Why is copywriting so neglected in most ecourses

65 replies
Hi Guys
I want to know Why is copywriting so neglected in most ecourses. I have been online for a few years now and I have done quite a few courses online.

One of the things I discovered in a course I did recently was copywriting. I knew about it but I did not understand the importance of it.

Man it can make or break your efforts. Most courses stress the importance of a good headlines but just stop there.

Imagine my surprise when I looked back at my blogs, and found that most of them were crap. I am not in paralysis of analysis, I get out there and market. I just market differently now especially, now I know this one secret.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the reason copywriting is so neglected?
I am going to begin teaching it in my courses and ebooks from now on.
#copywriting #ecourses #neglected
  • Profile picture of the author wordwizard
    Good for you! You'll be adding major value to your courses!

    Why it often doesn't appear in other courses? It's a skill that involves a learning curve, and so it might be a challenge to incorporate it into a "Make money by Tuesday" type of course.

    It's also quite possible that the creators of those courses don't really know all that much about copywriting (and maybe had someone else write their sales page).

    Also, this is the world of "One problem - one solution" and adding copywriting to the mix really makes things much more complex.

    Still, the importance of well-written sales letters AND blog posts etc. should really be pointed out in EVERY course. Traffic without conversion won't lead to success, and the world's best sales letter without traffic won't either.

    They do go together, though they don't have to be taught in the same product... unless the product promises to offer a truly comprehensive solution.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnRyserson
    Banned
    Perhaps its because the product creators themselves understand so little about effective copywriting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Because copywriting is *not* sexy... Nor is it mass appeal.



    There's a hidden copywriting lesson in that very notion hehe...

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    • Profile picture of the author DeadRooster
      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

      Because copywriting is *not* sexy...
      I gotta disagree on that one. Copywriting is the SEXIEST part of marketing. In fact, it BETTER be sexy.

      The last sales page I wrote starts out with this headline:

      If you'd rather have both your eyeballs sucked out with toilet plungers than look at another crappy ebook featuring the latest online money gimmick, then you've come to the right place...

      What could be sexier than THAT.
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      • Profile picture of the author jbprich
        Originally Posted by DeadRooster View Post

        I gotta disagree on that one. Copywriting is the SEXIEST part of marketing. In fact, it BETTER be sexy.

        The last sales page I wrote starts out with this headline:

        If you'd rather have both your eyeballs sucked out with toilet plungers than look at another crappy ebook featuring the latest online money gimmick, then you've come to the right place...

        What could be sexier than THAT.
        That is awesome LOL.
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      • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
        Originally Posted by DeadRooster View Post

        The last sales page I wrote starts out with this headline:

        If you'd rather have both your eyeballs sucked out with toilet plungers than look at another crappy ebook featuring the latest online money gimmick, then you've come to the right place...

        What could be sexier than THAT.
        The toilet plungers ...
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Because as Gary Bencivenga (one of the greatest copywriters alive) says "a gifted product is mightier than a gifted pen".

          Plus, you can always hire a gifted pen. Especially if you truly have a gifted product.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Why is copywriting so neglected in most ecourses
            Ummmm...... because they assume everyone already knows how to lie?

            [Mike hurriedly ducks the wrath of all copywriters whose words "can never hurt him"] :p
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            • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
              IS it something that can be learned, Alex? I would be very interested in learning but if it has to be IN you then I would be wasting my time, as it isn't IN me that's for sure!
              It can be learned, but as someone mentioned, there is a learning curve. Some people are just natural talkers, and can talk you into buying a "rare" piece of dog turd.

              Some of the best copywriters are nothing more than con artist. They lie and deceit to get you to hand over your money, and the reason why the FTC comes down hard on I.Mer's.

              I agree with the OP that copywriting is extremely important, but it's not talked about alot,, because it's their secret sauce that sells methods that don't work.

              I think a better conversation would be " what is great copywriting and what is a con job"
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            • Profile picture of the author jbprich
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Ummmm...... because they assume everyone already knows how to lie?

              [Mike hurriedly ducks the wrath of all copywriters whose words "can never hurt him"] :p
              I love your comments in brackets.
              But I know that not all sales copy is a lie. I have found some programs that actually give you exactly as they promised.
              (tough not many)
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      • Profile picture of the author jbprich
        Originally Posted by DeadRooster View Post

        I gotta disagree on that one. Copywriting is the SEXIEST part of marketing. In fact, it BETTER be sexy.

        The last sales page I wrote starts out with this headline:

        If you'd rather have both your eyeballs sucked out with toilet plungers than look at another crappy ebook featuring the latest online money gimmick, then you've come to the right place...

        What could be sexier than THAT.
        That is soo hilarious. It would certainly grab peoples attention, that is for sure...
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  • Because it takes a lot of learning and practice to write good copy. It's not an instant process. You constantly have to experiment to figure out what works for you. and i agree with Sarevok, it's not 'sexy'.
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    Why is copywriting so neglected in most ecourses
    'Cause it ain't sexy - people just want to know how to make a ton of money in the quickest and easiest way possible.

    But yeah, totally agree with you. In fact, I cover it head on and extensively in one of my courses because like you said, it can "make or break" your efforts online.

