Is it really all about the Copywriting?

23 replies
After reading the threads here and in the War Room for the past few months, I see a common thread popping up.

"Learn Copywriting, and make a lot of money. Combine this with your own product ( regardless of niche), and you have a winning formula."

Is the above statement true? Is this what has finally clicked in my head?

I have always been afraid of studying copywriting. It looks pretty difficult, with a whole lot of reading and studying needed to done. Can anyone become an effective copywriter? I get intimidated at the thought of learning, let alone actually writing sales copy.

Encouragement and direction are much appreciated...If you have any
#copywriting
  • Profile picture of the author maxdog
    Check out Ben Hart
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Well, the very first internet marketing course I bought was 60% about
    copywriting and the rest about finding a niche and product creation.

    You can't escape copywriting if you are writing ANYTHING to sell.
    Doesn't mean that YOU have to be the expert, but you should have
    the basic ideas in place.

    -Ray Edwards
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    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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  • Profile picture of the author machinebearings
    I've probably not done as much reading on this subject as you have, but I would agree with the statement that Copywriting is key. When you think about it, copy is your interface with the reader. It will make or break you -- the way you communicate to them and how. It's the only way you can give them the information you want them to have so they can decide to make that purchase or not.

    Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery View Post

    I have always been afraid of studying copywriting. It looks pretty difficult, with a whole lot of reading and studying needed to done. Can anyone become an effective copywriter? I get intimidated at the thought of learning, let alone actually writing sales copy.
    I would say, work on getting through that initial fear. The thing with writing is, the more that you do it, the less intimidating it is. Even something so simple as posting in forums every day for an hour will help make writing come easier.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
    Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery View Post

    After reading the threads here and in the War Room for the past few months, I see a common thread popping up.

    "Learn Copywriting, and make a lot of money. Combine this with your own product ( regardless of niche), and you have a winning formula."

    Is the above statement true? Is this what has finally clicked in my head?

    I have always been afraid of studying copywriting. It looks pretty difficult, with a whole lot of reading and studying needed to done. Can anyone become an effective copywriter? I get intimidated at the thought of learning, let alone actually writing sales copy.

    Encouragement and direction are much appreciated...If you have any
    Charles, that is a false statement and I will tell you why.

    You can have the best copywriter in the universe to do your copy, and you can personally develop the best product ever created by man. But if you don't have eyes on the offer it is absolutely useless.

    The reverse also applies.

    You can have a 5 year old design a sales letter and you can sell a jar of air. If you can place the offer in front of millions of people, you will make money.

    The winning formula is in integrating both, but getting the offer in front of as many people as possible comes first hands down.

    Killer copy and a fantastic product WILL increase conversion, but if you don't have eyes on the offer you won't have any conversion to begin with.
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    • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
      Hey Charles - copywriting is critical.

      But really - to simplify the money-making formula for online business, it comes down to mastering 3 things...

      1. Niche research and opportunity assessment
      2. A well positioned product or service
      3. Marketing (most efficient and effective way of getting traffic)
      4. Copywriting or converting

      If any one of those is broken, then your business will flounder - AND the real challenge is to get all of this up and working at the same time.

      For example, if you start in a new niche with a new product, from zero traffic and little knowledge of copywriting then it's like trying to run in 4 different directions at the same time.

      That's why I like to recommend people start with a product that they know sells (removes the variables of niche, product position and copywriting) - learn to get relevant traffic and then discover what ELSE they want or how to improve what they are already buying.

      Jeff
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Lam
    Blah, blah, blah.... blah, blah, blah... blah, blah, blah...

    The best thing I EVER read was a marketer who challenged EVERYONE to have any kind of 'weapon' to generate sales. Everyone was talking about getting all the traffic, having the best product, have the perfect location, blah, blah, blah.

    He wanted just ONE THING.

    Hunger.

    You can have all the traffic, the perfect location, the perfect pitch, but if they're not hungry for it, so what?

    So even though I think copywriting is a huge part in making sales, there's just way too many things involved to say ONE thing is the most important.

    It's like saying your brain is the most important thing. Okay, you have a brain, but then nothing else works. What good are you?
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Based on my own experience, copywriting is extremely important. But there is another factor that is slightly more important and that is LOTS of targeted traffic. You can almost be successful presenting your offer in hieroglyphics as long as you're getting enough interested people to look at it. From there, it comes down to a numbers game.

    In my experience, the hierarchy of marketing success is this:

    ~> Lots of targeted traffic (it's a numbers game and if you have enough truly interested people looking at your offer, you'll sell your stuff)

    ~> Okay, reality time. The offer has to be presented in a compelling way. This is where good copywriting will dramatically increase your conversions. So yes, copywriting is important and a close second only to lots of traffic.

    ~> A presentable site that's appealing to the eye.

    That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it...
    Good Luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author imagebbs
      Was it not Gary Halbert (a legend in copywriting) who frequently talked about the essential component of a "starving crowd"? My experience has also bore this out...Copywriting is definitely important.... BUT a starving crowd is even more "basic" and foundational...you *need* that...

