20 replies
I hate spam, and don't want to be a spammer. I'm doing blog and social media marketing, and wondering if anyone has had any success with newsletter marketing.

I was saying on another thread that this is the way I'd prefer to go, and I'd prefer to make it more information than ads. Obviously, I"m not looking to get rich off of IM, but I'm just getting started and may move into fake identities and more grey/black hat stuff later.

Right now I'm working with what I have and what I know to get started, so newsletter marketing sounds good to me. I know I'm more likely to buy from someone who isn't pushing me than a spammer, in fact, I unsubscribe from anyone who spams me after giving me a free product. I have read that this is true for 75% of people who give you their email for free products. You never reach them again after that first spam mail.

I'm trying to maintain the authority I've already built through ethical marketing. It seems that I'm being pushed to do the opposite here a lot of the time, which honestly turns me off.

If you can't give me advice without trying to push me into being a spammer, please don't reply.
#marketing #newsletter
  • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
    I responded to your other post.

    So, what exactly do you consider spam?

    From what you are saying, it sounds like you see any message that promotes an offer as being spam.

    Whatever you read is way off on the 75% unsubscribe. I'm sure many will chime in on it. As I posted in the other thread, all I do is send offers and zero content and I get about 8-10% unsubscribes the first 30 days or so and then it completely drops off and a high percentage stick around for years. Not having to send content greatly reduces my work, so I'll take that all day long. Now keep in mind, I'm talking about promoting PPL offers, so content messages really isn't important. But that still debunks the 75%.
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    • Profile picture of the author ZenDude
      Originally Posted by DIABL0 View Post

      I responded to your other post.

      So, what exactly do you consider spam?

      From what you are saying, it sounds like you see any message that promotes an offer as being spam.

      Whatever you read is way off on the 75% unsubscribe. I'm sure many will chime in on it. As I posted in the other thread, all I do is send offers and zero content and I get about 8-10% unsubscribes the first 30 days or so and then it completely drops off and a high percentage stick around for years. Not having to send content greatly reduces my work, so I'll take that all day long. Now keep in mind, I'm talking about promoting PPL offers, so content messages really isn't important. But that still debunks the 75%.
      Spam to me is any unsolicited offer, but especially a recurring unsolicited offer. I'm not an impulse buyer. If I want something, I go looking for it. If I'm interested in something, say software, and I'm subscribed to a newsletter from a software site, I want reviews and information instead of an ad leading to a squeeze page or a never-ending wall of text sales page and especially not to one of those insane infomercial videos. I want someone who says "Hey, here is this software. Here is a thorough review, and how much it costs, and if you're interested in a free trial, click here." then that takes me to a site with more information and a download link. That's how I do business. I want to be that person who sends out that type of newsletter that leads to that type of offer.

      I guess the 75% included people who simply block or delete and never read, plus those who sign up with tossaway emails so they never even see them. The number actually was that 75% of everyone on your email list never sees your offers. So I guess that explains why a 2% conversion is good, if only 25% are seeing your offers.

      My thing is to be laser focused on people who know me, know I'm knowledgeable about this one niche, and are likely to be long-term subscribers to my newsletter. I know with most of you, it's a numbers game, and that's great if that's how you want to play it, but for my first campaign, I want to be ME and sell what I know best and what I recommend to people from experience.

      It seems like that sort of marketing is scoffed at by most of you guys. I want to be ethical. If I can't be ethical, I don't want to play this game, and will just keep writing crap articles to make a living.
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  • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
    So, if you download some info for free and then the owner sends you an offer...that's spam to you?

    Even though you signed up to their list by downloaded the free info. They can not(shouldn't) send you offers unless you request it?

    I'm assuming the answer is yes to both question? I'm just trying to make sure I understand where you are coming from.
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    • Profile picture of the author ZenDude
      Originally Posted by DIABL0 View Post

      So, if you download some info for free and then the owner sends you an offer...that's spam to you?

      Even though you signed up to their list by downloaded the free info. They can not(shouldn't) send you offers unless you request it?

