Would someone be kind enough to ctriticise thse few sentences.

15 years ago

Originally Posted by edenworkshops

For over 20 years my wife and I ran an EXTRAORDINARY system of craft workshops. Etc...

Nobody cares. Tell them what it means to THEM.

Something like... (and this is just a quick take)...

"If you're happy paying too much for the tools of our trade... and if you don't think there's anything new you can ever learn...

Then move on. This is not the page for you. But... if you want the best deals on what you know you must buy anyway... and if you want to stay on top of the cutting edge binding techniques, read on because...

Award Winning Couple With 20 Years Experience Bring You The Latest In Book Binding And Insane Offers on Equipment And Materials..."

Like I said, it was quick. But something like that I think is more geared toward your reader and not just resume' spewing.

Thanks
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Loren Woirhaye 15 years ago

It still looks and reads more like a hobby site than a commercial one.

Do you actually do much sales volume with this site? How
motivated are you to sell more? Enough that you would
pay for traffic?

When you start paying money for traffic your perspective
changes. As long as you are doing the SEO thing it's tempting
to think you are making progress because you aren't losing
money on the site.

What if you had the number 1 most trafficked and highest
converting bookbinding site in Europe? What difference
would that make in your income and your life?
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oregoncountry

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

Nobody cares. Tell them what it means to THEM.

Something like... (and this is just a quick take)...

"If you're happy paying too much for the tools of our trade... and if you don't think there's anything new you can ever learn...

Then move on. This is not the page for you. But... if you want the best deals on what you know you must buy anyway... and if you want to stay on top of the cutting edge binding techniques, read on because...

Award Winning Couple With 20 Years Experience Bring You The Latest In Book Binding And Insane Offers on Equipment And Materials..."

Like I said, it was quick. But something like that I think is more geared toward your reader and not just resume' spewing.

I really liked this. Doesn't pull any punches and gives a challenge which for me, is what I like in an "intro". Just give it to me straight and lots of confidence but not a "blowhard" type. You know, bs type stuff. I'd check it out if I were searching the web

denise

Now if I can get the Simpson dude to give me some feedback

I will be back with something for him to critique

Oops, I see he isn't a simpson, well, whoever he is, I like his style

Thanks

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RentItNow

15 years ago

I agree with Montello. Who cares? What can you do for me is the first thing on ppls minds when they come to your site. I still cant figure it out after reading.

A couple comments on site.

Do not use blue as your links. It is too googleads looking.

Three column design is way busy.

Which part of the site do people most visiting? Focus on that only. I liked the gold vault part but it is hidden.

I would hire a web designer if this is a money making venture for you. The content is there but you need a good designer that knows how people view the page.

Thanks
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dorothydot 15 years ago

Just from the few lines you posted, I've come up with a more "you" oriented approach.

Have you ever loved a book so much that it fell apart from so much use?

What would you say if I told you that the experience of 20 years is yours for registration? You can learn how to either rebind your own beloved books or to judge the quality of a professional bookbinder's work. The art of reviving a classic with the cover it deserves that will last for years to come has no equal.

Such skills are all too rare these days of mass-production. In fact, our book-binding workshops were nominated a National Living Treasure. Now you can access this almost-extinct craft for yourself.

Added bonus: Because we know you are not exactly rich, you can take advantage of our interesting workshops on binding books - and receive our exceptional offers of equipment... starting today! And this opportunity applies to the whole world, not just here in America.

Want to know more about this wonderfully satisfying craft? Contact us at_________.

This uses the YOU factor much more - vital for good copywriting. I'd strongly suggest using images or photos to supplement your text.

Keep your page simple and easy-to-understand. Too much clutter is dangerous and will confuse your readers.

Hope this helps,
Dot
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Bill Jeffels

15 years ago

Originally Posted by edenworkshops

Hello

Following the advice of warrior members a short while ago, I have re-written my site incorporating suggestions, thank you for that.

In particular I have re-vamped my home page. (edenworkshops.com)

On my home page I have started with a few sentences to be followed by headlines, I have tried to incorporate such ideas as making only verifable claims. Not blow my own trumpet but let others blow it for me, and empathising with my prospects.

These are the few sentences, I would be very grateful if someone would give an opinion and or suggest changes and why.

