What Am I Doing Wrong? Do New Clickbank Products Usually Take Several Years To Pick Up?

45 replies
Hello. I am an affiliate manager of a clickbank product that we have spent thousands of dollars creating. I have noticed that we seem to attract mostly beginner affiliates or affiliates that do not drive a whole lot of traffic to our site. They make a couple sales here and there but we have not attracted any of the super or heavy traffic affiliates and I wonder if it is because of our niche which is addiction may not be a good choice. But to me, the product seems solid and in huge demand (I believe).

The sales page has a $15,000 dollar whiteboard sales video. The refunds are low and the refunds we have got we later found out were from affiliates that purchased the product and then moments later asked for a refund (to obtain a review copy, i believe).

Also, the stats are kind of random and strange, but I was told that the buying behavior of people is random and strange. For example, an affiliate that only sent two hops to our page, one bought. While one affiliate that sent over 100 hops only had one purchase.

Again, it depends on the traffic I'm sure. Most of these affiliate sales appear to be from review sites, and generate little traffic for us (about 5 -30) hits a week.

Anyway, could you knowledgeable and experienced warriors provide input as to a possible reason why the big affiliates have not promoted our product? I can handle hard critisizm if you dish it out

There was another thread here about attracting super affiliates, and I feel we have met the criteria:

I believe we have a good sales copy
Refunds low (above average status)
$15,000 whiteboard animation video seems highly persuasive
No opt-in from direct hoplink
EPC seems good but alters depending on source of traffic.
Very low competition on clickbank
This is probably the only product (i think) that is backed up by solid research and includes hundreds of references throughout the ebook and other materials.

I am only guessing, but are most super (or larger) affiliates limited in what they promote? The super affiliates I have heard about seem to spend the majority of their effort on products in the IM/Weightloss/dating niche. I hope im wrong but maybe they do not have promotional resources in the addiction niche (like a large addiction email list)?

Recently, I placed an ad on one of the top addiction forums and saw a dramatic increase in sales and gave me a three-fold ROI. I am considering buying a larger media ad on some addiction sites which might be a good option. But this is all new to me. I have been an affiliate for a few years, mostly dabbling in video marketing and articles.

I would love to hear some constructive critisizm and I am even willing to hear some harsh critisizm.

If you wanted to see the product to give input it is TruthOfAddiction | Overcome Addiction by A. Scott Roberts

I think your input would be invaluable and perhaps can also help other warriors that are getting ready to launch a clickbank product.

Also, the thing we are lacking are some testimonials. We have received about 4 testimonials (positive reviews) on the product already but they did not wish to have it published on the site. Probably because of the embarrassing nature (pornography addiction and drug addiction-don't want to be publicly known).

But we still get sales so it seems that testimonials aren't quit as important right now.

Thank You for any responses and input I receive! Much appreciated.
#clickbank #pick #products #wrong #years
  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    I would not promote your product for one simple reason. You do not have a buy button on the sales page, you have a email sign up form. As an affiliate, how would i get commission. Also, if you click the video button you get a page that just has the video and no buy button. You need to have a sales page that an affiliate would feel confident that they would get paid. As it is, you will do great and the affiliate would not. This might not be the case, but it sure looks that way

    al
    Signature

    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

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    • Profile picture of the author theresearcher1
      Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

      I would not promote your product for one simple reason. You do not have a buy button on the sales page, you have a email sign up form. As an affiliate, how would i get commission. Also, if you click the video button you get a page that just has the video and no buy button. You need to have a sales page that an affiliate would feel confident that they would get paid. As it is, you will do great and the affiliate would not. This might not be the case, but it sure looks that way

      al
      Thank You for your input! The clickbank hoplink actually goes to the sales video page here Truth Of Addiction FREE Video Presentation | Truth Of Addiction |, not the opt-in page. The video buy button is delayed and appears after that sales pitch is over. I heard this way converts better but was skeptical about it too. Maybe not make a delayed buy button?

      Thank you!
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      • Profile picture of the author agmccall
        Originally Posted by theresearcher1 View Post

        Thank You for your input! The clickbank hoplink actually goes to the sales video page here Truth Of Addiction FREE Video Presentation | Truth Of Addiction |, not the opt-in page. The video buy button is delayed and appears after that sales pitch is over. I heard this way converts better but was skeptical about it too. Maybe not make a delayed buy button?

        Thank you!
        I am not sure if it converts better or not, all I know is I do not like to be forced to watch a video. I like the combination pages (personal opinion) where I can either play video or read the copy. Also on the exit page there is a popup for gathering email addresses, this will put off most experienced affiliates. You should probably have 2 sales pages, one for affiliates and one for yourself and your own promotions.

