List building case study......bizarre results!

by rossle
16 replies
I hear all the time on this forum that building a relationship with your list is the best way to convert that list into buyers.

I'd like to share some info with you.

I have a small list in the health niche I have not emailed for over 300 days. Stone cold list. Out of curiosity, I emailed it some offers, and made over $1 per sub. Nice.

So next, I decided to build a new list in the same niche, using the same traffic source as the cold list, giving away free ebooks, useful content etc, and gently sending the odd offer.

The results......zero sales.

I had a conversation with a well respected warrior last week who said all this relationship building stuff is crap and instead you should just blast out offers every day.

Based on my results, Im unsure in which direction to take.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

Best, Ross
#building #case #list #results #studybizarre
  • Profile picture of the author NatesMarketing
    I believe there are several different reasons to have a list.

    Some lists you'll want to nurture - they're more about building that lasting relationship. So, you probably don't want to send them product offers daily.

    Other lists, probably like your fitness list...you can hit people every day with products...just do it in an engaging way...and when they're done with you...they can just unsubscribe...because you have more right behind them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9514024].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JensSteyaert
    The simple truth of the matter is: both methods work.

    It just depends on mastering a method and not write it off if you do'nt see results immediately.

    I don't however believe in waiting to send out offers for some time. I've seen people recommending here to send out offers only after 10 days. How will you make money that way i wonder?

    Anyways i find what works best is a combination of the two, promoting offers regularly but not doing it an obvious way. (= offer value at the same time).

    But as i said, people are succesful with both methods...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9514111].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JensSteyaert View Post

      The simple truth of the matter is: both methods work.
      It depends (mostly) on your traffic demographics.

      Only one of them works, for me, but it works so well that I have little interest in the other, anyway.

      I like subscribers who "don't like other marketers" and "don't like lots of email", because I find they're brilliant customers who will order products again and again and again, when they trust someone, and they're not very price-resistant at all. Email marketing doesn't get much better than that, really ... and fortunately for me, they're the demographic that my primary traffic-generation method attracts in preference to anyone else.

      .
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9514382].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JensSteyaert
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        It depends (mostly) on your traffic demographics.

        Only one of them works, for me, but it works so well that I have little interest in the other, anyway.

        I like subscribers who "don't like other marketers" and "don't like lots of email", because I find they're brilliant customers who will order products again and again and again, when they trust someone, and they're not very price-resistant at all. Email marketing doesn't get much better than that, really ... and fortunately for me, they're the demographic that my primary traffic-generation method attracts in preference to anyone else.

        .
        Yes i understand what you are saying, but i think you see this a little too black and white.

        We all know that you need to build a buyers list at one point in your marketing carreer or it won't last, that's getting old now.

        The maiin question that needs to be answered is how do you turn freebie seekers into buyers. Everybody has freebie seekers on their list, there's no way around that. If you disregard this fact and don't put them to good use, you're leaving a lot of money on the table.

        Some marketers have an easy solution, and that is to blast one offer after another. That's not my taste either (but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for some people). What i try to do is to use that freebie seeker list to drive more traffic into my funnel and turn them into buyers.

        That's why your initial funnel is so important. The better your funnel is, the more buyers you get on your list and the faster you'll make some good money.

        And yes it's a numbers game, but not the way most people think. The number that matters is how many freebie seekers you can turn into buyers, that's the only number i care about...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9515960].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by JensSteyaert View Post

          We all know that you need to build a buyers list at one point in your marketing carreer or it won't last
          I understand what you are saying, but I think you see this a little too much in black and white.

          (Many full-time affiliate marketers, even some of them who are earning far more than most vendors, don't actually have the facility to build a buyers' list, per se.)

          Originally Posted by JensSteyaert View Post

          The maiin question that needs to be answered is how do you turn freebie seekers into buyers. Everybody has freebie seekers on their list, there's no way around that.
          Well, everyone who's giving a freebie to build the list, yes. I agree that some of them are freebie seekers, but when you're building the list (and sometimes long afterwards, too) you don't know which ones they are. Some people who opt in for a free report are not freebie-seekers at all: they're ready and willing buyers as well. Giving them a freebie doesn't make them freebie-seekers, if that's not who they are.

          But I agree entirely that you need to try to turn them (even without necessarily identifying them) into buyers, of course.

          Originally Posted by JensSteyaert View Post

          Some marketers have an easy solution, and that is to blast one offer after another. That's not my taste either (but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for some people).
          Granted ... but what those marketers often don't appreciate, and never learn (because they do make some money that way) is whether they'd make far more, in the long run, from the same list, by handling them differently.

          They just copy something that they've been told "works" and don't ever try to improve it.

          Originally Posted by JensSteyaert View Post

          What i try to do is to use that freebie seeker list to drive more traffic into my funnel and turn them into buyers.
          Yes, of course: I agree with virtually everything you say (as ever).

          .
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9516548].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LoveTheInternet
    I noticed that it helps to send out content once everyday so that people reading your reports don't forget about that they subscribed to your list.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9514399].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Steeleton
    I agree that sending your list something everyday is a great way to stay on top of mind. That doesn't mean that you have to send an offer everyday...but some people do. And some lists will respond to that.

    Other lists want fewer emails, but I can tell you this for sure...if you don't send any emails or offers you definitely won't make any money
    Signature
    FREE Report: How to stuff over $10,000 a month directly into your bank account...and discover the HUGE secret the internet "Gurus" don't want you to know. ===>>> FREE Internet Secret Report
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9514426].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author rossle
      Originally Posted by Steeleton View Post

      I agree that sending your list something everyday is a great way to stay on top of mind. That doesn't mean that you have to send an offer everyday...but some people do. And some lists will respond to that.

