Interview with Bob Bly: How New Copywriters Can Land Clients

26 replies
Bob Bly and I discuss:
  • What 'bait' you can use to attract potential clients, and how to get traffic to it
  • How to make sure your first clients can afford a $1000 or more sales letter
  • What can cub writers do to remove hesitation in the buying process?

Click here to listen (no opt-in)
#bly #bob #clients #copywriters #interview #land
  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Another nice score, Jason. Great job.

    Thanks for doing the call and sharing it with everyone.
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  • Good man Jason

    Great share!!
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    For 12 ways to sell more stuff to more people today...go to...www.peterbrennan.net
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeStalin
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      Today, there are far more inspiring and useful "guru" teachers. It's OK to admire Bob's achievements, but he made his reputation when the marketing, networking and online worlds were far different than they are now.
      Great opportunity for a copywriter teacher to position himself/herself as the one who teaches
      what's working now to get clients, rather than what used to work when the field was less competitive.

      Best,
      Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      I listened through it. Frankly, I expected better from Bob. It's OK to admire Bob's achievements, but he made his reputation when the marketing, networking and online worlds were far different than they are now.

      His tips in the interview amounted to: use content marketing (uses Michael Stelzner for an example); use press release sites for publicity (filled with spam); send a mailed press release to magazines; join groups who have potential clients; networking; BNI.

      In other words, the same warmed-over, weak tactics that everyone else preaches - the inbound thing combined with hoping and praying you get someone's attention; and networking, which anyone who is decent at it already does. Absolutely nothing about prospecting or contacting businesses directly.

      He did have good tips about identifying the most likely buyers of higher priced services and I agree with his breakdown of buyers. He had a good tip about an "assurance" to use with copy services. And he acknowledges that copywriting is now competitive.

      What irritates me is when gurus point to "first mover" stories like Stelzner's, or reference tactics that worked 5 or 10 years ago (or longer) when things like press release sites were fresh avenues, and act like these stories are representative of how everyone should bootstrap up now. For cryin' out loud, Bob talked in the interview about sending press releases to magazines.

      Sic: I've written that "buzz piece" that's supposed to be a tour de force of my specialty. Maybe I suck and it's a boring pile of crap. I have 300 downloads and not, one, frigging single inbound email or other contact has resulted from it. I've worked the inbound schtick for years. It's a pile of crap.

      The hard fact I've decided on: nobody but nobody wants to read content marketing promoting a nobody like me. Not even my own friends.

      Bob does not have good tips for nobodies.I personally believe that a nobody should go after individual businesses, promote himself each one, prospect a lot, and make a lot of one on one introductions.

      I believe the gurus forget about how it was starting out or having a dead schedule.
      Well, why don't YOU call him up, YOU interview him, YOU edit it and YOU share it for free?

      Then you'll get answers to the questions you have.

      This interview came out of Bob's blog post against prospecting calls. So I wanted to know what he recommended instead. No point in arguing with him about effectiveness or ineffectiveness of calling.

      A post like yours devalues the time and effort I put in to get this interview.

      Hardly anyone on this forum shares the content I do. Finding someone else's interview and linking to it is nothing like doing this.

      As for magazines, people still read them. Older, more mature, experienced people. I spoke with Glenn Osborn, NLP copywriter, two years ago now--

      and I want to break this out: he told me NO ONE ELSE had ever called him from WF, and he gave me well over an hour of his time and expertise

      --and he recommended a strategy called "surfacing in the middle of the fleet." Comes from a german sub captain who sunk more tonnage in less time than any other. While is fellow captains slunk around the perimeter of the enemy convoy, running into destroyer patrols, he went under and popped up in the middle. No defense. Bang bang bang. Merchant ships all sunk.

      IE. get an article published in a trade magazine your target market reads. Instant authority.

      Could be a guest post on an authority blog, too. Things do work across technologies.

