52 replies
Hi Guys,

Please help me out with my new sales page I have launched few days ago,
this page refers to future brides and guide them through their wedding planning process.
Welcome to The Bible of the Bride | Free Yourself from Wedding Jitters

I invested in the design & writing a lot so I will appreciate you comments
and suggestions,
In addition I would like to know what "good conversation rates' are?
%1 , %2 , %0.5 ?
I know some of you will say depend of the affiliate/referral, depends on the price , on the niche...and etc.
But if you look at my niche and prices level what will be consider as a "good conversation rate"?

#critique #page #sales
  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    guys I really need your help , please give me some comments
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    • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
      Relax. It's 4 or 5am where most of the forum lives. And it's been 90 minutes since you posted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
    The personal element is great. However, I wouldn't dive straight into it in the intro of your letter. This is what I want to know when I get to your site:

    1.) What are you promoting
    2.) What's in it for me

    The prospective customer reads your intro and thinks, "That sucks, but what does this have to do with me?" People have VERY short attention spans so you must dive into it from the get-go.

    In short: Tell them what your report is about in the BEGINNING. How to avoid disasters. How to pick the right wedding planner. How to prepare. Relate to the customer - something like, "We all want our wedding to be the happiest days of our lives. After all, this is the day we marry the one we plan to grow old with, so we should rejoice, right? Well unless you take the time to properly plan the day you walk down the aisle in that beautiful white dress, the wedding will be a DISASTER."

    Of course, that was off the top of my head so you'll want to work on it, but feel free to use it.

    The headline/subheadline should also be more elaborate. Something like, "Finally, You Can Let Go of Your Wedding Jitters and Let Marrying Your Man Be the Happiest Day of Your Life!" Once again, off the top of my head.

    People have fears about weddings, true. But, make sure to address the positive side - they want their weddings to be HAPPY occasions. The guide you're selling will allow just that.
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    • Profile picture of the author barakos9
      Originally Posted by moneysoapbox View Post

      The personal element is great. However, I wouldn't dive straight into it in the intro of your letter. This is what I want to know when I get to your site:

      1.) What are you promoting
      2.) What's in it for me

      The prospective customer reads your intro and thinks, "That sucks, but what does this have to do with me?" People have VERY short attention spans so you must dive into it from the get-go.

      In short: Tell them what your report is about in the BEGINNING. How to avoid disasters. How to pick the right wedding planner. How to prepare. Relate to the customer - something like, "We all want our wedding to be the happiest days of our lives. After all, this is the day we marry the one we plan to grow old with, so we should rejoice, right? Well unless you take the time to properly plan the day you walk down the aisle in that beautiful white dress, the wedding will be a DISASTER."

      Of course, that was off the top of my head so you'll want to work on it, but feel free to use it.

      The headline/subheadline should also be more elaborate. Something like, "Finally, You Can Let Go of Your Wedding Jitters and Let Marrying Your Man Be the Happiest Day of Your Life!" Once again, off the top of my head.

      People have fears about weddings, true. But, make sure to address the positive side - they want their weddings to be HAPPY occasions. The guide you're selling will allow just that.
      please PM me
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Murdaugh
    94% is a pretty good conversion rate...

    Seriously, that's an impossible question to answer. Are you making more money in sales than you're spending on traffic? If so, you're on the right track.

    -Scott
    Signature

    Over $30 Million In Marketing Data And A Decade Of Consistently Generating Breakthrough Results - Ask How My Unique Approach To Copy Typically Outsells Traditional Ads By Up To 29x Or More...

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  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    Thank you guys I really appreciate your comments,
    But still I can't find the reason of %90+ bounce rate...
    really it's quite weird, 9 of 10 people are staying less then 5 sec and jump out..
    can someone please tell me why that happens?
    I mean the design is great , the header is an eye catching one...so what seems to be
    the problem??
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    • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
      Originally Posted by barakos9 View Post

      Thank you guys I really appreciate your comments,
      But still I can't find the reason of %90+ bounce rate...
      really it's quite weird, 9 of 10 people are staying less then 5 sec and jump out..
      can someone please tell me why that happens?
      I mean the design is great , the header is an eye catching one...so what seems to be
      the problem??
      Are you kidding?

      Go look at a bridal magazine. Notice the colors, the fonts, the layout. See how it feels.

      Now look at your site. See the difference?

      Here are a few tips:

      The purple color scheme looks like something from the 80's.

      "The Bible of the Bride" title is confusing and the way the text is laid out made me read it 3 times before I "got it".

      The headline font is a "male" font. The headline itself is vague and meaningless. The subhead isn't much better.

      The story has no emotion to it. It's not something I (as a bride) resonate with. It feels clunky and made up. And it doesn't paint you in a favorable light.

      So... that's just the first page or two of your website. And that's why people are leaving in 5 seconds.
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      • Profile picture of the author barakos9
        Originally Posted by Kyle Tully View Post

        Are you kidding?

        Go look at a bridal magazine. Notice the colors, the fonts, the layout. See how it feels.

        Now look at your site. See the difference?

        Here are a few tips:

        The purple color scheme looks like something from the 80's.

        "The Bible of the Bride" title is confusing and the way the text is laid out made me read it 3 times before I "got it".

        The headline font is a "male" font. The headline itself is vague and meaningless. The subhead isn't much better.

        The story has no emotion to it. It's not something I (as a bride) resonate with. It feels clunky and made up. And it doesn't paint you in a favorable light.

        So... that's just the first page or two of your website. And that's why people are leaving in 5 seconds.
        Hi,

        Thanks for your comment,

        First,

        " The purple color scheme looks like something from the 80's"

        that's weird because I invested a lot in professional designer..

        " The headline font is a "male" font. The headline itself is vague and meaningless. The subhead isn't much better"

        Can you suggest other fonts?

        ""The Bible of the Bride" title is confusing and the way the text is laid out made me read it 3 times before I "got it"."
        I didn't fully understood what you mean? do you have any suggestion?

