ListWire Question(s).....

37 replies
Before I start, I want to make it CLEAR I'm not asking anyone to bash a product and/or service. I also do NOT want people's opinions that Aweber or Infusionsoft or iContact or Mailchimp or any other autoresponder is better. I'm looking for people who have USED ListWire, and what they're experience has been. If you haven't used them, then please do NOT respond, OK?


Like many others, I like the FREE stuff! I also understand that "free" comes with a price as I know the company (ListWire) has to generate income, that's just business.

I understand a person who gets a ListWire account will get marketed to, again...that's business. I do NOT have an issue with that.

To be honest, I have set up a LW account and I'm working my way through to see how to set it up. I have done a couple of test emails and that's where my question comes in.

I noticed that each time the subscriber has to click on the link to verify the email address, which is common and I do NOT have an issue with. But here is my question......

Will every subscriber be taken to TWO OTO pages from ListWire? I do understand why LW is doing this, but my list/subscribers have nothing to do with making money online. If that's the case, I can work around that, no worries.

Also, after that initial two page OTO, will LW market to my list anymore?

I do NOT have an issue with LW adding a link to their site at the bottom of the email message....everyone does that. (I just checked an email I got and infusionsoft does it too)

I'm just trying to weed through all the mumbo-jumbo people put out there and find out from people who are using ListWire.

Thanks for your time.
Andrew.
#listwire #questions
  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    garytheace is a member here who owns listwire. he also runs another paid AR service as well as several viral sites that are safelist type of sites. he knows his email marketing stuff.

    Listwire never has and probably never will market to your subscribers via email other than the OTO's

    Gary will send you, the guy who is using his free Ar service, quite a few emails. but as you say, you understand that is business.

    i am sure you have heard it before, I wouldnt suggest listwire due to a few limitations it has over aweber/getresponse. but then there is that FREE thing. if you cant pay for an AR, then by all means use listwire.

    But dont plan it being your END solution. if your email marketing cant support the cost of an AR service, then you are doing multiple things wrong. But for setup and to get your feet wet kinda thing its not a bad option that is fairly viable.

    and yes, i have used listwire. i have a couple accounts with them as well as probably more than 20 other AR companies.
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  • Profile picture of the author Coyotex
    David, thank you very much!
    That is EXACTLY the kind of response I was looking for, someone who has used the service.

    Again, thank you for your honesty.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
    Hey All,

    Just to answer the question...

    Yes, we show one offer to each new subscriber, AFTER confirmation, and one offer, to each subscriber, AFTER they remove themselves from your list.

    This was the least intrusive system w've found to try to monetize the traffic coming in, so we can continue to support the over 150,000 accounts in the system.

    The idea behind showing the offers we do, in the way that we do, is that the opt-in process isn't impacted in any way, and the confirmation process isn't impacted in any way. Doing it this particular way means that your opt-in rates, and confirmation rates aren't going to be negatively impacted by our need to make enough to keep the servers online.

    It's the same process that any paid service uses, until that one instance AFTER the subscriber has confirmed their subscription, and are successfully added to your list.

    There are no other advertisements, of any kind, going to your subscribers. We won't email them, or sell them, or contact them via postal mail, or carrier pigeon, or anything else.

    If there are any other questions, I pop in here from time to time...

    -Gary

    P.S. If you're a current user, you may have noticed we recently upgraded our machines due to the enormous growth we've experienced. We're now on bigger, better machines, that can handle the massive amounts of traffic, and email, flowing through the system.
    Signature
    If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

    P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
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  • Profile picture of the author Coyotex
    Thanks Gary! Thanks for being upfront about things. But, just to let you know, when I subscribed and verified my email, I was taken to a page and chose the "not interested" option, then was taken to another page...again, I chose "not interested". That's what I meant by TWO OTO pages.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
      That could be a bug related to our recent upgrade, have you posted about it on the thread on the forum? if not, could you please do so? Our main developer is monitoring that thread daily for any bugs that may have popped up during the move/upgrade.

