Brutally Critique My Copy, Please Use Live Bullets

by Imre
46 replies
I'm working with a computer scientist who developed an ingenious methodology ... rather than tell you and spoil the first reaction...

Please critique... the email directs them to his landing page (which is rough): http://www.mylanderpages.com/abilitymatrix/imre-test

Some variation of this email would go out:


Subj line: The REAL buying trigger & How To connect your product everytime

Dear Business Builder/Name,

If you've ever had an awesome product but sales just didn't click, or had a competitor's inferior product cheat failure and kick your butt.

Then customer emotional buying triggers negatively impacted your campaign, and positively your competitors...

And any one of these five reasons our clients hired us might be of particular interest to you:

1. Up to 400% increase in sales - 70-80% is common
2. Exactly sixteen times 100% on target in 16 tries
3. HIGHEST ROI, even for small promotions
4. Results in only TWO WEEKS start to finish
5. You SAVE TIME and headache, WE DO THE WORK

... Yet it actually COSTS LESS than other methods.

Mark Twain summed it up perfectly: "There are two reasons a man buys anything - The reason he can tell his wife, and the real reason."

What we do is find the real buying reason and connect your product to it. Every-time, no exceptions.

And we have a special FREE offer for you, it's a $10,000-20,000 service and you can get more information here: < Connect YOUR product with THEIR emotions >

Warmest personal regards,



Ak Tolnai, CEO Ability Matrix
Imre Homer, Ability Matrix, President U.S. Division

PS: My only concern is that your product connects 100% on target to your prospects' emotional sweet-spot. Take advantage of our special < FREE > offer. Jaws may drop. Competitors may be envious. People may talk. You can't lose.
#brutally #bullets #copy #critique #live
  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Both the email and the lander are a dog's breakfast - all over the place. But the email is the worst offender. Two words - dead boring. You're not writing a business letter from 30 years ago...you're writing email - its gotta pop or it doesn't even get open let alone read. Bond Halbert has a video on GetResponse. You should watch it. Webinar Recording: Get Amazing Open Rates with Bond Halbert! - GetResponse Blog - Email Marketing Tips
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    • Profile picture of the author Imre
      Thanks for the heads-up Copy Nazi!

      Will listen to it right now. Any more specifics jus feel free to shoot away

      Imre
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    • Imre,

      You state you are working with a computer scientist.

      Think of John Carlton's classic hook (I underlined it):

      Amazing Secret Discovered By
      One-Legged Golfer Adds 50 Yards
      To Your Drives, Eliminates Hooks
      and Slices... And Can Slash Up To
      10 Strokes From Your Game
      Almost Overnight!


      What's unique about your computer scientist?
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      • Profile picture of the author Imre
        Hey ThePromotionalGuy,

        Well he's got 2 legs... We're in Budapest, he finished high school when the 'iron curtain' fell. Hungary opened her borders to allow East Germans to escape thru Hungary leading up to the fall of the Berlin Wall.

        Consequently seeing the change of the guards so to speak had a strong influence. He's always looking for change and innovation.

        Also he and his parents where influenced by the Hungarian revolution in October 1956 - where the citizens protested - Russians opened fire - were rushed and this continued for 10 days until Russia sent 3,500 tanks in - he because relatives escaped and he could see the contrast through them - parents cause decided to stay plus family left

        Ak also has an MBA an sensed a disconnect between product offerings and what people bought 15 years ago - came to him 6 years ago when he went into sales and started formalizing the idea

        there's a story here somewhere...

        Thanks!

        Imre
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        • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
          Originally Posted by Imre View Post

          Hey ThePromotionalGuy,

          Well he's got 2 legs... We're in Budapest, he finished high school when the 'iron curtain' fell. Hungary opened her borders to allow East Germans to escape thru Hungary leading up to the fall of the Berlin Wall.

          Consequently seeing the change of the guards so to speak had a strong influence. He's always looking for change and innovation.

          Also he and his parents where influenced by the Hungarian revolution in October 1956 - where the citizens protested - Russians opened fire - were rushed and this continued for 10 days until Russia sent 3,500 tanks in - he because relatives escaped and he could see the contrast through them - parents cause decided to stay plus family left

          Ak also has an MBA an sensed a disconnect between product offerings and what people bought 15 years ago - came to him 6 years ago when he went into sales and started formalizing the idea

          there's a story here somewhere...