        "The story has no emotion to it. It's not something I (as a bride) resonate with. It feels clunky and made up. And it doesn't paint you in a favorable light."
        I can't totally agree with you here. I think that disaster wedding is a really emotional story..


        Thank you
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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by barakos9 View Post

      really it's quite weird, 9 of 10 people are staying less then 5 sec and jump out..
      can someone please tell me why that happens?
      Where is the traffic coming from? That matters.

      5 seconds is all it takes to realize they're reading a sales page and they leave.

      Maybe your traffic is looking for information and not a sales page?
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      "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
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      • Profile picture of the author barakos9
        Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer View Post

        Where is the traffic coming from? That matters.

        5 seconds is all it takes to realize they're reading a sales page and they leave.

        Maybe your traffic is looking for information and not a sales page?
        No that's not the problem either, I'm promoting via PPC and the ksywords are highly relevant.
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  • Profile picture of the author julesbrad
    "But still I can't find the reason of %90+ bounce rate...
    really it's quite weird, 9 of 10 people are staying less then 5 sec and jump out..
    can someone please tell me why that happens?"

    How are people getting to your site ?
    What terms are they using to find your site ?
    Maybe the answer could be in your response to these questions
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    1 Hour Muscles - New Fitness/Bodybuilding Product - Looking for affiliates
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    • Profile picture of the author barakos9
      Originally Posted by julesbrad View Post

      "But still I can't find the reason of %90+ bounce rate...
      really it's quite weird, 9 of 10 people are staying less then 5 sec and jump out..
      can someone please tell me why that happens?"

      How are people getting to your site ?
      What terms are they using to find your site ?
      Maybe the answer could be in your response to these questions

      mostly PPC and the keywords are highly relevant so I think the problem isn't In the way people are getting into my site...
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  • Profile picture of the author opportunity_kno
    I actually do not mind the purple either... but next to the blue, red, yellow in your fonts/highlighting it does become tacky....

    yes the title is confusing, that person is right...

    but you have paid for this domain name by now? things that sell well these days are things like ____(product name)___for dummies...

    you could try "wedding101fordummies"

    or weddingbudgetfordummies

    or weddingbible

    or bridebible

    or weddingday101

    you can have or put 101 after... 101 is generally considered the 100% know it all term for things...


    But I absolutely agree that your website domain name, and title for one would confuse a person...

    you definitely do not want your potential customers questioning these kinds of things or thinking something is weird, or fishy!


    some phrases you use, as well, can be stronger in the call to action such as "left me twisting in the wind"...

    it just sounds weird... and one may sit there trying to visualize it, and then become confused as previously mentioned.

    You can try something like


    "Did you know almost every couple will get scammed by wedding planners and bridal companies by over $xxx amount per wedding?"

    or something that makes a person go "oh my god" and want to read more....

    immediately...

    i do like the way you set up the payment things and the actual photographs/graphics area etc..

    but the wording can definitely be more productive for your website.

    it also jumps and seems unrelated


    look at what you are talking about in the beginning about hijacked wedding

    then you talk about how you were fat... nails werent done..

    then jump again to being in debt....

    make it flow!!!!

    I think you should PM me or something... if you want some honesty here I can tell you a few things that are causing this... there is actually quite a bit...


    i can tell you why as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    Thank you guys!
    I think I have some work to do...
    Can I get some extra comments?
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    Comments from a Groom to be....

    Tell me the story of how he asked you to marry him. Even though you had everything go wrong, it was still the day of my life would have been a compelling ending. Put more positive spin on it.

    My fiance would buy this...for one reason...she doesnt know what to do to set up wedding, who she should invite, who she cant invite due to budget. Nothing. She would buy something that she could use as a planner, even online just because there is no way we can afford $5K for a planner.

    She would also want to know a few secrets, what is the current treads, etc. She would want to know what would be different for an older bride than young one (she is 37).

    You may also be late in the season for this. Most wedding searches are thanksgiving until first week of Jan.

    Also, YOU NEED PICS AT START.

    I would headline one of your emotional benefits such as: Find out what one devastating mistake most brides make when ordering invitations, and how to avoid it!"
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    I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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  • Profile picture of the author lharding
    WOW! It's very negative.

    Perhaps you should focus on the Wedding Planner that you mention. You know, Discover the SECRETS every wedding planner uses.. blah, blah. It may be a better angle to push the fact that you've captured the "Insider" tips and tricks to creating the perfect wedding, rather than I'm fat and the dress will look crap type stuff.

    I think the colour (sorry color) scheme is OK, but I think it's been mentioned before, the site doesn't come across in that EXTREME POLISHED look that the wedding magazines have. I think you've got to remember.. PRINCESS getting married, glamour, perfection etc. Not doom and gloom.

    Cheers, L
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    Lee Harding
    The Architect
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Your purple background loads first then your white
    salespage loads over it. I'm using a wireless connection
    and it took more than 1 sec. - so I'm guessing you
    have a loading issue affecting response.

    If you are just looking at your own site on a super-fast
    wired broadband connection you are doing yourself
    a dis-service.

    The purple is a bit odd - aggravated by your load-time
    issue.

    I didn't read your letter, by I skimmed it.

    As a skimmer your attempt to scare me about DEBT seemed
    off-base and not in-synch with the images or headline,
    which are about people (happy bride and groom in picture,
    wedding planner in words)... so where does the abstract
    warning about DEBT come up in a human story?

    Seems like a disconnected transition that you've over
    emphasized with your use of graphics.

    Your bullets about the debt issue, while drawing the eye,
    are fragmentary sentences which have little meaning
    or reference unless I've read the letter up to that point -
    so you've assumed your readers are participating in a linear
    way, yet many are not. They are scrolling up and down
    looking for what it's about and what it costs and what
    it does.

    I was a little bit taken aback by your price - then I scrolled
    down and was, like, "oh Wow. Software" - but you leave
    me hanging because you don't tell me what the software
    does for me. You have to sell the bonus too.
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  • Profile picture of the author kennedyhouse
    The sales lead is way too long. I looked at it for about 2 seconds, and came back here to see what others thought. It does not hold my interest.