    James Scholes
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  • Profile picture of the author Dsdomination
    Good point James. People are not yet aware of what Google wants to do. I guess is just the SEOs work to persuade clients of what a good context does on long term.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    Can anyone enlighten me as to the reason copywriting is so neglected?
    Because most people can't afford fancy copywriting. Copywriting is like a sales man, you either have it in you or you don't. Great copywriters can cost thousands, so people are forced to do their own own copy which 9 times out of ten, fails miserably

    You can have a crappy product, and good copywriting will always get sales. Everybody wants good copy, but not everybody can write or afford good copy, so they are forced to write what they can
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    • Hi Guys and Gals,

      Understanding the psychology needed to create a compelling sales message that persuades strangers from all over the world to gladly send you money on demand takes time and dedication.

      And it isn't limited to just sales letters, either. Because every communication with your prospective customers has to be created to tickle their buying gland.

      Look on this forum and compare the less than 100 folks currently in the copy writing forum with the 4,000 + in the WSO area, looking for the latest instant quick fix, and you'll understand why only about 3% ever make any serious money on line.

      I made my first sale 51 years ago and I'm still learning, which is why most programs just gloss over the most important part of any business - it's just too difficult.

      Warmest regards,

      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
      Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

      Because most people can't afford fancy copywriting. Copywriting is like a sales man, you either have it in you or you don't. Great copywriters can cost thousands, so people are forced to do their own own copy which 9 times out of ten, fails miserably

      You can have a crappy product, and good copywriting will always get sales. Everybody wants good copy, but not everybody can write or afford good copy, so they are forced to write what they can

      IS it something that can be learned, Alex? I would be very interested in learning but if it has to be IN you then I would be wasting my time, as it isn't IN me that's for sure!
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      • Profile picture of the author jbprich
        Originally Posted by Katie Rich View Post

        IS it something that can be learned, Alex? I would be very interested in learning but if it has to be IN you then I would be wasting my time, as it isn't IN me that's for sure!
        Kate Rich.
        I believe that copy is a skill that anyone who is willing can learn. Check out copyblogger, to get your feet wet in the area of copywriting. They offer some free resources. Obviously it will not cover everything that there is to learn about copywriting, but it will help us to grow as marketers, as well as help us to help others, in this area.
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  • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
    Originally Posted by jbprich View Post

    Imagine my surprise when I looked back at my blogs, and found that most of them were crap............ am going to begin teaching it in my courses and ebooks from now on.
    As a copywriter who has pulled conversion rates north of 14 percent I need to ask...if you were "shocked that your copy was crap....." Then how in the hell (or why in the hell} would you begin TEACHING copy!?

    Do yourself, and everyone else, a favor and start with learning it.
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    • Profile picture of the author jbprich
      XponentSYS

      I completely understand your concern. I was not meaning tomorrow. I realise I have a lot to learn. I am always looking to grow my skills as a marketer, and move forward, so I can give good value to my subscribers and customers.

      I would never assume to act like an expert in the field of copywriting. However I can mention the importance of copywriting, and direct them to places like copyblogger and other well known sources for more information.

      XponentSYS, Where did you learn your skills as a copywriter? I am always interested in learning to improve my current skills. Like Paul mentioned in the earlier post I am always learning.

      I just want to say thank you to everyone for your comments. Paul what is the name of the copywriting forum so I can check it out?

      Sarevok LOL I think I noticed the copy in your post well done.
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      • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
        Originally Posted by jbprich View Post

        XponentSYS

        I completely understand your concern. I was not meaning tomorrow. I realise I have a lot to learn. I am always looking to grow my skills as a marketer, and move forward, so I can give good value to my subscribers and customers.

        I would never assume to act like an expert in the field of copywriting. However I can mention the importance of copywriting, and direct them to places like copyblogger and other well known sources for more information.

        XponentSYS, Where did you learn your skills as a copywriter? I am always interested in learning to improve my current skills. Like Paul mentioned in the earlier post I am always learning.

        I just want to say thank you to everyone for your comments. Paul what is the name of the copywriting forum so I can check it out?

        Sarevok LOL I think I noticed the copy in your post well done.
        Hi,

        I feel passionately, as a coach, that qualified people teach others whatever it is they're qualified in and that's it. You see to many times in this industry, others teaching others only what they've been taught - not what they've ctually done.

        It is this practice, in part at least, that causes "tirespin".

        It is my disdain for such practice (and people) from which my strong opinion came. Sorry if I came off "heavy handed". It is not personal.

        I get what you mean now.

        As for me and how I came to be, I spent almost a decade working for and with world renouned experts to include..... Ben Altadonna, Dan Kennedy, Matt Welch and other heavy hitters. It seemed that once I got ONE... the others followed suit. One could say that in the beginning I got lucky I guess.

        Working with these people not only paid well but provided a valuable side effect that was unintended (at the time): A world-class multi-million dollar education in not only copy writing but direct response marketing and a slew of different business models (to include the "newsletter model" and "postcard model" for which I've become known).

        I still talk with these people and we are all friends. However, I've since moved on to applying my knowledge onto my OWN businesses..... and those of a small group of coaching members, family and close friends.

        So, that's how I "cut my teeth" - back in 1998 or so.
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        • Profile picture of the author jbprich
          Originally Posted by XponentSYS View Post

          Hi,

          I feel passionately, as a coach, that qualified people teach others whatever it is they're qualified in and that's it. You see to many times in this industry, others teaching others only what they've been taught - not what they've ctually done.

