Conversational Copywriting

by Mark Andrews Banned
16 replies
How important is it for you to enter the conversation going on inside your prospects mind when presenting a product or service to your target market?

Can you demonstrate below how you might enter the conversation going on inside your ideal prospects mind when writing direct response sales letters?

Lets see what you can come up with.

Smoking hot,


Mark Andrews
#conversational #copywriting #copywriting advice #copywriting help #copywriting tips
  • Profile picture of the author Moriarty
    I would say it is paramount - if that is, your aim is to have an effective sales letter.

    As you say, the problem is how to imagine yourself in someone else's shoes. There are several ways - one is a process of refinement that relies on split-testing. You have two different messages and one speaks to your prospect (= engages/converses with them). The winner is then refined more. Eventually you get a reasonable level of engagement.

    The second way is more intuitive. It is the sort of thing that Howie Jacobson (askHowie.com – AdWords Help, Advice and Tools) is a past master at. He calls it his avatar method (or somesuch). Now you have to imagine your prospect in every facet of their being, down to the name of their dog and the number of beer bottles in their fridge. Oh, and their favorite pop star. The problem with this method is that it is impossibly hard to do, as it relies on your imagination and this is a faculty that is very poorly used in our society.

    Another side to this is to find out the conversation that your prospect is going to have with the people you are writing for. So make sure you know the way in which they speak! Because if you write as yourself you are presenting yourself not them - in other words a very minor form of misrepresentation on their part.

    Does this help any?
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxReferrals
    Carlton calls it Tales from the Bar Room I believe. Essentially speaking as you
    were to someone sitting next to you who is telling why he has the problem
    that he does
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonwebb
    Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

    How important is it for you to enter the conversation going on inside your prospects mind when presenting a product or service to your target market?

    Can you demonstrate below how you might enter the conversation going on inside your ideal prospects mind when writing direct response sales letters?

    Lets see what you can come up with.

    Smoking hot,


    Mark Andrews
    entering into a consumers mind is hard work. What does he like, what does he fear what are his goals. Conversational copy you have to assume friendship. You talk like you know him because you do know him. You know him because in same ways you are him. You can relate to him.
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  • Profile picture of the author UKCopyKing
    Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

    How important is it for you to enter the conversation going on inside your prospects mind when presenting a product or service to your target market?

    Can you demonstrate below how you might enter the conversation going on inside your ideal prospects mind when writing direct response sales letters?

    Lets see what you can come up with.

    Smoking hot,


    Mark Andrews
    It's not just important, in my opinion it's essential. It's also extremely difficult.

    Not only do you have to thoroughly research your target audience to come up with a "character" to write to, you also have to delve deeper into your readers real insecurities and fears - this can be really hard as people are naturally closed on their own failings.

    Put in the research time and it becomes much easier.

    Good luck.

    Trev
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  • Profile picture of the author rollinrock
    Ok, first I'd like to say, entering the prospects head is a process. You don't tap into one source and bingo you found the pot of gold.

    Having said that, here's how I go about it. I like to tap into forums and see what they are complaining about. I make note of any special lingo they use related to the market.

    Next it includes a series of testing and refining until you hit the sweet spot and people really feel like they understand you.

    Another way you can check buyer habits is by using amazon. Go a search for your market. If you find nothing maybe you need a better market.

    Next pay close attention to what products other have bought. This will give you an insight into what these people will also be interested in.

    The last thing I have just started looking into is buyer habits rather than trying to pinpoint every detail of the demographics.

    After reading the Power of Habits. This book turned me onto why people "do" what they do. You might be surprised what you learn.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
      Originally Posted by rollinrock View Post

      Ok, first I'd like to say, entering the prospects head is a process. You don't tap into one source and bingo you found the pot of gold.
      Remind me to never hire you to write copy.

      You should absolutely be inside your prospect's collective minds from sentence one.

      The process is leading the conversation to your inevitability.

      Bingo.

      Pot of gold.

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonwebb
        Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

        Remind me to never hire you to write copy.

        You should absolutely be inside your prospect's collective minds from sentence one.

        The process is leading the conversation to your inevitability.

        Bingo.

        Pot of gold.

