will this hurt Amazon?

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I ordered a product from Amazon on Jan 20...immediately after I ordered it the 'ship time' extended by 10 days... That told me 'shipped from China'.

I was given a false FedEx 'tracking number' on Feb 1 - meanwhile the seller updated the 'amazon tracking' little by little as if the package had been sent.

Last Monday the 'tracking' changed to 'delivery by Thursday 8 pm'....didn't happen. Fedex has never heard of the tracking number - no message from the seller about any problem.

Sent message to seller last night - answer today is below.

Affected by a novel coronavirus,Delivery time will be delayed, The first time we Incoming the product, we will use this waybill number to send you. Your understanding and support will be highly appreciated.
I'd be totally understanding about the delay had the company not lied to me for 3 weeks by providing false shipping information.

I can wait - this is a personalized item and eventually it will arrive or I will get a refund one way or another.

It seems some Chinese sellers on Amazon (a significant share of amazon sellers) are not warning buyers of delays - are not refusing orders if they can't ship - are giving fake shipping info to sellers....

Amazon (US, at least) is talking to sellers about delays caused by the pandemic - nothing is being done to alert buyers or require sellers to provide info about delay to buyers.

What effect might this have on Amazon's business - is it affecting YOUR Amazon business if you drop ship from Chinese suppliers?
#amazon #hurt
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Re: will this hurt Amazon?

    IMO, it will hurt Amazon if it becomes a major loss of profits and Amazon continues to let it happen.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      IMO, it will hurt Amazon if it becomes a major loss of profits and Amazon continues to let it happen.
      And what exactly do you expect Amazon to do about it?

      For the most part there are no flights in or out of China.. Hasn't been for 2 weeks now? No flights means no mail. ( and lets not forget the country has been on vacation for 2 weeks regardless of the virus - so the same issue at lessor scale would have happened ) THIS issue is at such scale there is really nothing that can be done.

      I order way to much stuff from China.. and I am dealing with my wholesalers on just short of a daily basis to re-assure them that I understand the situation and as soon as they are able to ship the orders... and I keep placing orders.

      The bottom line is there is not a dang thing they can do, or that I can do to make this any better.

      A better level of communication maybe? Amazon knows damn well which products are coming from China and could site wide place a banner warning of escalated ship times. But in the world of commerce this equates to customers going else where to order. In the end there are only 2 options here, get the order and ship when they can, or say they are unable to ship and lose the sale all together.

      So the solution that seems to be in the majority is to do nothing - and play it out and hope the receiving end understands.
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  • Profile picture of the author IGotMine
    What effect might this have on Amazon's business
    If it has any negative effect they will spin it into a positive for Amazon. Masters of spin and manipulation of the masses they are. It will probably include a "donation" of some sort.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    And what exactly do you expect Amazon to do about it?

    I would expect Amazon to post an announcement about the shipping problem to avoid buyer complaints....or to require sellers in China to post accurate shipping information or statements about delays. To me, that makes sense. That would be a pro-active way to manage a situation Amazon can't control.



    I understand the delays - it's a valid reason - But that doesn't excuse false shipping dates given - invalid tracking numbers sent to buyers, listing 'delivery time on XX day' when the sellers know the product has not left china.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

    IMO, it will hurt Amazon if it becomes a major loss of profits and Amazon continues to let it happen.
    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

    And what exactly do you expect Amazon to do about it?

    For the most part there are no flights in or out of China.. Hasn't been for 2 weeks now? No flights means no mail. ( and lets not forget the country has been on vacation for 2 weeks regardless of the virus - so the same issue at lessor scale would have happened ) THIS issue is at such scale there is really nothing that can be done.

    I order way to much stuff from China.. and I am dealing with my wholesalers on just short of a daily basis to re-assure them that I understand the situation and as soon as they are able to ship the orders... and I keep placing orders.

    The bottom line is there is not a dang thing they can do, or that I can do to make this any better.

    A better level of communication maybe? Amazon knows damn well which products are coming from China and could site wide place a banner warning of escalated ship times. But in the world of commerce this equates to customers going else where to order. In the end there are only 2 options here, get the order and ship when they can, or say they are unable to ship and lose the sale all together.

    So the solution that seems to be in the majority is to do nothing - and play it out and hope the receiving end understands.
    True, Amazon cannot control the virus, but that is not the point. I repeat.. that is not the point!