          It is this practice, in part at least, that causes "tirespin".

          It is my disdain for such practice (and people) from which my strong opinion came. Sorry if I came off "heavy handed". It is not personal.

          I get what you mean now.

          As for me and how I came to be, I spent almost a decade working for and with world renowned experts to include..... Ben Altadonna, Dan Kennedy, Matt Welch and other heavy hitters. It seemed that once I got ONE... the others followed suit. One could say that in the beginning I got lucky I guess.

          Working with these people not only paid well but provided a valuable side effect that was unintended (at the time): A world-class multi-million dollar education in not only copy writing but direct response marketing and a slew of different business models (to include the "newsletter model" and "postcard model" for which I've become known).

          I still talk with these people and we are all friends. However, I've since moved on to applying my knowledge onto my OWN businesses..... and those of a small group of coaching members, family and close friends.

          So, that's how I "cut my teeth" - back in 1998 or so.
          Thank you so much for your response back. It obviously takes a long time to become a competent copywriter. Your skills are one of the most important skills online. I have joined the copywriting forum here on the warriors forum. I am going to create a sales copy soon and I would really look forward to any input that you and your peers might give to guide me to success. I do not wish to take advantage of anyone on the forum, but any tips that people are willing to give will be appreciated.
          Thanks again
          Henry
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  • Profile picture of the author jbprich
    Alex I completely agree. However good copywriters like XponentSYS are worth there weight in gold... I understand why they charge so much. It is such a shame that not more people are interested in this topic. I did some niche research recently and found to my surprise, it is not an overly popular niche.

    WordWizard. Thank you for your encouragement, I truly appreciate that. You are right good copy + target traffic = conversions. Obviously that is an overly simplified summery of your comment, but the that is the basics of it. I know there is a lot more to it, like a good sales funnel, as well as a bunch more things. But the basic premise is correct. You can NOT succeed if even one of these two points are not working properly.
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  • Profile picture of the author jbprich
    Wordwizard thank you for your encouragement. You are correct that even if one of these two components of marketing is not working then you can NOT succeed.

    You are right you can have the best copy in the world and if no one sees it, it is for nothing. If you have lousy copy, and lots of traffic, your efforts are wasted. because people just won't buy what you offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author MBedford
    I think there are two main reasons behind the fact that most courses ignore copywriting.

    1. It's not sexy.
    2. It's really hard to do, let alone teach.
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  • Profile picture of the author jbprich
    Paul Hooper-Kelly.
    It is an honour to have you comment on my post. A $1.3 Million Marketer.
    I love your analogy of a buyer gland, that is awesome, Thank you. Could you please PM me the name of the copywriters forum your mentioned in your post, as I would be interested to find out more. Thanks.
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    • Originally Posted by jbprich View Post

      Paul Hooper-Kelly.
      It is an honour to have you comment on my post. A $1.3 Million Marketer.
      I love your analogy of a buyer gland, that is awesome, Thank you. Could you please PM me the name of the copywriters forum your mentioned in your post, as I would be interested to find out more. Thanks.

      Hi jbprich,

      The copy writing forum to which I refer is here, on Warriors.

      It's the eleventh one down on the Home Page.

      And I stand corrected: there are 160 folks there, right now (but compare that with the 5,500+ on the WSO section and nothing changes).

      Warmest regards,

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author jbprich
        Originally Posted by Paul Hooper-Kelly View Post

        Hi jbprich,

        The copy writing forum to which I refer is here, on Warriors.

        It's the eleventh one down on the Home Page.

        And I stand corrected: there are 160 folks there, right now (but compare that with the 5,500+ on the WSO section and nothing changes).

        Warmest regards,

        Paul
        Hi Paul Hooper-Kelly

        Thanks for that I will check it out. Do you need to be a war room member to access it? I will try. I plan on joining the War room today anyway. I think people will not begrudge you the other 60 people. LOL Thanks I will check it out today.
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  • Profile picture of the author jbprich
    Hi Guys.
    I think copywriting, if sold properly, could end up being the sexiest thing in internet marketing, if "sold properly!" If people believe it is boring then it will be boring to them. However if you sell it as the one key that will determine the difference between success and failure, then more people will want to do it. Correct me if I am wrong please. Isn't it a matter of perception in this case.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by jbprich View Post

    I think copywriting, if sold properly, could end up being the sexiest thing in internet marketing, if "sold properly!"
    I agree. But it so rarely is. Very few "IM course compilers" are qualified or competent to teach copywriting. The ones who currently try probably do more harm than good, overall.

    Originally Posted by jbprich View Post

    Can anyone enlighten me as to the reason copywriting is so neglected?
    I agree with most of what's posted above (apart from a few apparently confused observations which don't differentiate between copywriting and content-writing.)

    I think an additional reason is that for most beginning internet marketers, copywriting isn't a skill they're particularly likely to need, as well as being one of the hardest to acquire. If you express its "comparative utility quotient" in terms of usage-probability divided by learning-difficulty (which people generally don't), it surely comes fairly low down on the list of potentially beneficial skills. And I say that as a writer, myself.
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    • Profile picture of the author jbprich
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I agree. But it so rarely is. Very few "IM course compilers" are qualified or competent to teach copywriting. The ones who currently try probably do more harm than good, overall.



