Tear My Sales Letter To Shreds

by 86 replies
122
I'll just get right to the point.

I hired a copywriter to do this sales page and I was told it was HORRIBLE.

So I got my money back and did the sales letter myself.

I know it sucks. I need to know WHY it sucks and HOW to fix it.

What's missing?
What should I take out?
What should I change?

I left out the header because I was told that sucked too and I haven't created one. I can't afford to hire anybody and I know anything I create will also suck. So I may just go without the header. I see many Clickbank sales letters have no header. Hell, most of them now are just a video with a little Easy Sketch Pro cartoon. I can't believe what I'm seeing at Clickbank today. The "great looking" sales letters are dead and gone.

Anyway, that's it. Like I said, tear it to shreds but don't just say it sucks. Tell me why and tell me how to fix it.

I need to make this work but I have to do it myself. I don't have 3 grand for a copywriter and my $97 effort was obviously a waste of time.

That's it. Let it rip!

Here's the URL:

Exercise Dance Beats — Exercise Dance Beats
#copywriting #letter #sales #shreds #tear
  • I'll have a proper look later if i get the chance but what about a simple headline like

    • [1] reply
  • Looks like you've put all of about an hour into it. Even though you were warned that the $97 job was going to be a waste of money, is it really worse than what you currently have?

    If you're still making changes to it, such as removing words and changing the headline based off of one suggestion, it's not really ready for a critique.

    Read Angie's post here http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...-help-you.html

    If you know it sucks then improve it. If you don't know how, read some copywriting books and look at some swipe files. Make it as good as you possibly can before asking for advice.

    At the moment I could spend longer writing out everything that is wrong with your sales page than you probably spent writing it.
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  • Steve, is this really what your market wants? Have you, has anyone for that matter, done the market research?

    You don't have to justify yourself if you have. I'm just failing to see how any health, fitness or workout oriented person would want what you're offering.

    I'm really failing to appreciate why or how your music can compare to for instance "The Rock" Dwayne Johnson's workout playlist...

    The Rock, Dwayne Johnson's Pain & Gain Workout Plan & Diet

    (Dwayne Johnson is a celebrity in the US. Movie Star. Athlete. Workout maniac. Admired by many in the fitness industry.)

    Especially when I can build my own custom playlists of popular music for practically nothing.

    I wanted to comment on your previous attempts, but I didn't feel qualified because I really don't know. I mean personally I workout and all, but I didn't connect with the music or appreciate how your music is preferable.

    That last statement is an opinion. Not a slight against you or your music.

    I just don't know who you're targeting. Why your offer is amazing. What the benefits are over other options. ETC. ETC. ETC.

    Again, this isn't a critique. I'm not ripping your piece to shreds. This is ONLY an opinion.

    I don't know. But my guess, looking at your page, is you don't know either. But if you could fill in the missing points, connect the dots, give us the logic, that would be great for others who want to help you.

    - Rick Duris

    PS: In my copywriting work, I study the market. It's an obsession. I wrote a blog post about this subject this week that may help you:

    How I Dominate Markets (And Get 20% Conversions) | CopyRanger.com

    PPS: Let me put it another way: If you're targeting women who are 10, 20 30 pounds (stones?) or more overweight, struggling to even try to workout and you think electronic 150+ bpm music is going to help them, to motivate them to do insane cardio... do you see anything off about this scenario?
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    • [2] replies
    • Thanks for getting back to me Rick. Yes, I've done the research, This is what I've found. And before I even go any farther, yes, part of this is a guess and I'll explain why as I detail what my research revealed.

      The idea of selling dance tracks to exercise to given very specific beats per minute was suggested to me by someone at this forum who is actually looking for such a product. But before I went ahead and dove into this based on one person's wishes, I did keyword research and looked at the top sites that came up for the keywords I'm targeting.

      About the list first.

      It's not a big list, This is a long tail market. We're not talking hundreds of thousands of visitors monthly. But we're also talking very little competition at least as far as I have uncovered from my research.

      The top sites that come up for these keywords are basically main fitness sites like fitness magazine, shape, sparkpeople and muscle and fitness that dedicate a page to these keywords. The page, for the most part, doesn't really try to sell anything. It'll list some suggestions for downloads with a short little blurb and that's it.

