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50%upfront? or 100%?

by roley
16 replies
When you offer copywriting services do you require 100% if you haven't worked with them before? or only 50% upfront? and 50% upon delivery?

I think there is a possibility you could get ripped off delivering work to someone who has only paid you 50%

Thoughts?
#100% #50%upfront
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Up to you and the client, roley.

    If you do 50%, make sure the amount is what you're comfortable with keeping if your client sours or disappears.
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    • Profile picture of the author roley
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      Up to you and the client, roley.

      If you do 50%, make sure the amount is what you're comfortable with keeping if your client sours or disappears.
      Right but what do most copywriters do?

      I mean when we are talking about $3,000. Not many clients are going to be comfortable if they have never worked with you before, handing over $3,000 at the start. Hell some might not be comfortable handing over 50% of that.

      There are pros and cons on either side.

      What is your advice on what you would do and why?
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  • Profile picture of the author roley
    I mean as a copywriter i feel more comfortable asking for 100% upfront as I haven't worked with them.

    If i ask for 50%, i might get it but i might not get the other 50% unless they are honest people.

    People are not honest will say they are honest lol.

    Its a tough one.
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  • Profile picture of the author roley
    i see michael fortin asks for 100% upfront which i think is wise
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Most copywriters who ask for a 100% upfront deal are those who could afford to lose clients like you (generic). In other words they are looking for clients who 100% trust that they could deliver what they promise.
      Originally Posted by roley View Post

      i see michael fortin asks for 100% upfront which i think is wise
      You and I are talking about two different types of copywriters, Ray. If Michel Fortin agreed to write my copy for 100% upfront, I wouldn't blink.

      If roley asked me for 100% upfront, unless there's some seriously compelling proof hidden behind the faceless avatar, it ain't gonna happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author bad golfer
    http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...e-clients.html
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  • Profile picture of the author yoangov
    I have done several consulting jobs for general internet marketing and website optimization.

    At the beginning I asked for 50% upfront, and it resulted in 2 clients running away, and never paid the other 50%. It really depends on who you are selling to. If it's a fellow member of this community (trusted, good amount of posts), then I guess it's OK to ask for 50% upfront
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    When I started copywriting for others full time, I had the pleasure of watching one of Harlan's videos... I think it was Value Based Copywriting, I can't remember.

    But he mentioned something about getting the entire fee, up front, and so that's what I did when I first started. There was no 50%, it was all or nothing.

    Now, full disclosure, I also had a very nice cushion, or "screw you" money as John Carlton called it... so it didn't matter one bit if a client balked at paying the full fee. I just didn't accept them as a client.

    And it wasn't cheap, either, we're talking $3,000 to $5,000 up front for a simple sales letter. But again, I was pretty well known in the niche I started writing in (fitness) so I had a track record to refer people to.

    If you're new and not known, you may have to go the 50% up front and 50% upon delivery.

    Here's a tip that saved a lot of my copy students.

    I tell them if they do 50% up front for a client, they don't send the work until they get the other 50%.

    Yes, I have them send PROOF that the work is done. After all, that's what the client is worried about as well, not getting the work done.

    So, I had my copy students send over proof that the letter is done, so their clients can see it. Out of 300 or so times they've done this, not a single client of theirs refused to send the other 50%.

    What they do is, they send over the letter with chunks of copy taken out, so that way they can show that the letter is done, but they don't have the entire letter until the other 50% is paid.

    This works very well, at least it does for me if I ever use it, and for students.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I aways ask for 50% upfront and in 10 years have had only one
    client ditch on me. Never heard back from him after sending the
    final copy and as far as I know never used the copy (at least
    online as far as I can tell.) Interestingly that was a referral from
    another copywriter, so I don't know if he smelled the rat and
    passed on the job to me. (I doubt this though.)

    I would say clients not paying the balance is very rare. They are
    more likely not to hire you than try to rip you off.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Coming at it from the client side... If I haven't worked with you before, there's no effing way in hell I'm giving you 100% up front.

      I'd be going into the deal fully expecting that I have a 50% chance at best that you will actually deliver (and about a 2% chance that you'll deliver when you say you will).

      My preferred terms when working with a new freelance anyone... a third up front, a third at an agreed upon milestone and a third upon final delivery (with payment made first, and then deliverables delivered).
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by perryny View Post

        Coming at it from the client side... If I haven't worked with you before, there's no effing way in hell I'm giving you 100% up front.
        Keep in mind also that the fee structure a copywriter uses is also a filtering
        process. Most copywriters who ask for a 100% upfront deal are those
        who could afford to lose clients like you (generic). In other words they are looking
        for clients who 100% trust that they could deliver what they promise.

