Ayman's challange with the The Middleman System

14 years ago

its actually a brand new course and goes way beyond cpa

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Big Jason Henderson of Breakthrough Email Marketing
18+ years of email marketing... Certified Email Marketing Optimization, Landing Page Optimization, Value Proposition Development and Online Testing Specialist by MECLABS

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bcb

14 years ago

Be careful...I purchased on the 3-pay plan. Money was taken from my account. I did not receive any confirmation or other communication.

I have emailed his support desk 3 times in the past 5 days with no response whatsoever. My last email was a request for a refund because I no longer have any trust in them.

Will be going to my bank as soon as it opens tomorrow to dispute the charges on the basis of the 30 day guarantee on the webpage.

I read through the posts from the time of the AC launch and found others experiencing pretty much the same thing...regarding lack of confirmation and lack of support response.

The program may or may not be great....BUT...buyer beware.

bcb

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bcb

14 years ago

As an aside.....I'm sure that I purchased via your link, Big Jason, because I received an autoresponder "Merry Christmas from Aymen" that was signed by you....and a promotion of the 7 Figure Code.

I can't private post on Warrior Forum and your contact page on your homepage did not work.

Since you seem to have the in with Aymen, would love to hear your feedback from my experience here.

bcb

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bcb 14 years ago

Still no response from Aymen's support desk on my request for a refund.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,
bcb
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big-marketing

14 years ago

Originally Posted by bcb

As an aside.....I'm sure that I purchased via your link, Big Jason, because I received an autoresponder "Merry Christmas from Aymen" that was signed by you....and a promotion of the 7 Figure Code.

I can't private post on Warrior Forum and your contact page on your homepage did not work.

Since you seem to have the in with Aymen, would love to hear your feedback from my experience here.

bcb

hey man. you didn't purchase through my link. I just wrote that email. I forwarded your message to aymen though. Looks like dave responded to you today.

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Big Jason Henderson of Breakthrough Email Marketing
18+ years of email marketing... Certified Email Marketing Optimization, Landing Page Optimization, Value Proposition Development and Online Testing Specialist by MECLABS

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bcb 14 years ago

Thank you, big.

Yes, Dave did respond today and was very helpful and apologetic. He verified that my funds were received and sent me a link and password so that I can evaluate the program during the next 2 weeks/until the 30 day trial period is complete. Thank you for passing my info on to him.

I'm a bit surprised by what I found because the membership site he sent me to is indeed the old AC site...not some new site for a "completely" new program, as Aymen had presented in the promotional webinars.

All of the images, coloring, language, etc is AC...not consistent with the images, colors, etc of the advertised Middleman System. There is no new system on the site at this point....just a few recent AC webinars in which Aymen made a comment that he wished people would quit referrring to this new program as AC.

There is no new training posted in the site. The membership site has a tab that says "New Training" and a letter from Aymen titled "New Arbitrage Training Course." I guess the start of having people quit referring to this new program as AC would be to 1) put up the new training...maybe even on it's own membership site and 2) quit referring to it as "The New Arbitrage Training Course on the membership site.

So, it looks to me like all I did was purchase AC a year later. Looks like this will just be the updated AC site and, since it's actually the same site, I imagine that those who purchased AC last year will receive this as an update to AC just as those who purchase the "new" program will receive the old AC as a bonus.

As far as the quality or usefulness of this "new" program, I can't give an opinion because once again, they sold it a good deal before it was ready. Maybe they'll get it up before my 30 days are up. If not, I'm out of there for sure...if so, we'll see what it looks like and give it a fair shake.

Again, thanks for your response.
bcb
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- big-marketing 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bcb
  
  Thank you, big.
  
