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So--I am literally at the point I just cant do this myself. I need to outsource tasks. I have a team of 5 I am all giving slices of the project (involving product uploads, image cropping etc) and comparing their work. I am sure I am going to let 1 go, another was let go today. I will add two more tomorrow and keep working it this way until I have a solid team.

What do you outsource when it comes to ecommerce? I am going to have someone create my social media graphics ahead of time (about 80), my product uploads, my email newsletter and I may have someone compile my orders.

Does anyone have a PA or VA working for them? What do they do?

Writing up directions and monitoring the work seems like a job in itself. And how do you monitore the time? I feel with a few ---they always say a project takes 6-7 hours and I think that is B.S. Reason why I am having several people work on the same project split up---to compare.

I run specifically eCommerce site and I am getting ready to snowball big time--and I need to get ready. Tired of working 80 hour a week on everything when I really only want to focus on sales and marketing--my true passion.
#outsourcing
  • Profile picture of the author Hampton44
    the five are not fulltime--these are all doing small 2-3 hour projects a few times a week.
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  • Profile picture of the author redlegrich
    Check out John Jonas and his site replacemyself.com. He has a lot of good advice and resources. He focuses on PI based folks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
    Make a list of functions that need to be done each day, and current projects that have a start and an end. Hire a project manager, and then 2 people under them.

    Most all outsourced employees need to be micromanaged which is a huge task itself. In my experience, things that should take 1 hour might take 8, because you get 7 hours of excuses. Also, 5 employees who only offer something like 4 hours of employees each week is more expensive in terms of the return on your investment if you hired 1 manager and 1 part time employee.

    I work in eCommerce as well, and my main warehouse and office is located in China. In the beginning, much like you, I thought I could function by having a couple small part time employees and I could manage them myself and save money. So I might have been paying for 40 hours of labor between 4 employees and was getting fustrated because it always seemed like I was the only one working... it was because I was the only one working. I was essentially just self employed, and it sucked. Even though I didn't see myself being able to afford it, and it seemed silly, I took the advice of other business owners and hired 1 employee to offer 36 hours a week, and 1 employee to manage the tasks and delegate between myself and that employee, whom only made about 10% more than the employee below them. Work started getting done and there were times in the beginning that they got bored. My business picked up because I was able to dedicate more of my own time into product sourcing and CRM. 1 year later I can inbound, house, and outbound 2000 packages a day (which includes taking photos, editing, and storing them in a database).

    People on here think you can throw $70 USD a month to someone in the Philippines and all of their work related problems will be gone. It's a myth, and as far as paying for assistance, you really get what you pay for more so than any other investment you can make.
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  • Profile picture of the author MKaren
    Originally Posted by Hampton44 View Post


    Does anyone have a PA or VA working for them? What do they do?

    Writing up directions and monitoring the work seems like a job in itself. And how do you monitore the time? I feel with a few ---they always say a project takes 6-7 hours and I think that is B.S. Reason why I am having several people work on the same project split up---to compare.

    I run specifically eCommerce site and I am getting ready to snowball big time--and I need to get ready. Tired of working 80 hour a week on everything when I really only want to focus on sales and marketing--my true passion.
    Hi hampton,

    Basically when you outsource you get a project manager to talked with about the specific of your project. and that person will implement it accordingly

    For the pricing of your project, you need to give it at a fix rate so that you know your following your budget.

    More likely the person will ask for a downpayment, try to deal it base on the progress your seeing on your project.for example you have 100 of uploads per month, after 25 upload your going to give the 25% of the rate and so on and so forth..

    hope my small insight helps
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  • Profile picture of the author Hampton44
    Thanks for the advice---I am still in revamp mode--so alot of the tasks right now are just set up tasks. But I like the project manager and one assistant idea. This is what I can see in 2 months--just need to push through this next month.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hampton44
    I am probably moving too slow--but when you are outsourcing are you using ODesk etc? What is the average pay for Project Manager?
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    • Profile picture of the author alastairevans
      Originally Posted by Hampton44 View Post

      I am probably moving too slow--but when you are outsourcing are you using ODesk etc? What is the average pay for Project Manager?
      It depends how hands on you want to be. I used to have a PM whom I paid $3 an hour. Incredible right! But I had to training her and there was some hand holding in the beginning. However, if you find someone with common sense, a good work ethic and problem solving skills (the more I outsource, the more I realize how many talented people there are out there...) you can train them up quite quickly.

      Otherwise, a good PM whom is ready to go right from the off, will probably be between $7 - $10. That's my experience anyway.