          Thanks!

          Imre
          Huh?

          Russian tanks opening fire, revolution, fleeing relatives and escaping East Germans?

          Use this stuff. It's gold!
          Signature
          Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
          - Jack Trout
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          • Profile picture of the author Imre
            Hey Joe... whatrya doin with that golfclub in your hand - sorry, couldn't resist...

            Ak is like 39, so the iron curtain fell in 1989 he was around - but in 1956 his parents were around - jus to make sure we've got the timeline right.

            That being said... hmmm... I'll talk to him some more to firm up the connection

            Thanks for the input,

            Imre
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      • Profile picture of the author Imre
        Hey Promotional Guy...

        WWII Soviet T-5 Tank Triggers Buying Emotions

        Thank God the Russian Tanks blasted away…

        Hungarian Computer Scientist unlocks
        Amazing Mystery Hidden in WWII Soviet T-5 tank
        Blasts through ANY resistance to Buy Your Product
        … First Test Quadruples Sales Almost Overnight!
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        • Profile picture of the author mrmouse
          Let's say that you were planning on buying a car. And you went to two dealerships, looking for the same exact car because you wanted to see if you could get a better price.

          Salesman 1: He talks at you instead of to you. He makes a lot of big claims and has a lot of one-liners. You don't think he's trustworthy. Really, you think "what a jerk". This slimeball just wants my money.

          Salesman 2: He makes you feel like a friend. He talks to you and gets to know you. Yet at the same time, he is keeping the conversation focused on you. What you want, why you want it, etc. He too has some crazy claims about the car. But the things he says just seem natural and you trust this guy.

          Who are you going to buy from?

          So with that said, here is my take on your copy Imre. The number one thing that I believe will keep your page from converting is as that it is over hyped. If you read through some of the best sales letters, what you will find is the best copywriters find a way to make big, even crazy claims without sounding hypey, and without sacrificing the trust. It is a balancing act, and an art.

          Take a look at this ad for example:
          http://www.theryanmcgrath.com/Joe_Karbo_Ad1.jpg
          Signature
          {COPYWRITING + DESIGN} Click Here to Get The Most $$$ Out of Your Traffic and possibly Get The Highest Converting Sales Page or VSL in Your Niche
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          • Profile picture of the author Imre
            Mr Mouse,

            Mighty fine suggestion. I will say all figures quoted are the actual results. Essentially we're looking to target business owner types, b2b - they are often quite bottom line oriented.

            And I know the let's get to know each other works, but I've had the bottom.line type work quite well. I've made multiple six figures quite a few times using rather direct bottom-line approaches. Now the last 15 years I haven't worked much, and the last ten traveled quite a bit, so's it's been a while.

            I've never thought myself a copywriter, but in it the businesses I've been involved in (quite a few) didn't communicate effectively and I always worked on improving the message - usually with huge improvements - hundreds and thousands of percent.

            Joe Karbo - A real classic, and great example. I know bigger home runs happen the more conversational, more get to know type of spiel. But my experience has been if I nail the benefits right I get very good response.

            If you look at someone like Bob Bly, his b2b promotions are rather direct benefit and he produces predictable results.

            I plan to run several versions and see. It would be cool if they are close, because I'd attract different types of people and can promote a different version to those that didn't respond.

            Thanks again, I appreciate your, and everybody's input

            Please do hit me with more critiques.

            Imre
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    • Profile picture of the author TracyBelshee
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Both the email and the lander are a dog's breakfast - all over the place. But the email is the worst offender. Two words - dead boring. You're not writing a business letter from 30 years ago...you're writing email - its gotta pop or it doesn't even get open let alone read. Bond Halbert has a video on GetResponse. You should watch it. Webinar Recording: Get Amazing Open Rates with Bond Halbert! - GetResponse Blog - Email Marketing Tips
      Funny, I just watched that yesterday. Very good video with a lot of great information.
      Signature
      I may be riding a trike, but it's a badass trike.

