Help a confused rookie today

17 replies
I am just studying to write copy for quick profit at this time-with a desire to change to writing for fun and challenge in the future. I need to pay bills and start with NICHE that has low entry point, least amount of skill for now.
-I find the prospect of working for others frightening. I have been there done that, after several attempts at being a good slave. Discovered that is not for me thinking long term.
- There has been some great threads to read here but, I only have so much time to read all 1000 so I would appreciate answers to a couple basic questions.

1. When starting out how does one trying to make the magic happen ASAP to pay bills and Travel to Exotic places in my mind get going. The advice I was given by another copy trainer was pick a strength or area of copy then make an offer to do freebie. The challenge is a newbie doesn't know the differences in what is in demand and high profit.
-Also new copy writers wouldnt know the short path to markets with low point of entry. It makes more sense if I hear someone say why not try sales copy because xxxxx. Instead of here are 7 options you know nothing about but pick one anyways.

2. Where are the best places to post an offer to do free or cheap work that some of you may have tried.
Thanks for taking time to read this post.
.
#confused #rookie #today
  • Profile picture of the author Tim R
    Start with learning how to write a cohesive sentence that incorporates correct grammar and punctuation. And take the time to break your writing up into short paragraphs, not clunky blocks of text.

    From what you've written here it sounds like English is your second language. If you want anyone to hire you, get a handle on the basics of writing first.

    Instead of focusing on what you want to get out of writing copy, think about what you have to offer that other people will pay you for.
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    • Profile picture of the author marketingstatic
      Originally Posted by Tim R View Post

      Start with learning how to write a cohesive sentence that incorporates correct grammar and punctuation. And take the time to break your writing up into short paragraphs, not clunky blocks of text.

      From what you've written here it sounds like English is your second language. If you want anyone to hire you, get a handle on the basics of writing first.

      Instead of focusing on what you want to get out of writing copy, think about what you have to offer that other people will pay you for.
      Wow, I agree with shortening part but just FYI I have read many copy experts that say, not to worry about grammar. I believe there is even a link in here that reads something to the effect of grammar is for sissies not selling.
      -
      To write to an audience not your school English Professor-
      I am guessing no one taught you manners judging by your statement. Assuming that English is my second language, when needed, I can write with required grammar structure well enough.
      -
      I have plenty to offer people including not speaking, unless I have something constructive to say. One Thing I know for certain. There is no need for me to include disparaging remarks to my prospective clients or colleagues. Especially people I don't know in order to improve my position or make myself feel better. Business Ethics 101 and just being a good person apparently is a lost art.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chriswrighto
        Originally Posted by marketingstatic View Post

        Wow, I agree with shortening part but just FYI I have read many copy experts that say, not to worry about grammar. I believe there is even a link in here that reads something to the effect of grammar is for sissies not selling.
        -
        To write to an audience not your school English Professor-
        I am guessing no one taught you manners judging by your statement. Assuming that English is my second language when needed, I can write with required grammar structure just fine.
        -
        I have plenty to offer people including not speaking, unless I have something constructive to say. One Thing I know for certain. There is no need for me to include disparaging remarks to my prospective clients or colleagues. Especially people I dont know in order to improve my position or make myself feel better.
        Hi,

        Although he came across very directly, his point is one to listen to...

        Whilst grammar isn't as important, it still remains crucial.

        If your copy isn't making sense or isn't flowing, people will leave.

        Hope that clears it up.
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  • Profile picture of the author edgeyy66
    Perfect grammar doesn't really matter - but readability does. Your opening paragraph is barely legible and borders of gibberish.

    Quote "I am just studing to write copy for quick profit more fun and challenge in the future when I am more capable and have time to grow in skillset. I find the prospect of working for others frightening after several attempts at being a good slave. There has been some great threads to read here but I only have so much time to read all 1000 so appreciate answers to a couple basic questions"

    I can get the basic drift of what you are saying but if you wasa consumer I wouldn't make it past the first sentence.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim R
    Good copywriters know that they need to write in a way that is easily understood. I'm not saying it needs to be a literary masterpiece, but you need to get the basics right.

    My advice was intended to be constructive, despite what you may think. The only thing people have to go by is what you've written. Your post gave the impression you don't know how to write coherently, which is why I suggested this is the first thing you need to work on.