        Mark
        I think what he meant is that you can't get to know your target audience from one source. Its a extended process to get to know them intimately. I could be wrong tho
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Or in the furniture movers case, bypass the rapport building and conversations in their mind and go straight for the knock-out blow.

          A Texas furniture removal company did by telling the buyers to get answers to questions that should be asked and answered because of their importance.

          Naturally set up the competition as being inferior should they go and ask those tough questions of the others.

          After 12 months of this onslaught it forced the closure of some players and the biggest one in the market was a skeleton to what it was.

          You don't get that kind of killer power from being the nice sounding guy.

          Best,
          Ewen
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          • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
            Banned
            Actually you do Ewen not that I'm disagreeing with you. Or if I am then it's only slightly so.

            Case in point, just over 2 years ago I wrote the sales copy for an appliance repair company in Chicago. Directly entered into the conversation going on inside the potential customers mind. Answered all of their concerns mostly by way of a shed load of bullet point benefits which were very quick and easy to read, grasp and understand.

            Now this company on the verge of bankruptcy at the time when they asked me for help, the conversational copy I supplied them with, it very quickly turned their fortunes around.

            Just 4 weeks after supplying the sales copy for their homepage to them they were once again well and truly back in business and killing their competition locally.

            In fact, for homepage sales copy for a small business it was my best ever conversion rate - 1 in every 2 visitors to the website taking my direct call to action. A huge, by any stretch of the imagination conversion rate of 50%.

            In the past 2 years plus this company on the back of this sales copy supplied, it's generated in excess of $1.2 million in revenue.

            No right hook, no left jabs involved, just good honest info laden with benefits which spoke directly to their target audience mind set.

            Smoking hot,


            Mark Andrews
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            • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
              Here's how my example works Mark.

              In the appliance and furniture removal business,
              the people have already have made up their mind to buy,
              just working out who to buy from.

              Most have a loose criteria in choosing the company they will buy from.

              So knowing this, as smart marketers/ad writers, we bring into play fear that they may be making a mistake and bring to their attention some new pieces of information
              they hadn't considered which will effect the outcome they want.

              We become their advocate by not letting them make a mistake.

              It resets their buying criteria.

              Those that have a set in stone buying criteria on their shopping list can be swayed to change once a new piece of information is placed in front of them.

              I did this for a new web design guy.

              Got 25k worth of annual contracts in 2 days of running that style of ad.

              Became the most ripped off ad fow web designers on the internet.

              Not saying not to enter the conversation of your prospects at all.

              Just sometimes different methods are called for in different situations.

              Recently Steve called me in to counter the this style of ad that a competitor was using.
              Obviously you couldn't expect to use the same method to beat him. Came in with a narrow focus on what the prospects biggest fear is and did everything to dissolve it.

              So in a way I was entering the conversation, as you put it, in this situation.

              I've done it for a previous business I owned where the sole focus was taking away the fear and hassle that the type of business was renowned for.

              Jay Abraham calls it risk reversal.

              However as you point out it, all starts with knowing
              what is their thought process at each step of the buying process and matching it in your ad, even if it means challenging their existing thinking.

              Good conversation here, thanks.

              Best,
              Ewen




              Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

              Actually you do Ewen not that I'm disagreeing with you. Or if I am then it's only slightly so.

              Case in point, just over 2 years ago I wrote the sales copy for an appliance repair company in Chicago. Directly entered into the conversation going on inside the potential customers mind. Answered all of their concerns mostly by way of a shed load of bullet point benefits which were very quick and easy to read, grasp and understand.

              Now this company on the verge of bankruptcy at the time when they asked me for help, the conversational copy I supplied them with, it very quickly turned their fortunes around.

              Just 4 weeks after supplying the sales copy for their homepage to them they were once again well and truly back in business and killing their competition locally.

              In fact, for homepage sales copy for a small business it was my best ever conversion rate - 1 in every 2 visitors to the website taking my direct call to action. A huge, by any stretch of the imagination conversion rate of 50%.

              In the past 2 years plus this company on the back of this sales copy supplied, it's generated in excess of $1.2 million in revenue.

              No right hook, no left jabs involved, just good honest info laden with benefits which spoke directly to their target audience mind set.