      I'm assuming the answer is yes to both question? I'm just trying to make sure I understand where you are coming from.
      Not necessarily. Like I said, as long as the offer gives information and is not just a product pitch, I'm fine. Say for instance, they are selling protein powder. If they send me an offer that either contains or leads me to more info on the benefits of protein powder and maybe a comparison of their product vs the best selling brand, I'm fine with that. What I'm NOT fine with is pure product pitches that have a "learn more" link that just leads you to a hard sell page. I don't have time to read 7,000 words of sales copy. I WILL read 500-600 word well-written review of article on the true proven benefits of a product, scientific studies, etc. Otherwise, you're wasting my time, and I will never buy from you.

      I'm not the only person who feels this way, or you wouldn't have to track bounce rates.
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      • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
        Originally Posted by ZenDude View Post

        Not necessarily. Like I said, as long as the offer gives information and is not just a product pitch, I'm fine. Say for instance, they are selling protein powder. If they send me an offer that either contains or leads me to more info on the benefits of protein powder and maybe a comparison of their product vs the best selling brand, I'm fine with that. What I'm NOT fine with is pure product pitches that have a "learn more" link that just leads you to a hard sell page. I don't have time to read 7,000 words of sales copy. I WILL read 500-600 word well-written review of article on the true proven benefits of a product, scientific studies, etc. Otherwise, you're wasting my time, and I will never buy from you.

        I'm not the only person who feels this way, or you wouldn't have to track bounce rates.
        Here is the problem that I have with your logic...

        You get sent a message and the landing page is a review then it's not spam, but if the landing page is anything else...sales page, then it's spam.

        Your defining what spam is based on content and that's not how spam is defined.

        So when you say I don't want to be a spammer...most people aren't going to understand what your really saying.

        If you download free info and get on a list and the list owner sends you a message, then regardless of what the content is, they are not spamming you.

        If someone scrapes you email and then sends you a message, then they are spamming you, regardless of what the content is.

        Anyway...why not just do email marketing in the way that you believe it should be done, rather than not at all?

        I've been doing this for 15 years, trust me when I say...If you have a site, you should be collecting emails! Even if all you do is send content to keep your domain in front of them! That's better than nothing.
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        • Profile picture of the author dngordon
          Are we talking about someone signing up for as a blog subscriber or someone signing up to be included on a mailing list? I guess it depends on what you're selling but I would turn my email list subscribers off if I didn't mention sales or products. I would turn my blog following off if I never had well written articles that gives them helpful info...
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          • Profile picture of the author ZenDude
            Originally Posted by dngordon View Post

            Are we talking about someone signing up for as a blog subscriber or someone signing up to be included on a mailing list? I guess it depends on what you're selling but I would turn my email list subscribers off if I didn't mention sales or products. I would turn my blog following off if I never had well written articles that gives them helpful info...
            Two separate things. I allow people to subscribe to the blog without signing up for the newsletter. I can't get their email addresses like that, which is why I put ads on the blog. These people want to be notified of every post, but don't want to give out their email addresses. That's fine. I understand that.

            The newsletter signup is my email list. The newsletter contains information not found on the blog and links to all the new blog posts that week. It will also contain discreet banner ads and product links. My welcome letter will explain that the newsletter is supported by ads, so they will be expecting it. If they don't like the ads, they can unsubscribe and go back to simply subscribing to the blog or keeping up on social media.

            So that's how I want to do it. I realize that most pure internet marketers don't do it this way, but I have since talked to some mommy bloggers who do it EXACTLY this way and are making good money while not alienating any of their supporters.

            And doing it for 15, 20, 25 years does not make your way the only way, or the best way for everyone. Kinda tired of seeing that too.
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        • Profile picture of the author ZenDude
          Originally Posted by DIABL0 View Post

          Here is the problem that I have with your logic...

          You get sent a message and the landing page is a review then it's not spam, but if the landing page is anything else...sales page, then it's spam.

          Your defining what spam is based on content and that's not how spam is defined.

          So when you say I don't want to be a spammer...most people aren't going to understand what your really saying.

          If you download free info and get on a list and the list owner sends you a message, then regardless of what the content is, they are not spamming you.

          If someone scrapes you email and then sends you a message, then they are spamming you, regardless of what the content is.

          Anyway...why not just do email marketing in the way that you believe it should be done, rather than not at all?

