by A Bary
86 replies
I started my business with Flippa few months ago, and I made a real success in this short period, successfully sold 3 listings out of 4 for an excellent margin of profit, got an excellent feedback from buyers, and everything was incredible..

Until I made my awful discovery..

It happened when I got a bid on a new listing, I wanted a quick sale so I closed the sale for the bidder..

I didn't give much care to the fact that he was a new user who just signed up, I always believed that I am protected by Flippa's policies..

Long story short, I contacted the buyer to end the sale, and I was surprised by his request to initiate the domain transfer before he pay!!

I told him that this is not how things go there, and he has to pay first, at the end, it's logic, he can reverse a PayPal payment, but I can't reverse a domain transfer..

He didn't respond, and I asked him to tell me if he is going for the sale or I shall relist the domain, and as I didn't receive any reply I warned him that I will report the situation to Flippa if I didn't get a clear response..

Guess what he did?

He insulted me, he called me a jack**s among other insults!!!

Of course, I immediately reported this to Flippa , expecting an aggressive reaction from them..

That's when the fun begun..

After filling a dispute, and contacting the support, I got a funny message from the general manager...

He was wisely telling me that I have to tolerate a little rude language to do business

And I am just overreacting...

I thought it wasn't clear for him, so I replied to him again, explaining the situation more, and wondering what kind of business that requires tolerating rude language..and I was expecting an immediate ban for this user or at least a warning for his attitude.

He told me that they don't ban users for this:confused::confused: and I need to complete the sale to avoid black shadows on my account!!

I told him clearly that I won't do business with this person, and they need to act according to this....

I received a pm from a user (I now suspect to be a Flippa rep.) asking about the price of the domain,

I told him that the domain is under dispute, and if the dispute is ended and the domain is relisted, I'll sell it to him for the same winning auction price...

Guess what??

Flippa accused me for violating terms by making private offers

Finally, I contacted them that this is a silly situation, and I am going to take aggressive official actions against them if they didn't solve the situation properly and refund the $80 I wasted with this listing, that was ruined by a bonehead they are mysteriously trying to protect!!


What's funny is, they leave the buyer in question freely placing bids, while I was stuck with the situation..

And what's more funny is that, after few days, the same buyer caused a similar problem to another seller, who left a deeply negative feedback about him, warning other sellers from dealing with this buyer...

till the moment, Flippa didn't take any action, and the situation is the same (it has been nearly 2 weeks now)

Now, I didn't post this to attack Flippa, I am planning to take more effective and official actions regarding this issue...

I posted this to warn you about the nature of this site..

THEY DON'T RUN A BUSINESS, THEY ARE JUST RUNNING A PLATFORM to put buyers and sellers in contact...

They won't help you with any problem like mine, or any issue raised regarding a sale.

Much worse, if you're scammed for your money or your site, they stated clearly that it's not their problem (read their terms clearly) which makes this place a really high risk place to do business...

I am looking forward for your input about this story, and any suggestions for better reliable alternatives for this site, that run a real business..


(Note for Moderators, I hope this is not considered as a bash, this is a real story that I posted here to warn all other members, and this post isn't different from those posts addressing similar business problems with other sites like Google and EZA)
#business #flippa #place #potential #risk
  • Profile picture of the author pearsonbrown
    (You're a well-respected poster here and I don't see any sign of your bashing individuals ;-) )

    I also think it was right to insist on payment before transferring the domain. That's how it's always happened when I've used Flippa.

    But you don't seem to have used Flippa for the sale. It looks like you took down your site and tried to sell privately. If that was the case, Flippa is perfectly correct to ignore you. They have a system - you have to follow the system.

    What you should have done IMHO, once you agreed a price, is to have set a 'buy me now' price at the agreed amount and completed the whole transaction within the Flippa system.

    Regards,

    Pearson
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
      Originally Posted by pearsonbrown View Post

      (You're a well-respected poster here and I don't see any sign of your bashing individuals ;-) )

      I also think it was right to insist on payment before transferring the domain. That's how it's always happened when I've used Flippa.

      But you don't seem to have used Flippa for the sale. It looks like you took down your site and tried to sell privately. If that was the case, Flippa is perfectly correct to ignore you. They have a system - you have to follow the system.

      What you should have done IMHO, once you agreed a price, is to have set a 'buy me now' price at the agreed amount and completed the whole transaction within the Flippa system.

      Regards,

      Pearson
      Thanks for the reply, but it seems something wasn't clear for you in my post


      I told him that the domain is under dispute, and if the dispute is ended and the domain is relisted, I'll sell it to him for the same winning auction price...

      Guess what??

      Flippa accused me for violating terms by making private offers

      I didn't take it privately, I told the user to wait until the dispute ends, and buy the domain after relisitng it, what terms are broken here??

      I believe it was just a justification for their misjudgment from the beginning
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  • Profile picture of the author Tajine
    Appreciate the post goldmind123

    Unlike you, I have been a buyer of a site listed on Flippa.

    I looked at many websites just as a matter of interest & finally bought one because the figures looked credible.

    However so far I feel that I didn't really get what I believed I was paying for, but at the end of the day, so to speak, I really have no-one else but my self to blame for my predicament.

    My reasoning is that I didn't really pay enough due diligence, before placing my winning bid. That's my perceived problem but, in relation to your experience, the problem may have been lessened if Flippa required more accountability from a lister.

    As you commendably state, THEY ARE JUST RUNNING A PLATFORM to put buyers & sellers in contact.

    In your case I believe you were quite correct in standing your ground regards the domain transfer and as long as that was clearly stated as the way the transaction would progress in your listing, the buyer had no right to insult you.

    Unfortunately assumptions about other parties abilities to act in good faith does one no good, so if you weren't clear about payment protocols in the listing you may have left yourself vulnerable to the sort of poor social etiquette that came your way.

    I think we both know who the real jack**s is but if jack was willing to pay as per your instructions, I'd take the money & run.

    Flippa appears to be showing double standards in your case and it is only right & fair that you shine a light on their behaviour. There are after all, other places to sell websites. That 'bay site and a certain "Forum" are just a couple of places that spring to mind.

    Better luck next time? There's an old saying that might apply here.

    "No good deed goes unpunished"
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
      Originally Posted by Tajine View Post

      Appreciate the post goldmind123

      Unfortunately assumptions about other parties abilities to act in good faith does one no good, so if you weren't clear about payment protocols in the listing you may have left yourself vulnerable to the sort of poor social etiquette that came your way.
      The payment terms should be a common understanding, it's well known on Flippa that payment goes first, not the domain transfer, so I never stated this on any listing, it's (by default) a standard practice...

      You know what really pissed me off?

      When you run such a site, and you got an amateur buyer who caused problems to not one but 2 established sellers on your site who have already did business on your site and received excellent feedback..

      What will be your reaction?

      For me, it shouldn't take a second thought,

      And what terms and policies for a business site that doesn't enforce the users to communicate with other parties with respect and manner??

      If a member here on the WF insults others, he/she gets banned immediately, and this is just a public forum,

      Then what about a site that deals with business and money?