      Thanks,
      Gary
      Signature
      If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

      P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
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  • Profile picture of the author Coyotex
    Gary, I'm assuming you're taking about the forum on the LW page?
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    The forum on the site. That is correct.

    I can confirm what Gary has said I used LW for a while before and at no time did they market to my list.
    It is just not done. Gary is a fellow who has been around for a long time. He created the service to help people and of course he is a marketer so he has to make money too.

    Listwire , Gee Gary it has been years now it has been going . I joined it when it was opened, I think? So good job on it
    Anyhow just wanted to chime in, I used it, I know he didn't email my list. Support is responsive. It is a good service.

    Best,
    -WD
    Signature

    "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"
    Coming Soon http://graphicsdon.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Coyotex
    Thanks guys! I added my situation/experience to the member's forum on the ListWire website.
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  • Profile picture of the author Coyotex
    Gary, so far, I'm loving the interface for ListWire. Of course, there is a bit of a learning curve, but I'm figuring it out. I will ask you for something though, could you pop into the forum and help answer a few questions? The admin guy is trying his best, and I'm sure it could be me, but I'm just not following his logic with a question I've posted about how the process works.

    Oh, and just to be clear, I don't have an issue with anything, I'm just trying to understand the "flow" of how everything goes so in case one of my subscribers asks me, I can give a good answer.

    It may not make sense here, but if you go to the LW Forum, you'll see what I'm talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author opoqo
    I would steer a long way clear of any company that runs a service where it is impossible to unsubscribe.
    I have filters in my gmail account for Gary Ambrose, Listwire, EmailAces simply because no matter how many times I hit the unsubscribe link more rubbish comes from this guy.

    I wouldn't normally post something like this here but people need to be warned about spammers because it will impact on their business too if they use any of the same services.

    So tell me (and hundreds of other people) Gary, how does anyone ever stop getting stuff they don't want to receive from you?
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    • Profile picture of the author Paleochora
      Originally Posted by opoqo View Post

      So tell me (and hundreds of other people) Gary, how does anyone ever stop getting stuff they don't want to receive from you?
      I unsubbed 2 or 3 years back & never got another email from Gary. Worked for me, maybe you are on multiple lists?
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      • Profile picture of the author opoqo
        Originally Posted by Paleochora View Post

        I unsubbed 2 or 3 years back & never got another email from Gary. Worked for me, maybe you are on multiple lists?
        You got lucky - the only reason I'm on multiple lists is because he puts me there not because I did so myself.
        This is a widespread problem well documented by many ethical marketers online.
        And don't be surprised if you magically start receiving spam in the future.
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        • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
          Interesting.
          I never received any emails from Gary once I was unsubscribed.

          So, it seems not everyone has experienced this. Wouldn't it seem odd being if this was true why it wouldn't be for others? Seems strange but, I can only relate my own experience.

          Best,
          -WD
          Signature

          "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"
          Coming Soon http://graphicsdon.com

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          • Profile picture of the author opoqo
            Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

            Interesting.
            I never received any emails from Gary once I was unsubscribed.

            So, it seems not everyone has experienced this. Wouldn't it seem odd being if this was true why it wouldn't be for others? Seems strange but, I can only relate my own experience.

            Best,
            -WD
            It's a widespread problem with him WD and don't think that just because you haven't received anything so far it won't happen in the future.
            I could list lot of places on the internet where reputable marketers have posted information and others have commented on that information with the same problems.
            It is a VERY well known problem.
            A simple Google search will help you find information worth reading.
            It's your business so you get to choose who you're willing to align that with but I can tell you that hundreds of people have blanket filters to automatically delete anything associated with him and his services so unfortunately for those who are ethical in their marketing, their correspondence ends up not getting seen... filtered like all the rest.
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            • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
              Originally Posted by opoqo View Post

              It's a widespread problem with him WD and don't think that just because you haven't received anything so far it won't happen in the future.
              I could list lot of places on the internet where reputable marketers have posted information and others have commented on that information with the same problems.
              It is a VERY well known problem.
              A simple Google search will help you find information worth reading.
              It's your business so you get to choose who you're willing to align that with but I can tell you that hundreds of people have blanket filters to automatically delete anything associated with him and his services so unfortunately for those who are ethical in their marketing, their correspondence ends up not getting seen... filtered like all the rest.
              Geoff... I've asked you before, and I'll do it again...

