Can you review my sales page?

by rmd3
27 replies
Hi guys,

As my first post to the warrior forum, I want (No, I actually need) some feedback on my sales page.

Here's the temporary URL. (if you order from this page, you're cool, but this page is not the official page and things are going to change)

SpringCircuits™ Electronic Kit (Your Kid's Learning Tool... Your Secret Toy)

Let me save you some typing by pointing out that part of the product descriptions isn't there - there's just filler. It's the sales copy that I need feedback on.

Thanks,
-Randy
#page #review #sales
  • Profile picture of the author rmd3
    So..... it's horrible then?
    It's written assuming that people arrive there from a search.
    Is no feedback a good, bad, or indifferent response?

    -Randy
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    • Profile picture of the author ripsnorta2
      Hi Randy,

      I had a quick look at your sales page, and noticed a few things I thought out of place. I'm not a professional copywriter, so please take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, and possibly a second opinion.

      The first thing I noticed were several spelling errors. You should probably run your copy through a spell checker.

      There were a few cases where you used the expression "learn electricity." That's sounds a little shocking! :p I probably would have used, "learn about electricity."

      I reckon there are a few places where the grammar could be improved and the writing tightened up. One of the rules of good copy is not to use more words than you need.

      You are also a bit negative with what you are writing. For example,
      Back so soon? I don't know if my simulation program was so good, but I hope you got a general feel for SpringCircuitsâ„¢ anyway. You don't have to believe this, but it is really a whole lot better in real-life.
      Don't apologise for your simulation, try saying something positive. I know you're not trying to con people into buying your product, but you are coming off like you don't believe in it. That one factor is going to lose a lot of sales.

      Honestly, I have the same problem as you. I'm a software engineer by trade and when you work on something for a while you tend to see the flaws as well as the features. It can be hard to take compliments or extoll the benefits without also feeling like you have to point out everything that is wrong.

      The thing is you see, in this case you are not an engineer. You're a salesman, and your job is to get people to buy your product. To do that you need to convince them that it is right for them.

      Tell you what. If you're interested send me a PM and I can work with you to improve the sales page. My rates are fairly reasonable, and we can discuss them.

      PS. In the meantime, try writing some articles that point back to your existing sales page. It won't hurt, and might actually get you some sales. You can then split test later when you get the new copy in to see what is more effective.
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      • Profile picture of the author gcjmarkets
        Hi Randy I took a look at your sales page you may want to take a course on copywriting because you have a good idea but your page does not flow like a sales page. You need to Grab your reader with the headline Engage them with the sub head Educate with the body and make your offer.

        You have a good product and I believe it will sell once you get your letter ironed out
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        • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
          Randy... hire someone to do a copy for you PERIOD.
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          • Profile picture of the author J. Barry Mandel
            I can see you spent so much time on this, but it just ain't right.

            Spring to hire someone to start you out fresh - no rewrite on this one.
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            • Profile picture of the author rmd3
              Excellent everyone.

              Thanks for taking the time to read and comment. ripsnorta2 and gcjmarkets your comments were the most helpful so far. Special thanks to you two.

              Here's my take on it...

              As any direct marketer knows... test test test.... right?

              Guys, I don't know if you're feedback is based on what you've learned as a copywriter, or your gut reaction to the page, or both, but I want to share something with you...

              I explicitly went through and gutted out all the traditional copywriting mumbo-jumbo...

              ...on purpose!

              I plan to test this page against a traditionally written sales copy page.

              Honestly, the two comments that say "hire a copywriter" don't offer anything of much use. "It just ain't right" is a fine comment, but Bencivenga, if he were making that statement, would have at least given some proof, and the same goes for the comment that included the "PERIOD" at the end. Like a period solves my problems?

              Why would Bencivenga have given proof? Because giving proof does two tremendous things. First, it points out explicitly what's not right (Surely the whole thing can't be incredibly horrid). Second, it gives me an opportunity to learn from my mistakes.

              Besides, giving proof is the right thing to do.