      Maybe the call to action in your report needs improvement. Send it to me and I'll give you my feedback. (I see this a lot: "It didn't work for me, so it doesn't work at all." Well, I do things and they don't work. Facebook marketing was a huge flop for me. Does that mean it doesn't work? No. It means the way I went about it--right before they released advanced targeting--didn't work.)

      And as long as you keep thinking of yourself as a 'nobody', you'll keep getting those results. Do you have something of value to share with others? Do you truly believe you can get results? Then it's your DUTY to get in front of people you can help.

      When my schedule gets slow, which it does all too frequently, what do I do? Get marketing, prospecting, promoting...talking to new people.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      I listened through it. Frankly, I expected better from Bob. It's OK to admire Bob's achievements, but he made his reputation when the marketing, networking and online worlds were far different than they are now.
      Have you read his book: "World's Best Kept Copywriting Secrets"?

      It seems you haven't so you're just belittling him as someone who's "not good enough" according to your standards. He has 35 years of copywriting work experience which says it all. His work is exemplary & if you're a professional copywriter, obviously you WILL respect his achievements because he went out to work with clients when there were none like him & did things that no one could think OF. He did not have such kind of support & training that we have today. He made it step by step & I salute him for the same. Is THIS A SMALL FEAT?

      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      His tips in the interview amounted to: use content marketing (uses Michael Stelzner for an example); use press release sites for publicity (filled with spam); send a mailed press release to magazines; join groups who have potential clients; networking; BNI.
      Content marketing is the buzz word today, why? Because it helps you to demonstrate what you know & do DIFFERENT THAN THE REST to expand what others want in their lives.

      Believe me, a lot of people actually get a whole load of contracts - some even get million dollar contracts - because they use content marketing. You can use slideshare or scribd to get clients. It's a clean & neat way to prove yourself as an authority copywriter.

      PR is the best way to be publicized fast & Bob recommended PRweb in the interview. Differentiate between spam & PRweb, will you?

      You know, sending a mailed press release to magazines can actually result in a whole lot of business because they have a whole lot of advertisers who would like to place an ad in their magazine.

      You're talking about joining groups - of course it's a great way because you become well-known as a professional by posting your inputs. I've seen him posting on LinkedIn regularly & he does it every time whenever he gets a chance.

      Bob gets clients even today using networking on LinkedIn so do I have got inquiries in the past using the same medium. In fact, I have got clients from facebook & twitter in the past because I knew how to sell. Bob does all of this & more to get clients using LinkedIn -- I think he said he doesn't get clients from facebook, twitter, etc. He teaches stuff only what he preaches. I swear by his expertise.

      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      In other words, the same warmed-over, weak tactics that everyone else preaches - the inbound thing combined with hoping and praying you get someone's attention; and networking, which anyone who is decent at it already does. Absolutely nothing about prospecting or contacting businesses directly.
      Well, you attract clients - you don't chase clients. Everyone cannot be your client. Plus these aren't weak tactics -- these are well-proven to work time & again. If it doesn't work for you really doesn't define any other new copywriter's success rate. I beg to disagree with you totally. You got to position yourself STRONG - that's how your tactics become strong.

      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      He did have good tips about identifying the most likely buyers of higher priced services and I agree with his breakdown of buyers. He had a good tip about an "assurance" to use with copy services. And he acknowledges that copywriting is now competitive.
      Thankfully, you appreciate something of him.

      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      What irritates me is when gurus point to "first mover" stories like Stelzner's, or reference tactics that worked 5 or 10 years ago (or longer) when things like press release sites were fresh avenues, and act like these stories are representative of how everyone should bootstrap up now. For cryin' out loud, Bob talked in the interview about sending press releases to magazines.

      Sic: I've written that "buzz piece" that's supposed to be a tour de force of my specialty. Maybe I suck and it's a boring pile of crap. I have 300 downloads and not, one, frigging single inbound email or other contact has resulted from it. I've worked the inbound schtick for years. It's a pile of crap.
      Maybe your offer sucked or maybe there could have some other factor which did not resulted in a sale for you but that doesn't necessarily mean that Bob is wrong in saying what works for him won't work for you if you know how to do it right.