      **CAUTION**
      Advice and opinions in the post above are from an amateur. Stay back 50 feet, salt shaker at the ready.
      You've been warned.
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      • Profile picture of the author Imre
        Tracy,

        Definitely use today info - and specifically for me answered the curiosity - curiosity benefit - benefit subject line question. Of which I racked my brain and figured IF the benefit is 'right on' that's what I'd use...

        NOW, I can have my cake and eat it too!
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Originally Posted by Imre View Post


    And any one of these five reasons our clients hired us might be of particular interest to you:

    1. Up to 400% increase in sales - 70-80% is common
    2. Exactly sixteen times 100% on target in 16 tries
    3. HIGHEST ROI, even for small promotions
    4. Results in only TWO WEEKS start to finish
    5. You SAVE TIME and headache, WE DO THE WORK
    Okay, so how about your reader?

    Wouldn't THEY be interested in one of these ^ things rather than you sticking a gun in their face and making a cluster of vague statements before getting to any kind of point?

    Your ad says nothing interesting until 3/4 of the way down the page...at which point I'd be gone already. That's the first mistake, which is ironic considering what you're selling. Hard to believe a page like this would accomplish any of these 5 benefits. You might want to ask yourself if you're practicing what you preach.

    Also,maybe it's just the neighborhood I grew up in, but my first instinct in staring down the barrel of a gun is fear, then anger and retaliation. Hard to imagine anyone would appreciate that. If you're going for shock, I get that...but you're going about it wrong.

    Second, it takes too damn long to figure out what you're offering. You're making your reader work, which means your copy isn't doing one of it's most important jobs. I'd suggest starting over with one of the five benefits above.

    ...and get someone to go your design. $50 on Fiverr would do you better than what you have now.
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    • Profile picture of the author Imre
      Hi Mr. Metaphor,

      Yeah 'shock' value is what I had in mind - realizing it's a bit risky. If you have any suggestions for an alternative to accomplish same, I'm open to hear it. I'll move some meat up sooner.

      I appreciate your input!

      Imre
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      • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
        Originally Posted by Imre View Post

        Hi Mr. Metaphor,

        Yeah 'shock' value is what I had in mind - realizing it's a bit risky. If you have any suggestions for an alternative to accomplish same, I'm open to hear it. I'll move some meat up sooner.

        I appreciate your input!

        Imre
        The shock has to arouse more than idle curiosity. It has to either:

        1) Stir up a fear or suspicious that they might be at risk for whatever you're warning them about.
        2) Challenge their current assumptions about something which they're already doing to solve their problem, but which is secretly working against them.
        3) Challenge what they believe is possible about how quickly, easily they could solve the problem, suggesting that there's a way to cut down the tree with a chain saw instead of struggling with an ax as they've been doing.

        Notice that with ALL these, the shock is attached to specific curiosity about how to get something which they really want. That's active curiosity, and that's how you make a connection.

        On the other hand, you have idle curiosity, which, at best, grabs their attention, but doesn't hold it for long.

        For example (this is an embarrassing confession, but what the hell), even though I could care less about which celebrity is cheating on their partner this week, occasionally those magazines on the left hand side of the grocery line grab my attention.

        But that's all they get, my attention. Since I'm only idly curious, once my curiosity is satisfied, I lose interest.

        But if the curiosity were attached to something which directly relevant to my life and to something I wanted to achieve, I'd be hooked. That's what your headline still isn't doing...here they are again...

        1) Stir up a fear or suspicious that they might be at risk for whatever you're warning them about.
        2) Challenge their current assumptions about something which they're already doing to solve their problem, but which is secretly working against them.
        3) Challenge what they believe is possible about how quickly, easily they could solve the problem, suggesting that there's a way to cut down the tree with a chain saw instead of struggling with an ax as they've been doing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Imre
          Hi Mr Metaphor,

          Thanks!

          I can’t seem to open your copywriting training website, Don’t know if it’s cuz I’m in Hungary or what. So I may be missing some valuably helpful stuff

          Also, some damn reason I can’t make changes to landerpage to make it better - when I go to save a change it simple reverts to the existing layout. but let me say...

          The idea of the gun is to shock - gotta look at it...

