is instead look at my sales copies and see why they steadily bring in 3% conversions.

              The only time that 3% dropped to 2% is when I ran a huge solo ad that brought in untargeted traffic.
              Many years ago I wrote some copy for a compounding pharmacist to be used in a brochure.

              It included captions to be placed under each photo.

              One photo was of a mortar and pestle.

              When I referred to it, I pronounced the T in pestle. He informed me that the T is silent and the word is pronounced "pessle."

              As I don't want to go through life sounding ignorant, I considered his correction a kindness. The object was a tool of his trade, so it was safe to assume he knew what the hell it was called.

              Had I argued that most people would pronounce the T, he would have said, "Not people who actually use the thing, son."

              I've been writing copy for over twenty years. In all that time I have never heard anyone say, "a sales copy" or "sales copies." Not once...not ever. I would have corrected them. As a kindness.

              Next to my desk here is a bookcase filled with about 150 books on copywriting and advertising written by experts on the subjects.

              That's over 30,000 pages of text.

              Over five million words.

              You will not find one instance of "a copy" or "sales copies" in them.

              Why do you think that is?
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              • Profile picture of the author Karson
                Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post


                Next to my desk here is a bookcase filled with about 150 books on copywriting and advertising written by experts on the subjects.

                That's over 30,000 pages of text.

                Over five million words.

                You will not find one instance of "a copy" or "sales copies" in them.

                Why do you think that is?

                Man, I want your library!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      ...whatever world you guys come from, it sounds like someone who doesn't know English to say...
      Pardon me pointing out a few more errors since you seem so hell bent on pointing the finger at others...

      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      Yeah, if I could get that from cold untargetted traffic, that would be awesome. I get it from targetted traffic. However, I am sure some of the traffic that lands on my sales copies is untargetted traffic, but that cannot be prevented. For example, anyone from this thread that visits one of my ssles copies is untargetted. I still calculate their visits into my conversion rates, though.
      It's targeted ya ruddy great goofball not 'targetted'. :rolleyes:

      'Targetted' is not in the English dictionary.

      Do you want me to pull your rafter out now or the carpet from underneath your feet?

      At least learn to spell before open openly criticizing others.

      Hint, when you see a red squiggly line underneath a word, bar copywriting, it's because you've usually spelled something incorrectly.

      Should've gone to Specsavers.


      Mark Andrews
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      • Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

        Pardon me pointing out a few more errors since you seem so hell bent on pointing the finger at others...



        It's targeted ya ruddy great goofball not 'targetted'. :rolleyes:

        'Targetted' is not in the English dictionary.

        Do you want me to pull your rafter out now or the carpet from underneath your feet?

        At least learn to spell before open openly criticizing others.

        Hint, when you see a red squiggly line underneath a word, bar copywriting, it's because you've usually spelled something incorrectly.

        Should've gone to Specsavers.


        Mark Andrews
        Yup, I make errors, especially in a quick forum post that I don't even proof read. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author mrsray
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      visitor value ... not sure why that is more important for you than conversion rates.
      well, they do work hand in hand BUT for starters you can earn more with a high visitor value and lower conversion rates, than with high conversion rates and lower visitor value
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    • Profile picture of the author mrsray
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      Mrsray, .9, so almost a $1 per visitor... To calculate visitor value on those that visit my free tutorials and home page which pushes the free tutorials is odd to me. [/FONT][/SIZE]

      Just curious, why is visitor value more important to you than a specific sales copy's conversion rate?
      Just fyi, I never said VV was more important, my statement was:
      Originally Posted by mrsray View Post

      conversion rates mean nothing without visitor value ... what kind of visitor value do you get with your sales copy?
      Your free tutorials are there to make you money in the end, right? so I do not understand why it is odd to you

      Bottom line, the only number that really matters is the number with $$ attached to it

      But congrats on the $1 per visitor value!! that is amazing and thanks for sharing your post with us.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
    So, you can really teach me how to make a art? I looked at your site and you have good arts.

    I hope my arts will look as good as yours some day.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Soulsby
    You people that get really annoyed by spelling and grammar mistakes annoy the hell out of me! One guy up there being abusive and calling this guy a moron, he's trying to add value and instead of reading it you judge his spelling, sad, really sad, get a life boys.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Daniel Soulsby View Post

      You people that get really annoyed by spelling and grammar mistakes annoy the hell out of me! One guy up there being abusive and calling this guy a moron, he's trying to add value and instead of reading it you judge his spelling, sad, really sad, get a life boys.
      "Trying to add value" and failing miserably.

