Traffic Geyser FirePower Offline Business Builder

23 replies
I was waiting to possibly buy this product but am hesitant to fork over $2000 for any info product, no matter how good it seems. I just think that price point is excessive to the extreme. However, I would like to hear from anyone who has bought it (not promoted it as a JV).

Tom
#builder #business #firepower #geyser #offline #traffic
  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    All I know is they went from having a $97/mo (maybe even $45/mo payment option) with a $267/mo PLATINUM OPTION, to having just...one product...the platinum option...

    while also removing the month-to-month ability for payment, and instead going for the 12month locked in price.

    That and they havent really added any features, more-so they just added a training program for how to make money with the existing program (how about an auto-account creation ability for $2,000/yr vs $97 per profile?)

    So ya...I've been a member before...it's decent...but $2,000 for a software that is pretty much just focused on video promotion?

    I'd rather just use something like Web2Mayhem, SENuke, etc. and have video promotion ALONG with auto-account creation and additional backlink tools

    Just my thoughts...dunno...I'm thinking they were having many people sign-up...try it for a month...and quit...so now they want to lock in people for the full year at a "$16,000 savings!"
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    • Profile picture of the author mrsrp
      I don't see how Traffic Geyser Firepower provides any ROI to the small businesses they're supposed to serve. The example in the video presentation suggests to begin by googling a keyword phrase like:

      "san diego chiropractor"

      where there are multiple PPC advertisers and lots of competing websites

      Then, to drill down into a subniche like:

      "san diego spinal decompression"

      where there are less competing sites and there are still advertisers.

      By creating an animoto video and blasting it out with Traffic Geyser, you can get a 1st page google position within a couple days.

      This is supposed to impress the local chiropractor that's currently spending money on PPC, and supposedly they'll want to spend $1,000+ each month to hire you on retainer to keep him on the front page.

      But, I have to ask:

      How many searches are there each month on this local long-tail phrase? Google's External Keyword tools says there are less than 100/month on "denver spinal decompression" in phrase or exact match, and 260 in broad match.

      Out of the very few searches, how many clicks would we expect? Googling the video examples in the presentation shows that only 1-5 clicks are being produced on each of the videos.

      If a small business was only going to get 1-5 clicks for the $1,000+ investment in our video SEO services, why wouldn't they be better served to simply continue with their PPC approach?

      The Traffic Geyser Firepower video SEO approach looks like it provides clicks at $200+ each.

      Why would a small business give up their PPC expenses in favor of $200+ clicks?

      I would love it if the value proposition that Traffic Geyser is suggesting was true, but I don't see how it works in niches where there is such a small amount of searches.

      Traffic Geyser suggests that if you buy their program, you can get $3,500 to $4,500 in up front fees from clients and $1,200 to $3,000 in monthly fees to continue the service.

      For a couple of clicks each month?

      What am I missing?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    Well in fairness look how many businesses spend thousands of dollars a month of Yellow Page ads etc.

    What kind of ROI does a Yellow Page ad realistically get you these days?

    I think the Traffic Geyser videos are more a testimonial to SEO in general (getting businesses exposure on Google organically) and that can be done with more than JUST video marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrsrp
      I think the value proposition that was suggested in the TG video was: "Mr. Business Owner, just think you won't have to pay PPC costs, when you have these great first page Google results."

      I'm really just checking if my understanding is correct. They'll likely get only a couple of clicks for their monthly investment of $1,000+

      I think they would be better served to stick with their PPC campaign and only pay for the few clicks they'd get (even if they were a couple bucks each.)
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  • Profile picture of the author JimOrr
    Well truth be known there are things being added into the package as each day rolls by in this promotion to sweeten the pot. The iPhone app just announced today may be something to take a look at.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrsrp
      I hope someone can explain to me where my understand is wrong.

      But the model suggested in the TG Firepower looks like you're selling a SEO service to local business owners who are unaware they will not achieve any positive ROI.

      You are taking advantage of their lack of knowledge.

      They'll pay $1,000+/month to have a video sit on the front page of Google (for a couple days) based on a search phrase that hardly anyone searches for and even fewer people click.

      SEO works much better when you have a niche where there are a lot of searches across a large geographic area (like the world, or the US). However, when the niche is limited to a local geography (the name of a city), you end up with a very small amount of searches, and even fewer clicks.

      Just how many calls do you think a business would get for their $1,200-$2,600 per month in recurring fees as suggested in the TG presentation?

      What would the net cost per call be for the small business? It would likely be measured in the hundreds of dollars per call.

      Would that make good business sense for them, when they could achieve the same thing by using geotargeted PPC for 1/10th or 1/20th the expense?

      Please tell me where I'm wrong in this analysis.
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      • Profile picture of the author kkeithnr
        I use a combination of tools along with Traffic Geyser being one of them. I have detailed a basic strategy that I use to market one of my products in local markets with pretty good results.