          Then they see some text that should be of interest and relevant. But it may be too abstract, not clear enough or enough ‘you’:

          “Is your product depending on Research Roulette
          gambler’s odds…
          BEWARE, in the next 12 months 46% of money and time will be spent on traditional market research that’s KILLING your promotions...

          Don’t gamble and risk dooming your product to mediocrity, or worse….
          An early grave…

          Next time you rely on any market research ask yourself:
          “Do I feel lucky?””

          Which seems to connect to your number 2 relevancy:

          “2) Challenge their current assumptions about something which they're already doing to solve their problem, but which is secretly working against them.”

          Gun and ‘feeling lucky’ come from Clint Eastwood movies “Dirty Harry” - A lot of people I knew used that reference - long ago perhaps.

          Of course Roulette = risky

          Even if the reader doesn’t sense it, text describes… If I’m communicating it well enough.

          It’s SO nice that I know what the heck I’m talkin bouts

          I’ll look at it some more and see bouts fine tuning it accordingly

          Best,

          Imre
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          • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
            Originally Posted by Imre View Post

            Hi Mr Metaphor,

            Thanks!

            I can't seem to open your copywriting training website, Don't know if it's cuz I'm in Hungary or what. So I may be missing some valuably helpful stuff

            Also, some damn reason I can't make changes to landerpage to make it better - when I go to save a change it simple reverts to the existing layout. but let me say...

            The idea of the gun is to shock - gotta look at it...

            Then they see some text that should be of interest and relevant. But it may be too abstract, not clear enough or enough 'you':

            "Is your product depending on Research Roulette
            gambler's odds...
            BEWARE, in the next 12 months 46% of money and time will be spent on traditional market research that's KILLING your promotions...

            Don't gamble and risk dooming your product to mediocrity, or worse....
            An early grave...

            Next time you rely on any market research ask yourself:
            "Do I feel lucky?""

            Which seems to connect to your number 2 relevancy:

            "2) Challenge their current assumptions about something which they're already doing to solve their problem, but which is secretly working against them."

            Gun and 'feeling lucky' come from Clint Eastwood movies "Dirty Harry" - A lot of people I knew used that reference - long ago perhaps.

            Of course Roulette = risky

            Even if the reader doesn't sense it, text describes... If I'm communicating it well enough.

            It's SO nice that I know what the heck I'm talkin bouts

            I'll look at it some more and see bouts fine tuning it accordingly

            Best,

            Imre
            For the website access, please email Jack Leak at customerappreciation@vqsuccess.com with an exact description of what happens when you try to sign up.

            For the headlines, you're thinking in the right direction now, but stop trying to be so damn clever.

            If you enjoy writing that kind of stuff, start a novel as a hobby. Seriously.

            But this is sales writing. Clever doesn't work. Clarity does. Just imagine approaching someone on the street and saying what you're saying in these headlines. They'd think you were on drugs.

            Put yourself in that frame of mind, and keep working it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Imre
              Metaphorically speaking...

              "Stick'em up, gi me yur money"

              Clear enuff?

              "Just imagine approaching someone on the street and saying what you're saying in these headlines. They'd think you were on drugs."
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    This email could be improved if at least you teased us HOW you accomplished such amazing feats of business genius. Time to show us a little leg. Because right now it just sounds like a bunch of BS.

    - Rick Duris

    PS: For instance:

    "What we do is find the real buying reason and connect your product to it. Every-time, no exceptions."

    Instead...

    "Using a proprietary research process developed after decades of Fortune 500 project work, what we do is find the real buying reason and connect your product to it. Every-time, no exceptions."
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Imre
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      This email could be improved if at least you teased us HOW you accomplished such amazing feats of business genius. Time to show us a little leg. Because right now it just sounds like a bunch of BS.

      - Rick Duris

      PS: For instance:

      "What we do is find the real buying reason and connect your product to it. Every-time, no exceptions."

      Instead...

      "Using a proprietary research process developed after decades of Fortune 500 project work, what we do is find the real buying reason and connect your product to it. Every-time, no exceptions."
      Thanks Rick, sound advice - I'll fine tune it. I'll put up a revised email tomorrow.
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Originally Posted by Imre View Post

        Thanks Rick, sound advice - I'll fine tune it. I'll put up a revised email tomorrow.
        I'm glad you took the advice the way I intended.