      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      The hard fact I've decided on: nobody but nobody wants to read content marketing promoting a nobody like me. Not even my own friends.
      Content marketing is less about marketing & more about the context of the content to prove your authority status in your respective field. You really don't have to promote your own self here. Your content will speak a lot for you. Did you hear the audio well? I doubt. He gives an example of a whitepaper written by Michael about whitepapers. The quality of content itself positions you as THE "professional writer" in your specialization.

      What you're expecting a "shortcut" -- something that will make you money instantly -- like a shiny object or a golden egg or something like a magic golden bullet that you can bite. You're living in a fantasy -- come down to earth & face the reality to see that there's NO magic golden bullet that will make you a million dollars in no time -- something like a get-rich-real-quick-lottery kind of fantasy.

      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      Bob does not have good tips for nobodies.I personally believe that a nobody should go after individual businesses, promote himself each one, prospect a lot, and make a lot of one on one introductions.
      Bob said very aptly that you got to target Fortune 1000 companies, direct marketers & agencies alike who can afford to pay such money. Individuals can't afford to pay $1000-$25000 for a sales letter.

      Secondly ...

      Copywriting isn't for nobody's. If you're a nobody copywriter, no one would want to work with you because if you can't sell yourself well enough - you can't SELL your customers offers, products & ideas to his/her customers.

      A copywriter is a salesman first, writer second. It looks like you're bad at selling.

      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      I believe the gurus forget about how it was starting out or having a dead schedule.
      You forget to follow through on what they say & then you keep whining about what doesn't work when you should be working on what really does work. Bob has done us copywriters a favor & we should be grateful for the same but you're being ungrateful for the simplest reason that you didn't "like" what Bob said because of your prejudiced beliefs against certain methods of getting clients.

      See, at one point while listening to the interview Bob said "It's NOT THE way but 1 way to get clients." Plus he mentioned "PRweb" to do a press release blast which is way different than what you have said.

      It's not what medium you use but it's how you market your services & implement your marketing strategy, to be honest, that results in MORE business.

      I can bet you're not good at selling that's exactly why you're not satisfied with this interview. I'll tell you that you can even screw up things that others are good at, doesn't really mean what you find does not work is gospel truth. Many new copywriters reading this thread may get discouraged by what you're saying & hence I felt extremely sad that your discussion took it to whining about Bob having an "under-achiever" status which is completely false.

      Joe, I think you missed out on a lot of GREAT ideas I guess. I am just being well-meaning & clarifying by saying that you got to make a shift in your perception. Rome was not built in a day nor success is achieved in a day by banging your head for shortcuts. The more you crave for shortcuts, the less you'll be successful. There is no such thing as shortcut to success -- all those who promise you'll get rich in no time are just looking to rip you off by taking away all your money.

      Problem with most marketers is that they whine when others work towards achieving their goal. I was one of them in the past but I'd a reality check. You got to stick your butt out if you really want to make the money you want so desperately. I don't mean to be mean with you but I really think you got to improve on your goals & improvise on the methods which you use to get leads, sales & profits. I have succeeded from getting business because I am natural at selling. Persuasion, psychology, marketing, selling & promotion come naturally to me - that's what I am naturally gifted at. If you think you're, stop whining & get to work.

      Jason, I'm deeply grateful & blessed that you took up this initiative with Bob to get answers to our questions, especially mine. It was wonderful of you to do so & record the interview while posting it out without an opt-in. Sure, you're awesome Jason! I thank you for doing this & this interview has surely changed my life in terms the amount of financial security & independence it will generate for me, my family, my siblings, my friends, my relatives, my well-wishers, society, my teachers & many many many well-meaning people.