      I couldn't get it really...
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    • Profile picture of the author theemperor
      Originally Posted by Tajine View Post

      Appreciate the post goldmind123

      However so far I feel that I didn't really get what I believed I was paying for, but at the end of the day, so to speak, I really have no-one else but my self to blame for my predicament.
      I had the same experience.

      Earning on the site I purchased carried on for 14 days then suddenly died, which I can only assume means the guys the seller was paying to click in the Google ads stopped after 14 days once he had his money so he could run! Ironically the same guy's trust score when to negative 9 because he failed to pay hes fees to Flippa, and he is kicked out. But no doubt he could reapply under a different name.

      With so many con artists and bad sites on Flippa it makes it a hard job finding the good stuff, the risk factor for small sites becomes way too high and it becomes unprofitable to flip sites if you have to accept say a 30% chance of being ripped off.

      I am happy to sell on Flippa for now, bearing in mind I may be swore at and lose cred rating if I decide not to sell to an idiot who wants me to transfer the domain first.

      But I am no longer buying. I think Flippa attracts people looking to make a quick dishonest buck at other people's expense. I'm fed up of dealing with the riff-raff and would rather just aquire the skills to create a great profitable site from scratch.
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  • Profile picture of the author CesarGalano
    It's crazy.
    Some people out there wants first the domain before pay!

    I remember that once I've listed one domain for auction on namepros.The winner sended me a p.m telling me that I should first push the domain to his account and only then he would pay.
    I told him in a polite manner that in domain name business ALWAYS buyer pay first.

    Do you know what happened next?

    He just insulted me!!

    So sad mastermind123,I know. But unfortunately there's still some rude people like this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ruth P
    Well, you know you did the right thing about that buyer, and I wouldn't argue that the payment needs to be made FIRST and I too would not do business with someone who treated me like that.

    In fact, I have seen other circumstances where Flippa have been quite lenient on people who seem to do even worse than that. However, I can understand Flippa's side to some degree.

    It must be very hard to mediate when it comes to these issues. Flippa are still finding their feet, at least that's how it seems to me, and are trying to find better ways of doing things. For sellers like me who have sold quite a few, they are taking on suggestions about how to make things run better (in a private power seller forum) - and their responses to some of our suggestions make me realise just how complicated it can be to get involved in these disputes.

    I have sold a lot of sites there (over 40 listings) and fortunately I have never come across a buyer like that. I did have a problem once, but fortunately it was cleared up quickly. So I just thought I would add that in in case you are worried that all the buyers there are like that.

    Anyway, in short I totally agree that you were right, but if you want to continue selling there I hope it won't put you off, as it's a great place to sell

    ~Ruth
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    • Profile picture of the author jzitzelberger
      That's really unfortunate. I just got started with Flippa and this is NOT something that I would've expected.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jamie Lewis
        My advice to you would be to not get so emotionally involved in things, cancel the listing and relist it. It's simple. Who cares if someone "insults you." Move on & relist.
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        • Profile picture of the author pappyy3
          IMO - You have done all the right things, there's just no pleasing some people.

          Never assume that a buyer has the same understanding and expectations as you.

          My advice to anyone selling anything on any site, is to make terms of payment cystal clear (Spell it out) on your sales listings.

          In your case, something like "Domain name will be trasferred to buyer upon confirmed payment" , or

          for High ticket domain names - offer an Escrow service to provide protection to both parties.
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          • Profile picture of the author A Bary
            Update :

            Great news guys..

            Flippa has just decided to ban ME!!

            Yes..after their fairy investigation, they decided to:

            -Ban me..they don't want my business any more..

            -Leave the cute kid to insult and hurt the business of more people.

            And what's funny is:

            -First, they said that the pm offer was the reason to close the dispute for the buyer's favor..

            -Second, they said my problem was putting unreasonable demand on the buyer...

            -Now, the problem is my bad communications with their GM (asking for my rights and proper compensation for the situation was considered as bad communications...)


            They are upset to publicize the situation here

            Seriously guys, the only take from this experience is that:

            -This site is run by unprofessional people..
            -They don't know what the real business is...
            -The only reason this site is going on until now is the professional business practice of the sellers and buyers, and it has nothing to do with the qualifications of the site itself or those who run it.

            -You need to be extremely careful if you decide to do business there, you're on your own..if you (and you will someday) go through any trouble, the jokers on the site won't help, and you have to be ready for insult, loss or being scammed...

            Warriors: just be careful
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        • Profile picture of the author remotedb
          Originally Posted by Jamie Lewis View Post

          My advice to you would be to not get so emotionally involved in things, cancel the listing and relist it. It's simple. Who cares if someone "insults you." Move on & relist.
          It's not that simple, it cost him $80 to list and sell it. It's kind of ridiculous to ask someone to take an $80 loss and not get emotional about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Goulet
    Thank you for this post.

    I've been reading the facts and Q&A at their site and was about to put up my first listing today. I have about 40 websites I'm going to put up for auction so you probably saved me some aggravation. I'm now looking for other options. I too believe customer support is critical.
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  • Profile picture of the author NK
    That's just really sad. It's obvious that you will only deliver once payment has been received. Flippa seems to be more concerned about buyers than sellers. I guess they take pride in being able to "help" sell more than half the sites listed in Flippa, but after reading this I wonder just how many of those sites sold ended up exactly like this...
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Wow. Guess we need to come up with our OWN buy/sell auction site eh? Wonder if this dude would get up to the cash in the grocery and say "I'll take this now and pay you Tuesday?" Some people. And the response from Flippa is beyond unprofessional. If you put up a service like this with what they charge, you really need to properly police it.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonDevans
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Jamie Lewis
      I am actually very disappointed in Flippa for banning you. I do understand it is their right as stated in the terms but it does show the character of the people behind it. I doubt you did or said anything vulgar to the peron you were speaking to, so thats bit harsh regardless of however abrasive you were to the other user.
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      • Profile picture of the author pappyy3
        Flippa sound like they've "Flipped out"
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        Tonster

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  • Profile picture of the author InternetM39482
    Wow, that sucks. Pretty unprofessional from Flippa's side.

    I don't know if this might help but you can try contacting View Profile: FlippaLuke on the WF. He, I think, is related to Flippa (his profile says so!)
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
      Originally Posted by Swastik View Post

      Wow, that sucks. Pretty unprofessional from Flippa's side.

      I don't know if this might help but you can try contacting View Profile: FlippaLuke on the WF. He, I think, is related to Flippa (his profile says so!)
      Thanks, I know this guy is from Flippa, but I don't need help from them anymore, actually, I decided earlier to stop doing business on this site, but this ban will encourage me to take further step in reporting this site and their business practice..

      In such a situation, they expect sellers to devalue a $50-$60 loss in listing fees and move on without causing any trouble to not harm his chances with them..

      Indeed, I consider this to be a blackmail "you either forget the money you lost and forget any insult or bad practice you face or we'll ban you and you'll never be able to do business again here"

      But, I don't care..

      I'll walk this to the end with them
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      • Profile picture of the author Jamie Lewis
        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

        Thanks, I know this guy is from Flippa, but I don't need help from them anymore, actually, I decided earlier to stop doing business on this site, but this ban will encourage me to take further step in reporting this site and their business practice..