      Hope that helps...
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    • Profile picture of the author MKaren
      Originally Posted by Hampton44 View Post

      I am probably moving too slow--but when you are outsourcing are you using ODesk etc? What is the average pay for Project Manager?
      $3/hour would be the average, I used Odesk for technical task and been in odesk for years now and its good way to start.
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      • Profile picture of the author BrainCandy
        You can use Odesk services for your Outsourcing tasks. You can find people there according to your budget and you can have the overview of their previous work they have done so far.
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        Outsourcing is becoming a way of life

        Outsourcing provide you leisure time, more profits and reduced costs.
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  • Profile picture of the author monstrapecuniam
    I am also reaching the point where outsourcing is unavoidable. In fact, I outsource so many of my projects, that I need an on-site manager for the sole purpose of coordinating all of them. Whilst all contractors are overseas (not only in low-pay countries!), I find that the manager must come to my office in order for the job to be efficient.
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  • Profile picture of the author BamaGuy
    I found that when I offered to pay by the hour, I saw people taking longer than they should have. Once I was taken advantage of a couple of times, I started to pay per project or per bulk projects. For instance, if you know it takes 5 minutes to crop a photo then they should crop 20 an hour. So now you will pay them $3 to crop 20 photos instead of paying them $3 an hour to crop 5 photos.

    Once you show them you know how long it will take, then they will quickly start cropping 40 photos an hour to make $6.
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    • Profile picture of the author monstrapecuniam
      Originally Posted by BamaGuy View Post

      I found that when I offered to pay by the hour, I saw people taking longer than they should have.
      Yes and no. In our business, some procedures are so specific that they require some training period. During that time, I sometimes pay my workers an hourly rate, but I keep explaining to them what is the production goal. Once I am satisfied that they understood and learnt, I switch over to the "pay per result" model.

      Finding good staff that accept to start working per result is difficult; but if they understand that the goal is achievable, you will have their attention.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hampton44
    Yes--I prefer to pay by the project instead of by the hour. But not everyone prefers to be paid this way. Actually--once I am through with this week's of work, I won't have too much to outsource with my data entry people and will need to switch to writers. I think I am going to work with all the people who I am outsourcing to---and in about 2 months I will see where I am at. I am still a teeny tiny player in this game. But hopefully not for long. But this is all information to keep in the back of my head.

    Thanks for the help and I am sure I will be back!
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  • I think you first have to ask yourself what your goal is with outsourcing. Do you want to outsource everything or do you want to keep a portion of your operations yourself? Because if you really want outsourcing to work for you, you have to be in the right mindset for it.

    If you want to continue micromanaging your business, that's fine. A lot of business owners prefer it that way. But you have to be ready to work long hours because that's the price you have to pay for all that control.

    But if you want to outsource your business to the point that you have more time for yourself, then you'll need to change your mindset. It's not just about getting a project manager. It's about getting a person that you trust, a person that you know and you've trained to do everything that needs to be done in your business. It's about getting a person who knows your business as well as you do and has the same standards as you do. Someone who is just as invested in helping your business grow and thrive.

    This is possible when you hire a VA, but you do have to invest a lot of time and effort. But once you do find the right person, the work will all be worth it. And it's actually good that you're starting now because once your business grows you may not have the time or patience to train anyone in the future.

    To give you a better idea of what I'm talking about, I suggest you watch this video. John explains it better here:Introductory video on outsourcing to the Philippines
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    • Profile picture of the author CynthiaAngel
      Originally Posted by John Jonas Phil VA View Post

      I think you first have to ask yourself what your goal is with outsourcing. Do you want to outsource everything or do you want to keep a portion of your operations yourself? Because if you really want outsourcing to work for you, you have to be in the right mindset for it.

      If you want to continue micromanaging your business, that's fine. A lot of business owners prefer it that way. But you have to be ready to work long hours because that's the price you have to pay for all that control.

      But if you want to outsource your business to the point that you have more time for yourself, then you'll need to change your mindset. It's not just about getting a project manager. It's about getting a person that you trust, a person that you know and you've trained to do everything that needs to be done in your business. It's about getting a person who knows your business as well as you do and has the same standards as you do. Someone who is just as invested in helping your business grow and thrive.

      This is possible when you hire a VA, but you do have to invest a lot of time and effort. But once you do find the right person, the work will all be worth it. And it's actually good that you're starting now because once your business grows you may not have the time or patience to train anyone in the future.

      To give you a better idea of what I'm talking about, I suggest you watch this video. John explains it better here:Introductory video on outsourcing to the Philippines
      This response is so on point with what I am currently going through. I have about 5 people working for me from the Philippines and even though they are doing their work, it is so much work so manage them, and then check their tasks to make sure that it is properly done. It is so time consuming to follow up with people and check on them. In addition, to doing all the other things I am suppose to do.

