Do you do what Ben Settle says?

In my experience once a day is the minimum.

When I create a new promotion, I send out two emails each day.

Remember: a prospect who wants to read your stuff loves getting your emails. Those who don't, won't buy anyway, so who cares if they unsubscribe?

Alex

Yes, he has earned my business. Just bought a Kennedy product to help me tighten up some sales processes and then I'll be getting Settle's course.

I wasn't asking about what Ben Settle does, though. I was asking if any of you had the same philosophy and practice and how it worked out for you.

I'm aware that the standard answer here is 'check google/buy the product/hit the search tab' but I was looking to open a dialog of daily mailing vs. less regular mailing.

Positioning can trump proof.

Years ago, when I was a new business broker and had no results to claim, I found that approximately half of the sellers who contacted me to list their businesses didn't ask anything about my experience.

Proof has to do with believability. As desirable as it is to have, fact is, there are numerous other ways to create believability when you don't have proof.

Alex

Not really. Powerful positioning can do away with the need for proof. I'm proof of that. LOL. (just joking)

People believe what they want to believe. Sad, but true. Which is why MLMs like Empower Network do so well - they're all drinking the Kool-Aid.

BTW...you keep bringing up Kern. He's a master at branding and positioning. His old persona...his old schtick...seemed to be based on "The Dude" character from "The Big Lebowski" - Californian stoner surfer dude. The "Underachiever" - all that. Worked very well for him. God knows why he's gone the other way. He looks like a spivvy used-car salesman now (sorry Frank). The trendy hair-cut, the suit, the model accessory wife (he's gonna kill me for that crack).

But really...you guys are hitting each other with infractions over nothing. Positioning and proof each play their part. Now shake hands and have a beer.

This was really helpful. I've been thinking for some time now that part of the reason I'm not making as many sales as I could be is that I'm not including enough of me into the sales process.

I'm still not sure how to write about myself so much, but your comment was helpful in making me understand that I need to go that route.

Thanks,

This is great advice. I too struggle with doing daily email. I usually only email my list 2 or 3 times a week with not much about me personally. I did once try daily emails for 30 days and it had incredible results. But I wasn't sure how to keep it up.

Now I'll look at it again. Thanks.

one obvious way around solid proof is simply by association.

get Frank kern or Eban Pagan to jump in a video with you and you have instant credibility.

This type of positioning beats a screen shot or video proof any day of the week.

And Ironically enough, i doubt people look for John's latest results when hiring him.

his positioning in the market does the talking for him.

Let me make it simple...

A significant percentage of people don't need proof to believe.

They will believe if you use other persuasion techniques.

Got it?

Alex

Agreed. Proof is king. Learned that from Bencivenga. Proof is so powerful because it's so rare. Most marketers don't have a lot of proof because...that would require actually being able to deliver on their bullshit claims. Hence, it's a rare and mysterious animal in the marketing world.

And in a sense, when you do have very strong proof, you really don't need much of the other elements of pursuasion because proof itself is a pursuasion element. Having said that, the other "proof elements" only become stronger when accompanied by very strong proof, which is why you won't see too many "proof only" type sales pages.

Although a close example would be Pat over at smartpassiveincome.com. The guy makes a small fortune and really only uses proof (in the form of income reports.) He does use social proof though, but he's a great example of a guy who hates "selling," hates most sales pages and typical "pursuasion type" stuff because he thinks most of it is cheesy. He prefers proof and building real relationships.

Well, maybe, maybe not.

It depends.

-v

Take the best bits from both

Which is actually pretty much the same thing.. write quality entertaining emails.

I'm sorry, but this whole "proof vs persuasion" argument that's going on is beyond retarded.

You can have total persuasion without proof and it sometimes works. You can have total proof without persuasion and it sometimes works. Persuasion without proof can be perceived as slimeball and hype. On the flip side, "proof" on the intrawebz can be (and is) faked all day long.

The smart marketer uses proof and persuasion intertwined to bolster the other.

Use proof as part of your persuasion and persuasion in order to obtain your proof.

It's not really THAT hard to figure out.

(Yes, I know nobody knows who I am, I'm a "nobody" to everyone here and all that. I don't care. Use a little bit of common sense...jeez.)