      Having great copy helps, but someone who is starving for a solution to their problem (or "hungry", as someone above said) sometimes ends up buying even if the copy isn't great...

      - Dave
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      • Profile picture of the author Dean Dhuli
        Yep, the copy is important

        ... but so is the product or offer
        ... and so is traffic or the crowd of hungry buyers willing to disperse with
        their hard-earned money for it

        So IMO, it is actually the combination of all these three elements that
        makes the product a success.

        The bigger marketers understand this truth and don't compromise in any of
        the three.

        The smaller and newer marketers at most times go wrong at one of these
        steps and the product doesn't do as well as it can and it should.

        Coming back to the point, you don't really need to be afraid of copywriting.

        Beginners can write copy in 3 simple steps:
        a) What are you offering?
        b) How can it improve the buyer's life
        c) How to get it?


        Hope this helps,

        Dean.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
    Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery View Post

    After reading the threads here and in the War Room for the past few months, I see a common thread popping up.

    "Learn Copywriting, and make a lot of money. Combine this with your own product ( regardless of niche), and you have a winning formula."

    Is the above statement true? Is this what has finally clicked in my head?

    I have always been afraid of studying copywriting. It looks pretty difficult, with a whole lot of reading and studying needed to done. Can anyone become an effective copywriter? I get intimidated at the thought of learning, let alone actually writing sales copy.

    Encouragement and direction are much appreciated...If you have any
    Once you learn copywriting -- you'll never look at marketing the same way. Copywriting takes a lot of patience, dedication and a willingness to accept and learn. If you want to learn copywriting -- then study the works of sugarman, bly, hopkins, ogilvy.

    Joe Sugarman said it himself "find a product that's already selling well -- and use compelling copy to sell it better"

    The above advice is a pure golden nugget and holds true for making money.
    Signature

    " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      It isn't all about copy, not by a long shot - it's about having
      something people really want.

      Of course if your offer is poorly communicated your
      prospects may not understand it - but great copywriting
      will not correct a dog product or offer, usually.
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      • Profile picture of the author dorothydot
        Uh, yes. It really is all about the copywriting. With a couple of caveats: you do have to have a reasonably good product that will live up to your copy; and you MUST be honest in your copywriting.

        Copywriting is a powerful tool. It can be used to hurt or to help people. Yes, it is an art - just like any other kind of writing is an art. But it is fun and when used properly and skillfully, it can make other people's lives better.

        That's why I'm a copywriter. I sincerely want to help people. And make a living, of course.

        And... did you really expect any other kind of answer when you post a question like this in a Copywriting Forum??

        Hope this helps,
        Dot
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        "Sell the Magic of A Dream"
        www.DP-Copywriting-Service.com

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        • Profile picture of the author Raydal
          Originally Posted by dorothydot View Post


          And... did you really expect any other kind of answer when you post a question like this in a Copywriting Forum??

          Hope this helps,
          Dot
          Small correction. This wasn't originally posted in the copywriting forum but
          was placed here by a moderator. I don't agree that ANYTHING that
          mentions "copywriting" should be sent to this section.

          I think this was a general enough question on how copywriting
          fits in with marketing on a whole and should have remained in the
          main forum.

          -Ray Edwards
          Signature
          The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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  • Profile picture of the author Janus
    This is a question that sports talk shows like to use. Who's the best? There is no one correct answer. Is it product, copy, marketing, etc.? Of course all have an impact affecting the bottom line. You will make or lose money money depending on the combination of all the factors mentioned. There are countless examples that anyone can use to support their view but doesn't simply boil down to the more you get right the greater your return?

    Pat
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert_Rand
    It's definitely not...

    I used to think it was as I've read and learned from all the greats.

    I love copywriting and yes, it is absolutely critical to making sales (and money)

    But the reality is that there are two components that literally dwarf copy:

    1) The list
    2) The offer

    In the online world this comes down to knowing how to drive targeted traffic to an offer that converts. In the offline world it's infomercials, mailing lists, print media...etc

    Either way, that's the name of the game. That's why Agora makes so much money. Not because they have the best copywriters, although they are certainly good. It's because they mail their offers out to big, targeted lists.
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    No. As i have found out the hard way. Somtimes being honestly passionate about your service product or niche, having a desire to deliver a memorable and honest experience, and being able to convey that in your message is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Angela Kambarian
    Hi, Charles.

    Two things.

    1. "Learn Copywriting and Make a Lot of Money" sounds like hype to ME.
    Yes, you can make a good living as a copywriter if you learn your
    craft, if you are passionate about it and know how to dig up good,
    well-paying clients. As a matter of fact, somy copywriters command
    a top dollar. But it will take some time before you get to that point.
    Besides, your success largely depends on your ability to initiate and
    build relationships and market yourself effectively. It is not only
    about writing. It is mostly about your business acumen and killer
    business instincts. On top of that, you need financial resources to reach your target audience. Direct mail remains one of the most effective marketing strategies. But it doesn't cost peanuts. So, if you have a full-time job--hang on to it. You may quit only after you get the ball rolling in the "copywriting department".

