Reliable alternative to PayPal?

115 replies
Does anyone know of a reliable alternative to PayPal? I've had enough of their ridiculous internal policies. Help, advice, suggestions, comments will be appreciated.

Sydney
#alternative #paypal #reliable
  • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
    Google Checkout, which is pretty much an identical twin to PayPal.

    I've been happy with Authorize.Net, but Wells Fargo Merchant is my favorite, however I'm not positive that you have access to Wells Fargo in Panama.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Thanks FaJeeb!

      I will check out Wells Fargo to see if it is available to me. I have a major CPA/continuity product launch coming up in January and expect tens of thousands in monthly income so I definitely want reliability and none of PayPal's nonsense. Too much already!!!

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author Headfirst
    I haven't had any issues with paypal, but I wouldn't rely on it for a big launch. Google Checkout that was mentioned above is quite good as is amazon simple payment system.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Headfirst View Post

      I haven't had any issues with paypal, but I wouldn't rely on it for a big launch. Google Checkout that was mentioned above is quite good as is amazon simple payment system.
      Thanks Headfirst! I will check out both of them. Google and Amazon are both highly trusted and I already use Amazon servers for customers to download my content. I totally agree with you about PayPal. I have been just testing the water with small orders so far; they would freeze my account the first week if predictions about the launch are anywhere near accurate!

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author AverageGuy
    2checkout.com is good.


    david
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by AverageGuy View Post

      2checkout.com is good.


      david
      Thank you David! I will check them out.

      Tonight I have also been checking out CC Bill. I see lots of complaints, but then I see lots about all of them! Complaints get published; kudos rarely do. But I have been impressed with how the customer service people have responded to most of these complaints.

      With the sums I may be receiving monthly after the launch I am doubly nervous about everyone! I'm sure everyone can understand that.

      All the best,

      Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
        Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

        Thank you David! I will check them out.

        Tonight I have also been checking out CC Bill. I see lots of complaints, but then I see lots about all of them! Complaints get published; kudos rarely do. But I have been impressed with how the customer service people have responded to most of these complaints.

        With the sums I may be receiving monthly after the launch I am doubly nervous about everyone! I'm sure everyone can understand that.

        All the best,

        Sydney
        I used to be a processor for a couple months for CC Bill. They are mostly used for pornography, and as a result have very high fees to make up for charge backs from consumers.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

          I used to be a processor for a couple months for CC Bill. They are mostly used for pornography, and as a result have very high fees to make up for charge backs from consumers.
          ALSO, merchant accounts require that you DECLARE that you sell porn, if you will, and so they charge a higher discount! Even with GOOD credit and NO chargebacks, costs are HIGHER!

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author tremayne
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            ALSO, merchant accounts require that you DECLARE that you sell porn, if you will, and so they charge a higher discount! Even with GOOD credit and NO chargebacks, costs are HIGHER!

            Steve
            I don't sell porn but I also don't want to be associated with a company that has anything to do with it. I'm not particularly prudish, but a legitimate business can get tainted that way and reputation is too valuable.

            They are deleted from my list. Thanks for the info.

            Sydney
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

          I used to be a processor for a couple months for CC Bill. They are mostly used for pornography, and as a result have very high fees to make up for charge backs from consumers.
          Thanks for this. I will cross them off my list.

          Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author gottahave
    When I have a launch due, I always advise Paypal first. Its just another pre-launch requirement.

    Neil
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by gottahave View Post

      When I have a launch due, I always advise Paypal first. Its just another pre-launch requirement.

      Neil
      As I said earlier, with the expected size of this launch PP would freeze my account in an instant.

      But far more than that, PP will not send money to a Panamanian bank. I have a bank in Canada as well, but PP insists on converting U.S dollars to Canadian - which then have to be converted into U.S. That round trip alone, not counting PP's fees, adds 11.5% in costs - very poor business from my perspective.

      Sorry, Neil, but PP is out!

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author HomeBizNizz
    epassporte, a paypal clone.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by HomeBizNizz View Post

      epassporte, a paypal clone.
      I'll check it, but I think it is less known than some of the others and that could affect sales volume.

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Murdaugh
    Paypal screwed me after 6 years of being a model customer... For absolutely no reason. I've used Google checkout and 2CO and like them both. GC has lower transaction fees, not sure about continuity though.

    -Scott
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Scott Murdaugh View Post

      Paypal screwed me after 6 years of being a model customer... For absolutely no reason. I've used Google checkout and 2CO and like them both. GC has lower transaction fees, not sure about continuity though.

      -Scott
      Hi Scott:

      I have been with PP about the same length of time. Sorry to hear of your experience. They have not screwed me yet, but I know they would moments after my launch.

      Google and 2CO are both on my list to check, and I am also curious about CC Bill. Within reason, cost is not a huge factor so long as I get what I pay for. PP, due to their curious rules about switching currencies, would cost me a total of about 14 whopping percent! That's 5.75% each way for the bank in Canada to switch U.S dollars back into U.S dollars after PP switches them into Canadian (!!!) so they can be sent to me here in Panama where the currency is the U.S dollar.

      PP clearly doesn't want my business so I will take it away as soon as I find somewhere safe and cooperative to send it. I still have six weeks or so before the launch.

      Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
        Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

        PP switches them into Canadian (!!!)
        Yep, that's the craziest thing.
        I am also in Canada and I have a USD account with my bank, besides my CAD account(s).

        I was trying for quite a while to convince PP to let me connect my USD account to my paypal... so that I can withdraw the funds in USD because I am paid anyway in US dollars and I could have deposited the money in my USD account.

        I was told they cannot do that. Never understood why not but that's how it works.

        Practically, PP put me in a situation that I am constantly praying that the Canadian dollar stays weak (compared to USD) - so that I get more money when my income is converted.
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

          Yep, that's the craziest thing.
          I am also in Canada and I have a USD account with my bank, besides my CAD account(s).

          I was trying for quite a while to convince PP to let me connect my USD account to my paypal... so that I can withdraw the funds in USD because I am paid anyway in US dollars and I could have deposited the money in my USD account.

          I was told they cannot do that. Never understood why not but that's how it works.
          Hi Istvan!

          I also have accounts in both currencies in Canada and went through the same performance as you. I have given up trying to understand PP and will move on to somewhere less inflexible. My situation is even more complicated because I now live in Panama where the currency *is* the U.S dollar - but PP refuses to deposit U.S $$ from my Panamanian PP account into my Panamanian bank. I can put money in but I can't withdraw it, only spend it.

          Why the h*** would I want to spend tens of thousands a month with PP? I have other ideas for the money (and they don't coincide with PP's). Anyone would think it was *their* money!

          Sydney

          Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    Google Checkout! The best alternative to PayPal.
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    • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
      Am also looking for a reliable alternative to paypal.

      Paypal has screwed me over several times too.

      Sydney, I'm gonna keep track of this thread. Thanks!

      Meanwhile, checking out Google Checkout.
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      • Profile picture of the author tremayne
        Originally Posted by JeffLam View Post

        Am also looking for a reliable alternative to paypal.

        Paypal has screwed me over several times too.

        Sydney, I'm gonna keep track of this thread. Thanks!

        Meanwhile, checking out Google Checkout.
        Let me know what you discover and I will do the same through this thread. Maybe we can all end up with the best alternative though geography may dictate different strokes for different folks.

        Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
    Just checked out Google Checkout.

    To be precise, if you are using it for a seller, you are using Google Checkout Merchant.

    The sad thing I notice immediately? It is available only for US and UK. No love for Asia I guess.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by JeffLam View Post

      Just checked out Google Checkout.

      To be precise, if you are using it for a seller, you are using Google Checkout Merchant.

      The sad thing I notice immediately? It is available only for US and UK. No love for Asia I guess.
      That's too bad, Jeff. Thanks for the heads up. One less for me to check.

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
    Check out fastspring.com I have been hearing good things about them, plus you will still be able to accept paypal.

    Best Regards,
    James Campbell
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    • Profile picture of the author LivingCovers
      Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

      Check out fastspring.com I have been hearing good things about them, plus you will still be able to accept paypal.

      Best Regards,
      James Campbell
      Fastspring.com is cool, however, Hmmm...!!! I see that the,

      reasonable pricing structure of either just 5.9% plus $.95 per transaction or a flat rate of 8.9% (minimum fee of $0.75 per transaction)

      is quite high. Almost 10%?
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      • Profile picture of the author tremayne
        Originally Posted by LivingCovers View Post

        Fastspring.com is cool, however, Hmmm...!!! I see that the,

        reasonable pricing structure of either just 5.9% plus $.95 per transaction or a flat rate of 8.9% (minimum fee of $0.75 per transaction)

        is quite high. Almost 10%?
        With fees so high they sound as if they work with a lot of porn sites. I'm not interested in that type of association, and you're right: the fees are way too high.

        Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Powers
    Have you ever thought about Moneybookers?Nowadays,it becomes more and more popular.Maybe you can check it out.Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Steve Powers View Post

      Have you ever thought about Moneybookers?Nowadays,it becomes more and more popular.Maybe you can check it out.Good luck.
      Thanks Steve. I'll take a look.

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author SamanthaHall
    I believe that alert pay is the best alternative to paypal but paypal is the best one than any other.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by SamanthaHall View Post

      I believe that alert pay is the best alternative to paypal but paypal is the best one than any other.
      Hi Samantha!

      I agree that PayPal is excellent for small amounts of business or, perhaps, if your business grows in a predictable way.

      But there's a good chance my launch will bring an unusual tidal wave of income and it's almost a foregone conclusion that PP would freeze the account. That would be a disaster for a continuity program that needs to pay affiliate commissions.

      Besides all that, the only way I could get U.S dolars eventually into my account in Panama using PP would cost me about 14% including two lots of bank fees on double currency exchange. Doesn't make business sense.

      I have been looking at AlertPay and they are quite interesting. They pay by check in U.S dollars. My bank here would take 30 days to clear the checks, but I think that is normal for many countries with regard to overseas checks. AP is a good possibility.

      A scam site scared me for a while but I was impressed by the responses given by the president and service people. They seemed reasonable while many of the accusers appeared to be hotheads.

      I need to find out what hoops, if any, AP puts customers through (do they need to have an AP account, for instance?) and what type of links go on the site. Also, after a somewhat scrambled startup are they readily accepted now by the market?

      All the best,

      Sydney
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  • Google checkout, is the way to go never had any problems, apart from when they recently stopped accepting debit cards (maestro) from the uk, now only credit cards
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit-smart
    Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

    Does anyone know of a reliable alternative to PayPal? I've had enough of their ridiculous internal policies. Help, advice, suggestions, comments will be appreciated.

    Sydney
    Im an advocate of Plimus.com

    They process paypal, moneybookers, etc for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author skyfire
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by skyfire View Post

      Alertpay,liberty reserve, routepay or money bookers are some of the options you have. Try them! i can't say they are reliable but they have less fees than paypal in some cases.
      Thanks for this. Reliability is far more important than fees. AlertPay is on my short list; the others are not although I will look into MoneyBookers.

