45 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
45 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

College...sick of it

by Eric X
34 replies
How much or how little will college help a copywriter's career? Both from a skills and opportunity regard.

I have been entertaining the idea of dropping out of school to devote more time to developing my craft.
#collegesick
  • Profile picture of the author NRabosa
    Originally Posted by Eric X View Post

    How much or how little will college help a copywriter's career? Both from a skills and opportunity regard.

    I have been entertaining the idea of dropping out of school to devote more time to developing my craft.
    How much will college help in a copywriter's career:

    Writing is a continuous learning process, and what better way to do this is inside college where a mentor can guide you. There is no substitute for that; You are graded accordingly by your merits. In life, you get what you deserve. There is no gauge for achievement or failure other than an empty pocket.

    A lot of people see higher education as a privilege. You are very lucky to be studying when others would love to be even on campus grounds, just that they don't have the money for tuition and everything. If only they learned grammar and composition in college they would have that opportunity to be a good copywriter than someone who just drops out thinking that what they know is already enough. You can do better than that.


    If you can't see this truth then you don't have the grit to survive in real life with an attitude of quitting. College is a controlled environment, but who says you cannot experiment and reinvent yourself while being there? You wouldn't go out there in the open without having fully developed your writing skills, am I right?

    Hope this helps you,
    NRabosa
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9401377].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    Originally Posted by Eric X View Post

    How much or how little will college help a copywriter's career? Both from a skills and opportunity regard.

    I have been entertaining the idea of dropping out of school to devote more time to developing my craft.
    Stay in school. Get an engineering degree and specialize in technical copywriting. Or study biomed and specialize in pharmaceutical copywriting. Both those are exclusive clubs, something general copywriting is not (and becoming less so as we speak). Both are also in demand and have a high bar to entry.

    You can even go for a finance degree and specialize in financial copywriting. You'll also know what to do when (and if) you start stacking that cash.

    Don't quit and end up competing with people in Mumbai to write clickbank offers on elance. Nrabosa is right -- college is a privilege. Don't waste it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9401401].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      It depends on what you're studying.

      Will it help you write high-converting sales copy? Based on my two college degrees, I'd say no. I had to unlearn a lot of the college-level language I picked up.

      Will it help you write specialized niche copy? Quite possibly. I have two health-related degrees so when I have to write health-related copy, I have a large amount of familiarity with the material and I picked up the new stuff very quickly. I know a few other copywriters with financial background (college or work experience) which made it very easy for them to move into financial/investment copywriting.

      In terms of quitting college... I don't recommend it. No one can ever take away your college degree. Depending on what your future holds, the degree may open some additional doors for you. And at the very least, if copywriting turns out to be the wrong career choice for you (or you opt to do it part-time), your degree can help you secure a job.

      Best of luck,

      Mike
      Signature
      Kickstart Your Copywriting Business: How To Get Loads of New Clients FAST!

      Kick-A$$ Eight-Figure Producing Copywriting Gun For Hire | Marketing & Copywriting Blog
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9401527].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

      Stay in school. Get an engineering degree and specialize in technical copywriting. Or study biomed and specialize in pharmaceutical copywriting. Both those are exclusive clubs, something general copywriting is not (and becoming less so as we speak). Both are also in demand and have a high bar to entry.

      You can even go for a finance degree and specialize in financial copywriting. You'll also know what to do when (and if) you start stacking that cash.

      Don't quit and end up competing with people in Mumbai to write clickbank offers on elance. Nrabosa is right -- college is a privilege. Don't waste it.
      I really strenuously disagree with you constantly advising others to take a path that you either took or wished you took. I see you giving this exact same advice to others with questions about college, and while you have a right to your opinion, what works for you is not a one size fits all solution.

      That said, OP: I have three degrees. Including a master's from a very well known school. Personal opinion? The student loan debt load wasn't really worth it, and if I had my druthers (and if I'd known this was what I wanted to do - kind of impossible to predict what will stick at that age though), I wouldn't be inclined to do it again.

      I also feel like I had to unlearn a lot of bad writing habits that they beat into your brain in college. Plus, I prefer being paid to learn over paying others to learn.

      But here's the other side of the coin: even though I despise the debt load I took on to complete my three degrees, the pedigree sure gets people talking. I've worked at some amazing companies and had awesome opportunities with alumni, all because I slogged through the same materials they did.