              Thanks, and do the right thing.
              -Randy
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              • Profile picture of the author fm1234
                FWIW, as a gadget junkie the sales copy faded right out of my vision within about three paragraphs and I went looking for tech info and seeing if I had $67 left in my toy budget for the month (thank goodness a new month starts tomorrow!)

                As I go back over it, the copy does have some "flow" issues as mentioned above. The basic order of an effective sales pitch is not really being followed at all. Think about your target market and how to get their attention -- top lines. Warm and cool markets who came to the page can wait until the next couple of paragraphs; the hot market (like myself) will simply scroll past anything that isn't specs or prices once they've figured out what it is and that they want it, so just make sure that at the very top of the page that those hot leads understand what it is that you're selling in as concise a manner as you can. (BTW I wanted a SpringCircuit kit the moment I understood what it was, and I have a feeling this would be true for any other adult male electronics enthusiast with a couple of young male kids to entertain/educate.)

                Lose or move to another page the "who I am and how I do business" stuff. Replace it instead with a "who I am and how am I qualified to send you and your kids something through which you plan to send an electrical charge." ie. You spent years frustrated with breadboard kits, they're so fragile and pieces go missing or get sucked into the vacuum cleaner etc. and one day BAM! it came to me and here it is so please send money.

                It's not that how you do business and building trust are not important; it's just that those details are for your warm/cool leads who might have already left the page to look for panda videos on YouTube. Your hot leads don't care anything about your business practices because they are hot for SpringCircuits -- they will care about your business practices later when they go to get the credit card out of their wallet. Right now they're hot for the product and you want to continue to stoke that fire, and how you do that -- especially in hobby markets -- is go on a little about the background of the product, with particular emphasis on the various pains in the ass it solves (I can't possibly tell you how many breadboard kits I ordered as a kid only to lose half the pieces or hear that blood-chilling clackclackclack noise when my mother ran over them with the vacuum.)

                Just some thoughts on the intro -- the whole copy is important, but the space above the fold can make or break you. If you can't get your visitors engaged enough to scroll down a bit and stay focused you're just chasing away sales.



                Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author wussadotcom
                  emm..its a bit too clean and you will need some expert writers to edit the writing.
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                  • Profile picture of the author zapseo
                    personally -- I think you have your market pegged, Randy.

                    The enmity between engineers and marketers is not small.

                    and engineers, probably more than any other group out there, will react negatively to anything even hinting at market hype.

                    How do I know?

                    How about over 20 years being an engineer in Silicon Valley, where my friends were all engineers.

                    The "imperfections" -- such as "lack of flow",blah blah blah -- can actually be subliminal "proof" elements that this wasn't written by some marketing hack whose only goal is to separate you from your money.

                    Check out some of the JS&A stuff, or Sharper Image, or Edmunds Catalog.

                    The product has the "geeky 'WOW' or 'gee whiz'" factor.

                    (incidentally, though I am not largely familiar with the group except the typical school exposure -- I suspect teachers are nearly as equally averse to "marketing hype".)

                    Frank's comments are on the money...and the various market segments are worth considering...I guess.

                    Frank's comments notwithstanding:
                    (BTW I wanted a SpringCircuit kit the moment I understood what it was, and I have a feeling this would be true for any other adult male electronics enthusiast with a couple of young male kids to entertain/educate.)
                    ahem...

                    Ahem...

                    AHEM...

                    What does MALE have to do with it?

                    Reading "between the lines" folks, Randy has clearly invested a fair amount in this project (ever price convention booths? Not to mention transportation & hotel expenses...). Of course, his reference to Bencivenga also indicates he didn't just fall off the advertising turnip truck.

                    The somewhat folksy approach reminds me of the Fortune(?) Ad where the guys are selling grapefruits...can't remember the exact headline ... but it was something like "Who'd have thought <<name>> and me would be selling our grapefruits in Fortune Magazine."

                    Killer Ad.

                    I'm quite enamored of the product, Randy. It's very clear it's already quite popular. youse gots success written all over ya.

                    Boy, now I'm gonna be called contradictory because I extolled the virtues of boldness in another thread, LOL.

                    It's about CONTEXT!

                    I'm fascinated to see the "low key" sales letters people are bringing to the table here in this forum.