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author milan
    I've been using Plimus.com .It's super easy to use and you can configure almost anything. They have many many features, they are super flexible. There are many ways you get your money out. You can set up an account within minutes which sounds great but is probably why their system is paranoid at times. A robot might call your customer over the phone to confirm if they really ordered your product. There are other certain little annoying things (like, they don't seem to fight charge back requests), but I've tried many payment companies over the years and Plimus is one of the best ones.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by milan View Post

      I've been using Plimus.com .It's super easy to use and you can configure almost anything. They have many many features, they are super flexible. There are many ways you get your money out. You can set up an account within minutes which sounds great but is probably why their system is paranoid at times. A robot might call your customer over the phone to confirm if they really ordered your product. There are other certain little annoying things (like, they don't seem to fight charge back requests), but I've tried many payment companies over the years and Plimus is one of the best ones.
      Hi Milan!

      Quirks bother me and I would hate for X number of customers to be bothered by robotic phone calls. The fact that they don't fight charge-backs is good, in mho; if someone wants their money back for any reason they should get it without a fuss. Even so, I think I have better alternatives to look at.

      Take care,

      Sydney

      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Liberty Reserve is a nightmare for customers to use. It's often the last resort of people who can't find any other way to do online business routinely because nobody else will do business with them, and I suspect too many people know that to make it much of a viable option: it makes people suspicious (and often rightly, I think).

      Moneybookers has a very strange notion of "customer service". It can take them 2 weeks to reply to an email.

      If you really can't use PayPal, I wish you well with AlertPay, whom I've always found very good, myself.
      Hello Alexa!

      Thanks for the comments on Liberty Reserve. Fortunately, they were never on my list.

      MoneyBookers was a maybe, but your comments about service rules them out.

      I like what I have seen so far about AlertPay and now that they are over their teething problems they are a strong possibility. For brand recognition, so is Amazon but I still have to look into their terms. I already use their s3 servers for product delivery.

      All the best,

      Sydney

      Originally Posted by dmarze View Post

      2CO is good alternative. People with paypal account can pay you for your products using their paypal account.


      D.Marze
      Does 2CO pay directly or is payment made via PayPal. If it is the latter, they are a non-starter for me as I have already explained earlier.

      Thanks,

      Sydney

      Originally Posted by mohamed.hammad View Post

      Hey Sydney,

      Since I am an Egyptian, I never had the opportunity to deal with PayPal as for no reason they don't permit Egyptians from signing up so I have one piece of advice for you: "Use 2Checkout"

      Simply the best also they provide you with immediate access to your money weekly through Payoneer Debt Card as they send you a Master Debt Card which they transfer your revenue weekly to it so you can use it online or withdraw it from any ATMs around the world so it rocks!

      Also it has wonderful and friendly customer support which I never had any problem dealing with :-)

      Wish you luck with your launch,
      Mohamed Hammad
      Thanks Mohamed!

      2CO is on my list to check as many people have recommended them. I'm not sure I want tens of thousands of dollars monthly going through a debit card though. Can you imagine the difficulty of withdrawing the maximum $500 daily that way through an ATM?!!

      Of those I have checked so far, I like the idea of AlertPay issuing checks in U.S dollars even though they will take 30 days to clear my bank in Panama.

      All the best,

      Sydney

      Originally Posted by rsantiago View Post

      Hello, Syd!

      Nice to meet you
      If you are doing launches, you have to worry about the REALLY BIG PAY DAY.

      Most of the merchants don't get launches. They just shut down the merchant account thinking it's a scam or something like that.

      But then there's powerpay.biz - which is recommended by Jeff Walker in the Product Launch Manager coaching program I'm going through.

      PowerPay staff is really comprehensive. They are all into IM business. So, when you plan your powerful launch day, you just communicate with them, send some information they need (not many stuff, actually), and then you can make your BIG JV launch with NO WORRIES.

      I sincerely hope it helps you big time - Google Checkout and Paypal are good, but not so suitable for serious IM ;-)

      Best,
      Rodrigo.
      Hello Rodrigo!

      Nice to meet you too!

      Yours is an interesting post. I had not heard of PowerPay but like most of us I have high regard for Jeff Walker.

      The company in the U.S managing the launch for me will likely be very familiar with them so I will certainly check them out. A company that understands what marketers need as well as what consumers need is a valuable commodity. Now I have to see if they work with my banking requirements.

      As you know, I fully agree with you about PayPal. And Google, I understand, only deals with marketers in the U.S and UK. That rules them out, too.

      All the best,

      Sydney

      Originally Posted by crecemedia View Post

      I think 10's of thousands of orders calls for a merchant account. ie. Process credit cards on your own server, directing them to you bank account.
      I *hope* it's tens of thousands of orders! But I actually said tens of thousands of *dollars*.

      Apart from that, I think you are right. Do you have a particular recommendation?

      The plan, given that nothing is guaranteed in this world until money is in the bank, is to do the launch with a payment processor to see how it goes and then to switch quickly to a merchant account. That will be far more efficient and less costly.

      As you know, CPA/continuity offers tend to start reasonably slowly and to build from there if they are any good.

      I appreciate your advice; I think we're on the same page.

      Sydney

      For the many who recommended Moneybookers, the following from their site is a bit unsettling for thousands of purchases:

      "The customers will need to instruct the transfer themselves on the Moneybookers system and you will need to process the transaction manually."

      It's also unclear to me whether MB is operating as a processor or offering merchant accounts - or both.

      Comments? Clarification?

      Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author milan
        Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

        Hi Milan!

        Quirks bother me and I would hate for X number of customers to be bothered by robotic phone calls. The fact that they don't fight charge-backs is good, in mho; if someone wants their money back for any reason they should get it without a fuss. Even so, I think I have better alternatives to look at.
        Hi Sydney,
        You've misunderstood me. They bother the first 3 customers with robotic calls, and then only the suspicious orders. For example, somebody from Nigeria buying with a US credit card etc. At times I don't agree with their definition of 'suspicious', but in general it's hardly wrong that have a protection system. Your customers can always dial their toll free number and tell there's nothing wrong with their order. Takes 10 seconds. I know, not exactly what 'ordering online' was meant to be, but they have a reason to raise their security shield.

        EVERY payment solution has good and bad sides.

        So far I've used:
        ShareIt.com - use them still, since 2004. Your customers can pay by Paypal, credit cards etc. etc.

        Paypal

        Plimus

        2checkout - Once I tried to email them it seemed their customer support are not human beings...

        Clickbank

        (I didn't consider Fastspring because their fees seem very high)

        I did talk about the bad sides of Plimus but I still did say you check Plimus as a possibility. I've done $26,000 in 24 hours with them. There was an auto message that they will hold the funds, but you could email them for manual investigation. After one email they understood the concept of email promotion and decided to keep only the funds to cover the typical refund rate. They also deal with your affiliate program for you.

        You can register an LLC in US, and get yourself a US Business Paypal
        and keep your funds in US $.

        Finally, it seems merchant account is the closest to "I keep my own money". That's my next step.
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by milan View Post

          You can register an LLC in US, and get yourself a US Business Paypal and keep your funds in US $.

          Finally, it seems merchant account is the closest to "I keep my own money". That's my next step.
          Hi Milan!

          First of all, let me thank you for me and for everyone else following this thread for the tremendous amount of information you have been supplying.

          I am interested today particularly in your comment about an LLC and a U.S business account with PayPal (not that I want to risk their almost-certain freeze on the expected 5 to 6 figures a month).

          But, regarding PayPal and because my questions may help others, will U.S PayPal not need a residential address, bank account and possibly credit card? I already have PayPal for Canada and for Panama but I have addresses in both countries, bank accounts in both and a credit card in one and so can answer all their sign-up questions.

          Next question: what is involved in a foreigner setting up a U.S LLC? A lawyer? Cost? Tax and sales tax implications when ownership is outside the U.S? One of the (many) purposes behind living among the palm trees in Panama (actually, I'm in the stunning mountain region near the Costa Rica border) is that I pay no tax on income generated outside this country.

          Finally, regarding merchant accounts: I fully agree. I suspect I will use a processor account for just the first week or two after launch and then switch to a merchant account. I should know in the initial days whether we will exceed 80 orders a month (I'm betting the previous five years of my life on it!). I understand 80 is the magic number for which route - processor account or merchant account - is the most cost effective.

          Processors, some at least, can be useful in giving affiliates assurance they will be paid but I will be working with some of the biggest CPA networks who look after that and much more.

          You know, this whole debate has been fascinating. I'm a writer, speaker and stock market specialist. This thread, which I have found extremely valuable, has taken me into a whole new world of business. I have never pretended to be anything other than what I am and I am surrounding myself with experts in other disciplines to make up for my shortcomings. But I *do* understand it is my job to look after at least three things: the money, delivering the best products I can, and ethics.

          Take care,

          Sydney
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          • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
            Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

            Finally, regarding merchant accounts: I fully agree. I suspect I will use a processor account for just the first week or two after launch and then switch to a merchant account. I should know in the initial days whether we will exceed 80 orders a month (I'm betting the previous five years of my life on it!). I understand 80 is the magic number for which route - processor account or merchant account - is the most cost effective.

            Processors, some at least, can be useful in giving affiliates assurance they will be paid but I will be working with some of the biggest CPA networks who look after that and much more.
            Hi Sydney,

            Pardon me but in the midst of all the suggestions, I am rather confused!

            Let me get things straight to a layman terms:

            1)
            We live in countries that are outside the US and UK

            2) We rather not use Paypal because of the potential Freezing of the account during the Big Pay Day during launch date

            3) We also rather not use Paypal because of the high transaction fees which occurs during transfer/wire of money from Paypal to Bank Acct OR because Paypal forces you to change currency in which you do not prefer resulting in currency changing costs

            Now for the questions..

            4) What is wrong with Alertpay?

            5) What is the difference between Processor and Merchant accounts?
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            • Profile picture of the author tremayne
              Originally Posted by JeffLam View Post

              Hi Sydney,

              Pardon me but in the midst of all the suggestions, I am rather confused!

              Let me get things straight to a layman terms:

              1)
              We live in countries that are outside the US and UK

              2) We rather not use Paypal because of the potential Freezing of the account during the Big Pay Day during launch date

              3) We also rather not use Paypal because of the high transaction fees which occurs during transfer/wire of money from Paypal to Bank Acct OR because Paypal forces you to change currency in which you do not prefer resulting in currency changing costs

              Now for the questions..

              4) What is wrong with Alertpay?

              5) What is the difference between Processor and Merchant accounts?
              Hello Jeff!

              Good summary!

              What's wrong with AlertPay? I don't know that anything is but their history has had a few bumps. The most recent, as far as I know, was a problem with their banking arrangements which resulted in payment being delayed to merchants and (probably because they were swamped with questions) slow service response.

              They were supposed to be offering debit cards that can be used at ATMs worldwide. I don't know if that has yet happened or is still in the works. I'm sure others will know, but that certainly is attractive.

              The other thought I had is that AlertPay is an unknown in comparison with PayPal as far as consumers are concerned and that could turn off some potential buyers.

              With so much on the line, I am super nervous...that's all. Many people on this thread have had good things to say about them and I believe their comments.