    The testimonials and pictures toward the bottom would be much better placed near the top. Most people aren't going to actually read through the whole sales pitch, they want to skim and be able to pull out key points about what it is you're offering.

    Your page does not do that.

    Just because you pay a lot for "professional design" doesn't mean you get quality product.
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  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    Huge thanks to you all!
    I will definitely use your suggestion and come up with a batter sales page.
    The product itself is really good, so as the free bonus ( I will write about that too)
    I will make set of changes and let you know.

    Thank you





    Thank you
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
    Originally Posted by barakos9 View Post

    Hi Guys,




    Please help me out with my new sales page I have launched few days ago,
    this page refers to future brides and guide them through their wedding planning process.
    Welcome to The Bible of the Bride | Free Yourself from Wedding Jitters

    I invested in the design & writing a lot so I will appreciate you comments
    and suggestions,
    In addition I would like to know what "good conversation rates' are?
    %1 , %2 , %0.5 ?
    I know some of you will say depend of the affiliate/referral, depends on the price , on the niche...and etc.
    But if you look at my niche and prices level what will be consider as a "good conversation rate"?
    Hi Barokos9,

    I looked at your sales page and noticed your still struggling with it. My wife was in my office when I was looking at it, so I had her take a look. She said the headline subhead and first three paragraphs were so negetive she wanted to stop reading.

    I see you must be going for the formula PAS, problem, agitate, solution, but I just don't think it's working. So, I decided to help you out. Here you go.


    Make your wedding fabulous!...



    "Discover How To Make Your
    Wedding The Greatest Day
    Of Your Life"

    Wedding insider reveals the
    secrets to making your
    special day perfect




    Dear bride to be,

    I would like you to imagine something for a moment. I want you to imagine your wedding day...people laughing, dancing, singing, and having a great time. Your wedding reception...the music is perfect, the food is exquisite, and your family and friends are having a blast.

    Can you picture this?. Yes, good. Well, I've put a special book together for you to make it all happen. Why have I done this?. I'm not going to go into great detail but let's just say my wedding was a disaster...O.k., a real nightmare.

    And I've vowed never to let this happen to a bride again. Hi my name is Elizabeth Stewart, and I have spent countless hours, upon hours, researching, interviewing and taking notes on wedding specialists and what it takes to make your day perfect.

    Here's a little of what you will discover in my book,

    - What the number one mistake is when planning a wedding, and
    how to avoid it.

    - How to get your honeymoon destination at pennies on the dollar...or
    FREE, you just have to know what to say to your travel agent.

    - The dirty little secret that wedding halls don't want you to know, I
    reveal it all on page 12.

    - The simple secret to picking the best photographer, ask these
    questions to make sure your photographer is just right for your special
    day.

    - Discover how to get the exact wedding dress that you want... at the
    price you want to pay, buy it in this particular month and save
    hundreds.

    Etc...Etc...Etc

    O.k., you see where I'm going with this, barakos9. Then go into more body copy lots of desire, lots of benefits, and a strong call to action.

    Hope this helps you out

    Take care

    Bill Jeffels
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    • Profile picture of the author barakos9
      Hello Wonderful Bill!

      This is the first time someone is helping (for free) in a way he could defiantly charge some serious money.
      I've no words to thank you for what you've done here.
      I think it's important to give from time to time..
      and that's really what you've done here.
      I think you've some great writing skills, and you idea is really assume,

      P.S
      I appreciate your help and I'll definitely use your suggestion.

      Regards,

      Barak
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      • Profile picture of the author dorothydot
        Of all the responses you got for all your threads about this one sales page, you only value this one - why? Because he wrote most of it for you?

        Lots of very knowledgeable people gave you a great deal of FREE advice.

        Each reply held value and took time and effort to compose and enter.
        Signature

        "Sell the Magic of A Dream"
        www.DP-Copywriting-Service.com

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        • Profile picture of the author barakos9
          Originally Posted by dorothydot View Post

          Of all the responses you got for all your threads about this one sales page, you only value this one - why? Because he wrote most of it for you?

          Lots of very knowledgeable people gave you a great deal of FREE advice.

          Each reply held value and took time and effort to compose and enter.

          I am sorry if you or anyone were offended, I thank you all for your great suggestions and helpful tips
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
        Originally Posted by barakos9 View Post

        Hello Wonderful Bill!

        This is the first time someone is helping (for free) in a way he could defiantly charge some serious money.
        I've no words to thank you for what you've done here.
        I think it's important to give from time to time..
        and that's really what you've done here.
        I think you've some great writing skills, and you idea is really assume,

        P.S
        I appreciate your help and I'll definitely use your suggestion.

        Regards,

        Barak
        Hi Barak,

        I'm glad I could help you out. I wish you great success with your website.

        All the best

        Bill Jeffels
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    Bill, much better!
    Signature
    I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    Guys,
    I asked you about the copy but not about the theme and design,
    what do you think about the colors? do you think we should use other colors?
    what about red/white or anything else?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
      Originally Posted by barakos9 View Post

      Guys,
      I asked you about the copy but not about the theme and design,
      what do you think about the colors? do you think we should use other colors?
      what about red/white or anything else?
      What have you done with all the FREE advice given so far?
      Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    So far I was still collecting information and suggestion,
    now I am on the move on 3 actions:
    1-I hired a marketing consulting service and I am going to implement their suggestion.
    2- I am going to rewrite the copy to something more positive yet strong with some nice technique I've learned..
    3-redesign the theme to Red/White familiar wedding color.

    I hope that will make me a batter sales page...
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Murdaugh
    Barakos,

    I hope I don't get banned over this, but you're really starting to piss me off.

    Every damn post you have in this forum is asking for a critique...

    You have 2 threads asking for a copywriter with an $80-$100 budget... Then you argue with experienced copywriters that there is a "good" copywriter out there who will do it for that much money.

