Any thoughts on MindValley and their sales pages?

17 replies
What are your guys' thoughts on MindValley and their sales pages? These guys have some of the nicest graphics I've seen, and all their pitch pages for their various products are super clean and appear to be professionally designed. I take it they believe that a sales page should not be the typical, ugly design that supposedly is "best" for conversions...

Anyone know what sort of business these guys are doing, and who does their copy?

Here's some links to some of their products:

Products | Modern Qigong
Courses | Gabriel Code
Silva Life System - Personal Development Program Based On Jose Silva's Research
http://www.loveorabove.com/products
#copy #graphics #mindvalley #pages #sales #thoughts
  • Some studies show that the majority of complementary and alternative medicines are women.

    I don't know if MindValley's customers are mostly female. If so, their site design would fit.

    Women experience design differently than men. They respond more holistically, preferring more open and flowing elements with lighter colors. These sites have plenty of white space, and the copy flows around the graphics down the page.
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    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
    - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author dancaron
    I've come to the conclusion that the reason people buy has very very little to do with long copy vs short copy, or slick graphics vs ugly graphics... In my opinion, only thing that really matters is if you are speaking to an urgent problem and providing an effective solution.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      Originally Posted by dancaron View Post

      I've come to the conclusion that the reason people buy has very very little to do with long copy vs short copy, or slick graphics vs ugly graphics... In my opinion, only thing that really matters is if you are speaking to an urgent problem and providing an effective solution.
      Nail, meet hammer.

      It's why the tinnitus miracle guy's been sitting on top of CB for a long time with a very average sales page.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
        The thing that throws me off, is I keep thinking of when Bencivenga in his farewell seminar showed how design was able to affect conversions (in some cases by huge percentages) with the exact same copy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
          Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post

          The thing that throws me off, is I keep thinking of when Bencivenga in his farewell seminar showed how design was able to affect conversions (in some cases by huge percentages) with the exact same copy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
          Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post

          The thing that throws me off, is I keep thinking of when Bencivenga in his farewell seminar showed how design was able to affect conversions (in some cases by huge percentages) with the exact same copy.
          His experience was mainly offline. Magalogs.

          That said, there's been a shift the last few years. As the internet has matured, people are expecting better design. The old axiom that ugly design converts better is no longer true.

          Alex
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        • Profile picture of the author SeanIM
          Would love to see some visuals/examples of what Gary found to be the most effective layouts.

          And of course interested if this translated into the interweb space.

          And of course...already coming with the understanding that all markets are different and will respond differently to colors, style, layout, etc...yes variables exist.

          Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post

          The thing that throws me off, is I keep thinking of when Bencivenga in his farewell seminar showed how design was able to affect conversions (in some cases by huge percentages) with the exact same copy.
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          Sean Mitchell -
          Online Marketing & Tech Consultant Since 1999
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          • Profile picture of the author timebinder
            Almost 3 years since this thread and the majority of successful CB products still have super-basic page designs...

            And Mind-Valley looks even better and are doing fantastic sales volume.

            Are CB Vendors just lazy? Or...what?
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            • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
              Originally Posted by timebinder View Post

              Almost 3 years since this thread and the majority of successful CB products still have super-basic page designs...

              And Mind-Valley looks even better and are doing fantastic sales volume.

              Are CB Vendors just lazy? Or...what?
              Last time I checked, the top 10 Clickbank sellers were just about all VSLs.

              Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author dancaron
    Think about the last time you bought something you didn't want to actually spend money on. Why did you do it? (example: gas in your car)
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by dancaron View Post

      I've come to the conclusion that the reason people buy has very very little to do with long copy vs short copy, or slick graphics vs ugly graphics... In my opinion, only thing that really matters is if you are speaking to an urgent problem and providing an effective solution.
      Originally Posted by dancaron View Post

      Think about the last time you bought something you didn't want to actually spend money on. Why did you do it? (example: gas in your car)
      I understand what you're saying but it just seems odd because not only are you completely wrong, but you KNOW that you're wrong too...Your sales page here is proof of that....

      The simple fact is that copy, graphics, etc do matter... a lot.

      In fact, let me ask you this: if the "only thing that really matters is if you are speaking to an urgent problem and providing an effective solution" then why did you have a $10,000 copywriting challenge on the forum for your new VSL last year and run a bunch of split tests?

      For that matter, why are you even doing a VSL at all? Why the fancy header and social proof with a Dr. Phil quote on your sales page?

      Surely if copy and graphics don't matter you could just take a blank html page, throw in a buy button and write "Paul Janka has an ebook that will make you good with women. It is for sale, here is the price." and that would be enough, right?

      Of course not... and why? Because the medium of your message matters. That's not even up for debate, considering anyone who disagrees can study a million different split tests in all mediums of advertising and see WHY these details matter and just how much they matter.... or better yet, they can run tests themselves to see how the smallest things can increase or decrease the odds people will buy your solution, no matter how good it is.

      I'm genuinely surprised a marketer as successful as yourself (or any marketer with experience really) would disagree with that.

      Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

      Nail, meet hammer.

      It's why the tinnitus miracle guy's been sitting on top of CB for a long time with a very average sales page.
      The company behind that letter swiped Tom Venuto's "Burn The Fat" sales letter to make their own. The letter they swiped was extremely successful at the time and had been split-tested to death (you can now see a version of it for all of their products on CB).

      A big reason for their success might also have something to do with the fact that they lied about affiliate's earnings for years in order to get more affiliates to promote for them. You can read more about that little debacle here:
      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-earnings.html
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
        Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

        The company behind that letter swiped Tom Venuto's "Burn The Fat" sales letter to make their own. The letter they swiped was extremely successful at the time and had been split-tested to death (you can now see a version of it for all of their products on CB).
        Smart marketing. I do the same thing. I just swiped the $hit out of a top CB product, then added my own twists to kick the crap out of them.

        Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

        A big reason for their success might also have something to do with the fact that they lied about affiliate's earnings for years in order to get more affiliates to promote for them. You can read more about that little debacle here:
        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-earnings.html
        I read your original post. I'm a bit torn on that one. On one hand, while dishonest, it worked and made them a lot of money. Getting those 10% of affiliates that drive $hitloads of traffic is tough. If you've got a good product, I think the gloves are off in the product description area. Though outright lying is not a place I want to go.

        Clickbank is a strange marketplace. There's a lottery product, lottoblackbook.com, which has been totally exposed as being fraudulent on many websites. Their story is complete bull$hit. Their "proof photos" have been proven to be frauds with actual photos from government websites, yet they're still there years later.

        I have to at least respect Ken Silver for ripping off people. He never lies in his copy. He shows his mansion, Bentley and Aston Martin and says "It was all bought by lotto." That's vaguely true.

        It was all bought selling a lottery system which doesn't work, to suckers stupid enough to buy it. But he didn't lie. He didn't say it was bought by lotto winnings.
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  • Profile picture of the author dancaron
    I never said that design does not matter. I said it's not the reason people buy.

    People do not buy because the copy is long, or full of hype. Long copy vs. short copy arguments are pointless early on in the development of a campaign. Salesletter vs VSL is also pointless when you're initially trying to figure out how to sell a product. Of course you should test these formats, but just because you have a format does not mean people will convert. The real reason people buy anything? To solve problems. Sometimes it's a problem that the customer is conscious of: "I need gas for my car." And sometimes is more of an emotional undercurrent: "I'm not as beautiful as I once was." Either way, people buy products to solve these problems. Your product or information must solve a clearly defined, wide-spread, and urgent problem. If you look at products that do not sell, it's because they do not solve an urgent enough problem. A "market" is nothing more than a collection of people with the same problem. And most large markets are comprised of entry-level people, because once you solve the problem, you're no longer in the market. What is "positioning" really? All it means is that your marketing is addressing the major problems your customer is facing. If you get that wrong, you will not sell any product. Let me say it again. The reason people buy products is to solve problems. The do not buy because the color of the order button is orange. Make sure you choose a widespread, and urgent problem, and build a product that solves it. That is the secret to selling and making your copy convert, and something Sean helped me discover. Everything else is pure noise.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by dancaron View Post

      I never said that design does not matter. I said it's not the reason people buy.
      Not *the* reason, sure, but it makes a big difference as to whether or not they WILL buy... we may just be thinking about this from different angles, especially since I completely agree with everything you said about positioning and providing an effective (and genuine) solution. Cheers for the response.

      Originally Posted by dancaron View Post

      That is the secret to selling and making your copy convert, and something Sean helped me discover. Everything else is pure noise.
      I have a different insight about that. I'll PM you in a moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    I did a gig for Ryan Deiss this week for his latest launch - "Authority Hacks". In it he talked about how they tested a well-designed blog (site) against an ugly-ass one.

    ...we even based this design on a wildly popular site (in our niche),
    that we knew was getting major traffic, in addition to accolades from the design community
    Guess which won?

    You’ve probably been told that a “clean” and “minimalistic” site design is the best way to go, right?
    ...
    We swung the pendulum all the way from clean and minimalist to cluttered (and as some have told us) downright UGLY!!
    More specifically, our new site design included a lot more content on the home page. There are multiple columns, tips, popular posts, and even banner ads.
    Crazy as it sounds, this cluttered design beat the crap out of the slicker, cleaner version...it wasn’t even close! Almost immediately, we began to see our key metrics tick upward.
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  • Profile picture of the author myattitude
    I think it's down to the market clientele. Clickbank customers being of a certain, ahem, "class", while Mindvalley customers are of a completely different breed and class.
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    • Profile picture of the author timebinder
      Originally Posted by myattitude View Post

      I think it's down to the market clientele. Clickbank customers being of a certain, ahem, "class", while Mindvalley customers are of a completely different breed and class.
      Yeh good insight. Maybe I'll do 2 versions. I can launch both on CB and see which one Vendors promote / make money from.
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