          I've been doing this for 15 years, trust me when I say...If you have a site, you should be collecting emails! Even if all you do is send content to keep your domain in front of them! That's better than nothing.
          I have no problem with collecting emails. I have no problem with a weekly or monthly newsletter. I have a problem with a marketer who gives me something for free and thinks it entitles him/her to then send me multiple messages a day that are nothing but hard-sell, threat you may miss out, BS stuff like that. THAT is spam, no matter where it comes from. Solicited or unsolicited, if someone is flooding your inbox with nothing but hard-core sales copy, it's spam, IMHO and in the opinion of milllions of people who block it and in the opinion of Google and most other email providers, so you do what you want, but I'm not going to annoy my readers like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author shermancox
    ok...when someone downloads something from me...I tell them they will receive a daily email...

    In each email I try to entertain while I do a lot of telling "what" to do...and very little telling "how" to do it...you pay for the "how to" you get the "what to" for free...

    I also tire of emails that are just product pitches without telling me about the niche, etc...

    Then at the end of almost all my emails I have a..."here is a link to my product" or something like that...sometimes a little more...sometimes a little less...but I always have a call to action in every email...

    Sometimes my call is to a free youtube video or blog post...but most of the time it is to a product...

    Maybe once every couple months I have a hard sell email..(hey this is about to go off sale...you better get it if you want it)....but the vast majority of time, it is all soft sell...and it is all content..but again not "how-to-do" but "what-to=do"...

    I started on the road of giving away tons of "how-to" content and never asking for money afraid I will piss off the folks...and I ended up with a list of folks who got pissed off every time I asked for money...Then I saw folks in the same niche asking for money and getting a lot more than I was getting...

    I learned, if you aren't gonna ever ask for any money...then you aren't gonna ever get any money...

    I don't spam anybody...but of course like always that is according to whatever your definition of spam is...providing free, valuable content and giving them an option to buy something at the end of that free content...is not spam in my book...
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    • Profile picture of the author ZenDude
      Originally Posted by shermancox View Post

      ok...when someone downloads something from me...I tell them they will receive a daily email...

      In each email I try to entertain while I do a lot of telling "what" to do...and very little telling "how" to do it...you pay for the "how to" you get the "what to" for free...

      I also tire of emails that are just product pitches without telling me about the niche, etc...

      Then at the end of almost all my emails I have a..."here is a link to my product" or something like that...sometimes a little more...sometimes a little less...but I always have a call to action in every email...

      Sometimes my call is to a free youtube video or blog post...but most of the time it is to a product...

      Maybe once every couple months I have a hard sell email..(hey this is about to go off sale...you better get it if you want it)....but the vast majority of time, it is all soft sell...and it is all content..but again not "how-to-do" but "what-to=do"...

      I started on the road of giving away tons of "how-to" content and never asking for money afraid I will piss off the folks...and I ended up with a list of folks who got pissed off every time I asked for money...Then I saw folks in the same niche asking for money and getting a lot more than I was getting...

      I learned, if you aren't gonna ever ask for any money...then you aren't gonna ever get any money...

      I don't spam anybody...but of course like always that is according to whatever your definition of spam is...providing free, valuable content and giving them an option to buy something at the end of that free content...is not spam in my book...
      That approach is fine. I don't mind that, and I don't mind being occasionally told about sales, especially if I have thought seriously enough about purchasing to not cancel the emails after the first few. I'm all for saving money.

      I'm not afraid of asking people to buy things. People who read my blogs already know I sell Amazon and eBay products, so asking them to buy isn't a problem. I put a small link in the middle of every blog post that mentions a product and a larger link or banner at the bottom.

      In fact, I'm seriously thinking of doing a products page instead of having widgets as the widgets don't seem to get any sales at all. I think a banner with "Check Out My Recommended Products" would be more effective.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by ZenDude View Post

        That approach is fine. I don't mind that, and I don't mind being occasionally told about sales, especially if I have thought seriously enough about purchasing to not cancel the emails after the first few. I'm all for saving money.

        I'm not afraid of asking people to buy things. People who read my blogs already know I sell Amazon and eBay products, so asking them to buy isn't a problem. I put a small link in the middle of every blog post that mentions a product and a larger link or banner at the bottom.