        I will say the great majority of my local rankings for this particular product are from the videos that I submitted via Traffic Geyser. Of course I backed it up with other tools such as Senuke for a total strategy...but my Search engine positions that I detailed below have been sitting in their respective positions for months and months.

        Guess it depends on the niche, product etc...of your potential local client.

        Based upon my own tests and results as noted below as well as some others I am going to go after some local businesses.

        Just decided to share my strategy for getting awesome results in the local markets and good results overall....



        Because I run a naturopathic practice out of Orlando I am always looking for affordable and largely automated ways to advertise. Some years ago while trying my hand at a little internet marketing with an ebook that I had written I made about $3000.00 dollars and in fact I still get 1-2 sales per month from it even though I don't promote it anymore---I was sold on internet marketing and advertising from that point on.

        As you might imagine it is a bit of a challenge working in my profession and doing internet marketing.

        So I developed a largely automated strategy that works very well especially for local clients if you have them.

        I will take a real product that I am currently advertising for men...a natural health supplement and show the results and the process that I used.

        1) I start off with Market Samurai to help locate the profitable keywords of a particular niche. Also use it to analyze the number of backlinks,domain age etc. of the top ten results for the particular keyword or phrase.

        2) Then I actually go to Google and type modifiers of the keywords that I discovered in Market Samurai with the city---for instance Orlando or some of the other cities that I advertise in specifically. If there are lots of Adwords ads then I typically go after it if it fits all of the parameters that I discovered with Market Samurai since that means its probably profitable since people are running ads. I also sometime use PPC WEB Spy to help determine how long the advertiser has been running the Ads. If they have been running for at least 60 days it is a fair bet they may be making some money.

        3) Next with the particular product in discussion that I am promoting I ran it through Senuke(I recently added the EVO 2 software into the mix...but the majority of the strategy here does not include it...haven't ran it long enough to verify its results). After 2-3 runs over the period of a few days with Senuke I then created videos with Traffic Geyser and submitted them, and then ran the URL's from Traffic Geyser through Senuke.

        4) As I said above recently I added EVO into the mix. I have taken the money site that I had been promoting this particular product with and ran it through EVO. After the first run for the product page I moved up one spot from 6 to 5, (516,000 competing pages) but this was not in local search but national. Had been trying to move up for months...however I dropped back down to that spot...so of course I have ran it again through EVO(after waiting 4-7 days of course) I believe their SEO guys are trying to protect their position. The final verdict is still out on that one...but I believe it will come. I then take the sites produced by EVO and run them through Senuke.

        5) Now I did leave out one step...I sometimes use Unique Article Wizard for articles and point the the URL to my money page or web 2.0 site. This can be done near the beginning or at the end of the campaign.

        My Results

        Now for the local listing in Orlando for this particular male product there are 8 Adwords ADS on the first page and 8 on the second page-- definitely profitable...but get this... only 8,350 competing pages!

        Where did I show up? I have the first 5 spots and then spot #7, 8, and 10. I am at number 1 with video (You Tube), Number 2 with video from Kewego, Number 3 with video from Revver, number 4 with Video from Myspace, number 5 with video from Goblr etc.

        On page 2 just below the 3 sponsored links at the top of the page...(I guess that would make it a total of 11 Adwords ads with the 8 on the side) I own the first 5 spots!

        My research showed a desire for this particular product in New York and in Baltimore. So I targeted New York. Did a google search yesterday with the term "buy" before this particular product. It has 78,000 competing pages with a total of 11 Adwords ads on page 1...8 on the side and three sponsored.

        Where am I ? Number 4,5,9 and 10...But you know what, I never specifically targeted this particular phrase. When I checked the specific phrase I targeted for that area, there are 75,600 competing pages, and the same number of Adwords ads. I am at positions 2, 4, and 8.

        What was the result in Baltimore? 12,900 competing pages with the same 8 Adwords ads on the right and the 3 sponsored ads at the top.

        My rankings?..Positions 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 8 a mixture of video and web 2.0. Also have a couple of listings on the next page.

        So as I bring EVO more and more into the overall strategy the rankings should look really well.

        Finally the real question is not rankings, but sales. Well for this product...it does pretty good, just yesterday I sold two units at nearly $40.00 a piece and the person also decided to order something else while they were on the site...giving me nearly $100.00.

        So if you are in for the local business business model, you could do well for your clients following a similar strategy.

        I think Traffic Geyser is just part of the overall strategy and it should be used as such. As for me...I have found it to benefit my business.

        All the best.
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        • Profile picture of the author mrsrp
          Originally Posted by kkeithnr View Post

          I use a combination of tools along with Traffic Geyser being one of them. I have detailed a basic strategy that I use to market one of my products in local markets with pretty good results. ...Finally the real question is not rankings, but sales. Well for this product...it does pretty good, just yesterday I sold two units at nearly $40.00 a piece and the person also decided to order something else while they were on the site...giving me nearly $100.00... So if you are in for the local business business model, you could do well for your clients following a similar strategy.... I think Traffic Geyser is just part of the overall strategy and it should be used as such. As for me...I have found it to benefit my business.
          Thanks for the details on your strategy. You have provided an excellent example of how you can easily dominate the Google results on certain geographic, long-tail, keyword phrases.

