My thoughts on John Carlton and his seminar

Yeah, I wish it was just fear that was the problem...Damn cashflow! Too much on this year.

Anybody else want to jump on the John Carlton bandwagon? Give it a rest will you. Or better yet get the man to take out an ad. I'm sick of hearing this being beaten up. Blatant promotion. Completely over the top. He doesn't walk on water. He's just a copywriter...with a course. So far we've had one of the moderators spruiking it...two of the speakers...now you. What's next?

I have no disillusions about Carlton walking on water, Mal. As someone whose career is just beginning, I'm interested in these types of seminars and the experiences others have had in attending them. Do I think I'll be set for life by attending one seminar? I'm a bit more realistic. But I don't find posts like this abhorrent.

I agree with Ken, for what it's worth. I've been reading this board a lot, hoping to pick up tips and tricks. There's been some really great stuff posted in here in recent times.

Sure, I'd love to go to a John Carlton seminar but I've got 101 things that need my money far more urgently. so I take the advice on here, read, spend smaller amounts on books and try to make the money so that next time, I can.

Or maybe do something different...

Maybe I can help balance this a touch.

I haven't been to any "live" Carlton gigs - so I've never done the networking thing in the USA.

But I have bought the courses and DVD's (as well as all the other guru's).

Carlton is not the copywriting messiah. I doubt there is one. A good marketeer will of course try and prove that they are.

But if you want some of the best golf or a "kill with your bare hands" self defence copy - he would be the writer to learn from.

Or Jim Curley who took over that writing.

Carltons training is good and can work a storm in many markets.

Adapt it and tone it down slightly, and his techniques are very effective with any copy.

But don't feel that his stuff is a "plug it in" in and automatically be a world famous copywriter.

And it would be good to see more Carltonites become themselves.

Rather than desperately trying to be him.

They would do so much better, armed with some great copywriting material (Carltons and others)...

And develop their own style.


Steve

@ mal

I completely agree with you that there are better copywriters out there than JC, never said he was the best... just giving my thoughts and opinions on what he did for me.

Last I checked, it was ok to give opinions on the board that might actually help people
break through their comfort zone, buy a ticket, hit the seminar, and go shake some god damn hands and get in the game.

I have no financial incentive in promoting john whatsoever... I'm not an affiliate of his, I'm far from a Carlton n*thugger.

I personally don't care who goes and who doesn't.

but my point on the thread was, going to seminars is a very good way to get business if you're just starting out. Meeting and shaking hands can pay off well.

But I totally agree... there are and will continue to be better copywriters than John, hell, you may be one yourself, I don't know you.

I learned just as much if not more from Clayton, Gary Bencivenga, Michel Fortin, etc....

But the bigger point is, and I'm not sure if you said it Mal or if I read it elsewhere, is that people need to find their own god d*mn voice when writing copy.

I mean, seriously, be your own person instead of just taking Carlton's (or anyone's ads) and just swiping them almost word for word.

I've seen letters that literally look like John wrote them, but some newbie just slapped it up there and changed a few words.

I'm all for learning from the copywriters who came before us... but jeesum, find your own voice and pave your own path instead of just regurgitating Carlton or Makepeace.

Hell, find your own unique voice and soon you could be up there with those guys.

But yeah, that's my only issue I see with those who follow Carlton a little too closely.
It's such a blatant rip off, it prevents you from actually trying to become your own writer and create your own style/voice.

This is why we can never have anything nice...

I HATE YOU ALL!!!!!

<stomps off to her room>

What I see is some great debate - instead of the usual boring crap - like "How did you start in copywriting?". Yawn.

John Carlton is a protegé of Gary Halbert. And GH loved attacking sacred cows. Wish I'd met the man. All I was saying was I'm sick of hearing about this that and the other seminar (of Carlton's).

Some of you are like Pavlov's dogs. Ring the bell and away you go.

Oh...and when the Headmaster (yes you Paul) appears we're supposed to roll over and and say "Sorry Sir...won't happen again". What a crock. Debate is what keeps this forum alive. You say it's irrelevant who has agreed with me. I say "Not at all". Unless you want a "forum" where all the lap-dogs agree with the "dominant paradigm".

As for the personal slagging - go for it. I could care less. I have no axe to grind. I don't depend on this or any other forum for my livelihood. I don't need to pay homage to "those that have gone before". What for? If some kid is killing it with his copy - great. I'm all for it. I'll be his fan.

It's pathetic how these things pan out. The thread gets heated. So what? You a big boy and girl? If you're not you shouldn't be in this game.

Why do you have to come in with your "big stick" Paul? We can sort it out ourselves. We always have. All this BS about "others have been here for 10 years before I came on the scene". Who cares? So what?

Finally...I'm not someone that posts things just for a reaction. I have some history here. And I have written a couple of pieces of copy that have rocked. And Yes I've "contributed". Look at my "Thanks" for starters.