              What's the difference between a processor and a merchant account?

              PayPal and AlertPay among many others are processors. They process credit cards for us and, as a result, can influence our businesses in many ways (e.g. PayPal and some others freezing accounts). This, presumably, gives the consumer a measure of protection.

              A merchant account sets you up with a range of credit card companies and you receive immediate payment from those companies. In other words, they cut out the middle man. There is a fee to set up an account - from what I see, typically around $200 - and there is a monthly fee (again, with those I've looked at).

              I have read that after about 80 sales a month their total cost is less than that of processors.

              I know at least some of them have upper monthly limits (Wells Fargo is $20,000) but that can be overcome by using more than one merchant account and balancing between them. Please don't ask how that is done because I don't know; if I go that route I have a company that will look after this for me. (PM me and I'll give you the name of the company. This is just one of their services and is bundled with a slew of other services. They don't come cheap. I am not the only Warrior to use them.)

              I'm tipping my hand, but I am looking into this closely. I still have a lot to learn so I am not yet qualified enough to answer your question in depth. I hope to know more in a few days that may affect you, me and others not based in the U.S. Our situation relative to merchant accounts is by no means as easy as it is to sign up for PayPal, AlertPay or other processors.

              A strong advantage with a merchant account is that buyers have the option of using their favorite card directly, as they would in a physical store so it's something they are used to. There is no need for them to sign up with an intermediary as is necessary with most processors.

              Three I have discovered who accept business from non-U.S business owners are:

              Rey Pasinli, VP of Business Development
              Total-Apps eCommerce Engineering Experts

              (949) 274-8975 X108

              (949) 266-8260 Fax

              Merchant Accounts

              rey@total-apps.com



              Dan Ahearn
              Jettis Transaction Processing Solutions

              350 Jim Moran Blvd, Suite 101

              Deerfield Beach, FL 33442

              +1.954.379.1227 (main)

              +1.954.379.1201 (fax)

              (There are several complaints about this firm on the Internet so I have not contected them.)



              Brad Jess, Senior Account Representative

              Durango Merchant Services

              Direct - 505-564-2732

              Fax - 413-431-0005

              brad@durango-direct.com


              If we can be successful with our businesses (meaning more than 80 orders a month consistently) the merchant account certainly gives us full control and at a lower total cost than a processor account.

              Hey, if I sound like some sort of expert it's only because of what someone else in this thread said yesterday that sent me to the Internet to answer the very same question: what's the difference between a processor account and a merchant account?

              Hope this helps.

              Sydney
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            • Profile picture of the author milan
              Originally Posted by JeffLam View Post

              1) We live in countries that are outside the US and UK

              2) We rather not use Paypal because of the potential Freezing of the account during the Big Pay Day during launch date

              3) We also rather not use Paypal because of the high transaction fees which occurs during transfer/wire of money from Paypal to Bank Acct OR because Paypal forces you to change currency in which you do not prefer resulting in currency changing costs
              Your Paypal can get frozen either way. My problem with Paypal is that it takes an infinite amount of time for me to solve each such issue. It seems their support and business in US is much much stronger. Like, people serious about earning money get their own Paypal representatives they can cal directly etc. For me, it takes half a year to solve any issue with Paypal I have.

              When you have a US LLC you can behave like a US entity. You can use Google Checkout if you want and other benefits, but more importantly you get accepted with CPA networks where only US people get accepted. Don't know about your country, but you might pay less taxes this way as well.

              3) Don't know about your Paypal's but I think all international Paypal accounts allow you to add a US Bank account! I have one with an Italian Paypal and it works well: I can do a ACH transfer from Paypal to US account in USD. Just asked my cousin with the Polish Paypal: yes, you can add a US Bank Account there too! When you go to the menu to add a bank account you get two options: US, your country.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
            But then there's powerpay.biz - which is recommended by Jeff Walker in the Product Launch Manager coaching program I'm going through.
            The link is actually powpay.biz ... and to be clear, that is my affiliate link. But you need to follow that link to get to the application. If you just go to powerpay.biz, then you'll get an informational page, but you'll go round and round in circles and never get to the application.

            The benefits of using my link is your application goes straight to the VP of Risk Management - and he's a personal friend of mine who understands product launches and the Product Launch Formula. I have run millions of dollars of product launches through them without any issues.

            And trust me, I had MAJOR issues during launches with some of my prior merchant accounts. It really ain't fun to put together a killer launch, and then have your merchant account freeze your money.


            - Jeff
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            • Profile picture of the author tremayne
              Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

              The link is actually powpay.biz ... and to be clear, that is my affiliate link. But you need to follow that link to get to the application. If you just go to powerpay.biz, then you'll get an informational page, but you'll go round and round in circles and never get to the application.

              The benefits of using my link is your application goes straight to the VP of Risk Management - and he's a personal friend of mine who understands product launches and the Product Launch Formula. I have run millions of dollars of product launches through them without any issues.

              And trust me, I had MAJOR issues during launches with some of my prior merchant accounts. It really ain't fun to put together a killer launch, and then have your merchant account freeze your money.- Jeff
              Hello Jeff!

              Thank you for your response to this thread.

              I hope I didn't do the wrong thing but I wrote to the service department at PowerPlay with several questions. Maybe I should direct those questions elsewhere?

              Here is part of what I said:

              "I have a CPA/continuity launch managed by Product2Web coming in January. While it is impossible to say at this stage what revenue will be it is expected to be at least five figures a month. Many processors will balk at that amount and do strange things such as freezing accounts.

              So here are my questions (and you may not need any beyond the first one):

              * Do you deal with organizations outside the U.S? I am now a resident of Panama (the currency of which is the U.S dollar). If we get through that hurdle:
              * What will you need from me?
              * Is my account subject to freezing for any reason? (I am in the financial education industry. My current website - Lunch with Gaffer - Home - is being radically changed by P2W but you can see what type of material I offer.)
              * How is payment made to me?
              * Can payment be made to a Panamanian bank account? (There are no taxes here on foreign income.) Or do I have to have a U.S bank account?
              * I now do business as an individual; do I need to register an LLC?
              * Finally, I think, what are your fees?"


              I would be delighted to use your link and pay you back in a small way for some of the benefits I have had from you over the years. Good luck with your PLF 2.3+ launch!

              Sydney
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              • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
                No... of course you didn't do anything wrong. Normally I wouldn't come in and post an affiliate link here - the only reason I did so is that this is one of those cases where people will get better service if they use my link (I've got pretty high visibility with Powerpay.)

                However, it sounds like you've been able to get the help you need.

                Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that Powerpay is U.S. only.

                I know that merchant accounts can be a LOT harder to get outside the U.S.. I wish I had a good solution to the problem, but I don't know of any.

                - Jeff
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                • Profile picture of the author tremayne
                  Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

                  No... of course you didn't do anything wrong. Normally I wouldn't come in and post an affiliate link here - the only reason I did so is that this is one of those cases where people will get better service if they use my link (I've got pretty high visibility with Powerpay.)

                  However, it sounds like you've been able to get the help you need.

                  Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that Powerpay is U.S. only.

                  I know that merchant accounts can be a LOT harder to get outside the U.S.. I wish I had a good solution to the problem, but I don't know of any.

                  - Jeff
                  Thank you for this Jeff. It's too bad PowerPay is for the U.S alone. I mentioned three merchant accounts earlier in this thread that I am told accept foreign accounts and I am following up with two of them.

                  In addition, again because of help from this thread, it is quite possible I will establish a company in the U.S, U.S banking arrangements and a maildrop address. I already have a U.S phone number through Skype.

                  I just want sensible money acceptance and holding arrangements in U.S dollars some place that makes sense.

                  Take care,

                  Sydney
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              • Profile picture of the author Jeff Walker
                One more thing... there are a lot of varied opinions on Paypal, but I've been able to run HUGE sums of money through them on a launch day without any issues.

                My very first launch with them was a bit of an issue - I didn't have any record with them for processing payments, and it was a BIG chunk of money. They froze the money for a week or so before we got everything verified. That was a painful week, but understandable due to the lack of history.

                But since then I've done stuff like nearly a million in a day THROUGH PAYPAL ALONE and it didn't cause problems other than a phone call from them.

                That being said, I always always always like to have backup payment methods during a big launch.


                - Jeff
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                • Profile picture of the author tremayne
                  Originally Posted by Jeff Walker View Post

                  One more thing... there are a lot of varied opinions on Paypal, but I've been able to run HUGE sums of money through them on a launch day without any issues.

                  That being said, I always always always like to have backup payment methods during a big launch.- Jeff
                  Freezing my account is by no means the only issue I have with PayPal. If I use my Canadian account they insist on converting U.S dollars to Canadian even though I live in Panama where the currency is the U.S dollar.

                  Total banking commission two ways plus PP's fees runs to about 14%. That seems insane from a business point of view.

                  Had PP agreed to send U.S dollars to my U.S dollar bank account in Canada I might have been able to work with them for a while by calling them ahead of launch day to give them a heads-up to possibly avoid a freeze. But it's not worth it at 14%.

                  I opened a PP account for Panama only to later find out they will not send money here in *any* currency! I could *spend* the money through PP, but in appreciable sums that's quite ludicrous. Gee, I could buy every high-priced seminar and still...well, you see what I mean!

                  But with the help of many people here I'm working through the issue. When the holiday weekend is over, I will be able to contact my marketing advisers in the U.S and hear what they have to say.

                  Gee, it seems as if someone could take the content in this thread, do a bit more research, and produce a profitable ebook.

                  All the best,

                  Sydney
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          • Profile picture of the author milan
            Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

            Hi Milan!

            First of all, let me thank you for me and for everyone else following this thread for the tremendous amount of information you have been supplying.

            I am interested today particularly in your comment about an LLC and a U.S business account with PayPal (not that I want to risk their almost-certain freeze on the expected 5 to 6 figures a month).

            But, regarding PayPal and because my questions may help others, will U.S PayPal not need a residential address, bank account and possibly credit card? I already have PayPal for Canada and for Panama but I have addresses in both countries, bank accounts in both and a credit card in one and so can answer all their sign-up questions.

            Next question: what is involved in a foreigner setting up a U.S LLC? A lawyer? Cost? Tax and sales tax implications when ownership is outside the U.S? One of the (many) purposes behind living among the palm trees in Panama (actually, I'm in the stunning mountain region near the Costa Rica border) is that I pay no tax on income generated outside this country.

            Finally, regarding merchant accounts: I fully agree. I suspect I will use a processor account for just the first week or two after launch and then switch to a merchant account. I should know in the initial days whether we will exceed 80 orders a month (I'm betting the previous five years of my life on it!). I understand 80 is the magic number for which route - processor account or merchant account - is the most cost effective.

            Processors, some at least, can be useful in giving affiliates assurance they will be paid but I will be working with some of the biggest CPA networks who look after that and much more.

            You know, this whole debate has been fascinating. I'm a writer, speaker and stock market specialist. This thread, which I have found extremely valuable, has taken me into a whole new world of business. I have never pretended to be anything other than what I am and I am surrounding myself with experts in other disciplines to make up for my shortcomings. But I *do* understand it is my job to look after at least three things: the money, delivering the best products I can, and ethics.