          However, let me ask a question. How much money should a business person be willing to invest in SEO (Traffic Geyser + SENuke) to make this $100?

          Would he be willing to pay a Traffic Geyser Firepower trained professional $1,200 to $2,600 per month, as suggested in the presentation?

          That would be a significant loss on his investment, right?

          The bottom line is that unless this $100 profit can be made by investing significantly less than $100, you're throwing money away. It's a losing proposition.

          A profitable advertising campaign can be done with geo-targeted PPC, however, if a small business person needs to hire a PPC consultant for $1,000+ it blows the entire budget.

          I maintain that SEO efforts to advertise a local business service are doomed from the start. It's negative ROI all the way.

          The Traffic Geyser Firepower business model for local business is flawed. It is a losing proposition. A consultant who sold this would simply be taking his clients money without providing any possibility of positive return.
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          • Profile picture of the author mrsrp
            And let's note another significant flaw in the business model: Local Search Results

            Google either of these terms that were used in the Firepower presentation:

            san diego spinal decompression
            san diego chiropractor

            What do you see above the fold? You see paid advertisements and Local Search.

            If I'm doing a search on these terms, the first thing I see is 11-14 links (Paid + Local). I don't even see any of the organic results unless I look below the fold.

            So, even if you totally dominate the organic local results, you've got 11-14 links above you.

            When Google displays Local search results, it's game over for an SEO consultant trying to help the local business.

            I really think a local business only chance at positive ROI is to get into Google's local search results or do geo-targeted PPC.

            Please show me where I'm wrong. I'd love to offer a service like this, but I don't see how any business could have a chance of recouping the costs.
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            • Profile picture of the author mrsrp
              I just posted this question on the Traffic Geyser Firepower comment section. Let's see if it gets answered or censored:

              ===

              I'd love to buy your product and offer this service, but I think there is no way for a local business person to see any return on his investment. Please explain where I'm wrong:

              Google's External Keyword Tool says there's less than 100 searches per month on these phrases:

              san diego spinal decompression = 46
              spinal decompression therapy san diego = 36
              spinal decompression in san diego = 16

              Now, Google any of these phrases and what do you see? There are no organic results above the fold. You can only see 8 paid links and 3-6 "Local Business Results" with a map

              With all that going on above the fold, how many of these 100/month searches will find their way below the fold to the organic links Traffic Geyser may have produced?

              Let's say it's 10%. That's 10 clicks per month. At $1,200 to $2,600 per month in retainer fees, a local business would be paying $120 to $260 per click. And if 10% of these leads converted, that would be 1 sale produced for $1,200 to $2,600 investment?

              Isn't SEO for local businesses a complete non-starter? There's just not enough search volume to justify the cost of investing in an SEO consultant.

              TrafficGeyser SEO is perfect for businesses with large geographic target market areas... businesses that are selling to the entire US, or entire world, but it's not cost-effective for local businesses, because there's not enough search volume locally.

              The only way for them to profit would be to use geo-targeted PPC on their own, without the expense of hiring a consultant. Even at a few bucks per click, the costs would be so much lower, they'd have a chance at positive ROI

              Please explain the flaw in my understanding. Thanks.
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              • Profile picture of the author joncrx
                Originally Posted by mrsrp View Post

                I just posted this question on the Traffic Geyser Firepower comment section. Let's see if it gets answered or censored:

                ===

                I'd love to buy your product and offer this service, but I think there is no way for a local business person to see any return on his investment. Please explain where I'm wrong:

                Google's External Keyword Tool says there's less than 100 searches per month on these phrases:

                san diego spinal decompression = 46
                spinal decompression therapy san diego = 36
                spinal decompression in san diego = 16

                Now, Google any of these phrases and what do you see? There are no organic results above the fold. You can only see 8 paid links and 3-6 "Local Business Results" with a map

                With all that going on above the fold, how many of these 100/month searches will find their way below the fold to the organic links Traffic Geyser may have produced?

                Let's say it's 10%. That's 10 clicks per month. At $1,200 to $2,600 per month in retainer fees, a local business would be paying $120 to $260 per click. And if 10% of these leads converted, that would be 1 sale produced for $1,200 to $2,600 investment?

                Isn't SEO for local businesses a complete non-starter? There's just not enough search volume to justify the cost of investing in an SEO consultant.

                TrafficGeyser SEO is perfect for businesses with large geographic target market areas... businesses that are selling to the entire US, or entire world, but it's not cost-effective for local businesses, because there's not enough search volume locally.

                The only way for them to profit would be to use geo-targeted PPC on their own, without the expense of hiring a consultant. Even at a few bucks per click, the costs would be so much lower, they'd have a chance at positive ROI

                Please explain the flaw in my understanding. Thanks.
                [DISCLOSURE, I WORK WITH TRAFFIC GEYSER. I gave this post to Mike Koenigs directly and here is his personal response. I've also posted this to your comment on our comments page]

                Hi Sam, great questions.