    2. Combine this with your own product ( regardless of niche), and you have a winning formula."

    In my opinion, there IS NO winning formula in business. Of course,
    there are proven, reliable and time-tested strategies that generate
    results for some people. But there are so many variables involved in
    the process -- the state of the economy, your target market, timing,
    luck, etc. These factors may have a profound impact on your campaign.
    Also, you are saying "regardless of niche". That sounds a bit naive to me.
    Your niche does matter. Especially in this economy. And your product
    should be interesting and valuable enough to get attention.

    Last but not least. You are trying to figure out if copywriting is the
    right field for you. I have a simple answer. Don't ask me or other members.
    Ask yourself! Deep down inside you have all the answers. Figuring it out
    is an internal process, not external. And if you ARE passionate about it,
    not matter how hard it may be, you will get the hang of it and eventually
    achieve the results you deserve. Good luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Angela Kambarian View Post

      Hi, Charles.

      Two things.

      1. "Learn Copywriting and Make a Lot of Money" sounds like hype to ME.
      Yes, you can make a good living as a copywriter if you learn your
      craft, if you are passionate about it and know how to dig up good,
      well-paying clients. As a matter of fact, somy copywriters command
      a top dollar. But it will take some time before you get to that point.
      Besides, your success largely depends on your ability to initiate and
      build relationships and market yourself effectively. It is not only
      about writing. It is mostly about your business acumen and killer
      business instincts. On top of that, you need financial resources to reach your target audience. Direct mail remains one of the most effective marketing strategies. But it doesn't cost peanuts. So, if you have a full-time job--hang on to it. You may quit only after you get the ball rolling in the "copywriting department".

      2. Combine this with your own product ( regardless of niche), and you have a winning formula."

      In my opinion, there IS NO winning formula in business. Of course,
      there are proven, reliable and time-tested strategies that generate
      results for some people. But there are so many variables involved in
      the process -- the state of the economy, your target market, timing,
      luck, etc. These factors may have a profound impact on your campaign.
      Also, you are saying "regardless of niche". That sounds a bit naive to me.
      Your niche does matter. Especially in this economy. And your product
      should be interesting and valuable enough to get attention.

      Last but not least. You are trying to figure out if copywriting is the
      right field for you. I have a simple answer. Don't ask me or other members.
      Ask yourself! Deep down inside you have all the answers. Figuring it out
      is an internal process, not external. And if you ARE passionate about it,
      not matter how hard it may be, you will get the hang of it and eventually
      achieve the results you deserve. Good luck!
      "Last but not least" - that's copywriting Death-by-Bunta right there. The cliché of all clichés. Fellow traveller to "At the end of the day".

      And why shouldn't he ask his peers? Especially if they're making a good quid out of it. Like me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
    I'm tired of repeating this, but I'll repeat it again, just so that people can start to absorb it.

    You could have Gary Halbert resurrected to do your copy, you can develop the best product ever created by man and it can be one the entire world starves for.

    If you don't get eyes to the offer it means absolutely nothing. It's all about the massive amounts of people you place the offer in front of. Everything else is important, but secondary.

    Look at the pet rock, no one was starving for it, the pitch was mediocre at best and the product was the most absurd and useless thing ever created, but the exposure it received generated millions in revenue. Enough said.

    Exposure first, everything else comes second. Massive exposure alone will make you money, regardless of everything else.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bigsofty
    Copywriting is how well you sell, if selling in writing.

    What you're selling, where and who to, make a difference, yes.


    B.
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    This man is living his dream. Are you...?
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  • Profile picture of the author sarahberra
    Yes, good quality content is essential. Selling something through your writing can generate sales when done effectively. First grab the reader in the first sentence and keep them interested in what you have to offer. Demonstrate your produce and finally close the sale. Action words like buy now and order now help also. You want to persuade your reader to take some type of action.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery View Post

    After reading the threads here and in the War Room for the past few months, I see a common thread popping up.

    "Learn Copywriting, and make a lot of money. Combine this with your own product ( regardless of niche), and you have a winning formula."

    Is the above statement true? Is this what has finally clicked in my head?

    I have always been afraid of studying copywriting. It looks pretty difficult, with a whole lot of reading and studying needed to done. Can anyone become an effective copywriter? I get intimidated at the thought of learning, let alone actually writing sales copy.

    Encouragement and direction are much appreciated...If you have any
    Mate, simple really. Write from the heart. Write short simple sentences. Write the way you speak. Abbreviate - don't say "do not", say "don't" . Don't say "I am going" say "I'm going". Now go and have a look at this guys first WSO.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...er-closed.html

    He brained it with that one. His second's not doing so well (he tells me). 'cause the headline is lame. I'm gonna doctor it for him. cheers, Mal.
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  • Profile picture of the author wrcato
    What is the diffrence between the adverage internet marketer and that of Dan Kennedy, Joe sugarman, Frank Kern and Jay Abraham? Besides there success. They all learn the art of copywriting, first.

    Dan Kennedy, the internationally renowned
    "Renegade Millionaire" - first learned to write copy
    from the legendary Gary Halbert.
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    William Cato
    Sit Down, Have A Cup Of Coffee
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    follow me on Twitter
    www.twitter.com/wrcato

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