Which Sales Page Do You Like Better?

by MaksP
25 replies
Hey whats up fellow warriors.

I have just gotten into this forum 6 months ago and learned a lot.

So before I start I just want to say thank you.

Thank you in advance.
#page #sales
  • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
    The 2nd one is world's better than the first in just about every way.

    Sorry man, I know the first is yours but it is what it is. Take note of their excellent use of proof elements and just how well they know their market. I didn't read the whole thing but a quick skim-through makes it pretty clear they know what they're doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author MaksP
      Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

      The 2nd one is world's better than the first in just about every way.

      Sorry man, I know the first is yours but it is what it is. Take note of their excellent use of proof elements and just how well they know their market. I didn't read the whole thing but a quick skim-through makes it pretty clear they know what they're doing.
      No need to apologize I appreciate the constructive criticism

      I am thinking of adding more proof like facebook messages/youtube comments and maybe cell phone emails.

      But where do you think I should add the proofs to my page without making it look unorganized?
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert_Rand
    The 2nd one. It's not about like, it's just better. A lot better. They get their market. Your headline is "Go from NOTHING..." But your target market isn't at "nothing" - they've been trying to dunk, trying to dunk... TRYING TO DUNK!!!!!!!!

    But just can't quite get there.

    Vert Shock enters that conversation the prospect is already having with themselves... "Finally, Dunk Like A Total Badass..." And they're positioning is much stronger. Proof elements galore... All leading to a system that encompasses a lot more than just an ebook.

    Your product name is Vertical Jump Truth... ok... but you're not referencing it in any way in your hook or header. So it just seems disjointed and kind of random - like just another product. And you need better graphics... Plus a lot more beyond that

    But keep at it, you'll get there...
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    • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
      Second one's better, obviously.

      I think you're making the mistake of trying to educate right away. Don't try to educate. Get them fired up first about finally being able to dunk for the first time. Get them FIRED UP.

      You really need to hit on all the benifits that will come along with being able to dunk, respect from other teammates, attention from women, prospects of being recruited, possibly going pro, money from endorsements, fame, admiration, etc. Being able to dunk is great and all, but what's really going to matter to guys are what comes along with the skill of being able to do it.

      You need video of yourself dunking bro. Guys are gonna want to see if YOU can dunk. They're not always just going to take your word for it. Start your video off that way and then go into your story about how you started. Personally I think a product like this would be better off with a full blown VSL with load and loads of video proof scattered throughout of you and your students. They don't believe that they'll ever be able to dunk, you have to show them and put those images in their head so that they believe just maybe they can do it and you're the guy that can show them.
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      • Profile picture of the author MaksP
        Originally Posted by Sean Fry View Post

        Second one's better, obviously.

        I think you're making the mistake of trying to educate right away. Don't try to educate. Get them fired up first about finally being able to dunk for the first time. Get them FIRED UP.

        You really need to hit on all the benifits that will come along with being able to dunk, respect from other teammates, attention from women, prospects of being recruited, possibly going pro, money from endorsements, fame, admiration, etc. Being able to dunk is great and all, but what's really going to matter to guys are what comes along with the skill of being able to do it.

        You need video of yourself dunking bro. Guys are gonna want to see if YOU can dunk. They're not always just going to take your word for it. Start your video off that way and then go into your story about how you started. Personally I think a product like this would be better off with a full blown VSL with load and loads of video proof scattered throughout of you and your students. They don't believe that they'll ever be able to dunk, you have to show them and put those images in their head so that they believe just maybe they can do it and you're the guy that can show them.
        Thank you.

        Where would you advice to add more testimonials?

        In which section?

        I have myself going from nothing to dunking at the 1:18 mark of the video.

        Would you advice making the video a little longer and telling a short story of how I went from being cut to because of my jumping ability to making the basketball team after jumping higher?

        Would you also add another section that says benefits and add green plus sign to each one?
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        • Profile picture of the author Mario Castelli
          MaksP The Truth (like your YouTube videos btw),

          You can't be looking for where to "add" certain elements to your sales letter. That's like putting a paint job on a car with an engine that doesn't even run.

          You need to BUILD your sales letter AROUND those elements.

          The one you have now is broken.

          Right now, the other guys are kicking your ass.

          You're talking about "increasing your vertical leap," they're talking about throwing it down to the roar of the crowd. It's the difference between playing 7th grade intramurals and starting for the Lakers.