      So no, I don't think it's absolutely mandatory, but there are definitely benefits. Only you can decide what works best for you, though.
      Signature

      Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9403111].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author splitTest
        Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

        I really strenuously disagree with you constantly advising others to take a path that you either took or wished you took. I see you giving this exact same advice to others with questions about college, and while you have a right to your opinion, what works for you is not a one size fits all solution.
        yeah, but I always reason it through too. He asked for advice. It's not like I'm evangelizing.

        What I say there makes sense for most. A college degree is a damn good backup in case you want to change careers at some point. Getting specialty knowledge via college also makes a whole lot of sense, even if copywriting is your goal.

        Life is about options. You want to have a wealth of options. A college degree opens that up. Ask any of the middle-aged people you see working at burger king with few other options if a college degree might've helped.

        College is not about "one size fits all" at all -- it's about not cornering yourself in fact.

        Your perspective, Angie, is unique -- the "one size" that's certainly not applicable broadly. You piled up a whole lot of debt earning a multiple degrees you didn't need. The OP doesn't have to pile up a whole lot of debt. Perhaps he's in a less expensive college. Maybe he won't go for three degrees. Perhaps he'll go for a single degree that's applicable to his career goal -- one that also expands his horizons and options.

        Your perspective in fact doesn't apply for most people considering college. Your "one size" doesn't fit all.

        And what's this stuff about "unlearning" writing skills they teach you in college? If you're a decent writer "unlearning" is easy. "Unlearning" isn't hard at all, whatever field you're in. Learning is harder than unlearning.

        I give the same advice to people weighing the value of college education because it's the same subject. And it makes sense to get a college education if you can, unless you want your best fallback options to include stuff like Burger King.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9403660].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Tim R
          Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

          What I say there makes sense for most. A college degree is a damn good backup in case you want to change careers at some point. Getting specialty knowledge via college also makes a whole lot of sense, even if copywriting is your goal.
          I don't think it's the fact that you advocate college, more that you seem to want to steer everybody into engineering or pharmaceuticals without having any idea what they might be interested in. If the person has zero interest in the subject why pursue it with the intention to either work in the field or be a copywriter who specializes in the subject?

          If the goal is to be a copywriter, it's a big investment of time and money to get a degree in a subject you don't like on the off chance that you may be able to make a living writing about it.

          Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

          And what's this stuff about "unlearning" writing skills they teach you in college? If you're a decent writer "unlearning" is easy. "Unlearning" isn't hard at all, whatever field you're in. Learning is harder than unlearning.
          Have to disagree with you here, unlearning something is not easy if you've been doing it long enough.

          A lot of writers who are successful in their own field struggle with writing copy simply because they can't just let go of what they've learned. People aren't very good at breaking habits that they've formed over time.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9403771].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author splitTest
            Look -- obviously the OP is going to do what the OP wants to do. There's nothing more wrong with me airing my perspective than you airing yours. You guys are getting emotional and insulted and whatever as if I shouldn't have wrote what I wrote. It's as easy to say that you shouldn't have wrote what you wrote.

            Do you even know the meaning of "discussion forum"?

            And regarding "unlearning" -- if you want to make it as a copywriter, you should at least have enough versatility that "unlearning" the style of writing they taught you in school is no big deal. After all, you're going to have to actually learn things too. Learning is harder than "unlearning."

            Having to "unlearn" a writing style is a foolish reason to skip college.

            But anyway, you guys are arguing. You're trying to win an argument (complete with "emotional blackmail" ) instead of have a discussion. ... So I'll leave you to it.

            The OP has my opinion and yours, just as it's supposed to be on an open forum, and obviously he's going to take the path that he wants to, whatever he's advised.

            I say STAY IN SCHOOL. College experience is valuable. The degree is valuable. And if you focus your studies on the right things, college can help you with your copywriting career.

            That's my advice. Like it or lump it.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9403931].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
              Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

              Look -- obviously the OP is going to do what the OP wants to do. There's nothing more wrong with me airing my perspective than you airing yours. You guys are getting emotional and insulted and whatever as if I shouldn't have wrote what I wrote. It's as easy to say that you shouldn't have wrote what you wrote.

              Do you even know the meaning of "discussion forum"?

              And regarding "unlearning" -- if you want to make it as a copywriter, you should at least have enough versatility that "unlearning" the style of writing they taught you in school is no big deal. After all, you're going to have to actually learn things too. Learning is harder than "unlearning."

