Anyone using the money siphon system?

by gerrie
57 replies
In this time of financial panic I think it would be refreshing to find new information on Internet Marketing Products. Not the same old rehashed eBook information you find on the web.

Gerrie
#money #siphon #system
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  • Profile picture of the author NickR06
    I'm not using it yet. As I only purchased this last night. Half way through the videos and ebooks. To be honest it looks good. It focuses on using free methods to market. There is a lot of material which I have not seen before.
    Johnny Andrews comes across as a stand up sort of a guy. Only letdown is that I have yet to receive the bonus offered by the affiliate that I bought this through. I will give him another 24 hours and then email him.
    From what I have seen it is well worth the price.

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  • Profile picture of the author mudmat
    Hi guys,

    I just saw this product up there with some other famous products in the Clickbank marketplace..

    It must be good considering a lot of people buy it..

    Is it easy to implement?
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Originally Posted by mudmat View Post

      It must be good considering a lot of people buy it..
      That's really not a good way to determine how good a product is. Many of the very WORST products are the best-sellers.

      There's an online marketing product ranked close to 11,000 Worldwide on Quantcast right now that is a terrible product that has been marketed like crazy.
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      • Profile picture of the author pa321
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        • Profile picture of the author Eben
          ive made money from this. sorry hard to put a number of how much ive made specifically using this system since i used a mixture from a few other products along w/ some BH stuff tossed in for good measure but i estimate close to $5k in 2 months..

          an eye opener for me was Part IV - Free Money Forever Siphon.. it sparked my interest with PPC -> CPA & CPM. along with some BH technique, this will make me a couple more grand easily..
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  • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
    Hey! Just checked this out to see if anyone was talking about this thing.

    Glad to hear a lot of folks like it! I actually spent a butt-load of time/effort
    and energy getting that stuff out and into a clear format.

    There was one question up there about "will it still work after 30 days when everybody is using it..."

    That's actually a good one:

    The core of MSS focuses on using free methods (for newbies so you don't get killed in bad adwords clicks) to market new products...

    So as long as new products come out... you can do it and it works great.

    I wouldn't suggest using it for stuff that's been popular for a long time (Rocket Spanish as an example) As far as that goes you'll have one hell of a time beating out seasoned affiliates. (there are much faster ways)

    However, you don't have to stick to the ClickBank circle by any means.

    Also, if you have bought, please make sure you check out that "Secret Siphon" section. I show you how I run PPC (and how you can also use it with the free stuff) to find better keywords than just trademarks.

    But if you're totally new, just stick to the basics in Module 1, get your feet wet, and you'll be all good.

    And yea, as ExtTrail2 mentioned, if you have a question you can always shoot it over. I love working with people who are serious and actually want to make headway in this business.
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  • Profile picture of the author DonDavis
    Johnny- I bought this before it was revised. Was I supposed to receive the updated version or does that require another round of betting? - Thx.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dax Brathwaite
    If you like, you can follow my daily experiences with the MSS on the following blog to get more info about the product:
    siphonmoney.blogspot.com
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  • Profile picture of the author Dax Brathwaite
    I don't have Guru Assassin, but from what I've been told, MSS is for newbies who don't have a product of their own. GA is for those who do have a product.
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  • Profile picture of the author blillard
    I just got the money siphon system and from the looks of it no one is actually the system the right way. I mean with some of the tactics no one is using. I think the doors are still wide open for anyone to kill it.
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  • Profile picture of the author howdab2
    I read through countless of review on it, so far all the reviews are good. Some cons from the reviews include
    1) Need to read at least twice to understand the system clearly.
    2) Did not teach the very basic like installing clickbank or adwords etc.
    1) IME, you need to read at least twice to understand any system clearly...
    2) Thats very refreshing, cuz im tired of paying over and over and over again to have someone show me those for the millionth time...

    Sounds like this ones a winner, im gonna check it out...

    Thanks for all your info here, this has been a very helpful forum to help determine whether a product is worth buying
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  • Profile picture of the author khtm
    After reading all the Warrior feedback, I just took a leap and bought MSS. I'm going to try to get through the material as fast as I can (there's 31 files!!) and then I'll post a review in this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author khtm
    ^ Yep, I attended the webinar. Was a lot of fun - I learned a few tricks that I didn't know beforehand, and Jonny as usual was quite hilarious/insane
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  • Profile picture of the author stormer
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    • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
      Now... before you read this post I just want you to
      know that I'm not *directly* responding to anyone
      specifically...

      it's more to a general audience...