  Yes, Dave did respond today and was very helpful and apologetic. He
  bcb
  
  cool. since he and others are back from the holidays, that is the place to get support with any questions, etc.
  
  as you say, it is a brand new course with a $1997 course as a bonus.
  
  rather than have two different member areas, there is one.
  
  not sure why you wouldn't want to start ac before middleman starts. mike filsaime created an entirely new department in his company based on it with results from students like this.
  
  plus you'll do way better with middleman if you start taking ac first. at least do the mindset recordings. at two different places, students told me those two webinars were worth the entire price.
  
  hth
  big jason
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  Big Jason Henderson of Breakthrough Email Marketing
  18+ years of email marketing... Certified Email Marketing Optimization, Landing Page Optimization, Value Proposition Development and Online Testing Specialist by MECLABS
  
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  bcb 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by big-marketing
  
  as you say, it is a brand new course with a $1997 course as a bonus.
  
  Now there's an interesting marketing "spin" on what I actually said.
  
  Originally Posted by big-marketing
  
  not sure why you wouldn't want to start ac before middleman starts. big jason
  
  In a word, TRUST. Actually lack thereof.
  
  I put in the request for my refund.
  
  bcb
  
  Thanks
  
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  acepro 14 years ago
  
  I would steer clear of this company. I purchased AC last year and all I had was problems with them. Firstly they charged my credit card twice and despite several emails it took them a couple of weeks before they acknowledged the error. They said that they would issue a refund and when I didn't see arrive within the 30 day period I cancelled. Guess what! No refund again!
  When I challenged them they said that their system couldn't handle refunds on Amex cards! I had to report them to my CC company as fraudulent and my CC company refunded me after a couple of months.
  I rest my case.
  
  Thanks
  
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Steve Ranger

14 years ago

If anyone finds out anything about this could
they post.. sounds interesting if it goes further
than just CPA.

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herrick

14 years ago

hey did the support team ever respond to your requests?

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1 reply

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bcb 14 years ago

Originally Posted by herrick

hey did the support team ever respond to your requests?

Still not a word. I wrote AGAIN today.

Also, the sales page is no longer up. There is a notice that the program is not open. I filled out the waiting list form to see what would happen.

Was taken to a thank-you page...and then no confirmation email arrived.

Shesh....
bcb
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- bcb 14 years ago
  
  Update:
  
  Their contact page provides customer service contact information at 2 different email addresses. 1 at ArbitrageConspiracy and the other at MiddlemanSystem.
  
  I was receiving no response at all from the second one, so today I wrote to the other one. At least I received an automated reply from the ArbitrageConspiracy addresss. I also left a message on their phone recorder.
  
  Hopefully with the holidays being done, they'll begin to respond to these issues.
  bcb
  
  Thanks
  
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bcb

14 years ago

There were apparently a lot of these types of problems with the AC launch last year. Unfortunately, I didn't do my research until AFTER hitting the purchase button. The experiences I've read online since then....like your experience...reflect what my experience has been.

Once I actually made contact with Dave from their customer service, he was very helpful. So now I have the promise of a refund (MC rather than Amex, so that excuse is out.) I've got all of the conversations documented so I can dispute with my credit card company if the refund is not handled promptly. I will report back if and when the refund is applied.

I'm sure Aymen is brilliant with CPA, but he certainly appears to have not learned anything from the errors of last year's launch. One time impulse actions by CPA are a completely different thing than developing trust with a market that you hope to serve on an ongoing basis.

The Cluetrain was right. Now that the little guy has access to information and can research, your reputation and past history will indeed come back to haunt you or help you.

bcb

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robertino

14 years ago

The reason I am posting here again in a long time is because my stats show visitors to some of my sites for the keywords/phrases "warriorforum aymen middleman".

I thought "Warrior" means to fight and never give up but more and more losers place unfounded complains here at the "Warrior Forum". So here is my two cents on the subject.

BCB- you did the right thing to ask for a refund because with that kind of attitude you would not have made it anyways. It took me over 27 campaigns till I found a profitable one to scale up and cash in. The second profitable campaign came in with the second batch of 6 campaigns only and out of 126 campaigns that I put up in first 40 days I ended up with 9 campaigns which perform well 5 of them exceptionally well and cash is pouring in.