                    The ONLY ONLY ONLY thing I'd say at the moment, Randy?

                    Use something to grab opt-ins and build yourself a list.

                    Live Joyfully!

                    Judy Kettenhofen, Profit Strategist/Copywriter
                    NextDay Copy
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                    • Profile picture of the author zapseo
                      oh -- couple other things...

                      VIDEO demonstration would probably work VERY WELL.

                      Also, to copywriters on the board -- notice Frank's reaction.

                      That is a reaction typical of the "geek" crowd: "I want to see the technical specifications". Not that benefits shouldn't be mentioned, but going after features is less problematic than in other markets.
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                      • Profile picture of the author rmd3
                        Judy,

                        Thanks for your input. Video is definitely on the agenda. The fact that you concur with Frank helps me prioritize some action items.

                        Frank,

                        Do you remember at what point in the letter you "got it" - that would really help me out a LOT.

                        Steve,

                        I hear you about the USP. I'm just not sure how to work it out. I had one headline that said "Build this circuit in under 17 seconds, Guaranteed." or how about "Build the circuit before the schematic is drawn"

                        I have one landing page that says "Mom, Dad, Did you play with my SpringCircuits again last night?" with a subhead "Great alternative to TV, and your secret toy".

                        I'm very paranoid of falling into hypeland. It reeks there, ya know.

                        Regardless, I was trying to make the variant USPs part of the benefits in the copy. I also try underplay the benefits and let the reader come to their own conclusion.

                        So as soon as they "get it", they want it.

                        Thanks,
                        Randy
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                        • Profile picture of the author fm1234
                          posted by zapseo:
                          What does MALE have to do with it?
                          As a male, I neither know nor understand anything about women, and certainly cannot speak for them.

                          posted by rmd3:
                          Do you remember at what point in the letter you "got it" - that would really help me out a LOT.
                          The first picture made me stop and look and think, "hey what is that -- flash cards for learning about circuits?" The paragraph below it inspired me to jump down to the price, and then work my way back up to any technical info I could find.


                          Frank
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                        • Profile picture of the author zapseo
                          Originally Posted by rmd3 View Post

                          Judy,

                          Thanks for your input. Video is definitely on the agenda. The fact that you concur with Frank helps me prioritize some action items.

                          Frank,

                          Do you remember at what point in the letter you "got it" - that would really help me out a LOT.

                          Steve,

                          I hear you about the USP. I'm just not sure how to work it out. I had one headline that said "Build this circuit in under 17 seconds, Guaranteed." or how about "Build the circuit before the schematic is drawn"

                          I have one landing page that says "Mom, Dad, Did you play with my SpringCircuits again last night?" with a subhead "Great alternative to TV, and your secret toy".

                          I'm very paranoid of falling into hypeland. It reeks there, ya know.

                          Regardless, I was trying to make the variant USPs part of the benefits in the copy. I also try underplay the benefits and let the reader come to their own conclusion.

                          So as soon as they "get it", they want it.

                          Thanks,
                          Randy
                          "Build this circuit in under 17 seconds, Guaranteed."
                          ho-hum.
                          There's a tension between speed and play that I wouldn't want to create.
                          Exploit the toyness...who wants play to speed up?

                          "Build the circuit before the schematic is drawn"
                          Okay if you were selling to industry...

                          "Mom, Dad, Did you play with my SpringCircuits again last night?"
                          This is closer...yes, emphasize play fun (ssshhhhh...education)

                          "Great alternative to TV, and your secret toy"
                          I just am not real keen on this. I like "your secret toy".
                          If you wanted that contrast, I'd prolly do something like...
                          "But That Used To Be Your Favorite TV Program!"
                          (I'm leaving out pieces here -- iow, try to tell a story, not
                          just say what it is.)

                          Frank --
                          You are a human being, and, frankly, I find your comment exclusive, as if women couldn't possibly enjoy the same thing as guys. We are not completely different creatures, y'know? You might as well limit yourself by race, class and ethnicity -- yes, I am definitely suggesting your comment is prejudiced (and offensive, if you didn't get it the first time.) In general, feminist stuff isn't something I pay attention to, but that was insulting. Don't know if you write copy...but if you do, do you only target it to men?

