How Offensive is Too Offensive?

11 years ago

I think it's a matter of personal style.

I was on the webinar too, and I think that's what Ben was getting at. Not necessarily coaching everyone to BE offensive, but don't be AFRAID to offend. I am pretty offensive myself, but that's just because of who I am. I'm a redheaded rocker covered in tattoos who drops F bombs in every other sentence. I make dick jokes and I bluntly state my opinions rather than hinting at them. Many people find that offensive. I say it's just me.

I guess that's why Ben's style appeals to me. By all standards, people like me shouldn't be successful precisely because we're offensive and people love to hate us. But in figuring out who hates what I stand for, I've also figured out who effin' loves me beyond all reasonable belief.

In essence, I don't think I even know what would offend my audience because I'm not trying to push any boundaries. I'm just being me. We'll find out what happens...

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Greg guitar

11 years ago

Originally Posted by angiecolee

I think it's a matter of personal style.

I was on the webinar too, and I think that's what Ben was getting at. Not necessarily coaching everyone to BE offensive, but don't be AFRAID to offend. I am pretty offensive myself, but that's just because of who I am. I'm a redheaded rocker covered in tattoos who drops F bombs in every other sentence. I make dick jokes and I bluntly state my opinions rather than hinting at them. Many people find that offensive. I say it's just me.

I guess that's why Ben's style appeals to me. By all standards, people like me shouldn't be successful precisely because we're offensive and people love to hate us. But in figuring out who hates what I stand for, I've also figured out who effin' loves me beyond all reasonable belief.

In essence, I don't think I even know what would offend my audience because I'm not trying to push any boundaries. I'm just being me. We'll find out what happens...

Nothing you said makes me believe you're the least bit offensive in my eyes, because only a silly drama queen would be offended by rockers with tattoos or people who use lots of "F-bombs", as long as they aren't used in a mean spirited way, such as telling everyone who disagrees with you to go eff themselves.

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angiecolee

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Greg guitar

Nothing you said makes me believe you're the least bit offensive in my eyes, because only a silly drama queen would be offended by rockers with tattoos or people who use lots of "F-bombs", as long as they aren't used in a mean spirited way, such as telling everyone who disagrees with you to go eff themselves.

Haha...maybe this will help - I haven't always lived in the bay area. My fellow southern Texans have their own ideas about how women should look and behave, as well as a completely different perspective on how to be successful in business. I still believe in southern traditions like being polite and saying "ain't", but I guarantee you most people from my neck of the woods find me offensive, which is exactly why I left. My own folks told me for years I was crazy and would never be taken seriously...until I proved them wrong by simply being true to myself and sticking to the plan.

That said, I have plenty of fans in the bay area and I plan on staying for that reason LOL.

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Greg guitar

11 years ago

Originally Posted by angiecolee

Haha...maybe this will help - I haven't always lived in the bay area. My fellow southern Texans have their own ideas about how women should look and behave, as well as a completely different perspective on how to be successful in business. I still believe in southern traditions like being polite and saying "ain't", but I guarantee you most people from my neck of the woods find me offensive, which is exactly why I left. My own folks told me for years I was crazy and would never be taken seriously...until I proved them wrong by simply being true to myself and sticking to the plan.

That said, I have plenty of fans in the bay area and I plan on staying for that reason LOL.

Wow; that's like going from Kandahar to Paris! It must have been an exciting and liberating move! People who are easily offended by such things as unusual hair, body art, rockers, and women who use the "F word" just aren't any fun. Once you go coastal, there is no going back.

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deezn

11 years ago

Originally Posted by angiecolee

I think it's a matter of personal style.

I was on the webinar too, and I think that's what Ben was getting at. Not necessarily coaching everyone to BE offensive, but don't be AFRAID to offend. I am pretty offensive myself, but that's just because of who I am. I'm a redheaded rocker covered in tattoos who drops F bombs in every other sentence. I make dick jokes and I bluntly state my opinions rather than hinting at them. Many people find that offensive. I say it's just me.

I guess that's why Ben's style appeals to me. By all standards, people like me shouldn't be successful precisely because we're offensive and people love to hate us. But in figuring out who hates what I stand for, I've also figured out who effin' loves me beyond all reasonable belief.

In essence, I don't think I even know what would offend my audience because I'm not trying to push any boundaries. I'm just being me. We'll find out what happens...

For some reason, reading your self-description I thought ... Lisa Lampanelli.

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angiecolee 11 years ago

Originally Posted by deezn

For some reason, reading your self-description I thought ... Lisa Lampanelli.