      I have finally decided that I will hire an intern to come in for 10 hours a week, that will help serve as a project manager.
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  • Profile picture of the author HzCy
    Outsourcing is my best tip for everyone. I outsource everything I can. Minimizing time, maximizing profits. Check out fiverr, pretty cheap possibilities to outsource.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hampton44
    Thanks John for the advice--I believe my personality and the way I interact with my customers via social media, online chat etc really sets me apart from the competition. Visually--my graphics etc have a very unique twist. I need to figure out how to give the personal touch of "me" with "me" being there. I prefer to be hands on, but then again working 10 hour a day is not how I plan on spending the entire next year--at least not running one ecommerce site. As soon as I am ready, I will look at this.
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  • Profile picture of the author iLiaison
    Hampton, I am a project manager that outsources work. I am located in Toronto, Ontario.
    Add me on skype and I can take care of your issues. My company also has a professional web developer to look over the work being done by our partners overseas.
    i-Liaison.com WebDesign SEO Logos
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  • Profile picture of the author Trucker
    I can help with product uploading, all possible data entry activities, order processing, social media branding.

    Can add me to skype anytime..
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  • Profile picture of the author yakim1
    Hi Hampton,

    Here is what I do when I outsource. I'm creating a very large content management software and I have one main programmer that works for $10 an hour and documents all his time.

    I only give him one project at a time to do. When I need other things done, I contact other programmers who have done things for me.

    1. I create a pdf explaining exactly what I want the other programmers to do.

    2. I know just about how long it takes to do a project because like you I use to do all the work myself. So in the pdf I state exactly what the job will pay. They have to complete the job including any revisions that do not follow my outline before I pay them.

    3. I send the pdf out to the a programmer asking if he will accept the job. If not I send the same pdf to another programmer.

    4. I also give a deadline that the programmer has to adhire to. If the deadline is not met, I can pay less or not pay at all and give the job to another programmer. There are just a few times the deadline is not met and if the reason is a good techical hard to solve problem I will pay the original agreed amout.

    The important part is that you have done all the work your self, so you know how long the task should take. This gives you the ability to demand a completion time frame.

    After someone has worked for you under these conditions, they know just what you expect. If they stay around to work more jobs then you propably have a good VA to hold on to.

    I hope this helps,
    Steve Yakim
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  • Profile picture of the author Audarah
    I just wanted to butt in here and say I am proud of you, and I dont even know you. By the way,I did get your email ( TODAY!!) I am so so sorry for that. I didnt realize people could message under here lol. But anyways, I feel your pain, I really do. I have been saying to my husband that I needed help. He knows not the first thing about ecommerce, so he isnt the person to go to AND I havent even launched, so I havent made any money yet. But the adding products, changing descriptions, making sure SKU and Prices are right, adding THOSE to my database I keep in excel, making sure the opt ins are working, the ordering system is working, etc etc etc is just driving me crazy. I havent slept for weeks now and when I do, I am dreaming about uploading CSV or product images or fighting again with a code. ICK! I know eventually, that I will have to hire help as well considering I have three niche stores in mind. I have been working for two solid months and dont even have the first store done yet and haven't even STARTED on the other two. Even with uploading a CSV, I had to go into 110 individual products on Saturday, change the descriptions, add keywords, change the price, add the proper SKU. It took me 9 straight hours and I am STILL not done. I feel your pain. I really do!
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    • Profile picture of the author justray
      Originally Posted by Audarah View Post

      I just wanted to butt in here and say I am proud of you, and I dont even know you. By the way,I did get your email ( TODAY!!) I am so so sorry for that. I didnt realize people could message under here lol. But anyways, I feel your pain, I really do. I have been saying to my husband that I needed help. He knows not the first thing about ecommerce, so he isnt the person to go to AND I havent even launched, so I havent made any money yet. But the adding products, changing descriptions, making sure SKU and Prices are right, adding THOSE to my database I keep in excel, making sure the opt ins are working, the ordering system is working, etc etc etc is just driving me crazy. I havent slept for weeks now and when I do, I am dreaming about uploading CSV or product images or fighting again with a code. ICK! I know eventually, that I will have to hire help as well considering I have three niche stores in mind. I have been working for two solid months and dont even have the first store done yet and haven't even STARTED on the other two. Even with uploading a CSV, I had to go into 110 individual products on Saturday, change the descriptions, add keywords, change the price, add the proper SKU. It took me 9 straight hours and I am STILL not done. I feel your pain. I really do!
      I'm just at the initial stages of ecommerce: my own store. This doesn't look very fun, but I know it must be done. As others have said, it does get easier. It does get easier.
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      • Profile picture of the author OnlineStoreHelp
        Can I make a suggestion for those that are able to do it and might be a little bit outside the box of what you are thinking?