    And THEN you go on to post "I've found someone in my budget, the copy will be great" or something like that..

    And THEN you go on to start 2 new critique threads for your sales copy. This IS NOT your personal critique forum... There's a line for asking working professionals to help for free and you passed it a long time ago.

    Every single post you have is asking for free advice. You have given NOTHING back to this forum, yet you're here, everyday, asking "what else can I do to make it better?"

    Hell, Bill practically rewrote the entire lead for you.

    Either PAY a freakin' copywriter who knows what they're doing or work with what you have... But you need to quit taking advantage of the generosity of the people in this forum.

    For one, no amount of forum critiquing is going to save a bad sales letter... Too many cooks in the kitchen.

    Secondly, you're not going to be able to hire anyone who knows what they're doing for $100.

    You want this to be a success? Invest in it.

    You want this to be a $5,000+ a month business? You're not going to get there with a $100 copywriter.

    Hire a copywriter, if you can't afford that make due with what you have until you can.

    You need to stop treating this as your personal advice forum, because it's not. You haven't contributed one single post to this place that's not asking "how can you help me?"

    Quit wasting your time and ours... Get out there and either pay someone who knows what they're doing to improve the sales letter, or work with what you've got.

    You've already taken more free advice here than you deserve. This is a community, start giving something back.

    -Scott
    Signature

    Over $30 Million In Marketing Data And A Decade Of Consistently Generating Breakthrough Results - Ask How My Unique Approach To Copy Typically Outsells Traditional Ads By Up To 29x Or More...

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    • Profile picture of the author dorothydot
      Originally Posted by scottspfd82 View Post

      Barakos,

      I hope I don't get banned over this, but you're really starting to piss me off.

      Every damn post you have in this forum is asking for a critique...

      You have 2 threads asking for a copywriter with an $80-$100 budget... Then you argue with experienced copywriters that there is a "good" copywriter out there who will do it for that much money.

      And THEN you go on to post "I've found someone in my budget, the copy will be great" or something like that..

      And THEN you go on to start 2 new critique threads for your sales copy. This IS NOT your personal critique forum... There's a line for asking working professionals to help for free and you passed it a long time ago.

      Every single post you have is asking for free advice. You have given NOTHING back to this forum, yet you're here, everyday, asking "what else can I do to make it better?"

      Hell, Bill practically rewrote the entire lead for you.

      Either PAY a freakin' copywriter who knows what they're doing or work with what you have... But you need to quit taking advantage of the generosity of the people in this forum.

      For one, no amount of forum critiquing is going to save a bad sales letter... Too many cooks in the kitchen.

      Secondly, you're not going to be able to hire anyone who knows what they're doing for $100.

      You want this to be a success? Invest in it.

      You want this to be a $5,000+ a month business? You're not going to get there with a $100 copywriter.

      Hire a copywriter, if you can't afford that make due with what you have until you can.

      You need to stop treating this as your personal advice forum, because it's not. You haven't contributed one single post to this place that's not asking "how can you help me?"

      Quit wasting your time and ours... Get out there and either pay someone who knows what they're doing to improve the sales letter, or work with what you've got.

      You've already taken more free advice here than you deserve. This is a community, start giving something back.

      -Scott
      HOORAY! You have echoed my feelings ever since this "guy" asked for my price to rewrite his homepage - and told me my quote was "More than he could afford"

      Talk about an insult! I ALWAYS cut fellow warriors a deep discount - and I offered him a DOUBLE discount.

      So back he comes to here and takes-takes-takes from the best of us for FREE - and only thanks the one who hands him a rewrite.

      Now he wants free graphics critiques as well.
      Dot

      PS - Guess I'll be banned, too. But I can only bite my tongue in half so many times.
      Signature

      "Sell the Magic of A Dream"
      www.DP-Copywriting-Service.com

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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
      Originally Posted by scottspfd82 View Post

      Barakos,

      I hope I don't get banned over this, but you're really starting to piss me off.

      Every damn post you have in this forum is asking for a critique...

      You have 2 threads asking for a copywriter with an $80-$100 budget... Then you argue with experienced copywriters that there is a "good" copywriter out there who will do it for that much money.

      And THEN you go on to post "I've found someone in my budget, the copy will be great" or something like that..

      And THEN you go on to start 2 new critique threads for your sales copy. This IS NOT your personal critique forum... There's a line for asking working professionals to help for free and you passed it a long time ago.

      Every single post you have is asking for free advice. You have given NOTHING back to this forum, yet you're here, everyday, asking "what else can I do to make it better?"

      Hell, Bill practically rewrote the entire lead for you.

      Either PAY a freakin' copywriter who knows what they're doing or work with what you have... But you need to quit taking advantage of the generosity of the people in this forum.

      For one, no amount of forum critiquing is going to save a bad sales letter... Too many cooks in the kitchen.

      Secondly, you're not going to be able to hire anyone who knows what they're doing for $100.

      You want this to be a success? Invest in it.

      You want this to be a $5,000+ a month business? You're not going to get there with a $100 copywriter.

      Hire a copywriter, if you can't afford that make due with what you have until you can.

      You need to stop treating this as your personal advice forum, because it's not. You haven't contributed one single post to this place that's not asking "how can you help me?"

      Quit wasting your time and ours... Get out there and either pay someone who knows what they're doing to improve the sales letter, or work with what you've got.

      You've already taken more free advice here than you deserve. This is a community, start giving something back.

      -Scott
      Hi Scott,

      You are absolutely right.

      Some people don't know when to give up.

      Regards,

      Bill Jeffels
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  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    People you can all relax,
    I cannot give you anything since my English is good as a nature's boy.
    And I don't do all this shit for free,
    I already hired a copywriter from Warrior for my page and as you can see it's not good enough. I also paid for another Warrior member for giving me a critique...
    I really can't see how I can contribute this forum unless hiring someone and I did hire someone from this forum. Actually two if you do not want to help then DO NOT
    However, stop vexing about it after you do.
    You all need to understand that a newbie doesn't have the amount of money you are asking for the copy , some are being more understanding and offer a batter price for
    The first job together and some does not give a damn and ask for 4-5K...
    That is about all my saving in the last 4 years...