      I agree with most of what's posted above (apart from a few apparently confused observations which don't differentiate between copywriting and content-writing.)

      I think an additional reason is that for most beginning internet marketers, copywriting isn't a skill they're particularly likely to need, as well as being one of the hardest to acquire. If you express its "comparative utility quotient" in terms of usage-probability divided by learning-difficulty (which people generally don't), it surely comes fairly low down on the list of potentially beneficial skills. And I say that as a writer, myself.
      Hi I agree it needs to be something that is not to be taught by beginners. However if you are quantifying this to the average "affiliate marketer" that is promoting someone else's product, then you are more than likely right. But for those that wish to create products, and market them as a vendor and have other marketers promote it for them, then I believe that it should be taught as a package for those wishing to start a product of there own.
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    • Profile picture of the author Snow_Predator
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I think an additional reason is that for most beginning internet marketers, copywriting isn't a skill they're particularly likely to need, as well as being one of the hardest to acquire. If you express its "comparative utility quotient" in terms of usage-probability divided by learning-difficulty (which people generally don't), it surely comes fairly low down on the list of potentially beneficial skills. And I say that as a writer, myself.
      Copywriting is overrated. Every copywriter and copywriting book will tell you it's by far the most important skill you need in any business, but this statement is complete bs.

      I study copywriting and it has taught me a lot. The way I write now is completely changed from the way I used to write. My writing is now clearer and very simple and easy to read. The readership of my articles has improved dramatically thanks to learning some basic principles of copywriting.

      However, the success of my business is not hinged around copywriting, like most copywriters would have you believe. Most copywriters would have you believe that you need to sit down and study copywriting intensely for two years before you can even think about starting a business.

      I would say, study copywriting, it will help you, but do it on the side, something you read about regularly, but don't put all your focus on it. Put your focus on proving value, becoming an expert in your field, creating products, and learning to outsource.

      Also, when learning about copywriting, read a few good copywriting books to establish some basic principles, and then STOP. All of these multitudes of copywriting books just keep saying the same stuff over and over in different ways. Read a few good books, then spend the rest of your copywriting study-time following what great copywriters DO, rather than what they ADVISE in their books and programs. Get a hold of their salesletters, emails, and other communications, and follow how they write. Read it and absorb it, like you would a language.

      If you are learning Spanish, you might start by taking lessons, but after a certain point, the best way to progress would be to throw yourself in the middle of Spain, and to live with Spanish people, not to take more and more advanced courses.

      Also, I'd like to comment on this:

      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I agree with most of what's posted above (apart from a few apparently confused observations which don't differentiate between copywriting and content-writing.)
      Alexa is a thousand times better than me at everything in IM, but I'd just like to say that though copywriting and content-writing are indeed different, learning copywriting will make you a hell of a lot better at content-writing. Your words will flow better, you'll use more colourful and persuasive language, you'll be better able to sell your ideas, and sell your reader on taking the action you want them to take from reading your content articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I think copywriting is sexy as hell. It's also a highly specialized skill that takes years to develop. I suspect that's why it doesn't show up in most ecourses is that it's hard for the easy peasy Ninja "done for you" MMO carnival barkers (I realize they're not all barkers) to make it look easy like "instant" authority sites and solo ads with guaranteed clicks and all the rest of the ridiculous IM/MMO fruit salad.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Because most people don't understand that to sell... you need to connect with, trigger - even masturbate people's emotions.

    Effective selling depends on how well you know your ideal customer/avatar, what they're experiencing... and what they want.

    It takes clear, emotion and benefit-driven communication to prove you KNOW all of those things.

    I imagine it's frustrating to know what you want to say, but lack the ability to put it into effective words.

    I imagine.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Another reason is that detailed copywriting isn't needed for many IM methods, such as affiliate marketing and content publishing using Adsense for monetization.

    However, basic copywriting skills are a great benefit in ways that may not seem obvious, especially writing good headlines. For example, the principles for writing headlines can and should be used when writing titles and descriptions for Youtube videos.

    A good YT video title should contain not only keywords, but encourage folks to click the link to view the video. The first few lines of the video's description should be treated as a "sub headline" and also contain keywords as well as enticement for people to click.

    Titles and descriptions need keywords in order to help the videos "rank" and for relevancy, but also need to entice people to click and view the videos.

    No matter what IM path you follow, at the very least you should study the art and science of writing headlines. You'll need it for email subject lines, video titles and descriptions, PPC ads, SEO, social media, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author John_3771
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Another reason is that detailed copywriting isn't needed for many IM methods, such as affiliate marketing and content publishing using Adsense for monetization.

      However, basic copywriting skills are a great benefit in ways that may not seem obvious, especially writing good headlines. For example, the principles for writing headlines can and should be used when writing titles and descriptions for Youtube videos.

      A good YT video title should contain not only keywords, but encourage folks to click the link to view the video. The first few lines of the video's description should be treated as a "sub headline" and also contain keywords as well as enticement for people to click.

      Titles and descriptions need keywords in order to help the videos "rank" and for relevancy, but also need to entice people to click and view the videos.