                          Randy --
                          Before Frank said it, I was pretty sure he was gonna say when he saw the picture. In general, engineers tend to be highly visual. It das the picture, along with the juxtaposition of the words that told me what I was seeing. Quite powerful.

                          now that I knocked out your headlines/subheads/slogans, guess I better think of something positive.

                          so...other ideas (family time, doing things together, creating things, playing, discovering, even "Wow!"). Have you done surveys? Asked what people liked most about it? Why they would want to have it? How it would fit into their lives? That should give you some real juice.

                          I'm not sure how many of these you have out on the market ... but I would talk to owners. Actual users are such great sources of super comments that you can use in your copy. I'd bet, within your customers, you've got some cool stories...where Dad says something like, "And Johnny -- that's my son -- showed me how to x.y.z, something I never understood well when I took electronics." (what are the themes here: comraderie among father & son; pride of the father in the son learning, and teaching, the fact that SC enables people to learn & discover and understand...). Stories sell well by getting their message across subliminally.

                          Cheers!

                          Judy


                          Pssst....build a list!
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                          • Profile picture of the author rmd3
                            Judy,

                            So you think I should have a list, do ya?

                            I'm planning to hit people up for some survey answers if they request a free SpringCircuits piece. And they'll have to opt-in to receive the thing as well, which should get me talking to them via email as well. I might present it as an email opt-in and say, "why not order a free sample?"

                            That way, I grow my list, they get some cool emails making us friends, I get their snail mail address, and in a few days they get the perfect sales letter catered to their needs with their free sample to examine and fall in love with.

                            Is that cool, or what?

                            That's the plan, anyway.

                            (Hey, you've read GB's bullets - It's No. 18, I think - you know, Gary Halbert said that the same sales letter offline pulls 400% better - if I'm not mistaken.)


                            Frank,
                            Thanks for telling me what you did. It not only has given me a big insight, what you did represents the same behavior I've seen in myself. duh!

                            It would seem that I have to figure out how to best leverage my page for that sort of surfing, I guess.

                            -Randy
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                            • Profile picture of the author fm1234
                              posted by zapseo:
                              You are a human being, and, frankly, I find your comment exclusive, as if women couldn't possibly enjoy the same thing as guys. We are not completely different creatures, y'know? You might as well limit yourself by race, class and ethnicity -- yes, I am definitely suggesting your comment is prejudiced (and offensive, if you didn't get it the first time.) In general, feminist stuff isn't something I pay attention to, but that was insulting. Don't know if you write copy...but if you do, do you only target it to men?
                              My comment was not meant as exclusive or prejudiced but rather a simple observation of
                              the last, oh, thirty thousand years or so of human fathering. I have no experience with, insight into, or comment regarding the experience of motherhood, because I am a man.

                              Additionally, while my comment was emphatically not intended to be so, if you are somehow trying to imagine a world where ad copy -- of all things -- is "non-exclusionist" then you must surely never turn on your television, radio or computer; never pick up a magazine and always drive down the street with your eyes clenched shut. It's hard to imagine anything more "exclusive and prejudiced" than effective ad copy. It's called "targeting." Case in point, I would wager significantly that if the product above were put in front of a major advertising company all of their mockups would depict fathers and sons playing, er, learning, with them -- because those fathers, like myself, bought tons of breadboard kits over the last generation out of magazines like Popular Mechanics and Boy's Life (ZOMG! Exclusion!) when we were kids, and would love to spend a Sunday afternoon clunking around in the laundry room with our sons putting together circuits. It has nothing to do with any nonsensical "women don't do electronics" ideas that you seem to be deriving from my comment or (presumably) advertising in general. There are obviously female electricians, computer techs, and electronics hobbyists in the world, and advertising targeted to them would actually do pretty well I imagine (except that that would be exclusive and prejudiced to leave out the men, so don't do it.)