    If you send out a proposal to someone asking to do any kind of writing for them, and your proposal is littered with mistakes, do you think they will hire you?
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  • Profile picture of the author marketingstatic
    Thanks for the input. I think the lesson learned here. Be aware of the format and tools. Writing inside the box supplied here can be strange compared to MS Word it is two different worlds. However, I see all of the points on readability, short sentences. Good structure and readability no matter what the medium of communication are key to any desired success.
    -
    Especially looking at how many times I have seen other Warriors that do sometimes offer overflow work to newbies. I can see where its best to not put out anything that can be read, regardless of medium that you wouldnt be proud of.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by marketingstatic View Post

      Thanks for the input. I think the lesson learned here. Be aware of the format and tools. Writing inside the box supplied here can be strange compared to MS Word it is two different worlds. However, I see all of the points on readability, short sentences. Good structure and readability no matter what the medium of communication are key to any desired success.
      -
      Especially looking at how many times I have seen other Warriors that do sometimes offer overflow work to newbies. I can see where its best to not put out anything that can be read, regardless of medium that you wouldnt be proud of.
      Are you a bot? Because that's what this reads like.
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      • Profile picture of the author marketingstatic
        Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

        Are you a bot? Because that's what this reads like.
        No, but to my point. The Headline says Help a CONFUSED Rookie.

        I get what your trying to say, but again Rookie with no experience means I'm just starting out. So finding my voice and such is still a work in progress.

        I think I found the advice I was seeking from J Kanigan in a recent thread here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    You're right that simple language is all that's needed to write effective copy.

    The problem is...

    That's not what you're doing in any of your posts.

    You're a confused rookie, right?

    Let's agree that your only job right now is to listen, learn, apply, reapply... and keep asking.

    You're in NO position to ask anyone for their money. Not yet. Not for a while - from what I can see.

    I will give you props for thing...

    Basic business ethics is a lost art.

    Too many people hustling for their next bite - instead of making sure the bites they've received are happy fish.

    If You Smell What The Mark Is Smoking!

    Mark
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    Do You Want To Make 5 and 6-Figures A Month As A Freelance Copywriter? My Copywriting System Has Made Over 600 Million Dollars. Discover More

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    • Profile picture of the author marketingstatic
      First let me say thanks for all who took time to provide their insight.

      Second let me make an observation about why I still have the confusion bug on the initial questions.

      One person says the only way to become good is just do it.

      Then I come in here to ask a question and now, the majority who responded say don't do it. To which I say WTF which, stands for "what the forum" in case you wandered.

      When then is a person learned enough to write. When is it that a person knows he or she has read enough or watched enough videos to jump in the water?

      Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

      You're right that simple language is all that's needed to write effective copy.

      The problem is...

      That's not what you're doing in any of your posts.

      You're a confused rookie, right?

      Let's agree that your only job right now is to listen, learn, apply, reapply... and keep asking.

      You're in NO position to ask anyone for their money. Not yet. Not for a while - from what I can see.

      I will give you props for thing...

      Basic business ethics is a lost art.

      Too many people hustling for their next bite - instead of making sure the bites they've received are happy fish.

      If You Smell What The Mark Is Smoking!

      Mark
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      Happy new Year 2019

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      • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
        Originally Posted by marketingstatic View Post

        When is it that a person knows he or she has read enough or watched enough videos to jump in the water?
        You can work with a mentor and they'll tell you.

        You can write an ad for yourself and post it here for critique.

        You can write copy for affiliate products and you'll know because you'll start making regular sales.
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        Andrew Gould

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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ausin
    Sometimes I can't believe how nice people can be on this board.

    OP, your language is miles away from where it needs to be to write copy that converts. At least from what I see here.

    OP, the "majority who responded don't do it" probably did so because you do NOT sound like a human being. You're not able to string a semi-coherent sentence together, at least not yet.

    If I may give you a piece of advice it would be pay less attention right now to all the salesmanship and focus on how real people talk instead. (I'm of course operating under the assumption that you want to work in the American market. It might be different if you're targeting Martians.)

    It says under your username that you're located in Iowa. Well, go out more. LISTEN to people. Plus READ. Not only sales copy but magazines and books, too. Watch TV shows. And write the way people naturally speak.