    The point is Amazon can control who they allow to sell on their platform.


    You are a savvy and educated businessman and IMO after following your posts on this forum, if you owned Amazon and your sellers intentionally deceive your customers resulting in loss of brand equity and became a major loss of profits you would not allow it to happen.

    I also believe that you would not allow your sellers to intentionally deceive your customers for any reason.

    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    I would expect Amazon to post an announcement about the shipping problem to avoid buyer complaints....or to require sellers in China to post accurate shipping information or statements about delays. To me, that makes sense. That would be a pro-active way to manage a situation Amazon can't control.

    I get what you are saying and stand with you 100%.


    True, Amazon cannot control the virus. However, Amazon can control who they allow to sell on their platform.

    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    I understand the delays - it's a valid reason - But that doesn't excuse false shipping dates given - invalid tracking numbers sent to buyers, listing 'delivery time on XX day' when the sellers know the product has not left china.
    Exactly and that is also exactly how Amazon's customers would feel about it. People simply can take their business elsewhere.


    Don't get me wrong. I am not an Amazon hater. If anything, I am a Amazon advocate.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      The point is Amazon can control who they allow to sell on their platform.

      if you owned Amazon and your sellers intentionally deceive your customers resulting in loss of brand equity and became a major loss of profits you would not allow it to happen.

      I also believe that you would not allow your sellers to intentionally deceive your customers for any reason.

      Don't get me wrong. I am not an Amazon hater. If anything, I am a Amazon advocate.
      There is literally, probably a 10 minute programming fix to this issue - a banner that states to the effect that ALL orders that would ship from China given the current situation will be delayed. - its literally that simple.

      However... the business side of me totally understand why this has NOT been done. Not only on Amazon, but eBay, Alibaba, JD, and AliExpress just to name a few. These are probably the big 5 in terms sites that sell Chinese goods - from Chinese sellers

      Put yourself into the seat of your average consumer... they want to purchase a whatever it is, and they goto a site and there is a warning that the item will not ship right away... what does that consumer do? they go to the next site where the waring does not exist and make the purchase.

      What does Big Corporate America / China do in this case? Get the sale now, and deal with the process later - that is exactly how business at scale operates, and we are seeing that in full effect now.

      Because I am obviously more familiar with eBay... I am curious how this is all going to play out. I am wondering if eBay has not sent its Chinese Sellers an e-mail with some type of "Pass" in regards to time frame of shipping. It would seem to me there should be an awful lot of Chinese sellers with their store set to "Vacation" - and that simply is not the case.

      I believe you are allowed 3 packages in 6 months to be sent out of shipping time frame before eBay would impose an infraction on an account. The infraction includes loss of "Top Seller" rank, which means a higher shipping rate and elevated fees. It decreases your ability to rank in eBay search - and I have heard there is actually a penalty fee per item of an additional 4% that is imposed

      Keeping this in mind - we again look at what is actually happening on the platform and there simply has to be an amount of reassurances by eBay to its China based sellers.

      And again I think this goes back to my point that the big boys are just in it to get the money right now and deal with it as it happens vs not taking the money and potentially losing not just the sale now - but future sales down the road.

      And let me add... I'm really not disagreeing with you per se, I GET what you are saying, but that simply is NOT how it is playing out - and the way that it IS playing out I understand that side of it as well. There is simply the "Micro" look at me I'm a consumer vs the "Macro" 100,000 consumers a day.
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  • Profile picture of the author IGotMine
    However, Amazon can control who they allow to sell on their platform.
    And just like they did with their affiliate program, Amazon will eventually (when the negative feedback gets to the right level) flush their system. They will do it in a way that will make it look as though they are super-concerned about their customers.

    "In an effort to protect you our valued customers we have removed a bunch of slimy, cheap China junk sellers (who made us billions) from our platform. We are also donating 5% of anything you buy for the next week to those poor unfortunate Chinese people who are suffering. Just because we care so gosh darn much!

    Anyone care to give me odds that's how it will go down?

    Again,
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by IGotMine View Post

      Anyone care to give me odds that's how it will go down?
      I think its going to go down quite AF - nothing happened
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    However... the business side of me totally understand why this has NOT been done. Not only on Amazon, but eBay, Alibaba, JD, and AliExpress just to name a few. These are probably the big 5 in terms sites that sell Chinese goods - from Chinese sellers

    Will be curious see when or if my product arrives. I think it goes a bit deeper and often simple issues like this are the reason used for legislation down the line.