      Other lists want fewer emails, but I can tell you this for sure...if you don't send any emails or offers you definitely won't make any money
      I appreciate what you are saying. It makes total sense. What does not make sense is that I bombarded a stone cold list (that I had not emailed for almost a year) with offers and made really good money!

      I seriously doubt any of those subs remembered or knew who I was.

      Hence why Im a little confused with email marketing right now.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9514509].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ewikk055
        Email marketing is a total numbers game. Unless you have a well branded name you're 'relationship' really doesn't matter...I mean ...really ...what are you thinking about when you're opening emails?
        Signature

        Can we sell these? hollar.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9514524].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jfalxr
    People believe the best time to promote offers to their list is right after they subscribed to you.. I think it is, and it can less around 2-5 days or a week after.. Since they can be considers as a fresh list..

    It doesn't mean you can't get profits from your old list. For me, relationship building is just one thing to maintain your list. Other factors such as how you brand yourself to them, promoting a very related offers, etc..
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9515104].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by jfalxr View Post

      People believe the best time to promote offers to their list is right after they subscribed to you.. I think it is, and it can less around 2-5 days or a week after.. Since they can be considers as a fresh list..
      There is no question in some niches like the IM Niche the first 7 to 10 days is the most likely time Subscribers will buy.

      As far as Blasting ? I think using this method is just not prudent, at least in my situation.

      There are too many other Marketers that do it and to be honest if you have skill in building relationships with others through your correspondence there is no need to resort to that.

      Yes, blasting does work.

      But like I said if you have developed your Copying skills ( particularly email copy) over time and know how to talk with your Subscribers then you will have less and less OPTIMAL results by just lingering with the status quo through 'email blasting'


      But for those of you who do not want to grow then by all mean go ahead and do your blasting


      - Robert Andrew
      Signature

      Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9516582].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    Originally Posted by rossle View Post

    I had a conversation with a well respected warrior last week who said all this relationship building stuff is crap and instead you should just blast out offers every day.
    LOL. Who respects him? His mother?

    Beware of these people, Rossle. There are many self-proclaimed gurus around here. Really, there are people who write on their websites how great their are - they don't even ask others to sing their praises!

    As for whether it works or not... as Alexa pointed out: different strokes for different folks.

    Some groups of people respond well to receiving offers day in day out, but they are the kind of people who look for deals and bonuses, the ones that saving even $1 is a big deal. They are not good clients in the long-term because a) they're easily influenced to buy from other people who send better offers; b) they probably won't stay long enough to buy your subsequent products, which is where most money is made.

    Anyway, to say that relationship building is crap means they have no real understanding of marketing. They all think they do, but they don't. If they did, they would at least acknowledge that relationship building can work incredibly well for some people, and not so much for others. But they call it "crap", which is what they should be called, IMNSHO.

    Originally Posted by rossle View Post

    Based on my results, Im unsure in which direction to take.
    I know the feeling. Most of us have been there.

    However, for someone to give you a good answer, we would need to see the emails. I know it sounds easy to build a relationship with your readers, but it's not. It's much easier to send offers and see your subscribers as email addresses, than seeing them as humans, trying to connect with them and build a relationship.

    Also, you say it was a "stone cold" email list you emailed after 300 days. Relationships aren't build that way. You need to talk to them immediately and then the next day or so, and continue doing it. If you email them after 300 days, no wonder relationship emails don't work. Most people won't remember you. I could go on and on why this doesn't work, and what does, but I feel like people aren't interested.

    You also mention you made $1 per subscriber. How do you know that figure is accurate? Maybe you have a list of 500 people, and 10 people bought a $50 product. In theory, that works out at $1 per sub, but it's not statistically significant. You need a much larger sample size to say accurately that this is true. Plus, this figures are calculated per month, not per list. Maybe next time you email them you only make $0.30 per subscriber. All of a sudden, it's not that impressive, is it?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9515419].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by rossle View Post

    I had a conversation with a well respected warrior last week who said all this relationship building stuff is crap and instead you should just blast out offers every day.
    I've heard people talking like this, too.

    I'm far from convinced that they're "respected" by anyone who's actually making a living online (by doing anything other than selling IM-related products/services to beginning marketers who aren't making a living at all).

    Pretty reliable and consistent observation and experience, over many years, have lead me not to bother having any respect for people who use the word "blast", in this kind of context. Typically, they tend not to know what they're talking about at all, in my opinion, and they're usually teaching baseless techniques that contribute to this activity's high overall fail-rates: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post8661178

    I've seen all these people who send daily/twice-daily email come and go, over the years, from this forum. And I've seen the people teaching them to do it, as well, and heard all the complaints about the "coaching services" they're promoting here (typically by spamming them through the forum's PM system, because that's their mentality - it's all about "blasting" and making it a "numbers game". They might earn something from it - though nothing like what you'd imagine - but their students generally don't, because it's a very low-probability technique.

    .
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9515724].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    If you condition your subscribers to only expect free stuff from you, there's little chance that the majority of them are going to want to actually buy anything from you. That's really the simplicity of it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9516692].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

      If you condition your subscribers to only expect free stuff from you, there's little chance that the majority of them are going to want to actually buy anything from you. That's really the simplicity of it.
      I'll take that a step further. After conditioning people to expect only freebies, a portion of them will actually feel betrayed when you turn around and ask them to buy something. Some will cry spam or scam, others simply chalk you up as "one of them."
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9517175].message }}

Trending Topics