        PS: Most marketers come here saying they want a critique. But what they really want is an "attaboy".

        When the feedback is negative, they get all bent outta shape. They focus on how WE communicated our criticism.

        We're copywriters, damn it. We should know how to communicate more empathetically.

        They don't get it. You do, Imre. Good on you.
        Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author Imre
          Hi Rick,

          I have thick skin and try to keep my ego in me pocket. It's results I'm lookin to fetch.

          Based on your and Ross' most recent feedback I made some changes. Lil harder than I thought cause 'WWII T-5 tank meets Computer scientist" ideas kept popping into my mind... Think I'll do that nextn:

          Dear Rick,

          If you’ve ever had an awesome product but sales just didn’t click, or had a competitor’s inferior product cheat failure and kick your butt...

          Then customer emotional buying triggers surely negatively impacted your campaign, and positively your competitors...

          The simple truth is, 95% of all purchase are made to address an EMOTIONAL need or want… Now you can isolate those needs, match them to your product, and increase your sales 30% or more… Much more!

          Now check this out, here’s what we can do for you using that exact approach:

          • Up to 400% increase in sales... 70-80% typical
          • Proven exactly sixteen times 100% on target in 16 tries
          • Absolute HIGHEST ROI, even for small promotions
          • Results in only TWO WEEKS start to finish
          • You SAVE TIME and headache, WE DO THE WORK

          … Yet it actually COSTS LESS than other methods.

          And another thing, this proven methodology took 5 years to develop and is backed by scientific Nobel Prize winning research on behavioral economics

          Of course you don’t need to be a Nobel genius to understand it. Mark Twain summed up the concept perfectly: "There are two reasons a man buys anything - The reason he can tell his wife, and the real reason."


          What we can do for you find the real buying reason and connect your product to it. Every-time, no exceptions.

          So, what’s next? Well. we have a special FREE offer for you, it’s a $10,000-20,000 service and you can get more information here:<Connect YOUR product with THEIR emotions>

          Warmest personal regards,



          Ak Tolnai, CEO Ability Matrix
          Imre Homer, Ability Matrix, President U.S. Division

          PS: My only concern is that your product connects 100% on target to your prospects’ emotional sweet-spot. Take advantage of our special < FREE > offer. Jaws may drop. Competitors may be envious. People may talk. You can’t lose.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
    Rick's right... open the kimono a touch! I wanna see flesh!

    And also, get someone who can write copy to help you, because your writing isn't clear enough. It's jumbled and the sentence construction is v.poor.

    --- Ross
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    • Profile picture of the author Imre
      Hi Ross, yeah, let's see if I can make it flow a lil smoother

      Thanks!

      Imre
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    It's better, Imre.

    But here's the thing. Would your list really appreciate an email like that?

    I doubt it.

    It reads like a magazine display ad. It's not conversational. Might work as a solo ad.

    I know you're just trying to put your best foot forward. But gotta write to your audience.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author Imre
      I thought you might say that. Really

      Admittedly it's been an awful long time (like 15 years long) since I've done stuff like this. My concern about being conversational is (was?) it increase length AND you can't so much see the bottom-line jus by looking at it.

      Kinda like a display ad.

      My formula back then which worked really well, was a short intro of a paragraph or so, then I'd mention that my concern is people in your situation often...

      And list bullets that the people I'm looking for should be find important, relevant and interesting, then finish up with a coupla paragraphs to close.

      Perhaps it's that most ads were (are) so sucky that mine looked good. Importantly, at a glance my target market would see important and relevant bottom-line info

      That being said, me thinks I should write one that is conversational and the bottom-line version and split-test'em.

      I appreciate your input Rick, and I find it valuable...

      THANKS

      Imre
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    Imagine your best buddy in the world is sitting in the bar, crying into his beer.

    His company's numbers are sliding. The competitor's killing him. He doesn't know what to do. He mortgaged his underwear to put his kids through school.

    Good news? Your product has been proven to increase sales up to 400%!

    Talk to him. Convince him. Save him from drowning.
    Signature

    Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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    • Profile picture of the author Imre
      Hi Angie,

      Sage advice !

      I see your tagline is "For women only"... Although I did have long hair maany years ago, I'm not of the better, fairer, and smarter sex...