      BTW you do realize that correct spelling and grammar are part and parcel of a copywriter's life don't you? Or would you prefer me to write -

      "Yous reeleyes that Granma and spellin are part and pacel of a copy writes life?"
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      • Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

        "Trying to add value" and failing miserably.

        BTW you do realize that correct spelling and grammar are part and parcel of a copywriter's life don't you? Or would you prefer me to write -

        "Yous reeleyes that Granma and spellin are part and pacel of a copy writes life?"
        Of course not, but I have learned through much sales experience to know your target audience. Believe me, if I were trying to sell something to copywriters, I would call it copy, and never use "a sales copy" or "sales copies."

        If I were targeting programmers, I would be sure to never call singular datum "data," even though non-programmers do it all the time. I'd use other jargon programmers are used to as well. I'd try to learn the wording that gets under their skin and avoid it.

        If I were talking to novelists, I'd be sure to avoid ain't, just in case.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Soulsby
        Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

        "Trying to add value" and failing miserably.

        BTW you do realize that correct spelling and grammar are part and parcel of a copywriter's life don't you? Or would you prefer me to write -

        "Yous reeleyes that Granma and spellin are part and pacel of a copy writes life?"
        Well I do write my own copy and have made millions of dollars online so I know bit maybe.

        You can lose conversions with bad spelling because a small amount of people get annoyed about it, maybe 1-2%. Very bad grammar can also lose a bit. But this guy ain't selling to you, he's said that, he's trying to tell you his experiences with copy but all your mainly interested in spelling and grammar, do its pretty sad to rip it out of him - innnniiiit me ol buddy boy?
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        • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
          Banned
          [DELETED]
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          • Profile picture of the author Daniel Soulsby
            Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

            Rubbish. Dude has been posting stuff here for the past couple of years...rabbiting on about how he's a multi-million dollar copywriter...with a Bentley...Citation jet...mansion - all the rest of it. Claims to have made a fortune from writing copy. All of the claims unsubstantiated. And you wonder why I'm skeptical?

            - Vin Montello - "The Millionaire Maker".

            BTW it's not "all your mainly interested in"...it's "all you're mainly interested in", buddy boy. "You're" - short for "You are".
            Dude, now you're just plain lieing, I never said any of that apart from that I've made millions of dollars and that's 100% true. I do write my own copy but my business is marketing, I've never called myself a copywriter, do u just make up stuff about people kiddo?

            Really sad now you've just made yourself look like an idiot as well as an up tight natzi obsesses with spelling snd grammar.

            I don't have to prove diddly squat if I'm not selling anything but here some anyway just to shit up your lieing once and for all.

            Affiliateplayboy.com, I can also get that £30,000 day on video or even show anyone in person. I can prove all my income, but I don't have time, I'm busy making it, I'm not here to lie like you.

            Here us more proof of what I make, my YouTube channel The6FigureAffiliate

            Now you look like a right lieing moron, which is what you are - moron, stop wasting my time!
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            • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Daniel Soulsby View Post

              Dude, now you're just plain lieing, I never said any of that apart from that I've made millions of dollars and that's 100% true. I do write my own copy but my business is marketing, I've never called myself a copywriter, do u just make up stuff about people kiddo?

              Really sad now you've just made yourself look like an idiot as well as an up tight natzi obsesses with spelling snd grammar.

              I don't have to prove diddly squat if I'm not selling anything but here some anyway just to shit up your lieing once and for all.

              Affiliateplayboy.com, I can also get that £30,000 day on video or even show anyone in person. I can prove all my income, but I don't have time, I'm busy making it, I'm not here to sell or scam or lie like you.

              Here us more proof of what I make, my YouTube channel The6FigureAffiliate

              Now you look like a right lieing moron, which is what you are - moron, stop wasting my time!
              Yes - I confused this thread with the other one from our Multi-Millionaire copywriter. You get that when working on 6 different things at once.

              And I wasn't referring to you but the O.P.

              No need to get your knickers in a twist. And watch your language.
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              • Profile picture of the author Daniel Soulsby
                Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

                Yes - I confused this thread with the other one from our Multi-Millionaire copywriter. You get that when working on 6 different things at once.