              Smoking hot,


              Mark Andrews
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  • ...it would be helpful if our prospects are spending all day and most of the night with the one and only thought - agonising about the dreadful dilemma that the product or service we're writing for is gong to solve.

    They're not.

    If only they were - bang! - with good to excellent copy - we would have a 99.97% conversation rate.

    The 0.03% who didn't buy had a fortunate momentary lapse of that awful emotion and went back to thinking about something else. Good for them we're designed to avoid pain and gain pleasure.


    But we can powerfully remind the good people in our target audience that they do have the "problem" that we'll be thrilled to solve for them. It'll immediately shoot back to the surface.

    And they'll ponder...

    "Dammit, good point, I should handle this, so what are you selling?...And (they're also thinking) please don't waste my time, it had better be an answer that works..."


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
    Banned
    Originally Posted by thugpoet View Post


    entering into a consumers mind is hard work.
    Originally Posted by UKCopyKing View Post


    It's not just important, in my opinion it's essential. It's also extremely difficult.

    Trev
    Hard work?

    Extremely difficult?

    Why? What's hard wok, what's difficult about it?

    Look, people love to talk. By and large they love to communicate with other people. Effective communication is after all, all about asking questions. Taking an interest in the other person you're talking to. Listening to their concerns and answering their concerns with solutions which simply move them away from pain to pleasure. In a nutshell.

    What's difficult about that? We all do it quite naturally all the time every day.

    Just because it's in written form doesn't make the process any more difficult. Sorry fella's but you both completely lost me there. The only difficulty is in your own mind.

    Max got it bang on the nail. Simply pretend the person you're trying to reach across to is sitting across the table from you.

    Put yourself directly into your target market shoes and understand their problem from their perspective. Now when writing sales copy, all you need to do is to simply enter the conversation going on inside their own mind.

    What are your target markets concerns?

    What is keeping your ideal buyer up at night worrying about the problem they're faced with?

    What is their ideal solution?

    What ideally are they searching for?

    If you know your product or service is the best thing for them to help them solve their own problem by means of the solution you can provide for them, naturally this person on coming across your sales copy, they're going to have concerns, questions, running through their mind. They need some form of reassurance. They'll want to know that you're fully competent to carry out the task at hand.

    Without seeing the product in question or experiencing the solution directly first hand, at first quite naturally their defenses are going to be up. They're going to have some doubts in their mind.

    Through careful research into these problems faced by your prospect, your lead, you'll get to know their concerns intimately. In other words, you'll understand their problem inside out. You'll be able to effectively switch out from your own thought processes directly into the thought processes running through the mind of the person who you're trying to get to take your direct call to action on behalf of your client.

    A copywriter therefore, it's his or her responsibility to communicate the benefits of the business concerned by means of answering the questions running through the mind of their ideal buyer.

    Now we've all seen ads which are screaming out, this is what we do or this is what we can do for you. Bang. Bang. Bang. Full of hype. Essentially telling the person, slamming it into their conscious mind to call this number now or whatever else the call to action is. About as impersonal as it gets.

    Conversion rate if you take this approach? Screaming at the other person, well, they're probably not going to take much notice of you are they? At best, they'll probably just ignore you. Because when you do this, you're demonstrating through your own words, that you're not actually all that interested in the thoughts, feelings and emotions running through their mind.

    Effective copywriting is all about entering a dialogue with your readers. Bringing yourself down to your prospects level. Treating them as you yourself want to be treated by others.

    Do you appreciate it when other businesses try to convince you into a call to action by means of a hard sell? Precisely. Exactly. Nail. Head.

    On the other hand, if you ask their questions for them on their behalf you're showing those readers you understand their problem intimately from their unique perspective. And what does this approach do? It engenders trust and aids your credibility.

    Written sales copy is simply communication. No different to opening your mouth, asking questions verbally, listening to the other party, chatting with one another.

    So an ad which simply says, this is who we are, this is what we do, call this number now without answering your potential buyers questions basically demonstrates complete ignorance on your part.

    When you write an ad like this, you're essentially saying, "We're not really all that interested in you as a customer, as a buyer, all we're interested in is taking your money off you and you better be thankful for it."