The sentences:

.................................................. .................................................. ..................
For over 20 years my wife and I ran an EXTRAORDINARY system of craft workshops.

In 1997 the workshops were nominated a National Living Treasure for our contribution to the book arts.

We now bring interesting content and VERIFIABLE EXCEPTIONAL offers of equipment and materials to bookbinders around the world.

We understand that many bookbinders or would be bookbinders are NOT rich people, so we strive to bring GENUINELY EXCEPTIONAL value for money. Do read on.
.................................................. .................................................. .................

Thank you

Richard Norman

Hey Richard,

When I go to someones website I immediately want to know... "what's in it for me". I'm looking for a solution to my problem. Also, Is teaching someone to bind their own books a huge market?.

You start off with you and your wife did this, in 1997 you were nominated for that.

What are you going to do for me. I want to know about me. Are you going to save me money?, time?. Have me desire what it is that you are selling.

All the best

Bill Jeffels

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robinpike

15 years ago

Hi Richard... you have certainly received some excellent feedback from these guys. And just like they have said, it is all about the reader. It is unfortunate that no one wants to know about the seller but in the end it really doesn't matter if you are getting the sales.

Revamp it be attractive to me, me, me!!! :-)

Thanks

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edenworkshops

15 years ago

Thank you dorothydot, Bill, RentItNow & Montello for your feedback and insights, I shall be thinking seriously about what you said.

RentItNow. You said: "I liked the gold vault part but it is hidden." I do not understand what you meant by that, could you elaborate some please?

Once again Loren thank you once again for your crisp observations. Without boring you with detail, I have no choice but to do this myself and learn as I go. Paying for traffic is not an option at the moment, I have had to do the search engine, article, blog things to generate traffic, it has worked to some extent, we are number 6 on Google for our primary search term and most other pages rank well. But mine is a small niche, with only 200 searches a day taking place for our primary search term.

You climb one mountain and right away you find yourself at the bottom of another.

Richard

P.S. dorothydot & montello. Would you mind if I took your examples and reworked them for myself?

Thanks
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dorothydot 15 years ago

Feel free to adapt whatever I wrote here. And good luck.

Dot
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RentItNow 15 years ago

Originally Posted by edenworkshops

RentItNow. You said: "I liked the gold vault part but it is hidden." I do not understand what you meant by that, could you elaborate some please?

What I meant is that if I was a DIY book binder I would have wanted to read that. In that case, it should be above the fold (maybe on top of the testimonials). Anything that MOST people want should be easily visible upon entry to the site.

When I used to work for a fortune 500 company we monitored what people were most viewing and prominently display that so they did not have to look so hard. We eventually automated it with a "Popular Topics" box that would display top 5 pages on the site.

I dont know what your viewers most look at but I would look at that page. Maybe run google analytics to find out what people are looking for.

Good improvements so far, btw!
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MontelloMarketing 15 years ago

Originally Posted by edenworkshops

...montello. Would you mind if I took your examples and reworked them for myself?

Of course. It's why I gave you the example. Classy of you to ask, however.
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- edenworkshops 15 years ago
  
  Hmm, I try to be a class act
  
  I was thinking about what Loren said, he said something to the effect that the site still read like a hobby site, rather than a commercial site. I have a sort of half formed idea of what he means.
  
  Could someone elaborate on that a little please.
  
  Thank you.
  
  Richard
  
  Thanks
  
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BrianMcLeod

15 years ago

Richard,

You've got a pretty small but probably pretty good niche to work with in bookbinding. Not a desperate niche, but one that will probably pay good money for quality information presented and made available to them conveniently.

So, think about Customer Experience when they arrive at your website. They know NOTHING. Nothing about you, nothing about what's in your website, how to navigate it, what to do once they arrive.

YOU have to create that path for them... and on that basis, your site is not up to snuff.

It's overwhelming in choice, with no clear direction for the user. There's no doubt it would be much more visually appealing and effective with an entirely new design.

In your case, you're here asking the questions, looking for help and that's smart. That makes you the exception to the rule.

Unfortunately, many (most?) small publishers of really high-quality niche-specific information often have some degree of "marketing-itis". They think of marketing as something one does TO people instead of FOR them. They're averse to anything that is overtly commercial as if it soils the purity of what they do.