Oh Lord - nowhere near that level man. Promise. The southern upbringing means a lot more politesse (in some situations) than that lady seems to have. But that's what she's known for ya know? If someone who's a fan of hers is offended by the crap she says, they're dumbasses for being fans. Her goal is to push that line. Mine? Just being me. I am quite literally in a rock band, only female in the group. Hard not to have a potty mouth in that environment, so sometimes shit just slips. I don't go for offensive on purpose - just realize that to some people I simply AM offensive. Doesn't really bother me
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Justin Nightingale

11 years ago

I have found after 8 years off and on-line, the way you market, determines the customer you will have, which in turn effects how much follow up is needed. Some customers for certain campaigns will be pre-dominantly "tech questions"this tends to be because of the "level"the list is at in their personal nature of doing business, which is in fact what turned them on about the sales copy, so they in turned bought from the copy. However, you run a newb campaign, boom only thing people need is log in and password resets lol! So they way you market determines what kind of after effects will surface...

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wordwizard 11 years ago

Hmmm, call me a chicken, but I'd be worried about my autoresponder service blowing up on me if I get too many complaints.

Did anyone say anything about that in the webinar (which I missed)?
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tinyreal

11 years ago

The whole Dan Kennedy concept of building a loyal tribe is to offend those that will never buy anyway and bring those that resonate with you closer to you so that they hang on your every word.

It worked with me, I can't wait to read his newsletter and books every month.
In my copy, I am too pleasing, but I'm working to get rid of that. I hate being controversial and worry about offending people.

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marciayudkin

11 years ago

only a silly drama queen would be offended by ... people who use lots of "F-bombs",

Well, that's a matter of opinion. I recently surveyed a group of women business owners on this and more than half said they would unsubscribe from someone who swore a lot in emails or they had already done so (unsubscribed).

It's all a matter of knowing your audience. If you wanted to sell to the population I surveyed, you would want to respect their sensibilities. If you believe F-bombs are all in a day's work, then you're undoubtedly selling to a different demographic.

Marcia Yudkin

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Greg guitar

11 years ago

Originally Posted by marciayudkin

Well, that's a matter of opinion. I recently surveyed a group of women business owners on this and more than half said they would unsubscribe from someone who swore a lot in emails or they had already done so (unsubscribed).

It's all a matter of knowing your audience. If you wanted to sell to the population I surveyed, you would want to respect their sensibilities. If you believe F-bombs are all in a day's work, then you're undoubtedly selling to a different demographic.

Marcia Yudkin

I agree with this; I was stating my opinion. I agree that you have to write for your audience, and I am not advocating more people use the eff word; I think they should use words that best express what they want to say. I just happen to think it is silly to get offended by certain language if there is no meanness behind it, and the message is otherwise of value.

Plenty of people feel the opposite, and if my opinion offends some of them, so be it. I don't take any responsibility for how they react; another opinion of mine is that taking offense at vocabulary choices that aren't aimed at insulting anyone is a personal choice, a silly one, and since it's voluntary, the blame if there is any, belongs on the shoulders of the person choosing to get offended at the drop of a hat, or an "f-bomb". I try to be kind, but not please everyone, since people have a lot of silly rules imo.

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travlinguy

11 years ago

I use a wide range of colorful language in my personal life but I don't want to see that stuff from marketers. I figure there are three types of impressions we can with words make as marketers.

Positive
Neutral
Negative

I strive to fall within the first two when presenting anything. There are audiences that readily accept lots of cursing and foul language but they aren't mine. But even with that market there is NO ONE who will click away if you DON'T use offensive language. There is, however, the possibility that you will offend people in any market if you DO use it so why go there?

It's about selling. Alienating people for the sake of being cute or trendy is stupid if you lose even one sale or have one unsubscribe as a result of offensive communication.

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Steve The Copywriter

11 years ago

Over all the years I've heard the "if you don't offend some people you're not going to sell much" so many times (yawn).

What a load of bollocks.

All you're ever trying to do is make the right people (your target audience) agree with you.

Always being deliberately obnoxious and offensive doesn't really hack it (because it won't take long before they get tired and bored of seeing or hearing it)

They just think "For f*** sake, here we go, yet another rant...lets ignore it and move on"

Steve

P.S. Having said all that.

One way to be "offensive" is do it at the things you know piss your target audience off (it doesn't have to be full on - make sure you "match" the phrasing to the way your people like to read).

Get it right and it's usually more difficult to get it wrong...

And they'll always agree with you.

P.P.S. The exception to all this is angie, you rather hope that a red haired, inked, hard core rocker will be a touch "offensive" and eff and blind a bit.

But she's way too clever to do this in all her copy gigs.

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angiecolee

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter

Over all the years I've heard the "if you don't offend some people you're not going to sell much" so many times (yawn).

What a load of bollocks.

All you're ever trying to do is make the right people (your target audience) agree with you.

