Are emails sent to non-opt-in emails always spam?

by ku
13 replies
I have a client for whom I scraped about 2 hundred thousand emails from a particular website.
Now they want to send emails to these people.

Is there a possibility where these mails sent are NOT considered SPAM by the big 3 (yahoo/gmail/hotmail) ?

I thought they will be considered spam, sending so many emails who have not opted in to receive these emails. But my client pointed out to their competitors who regularly send out mails that are not considered spam by gmail...

would sending the mail with a opt-in link and with auto unsubscribe if the user ignores the mail help ?

Assume other factors (Reverse DNS , DKIM SPF record have been set accordingly.
Niche: Higher level college training etc company

Thanks
#emails #nonoptin #spam
  • Profile picture of the author emptee
    Originally Posted by ku View Post

    I have a client for whom I scraped about 2 hundred thousand emails from a particular website.
    Now they want to send emails to these people.

    Is there a possibility where these mails sent are NOT considered SPAM by the big 3 (yahoo/gmail/hotmail) ?

    I thought they will be considered spam, sending so many emails who have not opted in to receive these emails. But my client pointed out to their competitors who regularly send out mails that are not considered spam by gmail...

    would sending the mail with a opt-in link and with auto unsubscribe if the user ignores the mail help ?

    Assume other factors (Reverse DNS , DKIM SPF record have been set accordingly.
    Niche: Higher level college training etc company

    Thanks
    Whether or not it will get flagged will largely depend on the source - it does seem as though the large ARs have A LOT of room to move here (eg. most AWeber/GetResponse mail lands in the inbox). Sending via something like Mandrillapp, sendgrid, SES, etc.. might help you here.

    Now.. as for legality.. that's a slightly different story. The real issue is how you obtain the email addresses (scraping is a no-no for can-spam). If you could get the list without scraping (or at least argue that the method you used to get it was can-spam compliant), then you are legally allowed to send your email as long as it is can-spam compliant.. so....

    1) No deception
    2) Real name/business name
    3) Working unsubscribe mechanism
    4) US postal address

    Cheers,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by emptee View Post

      sendgrid,
      I can't speak for the others, but SendGrid will not touch that list. Generally, you won't find legitimate mailing services that will.

      Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author ku
    Thank you michael . Your answer helps a lot.
    Just one question:
    Which one of these works better (both from SPAM point of view and email effectiveness/conversion ratio)
    a) working unsubscribe option
    b) auto unsubscribe if user ignores mail ?
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    • Profile picture of the author emptee
      Originally Posted by ku View Post

      Thank you michael . Your answer helps a lot.
      Just one question:
      Which one of these works better (both from SPAM point of view and email effectiveness/conversion ratio)
      a) working unsubscribe option
      b) auto unsubscribe if user ignores mail ?
      Hi Ku,

      I should clarify - I don't do this myself, it's not really a model I believe in..

      You need to have a working unsubscribe option to be can-spam compliant. I'm not really sure what you mean by ignoring the email - not opening it? If you go by that you'll quickly throw away 80% or more of a good list you've built properly - no idea what you would lose from a scraped list!

      Cheers,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaolinsteve
    Originally Posted by ku View Post

    I have a client for whom I scraped about 2 hundred thousand emails from a particular website. Now they want to send emails to these people.
    Your clients asked you to scrape 200,000 emails?

    Originally Posted by ku View Post

    Is there a possibility where these mails sent are NOT considered SPAM by the big 3 (yahoo/gmail/hotmail) ?

    I thought they will be considered spam, sending so many emails who have not opted in to receive these emails. But my client pointed out to their competitors who regularly send out mails that are not considered spam by gmail...
    Scraping emails won't get you anywhere. Who knows what your clients competitors have done. Legit businesses would often rely on outsourcing PPC and social media to gain leads. You won't gain anything from scraping other than a lesson of time being wasted learned.

    Originally Posted by ku View Post

    would sending the mail with a opt-in link and with auto unsubscribe if the user ignores the mail help ?
    You don't really have permission to send them an email in the first place I assume the email is going to be somewhat promotional too.