              If you don't want to be on my lists, simply email me and I'll add you to my global blacklist that applies across all 7 of the services to send email through. Between those 7 services I have well over 1,000 individual sub-lists, and not all of them are mailed at the same time. In some cases there are months that go by before I mail one of those sub-lists, and if you're on one of those, you're going to get the message.

              Between those 1,000 lists, there are over 2,000,000 total subscribers... I don't send 2,000,000 emails per day.

              When you're emailing that many people (sometimes up to 1,000,000 per day), you're going to have issues now and again... it happens to everyone playing on this scale at one point or another.

              As others have stated, if you click the remove link, you're off the list you removed yourself from. Some of the services I use (including Email Aces & List Wire) allow you to remove yourself from all the lists associated with the account that mail is being sent from, some of the services I use don't allow that. In some cases, you may also be on lists that are spread across multiple accounts (I have 5 Email Aces accounts for example), in this case, if you're one on "account" on 5 "lists" of that account, you could remove yourself from 5 lists, but still be on a list that's a part of another "account".

              The one, and only way to remedy this is to let me add you to my global blacklist that gets run automatically on all new subscriptions, and manually every month or so across all lists just to double-check that nothing slipped through the cracks.

              There's no benefit to me having you, or anyone else who doesn't want to be there, on my lists. The only things that can happen in those cases are bad... spam complaints, poor engagement, etc.

              Why would I want you on my list, if you don't want to be there?

              -Gary
              Signature
              If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

              P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
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  • Profile picture of the author opoqo
    Gary I haven't requested to be on any of your lists for YEARS but I have requested to be removed MANY times.

    Unsub links don't work and when they 'seem to work' emails magically start arriving again.
    I have several email addresses and they all have similar problems... all filtered to auto delete now, so there is certainly no benefit to you from that... including your garyambrose.com & garytheace.com emails.

    If all unsub links worked correctly (as they should) there wouldn't be a problem.
    Every email should have an unsub link that works.

    I won't ask any of the many people on my lists to comment here on their experience with you... it wouldn't do your business any good.
    I've said a LOT less than I could have about this and will say no more (unless pushed)

    That's it - everyone can make their own decisions and choose who they want to align their business and brand with.

    Maybe something good will come from this because as you said....
    "Why would I want you on my list, if you don't want to be there?"

    I've often wondered why and desperation comes to mind.

    Good luck with your ventures and those who choose to use you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
      As stated Geoff, the unsub links are working fine... as they have been since day on. If you choose to ignore what I said about using multiple services, that aren't (and can't be) connected, there's nothing more I can do.

      In terms of people's experience with me, anyone is free to post whatever they'd like. I've been doing this since 1998, and have served well over 250,000 paying clients, and over 3,000,000 members and/or subscribers to my services.

      I don't know of a single business, in any industry, that has had over 3,000,000 people deal with them without a few problems coming up. That said, I've been using my own name since day one, and I'm still doing just fine.

      Spam complaints are going to happen, no matter who you are... and I can state this as fact after having been the list provider for some of the biggest, and most respected names in multiple industries. It happens to everyone once you start reaching a bigger audience. The same applies to refund requests, message board posts, or whatever else.

      This is precisely the reason that a lot of people choose to hide behind a "pen name"... and as you may have noticed, I'm not one of those people.

      All that said, it seems you've made up your mind about me, and I'm not going to try to change it.