      Please forgive me for appearing totally out of my
      mind... but I have to ask 2 questions which have
      been burning in me for many, many months...

      Q #1: Where are we right now?

      &

      Q #2: Why did we come here?

      Now... I COULD be wrong, but I BELIEVE the
      answers to these questions are:

      A #1: An Internet Marketing Forum

      A #2: To learn Internet Marketing & How to make
      LOTS of money...

      Yes?

      Anyone?

      Seriously... if I'm off base here I'd LOVE to
      know so I can redefine my philosophy of life...

      (BTW: anyone who heard my webinar tirade last
      night about auto mechanics and pink curtains
      will understand... )

      Now, I *get* why somebody doesn't like an upsell...

      The *theory* behind that makes sense...

      I was even contacted prior to my launch by
      a very nice gentleman who informed me he would
      NOT be mailing his list of 500 unless I removed
      the offending pages...

      (And he was VERY insistent about it... with VERY
      strong language... )

      If you know me then you know I ALWAYS
      strive to be tactful in all situations...

      Therefore I was gentle in my reply... angelically
      soft-handed if you will...

      Every word in my response was crafted with the utmost
      care, love and respect for this person and their feelings.

      Let me see if I can remember my exact words...

      Oh yes...

      "Are you freaking serious?!?! Pull my upsell???
      DUUUUUUUUUUUDE!

      While I appreciate your opinions on the matter
      the fact is upsells, ESPECIALLY ones that provide
      quality information, are a staple part of every
      good product.

      Mine happens to be a totally independent
      business model... NOT the "missing link"
      that if you don't buy it you can't use the core
      stuff...

      THAT would be totally unethical...

      You see, the reason I have been able to grow my
      business from $0 to almost $1Million in less than
      18 months...

      Is because I have 2 very important things...

      #1: Ethics. I actually strive to provide a VALUE
      for the money my customers give me...

      (Even if it's an upsell)

      #2: I use Upsells! Without them I'd make
      almost 40% less income AND would have 90%
      less major partners helping spread the word...

      So, good sir...

      While I do value your opinion and the time it must
      have taken to write such a compelling letter...

      I feel the need to point out a small, but very
      important possibility...

      And please... forgive me if I overstep my
      authority...

      Have you not been in the same place doing the
      same thing for many, many years?

      And for all those years have you done nothing more
      than complain about how you are constantly beset
      by those who would *cheat* you?

      Have you done nothing save for complain about
      how you are *broke* and how there is nobody
      who will *help* you?

      What do you have to show for this pattern
      of life you have chosen?

      Nothing.

      Nothing save for the venom in your veins and
      your hot, pumping hatred for those who have
      CHOSEN to rise above you and live lives no longer
      governed by an angry, poverty fueled mindsets...

      You, good sir...

      (not anyone in this forum in any way at all but rather
      the *GUY* who sent me an email before my launch)

      ... may wish to rethink your opinions on the marking
      process for which you seem to so desperately quest...

      Would it not prove more profitable to you LEARN FROM
      and ACT ON the advice given by those you wish to hate?

      Because, and this is only in *MY* humble experience and
      opinion...

      ... when you openly reject those golden
      answers you have been desperately searching for...

      You are essentially pissing on your own future.

      With *ALL* my love and respect,

      Jonny"


      ... Yea... I think that's what I said to the *GUY*
      who emailed me a few weeks ago...

      Didn't bring it up for any reason... Just thought
      it might be an interesting topic of discussion.

      Bueller? Bueller?
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      • Profile picture of the author Genechr
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      • Profile picture of the author clumein2
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  • Profile picture of the author korvix
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
      Originally Posted by korvix View Post

      Hi all!
      I just wanted to ask if there any PPC costs involved, because I'm 18 and I don't have credit cards.

      I'm member of the affiloblueprint and I'm looking to complement it with this course
      Ha! No... dude, that's a GREAT question.

      MSS is all about starting with nothing (like I did)
      and then building up. The new stuff shows
      you how to use free systems to get paid
      instantly.

