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Video AutoClick concerns

by RussGu3
9 replies
This seems like a very innovative software, but I have some concerns

Mainly regarding Facebook’s TOS.

I really can’t imagine they will look favorably upon content that automatically redirects people from their site.

And I believe that autoloading cookies (without someone actually clicking something) is also against pretty much all affiliate networks’ TOS and probably a blatant FTC violation.

I like that it adds folks to a retargeting campaign but again, in the absence of an actual "action" on the part of the visitor, is even THAT ethical/legal?

I know that most people trust that super-fancy software is fully compliant with TOS across the board, but it's really "buyer beware". Good luck telling a major social site that you didn't know the software you were using was violating their TOS and getting your account back. Or worse, not getting sued.

And man, if it doesn't say that it is fully compliant (and will continue to be) in big block letters on the salesletter, I treat it like undeclared MSG in Chinese food! Complete crap shoot.

Unless you read 100 pages of TOS to ensure it is compliant, that is. Not likely.

The vendor is a standup guy who makes good stuff and does quality reviews for other folks' stuff. But this one concerns me.

Though one could use it without all the fancy (questionable) automated stuff, I guess...

Anyone else raise a red flag over this one? Well-versed on Facebook's TOS? The FTC's rules on cookies and retargeting?

Thanks,

Russ
#autoclick #concerns #video
  • Profile picture of the author peterj
    Why not send him a pm and get him to address your concerns in this thread!?
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  • Profile picture of the author brutecky
    Originally Posted by RussGu3 View Post

    And man, if it doesn't say that it is fully compliant (and will continue to be) in big block letters on the salesletter, I treat it like undeclared MSG in Chinese food! Complete crap shoot..
    Originally Posted by RussGu3 View Post

    The vendor is a standup guy who makes good stuff and does quality reviews for other folks' stuff. But this one concerns me.
    1) It does say on the sales page (in big letters) that this is white hat. Just a FYI white hat = compliant with TOS

    2) If Im such a stand up guy, why are you here speaking in public implying that I might make software that is against TOS and then lie about it? Your kind of contridicting yourself there. Oh Brett is such a great, stand up guy, but Im concerned he might be lying to us. Please go over to Google and look up the definition of the word "oxymoron"

    3) Finally having questions about something is a GOOD thing, and you for sure question things that you dont understand. However what is a very irresponsible thing is posting comments in public as if you know what your talking about when you obviously dont.

    Let me ask you: How many Facebook apps have you developed?
    How many affiliate network products have you sold?

    I have written over 200 Facebook apps. I know very well what you are and are not allowed to do with apps, if this was a Facebook app it would still be complaint, but its not a Facebook app anyway.

    I have sold over 14,000 products though the popular affiliate networks, JVZoo, Warrior+, DealGardian and some others. I know very well what they allow and do not. Heck JVZoo made this POTD and promoted it. Do you think they made a product that goes against their TOS POTD?

    Im amazed at how your here posting things acting like you know what your talking about when you obviously dont. You basically admitted you did not even read Facebooks TOS. You 'believe' its against other rules. In essence your guessing with no real knowledge. Unfortunately there will always be people with nothing better to do with their lives than gossip. I say gossip because if you had a real question you would have just contacted me and asked me, you could do a PM, you could send me a message on my blog (which you have obviously read) you did neither of these things, why? I cant say, but its likely because you dont actually want questions answered, you want to gossip for entertainment.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
      Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

      1) Do you think they made a product that goes against their TOS POTD?
      Actually, yes. It has happened before. I'm not saying it happened with your product, but it has happened before. Your point about that is invalid.

      Also, the autoclick thing, while not being specifically against FB TOS... I'll tell you, you're walking a fine line of what FB finds acceptable and if your software/plugin/whatever it is becomes too widely used (much like the UID scrapers for creating custom audiences) you're going to find yourself getting a nice letter from FB and/or a ban.

      When you use something that clearly walks a fine line of what you should inately know FB is not going to like, you should also be aware that you are playing with fire.

      This comes from a guy who spends a very good chunk of change with FB daily and has had discussions with my reps about these types of things.

      Sadly, with FB, shortcuts are a great way to run into trouble...eventually at least.
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      • Profile picture of the author brutecky
        Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

        Actually, yes. It has happened before. I'm not saying it happened with your product, but it has happened before.
        So because someone else screwed you over that must means that I am. Nice. You know one time I got mugged in Philly by a guy with glasses. I hope I never see you on the street because you will probably mug me to (same logic). The OP said 'I was a stand up guy' then contradicted himself. So really your point is not valid.

        Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

        Also, the autoclick thing, while not being specifically against FB TOS... I'll tell you, you're walking a fine line of what FB finds acceptable and if your software/plugin/whatever it is becomes too widely used (much like the UID scrapers for creating custom audiences) you're going to find yourself getting a nice letter from FB and/or a ban.
        With respect this comment is riddeled with sillyness.
        1) Its not against FB's TOS, you just agreed.
        2) So you presume to know what Facebook will and will not do, interesting, what exactly is your position of rank in Facebook that you can make a statement like this? Or are you just 'guessing' as to what you 'think' might happen and then writing as if your statements must be fact just because they popped out of your head?
        3) This is not Facebook software This is not an app on Facebook. Im surprised you dont know that since you have such a deep seated knowledge of the internal workings of Facebook.


        Thanks for your comment but is riddled with both bias thinking based on past experiences with people not related to me AND with wild assumptions.
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        • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
          Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

          So because someone else screwed you over that must means that I am. Nice. You know one time I got mugged in Philly by a guy with glasses. I hope I never see you on the street because you will probably mug me to (same logic). The OP said 'I was a stand up guy' then contradicted himself. So really your point is not valid.


          With respect this comment is riddeled with sillyness.
          1) Its not against FB's TOS, you just agreed.
          2) So you presume to know what Facebook will and will not do, interesting, what exactly is your position of rank in Facebook that you can make a statement like this? Or are you just 'guessing' as to what you 'think' might happen and then writing as if your statements must be fact just because they popped out of your head?
          3) This is not Facebook software This is not an app on Facebook. Im surprised you dont know that since you have such a deep seated knowledge of the internal workings of Facebook.


          Thanks for your comment but is riddled with both bias thinking based on past experiences with people not related to me AND with wild assumptions.
          Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

          So because someone else screwed you over that must means that I am. Nice. You know one time I got mugged in Philly by a guy with glasses. I hope I never see you on the street because you will probably mug me to (same logic). The OP said 'I was a stand up guy' then contradicted himself. So really your point is not valid.
          Slow your roll. Nobody EVER screwed me, so it has nothing to do with anything that I posted. You've jumped to some pretty big conclusions I'm guessing because you posted more out of emotion rather than thinking more in depth about what you were writing. Calm down.

          My point is perfectly valid. You decided to put forth an argument that was completely invalid as there HAVE BEEN products that violate FB TOS that have been product of the day, wso of the day, etc... Your point there was invalid simply because it wasn't factual whatsoever.

          Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

          With respect this comment is riddeled with sillyness.
          1) Its not against FB's TOS, you just agreed.
          I appreciate that you believe it is riddled with sillyness, however with respect you're wrong.

          I sure did agree it may currently be within FB TOS. However, there have been many apps, pieces of software and chrome extensions/add-ons over the past year and half that were fully compliant with FB TOS but yet, FB still decided to shut accounts down, simply because they didn't like what people were doing with those tools. Then FB changed their TOS to reflect their discontent with those tools.

          Any tool that creates what could be perceived as a poor user experience for FB users runs the risk of coming under fire from FB and any users run the risk of coming under that same fire. FB doesn't play fair. Pretending it does is being willfully blind.

          Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

          2) So you presume to know what Facebook will and will not do, interesting, what exactly is your position of rank in Facebook that you can make a statement like this? Or are you just 'guessing' as to what you 'think' might happen and then writing as if your statements must be fact just because they popped out of your head?
          I don't presume to "know" what they will do. I have witnessed and experienced their actions over the past 3 years. It isn't hard to see the writing on the wall, much the way Adwords went with Google years ago. Feel free to act like it doesn't exist, but you're doing yourself and your customers no favours by acting the way you are. Also, if you're trying to rebut something you may want to present more than questions because you formed NO ARGUMENT that indicates why my opinion and/or observations are incorrect in your view.

          Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

          3) This is not Facebook software This is not an app on Facebook. Im surprised you dont know that since you have such a deep seated knowledge of the internal workings of Facebook.
          Whether it be an app, a technique, a piece of software. It doesn't really matter. If FB doesn't like what you're doing, they will shut you down. At their discretion. Whether within their TOS or not. With NO RECOURSE for you to take in order to get your ad account back. It happens day in and day out. Again, you're playing dumb about this, but I'm pretty confident you know the reality. If not, consider yourself educated regarding the reality.