          You have to stop being so clinical and get into what jumping higher MEANS to them. Because vertical leap by itself means nothing. They aren't training for the NFL combine... they just want to start putting their opponents on posters.

          You have opportunity here, though.

          Here's a hint: People who want to dunk are mostly going to be people who CAN'T dunk despite trying for years. They're going to be skeptical.

          So the other site showing me a pic of a guy who's towering over Kobe... doesn't really do anything for me. Oh, that guy can dunk? No shit.

          What about people my height?

          Then on your page, you show people shorter than me throwing it down.

          That's what I want to see.

          But if I were a customer, I'd never even get to that point because your whole lead-in does nothing to engage me.

          I don't want to be thanked for watching your video. I don't want to freakin' "train with you." I just want to POSTERIZE people who are better than me. I want people to show up at my games with judges' scorecards... because they KNOW I'm gonna throw it down.

          Show me how to make that happen, or I'm gone.
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          • Profile picture of the author MaksP
            Originally Posted by Mario Castelli View Post

            MaksP The Truth (like your YouTube videos btw),

            You can't be looking for where to "add" certain elements to your sales letter. That's like putting a paint job on a car with an engine that doesn't even run.

            You need to BUILD your sales letter AROUND those elements.

            The one you have now is broken.

            Right now, the other guys are kicking your ass.

            You're talking about "increasing your vertical leap," they're talking about throwing it down to the roar of the crowd. It's the difference between playing 7th grade intramurals and starting for the Lakers.

            You have to stop being so clinical and get into what jumping higher MEANS to them. Because vertical leap by itself means nothing. They aren't training for the NFL combine... they just want to start putting their opponents on posters.

            You have opportunity here, though.

            Here's a hint: People who want to dunk are mostly going to be people who CAN'T dunk despite trying for years. They're going to be skeptical.

            So the other site showing me a pic of a guy who's towering over Kobe... doesn't really do anything for me. Oh, that guy can dunk? No shit.

            What about people my height?

            Then on your page, you show people shorter than me throwing it down.

            That's what I want to see.

            But if I were a customer, I'd never even get to that point because your whole lead-in does nothing to engage me.

            I don't want to be thanked for watching your video. I don't want to freakin' "train with you." I just want to POSTERIZE people who are better than me. I want people to show up at my games with judges' scorecards... because they KNOW I'm gonna throw it down.

            Show me how to make that happen, or I'm gone.
            Thanks for watching my youtube videos.
            I appreciate you having the time to check out my channel.

            Very good points.

            So I will work on my title, make it flow better and add more emotional aspect to the page as well as the benefits.

            I honestly know that my program is the best on the market. Meaning that everyone who used it has seen results. My program uses scientifically proven methods. I myself put years into trial and error to come up with the best program.

            Now I have to find a way to market it so people will get the best product at the best price.
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        • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
          Originally Posted by MaksP View Post

          Thank you.

          Where would you advice to add more testimonials?

          In which section?

          I have myself going from nothing to dunking at the 1:18 mark of the video.

          Would you advice making the video a little longer and telling a short story of how I went from being cut to because of my jumping ability to making the basketball team after jumping higher?

          Would you also add another section that says benefits and add green plus sign to each one?
          Ah, sorry. Didn't realize that was you at 1:18, you need to make that more clear, perhaps with text "Me at 8 weeks" or something.

          It's more than just where to add testimonials or adding a section for benefits listed next to a green plus sign like the other offer did.

          You did a pretty good job at putting your page together, you actually are doing a lot of things right. You're following the very basic formula of "Here's what I got, here's what it can do for you, here's what I want you to do next" so nice job there.

          I think you should work with a copywriter who knows the market and can put together an awesome VSL for you (in my opinion a product like this needs a VSL). I believe you probably do have a great program if not the best program for this niche, and with the right sales page you can kick some serious ass.

          Max5ty -- it's super easy for any teenager to get a prepaid credit card at any grocery store. If they want to improve their hops bad enough, they'll find a way.
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    • Profile picture of the author MaksP
      Originally Posted by Robert_Rand View Post

      The 2nd one. It's not about like, it's just better. A lot better. They get their market. Your headline is "Go from NOTHING..." But your target market isn't at "nothing" - they've been trying to dunk, trying to dunk... TRYING TO DUNK!!!!!!!!

      But just can't quite get there.

      Vert Shock enters that conversation the prospect is already having with themselves... "Finally, Dunk Like A Total Badass..." And they're positioning is much stronger. Proof elements galore... All leading to a system that encompasses a lot more than just an ebook.