The two do overlap a bit, but I'm assuming you're talking about daily emails with a pitch which are wholly self-contained (even if they occasionally mention something coming up in a future email) vs a sequence of emails, containing different loops, and only certain instances pitch (Andre's SOS).

My experience:

I tried SOS with cold (i.e. - new to my list) traffic and it didn't do very well. Unless you're ONE HELL of a copywriter, it's tough to build that sort of tension, drama, or have the ability to end on such a strong cliffhanger that somebody HAS to come back the next day when they don't know you.

At the same time, if someone *does* miss an email (for whatever reason), the whole sequence is screwed.

Andre likes to mention a TV show like Lost or 24, where it captivates you and makes you want to tune in week to week.

There most definitely is something to this. However, if you watch the first episode, then miss the 2nd or possibly even 3rd, by the time you come back to the 4th, it's gonna be tough to get back on the bandwagon, know what's going on, and get roped in again.

Also (and just take this FWIW), take a look at shows that are heavily dependent on long-running storylines like this. Many are laden with name actors (e.g. - Keifer Sutherland in 24), so there is already an element of investment from many viewers, as they're fans. The viewers are also already partial to actors in the show, so they're likely be more easily drawn in.

Lost had a few people that were somewhat known, but an uber-successful show with that sort of long-running storyline that doesn't have big-name actors in it already doesn't come along too often.

IMO, email is the same way.

Your favorite niche guru could start out an SOS sequence with cold traffic, and it's going to work better because their new list members already have a certain amount of investment into their credibility and such.

If you're getting someone new into your funnel and they don't know who you are, then that kinda thing is much tougher to pull off that fast and early, IMO.

Whereas, if you treat each email as its own self-contained story (which is what I do), you don't have to worry about the sequence getting jacked up. If somebody reads the first one, misses the 2nd/3rd one, then hits you back up on number 3/4, they can basically pick right back up where they left off.

At least that's my experience. Each of my emails are self-contained, story-based, start with a time/place element ("I remember back in high school"...learned that from Furey), and use the story to pitch a benefit. Pull/base your email titles from headlines off covers of magazines in your niche, and you're golden.

Not too tough once you have some practice.

Now if you're segmenting a list, getting referral traffic, going through a launch, or building a back-end autoresponder, you can use an SOS much more effectively.

Prove it.

Show me a high converting page featuring proof of claim, but no other persuasion elements.

Here's what I get Dave... every time YOU write copy, YOU include persuasion techniques.

An attention-grabbing headline - a persuasion technique.
Establish value - a persuasion technique.
Call to action - a persuasion technique.

So get off you high horse.

Alex

I don't think anyone is disputing the power of proof. It's this that people disagree with:

Frank Kern had a very involved launch, leveraging all kinds of tactics - likability being at the top of the list. You can't underestimate that. Yes, proof played a big role but it was far from "here's the proof, take it or leave it."

You also have to keep in mind that you're talking about some of the most discerning buyers on the planet when it comes to the high end bizopp niche.

And still, even in that niche, most people make decisions emotionally and justify logically. That's the way it always will be regardless of how many people say, "Don't BS me just give me the facts."

Just resorting to proof isn't going to get the job done. Not if you have something you believe in and want to maximize the conversion rate.

Yes, there are a lot of people who make decisions very objectively. They're harder to engage emotionally. They're far less likely to watch a full VSL from the standpoint of a prospect. They price shop. They compare. I bet you'll find a lot of those people here. But in the real world, I think it's safe to say most people aren't like that.

For your own product, you don't just have a 1 page sales letter with proof, do you? You have a full vsl. Why? I think that's the main point people are trying to make.

There are an overwhelming amount of very successful marketers who got there with little, if any, proof. And there are those with proof out the ying yang who are starving.

And how is persuasion "garbage"? Isn't what you teach in your own product a form of persuasion?

It's like two car salesman, selling the exact same product. One wears cheap cologne and is pushy. The other knows how to ask questions, smile, and shut up. That's persuasion. Just one example out of millions... I'm not sure why anyone selling anything would want to disregard "persuasion".