        In such a situation, they expect sellers to devalue a $50-$60 loss in listing fees and move on without causing any trouble to not harm his chances with them..

        Indeed, I consider this to be a blackmail "you either forget the money you lost and forget any insult or bad practice you face or we'll ban you and you'll never be able to do business again here"

        But, I don't care..

        I'll walk this to the end with them


        Yeah Ebay works just as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author jempub
    Hey Warriors. I've used Flippa as a buyer and the one big
    problem is see is listing for crappy plr products that you
    can get for $2.99 and have 40-70 copies found via copyscape.

    And these people have a starting bid of $150.00 and I've
    actually seen people placing bids this high.

    You need to be careful.

    Check out the websites/domains/blogs thoroughly before
    you bid.

    Talk soon,
    Gary
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  • Profile picture of the author PrincessPeach
    WOW.. Thanks for sharing... I have 20-30 sites that I was going to start selling next month on Flippa. I definitely have to be more careful now before I post.

    It's a shame there is no competition out there so they are free to do and act as they please. Someone needs to make a better flippa ASAP! Monopoly's suck.
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    • Profile picture of the author rg0205
      Originally Posted by PrincessPeach View Post

      WOW.. Thanks for sharing... I have 20-30 sites that I was going to start selling next month on Flippa. I definitely have to be more careful now before I post.

      It's a shame there is no competition out there so they are free to do and act as they please. Someone needs to make a better flippa ASAP! Monopoly's suck.
      Sucks for the people who use them, all profit for those who monopolize.

      There are other flipping sites you can get use but seems like quite a bit of people know flippa for selling sites.

      Some would suggest DP but well, to each his own i guess :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author amoeba
    this is a very common thing..often some noob or competitor bid on your listing without any intentions of buying..they ll ask you all heck of questions and wont bother to reply yours,i had a listing where someone bidded above par for a very basic niche site,,flippa suspended my auction without any warning????? i had really bad time during my first couple of listing..but then i learnt it hard way..
    what i would suggest is its a good business, dont give up,,try to sort out things with them,,if not register with different name,,learn n move on..
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  • Profile picture of the author rg0205
    flippa doesnt even protect the buyer for whatever cause/reason.

    if something happens, the only thing they can really do is ban the merchant but that doesnt keep the merchant from opening a new account.

    and with duplicate content, well, most noobs dont realize this. a lot of PLR etc, etc, articles already on websites, regardless of bookmarking, etc, doesnt really hold substance but they do give merchants a flip for a 100 bucks a pop or more. sad.
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  • Profile picture of the author nowgifts
    Hi
    Sorry to hear about you dilema, however I have no axa to grind here, but from the perspective of this type of listing platform they need to give confidence to buyers as a priorty, since it is the buyers that are the driving force of all businesses. This is not to say that they treated you fairly in your dispute or that buyer should be allowed to be rude to sellers.
    Also you need to be aware as a seller when you trade on these listing type platform sites that you are often at the mercy of the money transfer company since they have all your bank and card details and usually they request debit facilities to deposit or remove funds to your account at their request.
    What this means in practices is that if a seller is in dispute with a buyer, (even if the buyer has paid you,) if the money transfer company sides with the buyer, they can call on your account and refund the money to the buyer and there would be nothing you could do to stop it. They can do this even against your wishes.
    I have never used Flippa however on Ebay with paypal there is a feature which is "Buy it now" with immediate Paypal payment, this means that the listing stays up until the buyer has paid, so if another buyers comes along in the meantime since it is still listed and can purchase it instead - first paid first served. See if Flippa has this facility.
    Seller beware of the double wammy - you lose the sale and the money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shane Hale
    Wow I got a site listed on there now. I hope I don't run into the same sort of problem. =(
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  • Profile picture of the author TJComer02
    Wanna hear what happened to me with flippa? Basically I went ahead and started to set up one of my older sites to sell. I paid, and as I went through the process, flippa told me I had to take some html and add it to my website so they can confirm i own the site. It had a message telling me they would wait for me to do this. At this time I had a TON of other sites I was setting up, so i didn't check back for like two or three days. Guess What? The auction had ended on my site with no winner! I paid for a premium listing and all that jazz, and they ran my site after they told me i had to enter the html in my site before the listing could start. What a joke
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  • Profile picture of the author pearsonbrown
    TJ Cromer,

    Why would the auction end after 'two or three days' unless you'd set it up that way? It defaults to 30 days, doesn't it?

    What difference did it make that it started up earlier than you thought?

    In my (good) experience with Flippa, you need to let auctions run at least a week.

    Pearson
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  • Profile picture of the author kbs
    I totally agree w/ your actions against Filppa. Although I would love to do business w/ say a car dealership the "Flippa" way....get the car first and pay for it second.
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  • Profile picture of the author FlippaLuke
    Hi Everyone,

    I'd like to address a few of the issues that have been brought up in regards to Flippa.

    Firstly, in regards to goldmind123's initial post we have addressed this issue privately so I won't be commenting on that situation. Needless to say, we take every dispute on it's own merits and act accordingly.

    I would however like to address some of the other issues brought up in this thread in regards to Flippa.

    We are in the process of putting more measures in place to protect sellers. Our developers are hard at work integrating Escrow and we hope to release this functionality in the coming weeks.

    In regards to domain ownership verification, we've made it even easier to verify your domain ownership with the recent addition of meta tag verification. We will also be updating the listing process to ensure auctions don't start until your domain has been verified.

    We really are striving to make Flippa the safest and fairest marketplace for trading websites and domains, so thanks for all your feedback.
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  • Profile picture of the author builder
    It's time for Allen to create a new project. Warrior Trader.
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  • Profile picture of the author askloz
    Crikey! What was the name of the user who caused all this problems? so we can keep an eye out. If you can't post the name publicly, can you PM me the name of the user cos I got a bunch of sites to sell and was told that flippa was a good place to sell sites.

    Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Slutzkin
      I think it's time for me to weigh in here. I'm the GM of Flippa and I've dealt directly with goldmind123. He was asked to leave the site because he presented ongoing problems in his dealings with buyers, including in this case, where he was unarguably wrong.

      I won't apologise for attempting to protect our users from undesirable situations by removing users who cause those situations. I want to emphasise that there was no problem with the buyer in this case. Here's what happened - this was the straw that broke the camel's back:

      - goldmind123 found a buyer for his domain.

      - They entered the completion phase of the sale and were communicating amicably.

      - After a few messages, the buyer said "Once the domain transfer has been initiated I'll send the payment over."

      - goldmind123 didn't like this, and lied directly to the user in his reply.

      - He then sent four messages in the next thirty-six minutes, culminating in a threat to report the buyer to Flippa Support if he didn't respond.

      - The buyer wasn't happy with the short time that goldmind123 had given him to reply and responded angrily, forty-eight minutes after the seller's first reply to him, saying that he was at lunch, and using the word "ass" and the word "jackass".

      In case that's unclear, let me summarise. goldmind123 gave the buyer just thirty-six minutes to reply to him before threatening him with serious consequences.

      goldmind123 then filed a support request complaining about bad language, which was escalated to me. I reviewed the communication and deemed that the buyer had performed reasonably and that goldmind123 had been unreasonable in this situation.