          Marketers may love your autoclick-through video. Some FB users may love it. With that being said, if FB decides it isn't supporting their goal of a pleasant user experience above all, then using whatever your autoclick thing actually is will put your account at risk. It may work great right now, and be "ok" for now, but all it takes is a few complaints that are strong enough for FB to come down on the technique and those using it.

          Have you asked your ad account rep about it? Have you talked to other high-volume advertisers about it and have had them talk to their reps? Just curious. I'd love to hear their responses. I know what my rep thinks and the reps of a few other high-volume advertisers think of this kind of thing.

          Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

          Thanks for your comment but is riddled with both bias thinking based on past experiences with people not related to me AND with wild assumptions.
          No wild assumptions. Not being biased at all. I'm perfectly and firmly footed in the reality of using FB PPC and doing my best to stay on their good side. I've done my research, it appears you haven't.

          It would be awesome if using this technique fits perfectly with FB's stated goal of a great user experience above all else. Hopefully it is, but the reality is, it probably isn't.
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  • Profile picture of the author thomasmps
    This product looks good to me but I am curious how can you use it to make some money if you don't mind asking.

    If you can put out a few examples then I am all in!

    thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author brutecky
    Ahh I see, when you where saying, 'It has happened before' I assumed you where speaking out of experience, my fault for assuming, but I honestly did not think someone would actually make a statement on things that did not happen to them personally.

    Anyway, Im not making an argument because Im not arguing. Here it is in a nutshell. this does not violate FB's TOS in any way. Period.

    Can Facebook decide to stop showing videos for no reason other then they feel like it?: Yes

    Can Facebook decide to stop allowing links for no reason other than they feel like it?: Yes

    Can Facebook decide to block my servers for no reason other then they feel like it?: Yes

    Can Facebook .... we can go on and on and on. We can play the what if game all day.

    Can Facebook become unpopular because some new start up took over their user base: Yes (it has happened before you know)

    Can Facebook just decide to remove groups or fan pages all together: Yes

    Can Facebook ... see like I said .. we can keep playing that what if .. all you like..


    So yes, while Facebook MAY change their rules to make a software like this no longer allowed, I also MAY also die tomorrow, you may win the lotto, World War 3 might break out .. and lots of other things that DID happen before, might happen again.

    Frankly if your that worried about Facebook changing things then you should not be doing Facebook marketing anyway, so really this does not apply to you and you really should not be buying any Facebook product.

    But what may or may not happen is not really what this thread was started about. I believe the OP started this tread asking if this product violates any TOS as they stand. Not to ask if Facebook might change something in the future.

    I cant intelligently predict the future and I also cant make a software based on what might or might not happen. I can only create a product that follows the rules at the time of creation.

    Anyway, thanks for the comments and the posts. Appreciate your point of view. To avoid this discussion deteriorating into an argument that will be the final comment I make on this thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
      Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

      Anyway, thanks for the comments and the posts. Appreciate your point of view. To avoid this discussion deteriorating into an argument that will be the final comment I make on this thread.
      Fair enough brother. Best of luck with the launch. As a bonus to the buyers, maybe do a video about how to combine it with retargetting
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      • Profile picture of the author RussGu3
        You know, there's nothing like asking some legitimate questions about a product to see what some people are made of.

        Geez, you'd think I'd called him out by name and assailed him with a barrage of expletives and epithets.

        I'm not only a past customer (more than once) but also a potential customer.

        Instead, I'm treated like using this forum, category and thread in exactly the way they are intended is probably the most heinous thing I could have done.

        And being belittled, insulted, talked down to, and sarcastically "educated" in the way you did it should get you banned from this forum, frankly.

        Pride of ownership is one thing. Having an emotional blowup is entirely another.

        But like I said, this place sure brings out people's true colors sometimes.

        And for the record, I spoke to concerns about automatically redirecting offsite, cookie-ing and retargeting. Without the visitor ever actually taking an action (or by simply playing a video).

        Three things that involve the three entities I mentioned: Facebook, Affiliate Networks and the FTC.

        And here's the thing: I asked the questions because I saw how clever the software is, but also wanted to know if the creator had actually looked into all the legal issues it could bring into play.

        Or if any Forum members were well versed on such matters.

        You know - the whole "permission based marketing" thing. If I don't give you permission (by taking a specific action), you can't market to me, cookie me, redirect me, retarget me, etc.

        And more importantly, what can happen to me if I do those things WITHOUT permission?!

        Thanks James for at least trying to help clarify my concerns. Fine line is right. Too fine!

        SO much respect lost in a single thread...sad.
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        Russ Guthrie
        ResponsePerformance.Marketing

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