      No matter what IM path you follow, at the very least you should study the art and science of writing headlines. You'll need it for email subject lines, video titles and descriptions, PPC ads, SEO, social media, etc.
      I agree with this. There are a ton of ways to make money which don't involve writing your own sales copy. Most of these guys with high priced courses don't write their own sales copy and outsource it. They do realize the importance of it and that is why they pay the big bucks to hire professional copywriters. They don't really have the need to learn it because they outsource it anyways. I think that learning about it can be it's weight in gold, especially if you're a product creator without a huge budget for outsourcing copy writing. That is how I started out and it took a lot of education and even more trial-and-error to get good at it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    Alex I completely agree. However good copywriters like XponentSYS are worth there weight in gold
    I agree they are worth their weight in gold, but alot of people just can't afford to hire them, or just don't want to get involved with fake screen shots or wild claims. Let's be honest here, I've never seen great copy that didn't exaggerate. There are many reasons why people don't have good copy, but what is good copywriting? stretching the truth? making wild claims?

    I think playing on people emotions is good copywriting, stretching the truth and making wild claims is nothing more than a con artist

    The FTC didn't come down hard on IMer's because of some poor marketer with bad copywriting skills. They came down hard on us because of these so called "great copywriters"/con artist
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Good copywriting is like changing your underwear every day . . .

      We all know it's something we should do but sometimes we're in a hurry.

      Let it go too long and people begin to notice.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

      I agree they are worth their weight in gold, but alot of people just can't afford to hire them, or just don't want to get involved with fake screen shots or wild claims.
      Want to know what every marketing guru and almost every highly successful marketer have in common? All of them have learned how to write their own copy. Maybe they can't write it at a world-class level (a lot of them can though) but when budget or time constraints mean they can't outsource their copy, they're able to write it themselves and still produce sales. And early in their business life, they were writing their own copy because they couldn't afford to hire someone else to do it for them.

      I've been writing copy for my own businesses and for copywriting clients for over 20 years now... never used a fake screen shot or wild claims once and I've still managed to produce over 8 figures in sales during that time. I learned how to write my own marketing many years ago because at the time, I couldn't afford to pay someone to write it for me. I kept studying, practicing my skills until I was able to write marketing extremely well.

      Let's be honest here, I've never seen great copy that didn't exaggerate. There are many reasons why people don't have good copy, but what is good copywriting? stretching the truth? making wild claims?
      It's not a wild claim or exaggeration if the product does what is promised in the copy.

      Good copywriting is salesmanship in print. I'm not talking used car salesman tactics either. A lot of GREAT copy is written in an easy to read, conversational tone. It's talking one-to-one with someone who already has an interest in your product, explaining to them how their life could become better by using your product and then asking them for their order.

      I think playing on people emotions is good copywriting, stretching the truth and making wild claims is nothing more than a con artist
      Very true. Copywriting does not create desire for a product. It helps remove the mental obstacles holding back the existing desire for a product.

      The FTC didn't come down hard on IMer's because of some poor marketer with bad copywriting skills. They came down hard on us because of these so called "great copywriters"/con artist
      No, the FTC came down hard on marketers who were ripping off the general public with products that didn't deliver what was advertised. If you claim your product will cure baldness, then it better or you're looking at all kinds of legal troubles with the FTC and other government agencies.

      99% of copywriters know this. In addition, they also know that the FTC and other government agencies hold EVERYONE involved in a fraudulent product or service (i.e. something that physically or financially hurts consumers -- NOT something that a consumer deems is "too hard" to implement) legally accountable. That's copywriters, graphic designers, webmasters, hosting company -- EVERYONE.

      Would you want to go to jail or get hit with 5-6 figures worth of fines simply because you wrote a marketing piece for someone else? I doubt it. Neither do 99.9% of copywriters out there so they don't write crap that rips people off.

      At the end of the day, the final decision rests with the product owner on what is used to sell their product.

      There also is a level of accountability with the consumer. If something sounds too good to be true, then it's in their best interest to keep their wallet in their pocket and do some more research on the product before they buy.
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      • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
        Dude, I smell a sales letter cooking...

        ATTENTION: Struggling IMers
        Introducing, The Dead Simple, "Hidden in Plain Sight" Secret to
        Making Six or Seven Figures a Year for LIFE..


        This Secret Works Even If...
        • You Have NO Start Up Capital
        • You Have NO Connections
        • You're Using Your Rent Money to Fund Your Marketing Budget

        Dear Entrepreneur,

        Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

        Want to know what every marketing guru and almost every highly successful marketer have in common? All of them have learned how to write their own copy. Maybe they can't write it at a world-class level (a lot of them can though) but when budget or time constraints mean they can't outsource their copy, they're able to write it themselves and still produce sales. And early in their business life, they were writing their own copy because they couldn't afford to hire someone else to do it for them.
        What if YOU Could "Download," Their Copywriting Skills into YOUR Brain?
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        • Profile picture of the author Les Blythe
          Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

          Dude, I smell a sales letter cooking...

          ATTENTION: Struggling IMers
          Introducing, The Dead Simple, "Hidden in Plain Sight" Secret to
          Making Six or Seven Figures a Year for LIFE..


          This Secret Works Even If...
          • You Have NO Start Up Capital
          • You Have NO Connections
          • You're Using Your Rent Money to Fund Your Marketing Budget

          Dear Entrepreneur,



          What if YOU Could "Download," Their Copywriting Skills into YOUR Brain?
          LOL - Very clever indeed - love what you did with that

          Just to illustrate a point. I put a WSO up yesterday for my copywriting services, offering a 400 word review article (500 word special for Warriors) for free.