        Anything that is considered a traffic "Leak" such as email submit forms or links to a blog then affiliate marketers will take a pass, and it does not matter how good the product is

        al
        Signature

        "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

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        • Profile picture of the author theresearcher1
          Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

          I am not sure if it converts better or not, all I know is I do not like to be forced to watch a video. I like the combination pages (personal opinion) where I can either play video or read the copy. Also on the exit page there is a popup for gathering email addresses, this will put off most experienced affiliates. You should probably have 2 sales pages, one for affiliates and one for yourself and your own promotions.

          Anything that is considered a traffic "Leak" such as email submit forms or links to a blog then affiliate marketers will take a pass, and it does not matter how good the product is

          al
          Gotcha. Honestly, I dont like to be forced to watch a video either and popups seem to turn me off as well. I just saw this type of thing on some of the most (arguably) popular clickbank products and figured if they are doing it there must be a reason. But I did not consider the leak traffic, that should be an easy fix and I think creating a different sales page for affiliates and for my own promotions would be valuable.
          Thanks again
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        • Profile picture of the author TheSEOLion
          Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

          I am not sure if it converts better or not, all I know is I do not like to be forced to watch a video. I like the combination pages (personal opinion) where I can either play video or read the copy. Also on the exit page there is a popup for gathering email addresses, this will put off most experienced affiliates. You should probably have 2 sales pages, one for affiliates and one for yourself and your own promotions.

          Anything that is considered a traffic "Leak" such as email submit forms or links to a blog then affiliate marketers will take a pass, and it does not matter how good the product is

          al
          Solid advice.
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          • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
            I have a few questions OP:

            *Did you TEST the copy with either a text sales letter or a powerpoint VSL before getting the whiteboard video done?

            *Also, you said you "think" there's a market for this type of product... but why don't you KNOW already? What kind of research did you do into the niche in terms of what they buy?

            *Do you have analytics on the site and if so, do you know how long (on average) people stay on your page?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    A couple of thoughts:

    Most addicts don't primarily want to get rid of their addiction. They aren't interested, I don't think, in the latest research breakthroughs for example.

    I think most people addicted to anything, whether it be porn or too much TV or eating or drugs, do it and have done it for the time they are addicted because there is some pleasure there.

    I think very few people wake up one day and say (outside other influences) "okay this is the last day I'm going to __".

    So maybe the approach needs to be in addressing those other influences. WHY do people want to quit ___?

    It's because their wife is going to leave them, they are broke, they are torn up inside because they feel what they are doing is wrong, they lost their third job, the doctor's test results came back, the blood is coming up again, their little girl just asked them some gut wrenching question, they violated their probation and are headed to jail, the neighbors from church found out about the addiction, etc.

    It's many times only when faced with those kinds of issues (normally multiple times) that people start trying to get unhooked. They KNOW they HAVE to change because their marriage is more important, the job is more important, their freedom is more important, etc.

    Once they have backed themselves into a corner, then and only then they may be open to your ebook.

    Another approach is to focus on the "victims" of the addict (wife, little girl, boss, neighbor) and how they can help the addict quit.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author theresearcher1
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      A couple of thoughts:

      Most addicts don't primarily want to get rid of their addiction. They aren't interested, I don't think, in the latest research breakthroughs for example.

      I think most people addicted to anything, whether it be porn or too much TV or eating or drugs, do it and have done it for the time they are addicted because there is some pleasure there.

      I think very few people wake up one day and say (outside other influences) "okay this is the last day I'm going to __".

      So maybe the approach needs to be in addressing those other influences. WHY do people want to quit ___?

      It's because their wife is going to leave them, they are broke, they are torn up inside because they feel what they are doing is wrong, they lost their third job, the doctor's test results came back, the blood is coming up again, their little girl just asked them some gut wrenching question, they violated their probation and are headed to jail, the neighbors from church found out about the addiction, etc.

      It's many times only when faced with those kinds of issues (normally multiple times) that people start trying to get unhooked. They KNOW they HAVE to change because their marriage is more important, the job is more important, their freedom is more important, etc.

      Once they have backed themselves into a corner, then and only then they may be open to your ebook.

      Another approach is to focus on the "victims" of the addict (wife, little girl, boss, neighbor) and how they can help the addict quit.

      Mark
      Hey Mark, you brought up a really good point. I think the majority of addicts do not seek treatment, but I think that there might still be a market for those that know they have to change because it is destroying their life. But perhaps more potential would be to focus on loved ones and those victims affected by it.
      Thank You!
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  • Profile picture of the author dewayneboyd
    Originally Posted by theresearcher1 View Post

    Hello. I am an affiliate manager of a clickbank product that we have spent thousands of dollars creating. I have noticed that we seem to attract mostly beginner affiliates or affiliates that do not drive a whole lot of traffic to our site. They make a couple sales here and there but we have not attracted any of the super or heavy traffic affiliates and I wonder if it is because of our niche which is addiction may not be a good choice. But to me, the product seems solid and in huge demand (I believe).

    The sales page has a $15,000 dollar whiteboard sales video. The refunds are low and the refunds we have got we later found out were from affiliates that purchased the product and then moments later asked for a refund (to obtain a review copy, i believe).