      I also found that he had directly lied to the buyer by stating that Flippa has "access to my PayPal account and Bank account and can charge your money back if I didn't complete the transfer". This is categorically untrue, as anyone who's used Flippa knows.

      Because of these two indiscretions, and the seller's history, I then made the decision that goldmind123 was not a desirable member of the Flippa community - we try our hardest to remove those who do business unprofessionally, for the protection of our users. He was asked to agree that he would not transact on Flippa again. In return for this ban, and as a token of goodwill, I refunded him the auction costs.

      Does anyone disagree with this conclusion? I've included the messages below, in case that helps.

      I'm happy to argue this for as long as goldmind123 wishes. I make no apology for banning those who cause problems, as it's what our users would expect. I'd advise members of WarriorForum to avoid dealings with him, for the same reasons that we removed him from Flippa.


      On a happier note, Luke and I are both here to answer any questions or complaints you guys have about Flippa - we think it's a good service, and we're always looking to improve!


      Posted by: <anonymous>
      Date: 6:24am, Fri, Feb 12 2010

      Once the domain transfer has been initiated I'll send the payment
      over. Sounds good?

      Have you sold anything on here before?


      Posted by: <goldmind123>
      Date: 6:30am, Fri, Feb 12 2010

      You didn't check my profile before placing your bids?

      I have closed many successful sales on Flippa, You can click on my
      username and find more about this and the feedback I got.

      Sorry, but domain transfer can't be initiated without completing the
      transfer, this is how things are done here on Flippa, Flippa has
      control over money, not domains, i.e., they have access to my PayPal
      account and Bank account and can charge your money back if I didn't
      complete the transfer, but they can't do the same for
      domains/websites.

      As soon as I receive your transaction, I'll send you the Auth. Code.

      Regards

      A Bary


      Posted by: <goldmind123>
      Date: 6:33am, Fri, Feb 12 2010

      Here's a link to other buyers feedback to review

      <link removed>


      Posted by: <goldmind123>
      Date: 6:49am, Fri, Feb 12 2010

      Hello

      Can you plz inform me what are you going to do?

      Will you complete this sale?


      Posted by: <goldmind123>
      Date: 7:06am, Fri, Feb 12 2010

      I am still waiting for your reply.

      If I don't receive your response in the next 2 hours, unfortunately, I
      have to report the issue to Flippa administrators.

      Regards

      A Bary


      Posted by: <anoymous>
      Date: 7:18am, Fri, Feb 12 2010

      What's up your ass? I'm out to lunch. I'll pay you later when I get
      back into the office. Else go ahead an make your complaint. Jackass
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        So often here there is a rant and I wonder "what's the other side of the story?"

        Good to see the whole picture for a change.

        Reacting with impatience and anger seldom works out as you wish.

        kay

        Edit: I would add though, that it only makes sense that payment would be requested before domain is transferred - and I've heard several sellers who have had buyers requesting all the files and the domain before paying. sthat would be a clear requirement at Flippa for buyers.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Slutzkin
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Edit: I would add though, that it only makes sense that payment would be requested before domain is transferred - and I've heard several sellers who have had buyers requesting all the files and the domain before paying. sthat would be a clear requirement at Flippa for buyers.
          Often, yes, I'm definitely not arguing with that! But I'm certain that position could have been arrived at through negotiation. Unfortunately, a different path was taken.
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  • Profile picture of the author terryd
    Good to see this being sorted out and a couple of the flippa guys giving their account of how things went especially as I plan to use them in the coming weeks.
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  • I have used Flippa to sell over 80 sites and never had a problem with them. Out of that 80+ sites only had minor problems with 3 buyers but it was not the fault of Flippa. The buyers were newbies and did not know the process.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ruth P
    Flippa I appreciate you coming onto this thread - like I said above, it is hard to get into disputes between buyers and sellers. I have sold a lot of sites there and never had a problem before. There will always be scammers on any network, as well as those who may be rude to buyers/ sellers. Unfortunately that's the result of having a marketplace that anyone can join. However, it looks like Flippa are doing a good job at improving the processes that exist to deal with this kind of thing.
    ~Ruth
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  • Profile picture of the author tonyaphx
    What a jerk. It's just like everything else you pay and then take the item. You can't just go into a store and say I want to take this home and then pay you. There is always someone out there trying to piss someone else off for fun or get what they can for free or see how they can scam you or rip you off. I just wish people like this would stop and get a life. I have never used Flippa, but if I do in the future I will with cation thank you for the heads up.
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  • Profile picture of the author pearsonbrown
    Dave Slutzkin,

    Since you've brought us into your disciplinary process, I hope you don't mind if I make a couple of comments.

    I'm a moderator here. Quite often people get extremely worked up about issues. When that happens, all that is usually necessary is 'a quiet word in their ear'. In some cases, we have to resort to bans - but a 5 day ban is usually enough to make a person see the error of their ways.

    I have had one or two run ins with this particular poster. But I recognize that English is not his first language and that he may not express himself in English as well as you or I could.

    I also think that he was entirely in the right in demanding payment first. That's what is supposed to happen. And he's entirely right in complaining about the unprofessional language used by the other person.

    As for the so-called 'lying', I too assumed that your system worked like that (and I've sold a few sites through you.)

    So in short, I think you have over-reacted. A one-week ban would have been quite sufficient.

    Pearson Brown
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Slutzkin
      Originally Posted by pearsonbrown View Post

      Since you've brought us into your disciplinary process, I hope you don't mind if I make a couple of comments.
      Brought you into our disciplinary process? How? I'm posting here to tidy up some misconceptions, and make sure that the name of one of our buyers in good standing isn't slandered.

      Originally Posted by pearsonbrown View Post

      I also think that he was entirely in the right in demanding payment first. That's what is supposed to happen. And he's entirely right in complaining about the unprofessional language used by the other person.
      I'm not arguing that he was wrong in asking for payment first, though obviously that's something which buyers and sellers see differently, and Flippa needs to be fair to both sides of a transaction.

      What I am saying is that he's wrong in making a situation out of nothing in a period of just thirty-six minutes - the professionalism of which is something which you haven't addressed in your post.

      As for "unprofessional language", I have never and will never suspend or ban a user for using swear words, which is what goldmind123 demanded of me on multiple occasions.

      Originally Posted by pearsonbrown View Post

      As for the so-called 'lying', I too assumed that your system worked like that (and I've sold a few sites through you.)
      In dealing with Flippa you assumed that, to quote goldmind123, "they have access to my PayPal account and Bank account"? We have never ever asked for a bank account number, so I'm not sure why you would think that.

      Originally Posted by pearsonbrown View Post

      So in short, I think you have over-reacted. A one-week ban would have been quite sufficient.
      Thanks for your opinion. However, there is more history here which I'm not going to go into, and taking that into account, I'm perfectly content with my decision.
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      • Profile picture of the author A Bary
        First, thanks to Pearson, Remotedb, salesguru, Rudy and Thomas for bringing some logic here..

        Second, I am really sad to see Mr. Dave Slutzkin posting a bunch of lies to make me the wrong party in this situation, and I'll try to clarify some points here:

        Originally Posted by Dave Slutzkin View Post

        I'm posting here to tidy up some misconceptions, and make sure that the name of one of our buyers in good standing isn't slandered.
        Well, I have been asked about the name of the buyer here, and because I respect this forum and its rules, I didn't (and won't) post his name...