            Take care,

            Sydney
            Sydney, I'm not anything close to the expert in the field. I'll answer your questions about forming an LLC to the best of my knowledge. I've done a lot of research online, bought several ebooks and a book by a US attorney about it, but I'm writing this from memory:

            In general, you could get everything done without traveling to US, and with not much expense (let's estimate not more than $500 per year). No, you don't need a lawyer. You could do it much cheaper, read on and I'll explain what my estimate includes.

            As a foreigner you can form any type of corporation, something else might be appropriate for you but LLC is much more simple than Inc and it's income is not taxable. For a one-two person company - LLC is probably always the better way to go in a state like Delaware.

            Delaware is one of the states which attracts a lot IT companies and internet businesses. They attract by their laws, super easy registration procedures, tax issues etc. They also have all the forms online and technically you could do everything online. Delaware State Filing Fee for a new company is $90. You can pay by a credit card.

            But before I get into details, there are two ways you can do this in general:
            - Find a company which specializes in this and let them do everything for you. My general impression is that this is the way to go to save time and money. Those companies have very affordable packages, starting from $0. Yes, they can fill, check and file the documents for you just by charging you the state fee, and later offering you some of their other related services on their backend. If you want me to show you the company that my friend used without any problems, PM me.
            - Do it yourself. Well, if you don't live in US that might sound a bit scary. It definitely isn't, but like I said, I believe the first option will definitely save time and money.

            So, now you have a company for $90, but if you need EIN a company would charge you $150 (you could do it yourself for much less or free). EIN is the equivalent of the SSN-Social Security Number, for a company. The bank will ask you for that.

            A bank would most probably like you to have a US address and phone number. It's perfectly legal if you use a mail forwarding service, and a Skype-In number. There are many mail forwarding services, and the address you get doesn't have to be a PO Box. Let's say adds about $300 per year to your costs. By the way, the companies which file your papers also recommend their own mail forwarding services. Also, the forwarding address is what you need for the Paypal account.

            Getting a bank account: Banks prefer if you do that in person. You might do it over the phone, your chances are better if you: speak English fluently, tell that you know what is the Patriotic Act (since Sep-11, they just don't let anybody open an account easily) and when you show them respect in general Try with the Bank of America. The second option: Go to a local bank which also operates in US. Ask them to help you open an account in their US bank. This way you are doing it in person and they don't have to deal with the same risks as people opening an account by phone. For example, HSBC Bank operates in Panama (Panama ) and US.

            Edit:
            Forgot about the taxes. Delaware attracts a lot of companies because of their tax laws, they are very flexible. I guess it's better if you search the internet for the whole info. If I'm not mistaken, you don't pay anything for the first year. Income that you get outside of the country is not taxable....
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  • Profile picture of the author dmarze
    2CO is good alternative. People with paypal account can pay you for your products using their paypal account.


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  • Profile picture of the author crecemedia
    I think 10's of thousands of orders calls for a merchant account. ie. Process credit cards on your own server, directing them to you bank account.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yoshi1
    It's too bad that Google checkout is only available in the US and Uk. Does anyone know when it will be available in Europe? I would like to have an alternative for PayPal as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
      No problem Syd.

      Currently I am checking out powerpay.biz.

      I have high regards for Jeff Walker, and if he recommends powerpay.biz for the Big Pay Days, then definitely it can't go wrong.

      I'm sure Jeff Walker's paydays are really huge.

      Will feedback on powerpay.biz.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Yoshi1 View Post

      It's too bad that Google checkout is only available in the US and Uk. Does anyone know when it will be available in Europe? I would like to have an alternative for PayPal as well.
      Hi Yoshi!

      Have you checked to see if Amazon Payments is available in the Netherlands? That, like Google, is another big and recognized name.

      One I am coming to like more and more is AlertPay, recommended by many in this thread. They seem to have had a somewhat rocky beginning but that is well past them. They pay by check in U.S dollars anywhere in the world.

      Good luck!

      Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author tboneman
        Hey Syd,

        FWIW, I've been an AlertPay user for about 3 years. It's now a solid company, but I think their fees are on the high side. You'll want to check that out.

        Best for your launch.

        Wes
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by tboneman View Post

          Hey Syd,

          FWIW, I've been an AlertPay user for about 3 years. It's now a solid company, but I think their fees are on the high side. You'll want to check that out.

          Best for your launch.

          Wes
          Thanks Tboneman!

          Total cost would be a lot less than 14% - as it would be with PayPal via Canada and on to here. One of my concerns, given that they are quite new, is how would they be with handling tens of thousands of dollars a month?

          Following Jeff Walker's advice, maybe AP could be one of several processors/merchants to use.

          Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author cybergod
        I use MoneyBookers and AlertPay also, thing is that it is not as popular as PP is.
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by cybergod View Post

          I use MoneyBookers and AlertPay also, thing is that it is not as popular as PP is.
          I have used neither but my feeling is that the more hoops you put potential customers through, like signing up for services to which they don't already belong, the more dropped sales there will be.

          I think many services are fine if sales are a few hundred, or maybe a few thousand, dollars a month. As I see it, though, a merchant account seems to be the answer for large volume unless you already have a very big name in the industry. I also believe the large CPA and affiliate networks demand a merchant account.

          We grumble about PayPal because of their suspension of accounts but for most of us their service works well. When they see unusual activity can we really blame them for protecting themselves and their buyers - who far outnumber suppliers?

          All the best,

          Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
    Ah, scrap that. Looks like powerpay is also only for the US. I am unable to contact them with my choice of country.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by JeffLam View Post

      Ah, scrap that. Looks like powerpay is also only for the US. I am unable to contact them with my choice of country.
      Hi Jeff!

      Because of Jeff Walker, they are still on my short list...but if they won't deal with people from Singapore they almost certainly will not deal with people in Panama and that would eliminate them for me too. I have sent their service people an email and will let everyone know the result of that.

      Depending on how Milan (above) answers my questions and whether your business in large enough, you might consider a U.S LLC (limited liability company) which would presumably provide a U.S address even if only a mail forwarder. Then you would not be restricted by geography as I currently am.

      My short list is getting smaller all the time. Frankly, processors scare the sh*t out of me! PalPal and others are fine for small amounts but I don't want an intermediary to control my business, as all of them can.

      AlertPay has been high on my list but I am concerned by the apparent teething pains it still has four years after its launch.

      I think I'm down to Jeff's recommendation and Amazon (since Google is no good for me). Maybe the other two aren't either, in which case my decision will be made for me.

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author tremayne
    Originally Posted by ishansoni View Post

    I personally like AlertPay alot. Their customer support team is professional, along with them being cool with internet marketers...

    Ishan
    Hello Ishan!

    They are on my short list! Thank you! Lots of people seem to like them.

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  • Profile picture of the author bigmoney10
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by bigmoney10 View Post

      Thanks! This was really insightful.
      Hi Bigmoney!

      What started with a simple question certainly has been insightful for me - and I hope it has been for many others.

      There's still more to come as I continue my investigation. I have a reasonable idea now of where I'm headed, thanks in large part to so many on this forum, but I want to tie up a few loose ends before I comment on that. If I comment too early in the process it risks a change that would confuse everyone else.

      By the time I finish I expect to have all the ducks in a row - at least for me but not necessarily for anyone else. Most people are not in my situation: in a country to which at least some processors will not send money. I and others like me have more hoops to jump through than people living in the U.S and in a few other countries.

      The other difference for many is the amount of monthly income this project is expected to bring. (Whether it really will has to wait for a nail-biting period until January and until the money is in the bank! Counting chickens is for people who keep chickens!)

      I have dealt with small amounts of money so far in the almost five years I have worked on this project (don't you just love these "instant successes"?) and PayPal has been fine for that. That was before I had to be too worried about taxes, exchange rates and account freezings.

      Personally, I think that for small amounts PayPal may be the best choice; it is widely used and some of the lesser-known processors may not attract as many sales. But that's another story. For me, the way they want to handle money makes them w-a-a-a-y too expensive (14% given a double currency exchange) and too risky.

      By the way, Amazon has bitten the dust as far as I am concerned. Too complicated for customers who do not already have Amazon accounts and too restrictive for merchants in terms of how much money can be processed until certain hoops (though straightforward) have been jumped through. If I remember correctly, their initial limit is $10,000. I dare not risk a number that low. I never did get as far as checking whether they would do business with me in Panama.

      The initial CPA should bring in multiple times that much, if predictions by the marketing people are correct, although they will initially settle back from that figure when the continuity part of the program begins at a considerably lower price in the second month.

      You may have a clue from all this of the direction in which I am leaning, but I need to talk to lots of people in the U.S before I can be sure and before I know what obstacles there are.

      I'll keep you posted. Have patience!

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  • Profile picture of the author tremayne
    Confirmation regarding PowerPay:

    I received this message this morning:

    "Unfortunately, we are licensed to operate within the US only. You would need to be a US citizen and US business address and US bank account."

    U.S citizenship - if that part is true (the writer may have meant "resident") - rules out PowerPay but for some overseas heavy hitters it would not be difficult to set up a U.S business address (an LLC for $90 and a mail forwarding address is enough to then get a U.S bank account. This would then open up a wide range of possibilities not otherwise available to many of us.

    For instance: the full range of merchant accounts and business banking.

    The next question, of course, is what are the tax implications. I assume (but I'd like to hear from someone who really knows) that we would then be subject to U.S taxes even if, like me, we live in countries where we otherwise would not pay tax.

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    • Profile picture of the author milan
      Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

      The next question, of course, is what are the tax implications. I assume (but I'd like to hear from someone who really knows) that we would then be subject to U.S taxes even if, like me, we live in countries where we otherwise would not pay tax.

      Sydney, the income that the Delaware LLC makes is not taxable, I'm sure about that. (that's a big difference between LLC and INC) That's what the lawyer says (in a book).

      So, in your case you don't pay taxes: Your US LLC transfers the money to your company in Panama. Of course, you need to get an opinion of somebody who "really knows"
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      • Profile picture of the author tremayne
        Originally Posted by milan View Post

        Sydney, the income that the Delaware LLC makes is not taxable, I'm sure about that. (that's a big difference between LLC and INC) That's what the lawyer says (in a book).

        So, in your case you don't pay taxes: Your US LLC transfers the money to your company in Panama. Of course, you need to get an opinion of somebody who "really knows"
        Milan!

        Sounds like you really know what you're talking about! Big thanks!

        Sydney
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        • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
          Thanks Sydney for your answers to my queries!

          I understand so much better now.

          To Jeff (Walker), it is too bad that powerpay is onyl available in the US.

          To Milan, though I can see the advantages in having a LLC in US (great explanation btw!) I am hesitant to do one due to personal reasons.

          I guess I shall be sticking with Paypal, since even Jeff (Walker) has had no issues with them (after having a track record, I believe).

          Perhaps a phone call to them or an email to them to inform them of the Big Pay Day will do the trick..

          Anyone had similar experiences with Paypal? What did you do to handle it?
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          • Profile picture of the author tremayne
            Originally Posted by JeffLam View Post

            Thanks Sydney for your answers to my queries!