      PS. Joe, it's just a piece of advice -- Not an argument. Take it or leave it at that. Best of luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author roley
      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      I listened through it. Frankly, I expected better from Bob. It's OK to admire Bob's achievements, but he made his reputation when the marketing, networking and online worlds were far different than they are now.

      His tips in the interview amounted to: use content marketing (uses Michael Stelzner for an example); use press release sites for publicity (filled with spam); send a mailed press release to magazines; join groups who have potential clients; networking; BNI.

      In other words, the same warmed-over, weak tactics that everyone else preaches - the inbound thing combined with hoping and praying you get someone's attention; and networking, which anyone who is decent at it already does. Absolutely nothing about prospecting or contacting businesses directly.

      He did have good tips about identifying the most likely buyers of higher priced services and I agree with his breakdown of buyers. He had a good tip about an "assurance" to use with copy services. And he acknowledges that copywriting is now competitive.

      What irritates me is when gurus point to "first mover" stories like Stelzner's, or reference tactics that worked 5 or 10 years ago (or longer) when things like press release sites were fresh avenues, and act like these stories are representative of how everyone should bootstrap up now. For cryin' out loud, Bob talked in the interview about sending press releases to magazines.

      Sic: I've written that "buzz piece" that's supposed to be a tour de force of my specialty. Maybe I suck and it's a boring pile of crap. I have 300 downloads and not, one, frigging single inbound email or other contact has resulted from it. I've worked the inbound schtick for years. It's a pile of crap.

      The hard fact I've decided on: nobody but nobody wants to read content marketing promoting a nobody like me. Not even my own friends.

      Bob does not have good tips for nobodies.I personally believe that a nobody should go after individual businesses, promote himself each one, prospect a lot, and make a lot of one on one introductions.

      I believe the gurus forget about how it was starting out or having a dead schedule.
      Well what the heck did you expect him to say????

      I can't believe that people are so naive enough to think that there is some MAGICAL way to get clients.

      It all boils down to

      1. Using your copywriting skills to contact businesses with a great offer ( pick up a yellow pages to start, use the net ) this way you can actually DEMONSTRATE your ability to get people to take action

      2. Using free and paid advertising

      3. Networking/social sites

      END OF STORY. There is no backdoor or building down the road that has a sign that says "CLIENTS WHO ARE HIDING FROM COPYWRITERS"

      DO what all businesses do, get off your ass and go find them
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeStalin
    Jason, you did an excellent job with the interview. Cool off and please don't take my remarks personally. My remarks were certainly not intended to devalue the time and prep you spent on this. The topics went where Bob wanted to go with them.

    If anything, my remarks probably stung "by proxy" because you know there is some truth to what I said. Otherwise I could be readily discounted as yet another troll.

    The big disconnect I see in this interview is that Bob has posted about content marketing and blogging being a waste of effort and money.

    http://bly.com/blog/general/the-awfu...ent-marketing/

    Yet he's advocating content marketing in this interview.

    I didn't expect that kind of insight in this format. You did an interview, not investigative reporting. Which is fine.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      Jason, you did an excellent job with the interview. Cool off and please don't take my remarks personally. My remarks were certainly not intended to devalue the time and prep you spent on this. The topics went where Bob wanted to go with them.

      If anything, my remarks probably stung "by proxy" because you know there is some truth to what I said. Otherwise I could be readily discounted as yet another troll.

      The big disconnect I see in this interview is that Bob has posted about content marketing and blogging being a waste of effort and money.

      The awful truth about content marketing - bly.com blog - bly.com direct marketing blog

      Yet he's advocating content marketing in this interview.

      I didn't expect that kind of insight in this format. You did an interview, not investigative reporting. Which is fine.
      There is no 'magic button', which unfortunately 99.9% of the people on this forum are looking for.

      The 'secret' is hard, consistent, persistent effort. You can't be a copywriter one month and an SEO guy the next. You can't do youtube marketing for a week and then switch to facebook because it's the next shiny object that's come along, and expect good results.