        In fact, I'm seriously thinking of doing a products page instead of having widgets as the widgets don't seem to get any sales at all. I think a banner with "Check Out My Recommended Products" would be more effective.
        I respect what you are saying. And I too do not like the hard pitch after hard pitch in emails after emails from some people.

        But in all honestly you are sending mixed signals, at least a little bit.

        You say you do not like to be giving a link to a product at the beginning of this Thread and now you are saying you have NO problem yourself to put a link down and ask people to buy things from you.

        Am I missing something ?


        - Robert Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author oskaroskar
    So here is a guy who do not want to become a spammer.
    Respect.
    If you want to be loved by your subscribers and don’t want to be considered a spammer – don’t sell them anything in your emails.
    Just send them value in their inboxes and they will find a way to make you rich.
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    • Profile picture of the author ZenDude
      Originally Posted by oskaroskar View Post

      So here is a guy who do not want to become a spammer.
      Respect.
      If you want to be loved by your subscribers and don't want to be considered a spammer - don't sell them anything in your emails.
      Just send them value in their inboxes and they will find a way to make you rich.
      That's my theory too. I can redirect them to the blog, where they will get the rest of the info and see the product links, but there is no hard sell. Just "This is what worked for me, and this is where you can buy this product."

      Maybe I'm crazy, but I think that people are more likely to buy from someone they feel cares about whatever issue it is they are facing, whether it be cosmetic, medical or emotional. Say I'm selling a hair care product. I might tell them how to make a comparable product themselves, knowing not everyone is going to want to do that, so I include a link to the product sale page.

      I actually sold a bunch of eyedrops that way once, which shocked me. It turns out that people are not comfortable making their own eyedrops (who can blame them, it's your eyes, after all), so they would rather buy the product from a manufacturer. Still, a few used my instructions and posted how well they worked and how grateful they were so that built trust. "Oh look! Some people made these things and their eyes didn't fall out!" LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author shermancox
    Zendude,

    Ok...I think I see where you are coming from now...I gotta admit...I hate that stuff (hard sells and threatening me with missing out on something I don't really want) and I do unsubscribe...

    I also hate when folks just copy somebody's affiliate emails on some product and just hammer me with it...

    Maybe it works..I don't know cause I ain't gonna do it...I don't call it spam cause I asked for it...but I do unsubscribe from that stuff with a quickness and move on...

    After having said that...I misunderstood you...originally, I thought you were doing what I did at the very start of my sojourn where I gave away the farm and got my people used to getting everything for free...

    so when I asked for them to buy a little milk...they got angry and asked me where the rest of the free stuff was...

    But I see now that ain't exactly what you are talking bout doing....
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Al
    About the newsletter you're thinking about...

    Have a look at Marlon Sanders list. I can't remember how frequently he emails but I know he does ping out a weekly PDF newsletter that obviously slides into promoting his products - but that's worth having a butchers at.

    I doubt he'd do it if it wasn't adding value (or money) to his business.
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    • Profile picture of the author ZenDude
      Originally Posted by discrat View Post

      I respect what you are saying. And I too do not like the hard pitch after hard pitch in emails after emails from some people.

      But in all honestly you are sending mixed signals, at least a little bit.

      You say you do not like to be giving a link to a product at the beginning of this Thread and now you are saying you have NO problem yourself to put a link down and ask people to buy things from you.

      Am I missing something ?
      - Robert Andrew
      I don't understand what you're trying to say. I don't have any problem with selling products through links, never have. Just don't want to flood people with offers.

      Originally Posted by shermancox View Post

      Zendude,

      Ok...I think I see where you are coming from now...I gotta admit...I hate that stuff (hard sells and threatening me with missing out on something I don't really want) and I do unsubscribe...

      I also hate when folks just copy somebody's affiliate emails on some product and just hammer me with it...

      Maybe it works..I don't know cause I ain't gonna do it...I don't call it spam cause I asked for it...but I do unsubscribe from that stuff with a quickness and move on...

      After having said that...I misunderstood you...originally, I thought you were doing what I did at the very start of my sojourn where I gave away the farm and got my people used to getting everything for free...

      so when I asked for them to buy a little milk...they got angry and asked me where the rest of the free stuff was...