    Also, the stats are kind of random and strange, but I was told that the buying behavior of people is random and strange. For example, an affiliate that only sent two hops to our page, one bought. While one affiliate that sent over 100 hops only had one purchase.

    Again, it depends on the traffic I'm sure. Most of these affiliate sales appear to be from review sites, and generate little traffic for us (about 5 -30) hits a week.

    Anyway, could you knowledgeable and experienced warriors provide input as to a possible reason why the big affiliates have not promoted our product? I can handle hard critisizm if you dish it out

    There was another thread here about attracting super affiliates, and I feel we have met the criteria:

    I believe we have a good sales copy
    Refunds low (above average status)
    $15,000 whiteboard animation video seems highly persuasive
    No opt-in from direct hoplink
    EPC seems good but alters depending on source of traffic.
    Very low competition on clickbank
    This is probably the only product (i think) that is backed up by solid research and includes hundreds of references throughout the ebook and other materials.

    I am only guessing, but are most super (or larger) affiliates limited in what they promote? The super affiliates I have heard about seem to spend the majority of their effort on products in the IM/Weightloss/dating niche. I hope im wrong but maybe they do not have promotional resources in the addiction niche (like a large addiction email list)?

    Recently, I placed an ad on one of the top addiction forums and saw a dramatic increase in sales and gave me a three-fold ROI. I am considering buying a larger media ad on some addiction sites which might be a good option. But this is all new to me. I have been an affiliate for a few years, mostly dabbling in video marketing and articles.

    I would love to hear some constructive critisizm and I am even willing to hear some harsh critisizm.

    If you wanted to see the product to give input it is TruthOfAddiction | Overcome Addiction by A. Scott Roberts

    I think your input would be invaluable and perhaps can also help other warriors that are getting ready to launch a clickbank product.

    Also, the thing we are lacking are some testimonials. We have received about 4 testimonials (positive reviews) on the product already but they did not wish to have it published on the site. Probably because of the embarrassing nature (pornography addiction and drug addiction-don't want to be publicly known).

    But we still get sales so it seems that testimonials aren't quit as important right now.

    Thank You for any responses and input I receive! Much appreciated.
    If attracting affiliates were a perfect science, then people wouldn't fail at it ALL THE TIME. There is a lot of luck involved in this process and no guarantee. Some of the crappiest products ever made have signed up hundreds to thousands of affiliates who actually make at least a few sales. Meanwhile, a presumably good product like yours attracts very little.

    Have you already contacted all the top addiction sites/blogs out there and asked them to promote your product? If not, you can do that. And if they say no, ask to do a guest post and include your home page in that article. Ironically, some will allow you to guest post and keep all the money instead of promoting your product as an affiliate. Some people are weird like that.

    Other than that, it sounds like you are already on the way to having a plan for buying ads and making sales that way. As hard as it is to swallow, it's just not possible for everyone to sign up super affiliates. Just like a YouTube video, your campaign has to go viral somehow unless you are already one of the big players.
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    • Profile picture of the author theresearcher1
      Originally Posted by dewayneboyd View Post

      If attracting affiliates were a perfect science, then people wouldn't fail at it ALL THE TIME. There is a lot of luck involved in this process and no guarantee. Some of the crappiest products ever made have signed up hundreds to thousands of affiliates who actually make at least a few sales. Meanwhile, a presumably good product like yours attracts very little.

      Have you already contacted all the top addiction sites/blogs out there and asked them to promote your product? If not, you can do that. And if they say no, ask to do a guest post and include your home page in that article. Ironically, some will allow you to guest post and keep all the money instead of promoting your product as an affiliate. Some people are weird like that.

      Other than that, it sounds like you are already on the way to having a plan for buying ads and making sales that way. As hard as it is to swallow, it's just not possible for everyone to sign up super affiliates. Just like a YouTube video, your campaign has to go viral somehow unless you are already one of the big players.
      Very good input. One thing I found out is that creating a good product is the easy part. Attracting affiliates and marketing the product is relatively much harder, for me anyway. I do agree that many low quality products can get tons of affiliates, while some better ones get ignored or buried.

      Anyway I have only just begun to contact top addiction websites (I should have done this earlier). Thank you for your insight.
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  • Profile picture of the author JRJWrites
    Have you tried taking proactive steps to recruit larger, more qualified affiliates?

    Have you checked out large-scale blogs in your niche that have promoted similar affiliate products in the past?
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    • Profile picture of the author theresearcher1
      Originally Posted by JRJWrites View Post

      Have you tried taking proactive steps to recruit larger, more qualified affiliates?

      Have you checked out large-scale blogs in your niche that have promoted similar affiliate products in the past?
      I was considering JVnotifypro but that seems to be more IM related, i felt my product didnt really fit there. But this gives me more Ideas.

      Thanks!
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      • Profile picture of the author JRJWrites
        Originally Posted by theresearcher1 View Post

        I was considering JVnotifypro but that seems to be more IM related, i felt my product didnt really fit there. But this gives me more Ideas.