    - Start to offer writing copy and get paid according to how good the conversation is (when the traffic is good and targeted)
    - Give us newbie a reasonable offer that we will not collapse financially if the copy will not sell as well as you believed

    Try to picture this , a newbie open a new business , the budget he have is 5K, if he'll succeed GREAT!
    If he'll spend is money for one, only one copy, no design, no domain, no hosting, no articles, no PPC, no links building ...nothing!
    The entire budget will go for one copy; he is becoming dependable on this one and only copy, to be or not to be situation...
    That is not a good situation to be in....not for the writer and of course for the newbie.
    Now you can say...save more money then come back ...bla bla bla
    That is not the reality people ...sometimes you need to look beyond you computer and understand things are not always simple as you may think.

    P.S
    I am sorry if I hurt someone , I thank you all for helping and critiquing my copy

    Thanks,

    Barak
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by barakos9 View Post

      You all need to understand that a newbie doesn't have the amount of money you are asking for the copy , some are being more understanding and offer a batter price for
      The first job together and some does not give a damn and ask for 4-5K...
      That is about all my saving in the last 4 years...
      Your financial position is not the same for every other newbie out there. There are some newbies who go online with strong financial resources at their disposal. They just haven't acquired the skills to do many parts of an online business yet so they pay other people to do it for them.

      The reason why very skilled copywriters charge $4K or more is because they feel their professional help is worth that amount of money... and enough clients agree to pay their asking price.

      - Start to offer writing copy and get paid according to how good the conversation is (when the traffic is good and targeted)
      - Give us newbie a reasonable offer that we will not collapse financially if the copy will not sell as well as you believed

      Try to picture this , a newbie open a new business , the budget he have is 5K, if he'll succeed GREAT!
      If he'll spend is money for one, only one copy, no design, no domain, no hosting, no articles, no PPC, no links building ...nothing!
      The entire budget will go for one copy; he is becoming dependable on this one and only copy, to be or not to be situation...
      That is not a good situation to be in....not for the writer and of course for the newbie.
      Now you can say...save more money then come back ...bla bla bla
      That is not the reality people ...sometimes you need to look beyond you computer and understand things are not always simple as you may think.
      As Scott mentioned, you've started multiple threads asking for free advice or basically asking everyone to rewrite your copy for free. Then in another thread you complain about what copywriters are quoting you... the same people you want to help you for free.

      Let me tell you why I do very little free critiques: Free does not put clothes on my children, feed them, or pay my mortgage.

      My professional advice makes my clients more money so I'm within my rights to be compensated financially for my help.

      If you truly want other Warriors to respect you then you need to do what many of them, including me, did when they started online: They learned how to write their own copy. They learned how to do their own graphics and use other free resources.

      When I started online in 2004, I had to make a deal with my wife in order to get her blessing (then). I had to agree that my online business had to pay for everything itself. No live savings... no family checkbook... no credit cards. In other words, I used bootstrapping to grow the business. I wrote my own copy (still do). I used free tools and resources. As my business grew, I reinvest the monies made from sales and upgraded the tools I used for my business.

      It didn't happen overnight but I grew my info-product business into its own 4 figure monthly income stream which is separate from my copywriting and consulting business efforts.

      Now if I need to spend some money on my business, my wife fully support the decision because I've proven to her I can do it without draining the family checkbook... running the family credit cards... or creating a financial hardship on our family. To this day, I still "save up" to pay for things in my business.

      Look, every successful online marketer that I know who makes 6 figures or more knows how to write their own copy. They may not write as well as a professional copywriter but in a pinch, they can write a promotional email or put up a sales page that is fairly good. If the copywriter that they normally use can't write the copy to meet a new, short deadline then the successful marketer just does it themself. Then later on, they have the option of getting it rewritten.

      As business philosopher Jim Rohn has said, "It's not too expensive. You just can't afford it". So find a way to build your business so you CAN afford it. Instead of complaining and asking for continual handouts, make a plan and put it into action.

      That's a proven way to success. That's the way many Warriors have created their own successful online businesses. Many Warriors have taken a skill that they already had or learned and turned it into a paid service like graphic design, programming, script installers, WordPress modders, article writers, and much more services. Offering a professional service is a quick way to bring in needed monies.

      P.S
      I am sorry if I hurt someone , I thank you all for helping and critiquing my copy

      Thanks,

      Barak
      You're welcome. Best of luck to you.

      Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author avani
        Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

        When I started online in 2004, I had to make a deal with my wife in order to get her blessing (then). I had to agree that my online business had to pay for everything itself. No live savings... no family checkbook... no credit cards. In other words, I used bootstrapping to grow the business. I wrote my own copy (still do). I used free tools and resources. As my business grew, I reinvest the monies made from sales and upgraded the tools I used for my business.

        It didn't happen overnight but I grew my info-product business into its own 4 figure monthly income stream which is separate from my copywriting and consulting business efforts.
        Excuse my going off-topic, but I just have to point out that this is the most inspiring thing I read today!

        I find myself exactly in these shoes at the moment (okay, so I'm a kid in real life and I've promised that any "entrepreneurship stunts" that I get into will fund themselves, and I start out with a $0 budget). I don't have tons of experience yet, but I've figured that I can start out with nothing and still get somewhere. For example, the first investment I wanted to make was in hosting, and I picked up a couple of freelance projects that paid for it. These projects were for tweaking phpBB into doing something, and an article writing project. No, I didn't know any phpBB, but I spent a couple of nights glossing over their docs and figured it out! (Okay, so I had learnt some PHP programming and practiced on a free ad-supported host, that certainly helped with the confidence.)