But... secretly, they all want the money from a successful ecommerce site. They just don't have a clue about creating one themselves and they're too broke to pay for anyone else to do it for them.

In the absence of someone skilled materializing in front of you (like say in a Warrior Forum thread or PM) I would suggest you consider creating a NEW site for selling, one that will work in tandem with your existing site, and that can be promoted from your site and by others.

This will alleviate some pressure by not making you "change everything" that's on your site now. Repurpose content from your main site into PDF, Video and graphical training materials. Structure it into a series of lessons and tutorials that you can schedule out and deliver in segments which you sell as a subscription. Bundle them together into a home-study course and sell it for $xxx.

Think of your existing site as a lead generator for your new sales site selling your training course(s). Add a real shopping cart for the physical products you promote.

Start building a list IMMEDIATELY. Get an account at GetResponse or Aweber and get an opt-in offer up for a free report on "3 Easy Steps To Becoming A Master Bookbinder In Your Spare Time" or something...

Use your existing content as the basis for a nice steady follow up sequence that promotes your training site and your physical products.

Track, measure, adjust.

Hope this helps,

Brian

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Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by edenworkshops

Hello

The sentences:

.................................................. .................................................. ..................
For over 20 years my wife and I ran an EXTRAORDINARY system of craft workshops.

In 1997 the workshops were nominated a National Living Treasure for our contribution to the book arts.

We now bring interesting content and VERIFIABLE EXCEPTIONAL offers of equipment and materials to bookbinders around the world.

We understand that many bookbinders or would be bookbinders are NOT rich people, so we strive to bring GENUINELY EXCEPTIONAL value for money. Do read on.
.................................................. .................................................. .................

Thank you

Richard Norman

Although these sentence are "we /I" oriented it is not true that nobody
cares. What is more accurate is where in the sales process you share
this information.

An important part of any sales letter is to build credibility for the product
owner or seller. So people DO CARE about who you are and your
credentials, but not at first. This is not what will capture their attention.

So maybe you don't want to place this at the beginning of the letter
EXCEPT your name becomes the benefit.

So although I understand what the other copywriters are saying
about people's concern for themselves and not you, other
newbies can get confused by such a statement.

So people DO CARE about you but just MORE about themselves.

In fact, if people like you they will buy from you.

-Ray Edwards

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edenworkshops

15 years ago

Thank you once again for your observations.

Brian: Did you mean that I create a sort of satelite website with all the graphic/video/pdf training material on it and nothing else, and guide people to it from the original site. Do you also mean I put the physical products on the satelite site, leaving just the content on the original site?

Would you think of getting another domain name or could I use the original site and use the original url, for example the original site url is edenworkshops.com, the satelite might be edenworkshops/bookbinding tutorials.com.

I agree that the site is overwhelming at first glance, I think it might be a good idea to do as you say and create another site just for the tutorials.

I hear what you say about a new site design, I use xsite pro as it is friendly to me, but I am finding limits to this software. For one thing all pages have to be listed visibly in the menu, that makes for a very overloaded menu.

I have just started building a list from the site, and pleasently I am getting a steady trickle of subscribers, and oddly enough a lot of praise for the site, though this is probably praise for the content and products we sell, and not due to it's design.

Brian, you said:

"Unfortunately, many (most?) small publishers of really high-quality niche-specific information often have some degree of "marketing-itis". They think of marketing as something one does TO people instead of FOR them. They're averse to anything that is overtly commercial as if it soils the purity of what they do.

But... secretly, they all want the money from a successful ecommerce site. They just don't have a clue about creating one themselves and they're too broke to pay for anyone else to do it for them."

This is SO true I just had to agree with you.

Thank you Brian, outstanding comments.

Ray Edwards: Yes, I agree with what you say, I think people do care about who we are, just not as much as about themselves.

Oregoncountry. You said:

"Now if I can get the Simpson dude to give me some feedback I will be back with something for him to critique Oops, I see he isn't a simpson, well, whoever he is, I like his style.

To whom are you refering?

Thank you all once again.

Richard

Thanks
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RentItNow

15 years ago

Originally Posted by edenworkshops

Brian: Did you mean that I create a sort of satelite website with all the graphic/video/pdf training material on it and nothing else, and guide people to it from the original site...Richard

You can do that or just put a subdomain. http://free.edenworkshops.com or http://videos.edenworkshops.com

Its free and you can leave everything where it is.