      Your product name is Vertical Jump Truth... ok... but you're not referencing it in any way in your hook or header. So it just seems disjointed and kind of random - like just another product. And you need better graphics... Plus a lot more beyond that

      But keep at it, you'll get there...
      Thank you.

      I will work on the title again and try to make it flow better.

      So add more testimonials as mentioned previously.

      But in which spot would you advise to add testimonials?
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Who cares which site is better?

    If you threw Google in as a third choice, most would probably pick that.

    Who wants to dunk a basketball? Dunno, maybe dudes in high school.

    College guys usually get there because they already know how.

    So here you are, broke. Who in your target audience has a charge card to pay for your stuff, or even wants to? You talk about all these hits to your youtube site...don't you realize they're all looking for free stuff? It's an internet thing. Huge hits to a site doesn't mean they're looking to buy anything.

    Your target audience gets almost everything they want off the internet for free. Here you come with a secret to dunking, and you want money for it...gasp. You just lost most of your target customers.

    You could come at it from another angle and maybe make some cash...but what you have now isn't gonna make bank.

    I have no doubt you'll be back in a couple months looking for more advice.
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    • Profile picture of the author MaksP
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Who cares which site is better?

      If you threw Google in as a third choice, most would probably pick that.

      Who wants to dunk a basketball? Dunno, maybe dudes in high school.

      College guys usually get there because they already know how.

      So here you are, broke. Who in your target audience has a charge card to pay for your stuff, or even wants to? You talk about all these hits to your youtube site...don't you realize they're all looking for free stuff? It's an internet thing. Huge hits to a site doesn't mean they're looking to buy anything.

      Your target audience gets almost everything they want off the internet for free. Here you come with a secret to dunking, and you want money for it...gasp. You just lost most of your target customers.

      You could come at it from another angle and maybe make some cash...but what you have now isn't gonna make bank.

      I have no doubt you'll be back in a couple months looking for more advice.
      Thank you for your comment
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      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
        Originally Posted by MaksP View Post

        Thank you for your comment
        Well MaksP, when you come on a forum and ask for advice, hopefully you realize what you may consider progress, some may consider a bust.

        If say $1000 a week to you seems like a good thing...to some it would create cause for concern into what was going wrong, and they'd take a look at their marketing and implement new strategies.

        That's the whole issue with giving a critique on the forum.

        What I consider successful and what you consider successful are probably worlds apart.

        However...

        doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Just means you're not ready to step up to the level I'm at with my critique.

        Good luck with your site.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Who cares which site is better?

      If you threw Google in as a third choice, most would probably pick that.

      Who wants to dunk a basketball? Dunno, maybe dudes in high school.

      College guys usually get there because they already know how.

      So here you are, broke. Who in your target audience has a charge card to pay for your stuff, or even wants to? You talk about all these hits to your youtube site...don't you realize they're all looking for free stuff? It's an internet thing. Huge hits to a site doesn't mean they're looking to buy anything.

      Your target audience gets almost everything they want off the internet for free. Here you come with a secret to dunking, and you want money for it...gasp. You just lost most of your target customers.

      You could come at it from another angle and maybe make some cash...but what you have now isn't gonna make bank.

      I have no doubt you'll be back in a couple months looking for more advice.
      I think you're off-base with this one, man.

      I know for fact that the market he's in spends millions annually looking to improve their jump height. It's a 100% verified buyer's market.

      The problem with his offer isn't the market or his actual product; it's that he either doesn't know his potential customers well enough or (more likely) doesn't yet have the skill to target them correctly.

      Luckily, the latter is something he can improve on if he puts the time and work in (or better yet, hires a skilled copywriter who knows the market just like his competitor clearly did).
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      • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
        Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

        I think you're off-base with this one, man.

        I know for fact that the market he's in spends millions annually looking to improve their jump height. It's a 100% verified buyer's market.

        The problem with his offer isn't the market or his actual product; it's that he either doesn't know his potential customers well enough or (more likely) doesn't yet have the skill to target them correctly.

        Luckily, the latter is something he can improve on if he puts the time and work in (or better yet, hires a skilled copywriter who knows the market just like his competitor clearly did).
        Max5ty... I know exactly what you're saying.

        You'd be amazed how many people used to tell me that I'd never get anywhere selling workout programs online... because you could get them everywhere for free. Not to mention from old muscle mags.