        I've come a fair distance since, and while I'm still quite a newbie, I'm someone with the confidence that I can make it happen, as long as I have a desire to learn, and the willingness to follow it up, along with the self-respect to create the funds that I know I'll need to invest (i.e., a low budget does not make sense as an excuse - you can earn that money with no budget at all and put it back in your business. Yes, it takes time, and patience, and plenty of work, but it can be done!).

        @Mike: Your post is just so reassuring. Makes me feel like I'm on track; I'm glad I came across it!

        @barakos9: I wouldn't mind spending some time on a critique of your sales page, but I have gone over this thread and I think it's fair to say that I'll be happy to look at a revised sales letter that actually incorporates some of the great suggestions here. Surely there's more than plenty advice floating around, and personally I would - at this stage - need evidence for the fact that you're actually listening up and using the advice before I get into giving any myself. If you don't want to post back a revision, of course, that's fine - it's just that I would have no comments for you.

        In any case, good luck!
        Signature
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        Wouldn't you like it to blend in?*

        *Send me a PM for details.
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        • Profile picture of the author dorothydot
          Avani,

          You sound like you have what it takes to succeed! Good for you - I wish you the best of luck.

          I for one would be willing to help you however I can. If you believe in hard work and learn-learn-learning, you will succeed.

          Just remember this: If you don't quit, you can't fail - Peter Bowerman

          Dot
          Signature

          "Sell the Magic of A Dream"
          www.DP-Copywriting-Service.com

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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
      Originally Posted by barakos9 View Post

      People you can all relax,
      I cannot give you anything since my English is good as a nature's boy.
      And I don't do all this shit for free,
      I already hired a copywriter from Warrior for my page and as you can see it's not good enough. I also paid for another Warrior member for giving me a critique...
      I really can't see how I can contribute this forum unless hiring someone and I did hire someone from this forum. Actually two if you do not want to help then DO NOT
      However, stop vexing about it after you do.
      You all need to understand that a newbie doesn't have the amount of money you are asking for the copy , some are being more understanding and offer a batter price for
      The first job together and some does not give a damn and ask for 4-5K...
      That is about all my saving in the last 4 years...

      - Start to offer writing copy and get paid according to how good the conversation is (when the traffic is good and targeted)
      - Give us newbie a reasonable offer that we will not collapse financially if the copy will not sell as well as you believed

      Try to picture this , a newbie open a new business , the budget he have is 5K, if he'll succeed GREAT!
      If he'll spend is money for one, only one copy, no design, no domain, no hosting, no articles, no PPC, no links building ...nothing!
      The entire budget will go for one copy; he is becoming dependable on this one and only copy, to be or not to be situation...
      That is not a good situation to be in....not for the writer and of course for the newbie.
      Now you can say...save more money then come back ...bla bla bla
      That is not the reality people ...sometimes you need to look beyond you computer and understand things are not always simple as you may think.

      P.S
      I am sorry if I hurt someone , I thank you all for helping and critiquing my copy

      Thanks,

      Barak
      Have some damn respect for people that have helped you.

      First, I am usaully a positive person , and I like to help people succeed... I sincerely do... but you've crossed a few boundaries.

      "People you can all relax", give me a break.

      "I already hired a copywriter from warrior for my page and as you can see it not good enough"... you're right it sucks.

      "The first job and no one does not give a damn and ask 4-5k"... what are you going to do next call up John Carlton and bitch him out for asking 40k plus 5%.

      "Start to offer copy and get paid according to how good the conversion is". No. People have family's to feed, houses to pay for and if somone writes you killer copy and you screw up the process after you get it, that's your problem.

      "Try to picture this, a newbie open a new business, the budget he have is 5k, if he'll succeed GREAT". Again, no, try to picture this, people have a spouse, kids, houses to pay for vehicles they need to put gas in, groceries to buy... you don't want to pay it, fine.

      But don't bitch to people that have spent year's of their lives to master a craft they love and have spent thousands upon thousand of dollars to do so.

      Regards,

      Bill Jeffels
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  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    I can't agree and I remind you all that I did hire people from this forum as for writing by my self ...no way ! I'm not America and my English sucks.
    I do appreciate your work and I do think you need to get paid for what you're doing.
    I'm just saying if you don't want to help then don't, but please don't weep about that after you do. I thank your help was a great added value for my copy and I again thank you all for spending the time into it.

    Bill,
    I do not know why you are so furious.
    "Hi Barak,
    I am glad I could help you out. I wish you great success with your website.
    All the best
    Bill Jeffels"

    What changed in the last 24 hours?

    Anyway, I am learning and when you learn you are doing mistakes.
    My mistake was to come to this forum and start asking people to write my copy. I just cannot afford it right now.

    P.S

    Thanks again and I hope you can understand.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
      Originally Posted by barakos9 View Post

      I can't agree and I remind you all that I did hire people from this forum as for writing by my self ...no way ! I'm not America and my English sucks.
      I do appreciate your work and I do think you need to get paid for what you're doing.
      I'm just saying if you don't want to help then don't, but please don't weep about that after you do. I thank your help was a great added value for my copy and I again thank you all for spending the time into it.

      Bill,
      I do not know why you are so furious.
      "Hi Barak,
      I am glad I could help you out. I wish you great success with your website.
      All the best
      Bill Jeffels"

      What changed in the last 24 hours?

      Anyway, I am learning and when you learn you are doing mistakes.
      My mistake was to come to this forum and start asking people to write my copy. I just cannot afford it right now.

      P.S

      Thanks again and I hope you can understand.
      Why am I so furious?

      Well, I'll tell you something, I love to see entrepreneurs start a business, succeed and achieve their goals. I've always been like that and I also love to help people.

      In my business I've gone above and beyond "my role" of what I'm obligated to do, and I did it because I knew that's what needed to be done so that my client would be successful.

      But, when someone shows blatant disrespect and does not appreciate what people have done for them, nice guy time is done, over.

      And I'm not going to take crap from anybody, I've studied copywriting to damn long to do that.