      This lead me to believe, based on the fact that I have found keywords indicating that people are looking for music downloads (for whatever reason) and nobody really going after that market (unless you can show me sites that do specifically with top sales pages) that I might have a way to get in under the radar, even if we're not talking a crap ton of money. Right now I'm not making anything. So even a sale a day is a grand a month. To me that would be gold.

      Also, the sites these keywords lead me to don't indicate that these people are looking to lose weight, gain muscle or anything more than just have dance music to exercise to. I can only assume that they want to work out to music because they feel it's preferable to working out to no music. Otherwise why lookup keywords like exercise dance music or just plain exercise music?

      Again, am I taking a bit of a calculated risk because I'm not 100% sure what these people want? Of course I am. I can only go by the keywords they're looking up and the sites those keywords are pointing to, which offer nothing more than lists that these people will then have to manually download one at a time in order to exercise to,

      What my product gives them is 150 tracks featuring BPMs covered from 90 to 200 that they can download instantly at a fraction of the cost of downloading tracks individually and at a fraction of the time involved.

      That is what my product offers. Now if the product itself is not attractive enough then I'm sure I'll eventually figure that out and no sales page no matter how good it is, is going to fix that problem...no demand.

      But I've got over 5,000 monthly searches that have almost no competition. Most of these keywords don't even have an Adwords cost, but some do...as high as $1 a pop. So there is obviously some demand.

      So since I am making a calculated guess here based on the limited info I was able to obtain (because this isn't a mega niche) I have decided to go with the slant and selling points that you see on the sales page. If those selling points are wrong, that's one thing. But I at least want to put the copy forth in words the best way possible given those selling points.

      And they're simple.

      1) Low cost per track downloaded

      2) Less time spent getting tracks

      3) Ability to customize workout routine

      4) Wide range of beats per minute to choose from

      That's it. Now, having said that, have I put forward those points as well as I could? If not, how can I make them better?
      • [1] reply
    • Steven,

      A few specific problems...

      There's no support in the main text for the claim in the headline, that workout music can make someone fat. As is, it's just a ridiculous headline.

      More importantly, you concentrate on beats per minute without relating that to the benefits that the user really cares about.

      Does anyone other than an aerobics instructor relate to beats per minute per se? I doubt it.

      You need to sit down and rethink what your target buyer truly cares about and then use that as your starting point.

      If you truly don't know what the target buyer truly cares about, then no copywriter is going to be able to help you sell this product.

      But if you do, then you should be able to write a decent first draft.

      Marcia Yudkin
      • [1] reply
  • I Googled...

    150 bpm workout music

    I got this...

    https://www.google.com/search?num=20....0.YvJu8EFJ7XQ

    What makes your music better than this?

    Cardio Workout Playlist: Best Running Songs Above 150 BPM - Shape Magazine

    And again, WHO is your market? And what do they want?

    I doubt a person looking to construct a workout routine based upon BPM is thinking...

    "Working out is a drag. I hate it…you hate it. The alternative sucks. Sitting around popping Ritz crackers while watching the boob tube does nothing but put on some very ugly pounds. But I don’t have to tell you that…right?"

    Yet, that's what you lead with?

    I think your market obsessed with working out. But again, I haven't done the research.

    - Rick Duris
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Rick, you may very well be right. That may not be what they're thinking. It could be something no more complicated than what I described to Marcia's post above.

      I'll repost what's going through my ideal prospect's mind here.

      "I need to work out because I'm out of shape. But working out is so boring. If I had music to workout to that would help. But I don't want just any music. I want music that's at a certain tempo so I can do a steady workout. I'd like different tempos so that I can speed up or slow down my workout. I want to be able to construct long workouts or short workouts. I don't want to have to comb all over the Internet for this music downloading each track one at a time. I want to be able to download a lot of tracks all at once with each one clearly showing how many beats per minute it is so I don't have to guess or use some beat detection program to figure it out. And I want all this at a great price."