    Several of the suppliers you mention have comments on their sites - reassuring buyers that 'shipped packages are safe and do not carry the virus'....but medical experts say the length of time this particular virus might remain viable on the outside or inside of a package has not been fully tested yet. My guess is the sites are correct - but if they aren't...won't be pretty for drop shippers or suppliers.


    This is an interesting case study to me - of what can go wrong that is unexpected and can quickly spiral out of control.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Several of the suppliers you mention have comments on their sites - reassuring buyers that 'shipped packages are safe and do not carry the virus'...
      But again they are making re-assurances of safety but they are not mentioning that but for a very few packages are not leaving China because Postal people in China are not working - there is no method of transport in or out of China ( with exception of the ones capable of sending to Taiwan first )

      So basically they are saying it OK to buy.. but not telling you that you will not be getting it anytime soon - take the money and deal with it later.

      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      but medical experts say the length of time this particular virus might remain viable on the outside or inside of a package has not been fully tested yet. My guess is the sites are correct - but if they aren't...won't be pretty for drop shippers or suppliers.
      I think I saw somewhere that the life is 3 to 4 hours in its airborne state. I can tell you the packages that we have received that we are opening with rubber gloves has a very distinct "Odor" that I would presume is a disinfectant.

      IF this were to be an issue there would be outbreaks state side in Customs facilities and with delivery services ( USPS, UPS, FedEx, TNT, and DHL ) - and with this there would be package quarantining etc - it would be a mess

      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      This is an interesting case study to me - of what can go wrong that is unexpected and can quickly spiral out of control.
      The shear scale of this.. the largest Quarantine in WORLD history, in the largest export nation let alone largest population nation in the world. interesting indeed
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    UPDATE:


    After sending a complaint to the company and to Amazon - the chinese company was told to refund.


    They have told me they are refunding $5 of the $30 cost - for a product never shipped - but also blaming FedEx in a poor-English message which basically says they didn't ship the product and FedEx didn't deliver it.



    Just told Amazon what I think of it - we'll see.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Yep, interesting. Hopefully, Amazon will force the company to refund the full amount.



    Foreign companies have to learn that if they want to do business on another companies platform then the company has to use clear communications and take care of the platform's customers.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      Foreign companies have to learn that if they want to do business on another companies platform then the company has to use clear communications and take care of the platform's customers.
      The largest platforms in world level e-commerce is Alibaba and JD. Alibaba is so large that all the other big players combined still don't equate to the amount of commerce this company produces. Amazon and JD are about equal, and then eBay falls in about the 4th spot. Interestingly Shopify falls in 5th at about 1/3 the volume of eBay.

      Think about this for a moment On top you have Alibaba - Ali express is Alibaba but lets throw it into some amount of context... it is basically the eBay or Amazon of the machine that creates the worlds products.

      In regards to Chinese product you have this monsterous macro level Alibaba machine, you then have the micro level producer level outlet called Ali express. It is the micro level sellers from Ali Express that sell on eBay and Amazon... but keep in mind they are directly connected to The monster macro level Alibaba.

      What do you think happens if the Amazon's and eBays of the world say no more selling from China until this is fixed? I don't think anyone really wants to try and find out honestly - Watch some Jack Ma ( Founder of Alibaba ) interviews and you will better understand.

      There is just a ton at play here... obviously more than meets the eye. And yeah I totally agree it is turning out to be the worst balancing act ever... but I believe in the end that is what its coming down to... a Balance on the Corporate commerce end Vs balancing anything on the consumer end - At the end of the day consumers are lemmings and will continue to buy. ( sad but true )
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  • Profile picture of the author YALA YOLO
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    AMAZON WILL NOT BE AFFECT BYE THIS WHAT SO EVER

    Amazon got 22,000,000 million people selling on there platform

    Remember amazon collects $40 a month from 22million people now do the math per month...
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    AMAZON WILL NOT BE AFFECT BYE THIS WHAT SO EVER

    I learned quite a bit from this small problem. A member here helped by locating a site that tracks FedEx before it reaches the USA. Explained the $5 'refund' is due to late arrival which makes sense but is not what the 'awkward English' messages explained.


    I don't care how many sellers Amazon has - if buyers lose trust, it's a problem. This current delay in getting goods from China could help sellers make plans for the next - and perhaps longer - disruption.