            I understand so much better now.

            To Jeff (Walker), it is too bad that powerpay is onyl available in the US.

            To Milan, though I can see the advantages in having a LLC in US (great explanation btw!) I am hesitant to do one due to personal reasons.

            I guess I shall be sticking with Paypal, since even Jeff (Walker) has had no issues with them (after having a track record, I believe).

            Perhaps a phone call to them or an email to them to inform them of the Big Pay Day will do the trick..

            Anyone had similar experiences with Paypal? What did you do to handle it?
            Hi Jeff!

            You have been a big help yourself in spurring me on!

            I think a phone call ahead of time to PayPal is essential if you plan to use them for a big launch. I think their problem is when they get a sudden and radical increase in the amount of money coming in to them. It is understandable; they have to protect against possible fraud.

            I have used PP for a number of years and have never had any problems with them...but I have not put through large amounts of business either. My major problem with them is that they will not transfer money directly to Panama. I don't think you have a similar problem in Singapore.

            If I had been going to continue with them I too would have made sure they knew a big payday was coming. I understand they give you a personal agent to speak with if you do considerable business with them.

            Good luck with whatever it is you do Jeff!

            I expect to update this post in a few days. I have almost got the ducks in a row but I am sure there will be a few potholes along the way! If there is interest, I will keep everyone updated as I move along in the hopes that my experiences and possible mistakes will help others.

            All the best,

            Sydney
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            • Profile picture of the author JeffLam
              No Sydney, you have been a greater help in starting this thread as these are the finer details of business that we may have missed out!

              And yet these are ultimately the last thing we want when we do business - freezing of funds.

              Also, I have learnt a considerable amount to fully understand my position and what I am suppose to do for my business now in terms of accounts.

              Thank you for the knowledge!

              PS: Is LunchWithGaffer all about teaching you how to invest in the stock market? (and bonds, futures, options, etc)
              I'm interested in that kinda stuff.
              Had dreams to be a financial/private banker. The economic crisis made me think about it again. Am still matriculating into business school come 2010 though. Hence I am interested in all aspects of finance!
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              • Profile picture of the author tremayne
                Originally Posted by JeffLam View Post

                No Sydney, you have been a greater help in starting this thread as these are the finer details of business that we may have missed out!

                And yet these are ultimately the last thing we want when we do business - freezing of funds.

                Also, I have learnt a considerable amount to fully understand my position and what I am suppose to do for my business now in terms of accounts.

                Thank you for the knowledge!

                PS: Is LunchWithGaffer all about teaching you how to invest in the stock market? (and bonds, futures, options, etc)
                I'm interested in that kinda stuff.
                Had dreams to be a financial/private banker. The economic crisis made me think about it again. Am still matriculating into business school come 2010 though. Hence I am interested in all aspects of finance!
                Hi Jeff:

                I am very glad the thread has been helpful and I hope it has been for many others too. I started it simply because I wanted some answers and I certainly got them in the last four days. I have continued it in the hopes my decision and journey may help others. Surely that's what this forum is about: seeking help and also helping others.

                My decision has been made (today) but before I share it and the journey from this point I want to be sure I can navigate all the obstacles from here. I will know in a day or so, thanks in great part to another member of this forum.

                Of course, we are all different and with different needs; what suits one person will not necessarily suit another. For one thing, we don't all live in strange countries like Panama! But I think enough has been shared already by all the contributors to help most IMers.

                You asked about Lunch with Gaffer. It is being relaunched and greatly expanded as The Gaffer Wealth System. Yes, it is about stocks, bonds and mutual funds but not options, futures or any of the more speculative things. As near as anyone can do this, the system virtually guarantees that a follower in their 20s to mid-30s will be a millionaire when they retire -- all on about one hour per year! That is no exaggeration.

                Have a look at the site (as it now is) and then have a look at Sydney Tremayne - Gaffers-portfolio for proof the system works. If you like what you see, PM me and I will give you access the what currently exists. I must warn you: it is a massive multimedia package! It will take 90 minutes to download.

                You may find it too simple, but that was the point. With the book as the starting point (you'll see where the name Gaffer comes from), it was written for absolute beginners who don't even like reading anything about stocks. It meant finding a totally different teaching method and then pounding into heads so it become a part of their normal thinking.

                You may not like it from the point of view that it teaches how to completely do without stock brokers (I used to be a successful one) and even without discount brokers. I don't know if that can be done in Singapore.

                The brokerage industry is very tough on newcomers to it. Very tough! The companies are greedy and newcomers with shiny new MBAs come and go faster than water from a leaky bucket! The business in not so much about making money for clients as it is about gathering assets and earning commissions for the firm and incidentally for yourself.

                Yes, it's exciting and you can do a lot of good for clients but you have to be very good to last. See what you can do to do more for your clients than your colleagues. You may not be popular with them but you may be successful and have a very good career as I did. Don't give up your dreams if this is what you want to do.

                Good luck!

                Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author sarah_may
    Well, if you looking for alternative of paypal then you must try google checkout offered by Google.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by sarah_may View Post

      Well, if you looking for alternative of paypal then you must try google checkout offered by Google.
      Sorry Sarah! Only available in the U.S and UK. But Google has a trusted name and so as long as there are no major quirks should be good for many IMers.

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author jaiganeshv.com
    I'm getting aware that I should not trust PayPal alone. Should have an alternate like Google Checkout.

    Thank you
    Jai
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by jaiganeshv.com View Post

      I'm getting aware that I should not trust PayPal alone. Should have an alternate like Google Checkout.

      Thank you
      Jai
      I think this is especially true if you are doing a major (or even medium) launch. Having all your eggs in one basket risks grief.

      Sydney
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Geekybizness View Post

      Have u tried Webmoney?
      I have not but others may be interested in knowing what you like about it and whether there is a risk of accounts being frozen if there is a sudden influx of heavy business volume.

      All the best,

      Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author tremayne
        Hi Milan!

        Just want to let you know I sent you a PM yesterday.

        Sydney
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        • Profile picture of the author madscots
          Sydney, and others interested about US LLC's,

          Contact a lawyer or firm that specializes in this area, there have been a large number of changes as states are starting to crack down on foreign corporations (an LLC owned by an out of state person is considered a foreign corp). Specifically the requirements regarding in state agents is being tightened up all over.

          With the revenue problems most states are having, they (the states) are looking for multiple ways to fill the coffers. Going after non-compliant corporations is one. so make sure that you check a specialist in this field, and make sure that they are reputable (do your due diligence).

          Hope this helps,

          JR
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          • Profile picture of the author tremayne
            Originally Posted by madscots View Post

            Sydney, and others interested about US LLC's,

            Contact a lawyer or firm that specializes in this area, there have been a large number of changes as states are starting to crack down on foreign corporations (an LLC owned by an out of state person is considered a foreign corp). Specifically the requirements regarding in state agents is being tightened up all over.

            With the revenue problems most states are having, they (the states) are looking for multiple ways to fill the coffers. Going after non-compliant corporations is one. so make sure that you check a specialist in this field, and make sure that they are reputable (do your due diligence).

            Hope this helps,

            JR
            Hello JR:

            I think that's good advice. The "locals" know what's going on it their State.

            Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author milan
    Thanks for the heads up JR.
    With Delaware, the info is online on: Delaware Division of Corporations
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  • Profile picture of the author tremayne
    Hello everyone!

    Sorry to have taken so long to report back on my research. Much of the delay has been because of the time is has taken to hear back from suppliers of one sort or another.

    As I have mentioned before, my launch is a CPA/continuity offer. Speaking with a merchant account provider, I learned that CPA networks typically require us (you and me) to tell them how many sales we want and then to pay them 50% up-front in an escrow account. In my case, that would have required payment of roughly $75,000 up front. Totally impossible! For a while I had visions of almost five years' work coming to a grinding and pointless halt.

    I had a long chat today with my marketing people (they are well connected with the affiliate networks) and they tell me there are other options which I will investigate and report back about when I have something worthwhile to say. But I am not working alone and it may take a while.

    I have also been in touch with a merchant provider but that relationship is young and I am not yet comfortable with the source so I will hold off commenting on that, too.

    After all the discussions here and with others, the route I expect to go, depending on the affiliate network used, is:

    * Delaware LLC because I am not a U.S resident but the company would be. For foreign residents like me, there is no federal or state tax on a Delaware LLC because all income is able to pass through to the owner(s). In my case, Panama does not charge tax on foreign income.
    * Merchant account. This means I have full control of money received and the account cannot be frozen or messed with in any way. The arrangement is between me and the card companies. One difficulty: It is essential you have a business of some form. For me, that will be a Delaware LLC. It will cost me about $450 as a non-resident of the U.S. A U.S resident will pay more than $100 less. There are services that charge a lot less ($65 plus fees for one) but be careful to check out whether they include everything. Wishing to use credit cards directly rules out things like ClickBank (in case you were wondering!).
    * Ultimately I want to go with several CPA networks - but that may be champagne on a beer budget! For now, I will be investigating Pepperjam, Linkshare and Commission Junction.

    It would be nice if that's the end of the journey! I'll keep you posted. I just hope this is helpful to you in some way.

    All the best,

    Sydney
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      An important update for non-U.S followers of this thread

      I learned something crucial in the past 48 hours: Even if you live in a country where foreign income in tax-free, as I do, a Delaware (or any other) LLC will not allow you to avoid tax if you do business in the U.S. Income derived in the U.S will be taxed in the U.S; registering an LLC would just lock you into paying U.S tax.

      I'm guessing 80% of my income will come from the U.S so, for me, step 1 is to forget about a U.S LLC!

      My merchant account provider has offered to help me to set up a European corporation but, with the slim knowledge I have at this moment, I see no sense in that. I assume I will do some business in Europe and I don't want to pay tax there either.

      I am looking into setting up a corporation in Panama. All foreign income is tax-free here. But, something else I have learned recently, the merchant accounts must be in the same country as the corporation, meaning that as I now see it everything - banking, credit cards, all the money stuff - must be here.

      Fortunately, Panama is a stable democracy that uses the U.S dollar and has for more than 100 years.

      Can anyone set up a Panamanian corporation? Yes! Is it worth it to you? I can't answer that; only you can - but do careful research first. Make sure you don't break any laws.

      I don't yet know all the hoops I have to climb through but I'll keep you posted!

      Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author RedpoleQ
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by RedpoleQ View Post

          I've also been following this thread very closely. I've had so many problems with paypal as many times paypal won't accept their credit card payments.

          I think it may be because most of my clients live in Asia but have credit cards issued in Europe or North America.

          I've been looking for alternate solutions, but since I mostly sell consulting services, many payment processors that I've looked at won't allow me to use their services(including 2CO, SWReg, CCNow, to name a few).

          Thanks for all the good information you all have contributed to this thread. I will investigate AlertPay, but at this point, I was thinking to establish a corporation in Hong Kong so I could get a merchant account.

          I'll report back with any positive/negative experiences I have.
          Thanks, RedpoleQ, for joining in what has become a pretty thorough research project into how we can do safe and reliable business on the Internet and get securely paid for it.