      Best of luck to you as well, and to those who choose to work with you.

      -Gary
      Signature
      If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

      P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
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  • Profile picture of the author opoqo
    Well wouldn't you believe it.
    I turned off one spam filter on one email account (my main email account) and within a few hours the first Ambrose spam hit my inbox.
    What I can't understand - is the level of stupidity doing that after what has been said in these posts.
    It certainly proves what I and many people have been saying.

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    • Profile picture of the author opoqo
      So once again I decided to click on the unsub link to unsub from a list that I never subscribed to in the first place and what do I see...

      Two lists

      One from back in 2011 that I never subscribed to and one from January 13th 2014.

      Here's the thing... I never subscribed to ANY lists in 2014 and I can assure anyone reading this that I would never subscribe to an Ambrose list even if I was paid to do so.

      PROOF
      http://ambrosespamproblem.s3.amazona...roseSpam-2.png

      It's beyond a joke.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
        I found the email address in question based on the screenshots, and added it to the blacklisting system we use across our sites. That email address should never receive another email from us... it was on a total of 13 different lists going back to 2011, 11 of which were marked as removed.

        It was also on other marketing lists, owned by other marketers... yes, with a few subscriptions in 2014.

        You're a marketer, but didn't opt-in to a single thing in all of 2014?

        Seems a little far-fetched if you ask me.

        -Gary
        Signature
        If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

        P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
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        • Profile picture of the author opoqo
          It was also on other marketing lists, owned by other marketers... yes, with a few subscriptions in 2014.
          That's a concern that you say my email address was on other marketing lists owned by other marketers.... How would you have access to that information IF it was true which it isn't anyway?

          And no - there haven't been ANY subscriptions from that email address at all in 2014!
          It's not an address I use to optin to lists because I don't want it spammed.
          You really think I would send my email address to anything connected with you when I haven't been able to get rid of you for YEARS?

          You're a marketer, but didn't opt-in to a single thing in all of 2014?
          Seems a little far-fetched if you ask me.
          Correct - not one optin to any list in 2014 and this year will be exactly the same.

          The only thing far-fetched in this thread are your replies but I'm happy to keep the conversations going for as long as you like because it will keep this discussion in the eyes of the people who need to make decisions about their business, their customers, their lists and the security of their own and their customers private information.

          And by the way - I do have other email addresses, as do my colleagues and any one of us can turn the filters off and grab screenshots of your emails at any time.

          Your turn.... and then I will be back to reply once again.
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          • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
            Originally Posted by opoqo View Post

            That's a concern that you say my email address was on other marketing lists owned by other marketers.... How would you have access to that information IF it was true which it isn't anyway?

            And no - there haven't been ANY subscriptions from that email address at all in 2014!
            It's not an address I use to optin to lists because I don't want it spammed.
            You really think I would send my email address to anything connected with you when I haven't been able to get rid of you for YEARS?
            How would I know this? Simple... I run multiple autoresponder companies. When I search for an email in the database, I can see all the lists it's subscribed to, and who owns those lists.

            If your email address was on multiple lists in Aweber, or GetResponse, or Email Aces, or anywhere else... don't you think they'd be able to tell? Of course they can, and so can I.


            Originally Posted by opoqo View Post

            Correct - not one optin to any list in 2014 and this year will be exactly the same.

            The only thing far-fetched in this thread are your replies but I'm happy to keep the conversations going for as long as you like because it will keep this discussion in the eyes of the people who need to make decisions about their business, their customers, their lists and the security of their own and their customers private information.

            And by the way - I do have other email addresses, as do my colleagues and any one of us can turn the filters off and grab screenshots of your emails at any time.

            Your turn.... and then I will be back to reply once again.
            I'm sure you have multiple other emails Geoff, and as I've said before, I'd be more than happy to add you to our system-wide blacklisting system... you're the one making the decision not to do so.