          Okay, my pricing post review article is (currently) cheap.

          Result - 53 articles to produce and counting, with only 3 done for free! Plus another job that isn't strictly article writing and that I'm charging for as well.

          It goes to show that quality writers are indeed in demand and I must say - it has been a very interesting exercise that confirms much of what has been said in the thread.
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          • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
            Originally Posted by Les Blythe View Post

            LOL - Very clever indeed - love what you did with that

            Just to illustrate a point. I put a WSO up yesterday for my copywriting services, offering a 400 word review article (500 word special for Warriors) for free.

            Okay, my pricing post review article is (currently) cheap.

            Result - 53 articles to produce and counting, with only 3 done for free! Plus another job that isn't strictly article writing and that I'm charging for as well.

            It goes to show that quality writers are indeed in demand and I must say - it has been a very interesting exercise that confirms much of what has been said in the thread.
            Congrats on getting that off the ground.

            You might want to read this through,

            http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...le-writer.html
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            • Profile picture of the author Les Blythe
              Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

              Congrats on getting that off the ground.

              You might want to read this through,

              http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...le-writer.html
              Excellent point and well made. I have just started writing for others on a paid basis, apart from helping quite a number of people out informally.

              Having said that, I have written copy for my own websites and other projects I have been involved in for a couple of years now and studied copywriting in some detail. My work has been pretty well received.

              I'm a Kindle Best Selling Author with 13 books live on Kindle and depending on your view of Kindle that means something or perhaps nothing at all

              Of course, I'm not stupid or arrogant enough to think I know it all and am constantly learning and adding to my skill set (I hope). I'm aware, naturally, of the "big ticket" writers out there. I did get stung in my early days of IM by a big ticket, go to guy, who happily pocketed a substantial amount of my hard earned cash for very little indeed - so buyer beware!

              My objective is to over-deliver in my writing, just as I have done in other aspects of IM where I have done well. I take it very personally when I get a bad press, which doesn't happen very often thankfully. In short I take pride in what I do and do it to the best of my ability.

              That said, there are just people out there who want to put you (anyone) down for reasons I just can't fathom. Case to point a Kindle book with 10x5 star reviews that suddenly gets a 1 star review out of the blue - it happens.

              Thanks for the heads up - I appreciate your pointing me to that
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              • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
                Originally Posted by Les Blythe View Post

                I have just started writing for others on a paid basis, apart from helping quite a number of people out informally.

                Having said that, I have written copy for my own websites and other projects I have been involved in for a couple of years now and studied copywriting in some detail.
                Smart move. After all...a familiar scene is...

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  • Profile picture of the author Ihate9to5
    People are most interested in the money not copy writing .Is not exciting to most people but it is the key to closing sales.
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    Life is for living

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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    Some folks just aren't good with words, that's a fact...BUT

    Teaching people how and why sales copy works, and how to format it so even if you don't have the smooth words the sales copy flows smoothly through the process.

    For instance in a long sales letter we know that people aren't going to start at the top and read it through like the pages of a book

    first they read the headline and maybe the top paragraph... so put a strong benefit in the first paragraph to keep them interested...

    Next we know that they will usually scroll down to the price next to see if its in their price range, so underneath the price put 2 strong benefit laden PS:

    If you still have them they will then scroll back to the top and skim the whole sales letter, so make sure the bolded parts of your adcopy make sense as if they were the only text on the page ( make the bolded parts read like a short form of the adcopy)

    If you still have them they will either buy or read the adcopy properly to get more details

    Ad-copy isn't designed to be read like a book its there so you can answer any objections that might come up once you have them half interested.

    In face to face sales you get the chance to answer objections directly for each customer, but in adcopy you have to answer any objections that might come up from everybody that reads it, that's why some adcopy is longer than others.

    These days though you can use video to fill out the details, so keeping the written text to a minimum.

    Understanding how adcopy works is much more beneficial than actually being able to write sexy words
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    • Profile picture of the author jbprich
      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      Some folks just aren't good with words, that's a fact...BUT

      Teaching people how and why sales copy works, and how to format it so even if you don't have the smooth words the sales copy flows smoothly through the process.

      For instance in a long sales letter we know that people aren't going to start at the top and read it through like the pages of a book

      first they read the headline and maybe the top paragraph... so put a strong benefit in the first paragraph to keep them interested...

      Next we know that they will usually scroll down to the price next to see if its in their price range, so underneath the price put 2 strong benefit laden PS:

      If you still have them they will then scroll back to the top and skim the whole sales letter, so make sure the bolded parts of your adcopy make sense as if they were the only text on the page ( make the bolded parts read like a short form of the adcopy)

      If you still have them they will either buy or read the adcopy properly to get more details

      Ad-copy isn't designed to be read like a book its there so you can answer any objections that might come up once you have them half interested.

      In face to face sales you get the chance to answer objections directly for each customer, but in adcopy you have to answer any objections that might come up from everybody that reads it, that's why some adcopy is longer than others.

      These days though you can use video to fill out the details, so keeping the written text to a minimum.