      Yes, I do show you some very effective
      PPC stuff... but I FLAT OUT state you should
      NOT start with it.

      Hence Module 0 -1 NOT being about PPC.

      Hope that helps
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  • Profile picture of the author khtm
    Wow clumein2 you really got bent out of shape over something pretty insignificant.

    Who cares if Jonny doesn't talk like everyone else or does upsells? That's just how he is and how he chooses to do business. And it obviously works for him. I hate using the term but to each his own is perfect for this situation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kiwigal
      Originally Posted by khtm View Post

      Wow clumein2 you really got bent out of shape over something pretty insignificant.

      Who cares if Jonny doesn't talk like everyone else or does upsells? That's just how he is and how he chooses to do business. And it obviously works for him. I hate using the term but to each his own is perfect for this situation.
      I don,t think what clumein said was insignificant, my personal opinion is that the product maybe good, but that type of upsell I think has gone way past it,s use by date.
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      • Profile picture of the author stayfocused
        Originally Posted by Kiwigal View Post

        I don,t think what clumein said was insignificant, my personal opinion is that the product maybe good, but that type of upsell I think has gone way past it,s use by date.
        I can only add this to the mix. Upsells will stop being used only when they stop being effective.

        It kills me the amount of people on this forum who complain about getting marketed to. It is a rough and tumble world out there online. Competition is tough and if you want to get your piece of the pie you have to play for keeps.

        As long as your marketing tactics allow you to shut your eyes at night with a clear conscious then by all means do them. The only question is how many hundred dollar bills is your pillow made out of? :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Sean S
    What is the money siphon system ? Is it the oposit of the reverse funnel system ? Sorry I'm new at this ...
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  • Profile picture of the author Eben
    i just checked out his money siphon system 2.0.. not much different than what he released last sept. very newbie friendly.

    but my one take away was a website he mentioned that i previously had no knowledge of.
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  • Profile picture of the author midiman
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    • Profile picture of the author 2bwealthy
      I had the samething happen. I put in password reminder ( enter paypal email address) and received the password. It was the same as the clickbank ref #.
      System is kind of weird though, since I never had a chance to enter a username/password in the first place.


      Originally Posted by midiman View Post

      i just bought MSS and actually im a bit disappointed with the service straight away i payed with paypal receaved an email saying to go to other page to confirm and then i also bought the Module X that was in that page ...went to a diferent page insert email address and password because i didnt receave any email with that i put forgot password then insert email address again ... and ...Error: Your username is not listed
      i reply to the support i got this
      Please check the email address associated with your purchase.
      You should have received the login info via email.

      If not, simply go to :
      DLGuard Membership System

      Use your email address (found on the ClickBank receipt)
      and your ClickBank order # as the password.

      If you paid via PayPal DO NOT use your PayPal
      receipt #... you need your ClickBank receipt #.

      If you cannot find it, simply click link to recover
      your password and enter the email you used to purchase.

      Everything will be sent to your email.


      Jonny


      that was not jonny for sure ...
      i reply again saying that didnt work ....
      and im still waiting we didnt start so good
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    • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
      Originally Posted by midiman View Post

      i just bought MSS and actually im a bit disappointed with the service straight away i payed with paypal receaved an email saying to go to other page to confirm and then i also bought the Module X that was in that page ...went to a diferent page insert email address and password because i didnt receave any email with that i put forgot password then insert email address again ... and ...Error: Your username is not listed
      i reply to the support i got this
      Please check the email address associated with your purchase.
      You should have received the login info via email.

      If not, simply go to :
      DLGuard Membership System

      Use your email address (found on the ClickBank receipt)
      and your ClickBank order # as the password.

      If you paid via PayPal DO NOT use your PayPal
      receipt #... you need your ClickBank receipt #.

      If you cannot find it, simply click link to recover
      your password and enter the email you used to purchase.

      Everything will be sent to your email.


      Jonny


      that was not jonny for sure ...
      i reply again saying that didnt work ....
      and im still waiting we didnt start so good
      Hit up the support desk again and reference this post.

      There have been a few (as in less than 10) folks
      who had some issues getting the system to recognize them.

      If you're one of them... I created a fix.