            The others in this thread have already jumped in, and said that the remove links work just fine, and that the security of their lists is as promised. As I've also stated, I'm not surprised to have issues with a few people from time to time, that's going to happen when you're dealing with millions of people. It happens to everyone when you reach a certain scale.

            I'm not asking anyone to filter anything. If you don't want to be on any of the lists in our systems, it's simple, request to be blacklisted and none of your email addresses will ever be sent a single email from any of our systems at any time. That means from my lists, and from the lists of the clients we've been supporting since as far back as 2003.

            We maintain the lists for over 100,000 marketers with ListWire, and have maintained the lists of over 25,000 marketers with Email Aces.

            I've made it more than clear that I'm both willing, and eager to remove anyone from my lists that doesn't want to be there. If you don't remove yourself (which you didn't, prior to me manually removing you earlier), then I can only assume you want to be on those lists.

            I don't manually go through over 1,000,000 records and guess at who wants to be on my list, and who doesn't... I let the remove links do the work they're supposed to do.

            -Gary
            Signature
            If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

            P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
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            • Profile picture of the author opoqo
              How would I know this? Simple... I run multiple autoresponder companies. When I search for an email in the database, I can see all the lists it's subscribed to, and who owns those lists.
              That's the concern. You and access to other people's lists.
              That is the ONLY way email addresses I have, could have landed on YOUR list and received YOUR irrelevant bizopp promotions.


              I'm sure you have multiple other emails Geoff, and as I've said before, I'd be more than happy to add you to our system-wide blacklisting system... you're the one making the decision not to do so.
              You're automatically deleted,,, garytheace.com garyambrose.com emailaces, listwire.
              That's not the problem... well it is a problem because you're an uninvited intruder into my email account but the BIG problem is WHAT YOU'RE DOING and how that impacts on other people.

              You didn't have permission to email.

              I've unsubbed from your numerous lists for years... but new ones appear.
              You know all this of course.
              I'm mentioning this for other people to make informed decisions.
              People who ask for trusted advice.

              I only came upon this thread because someone asked me whether you were a safe bet to run their autoresponder.

              The remove links don't work fine otherwise there would never be a problem and we wouldn't even be having this discussion... actually we would because even if/when the links work the emails magically start reappearing from another one of your many bizopp promoting email addresses.


              As I've also stated, I'm not surprised to have issues with a few people from time to time, that's going to happen when you're dealing with millions of people. It happens to everyone when you reach a certain scale.
              A few people from time to time... that gave me a laugh. Joke I assume.
              These are not problems that should ever be happening with someone who runs an email service.
              There are simple systems that all the reputable providers have in place.
              Like only have people on a list that they have subscribed to.
              Have an unsub link that works.
              Not adding any email address to another list without permission.
              All the usual CAN-SPAM stuff.

              If you don't want to be on any of the lists in our systems, it's simple, request to be blacklisted and none of your email addresses will ever be sent a single email from any of our systems at any time. That means from my lists, and from the lists of the clients we've been supporting since as far back as 2003.
              It's actually a lot simpler than that. Have an unsub link that lets a genuine subscriber remove themself from the list they chose to optin to and never put them on another list without their permission.
              And don't make people who never subscribed to a list have to unsub.

              I've made it more than clear that I'm both willing, and eager to remove anyone from my lists that doesn't want to be there.
              You don't have to do that. By following proper procedures and having the correct systems in place that all the other email services have, in accordance with the law, the subscribers will be able to do that for themselves. They will have control over who does what with their email addresses.

              If you don't remove yourself (which you didn't, prior to me manually removing you earlier), then I can only assume you want to be on those lists.
              This is farcical
              I haven't been able to remove myself.
              That's the problem.
              I didn't optin to the lists.
              That's the other problem.
              I can't remove myself from lists I never wanted to be on in the first place.

              And it's not just me.
              I can supply a WHOLE LOT MORE Information.
              A WHOLE LOT MORE

              I let the remove links do the work they're supposed to do.
              If only.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
    So I'm following this discussion. Maybe you could help me out, I'm just confused...