      Again, this is my guess based on my keyword research. There really isn't a lot of info about this niche out there. But people are spending up to a dollar per click for some of these keywords. So there has to be something there unless it's just to get them to the page to pitch them a complete workout routine. That is always possible.
      • [1] reply
  • I've had a on and off love affair with working out since I was a kid - yes it needs to be more on than off but moving on. Part of that has been extensive study (scientific type as well as magazine type). At one point I thought I wanted to be an Exercise Physiologist type when I grew up.

    But never, not once, has BPM music come into my mind. I don't know anyone that does work out, has worked out, or is thinking about working out that would even begin to think those thoughts you mentioned.

    Most of the people I know are looking for a program be it in text format or video or whatever. They go buy Richard Simmon's Dancing to the Oldies or whatever and I bet BPM never crosses their mind.

    5000 searches a month = maybe 500 visitors = maybe 50 signups to your newsletter = 5 sales a month?

    The one I mentioned the other day is laid out in a way I think this market (exercise not BPM) are looking for. I don't think people are looking for a long form sales letter but are looking for pictures of cute girls and buff guys (that supposedly got that way from buying the stuff on the page). I know that is sacrilege in the copywriting forum but one of the things is you have to look at your competition as well as what works - not just blindly do a long sales letter because that's what works elsewhere. Not dissing long sales letters - I think they have their place.

    Mark
    • [1] reply
  • Steve, Here's a push in the right direction:

    https://www.google.com/search?num=20....0.SXpWqJR7CQI

    As you'll discover, your letter does not resonate with this market.

    - Rick Duris
    • [2] replies
  • Steven, you don't know me. I have been debating whether or not to weigh in for the last couple of hours. I am not a professional copywriter, but I have some experience and some credentials. And I have written successful copy for my own businesses over the years.

    But what I really am is an entrepreneur. I love to build businesses. I have had a few really good successes, as well as more than my fair share of failures.

    My strong gut feeling is that you do not have a copywriting problem.

    I don't want to seem like I am piling on, but I have to say that I feel like you have completely misread the market here. Your problem is that you are trying to sell a product nobody is looking for.

    There are two categories of this problem:
    1) Nobody is looking for it because nobody needs or wants it (New Coke)
    2) Nobody is looking for it because nobody knows they need it... yet (iPhone)

    Your problem is going to be #1.

    Here is why: none of your prospects (I believe) are looking for a new kind of music for their workouts. They already have music they love. They just need help to know which music in their collection is going to fit into their workout best. Or, if they don't already have it, they are looking for music that they already know they like, to top off their music collection with.

    I seriously doubt anybody at this moment is looking for an entirely new kind of music to work out to. What you are composing has not had any opportunity to make an emotional connection with them yet. It might as well be elevator music.

    Essentially, you are setting yourself up to compete with your prospect's favorite artists, like (from the NYT article) the Black Eyed Peas, the Go-Gos, Rihanna, Glenn Frey, Green Day, ABBA, Metallica, LL Cool J, etc.

    I don't care how good your techno beats are, I guarantee you that you can't compete with that. Especially at the prices you are looking to charge.

    If there is a product here, it is probably the playlists themselves (along with an affiliate account to itunes, amazon, play store, etc.) Do the research and set up premium playlists in every musical genre that will inspire people, then sell that as your product, maybe with some custom techno as a bonus item.

    I'm not sure how many of those you can sell either, but at a lower price point I'd give something like that a much better chance than what you are trying to do here.

    Back to the letter, I think it will become much easier to write when you are trying to solve one problem instead of two. Teach people the science, relate it to the music they already know and love, and then sell them playlists that will keep them going for hours.

    Remove the burden of the introduction of your music and trying to persuade them why it is better for them than their favorite artists, and you may have something to work with here. Like I said earlier, adding it back in as a bonus is going to be a much better approach.

    I know this is not what you want to hear now, and I can appreciate that. I have been in your shoes many times (technically speaking, it is pretty synonymous with the times I have failed). But anyone telling you that you have something going on here is not doing you any favors.

    I would take a few days off, clear your head, then take a long hard look at what you've got to work with.

    I wish you the best of luck.
    • [ 9 ] Thanks
  • You say you're broke...so you come up with a product a couple people in the whole world might want.

    You'll never ever make a fortune, or even enough to live on off this product.