    I'm gonna get off that high horse now... Best of luck to you and keep trying. That's how you go places.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jennie Heckel
    Hi Marketing Static,

    We all have to start SOMEWHERE, right?

    With that thought in mind...

    Here are some things I would recommend for you to do to boost your training and future success as a copywriter.

    First is find a ton of cheap writing paper and COPY BY HAND sales letters that sell! (Be sure to get a good flowing ink pen to do this which is easy to write with. I prefer the new roller ball pens.)

    Now one of the easiest sales letters to write is an Internet Marketing sales letter, for selling something you LIKE. Pick a topic you may have as a hobby or something you could see yourself writing a sales letter for on a product you might want to sell someday.

    You can go to Clickbank.com and create a free account and then click the "Marketplace" tab and find a ton of high converting sales letters you can copy to get you off to a good start.

    By writing about something you are interested in you are actively engaged with copying it over. And because it about a topic you like, generally that means you will stick with it longer. Plus, doing this helps you with your sentence structure, grammer, word useage, how a sales letter is constructed, and you will start to feel how the sales letter flows like a slippery slide to the buy button -- and a whole lot more!

    *HERE'S WHAT'S IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS*

    What copying out a sales letter by hand does for you are all these things...

    1. It helps your mind and your hands start to work together (self-trains your mind) so you start to 'think and write' like a copywriter.

    2. Writing the sales letter out by hand also helps to make you use both sides of your brain, which most copywriters do automatically.

    By this I mean by looking at the copy you are copying from, this uses one side of your brain, and then while concentrating to actually write the copy out by hand, uses another side of your brain.

    In scientific terms this helps to increase the amount of neural pathways between the right and left hemispheres of your brain which will (in the long run) help you think and write more like a copywriter writes.

    3. By writing the same sales letter over and over (seveal times!) you will find the sales letter sort of gets "inside your brain". With repetition you start feeling the flow and the cadance of the copy. (How it has a certain rhythum to the words, length of the sentences etc.)

    When you can feel this it is so much easier to SEE why a certain sales letter SELLS BETTER than another.

    It takes time and effort but the rewards are certainly worth it.

    4. Another thing to do is just copy out headlines and the lead in or (deck copy) for several sales letters in the SAME NICHE.

    When you do that you will find similar themes and words and phrases which are used to EVOKE EMOTIONS which are key to hitting the nerve (finding the hook) for a niche product.

    If you go to the top dating sites you can see this clearly illustrated.

    5. Another thing I personally do when I am relaxing is I was the Made for TV Station Products and write down the catchy slogans and sales comments the sales person is making about the item for sale. You will find many gems you can use in your copy (edit them of course) to give you new ideas for your sales letters.

    6. Another thing you can do when your hands are sore from writing the copy by hand (and it will be!) is you can print out sales letters and then take a yellow highligher and see if you can find the "hook", the main theme and reasons why they are selling this and what problems it solves and at the end how they justify the price and ask for the sale.

    You will be surprised if you do this for a couple similar sales letters how close the same elements show up again and again.

    Once you can recognize this then you will be a good way down the road to thinking like a copywriter and then it is just practice, practice, practice.

    Good luck!

    Jennie Heckel
    Sales Letter Copywriter
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    ******* WSO & JV ZOO COPYWRITER -- VLS & SALES LETTERS PROVEN TO CONVERT ******* Get Higher Profits From Launches That SELL! Proven Copywriter with 17 Years of Copywriting Experience. Contact Me Via Skype: seoexpertconsulting Copywriting Website: http://www.VideoScriptCopywriter.com

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  • Profile picture of the author alodie
    Hi Marketingstatic,

    Please know that the members in this wonderful forum do really
    want to help their fellow warrior members succeed in their personal
    endeavors. And many of them often times go out of their way to
    provide the help and guidance others are seeking.

    I am not speaking for Tim R, but I am almost sure that the intent was
    not to "insult" you at all, but instead to offer help.

    Remember, you were the one who initiated the conversation by asking
    for help or guidance.

    Please do not feel offended.

    If you would listen to Chriswrighto and edgeyy66 and the others, and take
    their advice, you would be surprise just how well you do in moving forward
    to your goal.