    How did you come to the conclusion that your service isn't spamming in light of what people are reporting? Have you considered that there appear to be other, credible people (and apparently a number of reputable names) voicing the same concerns with your service when you search for it? Are they all mistaken?
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    • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
      Geoff, it appears you have more free time than I do, so congratulations... YOU WIN!

      The only 2 things I'll say are...

      When you remove yourself from a list, on any service, you aren't prevented from being added to that list again in the future. This holds true at all of the major services.

      Finally, I'll let my reputation stand on its own. After being in this field since 1998, and having served hundreds of thousands of customers, members, and subscribers... having a handful of complaints floating around is nothing to be ashamed of. I'm not aware of any company with 15+ years in business that has no complaints.

      I've done business under my own name, and have hundreds of thousands of happy customers, members, and subscribers.

      Would I like a 100% satisfaction rate? Sure, in a perfect world that'd be great... but, it's not realistic. I'm fine with that.

      I'm more than happy to provide free services to over 100,000+ marketers trying to start their businesses online. I'll let the cheers of the majority drown out the "boos" of the few.

      -Gary
      Signature
      If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

      P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
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      • Profile picture of the author opoqo
        Originally Posted by Gary_The_Ace View Post

        Geoff, it appears you have more free time than I do, so congratulations... YOU WIN!
        I didn't realise it was a competition but I do believe that good wins in the end.
        I must say though, having a genuine business and good business ethics does afford me a lot more spare time and I use that time to help those who need TRUSTED help.
        To me this was all about WARNING people to ensure their business is in safe hands and each time this thread is bumped to the top more people will hopefully see what has been happening and if they take the time to investigate (with a simple Google search of your name) they will learn a lot more.
        I could (and probably should) post a lot of links for their reading pleasure but I'd be surprised if anyone with any business sense couldn't see what's going on here anyway.
        If not I'm willing to do that at some stage.

        The only 2 things I'll say are...
        When you remove yourself from a list, on any service, you aren't prevented from being added to that list again in the future. This holds true at all of the major services.
        WHAT! When you remove yourself from a list on any reputable service you are REMOVED. That's what removal means. You don't get 'added back to that list again in the future' UNLESS YOU CHOOSE TO DO THAT. Unless you choose to opt back in. NOT because someone who controls the database decides they want to send you some BS bizopp offers.

        Finally, I'll let my reputation stand on its own. After being in this field since 1998, and having served hundreds of thousands of customers, members, and subscribers... having a handful of complaints floating around is nothing to be ashamed of. I'm not aware of any company with 15+ years in business that has no complaints.
        START Date 1998 - we both have that in common.
        From there all similarities end.
        Your reputation is well and truly documented online and it doesn't matter how many hundreds of thousands of people you say you have SERVED, it's the emails you've served to people who never wanted them that matters most.
        That is the problem... and that is why your reputation is what it is.

        I'm more than happy to provide free services to over 100,000+ marketers trying to start their businesses online. I'll let the cheers of the majority drown out the "boos" of the few.
        The thing is - It's NOT FREE. There is a price to pay for anyone who is unfortunate enough to have their email address in your hands.
        There is a cost in time with all SPAM. That's why there are laws and that's why people have been thrown in prison for SPAM. Because it is a cost. It is a Cancer to businesses.

        It's 2015 Gary.
        It's time for change.
        It's time to stop doing what was common back in 1998 and what the authorities have tried to stamp out.
        Have respect for your customers and those who are customers of your customers.
        Email addresses are the property of the subscriber.
        The customer should get to make the choices not you.
        The customer should get to choose what lists they want to be on and they should get to choose what lists they want to be removed from.
        You don't have the authority to add people to other lists.
        You didn't have the authority to add my email address to another of your lists in 2014 and YOU KNOW THAT!
        Your reply that it seemed a little far-fetched that I didn't optin to any lists in 2014 with that email address sums up your attitude completely. It's not a decision you have the right to make.
        You are NOT allowed to add me or anyone else to one of your lists just because you think it's far fetched that I or they don't use that email address to subscribe to lists.