        Thanks!
        Great.

        I've never really heard of it, but I hope it works out for you.

        I was thinking more along the lines of personally e-mailing website owners in your niche, alerting them that you have a ___ product giving away a ___ commission on every sale.

        Most won't bite, but a few might, provided that you build a relationship with them first.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    buy some traffic.

    if its converting well, your gravity will go up.

    then affiliates will notice.

    when your offer converts, affiliates will find you. :-)
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  • You might want to ignore this because I know SFA about affiliates.

    But the thought I had was, isn't it a lot cheaper buying traffic than paying out 60% plus every time a sales gets made by somebody else?

    Some might say, "Steve you idiot, get stacks of affiliates and they can sell in volumes"

    And I say, "Yes, I can understand that, but if you can buy volumes of converting traffic isn't it cheaper?"

    Anyway as davemiz said, you can get the best of both worlds.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Steve,

    Thing is traffic generation is a whole 'nother skill...

    And not an easy one (it costs a LOT of money to get it right... and a lot of time.)

    That's why affiliates are great. They know traffic.

    Won't add anything else other than to say yes, delayed buy buttons almost always boost conversions. Wait until the price reveal before showing.

    -Daniel
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  • It really isn't good for me to try and talk about something I know nothing about.

    But now I see why affiliates may be the answer.

    (in the name of all that is holy though, at 60 - 70% of the "take" they better HAD be the answer)


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    70% isn't that bad. Most of the time with cold traffic you're either making less on the front end or more commonly breaking even... sometimes even losing money.

    HOWEVER, you've got an awesome backend that you can then make up the value of that customer many times over.

    It's rare to get the kind of affiliates who drive endless traffic.

    -Daniel
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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  • So, if I have a client whose big ambition is to write a CB product at a price point of say $79.00.

    After buying the traffic and paying the affiliates the chances are the profits won't arrive until the second (backend) product is sold.

    Blimey, or less politely put f***.

    Mind you as I've always said the interweb isn't always a direct road to riches, fame and fortune.

    (there's a lot of detours and expensive travel involved)


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      The beauty of affiliates, especially the good ones, is that THEY buy the traffic, THEY setup a blog about your product, THEY post on Facebook, THEY run a press release, THEY post in forums, etc.

      In other words, once you get to where you are attracting proactive affiliates that know how to do their job, you don't have to buy or provide the traffic. Let them do it for the most part. Besides if YOU are buying the traffic, then you don't pay affiliates because you are the one that brought the visitor NOT someone else.

      Mark

      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      So, if I have a client whose big ambition is to write a CB product at a price point of say $79.00.

      After buying the traffic and paying the affiliates the chances are the profits won't arrive until the second (backend) product is sold.

      Blimey, or less politely put f***.

      Mind you as I've always said the interweb isn't always a direct road to riches, fame and fortune.

      (there's a lot of detours and expensive travel involved)


      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
        Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

        So, if I have a client whose big ambition is to write a CB product at a price point of say $79.00.

        After buying the traffic and paying the affiliates the chances are the profits won't arrive until the second (backend) product is sold.

        Blimey, or less politely put f***.

        Mind you as I've always said the interweb isn't always a direct road to riches, fame and fortune.

        (there's a lot of detours and expensive travel involved)


        Steve
        I think you misunderstand...

        In most cases, the cost to acquire a customer w/ cold traffic is over $100.

        So with your typical funnel (front end, continuity w/ free trial, 3 upsell path)...

        You probably won't make much, if any, money on day one.

        Money starts coming in after that.

        Obviously this all depends on how fine-tuned your funnel is, but yes, it's BRUTAL.

        Fun though!

        Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

        The beauty of affiliates, especially the good ones, is that THEY buy the traffic, THEY setup a blog about your product, THEY post on Facebook, THEY run a press release, THEY post in forums, etc.

        In other words, once you get to where you are attracting proactive affiliates that know how to do their job, you don't have to buy or provide the traffic. Let them do it for the most part. Besides if YOU are buying the traffic, then you don't pay affiliates because you are the one that brought the visitor NOT someone else.

        Mark
        Except for the fact that affiliates are flighty. IMHO, you need to take control of your traffic sources for true long-term success.

        -Daniel
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        Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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  • Yes, it's nearly coming into focus.

    The 1,007 shenanigans and endless malarky just to get the good people to look at the site, are handled by the A teams.


    Steve


    P.S. Does anybody remember running Press Ads?

    You pick the paper or magazine that your target audience reads.

    The circulation is "audited" so you have a clear idea of the readership.

    Place the Ad.

    And if it's good - the response comes flooding in.

    Bliss.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Ugh. This presents as yet another clone of the Benson video method. If I hear again "pay very close attention to this video because it may not be up for long" I think I'm going to puke. And I'm not sure the whiteboard is suitable for this. Ditto the corny masthead with the smiling dude pouring the booze etc. But the BIG problem here is - CREDIBILITY.

