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Clayton Makepeace does VSLs....

by shawnlebrun
41 replies
For those fellow copywriters who have some free
time today... this may interest you...

Inside Look at Writing Video Sales Letters

Clayton always delivers good content, even though the
sales pitch will be for a high-end copy seminar.

If you have an hour to spare, no doubt a free call
can give you some nuggets of advice.
#clayton #makepeace #vsls
  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Great News, Team Makepeace are back with a new gig.

    Hopefully Clayton and the gang will realise just how much we've missed "The Total Package" and his copywriting products.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author DigitalCopyWriter
    +1 Steve The Copywriter

    His products are amazing. However, I thought he's out of business (at least the publishing one) for about 1 - 2 years now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Yes, sad but true Digital.

    Moving a step closer to a luxury retirement Clayton and Wendy decided to wind down "The Total Package"

    But the website and archives are still there.

    This "new" course is the first one for a long while.

    And of all the things it has to be on VSL's (the last thing I ever consider doing).

    But I know they are all the rage.

    And it's bound to good.

    I'm so hoping he'll say -

    "Don't hold people prisoner - at least let them pause the thing" (in case the phone rings, or you need a coffee, and you won't have to start all over again...).

    "Don't take 17 mins to get to the point. And then go off again on 5 different tangents trying to do 3 up sells at the same time" (keep everything on track. About 7 - 9 mins is long enough for anyone - no matter how good it is. If it's super cool we can always replay it...after we've bought the stuff of course).

    "Don't keep doing those high speed animated hand, pen and graphic ones" (that artist must be truly knackered by now).

    "Just do copy on powerpoint maybe with a few stunningly good graphics" (rather than reinventing yourself as a B movie film director - stick with copywriting and put the camera back in the case)*


    Steve


    P.S. * To be fair if the stars of the show are natural performers - give them a great script, get the directors chair out and say "Action!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremey
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      "Don't keep doing those high speed animated hand, pen and graphic ones" (that artist must be truly knackered by now).


      That artist must truly be the hardest working man on the internet.
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  • Profile picture of the author DavidG
    He did an hour on VSL's in AWAI 2012 bootcamp...

    I couldn't go... but if you want a taste of what he'll tell you, purchase the home study 2012 bootcamp...

    Its a few hundred bucks, I think $300... VERY worth it.

    And I think that webinar is going to be an up-sell to his $5,000 seminar.

    It doesn't matter though, I'm sure whatever he says will be worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shazadi
    Clayton is my favorite. So talented but down to earth. Out of about 30 different books/ebooks I consider to be my top copywriting resources, I've learned the most from The Total Package... and it was all for free. Anyway, thanks for this! Looks like I'll be able to catch the conference right as I get back from work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Ceskavich
    Anyone know if this was recorded?
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    I don't know if it was recorded, but it was mostly a sales pitch for the AWAI seminar.

    Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    Hey Marvin,

    You're right, I listened to the first 10 minutes or so... and then clicked off.

    It sounded like they were simply reading from a prewritten sales page, with nothing
    but pitching the seminar.

    I've bought a ton of Clayton's stuff and also sat on many of his freebie webinars
    or teleconferences... and he always overdelivered.

    this one... not so much.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremey
      Pretty sure the whole call was prerecorded...I listened to most of it. Lots of info about why VSLs are the biggest, baddest thing in copywriting and marketing right now, and how Clayton's seminar will allow you to write your own ticket as a VSL copywriter. If I had $5,000 I would be in Tampa in April, but there wasn't really any useful information or tips about writing VSLs in this presell.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shazadi
      Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      I listened to the first 10 minutes or so... and then clicked off.
      Same here. After the "History of Copywriting 101" at the start I was ready to nod off. Glad to know I didn't miss much else. Bit disappointing, but as you said, this is more of an outlier experience for him...
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  • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
    I'm a huge fan of Clayton's, so saying this is hard for me.

    Not only did I click away after 20 minutes, but this webinar actually made me sad.

    It was a badly conceived pitchfest, and the hosting was so bad it was laughable. More importantly Clayton was bad.