      Just make sure you toss your CB receipt # and
      let me know it's you!

      And yes... even though I just sold my 11,356th unit of stuff...

      I still help out the support desk
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  • Profile picture of the author winsonlim
    Hi Johny,
    I have received an email from Mike Filsaime about your new product launch on Money Siphon System.

    I have take a look at your salesletter and think for awhile about what kinds of information are you selling. I have read all the reviews on the post have no clue what kind of information are your selling.

    In my opinion, information products helps a marketer understand the basics of marketing and shows a specific strategy in marketing certain products and services. Be it an affiliate product or selling personal product.

    I have seen Jeff Johnson new membership product launch and he is basically covering the basics and concepts about using Web 2.0 properties to dominate Google.

    ClickBank Quantum was launched few days ago, that is one high end product and it seems to be very popular and in great demand. And the product is focusing on PPC, CPA offers and CPM.

    So my question is can you explain what is the difference between your products and the above 2 products mentioned?

    The reason why I ask as I feel that people has to understand that reading info products and watching videos does not help a person to make money online, it is when someone can provide the tools and service to help that person to get started, to have a marketing system up and running that speed up the chances of success faster.

    Nobody wants to start as a complete newbie in this business. Niches-in-a-box is one membership that provides this kind of incredible value to their members.

    I have seen a lot of product and membership launches that sells information products but did not provide the tools and service to help their members to have a website up and running. Be it, if it is a online business or offline business, in order to have a long term business, there must have a system in the business.

    The system whereby can generates residual income to the business owner in auto pilot. Yes, there is indeed, different kinds of method of making money online, but let's be truthful here, it is only a business system that will outranks the rest of the businesses and can provide a long term residual income for that individual person.

    The marketing system that I am talking about is the list building system. It is not new and neither old. If a marketer truly wants to help newbies to get started, first, we need to tell the truth, not half truth.

    Most marketers like to say in their salesletters about the half truth but not entirely the truth. In most of the sales page, there is a few keywords that seems to appear over and over again. "This system works" "No B.S" "Guranteed to make money if you apply this system" "Life changing product".

    So as a marketer, one has to focus on providing value and tell the truth to get the person to understand, what is it that one cannot afford not to do to get started in internet marketing.

    So back to my question, can you explain what is the difference between your products and the above 2 products mentioned?

    I hope my words does not offended you as I want to uncover the mysteries and myth here.

    Looking forward to receive your reply.

    Winson
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    • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
      Originally Posted by winsonlim View Post

      Hi Johny,
      I have received an email from Mike Filsaime about your new product launch on Money Siphon System.

      I have take a look at your salesletter and think for awhile about what kinds of information are you selling. I have read all the reviews on the post have no clue what kind of information are your selling.

      In my opinion, information products helps a marketer understand the basics of marketing and shows a specific strategy in marketing certain products and services. Be it an affiliate product or selling personal product.

      I have seen Jeff Johnson new membership product launch and he is basically covering the basics and concepts about using Web 2.0 properties to dominate Google.

      ClickBank Quantum was launched few days ago, that is one high end product and it seems to be very popular and in great demand. And the product is focusing on PPC, CPA offers and CPM.

      So my question is can you explain what is the difference between your products and the above 2 products mentioned?

      The reason why I ask as I feel that people has to understand that reading info products and watching videos does not help a person to make money online, it is when someone can provide the tools and service to help that person to get started, to have a marketing system up and running that speed up the chances of success faster.

      Nobody wants to start as a complete newbie in this business. Niches-in-a-box is one membership that provides this kind of incredible value to their members.

      I have seen a lot of product and membership launches that sells information products but did not provide the tools and service to help their members to have a website up and running. Be it, if it is a online business or offline business, in order to have a long term business, there must have a system in the business.

      The system whereby can generates residual income to the business owner in auto pilot. Yes, there is indeed, different kinds of method of making money online, but let's be truthful here, it is only a business system that will outranks the rest of the businesses and can provide a long term residual income for that individual person.

      The marketing system that I am talking about is the list building system. It is not new and neither old. If a marketer truly wants to help newbies to get started, first, we need to tell the truth, not half truth.

      Most marketers like to say in their salesletters about the half truth but not entirely the truth. In most of the sales page, there is a few keywords that seems to appear over and over again. "This system works" "No B.S" "Guranteed to make money if you apply this system" "Life changing product".