    What I learned from a drop shipping member in this thread could have been easily explained by the seller - or as a simple notice from Amazon.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I learned quite a bit from this small problem. A member here helped by locating a site that tracks FedEx before it reaches the USA. Explained the $5 'refund' is due to late arrival which makes sense but is not what the 'awkward English' messages explained.

      I don't care how many sellers Amazon has - if buyers lose trust, it's a problem. This current delay in getting goods from China could help sellers make plans for the next - and perhaps longer - disruption.

      What I learned from a drop shipping member in this thread could have been easily explained by the seller - or as a simple notice from Amazon.

      Which, to me, that means neither the seller and Amazon were proactive meaning they did not have the foresight to identify the potential problem and take action to rectify the problem.


      Honestly, I think Amazon had the foresight, can't speak for the seller.


      Business decision? Take the money and let chips land where they may? Its a sad world when that decision is made.
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

        Which, to me, that means neither the seller and Amazon were proactive meaning they did not have the foresight to identify the potential problem and take action to rectify the problem.
        This is very true when looking at this from a buyers perspective. As a seller the last thing you want is a middle man IE Amazon or eBay to become proactive after the sale. Reactive yes - proactive no.

        In part, some of this issue is actually a fault of the platform ( Amazon ). When you order product that comes from an Amazon warehouse ( FBA - Fulfillment By Amazon ) a Tracking number is provided from a shipment provider that most people know where to track from. When sellers provide the shipping the system falls apart quickly - and then add the fact that Shipment from China is - well - confusing at best.

        Just a quick interject - eBay on the other hand, only provides seller based fulfillment and their tracking system is built in and much easier to use. Granted with China based sellers the tracking number provided is not always trackable on the China side of movement, but generally once it hits the States it pops up.

        So back to Amazon... Because of the Seller Fulfillment aspect once the order is made it is then up to the seller to provide any and all information. Amazon will only enter the picture "Reactively" if the customer contacts them in regard to the sale, as seen in this instance.

        I personally am a very customer service oriented person / business owner. In general in terms of e-commerce if there is any kind of hick-up with delivery, we will send an e-mail.

        I find business' from China that ship items to lack the same amount of detail. A simple link to the site that actually tracks the method of shipment they are using ( and they have like 100 options btw ) would go a long way. In the last 6 months we have made over 500 orders from China and not a one have included this.

        The flip side of this - and Kay correct me if I am wrong - is most deliveries from China requires at a minimum of 2 carriers. You can look at the label on the package and you will see where there is a label on top of another. I believe the lower label gets it to a port internally ( within China ) and the second is the from China to destination lag of the trip. Throw in Fed-ex smart post and there maybe 3 labels in total IE 3 tracking numbers could be possible.

        So from the sellers perspective, YES they could help this process - by including a link to 17track.net as an example. I believe all of Kay's issues - well would not have been an issue by adding this little step. ( this very idea will make very good content for my new website LOL )

        Now onto the whole $5.00 thing. I don't think most Sellers know about this. I don't think not only your average but better than average buyer knows about this. I have never had this situation play out before personally ( delivery outside of expected delivery ) - but I believe it is Amazon and eBay that actually pays the $5.00 and they do not recoup that from the seller.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    The flip side of this - and Kay correct me if I am wrong - is most deliveries from China requires at a minimum of 2 carriers. You can look at the label on the package and you will see where there is a label on top of another. I believe the lower label gets it to a port internally ( within China ) and the second is the from China to destination lag of the trip. Throw in Fed-ex smart post and there maybe 3 labels in total IE 3 tracking numbers could be possible.

    So from the sellers perspective, YES they could help this process - by including a link to 17track.net as an example. I believe all of Kay's issues - well would not have been an issue by adding this little step. ( this very idea will make very good content for my new website LOL )
    ..and thank YOU for sending me a link for tracking and explaining some of this to me. It doesn't matter what anyone has done 'online' - there are always things we don't know. At least that's true for me...a lot.

    I received the product today! I think you are right about THREE labels. There is one from China to US - then an 'entry point' with another label...and THAT label is used by Amazon/ebay/etc a 'shipped from' point.

    Then third label 2-3 days before item is received It's amazing to me that people come up with such convoluted systems.

    This particular sender is now sending 'notices' to those who order about potential delays out of their control - they sent me a message agreeing that buyers need to be informed. Kudos to them.
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