The hobby site is largely from the webdesign. I would do exactly what Brain said (very good advice btw).

Thanks
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edenworkshops 15 years ago

Hello

It took me awhile to digest everything that Brian said.

So he is suggesting the new site should be focused on teaching aids.

At the moment I give away free, ten .pdf teaching manuals and sell a range of Learn at home DVD's, and also offer Mentoring to aspiring crafts people for a small fee.

Do I take it I should move the DVD's and .pdf's plus the mentoring offer to the new site?

Also maybe I could revamp the ten free .pdf manuals and turn them into audio slideshows.

Am I on the right track?

I am amazed by the help and feedback you are giving me, very grateful indeed.

Richard
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Loren Woirhaye

15 years ago

Oh - and raise your prices for your mentoring - and make
a list of all the things you help your mentorees with. Be
specific.

Really. It's not so you can make more money. 10 Bob is nothing
and because the price is so low the perceived value is very
low too. I know why it's so low, because aren't doing it for
the money, just to filter out the tirekickers - but the English
have been infected enough by our American disdain for anything
cheap - which is why raising prices on some products actually
boosts sales, not just profits, but actual numbers sold.

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edenworkshops 15 years ago

You are right Loren, I charged just to disuade the tirekickers. But I have had a good few responses, some of which led to further sales of fairly priced equipment etc.

I take your point about percived value however, what would you increase it to? £30/50?

Richard
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- edenworkshops 15 years ago
  
  Hi
  
  I am not sure if anyone will be still following this thread, but in the hope someone will read this.
  
  Brian said:
  
  You've got a pretty small but probably pretty good niche to work with in bookbinding. Not a desperate niche, but one that will probably pay good money for quality information presented and made available to them conveniently.
  
  So, think about Customer Experience when they arrive at your website. They know NOTHING. Nothing about you, nothing about what's in your website, how to navigate it, what to do once they arrive.
  
  YOU have to create that path for them... and on that basis, your site is not up to snuff.
  
  It's overwhelming in choice, with no clear direction for the user. There's no doubt it would be much more visually appealing and effective with an entirely new design.
  
  In your case, you're here asking the questions, looking for help and that's smart. That makes you the exception to the rule.
  
  Unfortunately, many (most?) small publishers of really high-quality niche-specific information often have some degree of "marketing-itis". They think of marketing as something one does TO people instead of FOR them. They're averse to anything that is overtly commercial as if it soils the purity of what they do.
  
  But... secretly, they all want the money from a successful ecommerce site. They just don't have a clue about creating one themselves and they're too broke to pay for anyone else to do it for them.
  
  In the absence of someone skilled materializing in front of you (like say in a Warrior Forum thread or PM) I would suggest you consider creating a NEW site for selling, one that will work in tandem with your existing site, and that can be promoted from your site and by others.
  
  This will alleviate some pressure by not making you "change everything" that's on your site now. Repurpose content from your main site into PDF, Video and graphical training materials. Structure it into a series of lessons and tutorials that you can schedule out and deliver in segments which you sell as a subscription. Bundle them together into a home-study course and sell it for $xxx.
  
  Think of your existing site as a lead generator for your new sales site selling your training course(s). Add a real shopping cart for the physical products you promote.
  
  Start building a list IMMEDIATELY. Get an account at GetResponse or Aweber and get an opt-in offer up for a free report on "3 Easy Steps To Becoming A Master Bookbinder In Your Spare Time" or something...
  
  Use your existing content as the basis for a nice steady follow up sequence that promotes your training site and your physical products.
  
  Track, measure, adjust.
  
  Hope this helps,
  
  Brian
  
  .................................................. .................................................. ......................
  
  I took on board what was said and I have been thinking about it for a good while.
  
  One problem is that a lot of the pages and content that will have to be deleted from the original site and transfered to the new satelite site, rank very well in Google, all of them within the top 3/4.
  
  By moving these pages I lose VG Google ranking.
  
  Any comments please?
  
  Thank you.
  
  Richard
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[964261].message }}

Would someone be kind enough to ctriticise thse few sentences.

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