      That's right, I'm a guy

      A few months back John Carlton had a free 'mini course' - the name esapes me right now (Writing Course?) - And I got a "That's not bad Imre" from John hisself.

      Buut, I got it for writing per your (his) suggestion... That is "talk to him over, in his beer".

      Now in my feeble mind's-eye, if he is crying into his beer that He's bout's to lose his shirt, and undies even, then...

      My short, direct, bottom-line version should do the trick to get him to respond.

      Which I see now, I didn mention this is a lead generator, and they would get a regular stream of important and relevant emails. But that's another story.

      Please reference my reply to Rick for my further 'rationalization'.

      All kidding aside, Angie I do appreciate your suggestion and...

      Bellies with balls?

      Ball sports are so cool...

      Imre
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    C'mon, man. Would you really go bottom line with your best friend? I think you're rationalizing quite a bit, m'dear.

    Definitely do test the versions though.

    And it's Belles, not Bellies.
    Signature

    Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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    • Profile picture of the author Imre
      Ooops, Belles - I'm 60 and thinks my vision is slipping...

      Yes test. We have 2 hats - friend, and biz owner.

      Thanks for the heads up

      When I hear "m'dear", I'm usually in over my head...

      Imre
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      • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
        Originally Posted by Imre View Post

        Ooops, Belles - I'm 60 and thinks my vision is slipping...

        Yes test. We have 2 hats - friend, and biz owner.

        Thanks for the heads up

        When I hear "m'dear", I'm usually in over my head...

        Imre
        LOL I'm from Texas. M'dear (along with sweetie, darlin', sugar, etc.) is just a term we use.

        You should only be afraid if I use "bless your heart" or start vehemently swearing at you. Regular swearing means you're OK in my book. Dickhead is also a term of endearment in Angie-land.

        Joking aside, I keep pointing this out because I see you digging in your heels and that could be problematic.

        You have great benefits from what little I know about your product. But keep in mind that people buy emotionally, THEN justify with logic.

        Is he excited that his leads will increase that much?
        Is he desperate for a promotion?
        Is he afraid he'll lose his job/company/house/family?

        That's what Seth and Rick are talking about with joining their conversation.

        I'll frame it another way. We're taking you out of it this time.

        Your best buddy is in a bar crying over his beer. You're doing your best to console him, nothing to sell.

        One random stranger sitting nearby hears him, says, "man that really sucks. I experienced XYZ too and this is how I coped. It actually turned out better than expected because of ABC. Let me get you my card and I'll tell you all about it. Maybe it'll do great things for you too?"

        Another random stranger overhears the same convo and comes over, "man, you could be out of that jam in no time with my proven system that will blah blah blah blah."

        Who does your buddy talk to?
        Signature

        Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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  • Profile picture of the author wtemradio
    Not that I know everything there is to know (unless I'm peeved when you happen to ask), but something's bothering me...

    Imre mentioned that he wants to sell to business owners, and B2B. Not something I have experience with, but doesn't excess hype tend to work against you in that arena?

    Then of course, there's a line between hype and being informative (and being pushy vs. being so obscure nobody gets anything).

    Just wondering about the intricacies of selling B2B and the OP's intended audience for this product. Isn't a CEO's mindset slightly different from the main street barber's? People are still people who want something--but is there some kind of a nuanced approach that could be taken here?

    There's the power of story already mentioned, but maybe I've said too much already...

    Ty M.
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    • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
      Originally Posted by wtemradio View Post

      Not that I know everything there is to know (unless I'm peeved when you happen to ask), but something's bothering me...

      Imre mentioned that he wants to sell to business owners, and B2B. Not something I have experience with, but doesn't excess hype tend to work against you in that arena?

      Then of course, there's a line between hype and being informative (and being pushy vs. being so obscure nobody gets anything).

      Just wondering about the intricacies of selling B2B and the OP's intended audience for this product. Isn't a CEO's mindset slightly different from the main street barber's? People are still people who want something--but is there some kind of a nuanced approach that could be taken here?

      There's the power of story already mentioned, but maybe I've said too much already...

      Ty M.
      It all depends on who you're talking to, how they define the problem which your product or service solves AND, most important, the REAL pain behind it.