      So as a marketer, one has to focus on providing value and tell the truth to get the person to understand, what is it that one cannot afford not to do to get started in internet marketing.

      So back to my question, can you explain what is the difference between your products and the above 2 products mentioned?

      I hope my words does not offended you as I want to uncover the mysteries and myth here.

      Looking forward to receive your reply.

      Winson

      Winson,

      Wow, that's a TON of questions... Let me see if I
      can break them down:

      Haven't used all the products you talked about so
      I'm not going to be 100% able to cover everything.

      All I can tell you is what Money Siphon is/does and why:

      If you're new/struggling you have ZERO place
      getting into the PPC game. You'll lose your shirt
      and go broke so fast it'll make your head spin.

      However... if you start by using free methods
      that teach you the psychology/mechanics behind
      how this game works, you essentially get paid
      to learn.

      From there you take the same psychology/mechanics
      and apply them to different aspects of online biz.

      That would be PPC/Social Media/JV's etc...

      End result? By starting where I show you how to start
      and by applying the various techniques and systems...

      You're able to quickly and effectively build yourself a MASSIVE
      internet business from the ground up.

      I have yet to find a product that is able to teach the
      big picture from zygote to full blown adulthood.

      Regarding your list concept:

      Yes, at the end of the day you need a list... but
      the truth is if you're new and struggling or don't
      have any idea how to market (made no money)

      You don't stand a snowballs chance in hell
      of running a successful listbuilding campaign from
      day one...

      You DO however stand a chance building up
      to list building.

      THAT is what I show you how to do. Take it
      from 0 - X level. Without that reality nobody
      will ever make it.

      Hope that helps!

      Jonny
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      • Profile picture of the author winsonlim
        Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

        Winson,

        Wow, that's a TON of questions... Let me see if I
        can break them down:

        Haven't used all the products you talked about so
        I'm not going to be 100% able to cover everything.

        All I can tell you is what Money Siphon is/does and why:

        If you're new/struggling you have ZERO place
        getting into the PPC game. You'll lose your shirt
        and go broke so fast it'll make your head spin.

        However... if you start by using free methods
        that teach you the psychology/mechanics behind
        how this game works, you essentially get paid
        to learn.

        From there you take the same psychology/mechanics
        and apply them to different aspects of online biz.

        That would be PPC/Social Media/JV's etc...

        End result? By starting where I show you how to start
        and by applying the various techniques and systems...

        You're able to quickly and effectively build yourself a MASSIVE
        internet business from the ground up.

        I have yet to find a product that is able to teach the
        big picture from zygote to full blown adulthood.

        Regarding your list concept:

        Yes, at the end of the day you need a list... but
        the truth is if you're new and struggling or don't
        have any idea how to market (made no money)

        You don't stand a snowballs chance in hell
        of running a successful listbuilding campaign from
        day one...

        You DO however stand a chance building up
        to list building.

        THAT is what I show you how to do. Take it
        from 0 - X level. Without that reality nobody
        will ever make it.

        Hope that helps!

        Jonny
        Hi Jonny,

        Thanks for your reply. Btw I want to do something like a Product Launch
        to my email list. Frank Kern Mass Control and Jeff Walker Product Launch
        Formula are both great but not available and quite costly.

        So my question is does your money siphon system teaches about product
        launch?


        Can I request to buy your money siphon system resell rights if I think
        your system is good after trying?

        Winson
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        • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
          Originally Posted by winsonlim View Post

          Hi Jonny,

          Thanks for your reply. Btw I want to do something like a Product Launch
          to my email list. Frank Kern Mass Control and Jeff Walker Product Launch
          Formula are both great but not available and quite costly.

          So my question is does your money siphon system teaches about product
          launch?

          Can I request to buy your money siphon system resell rights if I think
          your system is good after trying?

          Winson
          Those are great products! I own and use both.

          The trouble you'll run into is the vast amount of
          info and scale of what needs to be done in order
          to implement those systems.

          For the new and struggling it's a very, very large
          gamble that anything will get off the ground.

          Money Siphon does not teach about launching
          your own stuff. It DOES teach about being
          an affiliate for that stuff.

