Hotmail Instant-Spam

9 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnVV

by default, new senders are going to Spam.

That's an interesting development. I wonder why they've set up that kind of default?

On the plus side, you can get a number of people with those accounts to do so... and therefore that seems your next step.

Thanks

Signature

http://howtolivebiggerdreams.com/ Risk! Apply expertise, serve people's needs. Get video skills...

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10993571].message }}

RichBeck

9 years ago

I've been in the email marketing game since 1995...

What I see is your domain is "aged" (3 years old) but no reputation (you haven't sent any emails)... While I don't know exactly what algorithm Hotmail is using to filter out spam, my WAG is that it is a reputation issue with Hotmail specifically.

Another thing, I've had an awesome inboxing rate with Mandrill and SendGrid in the past. You may want to try using them or even Amazon SES.

Finally, I'd run your email text through a spam checker. It could be words or groups of words are landing your emails in the spam folder.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10993717].message }}

fago

9 years ago

You said the key to everything ... You have no reputation

You need to give reputation to your IPs and your domain

Please view the following tutorial: http://www.emailvendorselection.com/...ith-a-new-esp/

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10993723].message }}

sendizo

9 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnVV

I'm encountering problems specially with Hotmail, I'm testing it with an old domain (3 years old) which never has been used to send emails, and an IP which never sent emails either..

no sending history=neutral reputation this does not necessarily means inbox.

Originally Posted by JohnVV

I've checked my outgoing configuration with some tools, I've the best reputation possible sending emails (spf, dkim, etc...)

Good configuration. keep in mind lot of services should be on Mail Server along with DNS authentication. to have good infrastructure.

Originally Posted by JohnVV

I tried to send one email to my hotmail.com account, and it went directly to Spam.

You can reach out of Outlook Postmaster.Sign up to snds hotmail. Build a reputation for your IPs/Domain on hotmail.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10993734].message }}

JohnVV

9 years ago

Originally Posted by fago

You said the key to everything ... You have no reputation

You need to give reputation to your IPs and your domain

Please view the following tutorial: Warming Up Your Dedicated IP Address with a new ESP

Thank you for this tutorial, is really interesting.

Originally Posted by sendizo

no sending history=neutral reputation this does not necessarily means inbox.

Good configuration. keep in mind lot of services should be on Mail Server along with DNS authentication. to have good infrastructure.

You can reach out of Outlook Postmaster.Sign up to snds hotmail. Build a reputation for your IPs/Domain on hotmail.

I already signed up to microsoft postmaster's service, it's really useful but... is hard to get a good reputation starting in the spam folder.

I think that I'm not wrong suposing that your users have to move you out from Spam folder in order to become a reputable sender.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10993866].message }}

fago

9 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnVV

Thank you for this tutorial, is really interesting.

I already signed up to microsoft postmaster's service, it's really useful but... is hard to get a good reputation starting in the spam folder.

I think that I'm not wrong suposing that your users have to move you out from Spam folder in order to become a reputable sender.

I would have to see the size of your list, the last emails that you have send ... Open rate and quality of IPv before other filters

I Then tell you, in what time you can put yourself in the inbox

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10993945].message }}

JohnVV

9 years ago

Originally Posted by fago

I would have to see the size of your list, the last emails that you have send ... Open rate and quality of IPv before other filters

I Then tell you, in what time you can put yourself in the inbox

Hello Fago, thanks for your help, I just configured 4 IP addresses for rotation and I'm going to send 60 emails / hour for each one.

The email is HTML, 40% image 60% text +-, I changed text and colors and disabled images because of confidentiality issues:

The IP's are not blacklisted, the domain is 3 years old, the list is around 150.000 users.

All these users asked for more information about the products of this company the last 3 years, coming from lead generation with SEM/Display.

The open rate is too low, between 1-5%, I'm going 100% to spam for sure.

I tested sending this newsletter with mail-tester.com and I get a perfect 10/10.

I have some questions:

- Which kind of email should I send focusing in going out of Spam?
- Which is an acceptable bounce rate to put my IPs in the INBOX?
- And trap hits? there is an acceptable number? or if I have 1 is enough to stay in the spam folder?
- Should I use Precedence: Bulk?

Thank you guys.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10994401].message }}

sendizo

9 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnVV

I think that I'm not wrong suposing that your users have to move you out from Spam folder in order to become a reputable sender.