    He sounded as if they were holding his family hostage if he didn't read from the prepared statement.

    Clayton is a guy I hold (not willing to put that in past tense yet) in such high regard. But this was beneath him. Way way beneath him. Like an academy award winner doing Internet porn. Sad.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Video Sales Letters is the new BIG thing...
      dang didn't know that!

      Where have AWAI been?

      Years behind.

      Best,
      Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Murdaugh
      VSL's are old news.

      The next big breakthrough is pre-recorded teleseminars to pitch $5,000 seminar seats.

      That was hard to listen to. But I still respect Clayton. He's human and makes mistakes just like us mere mortals.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Such a shame they didn't let Clayton do what he always did.

    In the old days you never noticed he was "pitching".

    He just gave out top class information - which was always so outstandingly good - you automatically ordered the course, program or whatever was for sale.

    And you were delighted that you could buy it.

    But not this time. As Vin said it's very sad.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    interesting.... here's a question for you... or rather an observation... anyone notice they didn't even use a VSL to sell the VSL seminar?

    why?
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    • Profile picture of the author DavidG
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      interesting.... here's a question for you... or rather an observation... anyone notice they didn't even use a VSL to sell the VSL seminar?

      why?
      Yeah I thought it was going to be an actual webinar too...

      Anyways, I told you guys it was going to be a pitch.

      But if you guys really want what you were expecting just purchase the boot camp for 2012... he delivers.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    clayton is a ninja copywriter in the biz.... BUT... the fact he's not selling using a VSL... but thats what he's going to teach... i dunno... that to me says something right there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Harlan
      Clayton's copy was always first rate.

      I bought several of his early products and was under-impressed.

      Then when he didn't come to GB's shindig and was the ONLY major player missing, I knew something was up.

      So he did his own 5K seminar.

      Friends of mine who went - recognized stars in their own right - told me it was terrible and one fell asleep.

      But working with AWAI means stupid money for him.

      And who will know the difference anyway?

      Not the mice that AWAI turns out...
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

        Clayton's copy was always first rate.

        I bought several of his early products and was under-impressed.

        Then when he didn't come to GB's shindig and was the ONLY major player missing, I knew something was up.

        So he did his own 5K seminar.

        Friends of mine who went - recognized stars in their own right - told me it was terrible and one fell asleep.

        But working with AWAI means stupid money for him.

        And who will know the difference anyway?

        Not the mice that AWAI turns out...
        Okay, I'll bite.

        I own all of Clayton's products. Like any other marketer (even ones like Dan Kennedy and Jay Abraham), they vary in strength. Some of them are better than others. And like most info-marketers, the more expensive the product, the higher level and quality of material you'll find in the product.

        I love Clayton's teachings but he'll be the first one to admit that he's not a strong public speaker. Clayton is one of those guys who you listen to, to learn all of the top-notch stuff he knows and put his platform speaking deficiencies out of your mind. Dan Kennedy is another one who isn't great at public speaking but still delivers great information.

        Power Marketing Summit was Clayton's first ever seminar event... he says so early in the event. He was visibly nervous in the video.

        I'm already committed to attending two different seminars in April so there's no way I'd have gone to Clayton's event in Florida... I absolutely HATE the entire airport experience so there's no way I'd do it 3 weekends in a given month.

        As for why Clayton didn't make Gary's event... only he knows why.

        Seeing that he's married with kids (like you, me, and countless other copywriters), maybe he had a family commitment that he could not back out of. Several years ago, I had to back out of Perry Marshall's Autoresponder workshop as a copywriting "assistant" for the paid attendees because of a family commitment that I could NOT get out of.

        What I do know is that Clayton has spoken glowingly about Gary on his blog and several of his products... he's interviewed Gary for his blog as well... so I doubt his non-attendance was due to any bad blood.

        Re: AWAI. It depends on who it is.

        Matt Furey's presentations and course are supposedly quite good... I've heard positive things about Jay White's program too.

        I've heard some of their speakers who were bad IMHO... I have not heard good things about their main copywriting course either.