                You bring up some very valid and real points we get all the time.

                I'll do my best to go through them step-by-step. Allow me to "pre-frame" my response to you first...

                1. The video with Brian Zimmerman was done with the purpose of illustrating how to start up a business quickly and illustrate the process quickly without getting into too many complex and overwhelming details.

                2. Without knowing EXACTLY who our audience is who watches these videos, we want to start with some basics and then get more complex without the demonstration taking too long. We live in a "short attention span" world - and we need to meet our viewers where they are.

                3. In our "Powered By Traffic Geyser" system, we have beginner, intermediate, advanced and very advanced strategies for getting and maintaining customers and achieving consistent positioning in the search engines and attracting qualified leads, capturing them, following up and then converting those leads into sales.

                4. In our experience, the vast majority of newbie marketers and even small businesses struggle with basic marketing concepts. But with a few basic lessons about search engine optimization, basic keyword strategies, content distribution, the creation of an offer and a follow up system, most anyone can get up to speed in 2-4 hours and get results.

                5. You can't do one single strategy forever and expect it to produce results forever.

                6. It's virtually impossible to put up one video and get any significant traffic. You would never expect to be able to put one classified advertisement in a small newspaper and get calls for a year, right? You need to put the ad in the newspaper every week, and ideally, in a lot of places.

                The same is true with the online world. You can't blast a single video out and expect to get and keep top rankings for a long time...

                (I do have a bunch of videos in highly-competitive areas with tens of millions of competing pages that have stuck for YEARS, but you can't bet your company's future on this).

                Instead, you focus on "base hits" - lots of videos that are long-tail, keyword-loaded that get you consistent traffic, backlinks and high-quality visitors that convert...

                7. Google and every search engine rewards NEW, FREQUENT, RELEVANT CONTENT. No matter what kind of trick of the month or RSS gimmick or goofy exploit that gets invented, Google is going to find out what it is and shut it down unless it gives users what they're looking for.

                Users don't like Spam or fraud. Neither does Google. And human nature will always try to look for the "easy way out", the silver bullet and the magic button and free money instead of putting in some good old fashioned hard work and the discipline necessary to build a real business based on character and integrity.




                HAVING SAID ALL OF THIS


                Here's the formula I recommend:

                1. Find a localized keyword business to dominate (let's say it's "san diego chiropractor")
                2. Find all the associated services, keywords, questions and problems that someone would look for online when searching for that business
                3. Make 10-20 30-second to 3 minute videos about those things.

                The formula that we utilize to maximize results and exposure for all the services a business offers is our 10x10x4 formula in which you'd create 10 short videos on the most frequently asked questions (FAQ) that you get in your business, followed by the 10 should ask questions (SAQ) in order to better educate your prospects. The 4 stands for the other videos you create for your lead page, offer, and thank you video. This formula allows you to showcase all services offered and provides you with plenty of content to generate sustainable results with great residual effects.

                5. Bottom line: every video points back to a lead capture page... We have strategies we teach to maximize high-quality traffic...

                6. Nothing beats creating REAL CONTENT. Google will never penalize you for creating REAL CONTENT. Short videos with an answer to a question get viewed and if there's a brief call to action at the end of the video that's not overly intrusive, you WILL get quality visitors to your site who are ready to opt-in.

                7. BONUS - RECOMMENDED: Convert those videos into blog posts, articles using our transcription feature. We put that content into little PDF buyer's guides. Traffic Geyser has a click to transcribe feature built-in (it uses real people, and yes, it costs extra but it's reasonably-priced)

                8. The videos, articles, blog posts, etc. get blasted out to video, social bookmarking, social network, blogs, turned into podcasts, sent to podcast directories, transcoded to over 100 different locations

                - It's not uncommon to see 40-250 backlinks in a few days as a result of this...so you're lead capture page or money site benefits. And despite what you hear about "nofollow tags" not being followed, you can see evidence of this strategy working.

                - It's not uncommon to dominate MULTIPLE organic search listings quickly - and because the media and content spans different types, the longevity of that content will also vary. In other words, videos and podcasts hit first but may die down quickly but the articles and PDF content will rise slower and remain in the listings longer.

                - The world doesn't rise and fall with Google. Despite the fact that Google's keyword search tool might report "no searches", I've seen evidence for the 4+ years I've been doing video search that just because Google doesn't report the search volume, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

                So if you have 20+ videos out there and there are a few hundred localized searches happening monthly, the views, visits and leads grow.

                And if you're DISCIPLINED and continue making GOOD CONTENT, this has a snowball effect...

                - LOTS of localized searches originate from social book marking, social media, video sites, etc. Just because Google doesn't report searches doesn't mean they don't happen.