      I've been in the sales training space for three years and ONLY NOW am I getting consistent requests to guest blog, give feedback etc. It takes awhile to get known, but since most people are busy hopping from lilypad to lilypad, they never get anywhere.

      Everything that Bob recommended continues to work. Will ONE article 'make you'? Very, very unlikely. Does the 80/20 rule apply? Sure. 20% of the effort you make will produce 80% of the results. Question is, what's the 20%?!

      And to find that out, you have to persist.

      They don't respond to your report?

      Start collecting their phone #s. Call them up. Or just email them to follow up...what did they like? hate? take away?

      Do you have a followup email series?

      Change the cover.
      Change the title.
      Change the call to action.

      Not every week. But split test. Publishers have long known that by tearing off the cover of a 'failed' book, and putting on a new one with a new title, they can make a success of it.
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      • Profile picture of the author JoeStalin
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
          Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

          My opinion (just my opinion) is - if you're going to call them up - why even bother with the content stuff? Do the telemarketing instead. Now we've come full circle to the evil telemarketing that Bob Bly "debunked."

          The answer "do content marketing" to the question "what should a newbie or someone flatlined do to generate inquiries" is wrong headed - in my sole opinion - because one is advising someone who doesn't have a large base of clients to posture as an expert.

          My objection to the entire inbound marketing thing is this. It requires a TON of expertise, experience and knowledge to generate an audience, as well as to create content that will rivet people. That profile fits someone with a long list of past clients. It doesn't fit me yet. And I have never believed that you become an expert by just anointing yourself. But that seems to be the advice given.
          Reality is the answer to: Why will someone hire me? And it comes down to only two answers.

          1. You know a little more than your prospects. Or maybe a lot more. But a little more is all that is required.

          2. You are able to do something they don't want to do. They could do it themselves, and maybe even better than you can, but it's not their role. CEOs delegate.


          Sometimes the authority comes from the platform. Did Oprah spring into the limelight because she had a huge following? No. She got the following from the platform.

          Phoning to get feedback after they have consumed your content is quite different from calling out of the blue. They signed up for your content. They are aware you exist. They made a decision to invest their time on you. So now you call, and they have a basis to have a conversation with you. Even if they didn't like what you had to say, you still have some authority status. You can find out why they'll buy...or why they won't. That's valuable information.

          I send reports to prospects, or they download them, and we have a conversation if they're willing to after that.

          I'm getting the idea that your problem isn't in your content--it's in selling. No offense. It's a skill that nobody comes into the world with. And it's as tough as becoming a master chef.

          One of the simplest and most effective opt-in "downloads" the founder of LeadBrite talked about in a webinar is...

          ...for a straightforward infographic. One image. Easily digestible. Instantly rewarding. And now the person is on their list. I've used the tactic myself.

          Content marketing, and selling that content, does not have to be complicated. You do, however, have to give 'em what they want.

          What IS working?

          Getting in front of people.

          Making some upset. Yes. Some people won't like it. Too bad. Funny thing is, the people who are the most closed off, most resistent to talking to you, are the ones who need your help the most. People who are doing well will talk to anyone they believe is serious--because they're not threatened by anybody.

          Turning some of those people into followers--qualifying them.

          As Gary Halbert said (or something really close to it): If you don't risk offending anyone, you won't attract anyone.

          Mal will now leap in with the exact quotation.

          PS. Joe and I are cool. I'm just continuing the discussion because it might help somebody.
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        • Profile picture of the author bad golfer
          Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

          My opinion (just my opinion) is - if you're going to call them up - why even bother with the content stuff? Do the telemarketing instead. Now we've come full circle to the evil telemarketing that Bob Bly "debunked."

          The answer "do content marketing" to the question "what should a newbie or someone flatlined do to generate inquiries" is wrong headed - in my sole opinion - because one is advising someone who doesn't have a large base of clients to posture as an expert.