        But each time I've heard one of Makepeace's AWAI presentations (recordings not in person), it's been solid information because that's how Clayton is. And at $5K per head, I'm sure Clayton is going to bring his A-game because that's how he is. Dan Kennedy's Business of Copywriting seminar through AWAI a few years ago was the same thing... AWAI style marketing but the seminar itself was Kennedy only teachings.

        My 3 cents,

        Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      clayton is a ninja copywriter in the biz.... BUT... the fact he's not selling using a VSL... but thats what he's going to teach... i dunno... that to me says something right there.
      Dave,

      It's AWAI's marketing. It's their mantra that they do all of the marketing and copywriting... even if they aren't the best choice for it. They did it with Dan Kennedy several years ago... they've done it with their outside expert info-products too. And they're doing it with the upcoming Makepeace event.

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    Now I don't want to get into a scrap over Mr Bencivenga and Mr Makepeace.

    No need because in my view GB is legend no 1. CM is legend No 2.

    I always thought they were great friends (when you read the interviews that CM did with GB you can't help but feel they are).

    And I've always been impressed with all their products.

    (Unfortunately I've always very unimpressed with the AWAI products).

    I remember an interview CM did with John Carlton who was astonished that CM wasn't going to the GB 100 Seminar. CM did say he very much wanted to, but had "family commitments" over that weekend.


    Also and I could be incorrect - but I think CM's "Power Marketing Summit" was staged before "GB's 100 Seminar"

    Apologies if I have got the dates wrong (they were both some time ago).



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    • Profile picture of the author Harlan
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post


      Also and I could be incorrect - but I think CM's "Power Marketing Summit" was staged before "GB's 100 Seminar"

      Apologies if I have got the dates wrong (they were both some time ago).



      Steve
      Nope. It was after.
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    • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      Now I don't want to get into a scrap over Mr Bencivenga and Mr Makepeace.

      No need because in my view GB is legend no 1. CM is legend No 2.

      I always thought they were great friends (when you read the interviews that CM did with GB you can't help but feel they are).

      And I've always been impressed with all their products.

      (Unfortunately I've always very unimpressed with the AWAI products).

      I remember an interview CM did with John Carlton who was astonished that CM wasn't going to the GB 100 Seminar. CM did say he very much wanted to, but had "family commitments" over that weekend.


      Also and I could be incorrect - but I think CM's "Power Marketing Summit" was staged before "GB's 100 Seminar"

      Apologies if I have got the dates wrong (they were both some time ago).



      Steve

      There's really only one logical way to decide if Clayton or Gary
      was a better copywriter... Celebrity Claymation Deathmatch... where
      they fight to the death using just a pen and paper...
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      • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
        Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

        There's really only one logical way to decide if Clayton or Gary
        was a better copywriter... Celebrity Claymation Deathmatch... where
        they fight to the death using just a pen and paper...
        Good idea.

        You could write the copy to promote it.
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      • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
        Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

        There's really only one logical way to decide if Clayton or Gary
        was a better copywriter... Celebrity Claymation Deathmatch... where
        they fight to the death using just a pen and paper...
        "Oooh.. Bencivenga just CLOBBERED Makepeace with that huge pile of proof... OUCH!"

        "Woah... look how hot and bothered Makepeace just made Bencivenga with that scorching emotional outrage! That's gonna leave a scar..."
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

        There's really only one logical way to decide if Clayton or Gary
        was a better copywriter... Celebrity Claymation Deathmatch... where
        they fight to the death using just a pen and paper...
        Would bullet points be allowed?
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
        Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

        There's really only one logical way to decide if Clayton or Gary
        was a better copywriter... Celebrity Claymation Deathmatch... where
        they fight to the death using just a pen and paper...
        If it was a pro wrestling style match, Makepeace would show up with all of the A-List copywriters he's personally trained over the years as his ring-side enforcers. Gary could find himself getting stampeded by Carline Anglade-Cole, Parris Lamprolas (spelling?), Kent Komae, Bob Hutchinson, and Brad Petersen.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      Originally Posted by Harlan View Post


      Then when he didn't come to GB's shindig and was the ONLY major player missing, I knew something was up.
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post


      I remember an interview CM did with John Carlton who was astonished that CM wasn't going to the GB 100 Seminar. CM did say he very much wanted to, but had "family commitments" over that weekend.
      Thanks for clearing up the mystery Steve.

      Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    You're right it was after.

    Don't think it matters a great deal.

    There was a reasonable time difference - and they weren't competing against each other.


    Anyway... I've had the pleasure, better make that an honour, in chatting to both GB and CM obviously not at the same seminar.

    And they really are genuinely great people.

    Hate to brag about it but it was amazingly cool.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Thanks. Probably gonna listen to this today.

    Pitchfest or not... I've got not one negative thing to say about Makepeace. The guy's teachings have literally changed my life and I owe him more than I can ever repay.

    (By the way, how can a copywriter NOT learn from a pitchfest? Whether it's content or a pitchfest, you're learning something either way lol... You can't lose.)
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    mike... i hear ya, but again, it makes no sense.

    you're selling a course/seminar on writing vsl's but you aren't using a vsl to sell it?

    not hating on clayton... he's awesome, but to me, seeing that, it speaks volumes, you'd have to be a sucker to attend.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      mike... i hear ya, but again, it makes no sense.

      you're selling a course/seminar on writing vsl's but you aren't using a vsl to sell it?

      not hating on clayton... he's awesome, but to me, seeing that, it speaks volumes, you'd have to be a sucker to attend.
      Live online events like webinars and calls are better for selling anything high ticket.

      It wouldn't make sense to use a VSL to sell this.

      That doesn't mean Makepeace isn't making a killing selling with VSLs.

      You gotta use the right tool for the job.
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Murdaugh
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      you're selling a course/seminar on writing vsl's but you aren't using a vsl to sell it?

      not hating on clayton... he's awesome, but to me, seeing that, it speaks volumes, you'd have to be a sucker to attend.
      Like Jason mentioned, video isn't how you sell $5,000 seminars.

      I'm not involved with AWAI, I haven't been through the funnel for this. My guess is that this a product at the top of their funnel. So they're probably firing on a few different cylinders. Direct mail, exclusive invitations/steep discounts for certain customers - probably some selling from the stage at other live events, probably a lot of phone calls to house lists, etc, etc.

      I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty confident that the tele-seminar is just one part of the bigger picture.

      VSL's are great for front-end and mid-priced products, but they don't make sense for this.

      Then again, how much "convincing" do they need to do? The call mentioned I think 75 spots?

      I don't think it'd be too tough to find 75 marketers willing to pay $5k for Clayton's help on their promos, or 75 copywriters who'd be willing to pay $5k to be able to say that they trained with Clayton and possibly strike up a relationship with him.

      It depends on how you look at it. Most people would probably think you'd have to be a sucker. Others may see it as the deal of a lifetime.

      I understand what you're saying, but it's not like Clayton has anything to prove when it comes to selling ability. He's not pretending to be anything that he's not.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by Scott Murdaugh View Post

        I don't think it'd be too tough to find 75 marketers willing to pay $5k for Clayton's help on their promos, or 75 copywriters who'd be willing to pay $5k to be able to say that they trained with Clayton and possibly strike up a relationship with him.
        Exactly.

        In fact, there are people who'd pay $5,000 just to have dinner with Clayton.

        Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    JP... I watch and observe what they do, not what they're selling.

    They're using a sales letter to sell an event that is selling you why vsl's are the thing to do...(as opposed to writing "old school" sales letters)

    if thats the case, I dunno dude... i'd expect to see a vsl selling me since you're telling me they're that good.

    its like the guy telling you facebook traffic is the best... you can make a killing on it... it's the way to get rich... blah blah blah... yet he gets all his traffic and makes all his money from affiliate promo's.

    they're telling you this "tool" is the thing... but they're not using that "tool" themselves to sell that thing to you.

    sounds contradicting and incongruent.

    what do i know?
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