      Understanding how adcopy works is much more beneficial than actually being able to write sexy words
      Hey Robert Puddy

      You have made some excellent points, especially about the PS's at the bottom, and the the truth that people scroll down to see the price. LOL I do that too

      Thanks for your comment.
      PS LOL (just a add on to your comment) I am a member of a couple of your sites. ISPG being just one. Oh and it is one I am making money from thanks for an awesome program

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author evakent256
    I am also a copywriter and I am deeply dissapointed of how neglected this area is. Well, I am optimistic that it will come with time!
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Copywriting is not mentioned, like many other important details are not mentioned in those IM courses because they are superficial. They show you only the surface, without talking about all the important details you have to learn.

    If there was sincerity online, internet marketers would have to sell encyclopedias to teach you everything you need to know to make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author GaryRodriguez
    The main reason for the negligence of copy writing is that it is a breaker for creativity. If we taught our students for copy writing, they never want to create their own products. They always try to take it from others. We do courses for creating something new not for using older things. If we can't able to do any creativity, then what is the meaning of our taking lessons.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      A long time ago, after reading just about every copywriting book I could get my hands on and absorbing all the mumbo-jumbo, I sat down and wrote a book that's no longer for sale (sorry folks) called "Basic Copywriting In Plain English" because I was sick and tired of all the gobbly gook and confusing explanations.

      Teaching copywriting CAN be very simple. That's not what's hard.

      What's hard is...

      1) Understanding your product and target market.

      If you don't truly understand what your target market wants to get out of the product you're selling them, you won't be able to come up with the proper words that will push their buttons into buying. No copywriting book in the world can make you understand your target market. And you'd be surprised how many people DON'T truly understand their target market.

      For example, somebody selling an acne product thinks that understanding what they're target market wants is simple. They just want to get rid of their acne.

      No, they don't want to get rid of their acne.

      They want that cute girl sitting across from them in chemistry class to notice them so that maybe they can score a date with her. And that's just one of the many reasons people want to get rid of their acne.

      But you have to dig deep down and understand what it is you're selling and why people really want it. Because of the fact that this is something copywriting can't teach (too much human psychology involved) marketers stay away from making these kind of products.

      2) Developing your talent for using words.

      No matter what I teach you about headlines, sub headlines, bullet points, guarantees, pricing and blah, blah, blah, I can't turn you into a talented wordsmith.

      Personally, it's not in my makeup to come up with stuff like "suck your eyeballs out with plungers" because I just don't think like that. I'm a more to the point copywriter. But I do understand my target market and I know how to push their buttons. I just don't do it with the flair for words that some copywriters have, which is why I don't technically consider myself a copywriter even though I have always written my own copy since day one.

      Again, I can't teach you how to pick your words. I can't turn you into John Carlton if you write like John Doe. Nobody can. That's a talent that has to be developed. My own talent has only developed so far and that's as far as it'll go until I push myself to develop it farther. Right now, I have no desire to do that. So it won't happen.

      So yeah, any decent copywriter can give you the ABCs, but I think most realize that very few people will ever really take a copywriting course and run with it because of what I pointed out above. It's why my copywriting book, of all my products, was my worst seller.

      Gee, I can't imagine why.
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    • Profile picture of the author jbprich
      Originally Posted by GaryRodriguez View Post

      The main reason for the negligence of copy writing is that it is a breaker for creativity. If we taught our students for copy writing, they never want to create their own products. They always try to take it from others. We do courses for creating something new not for using older things. If we can't able to do any creativity, then what is the meaning of our taking lessons.
      Hi GaryRodriguez

      Now not to squash your creativity, I will steal a quote from one of the most read books on the planet. "The Bible" Ecclesiastes states "There is nothing new under the sun" Everything we do is taken form someone else, even the words that we speak.

      Creativity is good, but it can stifle action. People can get so caught up trying to create something new, that they loose track of the thing that matters most, getting things done.
      In other words creative action. Just because you use ideas from someone else, does not make it less relevant.

      Don't get me wrong I admire creative people as they bring beauty to the wold, and the world is a much better place because of them. But why not reuse something that works and in the mean time try and come up with something new for later.

      I heard someone say the other day that I thought was so creative. It was referring to writing content. they said. "You need to write in a way that will grab your readers by the eyeballs and force them to read." grab them by the eyeballs LOL now that is creative.
      Don't begrudge people who use other peoples Ideas, It is what works that matters, not weather it is original.
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  • Profile picture of the author jamescanz
    Because it's simply not as 'sexy' as many other components of MMO
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by jamescanz View Post

      Because it's simply not as 'sexy' as many other components of MMO
      Yeah, that too.

      As a customer, which would YOU rather have?

      "Learn how to write great copy so you can make people buy your stuff"

      or

      "Get this biz in a box, stick it on a domain, and make all the monies"

      Go to the WSO forum and take a look at the offers.

      That pretty much says it all.
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      • Profile picture of the author jbprich
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Yeah, that too.

        As a customer, which would YOU rather have?

        "Learn how to write great copy so you can make people buy your stuff"

        or

        "Get this biz in a box, stick it on a domain, and make all the monies"

        Go to the WSO forum and take a look at the offers.