                No need to get your knickers in a twist.
                Apology accepted. Take care now.
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              • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
                Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

                And watch your language.
                What's wrong? Don't like being called a moron, but it's ok if you call other people that?
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                • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

                  What's wrong? Don't like being called a moron, but it's ok if you call other people that?
                  He actually said
                  Now you look like a right lieing moron, which is what you are - moron, stop wasting my time
                  which is pretty strong. But nice of you to try and stir things up - as usual.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by Daniel Soulsby View Post

      You people that get really annoyed by spelling and grammar mistakes annoy the hell out of me! One guy up there being abusive and calling this guy a moron, he's trying to add value and instead of reading it you judge his spelling, sad, really sad, get a life boys.
      You have nearly 800 posts, yet you've only been "thanked" by other users 3 times... It's fairly evident that you know absolutely nothing about "adding value" to a forum.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tim Bazley
        I've just read the whole way through this rather amusing thread and learned lots about copywriting, grammar plus one or two life lessons too! My thanks to all concerned.
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  • You can't buy my art. However, you can buy one of my art courses. At least you know that most people don't say "arts." That's good. But you still don't get that most people say "a sales copy" and "sales copies."

    It really doesn't matter what you believe about my qualifications for teaching what techniques work for me and will most likely work for others. The fact is, they work well.

    I can't wait to see what my new sales copy ends up pulling in.


    P.S. When you can show me that non-copywriters write like sales copy is both a singular and plural, and never use "a sales copy," let me know.
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  • Pusaturi, well until you actually get digital versions of them, where you can search "a sales copy" then you can't be sure, but that is another matter. You still asked a good question.

    The answer is for the same reason in philosophy book after philosophy book, you will see them use words differently than the "public" uses them, such words as "knowledge."

    There are many words used differently in different areas of study. This is jargon.

    What about this point, though? If you were trying to sell a pestle to an audience that all pronounced it with the "T," would you pronounce it without the "T?"

    I think you wouldn't make as many sales if so.

    I remember when I used to debate religion a lot, and I learned to read Hebrew. I would hear people say Moses. I got so into my little world of Judaism that I said his name properly. Moshe. This didn't work well when talking with Christians. Who's Moshe? I sounded odd to them.

    I learned it is best to talk the way my audience talks, especially if I am trying to sell to them. I'm an atheist, but I do recall Paul saying become all things to all people. I am pretty sure that means the same thing as I am trying to convey.

    Just look at how many non-copywriters that come to this section of the forum use "a sales copy" or "sales copies." Why do you think that is? Surely, most of them are native English speakers like myself.
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    • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      I think you wouldn't make as many sells if so.
      HAHA! You troll! You totally got us all!

      Well played, but the jig is up now.
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  • Pusateri, no, I am being serious. And you didn't answer my question. Would you seriously use foreign talk like pronouncing the "T" when no one in your audience ever heard it pronounced that way?

    If so, would you at least explain why you pronounced it differently than they did?

    If you were trying to sell something to a Christian audience, would you call him Moshe or Moses? Seriously. Think about it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      Pusateri, no, I am being serious. And you didn't answer my question. Would you seriously use foreign talk like pronouncing the "T" when no one in your audience ever heard it pronounced that way?

      If so, would you at least explain why you pronounced it differently than they did?

      If you were trying to sell something to a Christian audience, would you call him Moshe or Moses? Seriously. Think about it.
      Oh...OK then...

      I would pronounce it properly.

      Correct pronunciation and usage is not foreign language, though some native speakers make it seem that way.

      Letting people get away with using terms improperly does not help them.

      Anyone using "a copy" or "sales copies" is going to be labeled ignorant by a knowledgeable audience. Your experience here is proof.

      Your justification at first was that your usage was correct. Now it seems to be that it's the usage of your intended audience, which doesn't know any better.

      Well, they don't know how to write copy either. Do you suggest reinforcing any incorrect notions they have about the subject, because that's what they already think?

      "Be all things to all people" does not mean "be wrong to get along."
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  • I didn't even notice that I had typed "sell" instead of "sales," not until I read your quote. But hopefully that is not why you didn't answer the question or see the point I made.
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  • If you check my first response, I said I don't want to use jargon, which I have said "hey check out sale copy about art" is. It sounds incorrect. I'm not going to use jargon that sounds incorrect to an audience that will also think it sounds like a non-native speaker that forgot to use the indefinite article.

    You can continue saying stuff like that, but not I refuse to. I would also say Moses to a Christian audience and not Moshe. I know it means a better response from my target audience. Know who you are targeting and what they are used to. That is my philosophy.
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    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      If you check my first response, I said I don't want to use jargon, which I have said "hey check out sale copy about art" is. It sounds incorrect. I'm not going to use jargon that sounds incorrect to an audience that will also think it sounds like a non-native speaker that forgot to use the indefinite article.