                What we teach our "Powered By" consultants to do is:

                1. Put up a video
                2. Send traffic to lead capture page
                3. Prove to prospect they can get rankings and some leads
                4. Provide a package to the customer and provide monthly video production and submission services which consists of a 10x10x4 campaign, lead capture page and follow up sequence
                5. Make and submit 4-10 videos per month and submit them to get and keep organic listings alive
                6. Repeat
                7. Now that you've built trust with that customer, offer to upset them even more services
                8. Now go out to multiple non-competitive clients and offer to cross-promote and cross-sell to their lists that you've been building
                9. Now offer to reduce your rates and take a piece of the action and get paid based on PERFORMANCE
                10. EVERYBODY WINS

                Look, it might not sound like the sexiest business in the world, but it works.

                The small business owner wins. You can build a multiple six-figure business in a year or two and be your own boss.

                And it can be started in a couple weeks or months without a lot of money or experience.

                At the end of the day, it's all about relationships, trust, bonding, goodwill and doing the right thing.


                Let me show you an example of something I made for me.

                But first, the disclaimers so this doesn't turn into some back-and-forth shootout:
                YES, the production value is higher than a video shot with a $150 camera
                NO, it doesn't advertise or market a local business
                NO, I'm not going to give away my most profitable niches and have someone go and knock them off
                YES, this promotes an affiliate link

                Example:

                search in Google for:
                kodak zi8 camera review

                On my browser, this shows up #2:

                It's been watched 7,315 times
                Over 5,000 are completely organic since Nov 15

                25% of the visitors from this video who visit my opt-in page join my list.

                And my funnel takes care of the rest.


                This stuff works. You either believe me or you don't.


                Sincerely,
                Mike Koenigs
                Co-Founder, TrafficGeyser.com
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                • Profile picture of the author mrsrp
                  Dear Mike,

                  Thank you for taking the time to explain your views on this question. I do know that Traffic Geyser is a very valuable tool for doing SEO work, especially where there is a large target market area, for example, across the entire US or world.

                  However, anyone who intends to use SEO tools like this to help local businesses need to understand two basic points that significantly change the power of these tools.

                  Whenever you add a city's name to the search phrase,

                  1) It significantly reduces the amount of prospect searches

                  2) It usually introduces "Local Search Results" that pushes your client right down the page.

                  To illustrate point #1, note that:

                  "chiropractor" is searched for in Google 1,000,000 times per month.
                  "san diego chiropractor" is searched for only 1,900 times per month. (a 500x reduction)

                  "transmission repair" - 135,000 searches per month
                  "denver transmission repair" - 260 searches per month (a 500x reduction)

                  So, you are, in effect, marketing to a very small niche.

                  But, the biggest killer is the problem introduced with Local Search Results.

                  For example, one of your Firepower trained consultants is currently providing service to a Transmission Repair company in Denver.

                  He's developing and posting videos using the logical keyword phrase "Denver transmission repair". That's what most people would type into Google, if they were looking for this service, right?

                  Go ahead and Google: denver transmission repair

                  What do you see?

                  At the top, are all the competitors who are not paying for any SEO services, but they're simply listed at the top of the page in the Local Results for FREE.

                  Furthermore, at the top of the page, you see the folks that are using geo-targeted PPC at about $2.00 per click. Since there are only 260 searches per month on this phrase, and they'll only get a fraction of those, their total bill is likely less than $200 per month, maybe below $100 per month.

                  However, what about the transmission company who's paying $1,200 to $2,600 per month to an SEO professional? Where are they and what value are they getting?

                  They are about 20-30 down in the organic search results. So, from the top of the page, that's 8 Local Search links, 8 Paid Search links, and 20+ organic results down.... before any prospect would find them.

                  Because this local company is depending on SEO, while their competitors are using Local Search and PPC, they will get a very small fraction of the prospects.

                  SEO is great, when it's for products like the video camera in your attached video. That's because the product can be sold to a large geographic area, not just a certain city.

                  SEO is also great when you don't have Local Search pushing you down the page. However, anytime you name a city, you've got the problem.

                  So, while SEO professionals are working for great positioning in the SERPs, I would simply put my competing client in the Local Search results for FREE, and set up a geo-targeted PPC campaign. My client would be at the top, while SEO clients would be well below.


                  I really do wish the best to anyone who's trying to provide an SEO service to local businesses.

                  I look forward to hearing from anyone whose clients can recoup the $1,200 to $2,600, they are paying to their SEO consultant, when the target market area for their product or service is limited to a small geographic area.

                  And please understand this isn't knock on Traffic Geyser, because it's a wonderful tool. The issue is about the challenges related providing positive ROI to our clients who are choosing to work with us and hoping to actually get some amount of financial return for their investment in our services.

                  Thanks
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          • Profile picture of the author kkeithnr
            Originally Posted by mrsrp View Post

            Thanks for the details on your strategy. You have provided an excellent example of how you can easily dominate the Google results on certain geographic, long-tail, keyword phrases.