I'm seriously thinking of doing an "Andrews". But a finite "Andrews". As in "I have better things to do and I won't be back" (collective call of "Thank Christ").

If you can't see the value in my input...bad luck. I know what I've done - and more importantly...so do my clients.

Ah to hell with it.

Mal (not sure if we're on first name terms yet, Mr. Andrews would kill me ),

There's a difference between a debate on means and techniques, and an argument on whether we should all take notice of Carlton (or anyone else for that matter) or not.

I may not be any good at copy, yet, but I'm a damn sight better than when I first stumbled into here, mistaking it for a content den like so many others, just to be shouted at. And it's all thanks to you guys.

All of you.

I've learned (except it seems, that word. I always lapse back to learnt, can't get it out of my system, color is fine, learnt...) so much, taken in so much and missed the point of so much more.

This is vibrant. It's always going to be more than the IM room or any content room that would exist. Because you guys care about your craft. There's passion in there for all those hooks, bullets, headlines and PS's. Just being part of that is great, and it'd be sad if any of you left.

Mark Andrews,

With all due respect to this forum I sometimes think you show very little respect to the forum at large because you take a lot of things personally. Also, I used to enjoy reading your posts when there was something I could learn from you, but in the past year it seems almost every time you post there is a motive behind the post to benefit you or belittle other members' threads.

Not saying that is the way it is, but to come into any thread and the first thing you do is report a member and then give him a reach around.

^_____^ Was it personal?

Jeffery 100% :-)

Interesting thread.

It looks like the washing machine is busted again, judging from all the dirty laundry on the line. Never a dull moment, though.

Coming back to the original post, thanks to Shawn and Mike H. for their comments. They've made some great observations about the importance of learning and networking.

For everyone else: Go. Don't go. Whatever works for you.

It might be seen as an opportunity, or it might be seen as a shameless attempt to separate you from your money.

The reality is, it's what you make of it.

Guess that about sums it up.

I was watching this programme the other day about Behaviour Management.

It's all about kids who have behavioural problems.

When these kids don't get enough attention they start to kick up a fuss and run riot.

Sure enough their parents come running to them, totally unaware and give them all the attention they want.

The behaviour management specialist of course can see right through the games.

Shawn, great post dude!

It's great to hear about people's personal experiences after using a product or visiting a seminar.

If you personally benefited from it then that's great. I'm sure there are others that would be interested in hearing reviews.

There's no greater compliment than an un-solicited testimonial. All credit where it's due.

Yes Halbert was a master at copywriting. He had his share of recognition.

John Carlton has also contributed a lot to the world and deserves his share of recognition.

I feel the need for more cowbell...I mean bullets.

I'd be fun to see all of you copy faukers resort to word battles with bullets and johnson boxes... Visually, that's just fun to imagine. ;-)

I have to admit this is interesting to watch you guys go back & forth a bit, a la "my dog is bigger than yours" style. aka my guru is better than yours...

Love the fight and passion, I bet a few of you that are really mixing it up here do some good work. Stoke that fire, bring on the opinions...save us newbies.

Anywhooo... I dig Frosty and his work, his style, etc... Respect.

I've seen some of his stuff and I'm certain he's helped people in this game of copy and business. But at the end of the day, to me, it doesn't matter who is teaching...it matters if the sponge (me) can absorb the information and then produce/replicate results.

Skill transfer and results...

Skill transfer and results...

IMHO, I don't care if you're a 6 month old self-proclaimed copy god...if you can knowledge and skill transfer... and your sponge-ee can produce rocking results...high five Mano!

More cowbell...now that was a classic. There's something to be said for participating with enthusiasm!

More Cowbell Snl Full Skit - Video

WOW... how did this thread go so off point so fast?

I came to the thread looking for a copy writer, a team member that can help on my projects.

Turns out I found a bunch of children. It started out as an information thread about an upcoming seminar for John Carlton. Then some fools spun it on it's head, injected Hatred for John Carlton and turned it into a... Who's The Best Copy writer.

Sounds like my kids debating over who the best singer was on American Idol.

Hell, all those kids can sing better than me. Anyone of them could teach me more than I know at the moment no matter what the judges opinions are. At the moment I couldn't carry a tune if it had handles.

If were going to go through the foolish exercise why not have a contest on who's the best judge on Idol? Or who the best American football player is at the moment. Or who the best NASCAR driver is. But instead it turned into a contest of ...who is the best Copy Writer of all time.

Who cares who the best is. I learn from everyone. I even learn from those who know less than I do about a subject. My young adult children teach me what not to do everyday

Isn't it funny how one day were the student, and as we apply our craft we slowly begin teaching the teachers and this magical transformation takes place...we become the teacher to those who know less than we do. WOW... what an original insight. Personally, I think John Carlton has earned this right and I believe I could learn from him. Personally, it is good to know he had the late great Gary Halbert as his mentor. It must be my lucky day.