              Having to "unlearn" a writing style is a foolish reason to skip college.

              But anyway, you guys are arguing. You're trying to win an argument (complete with "emotional blackmail" ) instead of have a discussion. ... So I'll leave you to it.

              The OP has my opinion and yours, just as it's supposed to be on an open forum, and obviously he's going to take the path that he wants to, whatever he's advised.

              I say STAY IN SCHOOL. College experience is valuable. The degree is valuable. And if you focus your studies on the right things, college can help you with your copywriting career.

              That's my advice. Like it or lump it.
              Again, the inflammatory language. Is that really necessary? Emotional blackmail? Surely you're joking.

              I'm a college grad who is a professional, experienced copywriter. I've stated I don't think that it's necessary to get a college education for this, but that it's a choice only the individual can make.

              I've also given evidence for both sides of the argument, talking in clear terms about the benefits AND the pitfalls of going to school and later becoming a pro copywriter. If that's "winning", call me Madame Sheen.

              I'm gonna want some Gods though. Not into the Goddesses thing.
              Signature

              Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9403974].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Tim R
              Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

              Look -- obviously the OP is going to do what the OP wants to do. There's nothing more wrong with me airing my perspective than you airing yours. You guys are getting emotional and insulted and whatever as if I shouldn't have wrote what I wrote. It's as easy to say that you shouldn't have wrote what you wrote.
              Not sure what I wrote that you have construed as me getting emotional or being insulted, I think what I wrote was anything but. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, just as anyone is entitled to disagree with it. Yes, this is a 'discussion forum' as you pointed out

              FWIW, no one is saying college is not worthwhile. What I was saying is that you're recommending a specific subject of study without knowing if they have any interest in it or not. Ok? No one is getting emotional and attacking you for believing college has value. The OP is going to have to decide for himself based on what he's interested in.

              Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

              And regarding "unlearning" -- if you want to make it as a copywriter, you should at least have enough versatility that "unlearning" the style of writing they taught you in school is no big deal. After all, you're going to have to actually learn things too. Learning is harder than "unlearning."

              Having to "unlearn" a writing style is a foolish reason to skip college.
              Nobody said you should skip college based on unlearning a writing style. Don't alter someone's intended meaning to try and prove a point.

              You're just basing the part about learning and unlearning on what you think must be right. It's not based on fact. Many experts in different fields talk about the difficulty they have in trying to help someone unlearn bad habits. Not only do they have to learn a new skill, they have to do so while unlearning conflicting ones. A person who is a blank canvas can generally learn quicker.

              Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

              But anyway, you guys are arguing. You're trying to win an argument (complete with "emotional blackmail" ) instead of have a discussion. ... So I'll leave you to it.

              The OP has my opinion and yours, just as it's supposed to be on an open forum, and obviously he's going to take the path that he wants to, whatever he's advised.
              Again, not interested in having an argument. It seems a bit hypocritical to say that the forum is meant to promote discussion but then take the view that nobody should post anything that disagrees with one of your points.

              So as to be clear, I agree with you that college can be worthwhile. I have a degree myself. But I studied a subject that I was interested in, and I think the OP should do the same.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404085].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
          Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

          yeah, but I always reason it through too. He asked for advice. It's not like I'm evangelizing.

          What I say there makes sense for most. A college degree is a damn good backup in case you want to change careers at some point. Getting specialty knowledge via college also makes a whole lot of sense, even if copywriting is your goal.

          Life is about options. You want to have a wealth of options. A college degree opens that up. Ask any of the middle-aged people you see working at burger king with few other options if a college degree might've helped.

          College is not about "one size fits all" at all -- it's about not cornering yourself in fact.

          Your perspective, Angie, is unique -- the "one size" that's certainly not applicable broadly. You piled up a whole lot of debt earning a multiple degrees you didn't need. The OP doesn't have to pile up a whole lot of debt. Perhaps he's in a less expensive college. Maybe he won't go for three degrees. Perhaps he'll go for a single degree that's applicable to his career goal -- one that also expands his horizons and options.

          Your perspective in fact doesn't apply for most people considering college. Your "one size" doesn't fit all.

          And what's this stuff about "unlearning" writing skills they teach you in college? If you're a decent writer "unlearning" is easy. "Unlearning" isn't hard at all, whatever field you're in. Learning is harder than unlearning.