    The only possible way you could ever turn a dime on this idea is if you already had a successful product that was related to fitness. Then, and only then, you MIGHT be able to piggy back it off your list of buyers. You don't have enough name recognition or product recognition right now to pull this off.

    It's useless to tear your copy apart. It would be an exercise in futility. You don't have a large enough possible customer base to give a crap.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Steve, I didn't read through all the posts here, but I'll say that getting your money back on a $97 salesletter is really screwing that Copywriter over.... OF COURSE a decent Copywriter's going to say that it sucks, because quite frankly, it should. If you're only willing to pay $97 for a salesletter, then guess what? You deserve a salesletter which SUCKS.

    To ask for your money back after they put their work into it is pretty bogus. Why don't you post the original, and we'll tell you if it's worth your $97 and/or if it's better than what you have there (which it probably is, because yours is a joke).

    Edit: Sorry, you did post the original, and yes, it's definitely worth $97... it's not great, but it's certainly worth a measely $97, and it's sure as hell a lot better than what you put there. I'd give that Copywriter you screwed over their money back... don't just demand a refund because some random ******* said it was "HORRIBLE" even if it was all in caps.
    • [ 5 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • I think this thread illustrates the foolishness of creating a product without having an inkling who the potential customers are or why they would want it.

      It also shows the foolishness of picking some long-tail keywords to sell to without knowing anything else about those searchers.

      You don't know, for example, whether people searching for beats per minute workout music are fitness instructors (which I strongly suspect) or consumers. You don't know their age range. You don't know their taste in music. You don't know what kind of workouts they're doing - whether running or indoor aerobics or rowing or whatever.

      I agree with the person who said this is not a copywriting problem. It's just not possible to construct a successful sales letter with so little understanding of the potential buyers and so much guessing.

      I know you're going to come back and say, but I've already created the product and this is my only hope of working myself out of the hole I'm in.

      That too has been the problem all along. What you really need to do is stand back, find a market you do understand and know a lot about, then as needed tinker your product to fit it and only then approach the task of writing copy.

      I'm sorry that this is not the kind of advice you wanted. But it's what you need.

      Marcia Yudkin
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      • [1] reply
    • Whatta thread, huh?

      I have Mike Humphrey's voice in my head right now - telling me to keep it classy.

      Sorry Mike.

      This is BS.

      You paid $97 for a sales letter... and you're complaining? You got your money back?

      Sorry, but that demonstrates less than zero integrity.

      Give him or her every cent back. Right now. It's SO messed up that you got away with that.

      I don't care how bad it is.

      Here's why...

      You're unclear about, well... everything associated with this campaign. Even if you hired a decent $1,500 - $2,000 range copywriter - who fleshed out a proper letter, it still wouldn't get you anywhere.

      You can't pour perfume on a pig.

      Rick tried to help you. He gave you some awesome gems to spend hours - if not days researching. You didn't do it.

      In terms of whether there's a market for this...

      Maybe there is... maybe there isn't... in some incarntion...

      But if this thread tells me anything, you aren't getting there... where ever there is.

      Steve, I'm sure you're a good guy. Do the right thing. Give your copywriter his or her money back.

      Mark

      P.S. Rick missed the fact that The Rock is also The People's Champion and The Most Electrifying Man in Entertainment.
      • [ 5 ] Thanks
  • Guys, I'm missing an arm, and it sucks. I would do anything to have one.

    In a perfect world would pay a qualified surgeon for a custom prosthetic, but I haven't got the budget. So I had the local auto shop weld a plastic kitchen spatula onto my stump instead.

    Trouble is the spatula doesn't have opposing thumbs, or any fingers for that matter. It's making it very difficult to drive, do pushups, and and caress my wife lovingly.

    Look I know what you're going to say, so I'll beat you to it: My spatula arm needs some work. Maybe even alot of work. And I'm willing to go the distance.

    So don't hold back. Tell me exactly how you would improve my spatula arm. I'll take any criticism, unless you're another biased spatula arm hater. Let's keep this topic constructive.