Always being deliberately obnoxious and offensive doesn't really hack it (because it won't take long before they get tired and bored of seeing or hearing it)

They just think "For f*** sake, here we go, yet another rant...lets ignore it and move on"

Steve

P.S. Having said all that.

One way to be "offensive" is do it at the things you know piss your target audience off (it doesn't have to be full on - make sure you "match" the phrasing to the way your people like to read).

Get it right and it's usually more difficult to get it wrong...

And they'll always agree with you.

P.P.S. The exception to all this is angie, you rather hope that a red haired, inked, hard core rocker will be a touch "offensive" and eff and blind a bit.

But she's way too clever to do this in all her copy gigs.

You're absolutely right Steve. I'm not trying to be deliberately offensive when I speak to people - they often just get the raw me, which includes the occasional F-bomb. I'm not in it for the shock value. I'm not trying to provoke a reaction with it - just being me. And I've got clients who have been with me since I first set out my shingle as a result. Hell, some of them even come to see the band play!

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Don Schenk

11 years ago

One way to be "offensive" is do it at the things you know piss your target audience off (it doesn't have to be full on - make sure you "match" the phrasing to the way your people like to read).

Perfect.

Blair Warren in his "Forbidden Secrets" course, and in his "One Sentence Persuasion" talks about "...help them throw rocks at their enemy."

Criticize the same things your reader criticizes.

:-Don

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Don Grace

11 years ago

Bottom line for me is be real and be yourself. I do a lot of live action video, and if you go that route you cannot be deliberately offensive if you don't have a potty mouth or vise versa. People will smell the bullshit coming a mile away.

So I'm straight up from day one in my AR series that leads to videos from day one. And I tell people the truth about me, what they should expect, and if they don't like it then you know where the door is.

Because of this I get tons of unsolicited emails saying how refreshing it is to come across someone real. And of course I get few few a-holes who need a diaper change as well.

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angiecolee

11 years ago

And just for shits and giggles, just in case anyone shares my mindset:

Poster - Why I Swear So Much | Erika Napoletano -- I get people UNstuck.

(No affiliation - I get nada if you want one of these bad boys.)

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copyassassin 11 years ago

here's a very effective, simple, and quick series of litmus tests:

Will your ideal client be SO pissed off they chose NOT to do business with you anymore?

secondary question:

Will your ideal client be SO pissed off they reduce their spending you with?

And lastly:

Will your ideal client be SO pissed off they stop referring you business?

A "yes" to any of the above is too far in my opinion.

Adam

p.s. I'm always pissing off clients in my tax practice. My peers think I'm crazy. I've even had good client tell me I've "gone to far".

For Valentines I sent out a hard CD entitled: "What Do To When You're Thinking About Business While Having Sex With Your Spouse".

That pissed off a lot of people. Lost a couple of high paying clients too.

But, it's ALL about the 1%, and growing your practice with the 1%. I know it's hard, but put on your blinders and focus only on the finish line.

http://adamlibman.com/valentines.day.2013.mp3

p.p.s. Who do you think that CD would appeal too?
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- LastingLifeSuccess 11 years ago
  
  Hey Jason,
  the old fashioned guy inside me doesn't find being offensive in my copy appealing at all. I prefer using copy as a tool to attract as many prospects for conversion as possible. Personally I don't have very good rates of conversion when I am offensive; (perhaps because of my style) even when using the offense in a specifically targeted way. I would rather catch my flies with honey. Best of luck sorting this all out.
  
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Greg guitar

11 years ago

Originally Posted by angiecolee

And just for shits and giggles, just in case anyone shares my mindset:

Poster - Why I Swear So Much | Erika Napoletano -- I get people UNstuck.

(No affiliation - I get nada if you want one of these bad boys.)

Nice site; I like her already.

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Raydal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason_V

Is there a line in copywriting that you won't cross when it comes to being offensive?

Can you really be too offensive?

Most posters here seem to assume that "offensive" means
to be rude or unsocial. Well, at least that is the meaning I get
from the OP's use of the word. But you can also offend by
being "nice".

Conservatives views are "offensive" to liberals. The point
is, whatever side of the fence you are there are people
who will find you offensive.

The Good Book says, "Woe to you when everyone speaks
well of you."

Somebody may find that quote offensive, but I think its
"nice".

-Ray Edwards

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Richard Phillip

11 years ago

I'd say it depends on the audience you are going for. IMO You could exclude/offend 99.99% of the population of the world and still make a killing with a rabid, loyal 1%. Witness Howard Stern or Jackass.

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." - Henry Mencken.

R.

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mert

11 years ago

It's sometimes part of your brand or style of writing. There are certain groups of people, for example in the insurance niche, where offensive content is really an ISSUE. Although I like it wacky, I tend to push it to the minimum depending on the niche.

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How Offensive is Too Offensive?

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