          I give the same advice to people weighing the value of college education because it's the same subject. And it makes sense to get a college education if you can, unless you want your best fallback options to include stuff like Burger King.
          You're making a lot of assumptions here.

          1) that the quality of college education is the same now as it was before it was largely a for-profit industry. I know a TON of college professors that are experiencing the same difficulties with students that are PAYING them to learn as elementary school teachers are having. When you turn something into a business, people have expectations about being able to have a say in how that business runs. That includes people dissatisfied with grades being able to raise hell until a professor changes them just to avoid the headache. That's teaching you a lot about how the real world works, eh?

          2) that I'm advocating NOT going to school. Nope. Not true. Do I feel it's unnecessary to a copywriting career? You bet your ass. Selling is not something you learn at a desk, in a classroom, taking notes from the PowerPoint du jour. You learn by DOING. And if you're absolutely sure that being a copywriter is your life's dream - get out there and DO, buckaroo. If you're not sure, probably better to stay in school or at least try your hand at another field.

          3) you're also taking digs at me personally that I don't appreciate. I'm pretty sure I presented a balanced argument focused on both sides of the fence. And my degrees aren't useless - far from it. They're in fields I love and have afforded me fantastic internships in those fields.

          In fact, one of my favorite classes is from my Master's course and guess what that was? Entrepreneurship. That lady ran the class like any mentor would run an education - forcing people to get out there and DO. I HATED her class at the time, because we just couldn't figure out how to get an A. As it turns out, her class is one of the few that I remember, and the one that taught me the most. It made me uncomfortable, about as uncomfortable as it may be for some to decide to NOT pursue a college degree and just go out there and succeed anyway.

          And that's the whole problem with university level education - grades. They're critical to keeping scholarships, ya know. And if you're depending on those scholarships to help finance your education, are you focused on learning and getting real world skills? Or are you focused on limiting your potential answers to any given professor's particular point of view, regurgitating those beliefs back on exams but never really retaining anything?

          But I also pointed out the other side. My Master's degree is from a top 20 university, world renowned.

          Is it what sells people on my writing skills? Nah. It lets 'em know I'm smart. But considering the argument above, I'd again posit that there are a lot of not-so-smart people coming out of universities with the same piece of paper I've got.

          My degree gets attention in passing, more as an "oh, that's nice. Now tell me about these results you got for XYZ industry."

          It can get your foot in the door. It has with me, as my school has a very well-connected alumni association. But is that worth the investment? Pretty sure cheaper regional colleges don't have that same kind of loyal alumni base. So investing in local college and expecting it to have the same payout as bigger universities even though they're basically the same education? That could be a mistake.

          Again, the only person that can decide the right course is the OP. I didn't tell him not to go to college, and I didn't tell him TO go to college. I told him my experiences and my thoughts and leave it to him to decide.

          And Tim R's spot on. If you're going to advise someone to get a highly specialized degree, interest is something to be concerned about. Even if it meant hell freezing over, I couldn't be persuaded to pursue a technical or financial course. THAT is what I meant about pushing people in certain directions.You have NO idea what his interests are. He could want to sell music just as much as financial products.

          The point is education, not industry. And I think we've done a fine job of presenting both sides here.

          PS- you should read up on "unlearning". There's an entire psych industry built around the premise of helping people break old habits. 20+ years went into learning academic writing habits. So yeah, when you come out and realize academic writing is NOT sales writing, there's a lot of unlearning to be done.
          Signature

          Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9403822].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    I have a 4th grade education... and I'm doing just fine.

    But everyone's different. Only you can decide for yourself what's right. And only you can carve out a path that's worthy of your true, innate genius.
    Signature

    Do you want a 9 figure copywriter and biz owner to Write With You? I'll work with you, on zoom, to help write your copy or client copy... while you learn from one of the few copywriters to legit hit 9 figures in gross sales! Discover More

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9401587].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Eric X
      Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

      I have a 4th grade education... and I'm doing just fine.

      But everyone's different. Only you can decide for yourself what's right. And only you can carve out a path that's worthy of your true, innate genius.
      Do you mind sharing how you were able to pull having just a 4th grade education off?

