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NO REFUNDS from a talk with the "Pope"...

by gjabiz
14 replies
Noobs and masters alike might want to print this out...

http://www.infomarketingblog.com/mmfedex/

Here's how to sell a 3k product and with no refunds at that.

Master Bernstein sez, "school is in session" copywriters.

go get some lernin...

gjabiz
#pope #refunds #talk
  • Profile picture of the author Jason_V
    This product probably would have sold no matter what copy was used. The fact there is some great copy is just the cherry on the top.

    As far as writing copy for a product it just doesn't get much easier than this. You have a highly desirable product targeted to a very hungry group of buyers who have a proven track record of spending thousands on training, seminars, etc...

    Rod Napier is a genius. He is the Steve Jobs of heaters. Pretty up a space heater, write some great copy about the product, charge a ridiculous amount of money for the same product you can get for less, yet, still sell tons of units.

    Thank you so much for sharing this, I have so many ideas banging around in my head right now, I think I'm going to get a concussion.
    Signature
    "When you do something exactly wrong, you always turn up something."
    -Andy Warhol
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    • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
      Originally Posted by Jason_V View Post

      This product probably would have sold no matter what copy was used. The fact there is some great copy is just the cherry on the top.
      IMHO it's a little bit of a tougher sale than that. The video quality and hairstyles look like they are out of the 80's. He uses this as damaging admission stuff but it's still a hurdle to jump.

      He knows the market well. If he didn't need to write such a long and detailed letter to make the sale he probably would have conserved his energy as us humans are prone to do.

      --- Ross
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      • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
        The videos were never meant to be a product, they were strictly in house stuff.

        The quality is horrible, and tests did show there would be a lot of refunds, so they were used in a different way.

        I think having Dan oops, the "Pope", offer up something along with the many bonuses does help...when I say the quality, stictly talking about the video, the information, along with the homework and handouts IS rare and hard to find insider stuff.

        gjabiz

        Originally Posted by Ross Bowring View Post

        IMHO it's a little bit of a tougher sale than that. The video quality and hairstyles look like they are out of the 80's. He uses this as damaging admission stuff but it's still a hurdle to jump.

        He knows the market well. If he didn't need to write such a long and detailed letter to make the sale he probably would have conserved his energy as us humans are prone to do.

        --- Ross
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason_V
          Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

          The videos were never meant to be a product, they were strictly in house stuff.

          The quality is horrible, and tests did show there would be a lot of refunds, so they were used in a different way.

          I think having Dan oops, the "Pope", offer up something along with the many bonuses does help...when I say the quality, stictly talking about the video, the information, along with the homework and handouts IS rare and hard to find insider stuff.

          gjabiz
          The copy does allude to the fact it was going to be sold. Now, the reasoning may be what you said, that the quality wasn't there, but the copywriter said it was because it was "too advanced."

          See, when he decided to create this training, Ben Suarez was right about one thing... and surprisingly wrong about another.

          He was dead-on accurate about creating a timeless training anyone could watch 20 years later and profit mightily from. He achieved this by gathering the best experts in his company, who were arguably among the leading experts in the world.


          But Suarez was wrong about the demand for the product.


          He not only invited members of the local business community to attend what turned out to be a once in a lifetime event, but had the videos edited and produced to sell as the ultimate home study course on direct marketing [this bolding done by me for emphasis].


          Suarez believed anyone with discernment would leap at such a training, yet it was so above and beyond the average respondent's understanding, it was like selling the idea of a round planet to Neanderthal man. The promotions were shelved and the product hardly saw the light of day.
          Signature
          "When you do something exactly wrong, you always turn up something."
          -Andy Warhol
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          • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
            My comments within your post.

            Originally Posted by Jason_V View Post

            The copy does allude to the fact it was going to be sold. Now, the reasoning may be what you said, that the quality wasn't there, but the copywriter said it was because it was "too advanced."

            It is too advanced as is the book, 7 Steps to Freedom II. And like the book, it is boring when compared to other pop books on the subject. The videos were shot at Walsh College during a 2 day X 3 month seminar. It met two days, then it was a month until the next meeting and although it was mostly local, some did fly in or drive in every month too.