    Best of luck, Marketingstatic.

    Alodie
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    "Providing personal and business transformational information: Working hard to always give the kind of value that will produce the best results for my customers. Because, the success of my business will depend on my customers' satisfaction."


    Alodieanne
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  • Profile picture of the author PDA Marketing
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
      Originally Posted by PDA Marketing View Post

      Recently I was speaking to someone about the letters on Yellow Lined Paper and he said that he had been using it successfully for years but recently stopped because it was getting expensive. He said that his calls just stopped. He was frantically trying to regroup and gain back the ground that he lost. This was one of many calls like this that I have taken. I do agree that the letters on Yellow Lined Paper produce leads, but to address the concern about whether it produces sales is the question. This really depends on your strategies for the conversion process. Are you a good closer or are you just another guy in the pack of guys going after the same piece of business? The letters on Yellow Lined Paper will get your piece to the "A" pile of mail and actually get it opened first, but for action to take place the what's next component must be addressed. Have you enclosed a business card or given the person some incentive to call you? Are you driving them to a landing page or free report that engages them? Will they get a second and third touch? OK...some of you are saying, "I just want the guy who is ready to sell his house." That's great, but remember this person is getting hammered with many messages. What will set you apart? What will set you apart is the personal touch. A hand written font like the "Andrea" font helps, but the language that you use to communicate is more important. Does your letter reach out and virtually shake the prospects' hand? Does it introduce you or your services? Does it EXPLAIN why you chose to use the Yellow Lined Letter? Wow...never thought of that, did you? The greater the ticket or more lengthy the process the more you need to focus on the trust-based aspect to your marketing techniques. People don't want to be sold. They want a problem to be solved. Here is why the letters on Yellow Lined Paper and hand written font (including copy enhancements) work, they are wrong. The person's brain receiving the Letter on Yellow Lined Paper views it as wrong.
      Look what Psychology Today says about this:
      It turns out that there are two typical brain responses to mistakes. One looks like a "wake up call." The brain hones in on the negative outcome, and treats it like a problem that needs solving. What happened, and why? The brain also increases its attention during the next decision, as if it is trying to prevent a repeat of the mistake. When this happens, people are much more likely to improve their performance and learn from the mistake.
      The second brain response looks more like a shutting down. The brain reacts to the negative feedback itself as a threat. To escape feeling bad, or doubting one's abilities, the brain chooses to not think about the mistake. Interesting, people whose brains show this shutting down response pay much more attention to positive feedback.
      So...once you have captured the attention of the audience, provide the positive personal feed back that is needed and response will increase.
      I can tell you want the brain response is to looking at that huge block of text....I'd rather stick a fork in my eye...
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  • Profile picture of the author Shazadi
    People have already commented on your writing, so regarding your other points:

    Originally Posted by marketingstatic View Post

    I am just studying to write copy for quick profit
    That's not going to happen. You have to prove yourself or at least have samples before anyone is going to take a chance on you. Also, even if you were working on your own product, that takes time and energy. If you're looking to make fast money this is not the right career for you.

    The closest thing I can think of would be to get involved with CPA marketing, so you'd be writing headlines and possibly landing pages... but that requires spending money to get started.

    Originally Posted by marketingstatic View Post

    I find the prospect of working for others frightening. I have been there done that, after several attempts at being a good slave. Discovered that is not for me thinking long term.
    You do realize that even as a freelancer you'll be working for other people, right?

    In fact, you'll likely be working for multiple clients who may only give you brief assignments (unsteady income), skip out on paying you at all (so you'll have to track them down) or otherwise ask you to revise your work just as if you were their "slave."

    If true freedom is what you're after, you're better off either creating a product and selling it with your own sales page/copy or marketing affiliate products.

    Originally Posted by marketingstatic View Post

    Also new copy writers wouldnt know the short path to markets with low point of entry.
    You're talking about niches here, right? Honestly I think it's a common misconception that you should pick a "micro-niche" to target. Yes, you might have the best Malaysian organic bean sprout website in the world, but your market is going to max out after a short period of time.

    Better to pick a BIG industry: fitness, dating, personal development, finance, etc - and carve out a place for yourself to grow.
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