    "Hi I'm E. Scott Roberts (or whatever his name is) ". If I'm addicted...or one of family is...why would I trust some punter on Clickwank - of all places - to steer me right? You've gone with a "How to make money online" scam-like presentation and that my boy aint gonna fly.

    But why on earth would you come to a public forum like this to solve it? Most of the "advice" you'll get here will be "iffy" at best. As in - "opinions are like - - - - - - - - everyone has one".

    If you're serious about your business you'll engage someone who knows what they're doing.

    And never, ever say "learn" ...use "discover" or "uncover" or some other word. People don't want to "learn" - that sounds like work.
    You’ll Learn About Some Amazing Breakthroughs and Unusual Tips Such As
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      If I hear again "pay very close attention to this video because it may not be up for long" I think I'm going to puke.
      We actually split tested this recently and it seems to be working very well still. Not sure how long that trend will continue, but for now at least it's solid.
      Signature

      Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author theresearcher1
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Ugh. This presents as yet another clone of the Benson video method. If I hear again "pay very close attention to this video because it may not be up for long" I think I'm going to puke.
      I am not Scott Roberts, I am just working for him but I do know that he hired many professionals to organize structure his video the way it is. And I am not sure what is wrong with the Benson video layout as it has been proven successful in converting. In fact, the average site visitor stay is 5 minutes (as seen on alexa.com). It appears those words used are the very things keeping the visitor engaged.

      As an affiliate marketer myself I understand what you mean, sometimes these things are annoying, because we know what those words are doing and we sometimes don't like watching a 15 minute video before we see the buy button -we are all too familiar with these tactics, but fact is they are not for us, and they are proven to work and convert better to traffic it is targeted toward.

      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      And I'm not sure the whiteboard is suitable for this. Ditto the corny masthead with the smiling dude pouring the booze etc. But the BIG problem here is - CREDIBILITY.

      "Hi I'm E. Scott Roberts (or whatever his name is) ". If I'm addicted...or one of family is...why would I trust some punter on Clickwank - of all places - to steer me right? You've gone with a "How to make money online" scam-like presentation and that my boy aint gonna fly.
      This is one thing I believe you are wrong with, the credibility issue. Scott Roberts has a few degrees in counseling and psychology and is a REAL person. It isnt a made up name. All and everything in the material is given scientific references on studies from published medical journals. I would even go so far as to say that it may be the only extensively evidence-based and referenced product on clickbank that I know of. I never see any other product back up its claims with solid scientific data other than maybe a couple references plastered below a sales page and not properly cited.

      If anything is scammy, it is products (such as some found in the IM niche) that are not backed by references, not tested, use fake names, have no scientific validity, sold by people that show earning screenshots of their money they earned selling a program instead of using the technique they are selling.


      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      But why on earth would you come to a public forum like this to solve it? Most of the "advice" you'll get here will be "iffy" at best. As in - "opinions are like - - - - - - - - everyone has one".

      If you're serious about your business you'll engage someone who knows what they're doing.

      And never, ever say "learn" ...use "discover" or "uncover" or some other word. People don't want to "learn" - that sounds like work.
      The reason I came here is to get advice on gaining more affiliates, what better place than a forum that arguably has the most engaged affiliates? How else to obtain advice if it is through the opinions of others?
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by theresearcher1 View Post

        I am not Scott Roberts, I am just working for him but I do know that he hired many professionals to organize structure his video the way it is. And I am not sure what is wrong with the Benson video layout as it has been proven successful in converting. In fact, the average site visitor stay is 5 minutes (as seen on alexa.com). It appears those words used may be keeping the visitor engaged.

        As an affiliate marketer myself I understand what you mean though. We know what those words are doing and we sometimes don't like watching a 15 minute video before we see the buy button we are all too familiar with these tactics, but fact is they are proven to work and convert better.

        But there is one thing I believe you may be wrong here. That is the credibility issue. Scott Roberts has a few degrees in counseling and psychology and is a real person. It isn't a made up name. All and everything in the material is given scientific references on studies from published medical journals. If anything is scammy at best, it is products (such as some in the IM niche) that are not backed by references, not tested, use fake names, have no scientific validity, sold by people that show earning screenshots of their money they earned selling a program instead of using the technique they are selling.

        As a beginning affiliate marketer, before I got my current job, these are the types of things that I see have no credibility.

        The reason I came here is to get advice on gaining more affiliates, what better place than a forum that arguably has the most engaged affiliates? How else to obtain advice if it is through the opinions of others?
        You did say
        I can handle hard critisizm if you dish it out
        but you appear to already have your nose out of joint.

        $15k was spent on the whiteboard video à la Benson but it's not working is it - otherwise you wouldn't be here looking for the Silver Bullet.