      I'm better at learning when I go out and gather information on my own. Everything useful I know comes from self teaching. How much weight does the degree actually hold?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9401723].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author master reseller
    And, what degree are you taking now? Is it writing related or technical? You can best learn how to write by simply studying what others have written in your niche and practicing your writing more. You don't have to quit college to do that. Use your college degree as a back up to give you a career that supports you until your copywriting career takes off. That way you won't have to struggle financially during the early years.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9401838].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TJoseph
    I remember battling with this sort of dilemma as well. I was doing a construction course that was going to take me 6 years to complete but my interests were in business (especially online/internet marketing/enterpreneurship in general).

    After all the advice I got from everyone I realized one thing: No one is going to answer what you truly want but yourself.

    If you see that dropping out of college is the best choice in regard to bettering your skill that's only a choice that you can make.

    If you see that you can learn/better your skill while in college that's also up to you.

    You'll need to be able to weigh down the costs and benefits that choosing either will have on your future before deciding what's best suited for you.

    Hope this helps you in anyway.
    Signature
    Want To Know How People Make A Full Time Living Off The Easiest Money Making Site In The World?
    Check out my new WSO
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9402859].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    This is also a great read:

    The most successful college dropouts

    This is exactly what I mean by there's no one size fits all. If you have the skills, then get out there and DO. You are not by any means obligated to conform to what society expects if you already know what you want. If you don't know what you want to do, college and internships are a great option.
    Signature

    Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9403876].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Originally Posted by Eric X View Post

    How much or how little will college help a copywriter's career? Both from a skills and opportunity regard.

    I have been entertaining the idea of dropping out of school to devote more time to developing my craft.
    A college degree can help a lot. Many corporations and advertising agencies require their copywriters to have one.

    Do you plan to work for a corporation or agency?

    Or do you plan to freelance?

    Alex
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9403905].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    It's funny...

    The company I'm working for right now (that normally requires a college degree) is going after the college market.

    I've done a couple months of research and interviewed a bunch of students (and graduates.) The college system is fine. Getting an education is great. But since the federal government got greedy - to the tune of 1 trillion dollars - very few people (relatively speaking) are even remotely getting an ROI.


    By the way...

    I've gone through over 20 application processes for copywriting positions. I've been offered a handful of really good jobs - all requiring college degrees. And here's little 'ol me. I didn't even finish elementary school... much less receive a high school diploma.

    Does a lack of "conventional" education hold me back from making more money than people with Master's Degrees? Nope.

    And while I firmly believe higher learning is our birthright, the paradigm for HOW we get that education has changed. And the people who hold onto the old ways are experiencing massive pain (again, relatively speaking.)

    We really live in a time where self-starters; entrepreneurs rule the roost.

    Of course, not everyone thinks that way.

    They're still... unlearning.

    Marcello Francesco
    Signature

    Do you want a 9 figure copywriter and biz owner to Write With You? I'll work with you, on zoom, to help write your copy or client copy... while you learn from one of the few copywriters to legit hit 9 figures in gross sales! Discover More

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404175].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Eric X
    The value I get out of college is very limited to say the least. I have learned a lot more through self education than I have in classes. I'm not sure about when you guys\gals were in school but today its not about ever applying what you learn its about passing exams and homework. This is what makes devoting 40 hours a week to studying and class seem very pointless. I'm an economics major, and my classes did nothing for me until I started reading books, trading stocks, and learning on my own.

    Working for a corporation or ad agency is not what I want to do. I want to be a freelance copywriter and market my own products. I am dead set on this. Honestly after discovering the copy writing trade I can't see myself doing anything else with my life.

    I have no student debt because I pay for college out of pocket at my local state school (very draining). If not having a degree won't hurt my progression in the industry, is there really a point in spending 3 more years of my life on something I know I'm not going to use?

    Majoring in pharmacy or engineering without a passion (not want) is the worst mistake you can ever make. Those majors are loaded with courses specifically for weeding out the non passionate. So just saying "major in a STEM" is never good advise. The people that major in Stem majors and graduate successfully are never the ones that did it because its a growing in demand field.

    Thank you all for your responses. I would have engaged a lot more but I don't get any kind of notification of responses.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404227].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Eric X
      Time is personally my most valuable commodity. If the ROI on my time isn't worth it, school will hurt more than help. I wanted to pick others brains outside of family to get unbiased point of views.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404242].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    See what Jim Carrey thinks about choosing your path...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/mind-war...-explains.html
    Signature

    Do you want a 9 figure copywriter and biz owner to Write With You? I'll work with you, on zoom, to help write your copy or client copy... while you learn from one of the few copywriters to legit hit 9 figures in gross sales! Discover More

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404244].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Sajun Becker
      Eric... you've got a lot to consider, but I will add this: leaving school was the exact jump-start I needed to start my copywriting career.