      However, even though we have had are differences... I really do hope you succeed in what you are trying to do. But, think about treating the people that try to help you like you would want to be treated. A little appreciation will go a long way.

      Regards,

      Bill Jeffels
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  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    Truth is Bill if that's call not to appreciate what you've done...I really don't know how to thank you...
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  • Profile picture of the author retz
    (regarding the web page)
    Hi Barakos,

    Let me give you my impressions as a woman, an artist, a writer, and a person who has bought many ebooks online.

    First, I hate the dark purple.

    Second, I would not click on anything called a "bride bible" because I don't like to mix any type of religious reference with sales unless the religion is an integral part of the product.

    When I read the first few lines of the "story," I think the "bride" is an idiot, and she loses all credibility with me. Thus, I would click out within 5-10 seconds.

    If you want to tell a "disaster" story, you need to make it funny. Anyone who can turn a disaster into comedy will get much more attention, and the reader will think, ok, she has a good sense of humor, maybe she's really going to help me prevent a disaster.

    I agree with many above that suggested you put the good info that's revealed in the book on top: money saving, planning tips, diet ideas, etc.

    Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author retz
      Here are some ideas of how to make the disaster story a little more interesting:

      Dear Bride To Be,

      This was it: the day I had dreamed of since I was a little girl. My mother was in tears, my bridesmaids were in tears, I was in tears - and we hadn't even arrived at the church yet.

      My beautiful dress didn't fit. No amount of tugging or holding my breath worked. I had to pin it closed. Thank goodness the veil covered my back. I spent the reception with my back to the wall, avoiding hugs. You don't even want to know what happened on the dance floor.

      My complexion was a mess, thanks to stress and a crazy, fast-food diet.

      My groom forgot his vows. Maybe I should have rented a teleprompter.

      My finances were a disaster. I dreaded telling my new husband, "Guess what, Honey? We're in debt to the tune of ten thousand dollars!" How romantic.

      Don't let this happen to you!
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      • Profile picture of the author barakos9
        Originally Posted by retz View Post

        Here are some ideas of how to make the disaster story a little more interesting:

        Dear Bride To Be,

        This was it: the day I had dreamed of since I was a little girl. My mother was in tears, my bridesmaids were in tears, I was in tears - and we hadn't even arrived at the church yet.

        My beautiful dress didn't fit. No amount of tugging or holding my breath worked. I had to pin it closed. Thank goodness the veil covered my back. I spent the reception with my back to the wall, avoiding hugs. You don't even want to know what happened on the dance floor.

        My complexion was a mess, thanks to stress and a crazy, fast-food diet.

        My groom forgot his vows. Maybe I should have rented a teleprompter.

        My finances were a disaster. I dreaded telling my new husband, "Guess what, Honey? We're in debt to the tune of ten thousand dollars!" How romantic.

        Don't let this happen to you!


        Hello,

        Thank you very much for your honest opinion,

        I think that next time I'm starting a new sales page the writer
        I'll pick will be the most close thing to the customer I'm referring my product.
        That one thing I learned for sure,
        Second , I'm going to change the all theme ( what do you think about red / white ) combination ?

        As for the book name and domain I'm not sure if that's worth changing.
        It is not bride bible its "The Bible Of The Bride" and the slogan clear things.
        However, thanks for the advice.

        As for the copy , like you say the story isn't so good and people really don't like it , hence the amazingly bad bounce rate.

        I'm going to change the concept to what Bill suggested ( thank you bill )
        with an happy , success wedding and the steps to get it.
        Some great benefits etc,

        P.S

        Nice to have your comments, and I think I learned an important lesson...
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        • Profile picture of the author dorothydot
          "I learned an important lesson"

          If you honestly have, then all this has been worthwhile.

          Perhaps you could tell us the lesson you've learned so others can benefit? In your own words, I mean.

          Most people on this Forum honestly care and want to help.

          But none of us are here to be used.
          Dot
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          "Sell the Magic of A Dream"
          www.DP-Copywriting-Service.com

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  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    The lesson I have learned is that you need to focus on your end users (customer)
    when creating a new sales page and picking the writer accordingly.
    For example, if you are selling forex robot, find a writer that knows the niche from the customer point of view, he can bring the customer problem and answer their problems (because he experienced the same issues while working in that industry....

    Another thing is, it's an important thing to invest in a good copy writer
    however , good not always has to be expensive...
    I know you "big" guys do not like
    What I am saying right now, but an expensive writer does not necessarily
    Deliver you Good results, as I said earlier find a decent writer that knows about your product and niche,
    And had some experience as a customer at the same niche ...and you'll have your perfect copy on the other hand if you find a really but really good writer and therefore a really expensive one without having a deep understanding of your products as
    What are the problems and what are the most needed solutions...well then your copy will be ok,
    Not more then that, even the most deeply research will never imitate a real customer feelings and requirements.

    So this is the formula for a waining copy if you ask me :

    * Find a Decent (doesn't have to be expensive) writer that knows the industry you're trying to sell to from the ground.


    However, no doubt, the copywriter is the MOST important thing when starting up a new sales page.


    Thanks,


    Barak
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    • Profile picture of the author dorothydot
      Very well put. I'm proud of you.

      I'll add one other item to your lessons-learned:
      Always check out the writing style of any copywriter you're thinking of hiring. Be sure their style mirrors your own approach. An in-your-face writer is not quite what you'd like for writing about planning a wedding, for example.

      Now, Barakos, I think you've learned enough to help some other beginners, haven't you?

      Time for you to discover how really great it feels to help people who are honestly trying to learn their craft.

      Hope this helps,
      Dot
      Signature

      "Sell the Magic of A Dream"
      www.DP-Copywriting-Service.com

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  • Profile picture of the author barakos9
    Thank you Dot,
    I do love to help people but you need to understand that my English
    Is really bad. and starting to guide others sound like a joke to me.
    But you have a point , giving is really important but you need to make sure you're not hurting someone with wrote / unprofessional tips
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    You haven't really learned anything, have you?