      You can continue saying stuff like that, but not I refuse to. I would also say Moses to a Christian audience and not Moshe. I know it means a better response from my target audience. Know who you are targeting and what they are used to. That is my philosophy.
      This whole point is absolute and utter BS and completely circular logic. You are in a copywriting forum. You are TALKING TO COPYWRITERS. Yet you insist on arguing that anyone who's not a copywriter says "a copy" or "sales copies".

      First off, if you're sharing advice with up and coming copywriters and presenting yourself as an expert, don't knock experts who are trying to help you by correcting you. It's called learning, which is something an expert is NEVER done with. In this forum, you ARE talking to copywriters, so you should be using the common jargon - that is the point that you yourself made in about 50 different posts in this utterly ridiculous thread.

      Second off, most people outside copywriting don't even know what the F*@# it is we do. How do I know this? If I say "I'm a copywriter", they almost instantly ask me how to obtain a copyright. That right there should tell you that most people outside advertising and marketing don't really use the word "copy" to describe what we write - it's usually an ad, a commercial, a sales letter, a brochure...ad nauseam.

      What frustrates me about this whole thread is that you're in a place where you can share knowledge AND learn from people who legitimately practice this skill day in and day out. You may be an entrepreneur who's figured out how to make money, but your attitude is pretty sucky.
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      • Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

        This whole point is absolute and utter BS and completely circular logic. You are in a copywriting forum. You are TALKING TO COPYWRITERS. Yet you insist on arguing that anyone who's not a copywriter says "a copy" or "sales copies".

        First off, if you're sharing advice with up and coming copywriters and presenting yourself as an expert, don't knock experts who are trying to help you by correcting you. It's called learning, which is something an expert is NEVER done with. In this forum, you ARE talking to copywriters, so you should be using the common jargon - that is the point that you yourself made in about 50 different posts in this utterly ridiculous thread.

        Second off, most people outside copywriting don't even know what the F*@# it is we do. How do I know this? If I say "I'm a copywriter", they almost instantly ask me how to obtain a copyright. That right there should tell you that most people outside advertising and marketing don't really use the word "copy" to describe what we write - it's usually an ad, a commercial, a sales letter, a brochure...ad nauseam.

        What frustrates me about this whole thread is that you're in a place where you can share knowledge AND learn from people who legitimately practice this skill day in and day out. You may be an entrepreneur who's figured out how to make money, but your attitude is pretty sucky.
        When did I present myself as an expert. I made it clear that this is the process I have found that is working for me right now, bringing in 3% conversion, and a good monthly income. This month is 5k.

        Hopefully, I get even better at writing copies so that I can make more sales.
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  • Daniel, I haven't made a million yet, but I am going to. I am quickly on my way there.
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  • Hey, Daniel, I plan to branch out from my art site and masteredit.net site to sell other products. I have always been a big horse betting fan and roulette. I see you affiliate offer is about a gambling site, which does have horse betting on it.

    Anyway, I was wondering, what kind of conversion rates does your sales copy get on average? And I mean for targeted traffic, which is the only kind of traffic I would send.
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  • Profile picture of the author RobKonrad
    Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post


    That's what I did. I learned to write sales copies. I am already a writer. I have sold short stories to magazines, written 6 novels, a good handful of screenplays, etc. I have several publish articles under different pseudonyms. I also used to be a top sales person. That honestly was enough to write a good sales copy.
    Hi, I'm Troy McClure, you may remember me from such successful copies projects as....
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  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
    So the word lieing put it over the top? Well considering you yourself said it was a mistake, his post calling you a liar wasn't exactly wrong. Sounds like you're just clinging for straws because you like to dish it out, but can't seem to take it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashera
    IMPORTANT: ah's not affiliatin' ennythin'. ah's not promotin' ennythin'. ah's not sellin' ennythin', unless yo' happen t'be interested in awesome art courses, which ah doubt yer.

    Here is how ah write sales copies thet haf a steady 3% cornvahshun rate. ah reckon thet's purdy fine fo' th' art indestry. ah sell mah art courses. Masterpaintin'now.com is mah site, whar yo' kin find examples of mah sales copies fo' reference purposes. They kin be applied t'enny produck. They is not limited t'art courses.