    Creating friends (or in this case buyers) is all about making friends with people.

    Now, who do you naturally warm to?

    Do you warm to the person who on meeting them talks about themselves only?

    Do you feel naturally drawn towards this person?

    Or do you feel more naturally drawn towards the person who like you, asks you lots of questions and takes an interest in your life? The answer is obvious and this parallel applies equally so to copywriting / salesmanship-in-print.

    Truth is we all feel repelled by pushy people. Car salesmen have a terrible reputation for this. And they'd surely do much better if they turned off the hard sell and asked questions taking a genuine interest in a potential customers exact needs.

    By simply asking questions, taking a genuine warm interest in the needs of the potential buyer they can more easily bring this potential lead on side by offering them a car which suits their needs perfectly.

    Let's use an example to illustrate the point...

    Take a home removal company for example. A couple have recently sold their home and they want to move across state to their new home on a certain date.

    In advance they start looking for a home removal company. In their mind they have questions, concerns...

    Does this company have a solid reputation?

    How long have they been in business?

    Are they reliable, punctual, careful and considerate?

    Are their staff members, the actual removal men themselves, are they courteous and polite? Non smokers?

    Is the removal company vehicle fleet clean and tidy and fully mechanically maintained?

    What is their breakages record like? Are they fully insured?

    Do they have glowing reviews left by previous customers?

    Will they make our home move easy, painless and stress free?

    You get the picture.

    Now one removal company they have a website, an ad for their company services.

    This couple, together they look at it...


    ABC Removals

    Are you moving house soon?

    Guaranteed the cheapest prices in town.
    Why are our prices so low?

    Our fleet of older vehicles though not the most
    modern fleet in the state are on the whole totally reliable.

    For this reason, you need to call us today
    when you're ready to move house.

    Call this number now for a free quote:

    00000 000000


    An extreme example perhaps. And yes, a terrible ad by any stretch of the imagination!

    Case in point, would you feel attracted to or repelled by this offer to help you move home?

    Would you feel compelled to call this number without delay?

    Would you feel this particular company are the best home removal company to look after your needs on perhaps one of the most stressful days of your life?

    Probably not.

    How about if on the other hand your ad read something like this?...


    Kiss goodbye to the stresses of moving home
    with ABC Removals (est 1982).

    Accredited home removal company and winner of
    several prestigious awards for excellent service...
    ABC Removals aim to make your house move
    as pain free as possible.

    We understand the needs of our customers intimately
    which is why prior to helping you move home,
    we'll meet with you to discuss creating a perfect
    home moving plan for you on the day.

    We understand each of our customers likes to
    do things their own particular way and
    each customer has their own unique needs.

    Which is why we will plan everything in advance
    with you with incredible attention to detail to
    ensure your home move goes without a hitch
    (guaranteed or your money back).

    We thrive on complete customer satisfaction!

    Our staff are all fully qualified and trained.

    We take great pride ensuring 100% customer satisfaction.

    All home removal staff are clean shaven, polite
    and courteous and will handle everything you
    can throw at them with complete professionalism.

    All of our staff are fully law enforcement vetted
    to ensure your complete peace of mind.

    Forget spending days packing and unpacking -
    our complete service is designed to be completely
    hands off - we take all the strain
    so you don't have to:

    • Discuss exactly what you need and create a moving plan
    • Carefully pack and label your house contents the day before you move
    • Safely transport all your contents in our smart branded trucks
    • Unload all the boxes into the right rooms of your new home
    • Re-assemble your furniture
    • We even remove any unwanted packaging!

    Okay so you get the picture.

    It's all about building up in advance a rapport with your intended target market. Presenting your company products and services in a personable, professional and friendly manner.

    A conversation is easy. You simply open your mouth and start asking questions and when the other person you're addressing answers you, shut your mouth and listen carefully to what they have to say.

    Writing sales copy is not so very different.

    Likewise, writing conversational copy is easy when you know how.

    Just as you would in verbal communication, in written form, just imagine (by placing yourself directly into the shoes of the person you're trying to reach to bring on side) ask their questions for them in your sales copy.