      I actually left school out of necessity (I simply couldn't afford tuition at an expensive university anymore).

      Boy, what a relief to ditch the dusty confines of academia and apply my skills (and get paid for them of course).

      That's not to say higher-education doesn't have any use, but the increasing cost (and the shrinking pie) is making it difficult to justify as a viable endeavor for guys like us.

      If you're a competent writer, anything of a critical-thinker, and have a genuine desire to help business people increase their customer base, you'll do fine.

      The initial insecurity is frightening, however not nearly as frightening as burgeoning student loans.

      PM me if you have any additional concerns.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404310].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Chriswrighto
      How many years in are you?

      How many years left do you have?

      What're you studying?

      What are your reasons for wanting to be a copywriter?

      Signature

      Wealthcopywriter.com :)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404402].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Eric X
        Originally Posted by Chriswrighto View Post

        How many years in are you?

        How many years do you have left?

        What're you studying?

        What are your reasons for wanting to be a copywriter?
        I have 3 years left.
        I'm a non traditional student (starting school at 21).
        I'm studying economics.
        Before I enrolled I worked in sales as a booking agent for a major talent agent for 2.5 years. I feel more comfortable selling a product or service than anything. What draws me to copy writing is that I have to combine my sales ability and creativeness with words to close the deal on a product and service.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404519].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          What draws me to copy writing is that I have to combine my sales ability and creativeness with words to close the deal on a product and service.
          Sounds good. But you haven't done any copywriting as yet...right? So the craft you talk about is something you think you'd like to do.

          If you are unencumbered you can take chances if you want. The only thing I would advise is to be honest with yourself.

          Are you excited about copywriting because writing has been a passion for you? Or because school has become a drag? Did you start school because you had a plan for something you wanted in life - or because you grew bored working a job?

          No one knows the answers but you.
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
          ***
          Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.
          January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.
          So sit down, be quiet, and don't touch anything.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404559].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Eric X
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Sounds good. But you haven't done any copywriting as yet...right? So the craft you talk about is something you think you'd like to do.

            If you are unencumbered you can take chances if you want. The only thing I would advise is to be honest with yourself.

            Are you excited about copywriting because writing has been a passion for you? Or because school has become a drag? Did you start school because you had a plan for something you wanted in life - or because you grew bored working a job?

            No one knows the answers but you.
            I started school because my boss (at the time), family, and friends (in/out of college) influenced me that it would be in my best interest. I was the top salesman at a very large talent agency and still didn't crack $60k. College, because of those circumstances seemed like the natural transition. I've always had the natural inclination to write, whether it be essays, screen plays, or music. I would always hear "copywriter" but never knew exactly what they were, or what they did until a year ago. I got through my first year of college with nearly straight As, it just takes tons of time and money!

            After reading all of the Gary Halbert Boron letters, I started to practice everything he wrote about. Now I rewrite website front pages, ads, and sales letters everyday. I'm about to start pro bono work for a local business owner to build a portfolio.

            I know that I will love copy writing as a career because I don't have to fight myself to pick a piece of paper and a pen up to start writing. My natural efforts lead to writing no matter what I am doing. I also like studying different market segments, sales psychology, and marketing strategy as a hobby.

            Again thank you all for the input.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404728].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
          Originally Posted by Eric X View Post

          I have 3 years left.
          I'm a non traditional student (starting school at 21).
          I'm studying economics.
          Before I enrolled I worked in sales as a booking agent for a major talent agent for 2.5 years. I feel more comfortable selling a product or service than anything. What draws me to copy writing is that I have to combine my sales ability and creativeness with words to close the deal on a product and service.
          I took a year off and worked after high school. At my undergraduate schooling, I was 1-2 years older than my classmates. At my associates degree schooling, I was 5-7 years older. In both instances, I was paying my own tuition so I can relate to a good amount of what you're saying.

          Right now you *think* you want to be a freelance copywriter. But until you actually do it... how do you really know?