        I'll just state the facts that this "buyer in good standing" was actually involved in only 2 sales on Flippa, the first was mine, and the other was with another seller, the mentioned buyer placed a BIN price offer for $2000 for the seller's listing, and within few hours, the seller submitted this feedback:

        "Sellers Beware: It's people like this that give Flippa a bad name. Avoid and do not do business with or release your stats to."
        this feedback has been quoted as is from Flippa...

        Dave's good standing buyer received just 2 feedbacks, one from me and one from the other seller, and they both were negative (the other seller's feedback was after the whole dispute and after Flippa management left the same buyer to mess around)

        Now, I'll leave this for your judgment..

        The second lie Dave posted here was about my history on Flippa, he showed me as a regular trouble maker, and due to my unprofessional practice, I caused problems for other buyers..

        Originally Posted by Dave Slutzkin View Post

        He was asked to leave the site because he presented ongoing problems in his dealings with buyers, including in this case, where he was unarguably wrong.
        I wonder if Mr. Slutzkin dares to address the other "ongoing" problems I caused for other buyers?

        I didn't do much business on Flippa, I had 6 listings, 3 of them have been successfully closed, and here's the feedback I got from the 3 buyers I dealt with:
        "Excellent Seller! Prompt, effective communication. Smooth transfer of top-quality sites. Highly recommended." by corestar

        "Excellent Chap. Fast Transact. Will do biz again with him"by Caesardimxes

        "good experience. honest seller."byviarun
        Here's a link to my feedback page http://flippa.com/users/347832/feedback

        No single complaint was made by any of the buyers I done business with!

        Now, I think Mr. Slutzkin needs to explain how I was a trouble maker on Flippa, if he considers my history to be a negative one that he warned others to do business with me, I'll be glad if he shows us how a GOOD history looks like on his site...

        He claims that I put pressure on the buyer, and I invite everyone to read his post where he quoted my communications with the buyer, and see how I put pressure on him!

        What happened is that, the buyer was online, and sent me a request to transfer the domain before he make the payment, and because I know he is online, I urged him to make a clear decision, I didn't ask him to pay instantly, I was asking if he is going to close the deal according to the regular terms, or otherwise, let me know that he is not interested anymore and I'll try to figure out how to relist the domain for sale, so I don't lose the money I paid for the listing...

        And for the misrepresentation of the PayPal issue, as Pearson stated, it was a wrong language expression , what I meant is that, Flippa has my PayPal information (and ofcourse my PayPal account is linked to my bank account), so, if there's an issue with the money transfer, Flippa can help the buyer with the dispute (I don't see the whole purpose of the site if they don't), however, if the issue was with the domain transfer, Flippa has nothing to do for me...

        The buyer kept ignoring me, and he only responded when I warned him that I'll report this to the site admins, that was when he replied with his rude message..

        What was really shocking in this whole situation is the attitude of Flippa admins, and Dave in particular..

        Actually, after a few communications, he totally ignored me, and left the situation on hold (the domain is showing to be sold, and the buyer didn't take any action, neither Flippa management, and I couldn't sell it either on Flippa or any where else)

        I asked them to end this situation and let me sell the domain either on Flippa or anywhere else (till this moment, I was trying to respect their rules).. but they just didn't reply..

        Dave only took action when I started this thread, that was when he sent me his threatening message to stop using the site in return of receiving a full refund...

        And you know what?

        Until the moment I made this post, I am still an active user on Flippa, I didn't get banned (probably I will after this post, but who cares), and in the few last days, I could cause them a hell of troubles, but, because I am mature enough, I respected their decision and stopped using the site and moved on.. I just considered Flippa to be a history for me...


        As Thomas said in his post, it takes much more than a site to build a real business, and although Flippa stands for a great concept and has a great potential, the people behind this site don't seem to have what it takes to build a real business..

        As I said in my previous post, this site is going ok until now because of its professional users, not its management, but considering the attitude of Dave and others in this site staff, it seems to be a matter of time before it collapses..

        I was obligated to defend my name against Dave's lies, so I apologize for anyone finds this post inappropriate..

        Finally, I repeat my thanks to Pearson and Thomas and everyone else contributed to this thread with logic, you're a real bless to this community...
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        • Profile picture of the author A Bary
          Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post


          Until the moment I made this post, I am still an active user on Flippa, I didn't get banned (probably I will after this post, but who cares).
          Dave just decided to continue his childish, silly reactions..

          Few minutes ago, I received an email informing me that my account was banned:rolleyes:
          Now, I am glad he did, because this just reflects his way of thinking and managing his site that deals with other people''s money and business.

          I think nothing is needed to be said, except that, soon I'll contact an attorney in their country and fight to bring this site to an end...
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  • Profile picture of the author nota-bene
    Thanks to Dave for adding some quality input to this thread. Always good to hear both sides of the story. Having also sold sites on Flippa, it is good to see you actively getting involved in other forums, and taking a good stance in resolving such issues.

    I must also add though, that I am in 'Team Kay King' with regards to the fact that I would not do business any other way than to have payment first, before transferring any files..let alone domain names. While I appreciate that 36 minutes was a ridiculous amount of time to expect this to be completed, it appears to me that there is always a bias toward protecting the buyer...as opposed to the seller!

    Fortunately, through clear communication and a large amount of due diligence, I have not encountered a problem in selling, or buying, a site on flippa.

    I'll just throw this out there, in the hope that we can take away something positive from an otherwise negative thread...What action would you have taken had the buyer transferred the domain name and files, and then not received payment?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Slutzkin
      Originally Posted by nota-bene View Post

      I must also add though, that I am in 'Team Kay King' with regards to the fact that I would not do business any other way than to have payment first, before transferring any files..let alone domain names. While I appreciate that 36 minutes was a ridiculous amount of time to expect this to be completed, it appears to me that there is always a bias toward protecting the buyer...as opposed to the seller!
      I assume you're a seller? Strangely, you'll find that buyers think the opposite - that we always take the seller's side!

      Flippa is in the unenviable position of needing to please two opposing sides of a complex transaction, and that's something we take very seriously.

      Originally Posted by nota-bene View Post

      I'll just throw this out there, in the hope that we can take away something positive from an otherwise negative thread...What action would you have taken had the (buyer) seller transferred the domain name and files, and then not received payment?
      Or, the converse, which we at Flippa always need to think about - if the buyer had transferred payment and then not received the goods? Both parties are equally exposed in this transaction and so it must be considered from both sides.

      What action would we take? We'd do all we can possibly do, which unfortunately is not that much. We ban the offending buyer or seller, and cooperate fully with the wronged party in any action they'd like to take. But the action is not ours to take - we're not legally a wronged party.

      We want to make the marketplace more and more safe. Our focus, then, is to help out users in avoiding problems altogether. There's rarely going to be a successful resolution to a situation where one party is fraudulent, so we want to help users do due diligence and avoid those situations. One way we do that is that we're vigilant in removing problematic users.

      We're also working towards integrating an escrow service, as that can avoid a large number of these problems. It may never be practicable for small transactions, but over a certain value some form of escrow is a must.