            However, let me ask a question. How much money should a business person be willing to invest in SEO (Traffic Geyser + SENuke) to make this $100?

            Would he be willing to pay a Traffic Geyser Firepower trained professional $1,200 to $2,600 per month, as suggested in the presentation?

            That would be a significant loss on his investment, right?

            The bottom line is that unless this $100 profit can be made by investing significantly less than $100, you're throwing money away. It's a losing proposition.

            A profitable advertising campaign can be done with geo-targeted PPC, however, if a small business person needs to hire a PPC consultant for $1,000+ it blows the entire budget.

            I maintain that SEO efforts to advertise a local business service are doomed from the start. It's negative ROI all the way.

            The Traffic Geyser Firepower business model for local business is flawed. It is a losing proposition. A consultant who sold this would simply be taking his clients money without providing any possibility of positive return.

            I think you make some good points, and I agree that a business owner would need to have a descent return on his investment and as an honest person offering him/her services one should not do to the owner that which they would not want someone else to do to them.

            Additionally I think a smart business owner would also monitor the situation to see whether or not he is seeing a descent return on his investment and if not end the services.

            Now with regard to should a business owner be willing to pay SEO the fee for Traffic Geyser/Senuke to make that $100.00. Well if the $100 was the only ROI... no. But that was for just 1 day. However if that $100.00 happened say 3 times per week...which is not that difficult to do with the right strategy and tools, that would be $300.00 per week which would be $1200 per month.

            Now the rankings that I mentioned have been sticking for months...some even going back to the beginning of this year others even earlier. So let's say the local business owner was me and the SEO person brought me say $1200 per month, but say he only charged me $600.00 per month...I would be quite happy with that ROI.

            Because my business can be advertised in other local markets if the SEO person scaled the campaign to other cities and my profits increased...I think it would be worth it...of course each business is different and a smart SEO guy or girl is going to find out whether or not they can actually help that business.

            Say I decided to fire the SEO guy, but the rankings continued to stick for months and months and I continued to bring in profits(similar to the ones I bring in now) from his work even after he is gone, I think that is something else that has to be taken into account.

            Now with regard to the amount mentioned in the presentation you asked would a business person be willing to pay that significant amount.

            Well I think you make a good point and the Traffic Geyser professional would have to ask many questions about the business etc. Again it would also depend on the type of business, the size of the city or town etc. I should also point out that if the person is using Traffic Geyser alone it will not be as efficient. I think it would be advisable to add other tools.

            So the price-point would have to be set where its profitable to both the business owner and the SEO professional.

            Now another important point or strategy is...is the local SEO person capturing leads for the business owner, setting up a mailing list auto responder and or physical mailing address...what is the lifetime value of those leads to the business owner. Depending on the profession 1 lead could be worth thousands to the business owner very quickly. In other professions these leads can be worth thousands overtime. For Instance I know a local business owner that gets a significant amount of his business leads from an in house SEO guy (although he does ship his products to other places), but he has over 40,000 leads on his list and he brings in about 5 million a year.

            So if I were capturing leads and handing them over to a business owner for life...I would have to take into account the lifetime value of that customer/s to that owner when I am deciding on the fee.


            One who is really good at PPC could even offer the local business PPC services as part of the package or as the whole package.

            Those are just a few of the other considerations that come to mind.

            All said I agree that if you are not improving the Clients bottom line or if you see that you can not provide him value in his/her specific area then you should not rip them off. However, no one can give guarantees. He may spend $1,000 on a PPC campaign and make no profit, or thousands on yellow pages or a T. V. or Radio spot, or even a Newspaper add and make no ROI.
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  • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
    I think that something else you have to look at here is how much a lead is worth to the business.

    If you are doing these services for a local restaurant, you would have to pull in a lot of people to offset the fees you are charging (though there are other services you could provide local restaurants as well, but that's another topic).

    But if you are targeting businesses where one lead can mean hundreds to thousands of dollars over time, that can change the tables a bit.

    Keep in mind, even though its a small amount of people, when someone types in "my town custom home builder", they are seriously looking for that service. Compare this to the ton of money that is spent on stuff like advertisements in the paper, where you just have to hope someone will see your ad that also happens to want your services at that exact moment.

    Matt
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    • Profile picture of the author mrsrp
      Originally Posted by freudianslip27 View Post

      I think that something else you have to look at here is how much a lead is worth to the business.

      If you are doing these services for a local restaurant, you would have to pull in a lot of people to offset the fees you are charging (though there are other services you could provide local restaurants as well, but that's another topic).

      But if you are targeting businesses where one lead can mean hundreds to thousands of dollars over time, that can change the tables a bit.

      Keep in mind, even though its a small amount of people, when someone types in "my town custom home builder", they are seriously looking for that service. Compare this to the ton of money that is spent on stuff like advertisements in the paper, where you just have to hope someone will see your ad that also happens to want your services at that exact moment.

      Matt

      Matt,

      Thanks for the comments. Yes, the lifetime value of lead is a very important consideration.