        But for about 5 straight years, I sold $10,000 a week worth of them.
        So I'm glad I didn't listen to them.

        But I'm with Luke on this one.

        I worked with 2 clients who do very well in the Vertical jump market. It's been years since I've worked with them, but at the time, they were doing amazingly well.

        Jacob Hiller, who I worked with back in 2010 on a separate project... was selling $75,000 per month worth of his vertical jump program. ESPN, Sports Illustrated, and other huge media venues contacted him about his jump program.

        And Adam Linkenauger (I think that's how he spells it) I worked with briefly in 2011 on his jumping program sales copy... and I knew at the time he had been, and has been, pretty darn successful.

        But yeah, Jacob has sold millions... but honestly, if I hadn't worked with them specifically, I wouldn't have known this niche was THAT profitable.

        After all, my vertical jump is about 5 inches.
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    MaksP- you already put years of your life into it as you say. I'd hire one of the copywriters here to help you take it over the finish line.

    If not, consider getting a critique--costs around $500 or so depending on the copywriter. Would be worth much more than that.
    Signature
    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
    - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @Cool Hand Luke, Shawnlebrun, Sean Fry

    Wouldn't be the first product I've been wrong about...

    but after reading his page, I just can't see the profit potential.

    Maybe with an experienced copywriter, I'd change my mind.

    Thanks for the feedback.
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      @Cool Hand Luke, Shawnlebrun, Sean Fry

      Wouldn't be the first product I've been wrong about...

      but after reading his page, I just can't see the profit potential.

      Maybe with an experienced copywriter, I'd change my mind.

      Thanks for the feedback.
      Max5ty, profit potential is not based upon what's on his website. It doesn't matter what HE thinks, it's what THE MARKET thinks.

      So the questions become "Is his competition spending money on advertising? Are people spending money on jump products and information?"

      And the answer is "Yes and yes."

      How do I know? Here's a quick way:

      https://www.google.com/search?num=20...94.3sJ-pbgRQlE

      Click the link.

      See the advertisers in the right hand column? Those guys wouldn't be advertising if there weren't potential customers and money to be made.

      Also, see the vertical jump products across the top?

      Again, people wouldn't be making products if someone didn't want them.

      There's also 3.8 million pages that reference "vertical jump training".

      So the answer is there is an interest and a market in what MaksP has to offer.

      - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      @Cool Hand Luke, Shawnlebrun, Sean Fry

      Wouldn't be the first product I've been wrong about...

      but after reading his page, I just can't see the profit potential.

      Maybe with an experienced copywriter, I'd change my mind.

      Thanks for the feedback.
      @Max5ty.... honestly, my friend, I would have NEVER guessed the profit potential either.

      After all, having been in the fitness niche since 2001 myself... I had never seen nor heard of anyone selling stuff in the vert jump niche.

      and I still wouldn't have believed it until I heard from Jacob Hiller how much he was making. Changed my mind real quick.

      BUT... I really see that THIS is where it's all headed online... sub-sub-sub niches.... as time goes on, things will just keep getting segmented down even further.

      When I started... there was muscle building, fat loss, weight loss.

      A few years later, I saw "get abs", niche, "fitness over 40", fat loss for women...

      Then vertical jump stuff, improving strength for golf swings, Paleo, etc...

      I just think we'll continue to niche into such specific segments... you can make a great living focusing on one tiny niche that has a need.

      Heck, if you solve a problem for someone, you can probably create a business out of it.

      Ray Edwards posted an amazing letter the other day, written by Gary B.... and it was all about olive oil.

      I mean, if there was ever a commodity product... olive oil could be it.

      But yet, they're probably selling the heck out of it.

      Another note to the OP... and I know you were just asking about feedback about which letter was better.

      And that's cool and all... coming here on this forum can get you some great feedback from a FEW great copywriters... but the main thing is, you gotta let the market tell you. Not us.

      In other words, don't ask anyone else BUT the market which letter is better. Let them judge by their wallets.

      I came on this forum many times back in 2003 and beyond, asking for advice on sales pages.

      And sure enough, my test results from running traffic usually showed the winning letter to be the one that folks on the forum had shot down.

      So, you just never know... sure asking us is good to give you some basic thoughts and ideas, but it all comes down to just testing out all your letters, and seeing which one the market likes better.