      There are definitely differences between B2B and B2C in terms of the decision making process, but you're still selling to a human being. The better you understand their problem and the better job you do at duplicating the conversation going on in their mind, the faster they'll let their guard down and give your message a chance.

      I believe Angie nailed it. What's the "3am beer conversation" you'd have with this person? You know, after they'd knocked down a few cold ones, quieted all the social static floating around in their head and really started to openly ranting, bitch or moan about? What are they saying?

      More important, how would you respond if you KNEW you had the answer and you have ONE SHOT to motivate them to act? You've got to close them before they get up and leave the bar.

      What would you say?
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      • Profile picture of the author wtemradio
        Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

        It all depends on who you're talking to, how they define the problem which your product or service solves AND, most important, the REAL pain behind it.

        There are definitely differences between B2B and B2C in terms of the decision making process, but you're still selling to a human being. The better you understand their problem and the better job you do at duplicating the conversation going on in their mind, the faster they'll let their guard down and give your message a chance.

        I believe Angie nailed it. What's the "3am beer conversation" you'd have with this person? You know, after they'd knocked down a few cold ones, quieted all the social static floating around in their head and really started to openly ranting, bitch or moan about? What are they saying?

        More important, how would you respond if you KNEW you had the answer and you have ONE SHOT to motivate them to act? You've got to close them before they get up and leave the bar.

        What would you say?
        Hi Seth.

        I'd speak the language of results, as it related to solving that big problem in their business (and maybe deeper, if that same problem had spilled over into their life as well). And I'd talk a bit about ease of use or implementation of the product or service, among other things. But that would all come later on, after I'd listened well.

        I guess I got a bit sidetracked by the specter of B2B's decision-making process--a bit of the forest-for-the-trees scenario. I kept seeing committees, approval documents, and multiple "sign here, and here, and here" scenes in my head.

        But yes, people are still people. And CEOs still cry in their beer--although more forcefully, because of the demands placed on them in regard to their responsibilities over so many other people.

        That's only my opinion, however.

        Ty M.
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        • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
          Originally Posted by wtemradio View Post

          But that would all come later on, after I'd listened well.
          And here is the most important point.

          But this is not a conversation, as it's written.

          So in this case your listening, as it were, is research.

          It's not assuming that approaching him or her with facts and figures is the end all be all solution.

          It's finding out WHY they want those things, and using that info to join the conversation.

          No one wants to do business with the jackass that comes to the networking meeting and just hands out his cards to everyone.

          People want to do business with people they like.

          Facts and figures don't make you likeable.

          Conversation does.
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          • Profile picture of the author Imre
            Hi Angie,

            "But this is not a conversation, as it's written."

            True. The idea is information and education. Years ago I would seek out business owners with $400,000 to $5,000,000 in sales. And that were profitable. Usually they were older. Preinternet, and I dealt with the owner...

            Actually I am a likeable guy. But what I found that the likeable part was important AFTER I had something valuable to say. And I did make a coupla hundred thou several different years. Which back then went a bit farther than today

            Whether that's the best approach today is a good question.

            And I have struggled with who exactly to write to. A Fortune 500 CMO is different than a struggling frelancer or small biz is diff from a profitable small biz

            It's a fairly expensive service and I'm leaning (again) to profitable smaller biz's who simply want to do better than someone trying to save his shorts

            Thanks again for your help. It is appreciated,

            Imre
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        • Profile picture of the author Imre
          wtem radio,

          Now this... I like it a lot:

          "I'd speak the language of results, as it related to solving that big problem in their business (and maybe deeper, if that same problem had spilled over into their life as well). And I'd talk a bit about ease of use or implementation of the product or service, among other things. But that would all come later on, after I'd listened well."

          THANKS !

          Imre
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    Sounds like you're looking for more of an attaboy than advice.
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    • Profile picture of the author Imre
      Angie,

      Who can tell...

      But I'll take all the advice I can get. I am redoing accordingly

      Imre
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      • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
        Originally Posted by Imre View Post

        Angie,

        Who can tell...

        But I'll take all the advice I can get. I am redoing accordingly

        Imre
        Don't get caught in the endless revisions cycle. If you're convinced that the direction you've gone is a winner, throw it out there and start making sales.