        What did you think? That my email address was lonely?
        And do you honestly think that I would be interested in any of the many offers you mail out that will not help anyone achieve any level of success let alone someone who has the resources to make something work IF it did work.

        The new owners of the Warrior Forum have made massive changes towards tidying up this place and it has seen the disappearance of many people with poor reputations, poor business ethics, shonky products and services.
        They are safeguarding their members as best as possible to ensure a better future for all.
        It's a step in the right direction that hopefully will encourage more to follow.

        Let's keep this conversation going as long as possible so it's in the eyes of those who need to read it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
          Thanks for the laugh Geoff, much needed after a tough day at the office...

          I'm not going to bother arguing with someone who continues to twist my words into something they're not. You seem to have some anger issues to work out... you're very upset, but when provided a solution, you're not willing to take it.

          That continues to baffle me, but it's your life.

          It's odd that you'd think serving well over 100,000 clients with very few issues means nothing, but again... I don't understand the way your version of logic works. I've always thought that's exactly how reputations were built.

          As for the service not being free, it's as free as anything any marketer provides. I'm providing a service, and in exchange, I'm being given permission to email the people using my service. It's no different than providing a free report, and asking for an email address to get access to the report beforehand. That's pretty standard practice, and probably the most recommended way to generate a subscriber list there is.

          If that's not for you, hey... no problem. I've already said that the service isn't for everyone.

          For the sake of clarity, when I say I'm being given permission to email the people using my service, I mean that I'm being given permission to email the users of my system... in other words, the account holders. I have made it very clear that no email will ever go to the subscribers that our account holders generate. This is what I've said since day one, and this is the way it's always going to be.

          If you generate a subscriber on List Wire, that's your subscriber, and they'll never get a single message from List Wire unless they join one of our lists of their own free will.

          -Gary
          Signature
          If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

          P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
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          • Profile picture of the author opoqo
            Originally Posted by Gary_The_Ace View Post

            Thanks for the laugh Geoff, much needed after a tough day at the office...

            I'm not going to bother arguing with someone who continues to twist my words into something they're not. You seem to have some anger issues to work out... you're very upset, but when provided a solution, you're not willing to take it.

            That continues to baffle me, but it's your life.

            It's odd that you'd think serving well over 100,000 clients with very few issues means nothing, but again... I don't understand the way your version of logic works. I've always thought that's exactly how reputations were built.

            As for the service not being free, it's as free as anything any marketer provides. I'm providing a service, and in exchange, I'm being given permission to email the people using my service. It's no different than providing a free report, and asking for an email address to get access to the report beforehand. That's pretty standard practice, and probably the most recommended way to generate a subscriber list there is.

            If that's not for you, hey... no problem. I've already said that the service isn't for everyone.

            For the sake of clarity, when I say I'm being given permission to email the people using my service, I mean that I'm being given permission to email the users of my system... in other words, the account holders. I have made it very clear that no email will ever go to the subscribers that our account holders generate. This is what I've said since day one, and this is the way it's always going to be.

            If you generate a subscriber on List Wire, that's your subscriber, and they'll never get a single message from List Wire unless they join one of our lists of their own free will.

            -Gary
            Everything you've said in that last post is really quite irrelevant as there is REAL Proof in the links and screenshots that anyone can see what's happening and why they need to avoid anything to do with you and your services.

            I don't doubt you have MANY tough days at the office Gary... that's about the ONLY thing you've said that we can believe. Tough days are to be expected when you run your business in the manner you choose.
            I've been getting a WHOLE lot of feedback, links, screenshots of spammed email accounts and more from people following this thread which leads me to your comment on anger issues.

