Great copywriting products...that never came out.

by gjabiz
7 replies
Prompted from an email. Someone stumbled across my interview with Pete Ziesinger of Green Tree Press from 2009 on youtube.

In the video Pete discussed a new product, the 35 year history of Green Tree Press ads. What he was going to do was to add the details of how much the ad cost, where it ran, how much it pulled, how long it ran, what TESTS were done to it.

I've never seen anything like this, the "inside" details from a successful copywriter.

In the video I show the work of Ted Nicholas and Dan Kennedy and Denny Hatch, all great stuff. So, I was somewhat disappointed when Pete decided to retire and one of the great copywriting products (could have been) was put up on the shelf.

In 1998, I had built a mock up of a similar product for Suarez Corporation Industries, we were thinking about bringing out a new newsletter, which would have been a tabloid size newsprint full of ads. On one side would be the ad (or direct mail promotion) and on the other side the results.

This got shelved, considered again around 2007, then put off the table for good.

Another minor disappointment. I put in a lot of time and work at both SCI and at Green Tree Press (and later at Arthur Middleton) researching the direct response advertising which made millions and millions of dollars.

There ARE inside secrets which THEY don't tell you about, and they really can't, because they are considered trade secrets. Especially, the RESULTS of their advertising.

ONE way to find out what workED (past tense), is to watch how long they run the ad and you as a copywriter may be able to know if it was successful or not.

Hard to access the daily results unless you have insider info.

The POINT, which I've made before on this forum is

UNLESS you know the results of a campaign, your SWIPE files might be based on assumptions, the SWIPE file you refer to when writing your copy may be a test piece, with one element different and that one element could have been a big difference.

I see this everyday with newer copywriters, picking and choosing their SWIPES from what they believe to be successful promotions, and their borrowed efforts fall flat because they lack the foundation of understanding basic human needs and wants, as well as not making adjustments for their specific target market.

Most markets are a PERSON (direct response speaking) and when you write for that person consider the WHERE as much as the When and What.

For example, in the youtube video, we discuss the BOYFRIEND WANTED ad, which was a promotion (very successful HUSBAND WANTED headline) which had to be changed due to the editorial concerns of the magazine it was run in.

The TAKEAWAY from this?

Do you spend any time at all considering your target's state of mind at the TIME your promotion intersects with them?

The headline, opening or deck copy must resonate with this PERSON at the time and place they come in contact with it...and using OLD swiped headlines, probably isn't going to cut it in this modern world.

So, consider the TIMING of your promotion. It could be the difference between huge success and major fail.

gjabiz

PS. I also have been able to get the results from other major players in direct response ads, reviewing all to find common threads. Will keep you posted on any AH HA discoveries I make.
#copywriting #great #productsthat
  • Profile picture of the author TracyBelshee
    Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

    The POINT, which I've made before on this forum is

    UNLESS you know the results of a campaign, your SWIPE files might be based on assumptions, the SWIPE file you refer to when writing your copy may be a test piece, with one element different and that one element could have been a big difference.

    I see this everyday with newer copywriters, picking and choosing their SWIPES from what they believe to be successful promotions, and their borrowed efforts fall flat because they lack the foundation of understanding basic human needs and wants, as well as not making adjustments for their specific target market.
    So how does the new copywriter know what is good and what isn't, apart from what sounds good? Aside from the obvious ones that everyone says to copy (halbert, sugarman, etc. etc.), how do you know what's worth copying?

    I'm thinking of some advertising I've been reading this past week that has some really great writing, something I'd love to be able to do one day, but how do I know if I'm wasting my time?

    The site Stauer.com was brought to my attention earlier this week and I love the type of ads they use. This is just one example of things I've been reading that I'd like to sort of work in to my own style, but how do I know if they are worth trying to work towards?

    I'd love any advice you could give to sort the good from the bad.
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    • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
      Originally Posted by TracyBelshee View Post

      So how does the new copywriter know what is good and what isn't, apart from what sounds good? Aside from the obvious ones that everyone says to copy (halbert, sugarman, etc. etc.), how do you know what's worth copying?

      I'm thinking of some advertising I've been reading this past week that has some really great writing, something I'd love to be able to do one day, but how do I know if I'm wasting my time?

      The site Stauer.com was brought to my attention earlier this week and I love the type of ads they use. This is just one example of things I've been reading that I'd like to sort of work in to my own style, but how do I know if they are worth trying to work towards?

      I'd love any advice you could give to sort the good from the bad.
      I say it comes down to how well you understand the fundamentals of good salesmanship and basic human nature. That's where my past experience as a counselor and business coach really saved my skin. That kind of experience gives you in-the-flesh insight into why some things motivate people while other things don't. It's hard to believe how anyone can make it in this business without that kind of background...or something similar.

      Of course, anyone can be wrong. I've seen my share of head scratchers. But if you understand WHY things work, you'll be right a whole lot more often than you'll be wrong.

      I believe a lot of copywriters and marketers miss that. They spend too much time searching for things that have worked and trying to rebuild Frankenstein monster and little or no time on understanding WHY they work.

      Other times, they draw the wrong conclusions about why things work, and build an ad on the wrong foundation. I see that a lot when I take on new consulting clients and examine the ads created by other writers or by the business owner.

      Again, goes back to what Mr. Emerson said:

      “As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”

      This is a GREAT post BTW, nice job gjabiz.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by TracyBelshee View Post

      So how does the new copywriter know what is good and what isn't, apart from what sounds good? Aside from the obvious ones that everyone says to copy (halbert, sugarman, etc. etc.), how do you know what's worth copying?