I completely understand. IP warm up can be critical at start. you need to start with most active subscribers and add more slowly once you build a reputation it will be much easier.

Check this proven IP warm up guide. we use it one our senders. https://sendizo.com/download/SendizoIPwarmupNew.pdf

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10996287].message }}

JohnVV

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sendizo

I completely understand. IP warm up can be critical at start. you need to start with most active subscribers and add more slowly once you build a reputation it will be much easier.

Check this proven IP warm up guide. we use it one our senders. https://sendizo.com/download/SendizoIPwarmupNew.pdf

Really useful sendizo, after I clean my list I'm gonna follow your steps with a new domain/IP for sure.

Last night, after 3 days sending, I was blocked by yahoo because of complaints, they told me to stop sending for 4 hours. I stopped it all night and this morning the block disappeared.

I never thought cleaning up a list of 3 years old would be so complicated! But I will get it!

I would like to share with you the results of the first 4 days (hotmail):

All your comments are welcome

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10996606].message }}

rritz

9 years ago

Hotmail does not send to spam folder by default. I know, because I am just warming up a new server with 10 IPs and I get good opens and good inboxing from hotmail althoguh I have no reputation at all

If you get 10 / 10 in mail-tester then there must be some other issue.

I'd try to check your IP reputation in sernderscore.org
If your IP reputation is low, you will get a bit of information from senderscore.
Also check for blacklistings and look at your bounce reports to find the issue

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10994558].message }}

JohnVV

9 years ago

Originally Posted by rritz

Hotmail does not send to spam folder by default. I know, because I am just warming up a new server with 10 IPs and I get good opens and good inboxing from hotmail althoguh I have no reputation at all

If you get 10 / 10 in mail-tester then there must be some other issue.

I'd try to check your IP reputation in sernderscore.org
If your IP reputation is low, you will get a bit of information from senderscore.
Also check for blacklistings and look at your bounce reports to find the issue

Thanks rritz, the thing is... the 1st email that I've sent to hotmail went directly to Spam. I can't check senderscore because there is not enough data from this IP.

So, the only thing is... the content of the email? Shouldn't I send html emails from a new IP or??

Any council is welcome.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10994604].message }}

fago

9 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnVV

Thanks rritz, the thing is... the 1st email that I've sent to hotmail went directly to Spam. I can't check senderscore because there is not enough data from this IP.

So, the only thing is... the content of the email? Shouldn't I send html emails from a new IP or??

Any council is welcome.

Hello John, answering your question, But open another window

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10994648].message }}

fago

9 years ago

1- Any mail that passes the evaluation of mail-tester 10/10

2- 3% maximum

3- a spamtrap in 100,000 emails is acceptable

4- NO (do not use precedence: bulk)

Other factors that affect your arrival:

Reputation of the IP bank

Reputation of ISP / ESP

Domain Reputation

1000 mails per IP is not considered to formalize a reputation ... The minimum per day is 10,000

Backlinks is very good for the domain

Open rate

Response rate above 30% / 100% (reading/open rate)

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10994667].message }}

JohnVV

9 years ago

Originally Posted by fago

1- Any mail that passes the evaluation of mail-tester 10/10

2- 3% maximum

3- a spamtrap in 100,000 emails is acceptable

4- NO (do not use precedence: bulk)

Other factors that affect your arrival:

Reputation of the IP bank

Reputation of ISP / ESP

Domain Reputation

1000 mails per IP is not considered to formalize a reputation ... The minimum per day is 10,000

Backlinks is very good for the domain

Open rate

Response rate above 30% / 100% (reading/open rate)

Thank you a lot!

So, should I start sending 10,000/day for each IP then? I thought it should be more progressive. Someone told me to start sending 100/hour maximum increasing it every day.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10994685].message }}

DIABL0

9 years ago

Hotmail/outlook sucks!

Up till the end of 2009 hotmail was really easy to inbox. Then they became big fat douche bags.

You can learn a lot from your headers.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...xchg.150).aspx

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...xchg.160).aspx

I have had some good luck with constantcontact.com getting sender IPs that would inbox, but many ESPs go to spam.

You have to build up your reputation.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

How to Build LARGE EMAIL LISTS on a Budget and MONETIZE Like a PRO
Free Proven Blueprint: http://emailmonetize.com/blueprint/

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10995289].message }}

JohnVV

9 years ago

Originally Posted by DIABL0

Hotmail/outlook sucks!