      I know that's not what you were asking, but it can save you a lot of trouble in the future... where testing EVERYTHING can often solve some questions you may be wondering about.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Maks, you've posted your link - looking for feedback a few times before. You're obviously failing to get the performance out of your copy that you want (or we wouldn't keep seeing you here.)

    My feedback? The other page is better on every possible level.

    The thing is...

    It doesn't matter.

    All you need to know is this...

    There's a better hook or angle to come for your copy. What you have written doesn't connect with prospects in a big way. You need to change that.

    Don't become attached to copy or a website. That's the kiss of death in this game.

    Do something totally different.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author MaksP
      Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

      Maks, you've posted your link - looking for feedback a few times before. You're obviously failing to get the performance out of your copy that you want (or we wouldn't keep seeing you here.)

      My feedback? The other page is better on every possible level.

      The thing is...

      It doesn't matter.

      All you need to know is this...

      There's a better hook or angle to come for your copy. What you have written doesn't connect with prospects in a big way. You need to change that.

      Don't become attached to copy or a website. That's the kiss of death in this game.

      Do something totally different.

      Mark
      Thank you for your reply.

      I post here because I have gotten AMAZING feedback and always want to get better.

      My copy is doing a lot better than expected and many probably will find the conversion rate surprising.

      I just want to be the best.

      I know I already have the best product.

      I post here because every time I pick up something different and test it.

      Every single reply i get I take into serious consideration and testing.

      Now I just want to market it even better.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
        Originally Posted by MaksP View Post

        Thank you for your reply.

        I post here because I have gotten AMAZING feedback and always want to get better.

        My copy is doing a lot better than expected and many probably will find the conversion rate surprising.

        I just want to be the best.

        I know I already have the best product.

        I post here because every time I pick up something different and test it.

        Every single reply i get I take into serious consideration and testing.

        Now I just want to market it even better.
        Awesome. Great... I'm happy you're getting conversions.

        But the problem is...

        You CAN do better. Way better.

        Try a totally different approach. Totally different hook. Totally different way of describing the product. Totally different take on the benefits.

        You've been using this campaign for a while. I think you're stuck in a box.

        And it's not enough to just think outside the box.

        You have to EXPLODE the box. Don't give yourself anything to lean on or refer to.

        I'm not saying delete your control...

        Just try to beat it.

        If you're NOT doing that, I promise your leaving lots of money on the table.

        Mark

        P.S. I'm glad you apply the stuff you learn here. But when I read your copy, I cringe. Just being honest. There's so much more you can do here.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    @Rick - I looked at the link you posted.

    Of the 20 sites on the front page, only 2 were selling something. The other 18 were giving away the info for free. Yes there were paid links as well.

    Kinda made me think of the show Shark Tank.

    5 successful business people hear a pitch. Sometimes all 5 will say they're out...sometimes 4 will and then 1 will make an offer. I've heard stories before where all 5 passed and the product went on to become a money maker.

    In this case I'd have to say in order to compete you'd need to pull out the big guns.

    I'd do an "As Seen In Sports Illustrated" thing or something. And yes you can legally use that phrase even if you haven't done display ads or had a story placed or written about you in the magazine. It can be done dirt cheap. I'll let someone see if they can figure out this marketing tip.

    @Shawn - This kinda takes me back to the post I did (that got moved) about investing in an idea.

    If it's a great idea (and I believe you) why not take over the thing and do a 50/50 split or something? Deduct the ad costs, etc.

    50% of a million dollars would be advantageous to the seller...compared to what he's working with now. $500,000.00 minus his share of ad costs? No brainer.

    Plus, if a copywriter had a few of these projects, they could clean up year round without sitting round waiting for the phone to ring.

    Now, I know someone will say it's the same concept as doing a campaign for residual profits...but that's not the idea. The idea is to focus on poor selling products and approaching them with a bailout.

    I've seen some episodes of the Profit...and it always amazes me how a business owner can be going under, and still be hard headed about their way of doing business. It's more of a protecting their baby type thing. We all know a big mistake is getting to cuddly with your work.

    Oh well, haven't really seen any copywriters marketing themselves with this approach. If they are they must be flying low on the radar.

    Thanks for the feedback.
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  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Maks, have you seen where viewers are dropping off
    in the biggest numbers?

    That stat pinpoints your video problems.

    Best,
    Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author akash47
    No doubt about it, the second one is significantly better.
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    MaksP, I don't know your product. But if I were you I'd seriously consider creating specialized products for specific sports. Basketball and volleyball come to mind. Get as targeted as you can.

    - Rick Duris
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