    Next, after you've posed a question, simply answer it giving the potential buyer every reason to not only believe you but also to trust your written word.

    The marketplace dictates who will be the winners and losers, which companies or businesses will make a profit. When you directly enter the pain currently being experienced by your copywriting client or within your own business, just do your best to address their concerns conversationally to reassure them you're the ideal answer to their prayers.

    Do this with a strong call to action and you'll almost definitely see your conversion rate rise exponentially.

    Please feel welcome to discuss any of these points or do feel free to add your own thoughts down below...

    I hope this proves to be of benefit to a few of you.

    Smoking hot,


    Mark Andrews
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7692445].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author UKCopyKing
      Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

      Hard work?

      Extremely difficult?

      Why? What's hard wok, what's difficult about it?

      Look, people love to talk. By and large they love to communicate with other people. Effective communication is after all, all about asking questions. Taking an interest in the other person you're talking to. Listening to their concerns and answering their concerns with solutions which simply move them away from pain to pleasure. In a nutshell.

      What's difficult about that? We all do it quite naturally all the time every day.

      Just because it's in written form doesn't make the process any more difficult. Sorry fella's but you both completely lost me there. The only difficulty is in your own mind.

      Max got it bang on the nail. Simply pretend the person you're trying to reach across to is sitting across the table from you.

      Put yourself directly into your target market shoes and understand their problem from their perspective. Now when writing sales copy, all you need to do is to simply enter the conversation going on inside their own mind.

      What are your target markets concerns?

      What is keeping your ideal buyer up at night worrying about the problem they're faced with?

      What is their ideal solution?

      What ideally are they searching for?

      If you know your product or service is the best thing for them to help them solve their own problem by means of the solution you can provide for them, naturally this person on coming across your sales copy, they're going to have concerns, questions, running through their mind. They need some form of reassurance. They'll want to know that you're fully competent to carry out the task at hand.

      Without seeing the product in question or experiencing the solution directly first hand, at first quite naturally their defenses are going to be up. They're going to have some doubts in their mind.

      Through careful research into these problems faced by your prospect, your lead, you'll get to know their concerns intimately. In other words, you'll understand their problem inside out. You'll be able to effectively switch out from your own thought processes directly into the thought processes running through the mind of the person who you're trying to get to take your direct call to action on behalf of your client.

      A copywriter therefore, it's his or her responsibility to communicate the benefits of the business concerned by means of answering the questions running through the mind of their ideal buyer.

      Now we've all seen ads which are screaming out, this is what we do or this is what we can do for you. Bang. Bang. Bang. Full of hype. Essentially telling the person, slamming it into their conscious mind to call this number now or whatever else the call to action is. About as impersonal as it gets.

      Conversion rate if you take this approach? Screaming at the other person, well, they're probably not going to take much notice of you are they? At best, they'll probably just ignore you. Because when you do this, you're demonstrating through your own words, that you're not actually all that interested in the thoughts, feelings and emotions running through their mind.

      Effective copywriting is all about entering a dialogue with your readers. Bringing yourself down to your prospects level. Treating them as you yourself want to be treated by others.

      Do you appreciate it when other businesses try to convince you into a call to action by means of a hard sell? Precisely. Exactly. Nail. Head.

      On the other hand, if you ask their questions for them on their behalf you're showing those readers you understand their problem intimately from their unique perspective. And what does this approach do? It engenders trust and aids your credibility.

      Written sales copy is simply communication. No different to opening your mouth, asking questions verbally, listening to the other party, chatting with one another.

      So an ad which simply says, this is who we are, this is what we do, call this number now without answering your potential buyers questions basically demonstrates complete ignorance on your part.

      When you write an ad like this, you're essentially saying, "We're not really all that interested in you as a customer, as a buyer, all we're interested in is taking your money off you and you better be thankful for it."

      Creating friends (or in this case buyers) is all about making friends with people.

      Now, who do you naturally warm to?

      Do you warm to the person who on meeting them talks about themselves only?

      Do you feel naturally drawn towards this person?

      Or do you feel more naturally drawn towards the person who like you, asks you lots of questions and takes an interest in your life? The answer is obvious and this parallel applies equally so to copywriting / salesmanship-in-print.