Frankly, it's shocking to me that this conversation is even taking place here.

:rolleyes: Come on Dave, are you really trying to pull the ol' "I actually don't have an example to back up my claims so I'm just gonna make some excuse about how these guys' minds are made up so I don't have to post anything" excuse?

It's not your first day on the internet, don't be that guy who can't either back up his claims or admit he's wrong.

Just cite a single example of a highly-converting sales page that features proof, but no persuasive techniques, like you said.

My mind is open. Show me the light.

Seriously, you are going to use PPV as examples as "proof" that have NO persuasion techniques?

I think I just laughed a little bit inside.

Ok...maybe much more than a little bit.

Pot, meet kettle.

LOL that's about modeling something that's working, it has nothing to do with this conversation. Unless you want to talk about specific product launch products, in which ALL of them use persuasion in their copy. Yes, all of them.
You're making our point for us. Kern uses a lot of persuasion techniques and the courses are even largely about that. Proof is just one element he uses. Keep proving yourself wrong Dave, you're on a roll.
Yup, and he also used persuasion. Once more, you're making our point.

I can't tell if you're trolling or just not smart enough to understand the very simple point we're making: Proof is just one technique that is used in sales, but it doesn't negate the need for other persuasive techniques.

Again, you said:
Now prove it, like you've been asked to several times already. Post a sales page, or hell, a launch sequence from anyone (maybe Kern or one of the guys you brought up above) that ONLY uses proof and no persuasion. No attention-grabbing headline, no intrigue-sparking bullet points, no calls-to-action, no scarcity or urgency, etc, etc.

Or are you going to continue to get upset and name-call when you're ridiculous "persuasion doesn't matter in copywriting" point gets called out and laughed at? My guess would be the latter.

Here comes the ego game, I can FEEL it ;-)

The more you type, the more I just have to shake my head.

Foot in my mouth because I wanted to know about his optin page? I'm on his list because of PROOF only?

Now THAT is funny!

You continue to dig yourself into a hole "bro". And I could care less who you've worked with. Get over yourself.

Done yet, because I don't know how much more of this laughing I can take ;-)

:rolleyes: LOL Dave, you still don't get it. People are indeed laughing, just not with you.

Again, this is the post we're referencing and you're refusing to address:
You call Persuasion "garbage" and say it's not needed if you have "proof", yet you refuse to post evidence to support that ridiculous assertion. So far, several people asked you (multiple times) to highlight ANY sales page, launch sequence, or really any sales message where only proof is used, and persuasive techniques aren't. You haven't done so, and it's clearly because you can't find anything to post, so you just keep digging in deeper.

And really, that's about what we all expected. It's also very ironic that you're in a thread about Ben Settle and spouting off nonsense when you're exactly the type of poster he warns about here: Warrior Forum 90210

Again, proof is a powerful factor in sales, but it does not negate the need for persuasive techniques. Period.

I couldn't agree more, Brian.

Ron Popeil proved this point with his Ronco food dehydrators,
rotisserie ovens, and his hundred other inventions.

Demonstrations made him wealthy beyond means.

Demos work well because it shows you exactly how the
benefits are received.

Watch TV on any given Saturday morning and you'll see how
powerful demonstrations are when it comes to proof... there's
probably 3 to 4 million dollars worth of infomercials running at that
time... all using demonstrations as their proof elements.

Correct... I don't think anyone is implying it's not... you're 100% right!

And Sean mentioned Bencivenga... who in his retirement seminar
gave a list of the best ways to create/offer proof.

Out of the 7 or so elements that Gary mentions... I've found
the demonstration one to work the best for me, in my
sales letters.

I'll usually do it by trying to create a video that
offers a demonstration of the product at work.

but another one that Gary mentions, that works
well for me is explaining HOW the product delivers
the benefits.

In other words, show the prospect exactly
how the product works... and why it offers
up the benefits you claim.

When you explain how you're able to do something,
the prospect can better understand how you're able to
deliver the benefits.

Goes for me as well.

Proof creates belief.

As do numerous other techniques.

And prospects buy because they believe your solution will give them the results they seek.

Alex

Bravo.

*insert slow clap gif here*