            Once again an incorrect assumption... like the incorrect assumption that you could send me spam because I am a marketer and I should have used my email address to optin to a list in 2014 so I was fair game for you to add me to yet another of your lists.

            I'm not angry Gary - I'm happy that this conversation on a public forum will help save people from the dangers of risking their business, their email address and their customers emails addresses getting involved with anything you're up to.

            The links below will give people more insight into your reputation, the way you've been operating for years and continue to operate.

            The WARNING SIGNS are clear for all to see.

            I will continue to keep this thread current in an effort to help people make the right decisions and I thank you Gary for keeping the conversation going.

            I do of course have a lot more evidence available to post here as needed, from me and MANY other people you've chosen to spam over the years.
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        • Profile picture of the author GaryBurke
          [QUOTE=opoqo;987

          The new owners of the Warrior Forum have made massive changes towards tidying up this place and it has seen the disappearance of many people with poor reputations, poor business ethics, shonky products and services.
          They are safeguarding their members as best as possible to ensure a better future for all.
          It's a step in the right direction that hopefully will encourage more to follow.

          Let's keep this conversation going as long as possible so it's in the eyes of those who need to read it.[/QUOTE]

          They also have a rule about badmouthing other members and could have your account deleted so If I was you I would just let it go before someone reports you to the admin and you get your account deleted.
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          • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
            Well, I have no dog in this fight. All I can do is relate my own experience.

            Reviewing the things posted, problems seem to exist
            I am sorry people have had trouble I honestly wasn't aware. I never have had any issues with Gary myself and the service was pretty good. I only could relate that.
            Best,
            -WD
            Signature

            "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"
            Coming Soon http://graphicsdon.com

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  • Profile picture of the author opoqo
    I will refer to this 2010 SPAM shortly

    http://ambrosespamproblem.s3.amazona...mbroseSpam.png

    I will refer to this 2011 SPAM shortly

    http://ambrosespamproblem.s3.amazona...mbroseSpam.png
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  • Profile picture of the author thattaway
    This started out to be such a good thread, with the very qestions that I had as well. But... this isn't the first time a good discussion on the WF got hijacked and run into a ditch.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
      Originally Posted by thattaway View Post

      This started out to be such a good thread, with the very qestions that I had as well. But... this isn't the first time a good discussion on the WF got hijacked and run into a ditch.
      If you took the time to actually read through everything you'd see that this thread is far more informative than you realize. It hasn't been hijacked, unless that is you count a documented and in-depth review of business practices of this service a hijacking.
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  • Profile picture of the author devonm
    I was thinking of listwire for the entry area, then if they bought the product advertised in the footer of my free newsletter, THEN a Aweber could then become employed for the PAID people who have actually BOUGHT my ebook. Listwire for intro, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
    If you want to use our service, that's fine... and over 200,000 users have chosen to do so.

    If it's not for you, that's fine too.

    There's no point in me pushing a free service here, one that we barely make a cent on, and only created as a way to help people who are just starting out.

    If you want to search the forum for past threads on the topic, you may find the story behind why the site was created in the first place...

    There a millions of people who CAN NOT afford $20 a month. There are millions of people who earn less than $20 a month. Believe it, don't believe it... doesn't matter to me.

    What does matter to me is, we've helped put toys under the Christmas tree, clothes on children's backs, and food in people's mouths. We've helped earn thousands of people their first dollar (and more) online. That's a fact, and quite frankly... that's good enough for me.

    -Gary Ambrose
    List Wire
    Signature
    If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

    P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
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  • Profile picture of the author LifeIsGood
    I haven't personally used List Wire (or Email Aces, for that matter), but they look excellent, each in their own way.
    Gary's professional responses here speak volumes. Seems like a genuine, stand-up guy.
    Anyone serving that many clients (free, paid, or otherwise) has gotta be doing something valuable.
    Think I'll check them out.

    LifeIsGood ~ It's About To Get Even Better!
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