          One word of caution with your own plans: The corporation and the merchant account must be in the same country. (I discovered this within the past week.) I am sure Hong Kong has excellent merchant accounts; just make sure there is one there with which you want to do business.

          We will look forward to learning of your progress and to learning from you.

          All the best,

          Sydney
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          • Profile picture of the author Cynthia Mosher
            This thread has been very enlightening. Thanks to everyone for the valuable information.

            My husband is Saudi and he is looking for a way to process payments for his upcoming launch. We had planned to do it through my Paypal account but that would rack up dollars that I would have to account for (I am a US citizen living abroad, filing taxes every year on my own). Setting up his own business in Saudi and processing payments through his bank's merchant services seems to be the best approach to avoid the tax issues. Is that correct? That is doable but my concern for him would be that having a Saudi-based business could be a big deterrent to potential customers, all things considered. So I'm wondering where the company base location might be displayed to customers and if we could simply give our US address that I use for my business. Is that doable? Any problem there?
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            • Profile picture of the author tremayne
              Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

              This thread has been very enlightening. Thanks to everyone for the valuable information.

              My husband is Saudi and he is looking for a way to process payments for his upcoming launch. We had planned to do it through my Paypal account but that would rack up dollars that I would have to account for (I am a US citizen living abroad, filing taxes every year on my own). Setting up his own business in Saudi and processing payments through his bank's merchant services seems to be the best approach to avoid the tax issues. Is that correct? That is doable but my concern for him would be that having a Saudi-based business could be a big deterrent to potential customers, all things considered. So I'm wondering where the company base location might be displayed to customers and if we could simply give our US address that I use for my business. Is that doable? Any problem there?
              Cynthia:

              Maybe I am naive but surely anyone not wishing to do business with someone because of the country in which they live is a bigot and not worth doing business with anyway!

              But if it is a concern and your husband at least visits the U.S address from time to time I see nothing wrong with using the U.S address on his site. I have a Canadian credit card so for some things I use my Canadian address.

              Having said that, I think it is important that you consult a U.S tax expert. The last thing you want is for the IRS to point to the address used on the site and say, "Ah, you claim a U.S address so we want our pound of flesh!"

              None of your customers will know what country their credit cards are being processed through. Using a merchant account, all they see is the credit card logo with which they are quite familiar.

              Talk with a U.S tax specialist. I doubt if any of us are qualified to give you the answer you need.

              Now the question is whether you will be allowed by the merchant account to use a different address on the website. Merchant accounts require residence in the country in which the merchant account is established. You have that...but will they allow a different address on your site? Talk to them face to face if you can, or at least on the phone.

              All the best,

              Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author milan
        Originally Posted by tremayne View Post

        I'm guessing 80% of my income will come from the U.S so, for me, step 1 is to forget about a U.S LLC!
        Sydney, I think you're wrong.

        Let's imagine this situation:
        You form a company (LLC, whatever) in US and make the company a payment&order processing company. Something like your own Paypal or Plimus. You set the fee to something like %0.3, something low, but something that you know will cover the operations of that company.

        And you simply let that company process the payments and orders for your Panamian company.

        What's wrong with that model? Most of the money gets passed to your Panamian company without any taxes. For that little piece of money which gets taxed in the US: well, who cares how it gets taxed since it's a very little piece...
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        • Profile picture of the author Cynthia Mosher
          Originally Posted by milan View Post

          Sydney, I think you're wrong.

          Let's imagine this situation:
          You form a company (LLC, whatever) in US and make the company a payment&order processing company. Something like your own Paypal or Plimus. You set the fee to something like %0.3, something low, but something that you know will cover the operations of that company.

          And you simply let that company process the payments and orders for your Panamian company.

          What's wrong with that model? Most of the money gets passed to your Panamian company without any taxes. For that little piece of money which gets taxed in the US: well, who cares how it gets taxed since it's a very little piece...
          What would be the benefit of that sort of setup over a merchant account that accepts international accounts and makes direct deposits to your non-US bank?
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          • Profile picture of the author milan
            Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

            What would be the benefit of that sort of setup over a merchant account that accepts international accounts and makes direct deposits to your non-US bank?
            Cynthia, it depends on the country, but for most countries your merchant account would be in local currency, not in US dollars. There are many other benefits of having a US "front end": it's easy to accept ACH (like Clickbank) payments to a US account (you could open a US bank as a foreign person though, but it's easier as a company), you can have a US business Paypal account and connect it to a US bank account (Paypal is not available in a lot of countries), it's much easier to get accepted to certain affiliate and other networks (actually, many offers are available to US affiliates only!). Paypal support is much better in US than in some other countries. I'm not speaking only about features, but the actual technical support by phone and email. It takes me months to solve my Paypal problems.
            Depending on your country, people from US might have second thoughts about buying from you. It's not the same if you're from a country where cyber fraud is big (like Russia, China) or from US. Having a US front end helps in such cases.
            I'm writing this from the top of my head, I must've forgotten to include something important...
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            • Profile picture of the author milan
              Sydney,
              I'm looking forward to hear your experience with having a Panamian company. Please keep in touch. Is it possible to do all that without traveling?

              Only you know if you get the benefits of registering a company in US as well. I know I would, every time I have an issue with Paypal it takes months. In fact, just couple days ago they limited my Paypal again (5-6 years old account), and I know it will take months before I have it back again. That doesn't happen to US accounts, only to scammers and people selling controversial stuff.

              You've misunderstood me about US taxation. The income that your US company makes, and the income that YOU make from that company are two completely different things. The first mentioned income can be made tax free, depending on the set up and your intentions with the money. For example, you can buy real estate in US in the name of the company and that money never gets 'income taxed' because you don't get it on your own name.
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              • Profile picture of the author tremayne
                Originally Posted by milan View Post

                Sydney,
                I'm looking forward to hear your experience with having a Panamian company. Please keep in touch. Is it possible to do all that without traveling?
                Hi Milan!

                As some old marketing used to say, you can do it from your kitchen in your underwear - if that's what turns you on!

                Setting up in Panama is as easy for you as it is for me. You will need to appoint a nominee if you want someone to set up a Panamanian bank account (because that person needs to appear in person). Unless, of course, you want to come to visit me and do it yourself!!!

                I can do that in person. But before going ahead with it (if you do) please wait until I have sorted out what bank you need to set up a merchant account here. (That account must be in the country in which your corporation is set up.)

                I should know in a few days when my lawyer is back in the office if I can undercut that $850 price. If I can, I'll let you know privately.

                And I'll let everyone know about merchant accounts and so forth.

                Panama uses the U.S dollar, which makes it simple for me and no more difficult for those in other countries. You, for instance, would still have to exchange U.S dollars to your own currency if you wanted your cash in your hot little hands. You may not want to spend it in the U.S - but you could.

                All the best,

                Sydney
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by milan View Post

          Sydney, I think you're wrong.

          Let's imagine this situation:
          You form a company (LLC, whatever) in US and make the company a payment&order processing company. Something like your own Paypal or Plimus. You set the fee to something like %0.3, something low, but something that you know will cover the operations of that company.

          And you simply let that company process the payments and orders for your Panamian company.

          What's wrong with that model? Most of the money gets passed to your Panamian company without any taxes. For that little piece of money which gets taxed in the US: well, who cares how it gets taxed since it's a very little piece...
          Milan's post is a continuation of discussions via PM in which I advised him that U.S income would be taxed to a foreign holder of an LLC. There is plenty of evidence of this on the Internet.

          Hi Milan!

          Good to hear from you again.

          I know you have been researching LLCs for some time but I urge you to look at the small print and/or get expert advice about U.S taxes on profits made in the U.S. They will get taxed by the IRS.

          Your suggestion about using an LLC as a sort of middleman between it and another company might work...but why? Why set up two companies when you can do the same thing with one?

          I'm going to talk about something I have discovered in Panama that will work for anyone anywhere in the world!

          I recently discovered something called a sociedad anónima (Anonymous Society). For full details in fractured English, see GRUPOGESTIONES.COM. Here are the highlights:

          * An Anonymous Society (SA) can be set up from anywhere in the world
          * Income from anywhere other than Panama is tax-free
          * Setting one up takes about 10 days and costs +/- $850 (don't pay more)
          * Setting up a Panamanian bank account with an SA is easy
          * There are merchant accounts in Panama (speak with Rey Pasilini at rey@total-apps.com
          * The SA beneficial owner's name does not appear on any official records
          * Panama has some of the strictest banking secrecy laws in the world with fines in the millions and imprisonment for any bank divulging information other than in regards to money laundering

          As you can see, Milan, there is no need for a two-step process. As I understand it, an SA is the Panamanian equivalent of an LLC but with enhanced benefits.

          I see no reason to tempt the IRS with a two-step process that involves any official record on U.S soil - and, in the process, create two lots of incorporation fees.

          Having said all this, there are a few I's that have to be dotted and T's crossed before I am ready to finalize anything. I have written to Rey Pasilini to make sure he has no problems with the proposal and can easily set up a Panamanian merchant account. I also need his advice regarding which of the banks here to use. Then I have to contact my marketing people to make sure there are no CPA network problems. Like loose pieces of an almost-completed jigsaw puzzle!

          Once all this is done, I hope to offer you a final report in hopes it might be helpful to others.

          All the best,

          Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author goingup
    Does anyone know how to input alertpay or any processor that pays worldwide into a yahoo store? (which is set up to take only paypal) probably can be done with html or something like that....anyone know?
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  • Profile picture of the author Cynthia Mosher
    Thank you Sydney. I appreciate the input. I suppose a tax specialist would be the best person to consult about this.

    2Checkout is looking pretty good too so I'm going to read up on their requirements and procedures for receipt of funds and decide how to go from there.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

      Thank you Sydney. I appreciate the input. I suppose a tax specialist would be the best person to consult about this.
      When you go to all the effort and expense we have to go through to launch a business it makes no sense IMHO not to consult specialists. None of us can be specialists in every aspect of what we need to do and to not consult seems like false economy to me.

      Although my research in this area began with this thread, what I have learned from others has led me to investigate further with experts whose pronouncements I feed back to this forum in hopes they will shorten the research time for others. But we all have different needs and what is right for one may not be right for another.

      Good luck!

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author Cynthia Mosher
    If I currently have very low activity but expect a jump after launch of my site to about $5000 a month, would that be a red flag that would push Paypal to freeze my account?
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

      If I currently have very low activity but expect a jump after launch of my site to about $5000 a month, would that be a red flag that would push Paypal to freeze my account?
      Hello Cynthia!

      That was precisely the problem I faced, except that income is expected to be much higher than $5,000 a month.

      Think about this from PayPal's side: You are ticking along with $100 a month going through the account. No problem unless a few customers create problems for PayPal. Now, without warning, $5,000 appears in the account. Don't you suppose that triggers bells and red flags to to off in their computer system? Maybe you're laundering money?