          My objection to the entire inbound marketing thing is this. It requires a TON of expertise, experience and knowledge to generate an audience, as well as to create content that will rivet people. That profile fits someone with a long list of past clients. It doesn't fit me yet. And I have never believed that you become an expert by just anointing yourself. But that seems to be the advice given.
          Hey, Joe, I found that a mix of inbound and outbound is the right formula. More important though, is to stick with a niche.

          Now, you may be doing that already, so this is partly for new people reading this. The power of nicheing your expertise cannot be overstated. Re-read Jay White's advice in that other thread. It's right on the money. Just get to know the problems in a niche, and communicate to the businesses in that niche that you are "one of them" and you are golden. They will give you work. A lot.

          Why? Well, I can't think of a niche that doesn't need good direct response copywriters (sales letters, etc) or marketing b2b copywriters (case studies, etc). They can't keep up with all the writing they need. Now they may not hire you right now today. But the current person will leave, or they take on a new client, or they have a new product, or there are new owners. Stay in touch with the top 100 businesses (heck, 30 if that is too much). Send them something useful every 60 days. Call to follow up. Leave a voice mail if you have to.

          Let's say your niche is venetian blind factories. The King of Venetian Blind Copywriting! Send them articles or reports on video marketing for venetian blinds, email marketing for venetian blinds, strippers for venetian blinds.

          OK, maybe not the stripper thing.

          But if you continue to establish expertise, show them you know their challenges and position yourself as a valuable partner, they WILL work with you. It's automatic. I guarantee it.

          It's impossible that you won't get business from a number of companies. Impossible. They need too much help, they have too many things to write, too much work to do. They are under the gun. They need you. Eventually, you'll become the obvious, maybe only, choice.

          Put yourself in their shoes. Your boss is breathing down your neck. The pressure is on. You have a new product line that needs marketing material. You have new partners in Chicago that are crying for a new sales letter. You have 3 blogs that haven't been updated since Bad Golfer delivered newspapers in the rain from his banana-seat bike.

          Forget that you got "no calls from downloads" of your special report or whatever. Who cares. Didn't work? Move on. Fail faster. Call them up, email them, send them a direct mail letter. Heck, just send a "letter of introduction" like writers send to editors.

          Heck, send a good one-page FLYER. Call them to follow up.

          I'm thinking B2B businesses here because that's what I do. But let's look at major mailers for direct response. Look at what Clayton Makepeace did to get started:

          "Fifth, I mailed 100 introductory letters and 100 sample kits each week. Timing was crucial. I mailed 100 introductory letters each Monday, so my prospects would get them before the samples arrived.

          And also on each Monday, I would overnight 100 sample kits so the prospects who’d received my Introductory Letter the week before would get my samples exactly when my Introductory Letter said it would – on Tuesday.

          I waited by the phone: I didn’t expect anyone to call. Surprisingly, a few did call.

          Some politely told me they had all the writers they needed at the time. I’d say, “Cool! Maybe we’ll have a chance to work together some other time.”

          Some said they liked what they saw and wanted to know more – in which case, I told them a little about myself, asked what they were looking for, requested the Care Package, and scheduled a call to discuss it all with them in a few days.

          And sixth, I made my follow-up calls RELIGIOUSLY."


          - See more at: http://www.makepeacetotalpackage.com....hKf7vph6.dpuf

          Wow! That's balls to the wall!

          And keep this is mind: In every niche, EVERY niche, they all know each other. The prospect that is not calling you back today may one day be your biggest account. And the little factory that gave you a little order could become Facebook. Yes, it happens. Treat them all the same and you WILL get known in the niche. Just keep banging and it will all come to pass.
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          • Profile picture of the author JoeStalin
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
              Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

              Yeah, I have a niche - software and tech. My person to person selling (as noted as a possibility by Jason) seriously blows.

              In like manner, thanks for this, too. I'm seeing clearly that the no telemarketing/no interruption edict is bunk.