      Truth is we all feel repelled by pushy people. Car salesmen have a terrible reputation for this. And they'd surely do much better if they turned off the hard sell and asked questions taking a genuine interest in a potential customers exact needs.

      By simply asking questions, taking a genuine warm interest in the needs of the potential buyer they can more easily bring this potential lead on side by offering them a car which suits their needs perfectly.

      Let's use an example to illustrate the point...

      Take a home removal company for example. A couple have recently sold their home and they want to move across state to their new home on a certain date.

      In advance they start looking for a home removal company. In their mind they have questions, concerns...

      Does this company have a solid reputation?

      How long have they been in business?

      Are they reliable, punctual, careful and considerate?

      Are their staff members, the actual removal men themselves, are they courteous and polite? Non smokers?

      Is the removal company vehicle fleet clean and tidy and fully mechanically maintained?

      What is their breakages record like? Are they fully insured?

      Do they have glowing reviews left by previous customers?

      Will they make our home move easy, painless and stress free?

      You get the picture.

      Now one removal company they have a website, an ad for their company services.

      This couple, together they look at it...


      ABC Removals

      Are you moving house soon?

      Guaranteed the cheapest prices in town.
      Why are our prices so low?

      Our fleet of older vehicles though not the most
      modern fleet in the state are on the whole totally reliable.

      For this reason, you need to call us today
      when you're ready to move house.

      Call this number now for a free quote:

      00000 000000


      An extreme example perhaps. And yes, a terrible ad by any stretch of the imagination!

      Case in point, would you feel attracted to or repelled by this offer to help you move home?

      Would you feel compelled to call this number without delay?

      Would you feel this particular company are the best home removal company to look after your needs on perhaps one of the most stressful days of your life?

      Probably not.

      How about if on the other hand your ad read something like this?...


      Kiss goodbye to the stresses of moving home
      with ABC Removals (est 1982).

      Accredited home removal company and winner of
      several prestigious awards for excellent service...
      ABC Removals aim to make your house move
      as pain free as possible.

      We understand the needs of our customers intimately
      which is why prior to helping you move home,
      we'll meet with you to discuss creating a perfect
      home moving plan for you on the day.

      We understand each of our customers likes to
      do things their own particular way and
      each customer has their own unique needs.

      Which is why we will plan everything in advance
      with you with incredible attention to detail to
      ensure your home move goes without a hitch
      (guaranteed or your money back).

      We thrive on complete customer satisfaction!

      Our staff are all fully qualified and trained.

      We take great pride ensuring 100% customer satisfaction.

      All home removal staff are clean shaven, polite
      and courteous and will handle everything you
      can throw at them with complete professionalism.

      All of our staff are fully law enforcement vetted
      to ensure your complete peace of mind.

      Forget spending days packing and unpacking -
      our complete service is designed to be completely
      hands off - we take all the strain
      so you don't have to:

      • Discuss exactly what you need and create a moving plan
      • Carefully pack and label your house contents the day before you move
      • Safely transport all your contents in our smart branded trucks
      • Unload all the boxes into the right rooms of your new home
      • Re-assemble your furniture
      • We even remove any unwanted packaging!

      Okay so you get the picture.

      It's all about building up in advance a rapport with your intended target market. Presenting your company products and services in a personable, professional and friendly manner.

      A conversation is easy. You simply open your mouth and start asking questions and when the other person you're addressing answers you, shut your mouth and listen carefully to what they have to say.

      Writing sales copy is not so very different.

      Likewise, writing conversational copy is easy when you know how.

      Just as you would in verbal communication, in written form, just imagine (by placing yourself directly into the shoes of the person you're trying to reach to bring on side) ask their questions for them in your sales copy.

      Next, after you've posed a question, simply answer it giving the potential buyer every reason to not only believe you but also to trust your written word.

      The marketplace dictates who will be the winners and losers, which companies or businesses will make a profit. When you directly enter the pain currently being experienced by your copywriting client or within your own business, just do your best to address their concerns conversationally to reassure them you're the ideal answer to their prayers.

      Do this with a strong call to action and you'll almost definitely see your conversion rate rise exponentially.