            There was one camera and it was never the intent to make it a product.

            See, when he decided to create this training, Ben Suarez was right about one thing… and surprisingly wrong about another.

            He was dead-on accurate about creating a timeless training anyone could watch 20 years later and profit mightily from. He achieved this by gathering the best experts in his company, who were arguably among the leading experts in the world.

            They did so with great objection and not much interest. They did it because Ben told them to.


            But Suarez was wrong about the demand for the product.

            The demand was there, the seminar was well attended. The videos were edited as much as part of a training process as anything. Full page ads were tested in USA Today and a couple of direct mail packages, and this too was mostly for training but there was hope it would take off. It didn't primarily because the quality of the videos was not good.

            He not only invited members of the local business community to attend what turned out to be a once in a lifetime event, but had the videos edited and produced to sell as the ultimate home study course on direct marketing [this bolding done by me for emphasis].

            There were a very limited number of the sets produced, again, the Remote Direct Marketing Home Study Course was tested, few were sold, and several were given away to some potential partners.


            Suarez believed anyone with discernment would leap at such a training, yet it was so above and beyond the average respondent’s understanding, it was like selling the idea of a round planet to Neanderthal man. The promotions were shelved and the product hardly saw the light of day.

            PS. Sorry about the italics, didn't mean to do it all this way.

            This I mostly agree with. But again, the training was/is not for the guy who bought the 10 book on mail order types, however, you are right it was above and beyond the average respondent's understanding, and as we see from so many Warrior's post, here and at the main forum, a majority doesn't really want to learn the business, they just want the cash without effort.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    The other thing Lawrence has is massive credibility and trust.

    (and he won a gold coin from Mr Bencivenga for getting all the headlines right during a "contest" at the 100 Seminar - now that was cool).

    He looks after his list. And doesn't hammer it to death with non stop "latest copywriting discoveries"

    And if you've ever bought any of his stuff - you know it's good.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    No idea if Lawrence sold any or sold out...not the real point.

    Think of it like this. He found a guy, the "Pope", who had several packages collecting dust. Why not try to sell them? Write the copy, send a note to a list, and see what happens.

    If he sold them all, a quick little 26k and if he and the Pope split it, maybe they both made 13 thousand bux they didn't have a week ago.

    I pointed this copy out so you could see how to do it (one way) if your product is old, in this case 15 years old and what if they didn't sell any? A waste of time?

    Maybe, but I doubt it, he may have created a demand for one of his bonuses, which, when sold, could make it a profitable offer none the less.

    If he sold one, a quick little 1400 dollar project.

    I feel the copy was good. Good enough? Well we don't know but Lawrence has grown into a go-to copywriter for pretty big names, including the Pope.

    gjabiz

    PS I'll edit the OP when the copy comes down. But it is still there today, again I say, print it out and give it some attention.

    And OH, there are scores of marketers with boxes of stuff sitting on their warehouse shelves just waiting for a copywriter to make an offer because it isn't worth their time, but might be worth yours...to the tune of several thousand dollars.
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  • Profile picture of the author SergeyZ
    Seems like a pretty crappy headline to me - especially the subheader and the headline layout. "A Million Dollar FedEx from 'the Pope'"? Why would I or anyone keep reading (unless they assumed that the headline was talking about another Pope)?

    May be "A Million Dollar FedEx from 'the Pope' of Direct Response Marketing"? This way you have curiosity going for it and you get your target audience interested right away.

    As for the subheader... how about:

    A Million Dollar FedEx from "the Pope" of Direct Response Marketing

    29 HOURS of the greatest MONEY MAKING direct response secrets ever recorded
    Waiting for YOU in this LIMITED TIME offer
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      You could be right, as far as it goes...but the fact is, it isn't for general traffic, you get there only from an email sent.

      Targets before traffic and copy.

      Lawrence knows his list.
      And with email, you write copy for your list.

      It may be a crappy headline in your opinion, but, I (being the target market) wanted to know what was up. IF it were a product being sold to the public, it probably would have less crappy headlines. Since he only had 9 to sell, and was talking to people who knew him and asked to be on his list...it may be less crappy than you may think.