      But I see now that ain't exactly what you are talking bout doing....
      I've been thinking about it and this is something like what I'm thinking about doing. Say I'm selling flower bulbs. I write a short piece about how to grow those bulbs, with a "learn more about growing xyz bulbs" link to the full article, which has a link in the middle and at the end, one selling the bulbs and one selling something associated, like bulb fertilizer or something. That way, they get excited about growing the bulbs because they know how to do it now, right? Before the middle link, I'll put something like "I recommend this <dealer> because blah, blah, blah (reasonably priced, has a guarantee but never had to use it because his bulbs are such great quality and grow so well). Then at the end, I say "I also found that if I use this fertilizer, the bulbs bloom better, blah, blah, blah."

      So I'm selling two products in one short article.

      Once I get enough articles, I put out an ebook on how to grow bulbs, and offer it for free for an email subscription to the newsletter for awhile, then sell it.

      Does that make sense? It's not hard selling or flooding inboxes, but it gives me a chance to promote multiple products.

      Originally Posted by Big Al View Post

      About the newsletter you're thinking about...

      Have a look at Marlon Sanders list. I can't remember how frequently he emails but I know he does ping out a weekly PDF newsletter that obviously slides into promoting his products - but that's worth having a butchers at.

      I doubt he'd do it if it wasn't adding value (or money) to his business.
      Thanks, I'll do that.
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  • Profile picture of the author eugenedm
    Email marketing is not spam. Email marketing could be a great relationship between you and a customer where everyone benefits.

    You can send out a lot of Great information to your users and then once in a while you can sell something

    Gene Adam
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    WARNING: A 50 Million Dollar Man Taught Me His Secret... Which Resulted 6,000 Sign-ups on My Email List.

    "It's easier than you think..."

    => Watch this video here...
    Build Your List to 6,000 Subscribers

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    • Profile picture of the author ZenDude
      Originally Posted by eugenedm View Post

      Email marketing is not spam. Email marketing could be a great relationship between you and a customer where everyone benefits.

      You can send out a lot of Great information to your users and then once in a while you can sell something

      Gene Adam
      EXACTLY what I've been trying to say!
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  • Profile picture of the author Platt
    It's nice to hear you are really thinking about your target group when thinking about e-mail marketing. You cannot be too frequent but still you have to communicate with the ones who signed up for the newsletter. It's true that a lot of people unsubscribe when they get annoyed. There are some checkpoints to doing good e-mail marketing:
    - make personal content
    - when they register for the news letter, give them an idea of what to expect
    - keep it straight and simple
    - an incentive is not that bad if it's considered from the point of view from the target group
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    • Profile picture of the author ZenDude
      Originally Posted by Platt View Post

      It's nice to hear you are really thinking about your target group when thinking about e-mail marketing. You cannot be too frequent but still you have to communicate with the ones who signed up for the newsletter. It's true that a lot of people unsubscribe when they get annoyed. There are some checkpoints to doing good e-mail marketing:
      - make personal content
      - when they register for the news letter, give them an idea of what to expect
      - keep it straight and simple
      - an incentive is not that bad if it's considered from the point of view from the target group
      I am thinking about them, because without them, what am I? Just someone who has a blog somewhere with some ads on it and page on FB and some pictures on Pinterest.

      As far as letting them know what to expect, I was thinking of a welcome letter which explains what the newsletter is, what it will contain, that the newsletter is supported by ads, and if they ever think there are too many ads or the ads are obnoxious, to please let me know. That way, I'm telling them up front "Hey, I'm going to try to sell you things, but you don't have to buy them, and if it bothers you, I'm listening."

      I feel like accessibility is terribly important. Of course, there will be a time when I can't possibly answer all the emails and messages myself, but I'll try to answer the questions maybe in a Q&A newsletter once in awhile, so they'll know they are heard. People just want to be acknowledged.

      I plan to do giveaways on a pretty regular basis to introduce people to products who would otherwise maybe never buy them. If they still never buy them, so be it, but by introducing the entrants to the product, I'm bound to make some sales sometime.

      I believe I'll have to work harder doing it this way. I'll have to take 3 years to get to where I want to go instead of the 3 months many promise you, but it's o.k.
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