      However, the issue that hurts a local business relying on SEO for promotion is something completely different.

      Using your example, type the following phrase into Google:

      San Diego custom home builder

      What do you see above the fold? Fourteen companies that can provide this service. You immediately see the 14 custom home builders in the area who've chosen to put their business in the local search (FREE), and in the paid search results.

      Where are the custom home builders who rely on SEO for promotion? They aren't even seen. They are down the page, below the fold.

      Who do you think will get the greatest number of visitors to their site? Those above the fold or those down the page? By far, those above the fold will get the majority of the traffic. Those below the fold will get trickles.

      Next, who is paying more for their position on the page? It's actually the companies that are hiring SEO consultants and they are ending up below the fold. In the presentation, it's suggested that they should pay a few thousand dollars to start and $1,200 to $2,600 each month.

      However, 8 of the competitors are at the top of the page by using the Free Local Search, and other 6 are using Paid search for only about $2.50/ click to be in positions 1-3.

      Does that mean that using PPC is going to be more expensive than the cost of hiring an SEO consultant.

      No, not by far.

      Since there are only a few hundred searches on the phrase "san diego custom home builder" each month, and you would only get a portion of them, your total bill would be just a couple hundred dollars, instead of the $1,200 to $2,600 an SEO person would be charging.

      Let me ask a few questions.

      If you ran the custom home building company, where would you like your ad? At the top or bottom of the page?

      The smartest place to be is at the top of the page and to pay the least amount of money to be there. Neither of these objectives can be produced with SEO.

      SEO works great for products and services that area sold into large geographic areas, where Google doesn't freely insert it's local search results with a nice Google map.

      It's not the fault of Traffic Geyser, Article Marketing, SENuke, or any other SEO method.

      It's just fundamentally easier and more significantly cost effective for a local business to get traffic by using free local search and geo-targeted PPC.

      All the fancy SEO in the world won't get you to the top of the page on these local searches. You'll be left jockying for position way down below the fold, which is much less desirable and much more expensive.

      It's not that SEO is bad. It works great on most product and services that are not geographically limited.

      But for local businesses, it is much less effective and costs a lot more than it needs to.
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  • Profile picture of the author TonyNBJ1961
    I have bought the TG for $2,000 and feel kind of lost! Please help me if I am wrong.

    For that amount of money should they have a forum? I could not find one! But I found where they have a 1 on 1 coach for $247.00 a session. Then you have to pay to have all of the different video and sites entered with ID and Password (100.00)

    Then you have to pay for credits on everything! I have no idea why they would do this to those of us who pay $2,000.00 for all of this. I am looking for a refund Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author JoeCool
      MRSP,

      You bring up many valid points, and from your posts I can tell that you know the local search market quite well.

      It will be interesting to see if anyone that has purchased the TG FirePower training makes a sustainable, long term income from this model.

      Yes, one could go through this training, sell the service to local, high end clients that could afford the proposed initial setup and monthly fees, but if the client starts looking at their ROI after a few months of paying for this "SEO" service, I think they will be pretty disappointed, especially if they have run PPC campaigns and know their ROI there.

      Most high end local businesses, i.e.; chiropractors, dentists, licensed contractors, etc., already have experience marketing online, either through a consultant, or by doing it themselves. They are not going to be fooled by this type of high priced, low result service for too long.

      NO, I'm not going to give away my most profitable niches and have someone go and knock them off.
      The example showing the Kodak zi8 Camera Review is pretty much irrelevant. People are here to ask valid questions about TG FirePower and the results that they can achieve for local businesses. If TG wanted to really show proof of their system at work, they most likely have the staff, and certainly have the tools, to create real time results in a real time local business market without revealing their most "profitable niches".

      TG would have been better off not posting an example in this thread at all than to post something in a completely different International Market that has NO relation to local business SEO and search.


      Best Regards,
      ~ JoeCool

      P.S. I speak from experience here as I have been doing local business consulting, SEO and SEM probably long before TG FirePower was even a twinkle in the product creator's eye.
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  • Profile picture of the author Happyman
    Since purchasing - has anybody got any feedback of the service and elements provided.

    It looks like its comeonline again but it's approx $2500 now
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    Broadcast My Ad

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    • Profile picture of the author reilly3000
      I haven't tried Traffic Geyer Firepower, and based on the hype factor in their videos I don't intend to.

      I do want to say that local organic traffic converts really well. It is much more valuable than national SEO traffic and performs on a different scale. If market samaurai is telling you that there are 5 searches a day for a niche keyword, no SEO in their right mind would put any effort to rank in that keyword. But locally, that traffic means $$.

      If I'm looking for a kodak digital camera on Google, I may buy one in the next 3-6 months from somewhere. If I search for "Santa Monica, CA Emergency Plumber" I am going to pay $340 within the next 2 hours to the first person I find on the serps that appears credible.

      TRUE. Google local cannibalizes search SEO traffic. So- get your clients there too! Its easy to optimize an LBC listing, build citations, and tell your client to get some reviews. Package that with a video and coupon campaign and you've got a great lead gen system for your customer.