        Personally I find the video boring. It's the same old, same old..."scientifically proven" uh huh...stats and figures...that bloody-awful "FREE video presentation". Tell me - who do you know that pays to watch a video? And then the Voiceover drones on and on. Just about had me nodding off. The graphics are pixellated on my Mac running Firefox. $15K and you can't get it to pop?

        The credibility issue - he might have degrees out the wing-wang but its just a bunch of letters as far as I'm concerned. Some, if not most, of those qualifications can be gained online. They mean squat.

        the credibility issue. Scott Roberts has a few degrees in counseling and psychology and is a real person.
        You haven't established that have you? You've just gone straight into a cartoon presentation. Presented on the scammer's viper nest of CB. Real good look for something like this. Not.

        There is no credibility...and no dirty great hook. Just the usual B.S. boring the pants off the viewer. Do you think people watching the video and reading that dreary page of copy are going to whack themselves in the head and say "I gotta get this right now!" I think not.

        You're not attracting decent affiliates or so-called super-affiliates because they can do much better on the other niches. And this product won't ring their bells.
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        • Profile picture of the author theresearcher1
          Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

          You did say
          but you appear to already have your nose out of joint.

          $15k was spent on the whiteboard video à la Benson but it's not working is it - otherwise you wouldn't be here looking for the Silver Bullet.

          Personally I find the video boring. It's the same old, same old..."scientifically proven" uh huh...stats and figures...that bloody-awful "FREE video presentation". Tell me - who do you know that pays to watch a video? And then the Voiceover drones on and on. Just about had me nodding off. The graphics are pixellated on my Mac running Firefox. $15K and you can't get it to pop?

          The credibility issue - he might have degrees out the wing-wang but its just a bunch of letters as far as I'm concerned. Some, if not most, of those qualifications can be gained online. They mean squat.

          You haven't established that have you? You've just gone straight into a cartoon presentation. Presented on the scammer's viper nest of CB. Real good look for something like this. Not.

          There is no credibility...and no dirty great hook. Just the usual B.S. boring the pants off the viewer. Do you think people watching the video and reading that dreary page of copy are going to whack themselves in the head and say "I gotta get this right now!" I think not.

          You're not attracting decent affiliates or so-called super-affiliates because they can do much better on the other niches. And this product won't ring their bells.
          Regardless of the seeming unprofessional rapport - I do value your points, I really do appreciate your taking the time to analyze it. Although I didn't expect words like "B.S." thrown around but I saw the list of your infractions on your profile which gives me some understanding as to why.

          You have actually given me a few good ideas, which is great. And I thank you for it and everyone else who contributed. It is very valuable information. I think our next step is to improve the sales video, and stop the leaky traffic - solid advice and I appreciate that.
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          • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
            Banned
            Originally Posted by theresearcher1 View Post

            Regardless of the seeming unprofessional rapport - I do value your points, I really do appreciate your taking the time to analyze it. Although I didn't expect words like "B.S." thrown around but I saw the list of your infractions on your profile which gives me some understanding as to why.

            You have actually given me a few good ideas, which is great. And I thank you for it and everyone else who contributed. It is very valuable information. I think our next step is to improve the sales video, and stop the leaky traffic - solid advice and I appreciate that.
            Well...I call myself The Copy Nazi - riffing on Seinfeld's "The Soup Nazi" - for a very good reason - I don't mince my words and I have no time for people who don't "get it". If something is a dog I'll tell you. And this sir is a dog. Doesn't matter how much traffic you buy - this aint gonna fly. Its all over the place like a madwoman's breakfast. I haven't told you half of what needs fixing - usually I get paid to do a number on copy/launches - so I'm not going to go through and analyse this for zip.

            You think using words like "B.S." unprofessional? Excuse me while I have a good laugh. You obviously haven't worked in this world much or worked in media. Ever seen Kern at full throttle? Hung out at Vegas with the boys?

            What have you been doing? "Video Marketing" and articles. Uh huh.

            As for the "infractions" - most of them are BS too. Last one was from a "permanently banned" guy that snuck back in under another name and reported me for calling a troll a p - - - -. Go ahead and report me for using naughty words - I could care less.

            If you want to get the best from the commenters here swallow your pride and drop the snarky comments. You don't learn anything that way. I just file you under "Won't take advice" and move on.
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  • Alright then.

    The cost to get a happy customer is circa $100.00* (best to make sure they are deliriously delighted because you don't want to have to knock out too many refunds).

    Then with all the powers of persuasion you must sell the next product (then all the blood, sweat and tears might pay off).

    The moral to my story is - have a bunch of top notch products before you venture into the cyber markets on the information superhighway.


    Steve


    P.S. * This is for cold traffic. Roughly how many gold bullions do you need for tepid, warm or red hot traffic?

    (with agonising thoughts like this, I'm so glad I like postcards, flyers and those old fangled pieces of paper with wondrous words stuffed into an envelope...stamps are fairly inexpensive)
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    I remember this website because the marketer himself poked his head in this forum a year or so ago looking for help.