              I'm sticking with my original thesis: Bob Bly is off the rail on this one. I've done some of what he's saying to do for several years and it's not freakin' working.
              Stop whining about what's not working for you, plan a strategy and get to work.

              Criticizing Bob Bly is not going to get you any clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Clouser
    Awesome! Thanks, Jason.
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeStalin
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    • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
      Originally Posted by JoeStalin View Post

      So how long did it take you to write that diatribe? Best of luck my ass, you jerk.

      With the last two comments in this thread, I'm outta here. This is exactly what I despise about copywriter forums - you two guys are raging egomaniacs in love with the words you spew, having to prove a point at all costs. Screw off.
      Firstly, you don't appreciate the time, money AND effort we take to put great content that will help you directly.

      Secondly, we were not mean on your face but said what we had to say in a gentle manner.

      Thirdly, we didn't mean to put a label on you saying "my ass, you jerk". We didn't tag you. We didn't define you. We just told you what you are expecting -- a shiny magic golden bullet that will give you instant success -- which is impractical & lead you to nowhere. None of us disagreed on this point.

      Fourthly, I still respect you & so do others. We perfectly understand where you're coming from & that's why we aren't getting 'personal'. You want instant success -- that's where you're coming from which is unrealistic.

      Fifth, we don't use filthy language like 'egomaniacs' for others. Those who define others are originally defining themselves well enough.

      Sixth, you fail to see our good intentions. Most importantly, you fail to read between the lines, listen to what we are saying, listen to the audio recording making your notes & implement it to test your results.

      We don't label you nor blame you for what you're feeling & doing right now -- because it's not you but it's the 'get-rich-quick' influence you're so involved in which is talking all this BS. Sometimes we were there where you are right now so no blame game on that one. Now, back to my work - you'll learn only when you WILL fail.

      Let's focus on what 'does' work - (you shiny little golden b*tch) LOL joking.

      Best Of Luck Brother Joe. Bless you. I pray to god you become wealthy enough to see the true reality everyday. Abundance & Wealth.

      Cheers!

      Ronak.
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        I was a nobody once, with no copywriting clients. I used content marketing, as presently conceived, to get going. I went after a regular column in a magazine, any business magazine. I must have approached 25 magazines and only one said yes. This was a magazine for "opportunity seekers" - a world that I took a dim view of. However, it was a yes and I did my best at it.

        I negotiated the following deal: I would contribute an 800-word column every month, and in return they would run my bio with contact information. When they had space, they would run a small display ad for me as well. Before long, I had a regular stream of clients from this gig, and what they were up to was much more interesting than I expected.

        Then with this under my belt, I was able to move on to higher quality writing venues that gave me access to a better echelon of clients.

        This was quite a long time ago, but the process is pretty much the same now, except that you may need to find a blog instead of a magazine.

        Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    As they say, if you cannot stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
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    • Profile picture of the author OutOfThisWord
      Every time I hear a potential client or anyone for that matter say they plan to use telemarketing, my response is you don't understand marketing.

      Fact is, it is not uncommon to have to make 7 phone calls per prospect on average to any list of prospects, to simply GET to speak to someone who can o.k. a deal.

      And all along the way, most calls will end with "send me some more info."

      I've always advocated sending the info first via direct mail and then vigorously follow-up those who raise their hand and responded.

      The reason the word 'telemarketing' gets used so much is because the clueless think its cheap whereas 'direct mail costs way too much dude' (something someone told me the other day).

      Sure there are cold calling success stories and there always will be, but the best use of telemarketing is as part of a sustainable Lead Generation and Follow-up program...

      ...not as a fast way to get biz cuz you don't really understand how to market anything.

      Think of it, if you can't present your offer clearly and compellingly in an email or sales letter - how do you suddenly sprout a silver tongue when you pick up the phone.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
        Originally Posted by OutOfThisWord View Post

        Every time I hear a potential client or anyone for that matter say they plan to use telemarketing, my response is you don't understand marketing.