      I'd love any advice you could give to sort the good from the bad.
      Google longest running (type of ad) and you'll see
      them.

      One not mentioned is a corn remedy,
      been going for about 5 decades I think.

      Goes something like this...

      ------------------------------------------
      Corns Gone In 3 Days Or All Your
      Money Back
      -----------------------------------------

      Look for the longest running Informercials,
      they put in some serious money up front.

      Although you really need to go through the order process
      to see their upsells and continuity lock ins.

      One of the longest running tv ads, shows a woman throwing
      a tire through a window. It's for a tire company.

      Just Google the longest running ads you are after.

      Best,
      Doctor,
      E. Vile
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post


        One not mentioned is a corn remedy,
        been going for about 5 decades I think.

        Goes something like this...

        ------------------------------------------
        Corns Gone In 3 Days Or All Your
        Money Back
        -----------------------------------------
        It's...

        "Corns Gone In 5 Days or Money Back"

        Not sure if it's still running anywhere though.

        Alex
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9546713].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

    Prompted from an email. Someone stumbled across my interview with Pete Ziesinger of Green Tree Press from 2009 on youtube.

    In the video Pete discussed a new product, the 35 year history of Green Tree Press ads. What he was going to do was to add the details of how much the ad cost, where it ran, how much it pulled, how long it ran, what TESTS were done to it.

    I've never seen anything like this, the "inside" details from a successful copywriter.

    In the video I show the work of Ted Nicholas and Dan Kennedy and Denny Hatch, all great stuff. So, I was somewhat disappointed when Pete decided to retire and one of the great copywriting products (could have been) was put up on the shelf.

    In 1998, I had built a mock up of a similar product for Suarez Corporation Industries, we were thinking about bringing out a new newsletter, which would have been a tabloid size newsprint full of ads. On one side would be the ad (or direct mail promotion) and on the other side the results.

    This got shelved, considered again around 2007, then put off the table for good.

    Another minor disappointment. I put in a lot of time and work at both SCI and at Green Tree Press (and later at Arthur Middleton) researching the direct response advertising which made millions and millions of dollars.

    There ARE inside secrets which THEY don't tell you about, and they really can't, because they are considered trade secrets. Especially, the RESULTS of their advertising.

    ONE way to find out what workED (past tense), is to watch how long they run the ad and you as a copywriter may be able to know if it was successful or not.

    Hard to access the daily results unless you have insider info.

    The POINT, which I've made before on this forum is

    UNLESS you know the results of a campaign, your SWIPE files might be based on assumptions, the SWIPE file you refer to when writing your copy may be a test piece, with one element different and that one element could have been a big difference.

    I see this everyday with newer copywriters, picking and choosing their SWIPES from what they believe to be successful promotions, and their borrowed efforts fall flat because they lack the foundation of understanding basic human needs and wants, as well as not making adjustments for their specific target market.

    Most markets are a PERSON (direct response speaking) and when you write for that person consider the WHERE as much as the When and What.

    For example, in the youtube video, we discuss the BOYFRIEND WANTED ad, which was a promotion (very successful HUSBAND WANTED headline) which had to be changed due to the editorial concerns of the magazine it was run in.

    The TAKEAWAY from this?

    Do you spend any time at all considering your target's state of mind at the TIME your promotion intersects with them?

    The headline, opening or deck copy must resonate with this PERSON at the time and place they come in contact with it...and using OLD swiped headlines, probably isn't going to cut it in this modern world.

    So, consider the TIMING of your promotion. It could be the difference between huge success and major fail.

    gjabiz

    PS. I also have been able to get the results from other major players in direct response ads, reviewing all to find common threads. Will keep you posted on any AH HA discoveries I make.

    These sound like great products. I mean, we can sometimes watch to see how long an ad runs, but rarely are we privy to sales letter controls and those response rates.

    You'd think with all the effort to reduce copywriting to a science we'd see more precision case studies around, even if the data is decades old.

    There's always Who's Mailing What I guess, but at $900 a year? Might be good for 9 (or more) people... Wonder if that would work...
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  • Profile picture of the author TracyBelshee
    Thanks Seth.

    So basically, at least in the beginning, study the swipes/ads to learn the flow more than to learn specifically what is good.

    Study sales and human nature to learn how to make your writing effective and you will learn how to pick out (generally) what worked in previous ads.
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    Longest running direct response ad? Since 1863, in Popular Science and earlier magazines.

    Headline: Surplus Binoculars. Having new wars every generation has kept this alive and well. I guess we're just voyeurs and peepers at heart, eh?

    Longest running ads from 1880 on include

    Woodworking PLANS (check out U-bild it)
    New TOOLS the electric drill or saw for 125 years
    Pain medicine...from snake oil to emu and beyond...forever.

    HOW TO information, forever and a day.

    Kitchen gadgets, eating and all things food...EVER, EVER, EVERGREEN.

    With 10,000 new baby boomers a day reaching retirement age, huge market.

    Where you might see old people, I see dollar signs. Sure, they might be bent over and moving slower than these modern dollars that slip through your fingers quickly...but, still greenbacks after all.

    Frank Cawood has been selling some of his home remedies for about 1/2 a century, he's an oft overlooked copy writer too. Some of his ads still pull after decades.

    gjabiz
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