    Keep trying to get a "cheap" writer to write you good copy... your chances are about the same as winning the lottery.

    I've discussed this so many times now... and people will keep arguing semantics and saying it "could" happen.

    Sure, and I "could" get struck by lightning... by I don't think the odds are particularly good.

    Either spend real money on a real copywriter... or spend a few years learning to do it yourself.

    And, if English isn't your first language, I don't like your chances (the only good writer I've seen who is ESL is Kevin Lam).

    -Dan

    EDIT: Mike Humphreys sent me a PM and mentioned several amazing copywriters who are ESL... Including Michel Fortin (holy crap!!!), Dean Dhuli, Ray Edwards, and others.

    Personally, I don't think I would ever be good enough at a second language to write copy in it... but obviously it's doable. Having said that, it's years of work to learn to write copy in your OWN language... I can only assume adding another language would be an even bigger hurdle.
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    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author EmanuelR
      Hi barakos9, have you ever heard of the saying? "you get what you pay for" If you are looking for a cheap copywriter based on the price then you are going to end up paying more in the long run.

      Don't make that mistake - Think of it as a long term investment. If the copy is well written you will see positive results = money into your bank account and a 24/7 salesman working hard for you while you sleep. That's what a great sales letter do for you.

      I wish you great success.
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    • Profile picture of the author MichelFortin
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      EDIT: Mike Humphreys sent me a PM and mentioned several amazing copywriters who are ESL... Including Michel Fortin (holy crap!!!)...
      LOL! Sorry, I know I'm off-topic, but this comment made me grin... and blush... at the same time.

      Indeed, I'm French-Canadian (un vrai-de-vrai Qu├ębecois). Jack Humphrey's wife is Cajun, so when I speak to her in French, she smiles and says, "You sound just like my grandfather!" LOL!

      Bottom line, barakos9, here are a couple of things to keep in mind...

      I have found, in my testing, that most bounce rates are actually NOT caused by the copy (not the message, anyway), but two other, different things:
      1. Targeting your audience, who they are, and how it finds your website.
      2. And congruency between your appeal and the audience's mindset.
      For #1, a lot of people will say, "But I use PPC and target highly relevant keywords." Not so. I imagine that your keywords may be related to the wedding planning industry, but not necessarily to brides- or grooms-to-be.

      The problem, I gather, is that you're probably betting on words revolving around "weddings" (too generic) and "wedding planning" (solution-driven, not problem-driven).

      I'm no PPC expert, but my thinking is, people don't look for solutions by typing them into search engines. They are likely looking for solutions by typing in the problem, or symptom, instead.

      What about "wedding tips," "wedding rehearsals," "reception checklist," "wedding anxiety," "wedding blunders," etc. These are just guesses, and you'll need to research these yourself. (I'll come back to why in a moment.)

      I didn't take a look at your copy, so my opinion here may be a tad off.

      But just from what I've read on this thread, I also figure that people are looking for free information or help. Maybe content focused on helping the soon-to-be couple with actual, practical tips, followed by a transition to a product that continues or complements these tips.

      In other words, try testing campaigns with highly specific keywords, especially keywords surrounding problems or symptoms (not solutions). And give them the information they're looking for, leading to the sale.

      Sure, search volume for terms related to the problem people experienced may not be as large as those with keywords that included the solution, and traffic levels may still not be extravagant.

      But the chances are high they will bring in more quality traffic because seekers will have an affinity with the more targeted search results, as well as bring in more targeted traffic to boot.

      (This is also part of #2, "congruency.")

      This reminded me of something brilliant my friend and top copywriter David Garfinkel once said. He said to write copy (or in this case, to find targeted keywords), you need to know three critical things:
      1. Who is my client,
      2. What is their problem, and
      3. How are they talking about it?
      Knowing the first one is crucial. A lot of people do market research only to gauge demand, without ever knowing who their client really is, much less how they perceive, talk about, and seek out solutions for, their problem.

      The third question in particular is the kicker!

      People looking for your services or infoproduct may be typing something completely different in the search engines, and if you ignore this you're going to miss out on a ton of higher quality traffic.

      Next is congruency. And it's a biggie.

      Congruency is by far one of the biggest problems in copy. Very often, we write copy around what we "think" our audience wants or will be interested in, when that's far from being the case in many instances.

      Congruency means, the message matches the mindset of the market. It continues the flow, so to speak, of what's going on in their minds. In copy, this is called the "appeal."

      Your copy needs to have the right story targeted to the right audience, and they must gel together in a smooth and logical transition. When people who are in a certain frame of mind hit your website, that site must fit and flow from within that mindframe.

      If not, your bounce rate will show it. In spades.

      I hope this helps, and good luck to you.
      Signature
      Michel Fortin
      We Solve Inbox Overwhelm
      CEO, Workaholics4Hire.com, Inc.
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      • Profile picture of the author Collette
        Originally Posted by MichelFortin View Post

        ...most bounce rates are actually NOT caused by the copy (not the message, anyway), but two other, different things:

        1. How your audience is targeted and find your website.
        2. And congruency between the appeal and the audience.

        ...you need to know three critical things:
        1. Who is my client,
        2. What is their problem, and
        3. How are they talking about it?
        Knowing the first one is crucial. A lot of people do market research only to gauge demand, without ever knowing who their client really is, much less how they perceive, talk about, and seek out solutions for, their problem.

        The third question in particular is the kicker!

        ...Congruency is by far one of the biggest problems in copy. Very often, we write copy around what we "think" our audience wants or will be interested in, when that's far from being the case, in many instances.

        Congruency means, the message matches the mindset of the market. It continues the flow, so to speak, of what's going on in their minds. In copy, this is called the "appeal."

        ...
        And it's amazing how many "critique wanted" posters fight this simple truth. Instead, they insist they ARE giving people what they want.

        Even though the numbers tell them otherwise.

        Pure gold in Michel's post, people.

        Print it. Clip it. Read it three times before breakfast.

        And then, fergawdssake, actually do something with the advice.
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