I'm 56 yrs old, and I just learned a lot about copy writers on this thread. What a Damn Shame...same handful of haters as in all other professions.

Personally, I want to know about upcoming events like John Carlton's. Keep posting these threads even if some are looking for a reason to do nothing else with their time but... HATE.

Mike Humphreys... Personally, I would have appreciated the recommendation by Dan Kennedy, had I been in the crowd. My purpose for being there besides learning from the speaker is networking. Getting to rub shoulders with the players in the market. So what, you spent some money to attend and you derived a benefit. You obviously earned it.

This is my lucky day. I learned a lot just now... Whoo Hoo!

Respectfully,

Jim

It's interesting how many writers really like fishing. Maybe it's the man against nature thing (a la Hemingway), or just the chance to get out and watch the timeless rhythms of the natural world, far away from ringing phones, blaring televisions, and noisy traffic.

There's a serenity out there, along with amazing life, sudden death, and everything in between. Nature can be a cruel mistress, but a fascinating one.

Those jacks are tenacious bulldogs for sure, and amberjacks are amazingly strong too. Big toothy cubera snappers can practically pull a grown man right out of the boat - I've seen brawny men pinned in the corner, struggling to get one away from the rocks before it cut them off. A drift over a reef, a hit, and wham - slammed into the corner.

I was reading a book recently about scuba divers in the Gulf of Mexico among the blue-water Gulf Stream oil rigs. They used to get some huge groupers there, in the hundreds of pounds, along with giant log barracuda and big yellowfin tuna.

Apparently, spearfishing for those big fish was pretty risky - there was a good chance they'd end up bouncing through the barnacled rig like a human pinball as those big fish took off. Those sharp barnacles would cut a man like razors, attracting hungry sharks. Sometimes the divers would run out of air or get tangled, with predictable results.

While this posting is seemingly off-topic from the original post, I'll come full circle. While at the Carlton-Dahl action seminar (which was great, btw), I had some good discussions with the Halbert brothers about fishing, among other things. Their dad Gary was another one of those writers with a zest for living life to its fullest, whether that was charging waterspouts in the boat or some other wild adventure.

And that's just the way it should be. Life is short, and it can be an E-ticket ride or boring safe little drab existence, our choice.

I hear ya! That crystal-clear purple/blue Gulf Stream deep water is something else, isn't it? It's amazing, but yes, it's a long ride offshore sometimes.

For those not familiar with it, the Gulf Stream is like a flowing river in the ocean. It has distinct edges from the colder dirty water on either side, but inside that channel it's warmer water, exotic fish, and really clear water. Fish use it like a highway, following it as it winds and undulates on its journey. It's one of those big natural things that few take the time to understand.

West Coast fishing is a bit better in terms of distance - in Mexico and southward, you can find some excellent fishing with a little dinky panga and a few gallons of gas.

There are some islands in Mexico fished by long range boats from San Diego, and they have a lot of big resident white sharks. By big I mean 10 feet to sometimes 15 feet or so. They'll swim right under the anchored boat, eyeing you, and happily eat your 100 pound tuna off the line, leaving you with a nice fish head. Gee thanks, mister shark.

Even in Mexico we don't usually get that brilliant purple/blue water without going 60 miles out or so, though. Down by Panama, it's not bad, maybe 10 miles out and full of feisty sailfish and marlin.

Feels like time to go fishing again!

How much is the going rate for fresh Blue Marlin there in the states now anyhow? I moved to the Philippines over a year ago and I can buy Marlin for about $3.50 a pound, fresh. In fact, I never had blue marlin my whole life until I moved here (originally from Oklahoma.)

Bruce,

Did you happen to catch Shark Tank last night? (3/29)

The first idea pitched was 2 dudes trying to create an entire new fish
market in the US... by hunting and serving up lion fish... those funny-looking,
spiked, yet beautiful looking fish you see in home aquariums!

these guys are literally creating a business where they hire spear fisherman
to go out and spear lion fish in the Caribbean and they then sell it as a new
fish you can eat.

Their spin is "it's ecologically friendly since these lion fish are becoming too invasive since they have no natural predators. So they want people to buy them and eat them, after they spear them one by one!

Was curious if you saw that?

Thanks Mike and Shawn because I missed it. I was editing a video till 3am. No TV for me lately.

Shawn, sounds like an interesting idea. But those fish don't look very appetizing

As long as we're on the subject of exotic fish, this spectacular and unusual opah was caught on the Royal Star by Greg VandenOrden on a 2011 long range trip about 140 miles offshore. It was a good trip, with lots of bluefin and yellowfin tuna. I watched Greg land this fish after a heck of a fight.

The opah are very thin but broad, and dive to great depths. I would have released it myself, but they are also excellent eating.

More details here too: Rare opah catch made during tuna bite aboard Royal Star - Pete Thomas Outdoors