        The market will tell you whether it's a winner.
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        • Profile picture of the author Imre
          Angie, you may be interested to hear about a stunning secret discovered by a brilliant Hungarian computer scientist...

          it may be the solution to your concerns, particularly your sales numbers…

          he’s truly cracked the code connecting a product’s features to a prospect’s buying emotions…

          Initial use cases generated a white hot 400% boost in sales within 30 days...
          product flew off the shelves like pillaged goods...

          it’s easy to implement and virtually guarantees the success of your next promotion

          Interestingly, the breakthrough came from a soviet spy’s chilling accounts as he revealed the psychological and scientific interrogation, brainwashing, and perception manipulation techniques used in the KGB building up the street from him...

          it blew my mind… Here’s my card if you like to know more
          -------------------

          Does this concept have legs?

          Angie, I felt a little disconnect with my initial version. Which is why I'm so thrilled with the help I've gotten here, the above text is my response to the following, and...

          His company's numbers are sliding. The competitor's killing him. He doesn't know what to do. He mortgaged his underwear to put his kids through school.

          One random stranger sitting nearby hears him, says, "man that really sucks. I experienced XYZ too and this is how I coped. It actually turned out better than expected because of ABC. Let me get you my card and I'll tell you all about it. Maybe it'll do great things for you too?"

          I try keep open for 'cracks' in situations, I run down those cracks and sometimes the more I run the more I get.

          This is all true. The Hungarian KGB building had hundreds of people taken in alive and out dead. Thousands (including relatives) from there sent to Siberia. Post WWII life in this Iron Bloc after an attempted violent overthrow of the communist regime.

          We escaped because my father was a dept head at the Hungarian National Museum, he publicly spoke against the communist regime and did not become a member of the party. His work was a couple of hundred yards from the Hungarian KGB (called the AVO)

          So... real life stories might be the trigger I'm looking for, being mindful to:

          speak the language of results, as it related to solving that big problem in their business (and maybe deeper, if that same problem had spilled over into their life as well). And I'd talk a bit about ease of use or implementation of the product or service, among other things. But that would all come later on, after I'd listened well."
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        • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
          Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

          Don't get caught in the endless revisions cycle. If you're convinced that the direction you've gone is a winner, throw it out there and start making sales.

          The market will tell you whether it's a winner.
          That's a good point.

          Igor Stravinsky re-orchestrated one section of "The Rite of Spring" nearly 20 times, before he finally said:

          "I still don't have it right, but I've got to move on."

          Today, it's one of the most celebrated, studied and loved ballets in the world of classical music.

          Ask 100 fans of his music to listen to that piece and find the part he's talking about (without knowing the exact measure numbers of course). My bet is they can't...and I I doubt they care anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    I like the history angle, but your pendulum is swinging from boring to over-hyped.

    Over-use of fluff adjectives can lead to a feeling of hype and "this smells like BS".

    Would you really talk to your best friend about white hot sales and KGB secrets? Or would you just tell him your story and what happened next?

    I keep asking you the same questions because you're having trouble taking off your sales hat and answering the questions I've posed like you'd talk to a friend.

    I'm willing to bet if you memorized that script and said it out loud to your friend, they'd look at you like you were high.

    Have a conversation. Let the excitement of your own experience and faith in the product seep through and get you really fired up about how it's changed your life. If it's as good a solution as you say, you don't have to sell it quite so hard.
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    • Profile picture of the author Imre
      Thanks Angie. Actually I put in more than I intended to use - easier to edit out than in - but based on your your observation I'll take even more out. But a few is good, and I do use'm

      I was going to mention that. Honest.

      Thanks again,

      Imre
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Classic case of "too many cooks" resulting in the copy spinning out of control. That whole KGB thing...the tanks...fall of Communism...the "Do I feel lucky?" crap - nobody gives a flying you-know-what about any of that.

    Cut to the chase - what do you have?...what does it do?...how is it going to improve my miserable life?...how much is it?...where do I get it?

    The rest is just window-dressing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Imre
      Copy Nazi,

      You live up to your name!
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  • Profile picture of the author Imre
    ... And by the way - Curiosity, fear, anger, revenge, different...

    Some reasons for stuff like that - it can work well
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