      Targets before copy.

      gjabiz

      Originally Posted by SergeyZ View Post

      Seems like a pretty crappy headline to me - especially the subheader and the headline layout. "A Million Dollar FedEx from 'the Pope'"? Why would I or anyone keep reading (unless they assumed that the headline was talking about another Pope)?

      May be "A Million Dollar FedEx from 'the Pope' of Direct Response Marketing"? This way you have curiosity going for it and you get your target audience interested right away.

      As for the subheader... how about:

      A Million Dollar FedEx from "the Pope" of Direct Response Marketing

      29 HOURS of the greatest MONEY MAKING direct response secrets ever recorded
      Waiting for YOU in this LIMITED TIME offer
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      • Profile picture of the author SergeyZ
        Only 9 to sell? Seems to me like the email might have been the actual sales letter.
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          Originally Posted by SergeyZ View Post

          Only 9 to sell? Seems to me like the email might have been the actual sales letter.
          You have apparently decided you have nothing to learn from Lawrence's promotion. Fair enough. If you know of an email that sells a 3,000 dollar product, could you please share it with us? I know I'd appreciate it, thanks.

          gjabiz

          PS. Make sure it is a 15 year old product at that.
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          • Profile picture of the author SergeyZ
            Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

            You have apparently decided you have nothing to learn from Lawrence's promotion. Fair enough. If you know of an email that sells a 3,000 dollar product, could you please share it with us? I know I'd appreciate it, thanks.

            gjabiz

            PS. Make sure it is a 15 year old product at that.
            I'm saying that if it was the email that promoted this then it'd be nice to see the email as the linked-to Sales Page is both difficult to read and takes a while to get to the juicy stuff. From what you said earlier it seems that the actual email blast featured better copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    a few short years ago he was like many of you. Struggling. He may have even lived in his car for a time. He was a flat broke wannabee.

    Through study and effort he has emerged from his dire straights to become a very good copywriter that folks like the "Pope" and scores of other successful marketers and copywriters give high praise to.

    The reason I posted this promotion was because I feel you may be able to learn something from it, it wasn't posted for critique, however, some of you can't control yourselves. IF you can do better, let Lawrence know and maybe you can work out a deal if you can sell any of the leftovers. It could be an opportunity to prove your chops.

    As regarding the email and list...I subscribe to everything and usually remove myself from the list within days mainly because of the crap I'm sent.

    There are a few of hundreds of emails I get sent that I actually open and look at. I always looked forward to the late Jim Straw's newsletter.

    Sometimes, one of these "masters" sends me an email with a link, and a sizzling copy of " Take a look at this." And I hit the link.

    Sometimes there is a pre sell, often a story or some questions and answers. The higher the respect I have for the sender, the quicker I find the link he/she wants me to go to. So, as often as not, I don't bother reading the email, I want to cut to the chase.

    Realizing we all do things differently, your preference might be to receive a sizzling email with great copy which makes you hit the link and want to see the sales page. If I were a noob or inexperienced, I'd probably look for great email copy which makes me want to go see something.

    But, with a few decades of experience, I look for PEOPLE. If one of the masters or legends of marketing or copywriting sends me something, it is totally rec'd and acted upon differently than if Warrior John Doe sent me something to look at.

    Lawrence did it.
    Started with nothing. Built his knowledge banks up, studied, learned, wrote and built one of the great copy sites online. His swipe file is incredible.

    And some of you have been hanging out a year or more, some of you are total noobs, but why not use Lawrence as inspiration and motivation?

    I haven't seen anyone try to sell such a sucky product, that is 15 years old, for such a large amount of money, with NO refunds before. If he does sell any of these pieces of crap, it is because of his bonuses, and his reputation and in my opinion is worthy of study. And re: the crappy main product, to a very few who are serious about marketing, they could be worth their weight in gold, my opinion notwithstanding, of course.

    gjabiz

    PS. Never thought I'd miss Mark/Paul/Sue, but....
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  • Profile picture of the author mhdeaton
    I think its an amazing letter to pull great information from, and I for one thank you for posting it. I believe its one I will hand write for more absorption.

    Copy critics are funny, it would be funny to have each of them throw up their best work so we can compare! (??)

    What no takers? :-)
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