        Mind you, this only works if your suppliers can provide inventory feeds. But if they do, there is a way to automate and streamline the process.

        First, once you know the format of your upload to the shopping cart, save that. What I would then do, is hire an Excel or VBA developer to create a script that can parse everything and populate your upload csv with all pertinent details.

        You now have a fully populated CSV that only needs to be tweaked instead of copy and pasting the whole thing. You would be surprised what can be done with Excel in this regard. After that, you can then set up a a simple script using Vlookups to update inventory, MAP, and Retail pricing that a VA can upload every day.

        Now before you say it can't be done, it can. My fiance automated a budget spreadsheet for a large trust here with 40 different divisions that was 10 times more complicated than this.

        The reason I suggest this is it not only saves you time but saves you money. Having a VA manually populate your stores can be a bit expensive. You should be able to find someone on Odesk to create these scripts for less than 500 dollars.
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  • Profile picture of the author Written
    Hi there,

    While I'm primarily a content writer, I also act as a VA for one of my clients, who actually is launching an e-commerce company right now, so I thought I'd offer you my point-of-view from the other side of the table.

    Originally Posted by Hampton44

    I have a team of 5 I am all giving slices of the project (involving product uploads, image cropping etc) and comparing their work.
    First question: are they specialized? Even if they are all VAs, I have found from experience, as a member of a VA team, that things move along faster if each VA has an area of specialization. On my primary team, I am the writing VA. There's also a programming VA, a transcription VA, a graphics VA, etc. That way, everyone does what they are best at.

    Second question: are they in different time zones? I have found that it can be better for productivity to have people in different time zones. For example, if a project requires cooperation between Worker A and Worker B, you can give a project to faraway Worker A just before going to bed, then check it when you get up in the morning and pass it to Worker B, who is in your timezone, for completion. That way, you can have people building your business basically 24/7.

    Originally Posted by Hampton44

    What do you outsource when it comes to ecommerce? I am going to have someone create my social media graphics ahead of time (about 80), my product uploads, my email newsletter and I may have someone compile my orders.
    It's possible to outsource everything--your goals are going to be different from those of other people on the forum, so I would focus on what you personally feel comfortable outsourcing.

    Originally Posted by Hampton44

    I feel with a few ---they always say a project takes 6-7 hours and I think that is B.S. Reason why I am having several people work on the same project split up---to compare.
    Have you tried each of these projects yourself at least once? If not, it's hard to know how long they "should" take. I recommend trying each task yourself before outsourcing it, like yakim1 said.

    Originally Posted by Silas Hart

    as far as paying for assistance, you really get what you pay for more so than any other investment you can make.
    Absolutely.

    I also want to point out that, if your VAs are specialized, having one who isn't at the level of the others can really gum up the works. For example, my primary team's old transcription VA came at a great price, but they sucked. The transcripts they wrote were full of errors and barely looked like English.

    This slowed me down when it came time for me to process those transcripts into content because I had to basically translate them into English. When my client dropped them and got a new VA who did a better job, I was able to take care of content creation better, since I was now working with decent transcripts.

    A great VA is generally not going to work for less than their local minimum wage. After all, why should they? At that point, they could just work as a secretary locally and make more money.

    Originally Posted by Hampton44

    when you are outsourcing are you using ODesk etc? What is the average pay for Project Manager?
    Most of my main client's team has been built and managed through oDesk. As for the pay for Project Manager, I've seen it vary by a lot.

    Originally Posted by BamaGuy

    I found that when I offered to pay by the hour, I saw people taking longer than they should have.
    This could very well be true. However, to present the other side of the argument, it could be that the people you pay by the hour are more motivated to provide their best-quality work, so they take longer and produce a higher-quality result.


    In short, what I am trying to encourage is looking at your team and operations holistically. That is, consider how each member of the team, including the potential team manager, contributes to your operations as a whole
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  • Profile picture of the author dash0205
    I had the same dilemma. But fortunately enough I have 2 VAs that been working with me for the past 2 years already. We started with per project/rate. But now, I offered them a monthly salary (40 hours work). Been so happy with their efficiency I must say.
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  • Profile picture of the author malia
    I wouldn't deal with part time people. I find that they are so busy trying to make sure they have a consistent income that your work is not a priority and they may pad their hours to meet their income goals.

