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Should the Copywriting and CRO forums be merged?

by Cam Connor
25 replies
Recently, there was discussion over the "Content Strategies & Copywriting" section (now renamed to "Copywriting")... and now that there's a section dedicated to CRO, I believe, in an effort to consolidate forums which DO actually belong together, it makes sense for the guys at Freelancer to merge the Copywriting & CRO forums, as these two things really go hand in hand.

Your thoughts?
#copywriting #cro #forums #merged
  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

    Recently, there was discussion over the "Content Strategies & Copywriting" section (now renamed to "Copywriting")... and now that there's a section dedicated to CRO, I believe, in an effort to consolidate forums which DO actually belong together, it makes sense for the guys at Freelancer to merge the Copywriting & CRO forums, as these two things really go hand in hand.

    Your thoughts?
    What's CRO?
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      CRO (Conversion Rate Optimization) can be things that aren't copy-related.

      For example:

      * Testing different color order buttons
      * Header vs no header on the page
      * Different video sizes on the page
      * Static vs delayed order buttons

      Copywriting is still very important but there are times where you can bump up conversion rates without needing to change a word on the marketing piece.

      For these reasons, my vote would be to keep them separate.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
        Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

        CRO (Conversion Rate Optimization) can be things that aren't copy-related.

        For example:

        * Testing different color order buttons
        * Header vs no header on the page
        * Different video sizes on the page
        * Static vs delayed order buttons

        Copywriting is still very important but there are times where you can bump up conversion rates without needing to change a word on the marketing piece.

        For these reasons, my vote would be to keep them separate.
        True, but they don't have to overlap 100% of the time. They're both essentially about the same thing: increased conversion rate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
    Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

    Your thoughts?
    Terrible idea.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
      CRO isn't much about button sizes and color... if you look at the forums which are there now, most of it's pretty solid stuff related to conversions. I offer my CRO and Copywriting services hand in hand, as I think many Copywrites do.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chriswrighto
        Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

        CRO isn't much about button sizes and color... if you look at the forums which are there now, most of it's pretty solid stuff related to conversions. I offer my CRO and Copywriting services hand in hand, as I think many Copywrites do.
        I think they should be kept separate.

        Here's why...

        People are lazy.

        They want results fast and now.

        By merging the two forums, we're going to lose a lot of good copywriting discussions because it is the path less travelled.

        People would rather edit a dimension of a button/headline/etc than spend anytime learning copywriting.

        We have just managed to protect the independence of the 'Copywriting' forum. I'd rather not invite more changes which'll put the community in uproar again.
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        • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
          Originally Posted by Chriswrighto View Post

          I think they should be kept separate.

          Here's why...

          People are lazy.

          They want results fast and now.

          By merging the two forums, we're going to lose a lot of good copywriting discussions because it is the path less travelled.

          People would rather edit a dimension of a button/headline/etc than spend anytime learning copywriting.

          We have just managed to protect the independence of the 'Copywriting' forum. I'd rather not invite more changes which'll put the community in uproar again.
          What he said.
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            If you divide up the differences between copywriting and web conversion
            it's good to have a definition of each...

            Here are 2...

            COPYWRITING: turning the written word into money

            WEB CONVERSION: turning website visitors into money
            through the use of objects

            Lets further discuss the objects part.

            This can include, but not limited to...

            photo of a smiling woman
            clickable trust seals
            exit pop ups
            live chat boxes
            client logos
            media logos
            red dotted line around order button
            number of sections within a form fill
            location of sign up form
            navigation bar
            colors
            endorsements

            As you can see from this list, it has little to do with writing.

            Draw your own conclusions.

            Best,
            Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author AustinDigital
    CRO is much more than just copywriting, so no.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
      Originally Posted by AustinDigital View Post

      CRO is much more than just copywriting, so no.
      Man, CRO isn't enough compared to Copywriting, just button colors and sizes... CRO is too much compared to Copywriting. I can't win with you people... Gosh
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      • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
        Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

        Man, CRO isn't enough compared to Copywriting, just button colors and sizes... CRO is too much compared to Copywriting. I can't win with you people... Gosh
        You aren't marketing what the knowledgeable people here want, or what they want to help with.