      There are other items on my list, but I've been long-winded enough for tonight. The bottom line, which I want to make clear, is that we're very much focused on making the Flippa marketplace a safe place to do business. It's a high priority. (Suggestions always accepted!)
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      • Profile picture of the author remotedb
        Originally Posted by Dave Slutzkin View Post

        I assume you're a seller? Strangely, you'll find that buyers think the opposite - that we always take the seller's side!

        Flippa is in the unenviable position of needing to please two opposing sides of a complex transaction, and that's something we take very seriously.



        Or, the converse, which we at Flippa always need to think about - if the buyer had transferred payment and then not received the goods? Both parties are equally exposed in this transaction and so it must be considered from both sides.

        What action would we take? We'd do all we can possibly do, which unfortunately is not that much. We ban the offending buyer or seller, and cooperate fully with the wronged party in any action they'd like to take. But the action is not ours to take - we're not legally a wronged party.

        We want to make the marketplace more and more safe. Our focus, then, is to help out users in avoiding problems altogether. There's rarely going to be a successful resolution to a situation where one party is fraudulent, so we want to help users do due diligence and avoid those situations. One way we do that is that we're vigilant in removing problematic users.

        We're also working towards integrating an escrow service, as that can avoid a large number of these problems. It may never be practicable for small transactions, but over a certain value some form of escrow is a must.

        There are other items on my list, but I've been long-winded enough for tonight. The bottom line, which I want to make clear, is that we're very much focused on making the Flippa marketplace a safe place to do business. It's a high priority. (Suggestions always accepted!)
        What a ridiculous load of tripe! Your own rules clearly state that payment has to be made before a site is transferred. No other consideration is required in this instance. The sale was made, the buyer asked for transfer before payment was made, a clear violation of your own policies. You were advised of this, and did nothing. Then the same user did the same thing again, you were advised again and still did nothing. Instead you chose to entrap and punish the seller.

        Now you have the unmitigated gall to come here and excuse your company's reprehensible behavior just to save face. I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't buy or sell on Flippa though I do have about 30 sites that I no longer have need of. At least I know now where I won't be going to sell them
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Slutzkin
          Originally Posted by remotedb View Post

          What a ridiculous load of tripe! Your own rules clearly state that payment has to be made before a site is transferred.
          No, they don't.

          Originally Posted by remotedb View Post

          No other consideration is required in this instance. The sale was made, the buyer asked for transfer before payment was made, a clear violation of your own policies.
          Since that's not our policy, it wasn't a clear violation of anything.

          Originally Posted by remotedb View Post

          You were advised of this, and did nothing. Then the same user did the same thing again, you were advised again and still did nothing.
          What? Which sequence of events are you following?

          Originally Posted by remotedb View Post

          Instead you chose to entrap and punish the seller.
          Entrap? How did we entrap the seller?
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  • Profile picture of the author nota-bene
    Thanks again, Dave!

    As I mentioned, I am both a Buyer and Seller on Flippa ...so I take no sides! I was just keen to see what you had to say, given that we had your attention here for a short while. I do totally understand the position that you are in, and know full well that you do your best to make Flippa what it is today...the number one website marketplace I also read the blog, so look forward to hearing more about your escrow integration (which would resolve almost all issues in regards scammers) and other plans. I may well ping you over an email re: suggestions too.

    Thanks once again for taking the time to respond.
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    • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
      Great timing for this thread, I'm getting ready to sell some sites but I'll definitely be waiting now until the escrow feature is in place.

      If I'm selling: no payment, no files, no domain transfer.

      If I'm buying, no files, no domain transfer, no payment.

      Simple. Fair. Everybody is happy.
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  • Profile picture of the author pearsonbrown
    "FlippaLuke said that seller was refunded for flippa fees."

    Yes but not until later when they threw him out. At the time he got emotional, this was not the case. There's no doubt that he over-reacted but then there's no doubt in my mind that the Flippa management over-reacted too.

    None of this would have happened if they'd had an escrow system in place. It never occurred to me for even a moment that such a site would NOT have such a system. Luckily, the deals I did there all went really well.

    Pearson
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    • Profile picture of the author Terry Edwards
      Originally Posted by pearsonbrown View Post

      None of this would have happened if they'd had an escrow system in place.Pearson
      You're exactly right Pearson. This issue is a huge reason why you really want to use escrow for your flip transactions. I'm sure some will disagree, but I've sold a few sites on Flippa and many others privately and never had a single issue with payments and transfers. It's peace of mind for both buyers and sellers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Slutzkin
      Originally Posted by pearsonbrown View Post

      None of this would have happened if they'd had an escrow system in place. It never occurred to me for even a moment that such a site would NOT have such a system.
      That's why we're bringing this in.

      But keep in mind that there's nothing to stop buyers and sellers from completing their transaction through escrow right now - it's just not fully integrated into the site. Agreement between the parties still frequently sees it used successfully.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rudy Dhondt
        @ Dave Slutzkin: You agree to use Escrow services. Using Escrow services implies that goods or services are delivered after payment has reached the seller, whether your policies say this or not. So, why defend a buyer that wants the opposite?
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Slutzkin
          Originally Posted by Rudy Dhondt View Post

          @ Dave Slutzkin: You agree to use Escrow services. Using Escrow services implies that goods or services are delivered after payment has reached the seller, whether your policies say this or not. So, why defend a buyer that wants the opposite?
          Actually, the two parties hadn't agreed to use any escrow service, as you can see from my original post, so there's no reason to make any assumption about which way the transfer should proceed.

          But let me explain the way escrow works, which is not as you've said. Escrow says that the goods are delivered AT THE SAME TIME as the payment is delivered. The payment doesn't go directly to the seller, it goes to the escrow account, as do the goods. Then, when approved, both the money and the goods are delivered to the respective parties at the same time.

          The point of escrow is that neither the buyer nor the seller needs to be exposed to non-fulfillment from the other side. This is why we recommend its use - but we don't mandate it, and in this case the seller chose not to use it. This means that the seller should have negotiated transfer arrangements with the buyer.
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    Maybe the seller was impatient, but has full right to ask for payment first, buyer did not have to use foul language or personal attacks (which according to Dave Slutzkin is cool over at flippa).
    From reading his replies i deduce that Mr. Dave Slutzkin has a bit of a God complex. He is the big dog at flippa and what he says goes?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Slutzkin
      Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

      Maybe the seller was impatient, but has full right to ask for payment first, buyer did not have to use foul language or personal attacks (which according to Dave Slutzkin is cool over at flippa).
      I don't think you read my post. According to my reading of the situation, the buyer was provoked into using certain language by the seller's unreasonable demands. And there were no personal attacks. Do you disagree?

      I agree that the seller has full right to ask for payment first. However, this is a negotiation between the seller and the buyer. Participating in it fully would be the best way to come to an agreement. The seller instead chose to misrepresent the level of safety that the buyer would have in the transaction, and then rapidly escalate it so it became a serious issue. He then insisted that the buyer was banned.