                              Frank
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                              • Profile picture of the author zapseo
                                Originally Posted by fm1234 View Post

                                posted by zapseo:


                                My comment was not meant as exclusive or prejudiced but rather a simple observation of
                                the last, oh, thirty thousand years or so of human fathering. I have no experience with, insight into, or comment regarding the experience of motherhood, because I am a man.
                                You're THAT old ??? WOW!

                                Additionally, while my comment was emphatically not intended to be so, if you are somehow trying to imagine a world where ad copy -- of all things -- is "non-exclusionist" then you must surely never turn on your television, radio or computer; never pick up a magazine and always drive down the street with your eyes clenched shut. It's hard to imagine anything more "exclusive and prejudiced" than effective ad copy. It's called "targeting." Case in point, I would wager significantly that if the product above were put in front of a major advertising company all of their mockups would depict fathers and sons playing, er, learning, with them -- because those fathers, like myself, bought tons of breadboard kits over the last generation out of magazines like Popular Mechanics and Boy's Life (ZOMG! Exclusion!) when we were kids, and would love to spend a Sunday afternoon clunking around in the laundry room with our sons putting together circuits. It has nothing to do with any nonsensical "women don't do electronics" ideas that you seem to be deriving from my comment or (presumably) advertising in general. There are obviously female electricians, computer techs, and electronics hobbyists in the world, and advertising targeted to them would actually do pretty well I imagine (except that that would be exclusive and prejudiced to leave out the men, so don't do it.)
                                Frank[/quote]

                                Well I don't consider targeting prejudiced at all. But that's an argument for another time.

                                I've heard you, you appear to have heard me. That's sufficient for me to be happy to leave the issue and return to the topic of Randy's copy.
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                                • Profile picture of the author zapseo
                                  (Hey, you've read GB's bullets - It's No. 18, I think - you know, Gary Halbert said that the same sales letter offline pulls 400% better - if I'm not mistaken.)
                                  Trust...but verify.

                                  Oddly, it doesn't seem to be statistic or quote that's stuck in my mind.
                                  That, and my favorite quote is "There are lies, d*** lies, and statistics."
                                  Context is everything...

                                  'bout time for a review of the bullets anyway...
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                                  • Profile picture of the author milan
                                    Gee, I'm the biggest kid of all of you. I think I wanted this the moment I saw the picture of it and read the headline No way I can comment the sales letter - I don't need it

                                    Just wanted to say that:

                                    "Mom, Dad, Did you play with my SpringCircuits again last night?"

                                    appeals to me. I think that has some good potential, goes to the right direction... It's humorous, suggests fun..

                                    Knowing my friends, I can bet this would be very close to the truth! Couple of months ago a friend of mine gave me everything had about electronic (books, parts..) because his wife wants "the junk" out. He would "play" with all this if it wasn't so messy. Perhaps that's a point you could investigate further and emphasize in your copy. Because, this is not the only case I know. People I know either lose the nerves for this as they grow up, or cannot get their apartment/hands dirty. They satisfy that urge on computers. It's clear to me that your kit eliminates all those problems.

                                    As a parent I would naturally buy something I'm also interested in, find insipirational, educational. No need to persuade me.

                                    You definetely have a great market.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author rmd3
                                      Folks,

                                      I added some pics of some of my kids with SpringCircuits. Also a close-up of the circuit, one looking at the lessons and comparing a piece to what's in the lessons, and, if I haven't lost ya, scroll all the way to the bottom and you'll see my youngest boys get into the act.

                                      ( Sorry, Judy, my oldest is a girl (teenager), and she's not that interested. Of course, I mean maybe not that interested at this point in time due to circumstances outside of stereotypical gender roles and interests. )

                                      But, I agree with you 100%, Judy, back to my copy! Thanks for reigning in that slippery slope.

                                      Milan, Thanks for the input and perspective. I do mention messy circuits but I don't harp on it much because, well, I'm afraid of trying to oversell a problem too much. I want them to be enthralled with the product and let their smarts draw them in - if they want it. I don't want them to get annoyed with me harping on a problem when the problem is bad enough.