BUT It does take an awful amount of work, perseverance, discipline and dedication BUT most of all a healthy BS (Belief system) to keep you trying and not giving up. Capishe?

Now, for all the losers out there I say this: STOP complaining and focus on success, take action on tested methods like Arbitrage Conspiracy and Middleman System. Stop buying "gurus" worthless e-Books and crappy systems they put out because all they can do is produce beautiful graphics ( out sourced) and psychologically make you buy through their mind manipulative sale copy. That is how they got rich in the first place. PERIOD.

Aymen and now the New Affiliate Manager Big Jason have an intact reputation and a Good track record with users. Sure there are always the losers and a few jealous "Gurus" who spread disinformation and paint a different story BUT the focus should be on disciplining yourself to GO through and Study the Valuable Material put out by Aymen and IMPLEMENT it. If you get stuck just ask for support and keep moving forward.

Finally, it had to come someone from outside North America to teach us Good Business Practices and Work Ethics because the whole IM is full of scams and scam artists aka "Gurus" .Period.
As I always say Study, Apply and Profit.

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bcb

14 years ago

Welcome to the conversation Robertino.

You've certainly added a twist to the conversation that was not here before and your comments are welcome.

Originally Posted by robertino

I thought "Warrior" means to fight and never give up

Interesting comment, Robertino. So, can I assume from this that you perceive that being a warrior means running around fighting every battle that conceivably exists?

Or would it be okay to be a warrior and also apply a bit of wisdom by investigating and evaluating potential battles first and then selecting the battles that appear to be appropriate and worthy of that individual's energy at that time?

Originally Posted by robertino

more and more losers place unfounded complains here at the "Warrior Forum".

There's a name for this type of logic/argument in debate, but it doesn't come to me at the moment. Are you referring to "unfounded complaints" in this particular thread? Or are you attempting to throw the FACTS included in this thread into the same light as "unfounded complaints" that you read somewhere else?

Maybe I failed in my attempt to report only the facts. Would you please be kind enough to point out to me any complaints on this thread that you perceive as being "unfounded"?

I attempted to be very clear throughout that I was only reporting the facts as they occurred so that others can consider that information for their future decisions. I was not in any way commenting on the value or lack thereof of the underlying product and I believe that I stated that fact. If I failed in that attempt and you can point out those failures to me, I would be more than happy to go back and edit my comments so that no "unfounded comments" are included.

My comments were related to clear administrative failures and had nothing to do with the value of the product. My observation is that you are reacting emotionally to something that you perceive as an attack...maybe because you have a vested financial interest in it...I don't know. (It would be interesting to know if you are by chance an affiliate with a financial interest in having only nice things said about it.) Could something like that be coloring your comments? Just a thought.

Originally Posted by robertino

BCB- you did the right thing to ask for a refund because with that kind of attitude you would not have made it anyways.

So, in your opinion, having the good sense to cut your losses when the seller is clearly not coming through with their promises from the very beginning is a character flaw?

If you were buying a house and the seller continually did not show up for the closing and then wouldn't let you see the house before closing, but you put down a deposit. Then he finally showed up at the closing and said "Pay me now and the house will be ready in a few months....and it will be really great...I promise!"

Would you follow through with the sale? Or would you have the common sense to read the writing on the wall and get your deposit back NOW? Your comments about my character are a complete red herring and you know it. This particular conversation has not been about the usefulness of Aymen's teachings or whether hard work can or cannot make them work.

Personally, I have no doubt that they can work....and so can a million other things. I applaud you for your fortitude and the success that you have achieved utilizing Aymen's teachings. BUT that has absolutely nothing to do with what this thread has been about. Great fodder for your sales page, but not valuable to this discussion. "Capishe?"

Originally Posted by robertino

Aymen and now the New Affiliate Manager Big Jason

mmmmmmmmmm....now THAT brings some clarity to the picture.

Thanks for your contributions.

bcb

PS...