    I vote for getting full time VA, however, you may burn through a few before you find good competent assistants. Right now I have 4:

    1- customer service general admin
    1- full time graphics
    1- social media
    1- video editor

    I found that it was easier to track them by accountability. With the graphics, you set expectations for what you expect to get done daily, though I have never had a problem with the graphics designer. With social media, they should be able to track their activity in a spreadsheet. Video editor- expected weekly output.

    I know if I have to micromanage, I don't have a good person-- for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author CynthiaAngel
      Originally Posted by malia View Post

      I wouldn't deal with part time people. I find that they are so busy trying to make sure they have a consistent income that your work is not a priority and they may pad their hours to meet their income goals.

      I vote for getting full time VA, however, you may burn through a few before you find good competent assistants. Right now I have 4:

      1- customer service general admin
      1- full time graphics
      1- social media
      1- video editor

      I found that it was easier to track them by accountability. With the graphics, you set expectations for what you expect to get done daily, though I have never had a problem with the graphics designer. With social media, they should be able to track their activity in a spreadsheet. Video editor- expected weekly output.

      I know if I have to micromanage, I don't have a good person-- for me.
      May I ask what site you used in finding your VA's?
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      • Profile picture of the author malia
        Originally Posted by CynthiaAngel View Post

        May I ask what site you used in finding your VA's?
        Onlinejobs.ph

        I have had better results posting the job, putting explicit instructions in the posting (like send an audio file with a recording of your voice) and weeding out those who don't follow instructions.

        The audio file was necessary if you want people to handle telephone support, but after using it multiple times, I find better candidates have better things to say in their audio, so I'm sticking with it as much as possible.
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        • Profile picture of the author CynthiaAngel
          Originally Posted by malia View Post

          Onlinejobs.ph

          I have had better results posting the job, putting explicit instructions in the posting (like send an audio file with a recording of your voice) and weeding out those who don't follow instructions.

          The audio file was necessary if you want people to handle telephone support, but after using it multiple times, I find better candidates have better things to say in their audio, so I'm sticking with it as much as possible.
          I just registered for onlinejobs.ph. It cost $49 to register and post a job.
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  • Profile picture of the author GetExperienced
    Outsourcing can be a pain in the ass (Especially if there is that language barrier).

    I would say just hire a local part-time student or intern for similar prices.

    Who knows, they may do such a good job, that it will bring you more business and then you can offer them a real full time position.
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  • Profile picture of the author davidbernstein
    Have you tried outsourcing to Israel?
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  • Profile picture of the author sauravgd
    Hi there,

    We’re just letting you know that Genie Desk is now open to retail customers, both individuals and small business.

    Genie Desk provides personal assistants and outsourced staffing solutions with a focus on flexibility and quality from $0.15 per minute before tax. In short, we do the things you don’t have time to do whether it’s for you, your family or your business.

    • Try us for free – cancel within 3 days and you have not paid a cent.
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    We’re transparent, reliable and accountable.
    Visit Genie Desk | Your Virtual Personal Assistant – Affordable Outsourcing for Business and Individuals | Your Virtual Assistant or get in touch on support@geniedesk.com
    Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Oggyoi
      Originally Posted by sauravgd View Post

      Hi there,

      We're just letting you know that Genie Desk is now open to retail customers, both individuals and small business.

      Genie Desk provides personal assistants and outsourced staffing solutions with a focus on flexibility and quality from $0.15 per minute before tax. In short, we do the things you don't have time to do whether it's for you, your family or your business.

      • Try us for free - cancel within 3 days and you have not paid a cent.
      .
      $15.95 per hour. dropping down to $10.95 per hour on the 20 hour plan !
      Is that per person or for a team of 3 ?
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  • Profile picture of the author everythinglore
    Hi Hampton44. Though this thread is almost a year older now but I still love to leave few advices for the benefit of future visitors of this thread.

    Working in a company that offers staff leasing service and I'm also handling clients. Based on my experience some clients do have their paid time and tasks management tools like timecamp, basecamp, asana, etc. You can invest on softwares. Or you can require them to submit everyday their reports.

    Yes, agree to Silas Hart. Hire a Project manager to ensure tasks deadlines are meet. As Ryan Kahn said, "Master your strengths. Outsouce your weaknesses."

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  • Profile picture of the author repricerexpress
    If you're managing more than two outsourced workers then I would use a PM for sure as they micro managing (particularly at the start) just eats up so much time. That said, be prepared to put in some work in the beginning to help your workers get up to speed and comfortable with work levels and expectations.
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  • Profile picture of the author techplus
    i sent you a PM
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