      We don't have human monitoring for every private message sent on our system. However, when support requests refer us to messages which show obvious issues with a particular user, we are compelled to act.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Dave Slutzkin View Post

        I don't think you read my post. According to my reading of the situation, the buyer was provoked into using certain language by the seller's unreasonable demands. And there were no personal attacks. Do you disagree?

        I agree that the seller has full right to ask for payment first. However, this is a negotiation between the seller and the buyer. Participating in it fully would be the best way to come to an agreement. The seller instead chose to misrepresent the level of safety that the buyer would have in the transaction, and then rapidly escalate it so it became a serious issue. He then insisted that the buyer was banned.

        We don't have human monitoring for every private message sent on our system. However, when support requests refer us to messages which show obvious issues with a particular user, we are compelled to act.
        No, the buyer was never provoked to use that type of language. You are dealing with people who have never met. The seller is thinking he is out of his money because the buyer may not go through with the transaction.

        Would you refund his flippa fees if the buyer backed out? If so, did the seller know this?

        You, as a middle man, could have handled this situation for the two. Instead, you banned the seller because he got impatient?

        Sorry, but doing any type of business online will get impatient people. Mainly because they are doing business with unknowns and are afraid of getting ripped off.

        You should have handled this more professionally instead of just banning the seller.

        This reflects badly on your site and something I will consider if I decide to use your services which is doubtful.

        I agree with Pearson on this. You had no emotional ties to this transaction and you could have brokered a settlement between the two where each got what they wanted. Instead you made yourself look like an inflexible company that does not care for its members.

        I would think using profane language would be more of reason to ban someone rather than being impatient.

        Good to know...
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Slutzkin
          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

          I agree with Pearson on this. You had no emotional ties to this transaction and you could have brokered a settlement between the two where each got what they wanted. Instead you made yourself look like an inflexible company that does not care for its members.
          In fact both parties in this situation were our members, as they are in any dispute on Flippa. goldmind1234 was insisting, using very strong language, that the other user be banned, so that suggests that one or the other party had to be asked to leave the site. One party had no history of problems, one party had a history of issues. At this point it was a straightforward decision.

          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

          I would think using profane language would be more of reason to ban someone rather than being impatient.
          Neither of there are sufficient grounds to ban someone.
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          • Profile picture of the author A Bary
            Originally Posted by Dave Slutzkin View Post

            In fact both parties in this situation were our members, as they are in any dispute on Flippa. goldmind1234 was insisting, using very strong language, that the other user be banned, so that suggests that one or the other party had to be asked to leave the site. One party had no history of problems, one party had a history of issues. At this point it was a straightforward decision.
            I am really amazed how you keep repeating this claim with no evidence..I URGE you (in fact, I challenge you) to state the problems I caused and expose my history of causing troubles!!!

            I posted the feedback I received from buyers on your site, with a link to the page where this feedback is available..

            Why you don't do the same and post any kind of information about the previous troubles I caused:confused:

            It's really interesting how people can go low when they know they are wrong..

            here's a summary of what happened:

            You have a Buyer vs a Seller in a dispute:

            The Buyer: signed up a few days ago, 2 unsuccessful problematic sales, 100% negative feedback, no single transaction or a bit of trust ----> you consider him a "buyer in good standing"!!

            The Seller: has been on your site for about 6 months with no single complaint from any other user, 3 successful sales, total gross of $3400, 100% positive feedback, excellent impressions from buyers clearly stating that they are willing to do business with him again ----> you decided he is a problematic seller with a history of troubles and decided to ban him, then, you try to justify your action by stating false claims about the seller activity and history, without any evidence or background..

            Many respectable members here believe I over reacted, and I don't urge with that, but getting insulted while trying to do business is something I couldn't tolerate, the whole situation could be solved with a professional apology from you or the buyer for the rude language he used, instead, you took the whole issue another way, to the point where I couldn't continue the business with this person...


            End of story
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dave Slutzkin View Post

            In fact both parties in this situation were our members, as they are in any dispute on Flippa. goldmind1234 was insisting, using very strong language, that the other user be banned, so that suggests that one or the other party had to be asked to leave the site. One party had no history of problems, one party had a history of issues. At this point it was a straightforward decision.



            Neither of there are sufficient grounds to ban someone.
            According to goldmind, the buyer signed up days before this took place. Is that true? Not much of a history to go on if it is true.

            You could have handled the situation better and all parties left happily. That is your job in insuring a proper environment for buyers and sellers.

            You have failed in my opinion. Instead of learning from your mistakes you keep trying to make excuses which leads me to believe you will do this again and again.
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  • Profile picture of the author pearsonbrown
    The whole point of a site like yours should be that it's a safe and fair place to do business.

    Instead of which you seem to have had a hissy fit because one guy is a bit irritating and can't express himself fully in English.

    We expect proportionality from our arbitrators. Not sledgehammers to crack walnuts.

    Pearson
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  • Profile picture of the author EndGame
    What an interesting thread.

    On the "facts" of the matter itself, perhaps Goldmind did over react, after all, according to Dave (the GM) in the messages he posted, the buyer did actually say he would make the payment later on in the day. Goldmind took the other option and decided to make a complaint.

    I agree with pearson, and goldmind has said himself, that with regards to the paypal issue, it was a miss-communication due to English not being his first language.

    It's good to hear goldmind was refunded, but I get the feeling that the situation could have been handled a little better to allow for a more positive outcome for all three parties involved.

    What is more interesting to me is the public posting of private messages. I accept goldmind came here and told his story and disclosed a lot of information, but for a GM of a website of this nature to publicly post personal communications seems incredible to me.

    I am sure Dave's t & c's allow for this (or at least I hope they do) but I know I would not be permitted to post one of my member's private communications (whether on my forum or not) as the law in the UK does not permit me to do so. Again, Dave and Flippa aren't in the same jurisdiction, so I am not accusing him of breaking any law. However, as a business practice it seems interesting.

    I am pretty amazed that you decided Dave to engage with goldmind in this way. I know your site and brand was being dragged through the mud here a little, and I can see why you felt you had to respond, but I am interested that you chose to engage with this mater in this way.

    For example, going into such detail about goldmind here, telling us all you've had trouble with him before as a member of your forum, not backing that up with any evidence seems to be almost libelous (I am not saying it is, I am just saying it is a pretty strong position to take if unfounded). I accept you don't want to go into that background (why you have had difficulties with him before) but I kind of feel that you didn't need to make that statement/implication in your post anyway.

    I make no legal accusation here, I am no lawyer and I am in another country. Furthermore Dave, you will be far more experienced at handling these matters than me. But from a public relations stand-point, it just comes across as a larger entity/company attacking an individual entrepreneur and disgruntled user of your service. I hope you can appreciate how this might look to other users or potential users of your site?

    Goldmind started it with this thread, thats true. But this is pretty common these days for people to air grievances and thoughts about businesses, especially in the online community. I have rarely seen a company play the "but he said, then we said" game publicly on a forum in response.
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    • Profile picture of the author kevin campbelle
      Originally Posted by EndGame View Post


      What is more interesting to me is the public posting of private messages. I accept goldmind came here and told his story and disclosed a lot of information, but for a GM of a website of this nature to publicly post personal communications seems incredible to me.