      Here's what I would do (because I think $5,000 is not a figure that will make them particularly anxious): I would contact PayPal now, during your prelaunch phase, and let them know what's coming. But I would not leave it at that. I would want to establish a contact with a phone number so that immediately before your launch you can phone this person (who in a sense has responsibility on their shoulders) and tell them: "My launch is on this date; please expect a surge in income that I expect will be the norm from now on." Make sure this person is fine with that, checking with supervisors if necessary. Answer their questions directly so that when the warning flags go up there is a record to take away PayPal's fears and allow them to assist you to build yoour business.

      When you think about it, PP very much wants your business; they get a slice of every transaction. In part, that's why the marriage between eBay and PP works so well.

      My own case is different: I live in a country to which PP will not send money, even though I have a Panamanian PP account. I would have to use my Canadian account and pay banks two lots of currency exchange, first to Canadian and then back to U.S - a round trip including PP's fees, of about 16%. That's a no-go!

      Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author Cynthia Mosher
        Thanks for the advice Sidney. I appreciate it and will do as you suggest. But let's assume my account is frozen by Paypal. Is it a lengthy or difficult process to get it activated again? Do I just sit and wait for them to review it and reactivate it or will I be required to provide some sort of proof of legitimacy?
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

          Thanks for the advice Sidney. I appreciate it and will do as you suggest. But let's assume my account is frozen by Paypal. Is it a lengthy or difficult process to get it activated again? Do I just sit and wait for them to review it and reactivate it or will I be required to provide some sort of proof of legitimacy?
          Hi Cynthia!

          Others on this thread who have had their accounts frozen would be able to give better advice than me; I have never suffered that problem.

          My understanding, though, is that it can take up to six months. One case reported here in the millions was for just one week but he has an enormous IM reputation.

          If you are able to do what I suggested in my last post and establish direct communication by phone with a specific individual in advance I think you should be able to avoid the problem. After all, $5,000 a month is less than $200 a day.

          One other way to ease the problem, I suppose, would be to offer more than one payment processor. The difficulty with that is multiple choices confuse some people who may simply click away.

          Your best bet, imho, is to speak with someone at PP, tell them what you are up to, tell them your concerns, and listen to what they have to say. Always aim to establish easy and direct contact with one person. Big hitters are appointed a special PP representative. Perhaps you could get such a person for yourself.

          Not to do this, from what I have read elsewhere in this thread, means you may have difficulty getting answers to emails and questions. Be proactive!

          Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author Cynthia Mosher
    Being proactive makes sense. Thanks Sydney!
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

      Being proactive makes sense. Thanks Sydney!
      Hi Cynthia!

      As you see from my own posts and others in this thread, the road is not necessarily smooth or what we expect when we set out. I think the answer is to go carefully (meaning check everything out for yourself after getting advice from those who have already made the trip) before committing to a particular action. Do this, have a worthwhile product, good service and marketing - plus a bit of luck - and how can you fail?

      Have a wonderful launch!

      Sydney
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      • Profile picture of the author rbr451
        I'm also looking for an alternative to PayPal. After reading through this thread, I checked out Amazon. Based on branding, etc., I figured they might be one of the better ones, but after reading through their TOS I found the following in the "Prohibited Items and Activities" list:

        Marketing Businesses - includes direct marketing, subscription merchants, telemarketing, multi-level marketing, "up-sell" merchants, infomercial merchants, and rebate-based businesses.
        Money Making ("Get Rich") Businesses - includes information guides, warranty fees, mortgage reduction services, and any product or service where a prize is guaranteed, marketing media is unavailable, premiums/incentives are offered, promises of future guaranteed results are made, or any rebate or reward program.
        They don't actually mention digital products, from what I can find, but I don't think I would take the chance. They say they can hold or freeze accounts if they think any TOS has been violated.
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        • Profile picture of the author tremayne
          Originally Posted by rbr451 View Post

          I'm also looking for an alternative to PayPal. After reading through this thread, I checked out Amazon. Based on branding, etc., I figured they might be one of the better ones, but after reading through their TOS I found the following in the "Prohibited Items and Activities" list:

          They don't actually mention digital products, from what I can find, but I don't think I would take the chance. They say they can hold or freeze accounts if they think any TOS has been violated.
          Hi Randy!

          I hope someone who uses Amazon can advise you; I use their s3 servers only for distributing digital product. That's cheap and easy.

          I agree that the brand should be useful; so many people already have Amazon accounts. Why don't you ask them to look at your product(s) and give you an opinion - then make a decision?

          Please keep us all up to date with your progress. My own path, barring further surprises, is pretty well set but I know others are looking for simpler methods to replace PayPal.

          Good luck,

          Sydney
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          • Profile picture of the author Cynthia Mosher
            I looked over PayDotCom's policies and found this.

            Taxpayer Identification Number (applies to Affiliates Only)
            Individuals or entities who register as Affiliates AND who are due any monies from their participation in the Our Affiliate Program, must provide their Taxpayer Identification Number (either their social security number or employer identification number if a United States citizen or resident, or other form of identification provided by their country of origin or residence) to Us. We cannot make any payments to said Payee until the Payee submits their appropriate Taxpayer Identification Number and supporting Identification to Us (as required by the Affiliate Agreement of The Websites).
            Furthermore, We may not pay any monies to any United States resident or citizen that would cause such Payee's cumulative earnings to meet or exceed certain statutory limits during a calendar year, until that Payee submits an original, signed copy of IRS form W-9 as per instructions contained in The Website's Terms and Conditions and/or Affiliate Agreement. We are required to collect this information from each Payee in order to report each Payee's earnings to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service, and to issue IRS form 1099-MISC to the Payee and to the IRS.
            If You are neither a citizen nor a resident of the United States, You do not need to provide a U.S. taxpayer identification number, but in this case We are required to withhold a portion of any monies that may be due to You and remit them to the IRS. (You are still required to provide us with Personal Identification as required in The Website's Terms and Conditions and/or Affiliate Agreement.) For more information on withholdings for foreign persons or entities, click here. (You must apply to the IRS for a refund of this money if You do not oWe any United States income taxes or are not subject to any laws pertaining to United States income taxes.) You should not be asked for (and You should never provide) Your taxpayer identification number, unless You are applying for a Program that entitles You to earn monies.
            We will not share any Tax Payer Information that We may have about You unless required to do so by law or court order (as further explained herein), or when necessary if We choose to transfer business assets if We sell, buy, merge or partner with other companies or businesses. Please note We may not provide You with notice prior to, or after, disclosure in such cases.
            The "click here" was not hyperlinked so I couldn't look at the information on withholdings for foreign persons or entities. But wow - they have to remit a portion of your earnings to the IRS and then you have to apply to the IRS to get it back? Has anyone experienced this?
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            • Profile picture of the author tremayne
              Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

              I looked over PayDotCom's policies and found this.

              The "click here" was not hyperlinked so I couldn't look at the information on withholdings for foreign persons or entities. But wow - they have to remit a portion of your earnings to the IRS and then you have to apply to the IRS to get it back? Has anyone experienced this?
              Hi Cynthia!

              My guess is this is a government requirement for all processors. The IRS is not going to turn a blind eye to all the billions of potential tax dollars on the 'Net. It would be interesting to know if the same wording is in the ToS for all processors.

              PayDotCom is not going to sort out which are U.S payments and which are not so they send their estimate of taxes owed to the IRS and then leave it to you to prove what share was not from U.S soil.

              My understanding is that the proper setup with a merchant account avoids this...so far.

              It would be interesting to hear from other non-U.S residents on this score.

              Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author milan
    Sydney, thanks for the invitation to visit you I guess one would need to search for mail forwarding service in Panama and new Skype number in Panama..and end up with an unusable Paypal...
    Hm...I'll probably go with a US LLC, but please keep us informed.
    p.s. ...and go to Panama simply for pleasure
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by milan View Post

      Sydney, thanks for the invitation to visit you I guess one would need to search for mail forwarding service in Panama and new Skype number in Panama..and end up with an unusable Paypal...
      Hm...I'll probably go with a US LLC, but please keep us informed.
      p.s. ...and go to Panama simply for pleasure
      Hi you old hippie!

      I didn't necessarily mean you should move here (though you could do worse), but a visit would be fun - especially now that you are buried under snow while there are clear blue skies in the mountains here and temperatures like your spring!

      Here's an update to my own plans: Panama is now a non-starter! There is no way my contact in the U.S can match a Panamanian company with a merchant account!!! [If I knew how to insert a growly smiley here there'd be one, especially since he didn't tell me that before!]

      Since the U.S is out for tax reasons, they tell me I must set up a company in the EU. I propose to establish one in the UK (where at least I speak the language). Before I do that, the merchant account people want to do what they call a pre-app...and for that they need to see the new website my marketing people are still playing with! [More Grrr!]

      I am promised I will not be taxed in the UK and that U.S dollars will remain in that currency and not be converted to British pounds or Euros. I will occasionally have to pay bank transfer fees to bring the money here or to the U.S. Later, I will look into setting up a bank account in the U.S and having the bulk of the money go there directly from the UK bank.

      Moments ago, I completed - as far as I know - the final task on this project other than admin. Now, a glutton for punishment, I move onto an even more salable CPA / continuity offer (at least, I think it is more salable and the continuity program will be perpetual!). At least this one should take only months rather than years to complete and launch.

      My journey through this thread and the great advice I have had from so many along the way is almost complete. I'll let everyone who is interested know what the final result is. I am very grateful for all the help I have received.

      All the best,

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author eaglechick
    Paypal, 2CO & clickbank are out. Nanacast looks great. Thoughts?

    Hi Sydney

    Check out the above thread and the comments by Josh Anderson about a system called Nanacast - maybe that can also help! Great info supplied here as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by eaglechick View Post

      Paypal, 2CO & clickbank are out. Nanacast looks great. Thoughts?

      Hi Sydney

      Check out the above thread and the comments by Josh Anderson about a system called Nanacast - maybe that can also help! Great info supplied here as well.
      Hi Eaglechick!

      Do you have any idea how many eagles there are where I live! They are as thick as crows in the north. Once, just one mile apart, I saw two flocks each of at least 200 birds. But back the the subject...

      Looks like an interesting site that others might be interested in. I did not watch the videos (a matter of time) but he seems to be very thorough - and people get a seven day free trial without submitting credit card info. That's good (and shows confidence in his product).

      My own course is set but this looks like something others should take a look at.

      Thanks for telling us about it.

      Sydney
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    • Profile picture of the author Cynthia Mosher
      Originally Posted by eaglechick View Post

      Paypal, 2CO & clickbank are out. Nanacast looks great. Thoughts?

      Hi Sydney

      Check out the above thread and the comments by Josh Anderson about a system called Nanacast - maybe that can also help! Great info supplied here as well.
      I didn't find a thread linked in your post and a search turned up nada. Do you have a link to share please?