      Please feel welcome to discuss any of these points or do feel free to add your own thoughts down below...

      I hope this proves to be of benefit to a few of you.

      Smoking hot,


      Mark Andrews
      Hi Mark,

      If you are going to quote me, I'd prefer you to use the point I am making in its entirety .

      Apologies if I didn't make it clear enough, but I was making the point that to know your reader, you must first put in the research time.

      I've come from a research background and for people not currently doing their research properly I stand by my comment - without knowing and understanding the type of person you are selling to, it is extremely difficult to build rapport - do you not agree?

      Thanks

      Trev
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7693806].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Moriarty
    By Mark Andrews
    Why? What's hard wok, what's difficult about it?

    Look, people love to talk. By and large they love to communicate with other people. Effective communication is after all, all about asking questions. Taking an interest in the other person you're talking to. Listening to their concerns and answering their concerns with solutions which simply move them away from pain to pleasure. In a nutshell.

    What's difficult about that? We all do it quite naturally all the time every day.
    [ ... ]

    Likewise, writing conversational copy is easy when you know how.
    Yup. It really is easy when you know how. Which is really easy to say when you don't realize just how hard it is for other people to put what they say into writing. I teach this sort of stuff, and believe me, it is very hard to learn. It isn't hard to teach either - the hard part is understanding where your pupils don't get it - and that is way harder than just banging on the same door time and time again. Finding their backdoor, where they are comfortable and at ease with themselves is the key. The problem is that everybody's back door is different. And spotting that is my talent.

    That you have a talent for writing copy means only that you have a talent for writing it. Which is fair enough.

    So give your readership a break and reckon just how hard some of these things are when you face a blank piece of paper. It's a lonely place when you are out of ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author rollinrock
    @ Mark Pescetti - thank goodness you already identified yourself as someone I wouldn't want work with. make my job so much easier.

    @ Mark Andrews, That was a hell of a post. Keep up the good work. Loads of insight in there. I wonder how many people will take it to heart.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by UKCopyKing View Post


      If you are going to quote me, I'd prefer you to use the point I am making in its entirety .

      Apologies if I didn't make it clear enough, but I was making the point...
      Please read point number 7: "The Bureau of Repetitive Redundancies Department"

      Stupid Forum Tricks

      Originally Posted by rollinrock View Post


      @ Mark Pescetti - thank goodness you already identified yourself as someone I wouldn't want work with. make my job so much easier.
      Steady as you go there, Mark Pescetti (a very good friend of mine) is right at the top of the copywriting business pulling in orders from some of the biggest corporations.

      Rather than writing him off unnecessarily, you might want to reconsider your position and see what you can learn from him. Only his threads and posts are a goldmine of useful information for all up and coming new copywriters.

      As for not wanting to work with him, I don't suppose for one second he'll be particularly bothered by this, he's well and truly booked up solid for the next 6 months plus and is already a self made millionaire.

      His fees no offense but they're probably a tad out of your reach anyway.

      Originally Posted by rollinrock View Post


      @ Mark Andrews, That was a hell of a post. Keep up the good work. Loads of insight in there. I wonder how many people will take it to heart.
      As you can see from the above bar Ewen, probably not many. But thanks for the compliment, it is appreciated. Many of my threads similarly have great info which you can take to heart.

      Not that I'm the only one of course teaching the subject here. Other members you may want to pay attention to include in no particular order:

      Scott Murdaugh
      Steve Hill
      Paul Hancox

      Mike Humphreys
      Rick Duris
      Raydal

      Vin Montello
      Daniel Scott
      Arfa Saira

      Marcia Yudkin
      Andrew Cavanagh
      Gjabiz (Gordon Alexander)

      Collette
      Steve The Copywriter
      Brian McLeod

      Max5ty (Mark Kelly)
      Ewenmack
      Dorothy Dot

      Bill Jeffels
      Matt Jutras
      Malcolm Lambe

      ...to mention just a few names (sorry if I left anyone else out).

      Seriously, check out their threads and posts using the search function here on the forum. Guaranteed you'll learn a great deal.

      Actually, lets make this even easier for you...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...pywriters.html

      With my compliments.

      Smoking hot,


      Mark Andrews
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