      I was surprised about this as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author remodeler
      Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

      What is more interesting to me is the public posting of private messages. I accept goldmind came here and told his story and disclosed a lot of information, but for a GM of a website of this nature to publicly post personal communications seems incredible to me.
      I agree. You rarely, if ever, see an owner of a company posting private messages in a public forum like this. Not cool at all. This could...and should...have been handled privately between the three parties and settled quickly and easily. Says all I need to know about doing business with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEOExpert104
    You just learned a new lesson, always, always, always check the buyer, if he is new, old, any previous sales or such things, go to his profile, and if he has a pic, it's better.

    But Flippa did wrong saying that insulting is allowed and you must complete the sale, it seems like a drunk guy. I never had problems with Flippa.
    I'm really sorry this happened.
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  • Profile picture of the author lisaann
    Sounds like they banned goldmine123 more because they didn't like this post he made.

    Really bad way to do business.

    I've used flippa and have had one problem with a buyer who I awarded the site to who then backed out. The guy never responded to my emails or PMs and wasted a lot of my time because I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt so I ended up not selling it.

    I remember reporting him to flippa (sitepoint then) because they had a policy where if you are the winner you must commit to buying. I think they wrote me back stating basically that they couldn't do anything about it. So that was lame, but other than that it has worked out OK for me, but ALWAYS use escrow.

    I think of them more as a platform and not as a company who is going to intervene and help you out. I guess I assumed they were 'neutral'. But banning someone for this post is ridiculous and clearly not neutral. Sounds like anything goes on flippa until you complain in a public forum and they notice.

    Lisa
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  • Profile picture of the author tma
    From all we see on this thread it is so obvious that Dave has an issue with goldmind123. If not there is no reason for the ban. It show fear and insecurity on his part. I will advice him to take the noble path of apology. If he keeps posting to defend himself, it further reveals his insecurity and immaturity.
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  • Profile picture of the author mhclysmic
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
      Originally Posted by mhclysmic View Post

      I've always had great success with Flippa

      mhclysmic
      Really??

      You also did a great job by signing up to the WF today, read 15 threads with more than 700 posts in total, and posted a 1 line reply to each of them, all within few hours..:rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
        Originally Posted by goldmind123 View Post

        Really??

        You also did a great job by signing up to the WF today, read 15 threads with more than 700 posts in total, and posted a 1 line reply to each of them, all within few hours..:rolleyes:
        LOL

        On a serious note though, have the owner(s) of the Warrior Forum considered setting up a site flipping service?

        I'd feel way more comfortable using a service run by people where even unpaid moderators seem to be more diligent than an existing paid service (i.e. the existing Warrior Forum vs. existing Flippa).

        I think it would be instantly profitable for them.

        I'd rather give my money to a quality, well run service any day.

        Just a thought.
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        • Profile picture of the author A Bary
          Originally Posted by CanuckWarrior View Post

          LOL

          On a serious note though, have the owner(s) of the Warrior Forum considered setting up a site flipping service?

          I'd feel way more comfortable using a service run by people where even unpaid moderators seem to be more diligent than an existing paid service (i.e. the existing Warrior Forum vs. existing Flippa).

          I think it would be instantly profitable for them.

          I'd rather give my money to a quality, well run service any day.

          Just a thought.
          You have my vote on this..

          I know that there's already a section on the forum to sell websites, but it's less functional than it should be as a viable alternative..

          I wish that Allen thinks about developing an advanced service for flipping sites and domains, with the WF reputation, I think this section will attract a major share of the market
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  • Profile picture of the author mkmossop
    Can I ask what sort of profits you made with Flippa?

    I'm looking to get into it myself, but I'm a little hesitant at the moment.

    I'm not sure exactly how established a site needs to be to make any decent money, i.e. how old the domain is, whether it's getting traffic, is it monetized (adsense, ebay, amazon, etc), is it based around a certain keyword... and so on.

    Just wondering if you could give some guidelines with respect to the above, and if you don't mind, how much you sold your sites for (I understand if you don't want to reveal this).

    If seems like it could be a great business on its own, I'm just not sure if I'd have to work for months establishing a site, or whether I could flip it immediately.

    Thanks!
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  • Haiz, it is a sad news, I do not like it.

    Normally when a website growing up, they will not care what you say or what the problem you face.

    Like Ebay, they do not give a good protection for seller, but they increase the rules to protect your buyer.

    But only those medium company will take care of seller.
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  • Profile picture of the author willoh
    I never heard of Flippa until now and this is mind blowing. You get cussed out AND banned for insisting on getting paid. Great business model.
    Here's some free feedback for Flippa: switch from being reactive to proactive because it's only a matter of time before someone else will exploit this weakness and replicate Flippa with a brilliant execution.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Olah
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      • Profile picture of the author CanuckWarrior
        Originally Posted by Jeff Olah View Post

        Again, please pm me with the details of what you would like to see from this site.
        Jeff,

        I can't PM because I have less than 50 posts, so could you PM me when you get your site up and running or when you start your own thread.

        Couple of suggestions from a seller's perspective:

        1) Please make the service buyer AND seller friendly (not just buyer focused).
        2) Include escrow to protect both parties.
        3) Give sellers the option to refuse and/or block bids from problem child buyers.
        4) Have the option to sell in a "private area" which is invisible to search engines to exclude tire kickers and people just doing market research.

        Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author krisDupree
    Thank you...you just helped me make my decision.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    So let me get this straight. You made money with Flippa twice. Then someone insulted you and you let it deteriorate to this? That seems kind of silly if not ridiculously counter productive to generating revenue for your business. It's my experience that when you find a marketplace full of buyers with money you do WHATEVER it takes to establish yourself as a credible vendor in that marketplace. By sending a whiny email to the admin folks at Flippa all you did was waste their time as well as your own.
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    • Profile picture of the author A Bary
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      So let me get this straight. You made money with Flippa twice. Then someone insulted you and you let it deteriorate to this? That seems kind of silly if not ridiculously counter productive to generating revenue for your business. It's my experience that when you find a marketplace full of buyers with money you do WHATEVER it takes to establish yourself as a credible vendor in that marketplace. By sending a whiny email to the admin folks at Flippa all you did was waste their time as well as your own.
      If you don't care about something called "self respect" or "dignity" then it's your problem, not mine...

      If you accept to get insulted and move on with a smile on your face and complete the so called business with the same person insulted you, only for the sake of money and to save the almighty Flippa stuff time, you're free, just don't come here and state this as what should be done..because I prefer to protect my dignity over making thousands of dollars..
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
    This thread is like someone stopping in the fast lane to help at an accident....goes from bad to worse!! Gotta say for a so called 'professional' company Flippa really should have been more responsible and taken an impartial standpoint and sorted this. Oh well they say there's no such thing as bad publicity..mmm!!!

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author PerfectedWeb
    I care about self-respect and dignity, but if It were to happen to me I would probably swallow my pride and say to myself "oh well, this guy is just an outright idiot."

    That said, I don't think you over-reacted, and I am stunned how unprofessional flippa has been in this story.
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  • Profile picture of the author Duc
    I am sorry for you... You let a small insult become a big thing.
    Sometimes, it is better to ignore things than forcing a change. But I admire you for your principles.
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  • Profile picture of the author sash024
    Strange. Always protect yourself
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