                                      Thanks again!
                                      -Randy

                                      P.S. Judy, I'm sure someone's told you before, but just in case you are still under the suggestion of Mr. Grinder. You should know that you can be nice and effective at the same time (you actually have been), and being nice can actually be effective. I mean... what stops you from being nice and effective? Or... what would happen if you were nice and effective? You NLPer, you!
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                                      • Profile picture of the author zapseo
                                        Originally Posted by rmd3 View Post


                                        P.S. Judy, I'm sure someone's told you before, but just in case you are still under the suggestion of Mr. Grinder. You should know that you can be nice and effective at the same time (you actually have been), and being nice can actually be effective. I mean... what stops you from being nice and effective? Or... what would happen if you were nice and effective? You NLPer, you!
                                        Ahhh...Randy, I AM able to contextualize. .
                                        Think of it as a pre-frame for people receiving free advice here in the forum, and also refer to the comments John_S made on getting critiques here in the copywriting forum. (which happened to be independently coincident with my sig change. Synchronicity!)
                                        Thanks for the compliment!
                                        I like to think of myself as someone who has had quite a bit of NLP training, but not really as a "NLPer". I'll take "nelpish". I think of NLP as a set of tools, not as a part of my identity.

                                        Stop distracting me so I can focus on your page!
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                                      • Profile picture of the author milan
                                        Originally Posted by rmd3 View Post

                                        Milan, Thanks for the input and perspective. I do mention messy circuits but I don't harp on it much because, well, I'm afraid of trying to oversell a problem too much. I want them to be enthralled with the product and let their smarts draw them in - if they want it. I don't want them to get annoyed with me harping on a problem when the problem is bad enough.
                                        Yes I wanted to say "keep that in mind" rather than "put much to your copy". And you're right it's better to remind them in a positive way further away (using the words opposite of messy). The moment I've seen the pictures it became obvious. So, you really don't have to oversell. Perhaps just remind people of that benefit before the closing, if it's so important as I think.
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                  • Profile picture of the author rmd3
                    Frank,
                    Thank you for the helpful advice. What you say makes good sense.

                    Wussadotcom,
                    I'm not clear on what "too clean" means? Because I removed all hype?

                    -Randy
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
                    Actually, I think it's kinda cool.

                    Just frame your offer, (think Unique Selling Point), add a decent headline, turn your bullets into benfits and you'll have the makings of a nice sales letter.

                    Copywriters (excepting you, Judy - snap posting!) - don't see this as an audition. The guy's asking for help, not a tender...

                    Steve
                    Signature

                    Not promoting right now

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  • Profile picture of the author Earl Smith
    I seemed pretty sloppy and not very appealing.

    It also assumes that a potential clients enters from a search, obviously you want to get a lot of information out so I suggest you to clean it up a bit.

    Have a Great Week
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author rmd3
      Earl,

      Can you elaborate which parts stood out as the most sloppy?

      Yes, it does assume people arrive from a search. But I left something out - the landing page (which I recently decided to use). The landing page is suppose to have my headline and subhead to make people go "oooo Ahhh". If They show interest, then I they'll hit this page. (Yes, Judy, the landing page will give the the option of opt'ing in so I can do as you say: Build a list!)

      Okay... I'm still working on getting the other suggestions in place... I'll try to make my next post with some fixes.

      Thanks everyone!
      -Randy
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      • Profile picture of the author rmd3
        Finally, I got the sales page updated and managed to rework the site (taking some sales stuff out of the sales page).

        It was a combo of feedback that led me to this result. We'll see how it goes.

        I hope I captured the...

        "what is that?!
        Oh, I get it... HOW AWESOME!!!
        What are the features?
        What's the price/how do I order?
        I gotta tell so-and-so!"

        ...options a user might have (maybe not in that order though).

        Anyway, we're off and running again!

        Thanks for the feedback everyone,
        Randy

        PS. You are always welcome to give more feedback, if you'd like.
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  • Profile picture of the author TajwarAlexander
    Ok, first of all you don't want the customer to know that you are selling something from the beginning. Youare informing them with a letter. It is a conversation. When you start it with Dear Electronic.... you are really disconnecting your potential audience. What if before the letter they were just a normal person and the letter converts them into an Electronic device getter...or whatever. I would start it with dear parent, or dear friend, something more broad.
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