    In the current version, I think Mal's right on all points. In fact, Mal would be the perfect copywriter for this. The piece needs to shock, to wake people up and make the connection "this could be you".



    In addition, if I had an addiction (and wasn't in denial), do I think I'd look for a solution from a cartoon? Would I want something "evidenced based and data driven?" Would I want something that sounded hard? Would I want to pay $50 for a look see? Would I want to read what sounded like an academic book?

    Probably not.

    I think the marketer fails to understand his audience from a marketing perspective. He may be able to help them with addiction, but he doesn't know how to sell them something.

    If it were me, I'd be spending a ton of time defining who my market is specifically. You can't just say "my market is people with addictions" because minimally your market is addicts who want to make a change. Addicts can't be helped unless their ready to be helped.

    Addicts ready to change have certain "earmarks."

    Right now you define your audience has "You or anyone you love who has a problem with..."

    This is a BIG deal.

    As for the copywriter who wrote this, he doesn't understand the market either. There are lots of things I could point out.

    Maybe he should hang out at a few AA meetings. That's what I'd do. Corner a few newcomers and pick their brains clean. Find out what caused them to make the decision to try AA as opposed to some other method.

    That said, I appreciate the commitment to success. In the Wayback Machine, here's what the video was prior:

    TruthOfAddiction

    - Rick Duris

    PS: Not to get all technical, but the video is severely flawed from a clinical perspective. For instance, referencing a study on rats is at best inappropriate.

    I would support your claims with research done on HUMANS.

    PPS: It would be interesting if you could create a credible survey that could go viral. Something like "Are you an addict?" or "How to know if you have an addiction" or "How to tell if you have an addiction". (How you frame it would be important.)

    Whip up a little PR and send it out to FB. Friends and loved ones would probably send it to people.
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Two things come to mind...

      1 Is the message for the addict or someone close to the addict
      who wants to help the addict?

      2 At this moment in time when the addict has decided to do something
      about it, what is his/her thoughts? You must be able to verbalize it and use
      that as the starting point of your message to bridge the gap from where he/she is
      at this point to get where he/she wants to go. Those small steps must seem the right
      and logical step for the reader.

      You must optimize the thought sequence of your reader.
      And you can't do that untill you know and can say what the addict is thinking
      at any point of time in his/her journey to recovery. The addict will be judging your message
      by the filter, "does he understand what I'm going through?".

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Rick, your image posting brings up an interesting case as to whether shock
        advertising works to stop addictions.

        In part of a book on advertising I read, which the title remains a mystery
        for me at the moment, the author cited a research study where they put
        brain scanners on smokers who watched a series of TV ads.

        The researchers could tell which part of the brain was associated to cravings.

        Anyway, the results showed that the ads used to shock smokers out of their habit,
        actually activated their cravings for a cigarette.

        Best,
        Ewen
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        • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
          Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          Rick, your image posting brings up an interesting case as to whether shock
          advertising works to stop addictions.

          In part of a book on advertising I read, which the title remains a mystery
          for me at the moment, the author cited a research study where they put
          brain scanners on smokers who watched a series of TV ads.

          The researchers could tell which part of the brain was associated to cravings.

          Anyway, the results showed that the ads used to shock smokers out of their habit,
          actually activated their cravings for a cigarette.

          Best,
          Ewen
          Ewen, that's interesting. I didn't think about it in this context, but I would suspect any kind of advertising related to their situation would activate cravings at some level.

          But if that's true, maybe there's way to hijack their cravings and instead of reaching for their substance of choice, they hit the buy button.

          Too devious, perhaps?

          - Rick Duris

          PS: Those PSA ads run all the time in the US. Whether they work or not, I don't know.

          But I know the Direct TV ads are very popular which are based up on similar theme:
          DirecTV TV Commercial, 'Wig Shop' - YouTube
          Signature
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

            Ewen, that's interesting. I didn't about it in this context, but I would suspect any kind of advertising related to their situation would activate cravings at some level.

            But if that's true, maybe there's way to hijack their cravings and instead of reaching for their substance of choice, they hit the buy button.

            Too devious, perhaps?

            - Rick Duris
            You might be onto something Rick.

            Let them know of a substitute as the entry point offer,
            then the full recovery product on the upsell.

            Plus can have the replacement for each type of addiction,
            making the message much more revalent.

            Since there are proven product buyers of replacements for nicotine,
            lets work with that entry point into the mind.

            Best,
            Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      In addition, if I had an addiction (and wasn't in denial), do I think I'd look for a solution from a cartoon? Would I want something "evidenced based and data driven?" Would I want something that sounded hard? Would I want to pay $50 for a look see? Would I want to read what sounded like an academic book?

      Probably not.

      I think the marketer fails to understand his audience from a marketing perspective. He may be able to help them with addiction, but he doesn't know how to sell them something.

      If it were me, I'd be spending a ton of time defining who my market is specifically. You can't just say "my market is people with addictions" because minimally your market is addicts who want to make a change. Addicts can't be helped unless their ready to be helped.