Originally Posted by robertino

Finally, it had to come someone from outside North America to teach us Good Business Practices and Work Ethics because the whole IM is full of scams and scam artists aka "Gurus" .Period.
As I always say Study, Apply and Profit.

I haven't lived in North America for many years. I've lived in several countries and have not seen any magic from any particular country.

Thanks

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robertino

14 years ago

In addition to my first post:

1. You need to treat this as a Business not as a hobby. Meaning your time is spent on learning the system and implementing it. This has to become your first priority and dedicate all your time and effort to it to produce like a business does.
2. You need to eat breath and dream CPA business and burn all your bridges to produce.
3. Unsubscribe from all "Gurus" email lists (very damaging to you and your focus if you do not)
4. Finally make a DAILY schedule to log in Your CPA network and search for CPA Offers, test them with $20 and find the good ones and ramp the ones that produce up.
5. Build that Business as it is the only source of income and you will get results.

No need to thank me!

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bcb 14 years ago

Originally Posted by robertino

In addition to my first post:

All great advice...and I imagine that there is an appropriate place on the Warrior Forum to voice them.

Now, do you have any comments that actually apply to the discussion on this particular thread?
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robertino

14 years ago

BCB, Thank you for your detailed comment and No! I did not use character assassination techniques... LOL.

Look, without going into analysis paralysis, you are right, I did not refer specifically to you through this post and perhaps was unfair BUT fact remains too many out there are purchasing high end products (some actually work) BUT then they do not take action and implement what the course is teaching to actually see results and scream "scam" You Did Not!

You are right again and I assume, not sure, but your purchase was made during the holidays therefore there was no one around to reply and you lost patience. Am I correct here?

As to the warrior aspect of it, I simply implied the notion of trying everything possible before giving up. In your case, you perhaps lost trust because your email was not answered and therefore all the following actions you took. I'd say a bit of EGO problem...

Moving on...

To sum it up again you are right. You did refer to administrative failure and not commented on the feasibility of the Middleman System. My bad.

Am I promoting Middleman System? You bet. I only promote what I actually bought and produces results. Middleman System former Arbitrage Conspiracy is one of the FEW systems out there that can actually make one EXTREMELY RICH.

What I meant about Aymen coming from outside North America teaching us Good Business Practices is that here in Canada and the US we are always taught Business Ethics BUT few apply them especially in the IM (Internet Marketing Community). It still looks like the "wild-west" where Cowboys are ruling... Ok perhaps I am exaggerating but facts speak louder...

If I missed any of your points please let me know.
Best of luck to you and Happy New Year!

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bcb 14 years ago

Hey robertino,

Trust has to be earned...giving trust before it is earned seems a bit naive to me.

I'll leave your personal comment about your interpretation of my ego alone, with the exception to say that you can always tell who has no facts on their side.....(hint....it's the person who has to revert to making personal comments, as if their personal interpretations added some value to the conversation.) But hey, if that's all you got...

There are many great teachers from which to learn this information. Aymen is one of many. But when a buyer is purchasing, he/she would be wise IMO to evaluate the total package...including administrative issues...among the various offerings and make the overall best choice for them.

Originally Posted by robertino

...I assume, not sure, but your purchase was made during the holidays therefore there was no one around to reply and you lost patience. Am I correct here?

Well, I hate to bother you again with the actual FACTS, but since you asked....

(You might want to take a deep breath and lay down your affiliate glasses so you can actually see the facts a bit more clearly.)

FACT: Big name marketer voluntarily elected to launch just before the holidays.

FACT: Such Big name marketer recruited other such big names....Mark Victor Hansen and Brian Tracy to participate in promotional webinars in mid to late December.

FACT: Same big name marketer experienced both administrative problems and did not have course material ready for a similar launch in the prior year at the same time of year.

FACT: Such big name marketer was VERY CLEAR in both the sales page and in the promotional webinars that this launch was NOT an updated version of the AC, but that the AC would just be included as a bonus to those purchasing this completely new program.