Up till the end of 2009 hotmail was really easy to inbox. Then they became big fat douche bags.

You can learn a lot from your headers.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...xchg.150).aspx

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...xchg.160).aspx

I have had some good luck with constantcontact.com getting sender IPs that would inbox, but many ESPs go to spam.

You have to build up your reputation.

Oh this information is great! I'm going to study it and share my conclusions with you.

Hope this thread can be useful for everybody who wants to improve.

EDIT:

After check it and make some tests... nothing changes haha

Basically there are 3 parameters saying your email Spam value and Phishing Value:

SFV:SPM (Spam because of the content)
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SCL: 5 (spam: 1 and 2 = neutral | 5, 6 = suspicious to be spam | 7,8,9 = spam 100%)
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-PCL: 2 (phising: 1-3 neutral | >3 phising).

I tested to send my newsletter and I get these values (SFV:SPM, 5 and 2), I tested to send a plain email, without HTML, something like "Hey john, how are you? I'm fine blah blah ...."

But I get exactly the same result

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10995310].message }}

DIABL0

9 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnVV

Oh this information is great! I'm going to study it and share my conclusions with you.

Hope this thread can be useful for everybody who wants to improve.

EDIT:

After check it and make some tests... nothing changes haha

Basically there are 3 parameters saying your email Spam value and Phishing Value:

SFV:SPM (Spam because of the content)
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SCL: 5 (spam: 1 and 2 = neutral | 5, 6 = suspicious to be spam | 7,8,9 = spam 100%)
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-PCL: 2 (phising: 1-3 neutral | >3 phising).

I tested to send my newsletter and I get these values (SFV:SPM, 5 and 2), I tested to send a plain email, without HTML, something like "Hey john, how are you? I'm fine blah blah ...."

But I get exactly the same result

How are you mailing...ESP or your own IPs?

Hotmail/outlook and parent domains often makeup a small percentage of a list.

Do you know the domain makeup of your list?

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

How to Build LARGE EMAIL LISTS on a Budget and MONETIZE Like a PRO
Free Proven Blueprint: http://emailmonetize.com/blueprint/

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10996143].message }}

JohnVV

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Connann

Dont go with Hotmail. Use gmail instead.

If you send to an hotmail account, you likely go to spam cause hotmails often marks marketing mails as spam.

The problem is that I have like 100k hotmails and 40k gmails....

Originally Posted by DIABL0

How are you mailing...ESP or your own IPs?

Hotmail/outlook and parent domains often makeup a small percentage of a list.

Do you know the domain makeup of your list?

I'm using my own platform, hotmails/outlooks are around 65-70% of my list...

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10996617].message }}

JohnVianny

9 years ago

Dont go with Hotmail. Use gmail instead.

If you send to an hotmail account, you likely go to spam cause hotmails often marks marketing mails as spam.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Learn my Simple 3-Step Formula Earns me over $146.72 in 12 Hours using Emails: Click HERE!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10996091].message }}

rritz

9 years ago

Maybe the high number of bounces had some influence. I usually stop sending at once if I hit 10% bounce rate.
Maybe it would be a good idea to get the list cleaned by a list hygiene service, to reduce bounces and avoid further spam trap hits.

The contents of the emails could also be a part of the problem.

I can also add a bit of info there. I was sending very spammy emails in the make money online niche from my new server. I got the most opens from yahoo, nearly all emails going to hotmail were blocked.

I then switched over to a campaign in the sweepstakes niche. Not spammy at all, all rather good in mail-tester ( I scored a bare 5.6 with my make money emails, scored 7 to 8 in my sweepstakes campaign)
Guess what? I now inbox hotmail without a hitch, whereas every single email in this campaign went to yahoo spam.

Ok, so if you have a hotmail seed account you could try to play around with your subject lines and contents to try and find a version that gets into hotmail inbox.

I am no expert at inboxing, this is just what I am trying to do now with my own campaign to inbox yahoo

Maybe some guys on here have some more helpful ideas

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10996661].message }}

Hotmail Instant-Spam

Trending Topics

Kicked the diet coke addiction ...

Hello there

Back after 20 years -- anyone still here from the early days?

Veteran bloggers, do you notice a decline in visitor comments?

Parallels between sales and marketing