    Befo'e ah share mah secrets, yo' sh'd knows whuffo' a fine sales copy is so impo'tant. Befo'e ah had a sales copy, mah sales cornvahshun rates were below 1%. Thet blows. No wonner ah wasn't makin' fine money. Af'er makin' a quick sales copy, mah sales rates went up, even though th' copy was, blah. Enny sales copy is better than nothin' is whut ah larned, cuss it all t' tarnation.

    Af'er ah wrote a fine sales copy, mah sales jumped t'a steady 3% an' haf reJawjad so. This hyar is fo' etch course, which has a separeete sales copy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
      Originally Posted by Ashera View Post

      IMPORTANT: ah's not affiliatin' ennythin'. ah's not promotin' ennythin'. ah's not sellin' ennythin', unless yo' happen t'be interested in awesome art courses, which ah doubt yer.

      Here is how ah write sales copies thet haf a steady 3% cornvahshun rate. ah reckon thet's purdy fine fo' th' art indestry. ah sell mah art courses. Masterpaintin'now.com is mah site, whar yo' kin find examples of mah sales copies fo' reference purposes. They kin be applied t'enny produck. They is not limited t'art courses.

      Befo'e ah share mah secrets, yo' sh'd knows whuffo' a fine sales copy is so impo'tant. Befo'e ah had a sales copy, mah sales cornvahshun rates were below 1%. Thet blows. No wonner ah wasn't makin' fine money. Af'er makin' a quick sales copy, mah sales rates went up, even though th' copy was, blah. Enny sales copy is better than nothin' is whut ah larned, cuss it all t' tarnation.

      Af'er ah wrote a fine sales copy, mah sales jumped t'a steady 3% an' haf reJawjad so. This hyar is fo' etch course, which has a separeete sales copy.
      Point taken

      I like your sales copies. I'd like 10 copies please.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    The big problem is when people start making copies of your copies.

    Then you're just copying a copy, copy?
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    • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      The big problem is when people start making copies of your copies.

      Then you're just copying a copy, copy?
      If you've got a copy of a copy how do you know which one's the original?
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      Andrew Gould

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      • Profile picture of the author CopyMonster
        Originally Posted by Andrew Gould View Post

        If you've got a copy of a copy how do you know which one's the original?
        And I always thought a copy was by definition not original. Doh!

        One label I've always liked - "Genuine Copy" - used to describe knock-offs in Asian market stalls.
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        Scary good...
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  • I've been working on a facebook campaign. So far for every $80 I spend, I make a $40 profit. I am sure I could increase that, but it seems pretty good. I will have to see if it stays steady or not.

    If anyone has good facebook CPC articals, feel free to share.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    My head is so messed up right now.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      My head is so messed up right now.
      Been trying to tell you that for ages.

      Smoking hot,


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    Wow, fascinating and detailed post, OP! Good job!
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  • Profile picture of the author Beverley Boorer
    Sheesh what is wrong with everyone? masterpaintingnow has given some really cool info about writing sales copy - or should that be A sales copy, (lol) - and everyone descends like a pack of ravening wolves to tear the information and the person, to pieces.
    Personally I would like to thank this person for the time taken to try and offer some good value stuff and help others.
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  • Beverely, well, they didn't really say anything but that I said "sales copies" and "a sales copy." That is what they have been on and on about this whole time. Odd that.

    Angie, I don't need to be an expert copywriter to be a top sales person, which I used to be before I changed jobs. Also, my sales copies are doing pretty damn good. How many people can say they make 5k a month from IM?
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Overall, I guess the important thing is that you're doing something.

    I liked your art work.

    If things are going as good for you now as you say...they will only get better as you learn more about copywriting.

    Thanks for providing an interesting thread.
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  • My facebook ad is only getting a 1.2Percent conversion rate. Profitable but i'm going to try linking to a free video instead of the sales copy and see how that does.
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  • Profile picture of the author AshwaniGaur
    GAWDDDD!

    'Copy' is like sugar.
    It is treated as an uncountable noun like sugar, sand, salt or any of that shit...
    Its not a sugar, or sugars. I am an illiterate copywriter scraping a living who hasn't had a grammar lesson in eons ,so don't expect any further explanations.

    Secondly, I don't know why people like Malcolm Lambe are fighting with you. He did skybuilder, isn't that enough?

    Any Person Who Says "A Copy":
    #1. Isn't A Copywriter.
    #2. Hasn't Read A Single Book On Copywriting
    #3. Needs To Read The Gary Halbert Letters, All Of Them.
    #4. Add The Collier Letter Book Too...
    #5. Does NOT Get A Bad After-Taste After Saying 'A Copy'.