      Addicts ready to change have certain "earmarks."
      Yep. Usually an addict can't begin the recovery process until he/she has hit Rock Bottom. I don't see that person jumping on Google to find a solution to their addiction. They're way past that. Which is why this would be better pitched at family and friends trying to help an addict.

      An addict will go through many "rock bottoms" - over and over again...until he/she finds the true "rock bottom" which is really "I can no longer go on like this and I need help". Before they've reached that stage you're wasting your time trying to stop their addictive behaviour. They have got to want to stop - desperately.

      Then...you're not going to get through to them by getting them to watch a cartoon or read a book on addiction. They've been there/done that. A much more powerful presentation - and we do this with the "make money online" niche - is "I was once like you. Let me tell you a story..."

      You get the viewer to relate. You hit them with full-frontal shock. You get them relating...nodding their head. "I bet you've tried a zillion things to get over your addiction. I bet you've done a geographical - moved away to get away from bad influences. I bet you've tried having a friend monitor you. I bet you've tried counselling. I bet you've....etc

      What Ewen is suggesting might work. You could pitch that with this line - "Here - have a taste"

      This is hilarious -
      For instance, referencing a study on rats is at best inappropriate.
      That could be turned around. "You know they've done clinical trials on rats that show.....But you're not a rat. Or are you? You're behaving like one. They ring the bell and you come looking for your dose. Then you keep repeating the same self-destructive behavior. You look for your reward. Am I right? You know I am. Blah blah
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post



      Where's Subtle when you need him?

      This might work better with the line "She's only 19, dude"
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Originally Posted by theresearcher1 View Post

    Recently, I placed an ad on one of the top addiction forums and saw a dramatic increase in sales and gave me a three-fold ROI. I am considering buying a larger media ad on some addiction sites which might be a good option. But this is all new to me. I have been an affiliate for a few years, mostly dabbling in video marketing and articles.
    Sounds like the copy is working fine. Your problem is traffic...

    But jeeze a 3-fold ROI without testing/tweaking? I'd be buying as much media as I could find for this bad boy...

    -Daniel
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      You'll add more sales automatically, just by having this present offer
      as an upsell on a entry product, say at a $3.95 or $7 price point.

      If they don't take up either offer, retarget them using a platform like
      PerfectAudience. Run an ad for the low entry non buyers
      and run an ad for the non buyers of your main product.

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author theresearcher1
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        You'll add more sales automatically, just by having this present offer
        as an upsell on a entry product, say at a $3.95 or $7 price point.

        If they don't take up either offer, retarget them using a platform like
        PerfectAudience. Run an ad for the low entry non buyers
        and run an ad for the non buyers of your main product.

        Best,
        Ewen
        Great. I haven't heard of perfectaudience I will have to check that out. Thank you
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      But jeeze a 3-fold ROI without testing/tweaking? I'd be buying as much media as I could find for this bad boy...
      I'm with Daniel and Dave. Don't worry about amping up the copy or getting affiliates to promote. Just buy the traffic.

      And Ewen's advice about re-targeting would work as well.

      - Rick Duris
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author theresearcher1
        Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

        I with Daniel and Dave. Don't worry about amping up the copy or getting affiliates to promote. Just buy the traffic.

        And Ewen's advice about re-targeting would work as well.

        - Rick Duris
        I love it. You guys have been incredibly helpful.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

        I with Daniel and Dave. Don't worry about amping up the copy or getting affiliates to promote. Just buy the traffic.

        And Ewen's advice about re-targeting would work as well.

        - Rick Duris
        $30 mill. of sales in many different markets says always
        run the main product offer through a low entry price offer first.
        It's offered on the thank you page.
        Never has failed to increase sales of main
        product when done this way.

        The buyers critical thinking seems to be shut off
        at this point in time.

        Best,
        Ewen
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        • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
          Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          $30 mill. of sales in many different markets says always
          run the main product offer through a low entry price offer first.
          It's offered on the thank you page.
          Never has failed to increase sales of main
          product when done this way.

          The buyers critical thinking seems to be shut off
          at this point in time.

          Best, Ewen
          Ewen- I've seen this type of funnel recommended by a few marketers I really trust now, including the likes of Ryan Deiss and it's definitely something I'd like to test...

          Could you possibly elaborate more on the details of how this works, or point to any sales funnels set up like this?
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

            Ewen- I've seen this type of funnel recommended by a few marketers I really trust now, including the likes of Ryan Deiss and it's definitely something I'd like to test...

            Could you possibly elaborate more on the details of how this works, or point to any sales funnels set up like this?
            Sent a PM Luke.

            Best,
            Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author Reckoned
    I don't know... but doesn't the offer seem too vague? It probably won't feel personalized to sufferers of specific addictions.

    If it's a new product, why would you hit it straight on as a generic product, with no product mechanism or special hook? It confuses me.
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