          If you're into doing your own thing then you'll want
          to check out The Guru Assassin. (Soon to be pulled)

          THAT product will show you how to build a product
          from nothing. I created it in such a way so as to
          illustrate the reality of this business but also to
          show anything is possible so long as you're willing
          to keep pushing.

          You'll find success in most anything is a simple
          "lather/rinse/repeat" formula.

          Do I offer resell rights? No. Not with that stuff.

          I am about to do something a bit different where
          you'll get your own thingy... but that's either next
          month or the month after.

          Hope that helps

          Jonny
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          • Profile picture of the author edjamison
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            • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
              Originally Posted by edjamison View Post

              hey jonny,

              i emailed your support about a week ago and
              still haven't got a response.

              trying to get a download link for my mss 1.0
              version. my original download page has been
              moved or inactivated.

              also, was trying to find out if 2.0 was completely
              different or just updated?

              what's the best way to get customer service?

              thanks,
              ed
              If you sent a ticket you got a reply!

              Check your spam filter as they can sometimes
              get caught up in there.

              If you can't find it then just toss another
              in. We'll get you fixed up.

              But next time don't wait so long! If you don't
              have a response from us in at MOST 10 hours
              then don't hesitate to put another ticket through!

              We really do knock those things out quickly

              Jonny
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        • Profile picture of the author vnsv6
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      • Profile picture of the author oilmail
        I read through countless of review on it, so far all the reviews are good.

        Jo
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      • Profile picture of the author bemore
        I just cant resist, this is a bloody side of beef at the shark feeding frenzy. I cant for the life of me figure out sometimes why some people are even in this IM game or forum or any other forum.

        Acsmith- Very good on you, a voice of reason to a simple question that started this thread. Great first post, please participate again in the future with your resonable insights.

        Clumein2- instead of and before purchasing another make money system online, you should buy the first part of your name (clue). I cant believe your rant and reasoning. As was stated, you are in fact in a marketing forum, where marketers hang out. We should assume you're here to try to learn how to make money online, correct?

        Do you scream and cry at Mc D's when they ask you if you want fries with that? When you're at the car wash and they ask if you want the deluxe wash and wax? When you're eating the restaurant and they ask if you want coffee and desert after dinner? According to your statements and your general attitude, you despise the very marketers you're so desperately trying to emulate. Do you see Mike Filsaime pulling his upsells? Get real.

        Instead of throwing a tantrum when you get an upsell, which is an intimate part of every online sales process, you should instead concentrate on the actual sales system. This would be in hopes of learning the very thing you're supposedly here to do. That is to sell and be an internet marketer. Buy a two dollar ebook instead on Ebay, same process, less money.

        Sure the sales letter is hyped and the upsells are plentiful. Isn't that the whole point? To have you salivating by the time you whip out that credit card, maybe sell more than he would have originally sold, make his affiliates want to sell more for him because they make more from the upsells also, create long term JV partners when he has an extremely successful launch? He must have done a good job to have you even finish the sales letter. Success. If you ever get to the point of being that type of successful affiliate, maybe you'll understand.

        The fact that you gave a "review" of Jonny's product, which is what this thread is about, without even implementing any of the systems or even giving it an honest try (as per your own admission), suggests that you may not be cut out for this route, unless you drastically change your attitude and lose the chip on your shoulder. You did, in fact, have 60 days to give an honest review, according to Clickbank's refund policy.

        So, instead of giving your biased review, potentially damaging Jonny's product sales, without ever taking it for a test drive, you should have just gotten your refund and moved on to the next money making system that you'll probably never use. Publicly stating your opinion here, in a marketing forum full of professional seasoned marketers, without giving it a shot, surely won't win you any points here.

        I, on the other hand, have in fact bought the product and thoroughly reviewed it. I must say that yes, some of the modules are fairly basic. But he delivers exactly what he says in the sales letter, plus more. And, by the way, I haven't seen it mentioned yet for some strange reason so I'll mention it. There were included with the product as bonuses another several products that were stand alone products selling for over $50 each (one at $77). Plus several PLR ebooks, extra videos etc. Well worth the money for the course. In fact, the bonuses were worth more than the actual product.