        And without those experienced people, this forum would be of very little value to people wanting to learn about copywriting. And in that case, why bother to check in here?

        Personally, I'm not interested in anything except copywriting, or salesmanship in print. And I have learned a great deal since I've been following this forum.

        So if I want to learn about something else or other aspects, I'm quite capable of finding those other forums.

        Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Copywriting also has a lot to do with how to make more money but
    it is not a part of the main section. Copywriting is a huge enough
    subject to have its own forum not just a subforum. So why
    mess with perfection?

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author pewpewpewmonkeys
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Conversion Optimization the purpose of the entire website as a whole? It would be like creating a car forum, with subforums for different topics, then creating a new subforum called "Cars" and then saying "Shouldn't the new Cars subforum be combined with the Tire subforum since they're related?"

    I think you're going to see the CRO subforum turn into a mess with people wanting their dreams answered instead of doing real research. Main forum #2. Maybe not, we'll see.
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    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by pewpewpewmonkeys View Post


      I think you're going to see the CRO subforum turn into a mess with people wanting their dreams answered instead of doing real research. Main forum #2. Maybe not, we'll see.
      I have nothing substantive to add. I'm only commenting because I love this guy's screen name, beard statement, and signature. Bravo, sir.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
        Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

        I have nothing substantive to add. I'm only commenting because I love this guy's screen name, beard statement, and signature. Bravo, sir.
        Yea, I didn't read his post, but you inspired me to read those other things... good stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Personally, I like the idea of a dedicated forum for the analytical/metrics side of things to keep the focus here on the creative.

    Naturally, many of the readers of this section are interested, involved and experienced in both disciplines -- but they ARE different areas of focus, albeit sharing a common goal... more $$$.

    It shouldn't come as a surprise that some of the best copywriters in the world know virtually jack squat about the mechanics of testing...

    ...while some of the most successful marketers in the game are fanatical and very savvy testers but would sooner cut off an appendage than write their own copy.

    Time will tell, but I think it's a good move.

    Best to all,

    Brian
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    Brian McLeod
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  • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
    This is the first time I've visited since Freelancer took over, and I like that the new CRO forum (so far). It's not copywriting and shouldn't have anything to do with it. It's still useful, but if I want someone to critique my new headline, I want replies from the excellent group of experts here rather than a load of people more interested in whether I should put my sign up form on the right or left.
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  • Profile picture of the author richgerald
    I think we should opt to keep them separate.
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    • Profile picture of the author wordwizard
      Yup. My vote goes to keeping the two separate as well.

      There's nothing wrong with going to two forums for a more complete take on optimization, but I find that if the two get combined, the copywriting portion is likely to get watered down and become less focused and interesting, just because it will take longer to sort through everything.

      Plus I wonder whether the really cool insider discussions that take place here will continue if the two forums get merged. I don't really want to take a chance on having them disappear.

      Also, will all the highly valuable stickies be transferred in their entirety? Somehow I'm concerned that they might get lost.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raymond Duke
    I know this comment does nothing to help with what I'm about to say, but the quality of the content on this forum is awful.

    I think it has to do with a lack of leadership or direction -- it's a free for all, reminiscent of a Jr. High hallway.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
      I'm surprised to see this thread is alive. Just about everyone has voted to keep them separate. I know, it's not surprising... this is the Copywriting section, and a lot of Copywriters still aren't into CRO. I think merging them would benefit the WF as a whole, since there's just too many sub-forums atm, which was part of the reason for the suggestion, but, the response has been overwhelming negative, and since I didn't really care that much to begin with, separate it is. lol No biggie.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by Raymond Duke View Post

      I know this comment does nothing to help with what I'm about to say, but the quality of the content on this forum is awful.

      I think it has to do with a lack of leadership or direction -- it's a free for all, reminiscent of a Jr. High hallway.
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  • Profile picture of the author jtunkelo
    I'd rather keep them separate. Sure, there's overlap but it's a different modality so the discussions tend to be from different viewpoints.
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