How is that a sleazy tactic and not a sleazy market?

I mean, if certain guys WANT to get laid in 3 hours (surprise surprise) then the line isn't a "tactic" tricking men into something.

If you are selling to a different group (guys who aren't looking to get laid) (whaaaaat), then you're not competing, you're in a different niche.
Oh, like Double Your Dating...

Btw, 0 x 2 = 0

It all depends on what you mean when you talk about 'sleazy' tactics. You can still appeal to the market without making false promises and creating unrealistic expectations.

If you're referring to sleazy though as mentioning sex or getting laid with different women then you're going to have a tougher time competing.

At the moment your sales page is very sterile. You're not getting to the core of what guys really want. Tinder is a hook-up app. Guys want to use it to get laid, plain and simple. You keep referring to meeting girls and having dates, but this is a disconnect to what they're actually looking for. Sure, some guys want to use it to date, but the end goal is they want to get women into bed. Does your product address this? It doesn't look like it.

I don't think showing your contents page is helping. First thing I see is 47 pages, so immediately I'm thinking this is $1 a page, for what seems like pretty standard information. It just confirms that the whole process ends with setting up a date, there's nothing about how to go from Tinder to the bedroom.

Your price point seems fairly high for this niche considering what other people are offering. Other products might have lengthy video or audio footage, in-field clips, bonus books etc. for the same price or less than your product. A Facebook group, that is likely to have little or no activity, is not much of a bonus. There is another book competing against you that is nearly double the length and nearly half the price. Just saying.

You haven't done a good enough job of establishing credibility and creating interest to the point where buying your book is a no-brainer. You haven't even told people who you are.

You're missing a lot of the fundamentals of copywriting here.

Another issue could be the source of your traffic. Where are people coming from and what are they expecting to see?

Overall needs a lot of work, good luck with it though.

Will guys pay $47 for a guide to using the Tinder app? It would want to be DYNAMITE advice wouldn't it? It would want to get results. I would need to be convinced thats it's worth the money... that it works. And even if it did... with a 60 Day Refund period... in that market I think you would be getting a lot of refunds.

Nonwithstanding that... there's no dirty great big smack-you-in-the-face hook is there? Your head is this -

The Simplest, Most Effective Way to DOUBLE (Maybe Triple) Your Success On Tinder TONIGHT



The “Insider” Techniques Average Guys Are Using To Get WAY More Matches, Messages, and Dates

Note the "maybe". Why on earth would you put a "doubt" word in the headline? You're just setting yourself up for failure right there.

You'd be better off doing a Vin Montello-style headline.

"Butt-ugly guy with god-awful halitosis and a stutter stumbles across a Tinder Hack that has him hooking up with more Drop-Dead Gorgeous 10s than you can shake a stick at".

And guy... you haven't begun to convince me and yet you stick a buy button in my face from the off. Which makes me think you don't want to help me hook-up with girls - you just want my money.

And white on black...for a dating site? Don't think so.

There's lots of other stuff - where's your mug shot for starters - why should I trust you? - but I get paid good money for this kind of advice.

That whole "rockstar" thing has been done to death.

I think your page looks pretty good and I'm glad you're trying to take the "high road" when it comes to marketing your product. In fact, why not make this a part of your pitch. For example, "Are you sick of dating help products that make outrageous claims like, 'Get laid in 3 hours'? We can't make that guarantee, BUT we can help you to optimize your chances of finding the ideal partner." Or something like that...

As you've gathered when you get into this niche you have to appeal to the more primal desires.

You can do this - without being sleazy.

Word changes can help - "laid" and "sex" can be "red - hot lust and passion" etc. etc.

Pictures can show what you mean without actually saying it.

One reason why much of this niche is seen as sleazy...

It's the chaps who are prowling around trying to get the lassies into the sack.

You can reposition this (yea, good word steve).

And make it seem by using your "system" - the lassies will want to drag the chaps into the sack.


Steve

Your copy and tone will differ depending on whether you're getting outsiders from nothing to something ("losers", as Gordon described) or getting insiders from good/decent to better (Opportunity seekers. Sex, like cash is a currency)

I agree that the "stinking of perspiration, living in mom's basement, virgin" into "nailing runway models" is very dishonest. But the niche is saturated to the point where claims are getting louder.