FACT: Sales/presentation materials utilized the 30 day money back guarantee as an incentive to purchase and use THE NEW PROGRAM for 30 days with the assurance that you would receive your money back without question if it did not meet expectations.

FACT: I competed the purchase and my credit card was immediately charged. However, I was NOT taken to a page with any further information or downloads.

FACT: I did NOT receive any type of confirmation email.

FACT: I did not receive any automated verification or live reply to my followup emails for several days.

FACT: When customer service did reply, they were very kind. They acknowledged their error and immediately sent me access information for the membership site.

FACT: The membership site turned out to be in reality the AC membership site with a promise of future new training. Obviously, that new training could NOT be evaluated during the 30 day trial period because it was not there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FACT: Upon my notification of request for refund, my access to the membership site was taken away within minutes.

FACT: It's been several days and the little electrons that have to cross the ocean to place funds back in my credit card seem to be having more trouble swimming this direction than they had in going that direction after I hit Purchase. Funny thing about those ocean currents and how they impact electrons.

Originally Posted by robertino

Am I promoting Middleman System? You bet. I only promote what I actually bought and produces results.

Robertino, you are a great source of new and interesting information!!!!

Surely you're not telling me that Dave from AC customer service lied to me when he said:

"The new content from Aymen will be available soon."

So you bought it and produced results with it BEFORE it is available??? Do tell!!!!!!!!!!!!

bcb
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robertino

14 years ago

bcb,

I purchased Arbitrage Conspiracy (AC) in December of 2008. Middleman System if Free for all AC Members.

"Soon" is a relative term and there is no specific date Capishe? LOL

You are a very talented writer and hope one day you'll find the perfect system.

Cheers!

Thanks
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bcb 14 years ago

Originally Posted by robertino

Capishe?

Assolutamente, robertino. Capisco abastanza. Hai chiarificato tante cose.

Grazie mille.
A dopo,
bcb
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robertino

14 years ago

Hey bcb,

Thanks! You are too kind!

No problemo;-) I did not know that Google can translate that well. LOL
You know, I truly believe that every bad thing leads to a good one. In some cases more then one ...

Cheers to You and Family -Keep in Touch !

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bcb 14 years ago

I really appreciate the offer, robertino.

But I'm not much of a "program" guy overall. Everything I've seen from Amish is great, but the mere mention of the word Magic Bullet already has be running in the opposite direction.

I'm pretty much of a desciple of Ken McCarthy, Perry Marshall and Glenn Livingston...attempting to learn the underlying fundamentals of direct marketing on the internet and slowly apply them rather than shooting for a magic program of any kind.

All the best to you. I truly do appreciate your openness and willingness to discuss. I think we all win with frank and open discussion.

I'm sure we'll see each other around!

Ciao,
bcb
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bcb

14 years ago

Ten days have passed since I requested a refund and such request was acknowledged by Dave, in customer service at the arbitrage conspiracy.

Credit has not been made to my card as of today.

I wrote a formal request that I am sending today by registered mail to the published London address and am copying by email to Dave in customer service.

25 years ago, it took all of 24 hours to process a refund because we had to wait for the daily batch to process. I'm pretty sure that it can be done at least that quickly today. If I'm incorrect, I'm open to correction by someone who is better informed on this particular topic.

bcb

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beksworld

14 years ago

Do they have software for automating everything....

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bcb 14 years ago

Originally Posted by beksworld

Do they have software for automating everything....

Are you living in the belief system that all you have to do is punch a button and collect the cash?

If so, puchase any program and you'll be disappointed with each and every one equally. All the best for coming to reality.

bcb
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- bcb 14 years ago
  
  NOTICE:
  
  Funds arrived in my account today.
  
  All the best to everyone's choices regarding this product.
  
  Over and out!
  
  bcb
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  Jeff Noel 14 years ago
  
  Just wondering when the Middleman system is going to be released. There have been no new trainings on the site.
  
  How many people have signed up and have the program?
  
  Thanks
  
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Ayman's challange with the The Middleman System

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