        Fact is, it is not uncommon to have to make 7 phone calls per prospect on average to any list of prospects, to simply GET to speak to someone who can o.k. a deal.

        And all along the way, most calls will end with "send me some more info."

        I've always advocated sending the info first via direct mail and then vigorously follow-up those who raise their hand and responded.

        The reason the word 'telemarketing' gets used so much is because the clueless think its cheap whereas 'direct mail costs way too much dude' (something someone told me the other day).

        Sure there are cold calling success stories and there always will be, but the best use of telemarketing is as part of a sustainable Lead Generation and Follow-up program...

        ...not as a fast way to get biz cuz you don't really understand how to market anything.

        Think of it, if you can't present your offer clearly and compellingly in an email or sales letter - how do you suddenly sprout a silver tongue when you pick up the phone.
        Phone and writing sales skill sets are somewhat similar, but not identical.

        Learning either takes time. I happen to do both.

        Everything you said was your opinion.

        How did I book this interview? I called Bob.
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  • Profile picture of the author wrcato2
    Fantastic job Jason... Love Bob "the copy guy" Bly. He has all of those tips plus much more in his book "How to make $100,000 as a freelance writer".
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    Absolutely spot-on, solid gold advice in this thread.

    Jason, you have more patience with "whiny" posters, than any hundred people I know of.
    I don't know how you're able to tolerate it, but my hats off to ya. Great job snaggin' the interview with Bob. He's still at the top of his game.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    "It happens out in vegas happens in moline
    On the blue blood streets of boston
    Up in berkeley and out in queens
    And it went on yesterday and it's going on tonight..."

    From the 14 year old that just discovered copywriting...to the housewife with 4 kids that just bought the latest "Get Rich With Copywriting" course...they're ready to help business owners make a fortune and get unlimited customers.

    But there's one burning question.


    You: Hey, how do I get clients.

    Me: What can you do for your clients?

    You: I want to help them make lots of money by getting new customers.

    Me: ?????? How can you get them lots of money and new customers if you can't even do it for yourself?

    You: $#@! you. I want to use their money to practice on.


    You already have the worlds best client, you.

    Quit trying to practice with other peoples money.

    Get your own product and make it a success. Once you can do for YOU what you say you can do for them, you'll have clients knocking at all hours of the day.

    Now that we've got that question solved...
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    • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      "It happens out in vegas happens in moline
      On the blue blood streets of boston
      Up in berkeley and out in queens
      And it went on yesterday and it's going on tonight..."

      From the 14 year old that just discovered copywriting...to the housewife with 4 kids that just bought the latest "Get Rich With Copywriting" course...they're ready to help business owners make a fortune and get unlimited customers.

      But there's one burning question.


      You: Hey, how do I get clients.

      Me: What can you do for your clients?

      You: I want to help them make lots of money by getting new customers.

      Me: ?????? How can you get them lots of money and new customers if you can't even do it for yourself?

      You: $#@! you. I want to use their money to practice on.


      You already have the worlds best client, you.

      Quit trying to practice with other peoples money.

      Get your own product and make it a success. Once you can do for YOU what you say you can do for them, you'll have clients knocking at all hours of the day.

      Now that we've got that question solved...
      Spot On!

      It's very risky to work on clients money because it's not affordable to fail but it's mostly not affordable for a business to lose a high paying regular client.

      Awesome tip.

      I think, this SHOULD be the norm about what you just said.
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      Are YOU Looking For THE Direct Response Kick-Ass Ninja Sales Copywriter?

      Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
      Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
      I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
      *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
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  • Great interview. Thanks Jason.
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  • Profile picture of the author focusedlife
    Dude - just saw this thread. Very, very, cool!

    Sorry to dredge up the shitty past, but glad I found this score.

    Jason Kanigan - glad he's my bud!

    Regards

    Los
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    Want me to write stuff for you? → Click here to check this out
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