Or, you can take on a more earnest tone. Personally I like how GLL conveys a nuanced view of who he is, and I think his "normalcy" juxtaposes well with the "hype" he sells and endears him to his target audience. Even his name is self effacing. I've seen a bunch of his pickup videos, and he deliberately shows the ones that don't go well. And the ones that go well are often nothing fancy. He can inspire both the "power lifters/risk takers" and the basement dwellers to get off their asses.

About Good Looking Loser - Updated Winter 2013 - Good Looking Loser

"I'm a successful guy, but I've had deep internal struggles like you, and my stuff can help you conquer yours"

Thank you everyone who has chimed-in so far.... I definitely feel like I just got an education in the reality of the online dating market.

It seems that the higher-end clients that are coming to me in-person are a completely different animal from the ones that are buying online.

I'm going to re-work my sales copy (because it's weak at best) and to try and connect more effectively with the people landing on my page. If that doesn't work, I may consider taking my name off it and trying a more aggressive approach.

Though, when I see David Wygant's products (and the marketing around them) I do hold out hope that I can sell in a way I'm proud to put my name/face on.

Thanks again guys --- I'm going to implement the suggestions you've all given and see if I can make something happen.

Why not go sleazy? I think trying to "teach" a guy how to get laid is inherently sleazy. After all, no one can really help these guys but themselves, imho. You can't honestly be trying to help them, you're really just exploiting their vulnerability to separate them from their $$. ...So if sleaze works, sleaze it up!

I dont like the word sleaze... Sounds like something out of that awful movie swingers...

anywho, I think the overall tone was fine but like others said the verbiage was a lil off.

personally I was in the dating niche for a while and guys really just want to get laid. Granted there are some guys who want to find their soul mate, but those guys dont usually buy dating products online. The desperate guys buy.

sell to the desperate, then educate (enlighten) them with your product.

-Jon

I don't know. Depends on what your version of "sleazy" is.

Congrats on your new product - looks like you've done a nice job with it. Your offer needs some work though... Maybe for $7 but not $47. My philosophy for stuff like this, as in selling via direct response (not on Amazon, or for that matter, for use with any business model under the sun) is MORE. As in: more content, more value building, and more entertainment - with a better thought out *unique* value proposition. In other words, this would work nicely as a compliment to a video sales letter

If you want to increase your conversions dramatically, that's how.

i've been in the niche since almost the beginning... selling for almost 10 years.

you have a very niche product.... its literally like 3 levels deep... getting girls > getting girls online > getting girls online only using tinder.

you've limited the pool of potential people you can sell to bigtime.

so don't expect this to blow up massively.

and the copy on the page needs a complete overhaul.

[DELETED]

Hi everyone.

Thanks again for taking the time to post in this thread. I've read all your comments and I'm going to try to benefit from the experience and input that each of you has offered.

To give an update-- based on everything I've read here and the PM's I received, I'm creating a completely new page. There will be a short video at the very top followed by a more traditional long-form sales letter underneath. I'll be working with an actual copywriter to make sure the new wording/tone actually connects with the wants of my target audience.

I'm hoping that will be a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately, you've got two challenges:

1. As you've pointed out, because of your competition, it won't work for the broad market.

2. The copy you've got is not targeted enough for a specific market.

To make it work with the integrity you want, you've got to target your audience.

- Rick Duris

PS: When I say target the audience, I mean who do you want to sell:

• Young guys who just wanna get laid on a regular basis. No strings.
• Guys who wanna be pick up artists.
• Guys who who are struggling because they perceive themselves to be lacking in a specific thing (introverted, broke, less than attractive, not well endowed, not cool, etc.)
• Guys looking for love, time to settle down, etc.
• Guys who are middle-aged, looking for a second shot at youth.
• Guys who hit the porn sites and are used to dirty words.
• Older, rich guys who want some companionship, escort, etc.
• Guys who are married and want some action.

Are you starting to get the picture? I don't know how many exactly, but there are lots of subniches.

If you took a look at all the dating sites out there, that will give you a clue.

[DELETED]

[DELETED]

[DELETED]