      Local PPC does perform great, and Google will be monetizing local more and more and more- but it will never be incredibly profitable as it only adds value to those who jump on it early. There will always be some idiot competitor who bids way high and blows it for everybody (except for Google).

      SEO has more branding impact than PPC- it offers a superior level of credibility to have a site at the top of the organic search results. Having that kind of authority makes traffic convert better and clients happier.

      I know this from the Yellow Pages industry- the largest ads don't necessarily generate the most calls. Smart consumers know that they don't want to pay for the most audacious marketer, their rates will have to be higher. The mid sized ads always performed best in several niches. So too does SEO traffic have more credibility and less of a perceived cost from a consumer perspective (even though it may be WAY more expensive per click than PPC).

      The real challenge with offline is getting your clients to be good at converting their leads. You wouldn't send tons of traffic to a poorly written sales letter- but some clients just have plain ugly web sites and no phone skills. If you call up their main line and get somebody saying "Hello?" you know they won't be very successful no matter how much traffic you send them.
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      Nothing for sale here :)

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  • Profile picture of the author marketingstatic
    I have bought so many offline business building products not made a dime admit I have yet to have the time or team necessary to do all the marketing and advertising. Setting up web pages, auto responders, follow up, calling, local chamber meetings etc... Seems like I must be one of the few people that has a full time Job and is a Dad anymore so I don't see how anyone that doesn't already have days off and or a team can infiltrate in to this very competitive market.
    Point being I was looking at spending more to do this with TG and I am so glad this thread came up. Because there is allot to be said about the methods here and ROI. Everyone wants you to think you can so easily step in and be a player all the sudden and talk about how its so wide open and its really not from what I have seen. Easy that is unless you have a great deal of time or help in implementing some of these terrific ideas.
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    Happy new Year 2019

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  • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
    Yes, the local business directory is really important. You'd be surprised how many businesses aren't actually in there.

    Google fills the directory in the best they can, but often times that is done without the business's actual knowledge.

    One service I provide is getting a business in the directory (I can check beforehand to see if their listing is claimed or not, I've only ran into 2 that were!)

    It seems as though once a business has claimed their listing, and filled in all the information, their ranking goes up.

    Yes, you aren't 100% at google's mercy when it comes to local business results. Take for example a big city with hundreds of restaurants. Many business owners would love to be one of the 10 restaurants. My service works towards getting them in there.

    There are things you can do to increase ranking in the google local business directory, including getting lots of reviews for your business, having your business mentioned elsewhere online, and so forth.

    In terms of getting results for business owners for them being in the organic listings:

    1) If there is decent volume for the term? If so, I've seen that even when I"m not in the local directory, I"m getting some traffic, which for many businesses is more than they got before

    2) You have to factor in longtails. I see my clients getting traffic for all kinds of stuff I didn't even optimize. The point is that I built lots of backlinks and exposure for them, and their traffic increased

    I don't focus on "Mr. business owner, you aren't in the local business directory", I focus on the results that come in.

    I'm not saying that this service is worth $1,000, depending on the market they are in it could be much less. You are certainly correct to say that if the business owner doesn't get a positive return on investment they should can you. I will say that when a business owner pays me a fee, I try to include multiple services, so if one under performs I can focus on others that are doing well. (autoresponder, social media like facebook, etc)

    Matt
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    • Profile picture of the author joerh
      Not sure if this is how it works or not, but what if the #'s from the Google KW tool aren't telling the whole story.

      For instance, if you type in "Colorado spinal decompression," your traffic estimates might look poor. But not everyone in Colorado types that... they might just type in "spinal decompression" and get local traffic that is optimized for Colorado spinal decompression because Google wants to serve it's customers relevant sites. I'm not sure, but if Google doesn't include these numbers in the search count, than it might make the # of searches better. Good enough to charge that kind of $ per month? You would have to do your own tracking to figure that out.

      Also, you have to figure out the traffic you get from other sources... Yahoo, Bing, youtube, etc. Does it all add up to something worth while? Do all the other services done by the SEM company make it worth while... testing conversion rates at all levels of the sales funnel and making changes, running the autoresponder/direct mail follow up, continued backlink strategies, etc.

      Another issue is time. Most companies that are better to work with have a high earning/hour. The cost of lost time working their marketing migh tip the scales towards outsourcing it. If they've spent the time and have the know how, they could get cheap labor overseas. Having "done for me" services deserve an upcharge.

      All that being said, wow that looks expensive. I don't know all the details (which makes my opinion close to worthless), but it's enough to make me explore other options.

      -Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author Amanda_Davis
    This isn't available any more - although they are coming out with an updated package later this month.

    I think some people are confusing Firepower with the standard Traffic Geyser account, though.

    Firepower and the new product are "businesses in a box" with training, resources, etc.

    They INCLUDE a Traffic Geyser membership, but all this does is distribute the videos.
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