      I skimmed over Nanacast's site but I'm not sure how it will help me with my situation.
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  • Profile picture of the author nickey512
    ive been waiting recharge my paypal account and waiting for the 4 digit, so slow. i asked my credit card bank, saids its still floating.huh..
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Ranger
    If you're targeting a UK market I can't
    recommend NoChex enough. It's easy to
    set up, they don't take a huge cut, and
    if there's any problems they will e-mail you
    rather than 'freezing' your account.
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  • Profile picture of the author CoolWebStuff
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by CoolWebStuff View Post

      Sydney ur comments were very valuable and informative.
      I like using paypal primarily bcoz most of my clients like to use it however, for our hosting stuff we accept MoneyBookers and AlertPay. Havent used Liberty but hean that it has a good repo.
      I understand what you mean about PayPal; it is popular with buyers. One of two significant problems with it is that they are prone to freezing seller's accounts for up to 6 months. No one can afford that when doing a big launch - which is why I started this thread. The other problem is that they will not transfer money to Panama, where I live.

      I have learned a lot from this thread and the research resulting from people's comments and I am sure other readers have, too. That was my second reason for starting the thread. It is also the reason I keep providing to those who are interested a blow-by-blow description of what I am discovering and doing - a description that should end in the next couple of weeks!

      What has been taking place in the two weeks since I last posted has shown me how important it was to enter into this research and how much more complicated - in my own case - the final process would be.

      As I indicated before, I have decided to go the merchant account route so I can accept credit cards directly. (While PayPal is popular, not all customers who have credit cards also have a PayPal account.) I will also accept bank payments and, I hope, telephone bill payments given that many people these days no longer have credit cards.

      Setting up a merchant account in the U.S is easy. Everything you need is there. If you are a U.S resident you expect to pay U.S taxes, and you will.

      But I am not a U.S resident and fortunately I live in a country where tax is not paid on foreign income. That presented more surprises along the path!

      I'm dealing with a merchant account provider in the U.S. It would have been easy to set up everything - merchant account, company, bank - in the U.S but then I would have been subject to U.S taxes. I thought I could establish a company (you must have a company to be able to deal directly with credit cards) in Panama, a country that uses the American dollar as its currency.

      Simple!

      Oh no! There is no way a company in Panama can get a merchant account! The U.S merchant account provider has suggested I set up a company in the European Union!

      What a convoluted maze!

      I have decided to form a company in the UK where, at least, I speak the language.

      The merchant account provider suggested delaying that until he could do a pre-application review. He rejected the draft page the marketers had proposed and which, for different reasons, I had also rejected.

      The reason for his rejection was that it offered a free ebook and this would not be acceptable under the new MasterCard rules. (That is not how I read those rules, because the ebook was to be free, not free plus shipping.)

      But those rules also seem to ban upsells, so IM is on its ear right now. (I have an initial standalone product followed by an optional continuity program.)

      The site as it had been proposed also played havoc with FTC and SEC (it's an investment teaching product) rules so the other day I scrapped the suggested page and drafted my own. The marketers, if they think it needs it, can change it from a marketing perspective.

      We are now trying to get everyone together for a teleconference so the revised page can go through the merchant account pre-application process. Once that is done, I can go ahead with setting up the UK corporation and a UK bank account. I am assured (and surprised to hear) that because income will be passed through to my account in Panama I will not be subject to UK taxes.

      The 60-plus page ebook? That, too, has been rewritten and improved, will be brandable, and will be offered to affiliates to distribute and hopefully make viral. It will not appear directly on the new website - though it will be offered freely on social networks.

      From concept until now has been a five-year ride, sometimes exasperating, sometimes fun. I believe having your own product is ultimately the way to go - but if I had known five years ago what I now know I would have gone about it entirely differently.

      You see, until very recently this has been a solo ride. I knew nothing other than word processing about computers, web site design software, marketing, video production, audio recording and editing, PowerPoint...the list goes on and on. As a loner, I had to teach myself all that stuff and much more along the way. Living on a small pension, I couldn't afford to hire others who already had the expertise. The result has been a five-year journey when the book that started it (and is available in bookstores worldwide!) took just three months to write.

      In hindsight, what I should have done was learn how to be an affiliate marketer first. I would still have needed to learn a lot but it would have been far less than what I did learn doing things the way I did. With the income from affiliate marketing I could then have hired experts in the areas I knew nothing about. My guess is that five years would then have been reduced to two.

      I hope this insight helps a few people.

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author yukiyenster
    Sydney,

    You sir are a true gentleman. Thank you so much for sharing all of this information, and taking the time summarize and update everyone else on this post. I was going through similar payment merchant problems as I travel through Asia (Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Phillipines, Vietnam) pretty much 90% of the time due to my full time job. (I'm a consultant)

    I would also like to thank other contributors like James, Milan and Cynthia for adding so much value to the thread. In fact this thread should be stickied to help all the non US and UK residents out there.

    I have a few ideas that might help though,

    How about using more than 1 payment merchant, Sydney. If you choose to split payment options into Paypal, 2CO AND have your own merchant account, etc. It will benefit your customers greatly by giving them more payment choices. In fact, it will also increase your credibility to them by having so many payment partners.

    Yes it will be more troublesome on your end having to handle more than 1 payment merchant but for me it's possibly worth the trouble. At least if for some unfortunate reason, your funds still get stuck with 1 merchant you can still access your funds from the other 2 merchants. Never put all eggs in 1 basket right?

    Someone mentioned epassporte earlier, I caution ANYONE against using them. They are very unprofessional and shady and looks like it was put up by a drug dealer using it to launder their money. (Ok, well maybe not, but that's the feeling I get from them) You can find more scam reports on epassporte easily on google.

    If anyone has experience with good payment merchants that work well with Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore and Vietnam please do let me know. Any help will be truly appreciated. I'm currently still using Paypal only but I've been lucky as my balances have been more on the low side but I'm launching a product in less than 2 months and would like to explore all options available.

    I will do the due diligence and share everything I've learnt along the way back on this thread too...

    Thanks,

    Yuki
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    • Profile picture of the author Cynthia Mosher
      Thanks for the thanks Yuki.

      Those of you recommending a merchant account, I assume you use a shopping cart for processing. I'm still trying to sort this out and still not sure which way to turn. My product is a membership site using Simple Member Pro and I don't think there is shopping cart connectivity in the software. So, short of manual processing each payment, is a merchant account not a possibility for me?
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  • Profile picture of the author tremayne
    Hello Yuki!

    I also than you for the thanks!

    My journey is almost over but it has not been cheap and likely works for very few others.

    First of all: cost - and in part this may answer Cynthia's question. By the time I am finished in the next week or two (these things always seem to take at least twice as long as we are told!) I figure to have spent about $10,000.

    1. The design/management company (I don't really know how to describe them) chosen on the basis of a recommendation from a fellow WF member and for their very close association with a number of the large affiliate networks. $6,500. Cynthia seems to be going it alone which is waaaay beyond my capability. Congratulations and good luck, Cynthia!
    2. Because I live in Panama where merchant accounts don't appear to exist* and where foreign income is not taxable, I could not set up a merchant account here. *Another WF member wrote a private message to say he was able to do so through a Panamanian bank.
    3. If I had set up a merchant account in the U.S, I would have been taxed in the U.S.
    4. I was advised by my merchant account provider in the U.S to establish a company in the EU. Coincidentally, after all the other delays, this was done today in the UK and I am now waiting for documentation. I used UK company formation & incorporation services provided online by Formations House UK which is specialists in company formations UK, incorporate registered readymade companies, starting new companies, creating new limited companies, shelf list, off th for the registrar carefully picking out what I needed from their menu. I deleted some things because they would have meant duplication. This knocked the bill down about £100 but still came to over $1,000.
    5. Once I have the company documentation, I then need to set up a bank account in the Channel Islands (it could also have been in Liechtenstein), a tax haven. Researching that was interesting though not difficult. One bank wanted a deposit of $50,000 minimum (also the maximum insurable amount for banks there)! Then I found LloydsTSB and spoke to someone on the phone there at 2 a.m. their time! Service totally unlike Panama! Cost: zero; deposit, zero; seems simple so far.
    6. The pre-application for the merchant account is approved. They need to see the website to make sure all the new credit card rules are applied, especially for continuity programs. (Hey! There's one step actually completed!)
    7. The merchant account folks in the U.S sent me seven pages of forms that needed lots of banking research and cannot be finalized until I have documentation back from the Channel Islands. The gateway setup fee is $1,500.
    8. Once all this is done, pricing and advertising is tested before everything gets sent to the affiliate networks to decide how they want to play - if they do!

    A launch I expected in February or, at the latest, March might now get done in May!

    Slightly off topic (but it may give others ideas), I spent yesterday filling out a ton of stuff for Elance. I need to earn some cash in a hurry. I haven't enough cash to pay all the bills so I will do some freelance writing. I expect to be able to earn $3,000 a month for each of the next two months. That will ease a lot of problems; I am going the LA in June to meet my intended bride. Can't go in rags!

    Meanwhile, to keep sane through all the waiting and delays, I have written another book that will be accompanied by a perpetual and very sticky continuity program. There have been a lot of sleepless nights as the nocturnal ideas churned. Over the next year, there will be books for at least 11 countries, together with continuity programs, and I figure I will need a virtual staff of somewhere near 60 people spread all over the world.

    It is amazing what can come from an ebook idea five years ago and looks like growing into an international financial publishing house! It all depends on how much cash this next venture produces.

    Let me finish this with a question. I badly need some advice about the new 300+ page book. I am pretty sure it can be sold for $47 or more, allowing affiliates $40 and most of the rest for expenses. In other words, I don't expect to make anything from it - and that's fine. Its purpose is to promote a weekly newsletter at $9.95 a month - less than $2.50 a week.

    The U.S version, which back-tests the 30 Dow Jones Industrial Average stocks for 25 years and will give strong proof of safe returns currently guessed to average about 30%, will be ready to market in June or July of this year. My aim is for it to have the widest possible circulation among people interested in stocks.

    Here's the question: should I sell it or give it away? The ultimate aim is to have 10,000 U.S subscribers within six months of the book's launch.

    After a three-month delay to allow a team in the UK to do a website, promotion and all the other things needed for a launch there, there will be a new version every two weeks in nine other countries, each country with its own team. My work on each new version is about two solid weeks but the teams will be overlapping production in their own countries.

    If I give the book away (meaning no one earns anything), how should I promote it. Obviously, I want it to go viral in a big way. Are there proven and trusted specialists who do this sort of thing and if so how do they get paid?

    You know, someone should take this thread and others, do a bit of rewriting, and make an excellent IM ebook from A to Z.

    Thanks for all your help!

    Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author oceanic
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by oceanic View Post

      Hi Tremayne!

      I use Paysafecard! They are easy to purchase, easy to handle and safe!
      I am not familiar with it but hope your comment may be helpful to others.

      All the best,

      Sydney
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  • Profile picture of the author vishalduggal
    Why don't you use swerg.com. I think this can be a good alternative to PP.
    And Google Checkout is good but they don't accept PayPal as much as I know. And they are only available in US and UK.
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    • Profile picture of the author tremayne
      Originally Posted by vishalduggal View Post

      Why don't you use swerg.com. I think this can be a good alternative to PP.
      And Google Checkout is good but they don't accept PayPal as much as I know. And they are only available in US and UK.
      Thanks for the heads up! We have decided to form an offshore company in England and to use a merchant account. We launch next week.

      All the best,

      Sydney
      Signature

      CEO
      Wealthy Investor Limited
      http://wealthyinvestorweekly.com

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