    **EDIT- FYI, the above is satire. I have two healthy full-grown arms in real life. No spatula necessary.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [3] replies
    • Ya know I generally avoid Steven's "woe is me" threads and really don't have the desire to get into it, but these seem to be his problems:

      *He's trying to sell something no one (or very few people) wants, and ZERO people actually need.

      *His copywriting skill is... shall we say, not up to par.

      *...however, he refuses to spend money on a quality copywriter and demands money back from someone who did a $97 job (lol)

      *He refuses to take the best advice given to him.

      *Maybe most importantly, he's stuck in a poverty "I need to make this work FOR ME" mentality.

      Sorry Steven, but you need a VAST shift in your attitude and priorities before anyone can really help you. This thread will remain completely worthless until the above issues are addressed.
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • Banned
      I'd put a motorized "beater" welded to the stump instead of the spatula. Much more useful. You can whip up eggs, meringue , cake mix ... the possibilities are unlimited.
      • [1] reply

    • LMFAO!! I love it!
  • Banned
    I do wish you good luck in your ventures.
  • [DELETED]
  • Banned
    Oh dude. You fall over... you pick yourself up. You fall over again... and pick yourself up. Comes a time when you don't fall any more.

    You are a bit of a "pain in the ass" but at least you're having a go. Hang in there. There is a Santa Claus.
    • [2] replies
    • Jesus christ, I haven't laughed that hard at a comment in a long time.

      Thanks, Nazi. You strike again.

    • In Steve's case, a Sanity Clause.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Simply put, you've got to do your research no matter how long it takes you. In a previous post to a similar question I answered as follows:


    When I begin a project, I first find out who my target is. I do this by becoming the target...kinda like profiling. If the project is about something I'm not too familiar with, I google the subject matter (for example, farming) like this: "farmers forum" include the quotes. Google will bring back a whole slew of forums that deal specifically with farmers.

    I then join several of the forums and lurk for a few days. I'm looking for buzz words, common gripes, personality traits, and anything that will help me "become" the farmer.

    I then do the same type of google search for "farmer newsletters" and repeat the process as I did with forums. I'm trying to identify with the farmer. I try see life through his eyes. I especially look for the most common complaints that a farmer faces everyday. I try to live his life, to feel what he feels, to identify the triggers.

    This process has been failsafe for me. Yes, it does take time to complete the research. But, what you uncover in this fashion will ALWAYS put you in a better position to befriending your prospect than anyone else's opinion. I never rely upon someone else's opinion.

    Only after I truly feel I have a good understanding of who my prospect is, will I even think about putting pen to paper.

    After doing research, if you find that the market is too narrow or non existent, you gotta let it go.
    But whatever you do, never give up!
  • First of all...

    You never get enough of what you really don't want.

    And...

    Results don't lie. (My catchphrase.)

    Steve came here looking for advice. But if I were to dig a little deeper, he was looking for validation just a little more. He didn't get it. And he immediately goes on the defensive.

    I know I already said it (so I repeat it a little differently)...

    But I personally feel like this whole thread is an act of enabling. He blamed a $97 copywriter for a failure that couldn't salvage his positioning for an extra $5,000. (And he decided to demonstrate zero accountability in the process by getting his money back.)

    To me...

    That's cowardly. If nothing else, it shows no integrity whatsoever. All because of what, someone saying the copy was horrible? Did he honestly walk into a $97 relationship hoping to unlock 10's of thousands of dollars in profits (to save himself financially?) Because if so, I don't believe he's even remotely interested in changing his circumstances. Why? Simple. You gotta SHOW UP as someone different... to change anything.

    I'm not bashing you Steve. But I am questioning your ethics. And to shrug this whole thread off by saying you have other, better ideas tells me a lot about your character.

    So while Angie brought some awesome points that newbies can learn from in this thread, here's another pearl of wisdom:

    If you want to change your circustances, take the kind of action that's capable of getting the results you want, need and deserve.

    And stop pretending the world's against you. It's not. It's called the "you are your own worst enemy disease." And yes, it's an epidemic. But there is a cure. It starts with taking responsibility, first and foremost.

    Mark
    • [ 4 ] Thanks
  • Banned
    ^ yep. Desperate is never a good place to be.
  • No problem.