    Besides @TheCopyNazi, I was the one who originally compiled TheGaryHalbertLetters In The PDF....Just so you know.
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by AshwaniGaur View Post

      I was the one who originally compiled TheGaryHalbertLetters In The PDF....Just so you know.
      ...which doesn't belong to you.

      Did you get permission from Bond or Kevin Halbert?

      While both of them are totally approachable, friendly guys who LOVE freely sharing their father's legacy (from the website), they don't take kindly to squatters or those who misappropriate their family's intellectual property.

      Consider this a heads up.

      Best,

      Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author AshwaniGaur
    Thanks for the heads up...the PDF won't ever be shared.
    My bad, I should have read the terms.
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  • mrsray, yeah, if your product is worth lots of money, say $200 rather than $40, then for sure, lower conversion rates will still make you money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Can I order a copy please?

    By the way...

    Do you have the original I can see too?

    Cheers!

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author mrinternational
    A little humbleness, like a "thank you for the observation" could have gotten you help from experts and a dramatic increase in sales, like going from 3% conversions to 5-10%

    Instead you start arguing about minutiae, and with your attitude manage to piss off the people here that could actually make a dramatic impact in your business.
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    • Originally Posted by mrinternational View Post

      A little humbleness, like a "thank you for the observation" could have gotten you help from experts and a dramatic increase in sales, like going from 3% conversions to 5-10%

      Instead you start arguing about minutiae, and with your attitude manage to piss off the people here that could actually make a dramatic impact in your business.
      And exactly what evidence can you provide to support that claim that they could in fact rase the conversion rates on my products from 3% to 5-10%?

      As for the arguing, I am merely sticking to my guns as to why I use sales copies. "Many sales copy" might sound natural to those who use copy as both a singular and plural, but to the rest of the people in the world, it sounds like broken English.

      However, native English speakers always think it sounds right to say "many fish" and "a fish." We are used to that illogical construct. Notice, we still say "a fish." However, most aren't used to seeing something like, "Let me view copy written by Tom Hanks." It sounds completely wrong without the indefinite article. I don't care to sound wrong to the majority. My choice. I stand by it.

      If someone refused to give advice that would change my sales conversions from 3% to say 7% just because I choose to stand by my use of "a sales copy" and "sales copies" then that is their very odd choice. I like to help people, regardless if they have their own beliefs that differ from mine.

      I also see no reason why we shouldn't say "a sales copy" and "sales copies" because the phrases are identical to "A sales letter" and "sales letters." Who writes, "sales letter" when they means letters?

      When we say something like "check out my copy," we are refering to a sales letter.
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  • Profile picture of the author asha91
    OP needs to open his or her eyes and realize just because everybody is doing it, that doesn't mean it's right. I made the same mistake, but corrected myself when someone pointed it out. These people know what they are doing, and they wouldn't be successful if they didn't know simple English. Talk about fighting a losing battle.
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  • Ken, so if "sales copy" is not interchangable with "a sales letter" then why throughout the book Sales Copies that Sell does the copywriter refer to sales copies as sales letters?

    If "sales copy" isn't the same as a sales letter then please do tell me the difference.

    I am not asking about "copy" but "sales copy." Notice, throughout this thread, I don't talk about copy, but "sales copies."

    Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
      Originally Posted by masterpaintingnow View Post

      Ken, so if "sales copy" is not interchangable with "a sales letter" then why throughout the book Sales Copies that Sell does the copywriter refer to sales copies as sales letters?

      If "sales copy" isn't the same as a sales letter then please do tell me the difference.

      I am not asking about "copy" but "sales copy." Notice, throughout this thread, I don't talk about copy, but "sales copies."

      Thanks.
      A copy or copies is only correct if you are using them in the sense of a duplicate or duplicates.

      That is not the sense in which the word is used when speaking of marketing.

      Sales letter and copy are not interchangeable. A sales letter consists of copy. Copy does not consist of sales letters.

      Placing "sales" in front of the word copy changes nothing.

      Go read my post on the origin of the term:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...opywriter.html

      Copy is used in the same way as "news."

      You can have good news and you can have good copy.

      You can read a piece of news and you can read a piece of copy.

      But you can't have A news or A copy.

      Speaking of copies and newses both make you sound like Gollum.

      "Copies! We hates it, we hates it, we hates it forever!”
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