        That pretty much says it all.
        Hi Steven
        This is a little simplistic however I get your point. I loved your comments earlier about human psychology. It is just a matter of really knowing your target market, and getting into there head and emotionally connecting with them. This takes research and really understanding the real pain they are experiencing. In MMO it is mostly seeking freedom and having the freedom to do what you really want.
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  • Profile picture of the author aboutsophie
    I am a copywriter too, but i think if we bring it into course, it will be something interpreted as manipulating people's mind by words. sounds like illusionists, but if so, it would be sexy as hell.

    then copywriting is something comes from your genuine thoughts, as you have lego bricks and you create your own version of world.

    and why still 'copywriting' is something with red line under as if it were misspelled?
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  • Profile picture of the author Les Blythe
    Personally, I believe that it is a lot to do with the fact that not everyone is a decent copywriter. Whilst you can teach yourself to become better at it, there are a number of reasons why Internet Marketers in particular might struggle:
    • Lack of a formal education
    • Lack of application (it's just too hard)
    • Lack of interest (see the above point)
    • English is not your first language
    • The English language if being "modernized"
    What I mean by the last point is that we are now so used to using cell phones and messaging systems with "abbreviated" English (cul8r) that a lot of English grammar and punctuation is being lost.
    On the other hand, some can just write effectively and some can not - to each their own I guess
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  • Profile picture of the author firehawk
    You only make a sell through PERSUASION.Just how many folks come to underestimate this is hard to understand.There's not better way to master and manipulate BUYER PSYCHOLOGY apart from copywriting.In fact there's a big deal of psychology in marketing either online or otherwise. Copywriting is the holy grail of CONVERSION.It's what sits between traffic and sales.How can we help many IMers if not most grab the critical importance of this key pillar of SALE-OGY is the million dollar question.
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    That's the paradox of entrepreneurship. Most business owners grossly underestimate how important copywriting is while overestimating the important of everything else.

    What's ironic is that everyone knows how important communication is for building interpersonal relationships. They know that it can make or break a marriage, a friendship, a business partnership or a parent to child relationship. They know how easy it is to lose value, love, respect, trust and compassion simply because of a simple miscommunication.

    Most of them would never dream of investing $3,000 into a suit of clothes and spending 4 hours in front of the mirror trying to look nice for a date or interview while spending no time working on their presentation or their communication skills. They know that communication is the oxygen of relationships.

    Yet, the second they decide to communicate with their target market through a media channel like web, print, Social Media, TV or radio, they seem to assume some invisible magic angel has waved his magic wand and made the most important dynamic of connection and relationship building obsolete.

    I meet business owners all the time who have no idea what copywriting even is. Most of them treat it like an afterthought while pouring money into slick designs and hiring employees who do one hour's worth of work in exchange for one day's pay. Courses on traffic and list, even courses on building a wealth mindset and using the law of attraction, outsell copywriting courses by a landslide.

    THIS is why so few entrepreneur's ever get rich.

    In a way, it's very good news for those of us who get it. Puts us at an unfair advantage. Goes back to Earl Nightengale said about success, and possibly the most valuable peice of advice ever uttered by a human tongue:

    "If you want to succeed at something and have no idea where to start, all you need to is to find out what the majority of the people are doing, and do exactly the opposite."
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    • Profile picture of the author Wealthyclark
      Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

      "If you want to succeed at something and have no idea where to start, all you need to is to find out what the majority of the people are doing, and do exactly the opposite."
      In my online experience I have found this to be one of the truest statements ever spoken. It took years for me to realize but what I found is that some of the most important aspects of succeeding as an online marketer are rarely discussed.

      Wishing you all much success,
      WealthyClark
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  • Profile picture of the author KingCPA
    I think it's because most courses reduce marketing all the way down to it's main parts. Headlines play a bigger role in affiliate marketing than body copy (usually); If your doing internet marketing, it's more than likely that whatever product you're promoting has copy is already written for it. Internet marketing focuses mostly on promoting an offer to a crowd of people, copy writing is more connected with the creation of the product itself.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tan Shengg
      Originally Posted by KingCPA View Post

      I think it's because most courses reduce marketing all the way down to it's main parts. Headlines play a bigger role in affiliate marketing than body copy (usually); If your doing internet marketing, it's more than likely that whatever product you're promoting has copy is already written for it. Internet marketing focuses mostly on promoting an offer to a crowd of people, copy writing is more connected with the creation of the product itself.

      100% agree. Headline is one of the most important factor for the success of copywriting. Of course other factors come into place as well.
      But headline create the first impression. It either catch the buyer attention or not.
      A person that decide reading the rest of the copy will determine on headline.

      I remember when I first started. I neglect the headline. And my conversation drop greatly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tan Shengg
    I feel copywriting is a skill and it takes time to learn and master.
    Nowdays, people want something that is able to help them make money fast, so courses are taught on "how to make fast money" instead.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thesisss
    I think copywriting comes with the person, you have it or you don't. You can not learn it, you sure can learn rules, tips but not the "sales appeal" that you put in your works, it could come with experience such as good reflexes, i think that's why there are no "possible" valuable learning courses for copywriting.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tan Shengg
      Originally Posted by Thesisss View Post

      I think copywriting comes with the person, you have it or you don't. You can not learn it, you sure can learn rules, tips but not the "sales appeal" that you put in your works, it could come with experience such as good reflexes, i think that's why there are no "possible" valuable learning courses for copywriting.
      Well, I don't agree.. I believe with the right training, practice and experience.. Anyone can do it. It is only a matter of how long it takes for one to master this skill.
      But for those who start from "0" knowledge of what is copywriting, it will takes more determination, hard work and time to learn.
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  • Profile picture of the author charleswilson1002
    Banned
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