    I know my words while helpful, can sting like a muther. It's even more reason I'm glad you understood and appreciated.

    - Rick Duris

    PS: I'll reply to your post in more detail by Sunday.

    PPS: One piece of advice right now: Get some upfront, skin-in-the-game money from that partner before you spend a lot of time for nothing. It doesn't have to be a lot. Just some good faith money. He should appreciate your caution.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Get a job, steve.
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    • [1] reply
    • I had one. A very good one up until 2000. Then came the downsizing. After 3 years of looking for work and getting nothing but a temp job sticking labels on law briefs for $7 a hour working the graveyard shift (the absolute lowest time of my life) I finally gave up looking and turned to the Internet.

      Nobody is going to hire me at my age (I'm close to retirement age) and pay me anything other than minimum wage in spite of my skills.

      So make light of my situation and make jokes all you want. If you knew what I've been through, you wouldn't. But I expect nothing less from this place.

      It's why I pray for the day that I never have to come back here again as the hostility here is despicable.

      At least Rick was trying to help me, and he has.

      Your comment does nothing but remind me of how much I hate it here.

      And if you think you're funny, you're not.

      Not to somebody who's fighting to keep a roof over his head.

      Like I said, it's pretty much what I expect when I come here.
      • [4] replies
  • Just to point out something, your customers are not interested in the beats or the sound or the tempo or the research. What they are interested in is what would all this mean to them. WIIFM. Speak from the benefit point of view. Does it help them improve performance? Does it help them loose weight? Does it keep them motivated? Does it make them workout longer?

    What is your unique selling proposition? (UPS) I dont see it.. perhaps something you could ponder abt. As for design, in my opinion, its too dry.

    Basically this is a sales letter, and you could turn your sales letter into a story. Man or woman has problems your target market has. Used your product.. and BANG!!! Got the results they want in X amount of time.

    You could also do split tests, and the data will tell you which copy works better. Whats the conversion like for the old copy and whats the conversion like for this copy. Numbers dont lie.

    Best Regards,
    Ajitpal
  • Give Steve a break. He just doesn't realize he needs some serious counseling...LOL.
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  • I take back what I wrote previously. You haven't changed at all. This tells me you're not taking any responsibility for some of the hostility that has been directed at you. In one post you write, "Sorry I've been such a pain in the ass". And then you come back with writing something like this.

    You take one step forward and then you take two steps back.

    You get what you expect and you reap what you sow.

    For the longest time I was one of your most ardent defenders because I thought you were misunderstood and that you were being bullied. Boy did I have you pegged wrong. You have destroyed a lot of good will here. There were people here, like Rick (and many others), who gave you some GREAT advice, advice that I've seen people pay a lot of money for.

    You don't know how to handle constructive criticism and that's one of your biggest obstacles to finding the success you are looking for. No, let me rephrase, it is the singlest biggest obstacle to what you are looking for.

    And I'll agree with Mark, this whole thread is definitely an enabler thread. But I'll tell you what, I'm not making that mistake again. You say you "hate" this place and that you won't come back, and that statement says it all.

    You had some people in your corner, like me, but once I read what you wrote I was done. You consistently apply the logical fallacy of paint-brushing this entire place by the actions of a few people, some of whom's actions were in response to YOUR actions and YOUR attitude.

    You say you won't come back. Well, this time, I hope you mean it.

    RoD
    • [ 4 ] Thanks
  • Steve, here's the best coaching I can give you at this crucial time:

    Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Have multiple irons in the fire. Keep at least 3 plates spinning.

    Jay Abraham would say have multiple marketing pillars.

    If something fails, replace it immediately with something else.

    Do that and SOMETHING will click for you. Something will catch fire. Something will hit paydirt.

    Rarely can you predict what it is. That's why I suggest spreading your risk.

    The key is staying in action on multiple fronts.

    I hope this helps you.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
  • Impressed with the level of knowledge of the experts on this sub-forum. Normally on other forums you get advice that wildly differs from person to person, but here everyone knew instantly the copy was written with absolutely no researching of the target market. Written from selfish desperation.


    Some people just don't have the normal ability to be able to emphasise with others and see things from their point of view, like narcissists. And Steve, apparently.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
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