          Economics is a pretty good degree as a fall-back position AND if you get into doing any type of investment/financial copywriting. Having a background in econ may be useful for getting into investing/stock trading on your own as well. At the very least, you'll understand the lingo far more than most.

          Why not start freelance copywriting or product creation part-time? You can still get the degree and the copywriting projects you do will help with covering tuition. In the event that you hate working with clients (arguably one of the biggest complaints many copywriters have), then you still have multiple career options.

          P.S. One of the things I haven't seen mentioned very much are the people you meet in college. One of my longest known friends is a guy I met in college over 20 years ago. About 12 years ago, he introduced me to my future wife. So I might be a bit biased but I have a lot of reasons why I don't regret going to college.
          Signature
          Kickstart Your Copywriting Business: How To Get Loads of New Clients FAST!

          Kick-A$$ Eight-Figure Producing Copywriting Gun For Hire | Marketing & Copywriting Blog
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404579].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author StokesM
          What is your passion? Does it require a college degree? If getting a college degree is required to achieve your goal (doctor, lawyer, cpa, etc...), then get THAT degree if NOT....well.

          My wife is about to get a PHD in Hospital Administration. My oldest daughter just started her Doctorate in Education. I make more money than both of them and I have NO Student Loans.

          I am retired military and have about 3 1/2 years of college. I don't believe in following the herd. Again, what is your gift (we all have at least one)? I use to recruit college students and college graduates. Only a select few were actually using/working in their field of study.

          My opinion, it does not make sense to go $1000s of dollars in debt and not be assured of a job or position of ANY kind just to say I have a COLLEGE degree.

          Can you say... ENTREPRENEUR!!

          Be Blessed
          Chris
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404588].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TracyBelshee
    Personally, I'm against the push for a college degree. Unless it's your dream to go into a particular field that it would be required for entry.

    In general, I think people should be more focused on trade schools, apprenticeships, etc.

    I went to culinary school years ago, haven't been in the field for 8 years due to burnout, and am still paying off the debt. I went to a high end school and really enjoyed it, but I'm no longer even remotely interested in that field.

    I wouldn't try and talk someone in to, or out of going to college, but degrees are a dime a dozen now since it's become a business (with several steps taking a cut) rather than a way to make a better life.

    Good luck on your decision. Just don't let what others think strap you with debt in a field you are not sure you even want to do.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404736].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
    I dropped out of High School. College I'd say is helpful for some people though.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9404925].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

      I dropped out of High School. School is for chumps.
      No doubt that's a joke.

      Medical professionals, engineers, molecular biologists, software developers, and many other highly skilled professionals went to school.

      Modern society as we know it would not exist without them.

      Alex
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9405166].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

        No doubt that's a joke.

        Medical professionals, engineers, molecular biologists, software developers, and many other highly skilled professionals went to school.

        Modern society as we know it would not exist without them.

        Alex
        Yea, it's good for some professions, not for most entrepreneurial, sales, marketing types, etc. We need our xp from the real world.

        With that caveat, it wasn't a joke. lol
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9406651].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    When I was in college, I majored in Chess, Tournament Bridge, and when I found the time, mechanical engineering and computer science. The degree got me my first job, while the training in how to solve problems has proven invaluable throughout my entire professional career as has the major broadening of my experience that took place in college.

    My feeling is there is a difference between the hard sciences like EE, ME, Archetecture, Biology, etc., and the liberal arts subjects like English, Journalism, Political Science, etc... the sciences are harder to get self educated as opposed to the liberal arts.

    As far as unlearning is concerned, all of those discussions above appear to center around liberal arts topics. I have never heard of having to unlearn anything taught in the engineering/sciences aside from the occasional political bias from some instructors.

    As an aside, I was encouraged to go after my PhD after graduation. But by that time, I too was sick of college .

    Marvin
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9405105].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author big tymer
    stay in school, enjoy the parties and friends you make there. 10 years from now you will wish you did more of it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9405809].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by big tymer View Post

      stay in school, enjoy the parties and friends you make there. 10 years from now you will wish you did more of it.
      Heh. Yeah, if you're on mom and dad's dime, maybe this is a good strategy. If you're going to school for years just to party, there's plenty of parties outside school.

      Trust me. I spent more time partying OUTSIDE my six years of school than in. Not a good enough reason to stay in school in my opinion. Stay in school if you're getting value. If you're not, leave. That's today's reality.
      Signature

      Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9406139].message }}

Trending Topics