    Originally Posted by ku View Post

    Niche: Higher level college training etc company
    If your client has a fan-page then go through the emails to see whether they have their email connected to a Facebook account. You could try building relationships with these people, or go more in-depth and look at the type of pages they're a fan of and use Facebook PPC to target that kind of audience.

    As it's college level training, Facebook would most likely be an ideal advertising platform to begin with. So... with the emails that you do have, your best bet is to learn more from your target market and not wasting time by spamming people.
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    • Profile picture of the author emptee
      Originally Posted by Shaolinsteve View Post

      Your clients asked you to scrape 200,000 emails?



      Scraping emails won't get you anywhere. Who knows what your clients competitors have done. Legit businesses would often rely on outsourcing PPC and social media to gain leads. You won't gain anything from scraping other than a lesson of time being wasted learned.



      You don't really have permission to send them an email in the first place I assume the email is going to be somewhat promotional too.




      If your client has a fan-page then go through the emails to see whether they have their email connected to a Facebook account. You could try building relationships with these people, or go more in-depth and look at the type of pages they're a fan of and use Facebook PPC to target that kind of audience.

      As it's college level training, Facebook would most likely be an ideal advertising platform to begin with. So... with the emails that you do have, your best bet is to learn more from your target market and not wasting time by spamming people.
      He doesn't actually need permission really.. You should have a closer look into the CAN SPAM act - it's one of the worst, hole-filled pieces of law ever passed.. it's absurd.

      Again, not something I do myself, but it is practical/possible.

      Cheers,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author ku
    You don't really have permission to send them an email in the first place I assume the email is going to be somewhat promotional too.
    Are you completely sure about this ? Reason I ask is because of this
    Each user on your distribution list should opt to receive messages from you in one of the following ways (opt-in):
    • Through an email asking to subscribe to your list.
    So I am not sure what 'distribution list' means here, but as I see it I am allowed to send ONE email asking them to subscribe, if they ignore the mail, they no longer receive any mail. Would this still be considered SPAM ?

    https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#sub

    I am now confused btw
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  • Profile picture of the author ku
    I'm not really sure what you mean by ignoring the email - not opening it? If you go by that you'll quickly throw away 80% or more of a good list you've built properly - no idea what you would lose from a scraped list!
    By 'Ignore Mail' I mean both these :
    1. Not open email
    2. Open email, but don't click any links to subscribe options on site or in email
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  • Profile picture of the author ku
    Thanks a lot for your help Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author fulfilledlife
    It is very depends on a type and place where those scraped emails came from, and only you can answer this question.

    For example. If it is from B2B website where people posted they email openly for any one to contact then sending them email is not a spam.

    Or, if those emails scraped from the contact pages, than those emails are not spam either and it is completely ok to send them email.

    If you however went to some forum and scraped and used emails that are supposed to be private and personal emails, than you breaking the law.
    Signature

    Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value - Albert Einstein

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  • Profile picture of the author ku
    If you however went to some forum and scraped and used emails that are supposed to be private and personal emails, than you breaking the law.
    They are pretty much private.. I think I'll pass this information to my client, but knowing them they are only concerned with emails going into spam, not about law , which is kind of absent in the country we are.

    I know I am repeating but... Is the following considered spam in general by the big three ?
    but as I see it I am allowed to send ONE email asking them to subscribe, if they ignore the mail, they no longer receive any mail. Would this still be considered SPAM ?
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    • Profile picture of the author fulfilledlife
      Originally Posted by ku View Post

      They are pretty much private.. I think I'll pass this information to my client, but knowing them they are only concerned with emails going into spam, not about law , which is kind of absent in the country we are.
      This still presents an issue, because if their emails will be marked as spam, they will be added to all kind of black lists to never be able send emails to inbox again.

      Originally Posted by ku View Post

      I know I am repeating but... Is the following considered spam in general by the big three ?
      I am not an expert but I believe yes it is, now days you need a consent to send an email.
      Signature

      Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value - Albert Einstein

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