        If a potential client even gives me a hint that s/he thinks I would rip them
        off I would refuse to do business with her/him. Trust is a big issue when
        working as a freelancer. Of course the client must protect himself but
        that shouldn't be the biggest consideration when hiring a copywriter.

        In fact, if a potential client is wondering if I would rip them off then
        that doesn't speak well of my business reputation OR maybe the
        client is nervous about investing money--most of the time it is the
        latter.

        -Ray Edwards
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        • Profile picture of the author perryny
          From an earlier post titled "Why So Few Copywriters Are Successful"

          "I know copywriters are a moody, flighty bunch - I'm one of them.

          But c'mon guys...

          If you wanna succeed in this biz you need to give it your all.

          That means meeting deadlines when you say you will (or at the very least, telling people why you'll be late...)

          Busting your butt on EVERY project to make it the absolute BEST work you can...

          And communicating with your employer to make sure you get all the help you can.

          I've seen several people half-ass things, leave projects unfinished, or just plain miss deadlines.

          Needless to say, those people don't get repeat work from me."


          My experience hiring Warriors to complete parts of my own various projects has been the same.

          Most guys are I've chosen to work with were/are awesome.

          But many flaked. And some (despite stellar feedback, testimonials and their brilliant on-line reputations) have pulled shit that still boggles my mind.

          So... as a guy who's coming to you (generic) with a significant investment of my important capital, to write copy for a project that can potentially make or break said project...

          What assurances do I have that you're not going to:
          • Miss promised deadlines
          • Not work on my project until the night before the deadline and upon delivery when I say this looks like a rush job, you tell me "Test It".
          • Or that you won't just completely flake and make me chase you for my money back?

          Copywriters and their clients are both taking a risk when getting into a new project together. I see no reason why 100% of the risk should be placed squarely on the shoulders of the client.

          Funny, as I wrote that last line, all I can think of is "how can a copywriter sell himself using no risk reversal whatsoever?"
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  • Profile picture of the author ThePromotionalGuy
    I've always been one of those businessmen who goes against the industry standards. I say screw that. This is your business. Do what works for you and allows you to sleep well at night.

    I think of copywriting as custom made products. So instead of 50% down like you would for a contractor or tradesmen, the client is required to put 63%, 67% or 69% down.

    Sounds odd I know but for some reason clients don't complain. This allows for those who might skip, and my loss is minimal.

    The other area of business to protect yourself and your business is in your contracts make sure it is stated that a lien will be filed against the person and company if the balance isn't paid in full.

    You will have to check with a contract attorney in your jurisdiction for any and all legal matters in regards to liens and promissory notes.

    Most won't take this route but not me. I'm all business and I've only had to enforce my legal business rights less than 5 times in 20+ years. Those that thought they were exempt paid handsomely once the courts get involved.

    That's my spin take it or leave it I'm still getting paid.
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    • Profile picture of the author roley
      Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

      I've always been one of those businessmen who goes against the industry standards. I say screw that. This is your business. Do what works for you and allows you to sleep well at night.

      I think of copywriting as custom made products. So instead of 50% down like you would for a contractor or tradesmen, the client is required to put 63%, 67% or 69% down.

      Sounds odd I know but for some reason clients don't complain. This allows for those who might skip, and my loss is minimal.

      The other area of business to protect yourself and your business is in your contracts make sure it is stated that a lien will be filed against the person and company if the balance isn't paid in full.

      You will have to check with a contract attorney in your jurisdiction for any and all legal matters in regards to liens and promissory notes.

      Most won't take this route but not me. I'm all business and I've only had to enforce my legal business rights less than 5 times in 20+ years. Those that thought they were exempt paid handsomely once the courts get involved.

      That's my spin take it or leave it I'm still getting paid.
      I like that idea combined with what shawn said.

      So 60% upfront or whatever you deem would be ok if you had to take a hit.
      40% upon proof that the work is complete ( showing bits of it ) or even a small version of it ( graphic guys do that ) it's locked, small but readable but not usable unless you have the real thing.

      If you have worked with them before, just 50% upfront or whatever.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    You will almost certainly get ripped off if you don't get
    paid 100% of the fee prior to delivering the finished copy.

    You will not get ripped off every time, but you will
    get ripped off for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
    It all depends on many things. Reputation, positioning and due diligence on who they're hiring.

    I've had people pay me 100% up front. I've had people pay me 50% up front and the other upon completion.

    However, I will not send them the completed sales letter until the money is in my account and then I will hit the send button.

    But, you're always going to have that dipshit that's predetermined they're going to get screwed over. And really they're not worth the time when you can be working with people with money.


    Bill


    .
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