        Have I made a million yet? No. But that's due to my own procrastination. The info is solid and workable though. Plus, you have to look at the big picture here, since you brought it up. Jonny has, in fact, made around a million or so, just on this one product. So I think you can probably assume he might know a little something about how to make money.

        It doesn't matter if he's selling a steaming dog pile, the fact is he IS a successful internet marketer. And that brings me full circle. Sometimes it's not even about the product in question. A lot of times it's about the process itself. In this case I'd say the product is good for a fairly new marketer and also has some very good concepts for the advanced marketer that will make money if they are properly implemented.

        I'm still learning also, otherwise I'd be the one selling this and not him. Sure you can find this info on the internet. Well, go find it then. Nobody asked you to buy this. Everything ever made is already available somewhere for free. What you're paying for when you buy a product is time and effort.

        Mentoring is the same concept. If you want to spend several years floundering around and still maybe never get anywhere, great. Some choose to save time and spend money instead. Cut the learning curve and hopefully learn from the successful experience of others. Most times, it 's a cheap investment if you take action as you'll normally make back much more than the cost.

        Jonny,

        I have to say, very eloquent retort on your part. Couldn't have said it better (well maybe I could have).

        One potential answer to that is I'm a HUGE bleeding heart
        who feels the need to fling copious wads of cash willy-nilly
        to any who need a "job"...
        Next time you feel the need to ...(look above), you know where to find someone. I'd be more than happy to kiss a millionaires ass in hopes if somehow, through osmosis, gaining the knowledge necessary to duplicate your success, rinse, repeat, etc. and retire next year.

        Sorry about the rant everyone, I apologize, but people that give up before they even try, then blame someone else for failure, just piss me off. I did give an honest review of MSS though. Hope it helps. P

        PS- And I hesitate to mention this but here goes.

        Clumein2- I would strongly suggest that the next product you buy is a ticket into the War Room. I give it my highest recommendation, two thumbs up, etc etc. It's $37, the best education you will ever get online, guaranteed. You can thank me later. One prerequisite though first. Cut your tongue out or become a mute before entrance into there. They tolerate even less BS than in this area. Again, hope that helps. Take care. P
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      • Profile picture of the author timpears
        Well I missed any promotion for MSS but I guess it might be good from the comments I read here. So I went to see what it was all about. I listened to a ten minute video telling me how good it was and how I could get a FREE something or other if I would just sign up and click, so I did, and I got a FREE nother ten minute video pitch and a long sales letter (that I skimmed past) to find the price.

        And low and behold, it is just $4.95. For a 7 day trial!!! So after seven days, I am going to have to pay, HOW MUCH? I guess it must be a hell of a lot because the seller is a little embarrassed to let me know. Boy I hate it when sellers try to hide the price of the product. I think I will pass as I hate to waste $5 on something that I probably can't afford anyway.
        Signature

        Tim Pears

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        • Profile picture of the author Tony X
          He's not hiding the price. It's $77. $4.95 for seven days. And then $72.05 after the seven days up.

          It's on the sales page and order form.
          Signature

          Christ Follower...

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  • Profile picture of the author Izesta
    Two things immediately hit me as "Hmmm."

    1st: The ad page for MSS says Andrews earned over $242,078.44. What does that mean? Did he earn $242,078.45? What's the point of using a dollar amount down to the exact penny, and then claim you made more? Makes no sense. Comes across as the usual attempt to persuade with numbers, but Andrews was so intent on selling with braggadocio, he lost track of the meaning.

    2nd: On the sales/ad page, there are a ton of testimonials. But most are flat, generic comments that say, "yeah, it works." Andrews himself is one of the very few who make any specific comment about whether they made the grandios profits. Wonder why some of those people aren't commenting here.

    Call me a dreamkiller, but 99% of the time, my heart believes all these so-called gurus are selling systems and that's how they are making money. Whether the system works or not is immaterial. It's selling the system that is the plan. And then the latest gotcha is to dump so much useless stuff into the package that the buyer feels like they got $77 worth of stuff even if they didn't make any money with it. After all, it's free for the marketer to send it. Just a bunch of videos and ebooks.

    My last 5 cents. When someone finds something that works like magic to bring in money online, he'she is not going to rush out and sell it to the masses UNLESS they leave out critical sections of the success plan so it cannot be duplicated OR they sell the system for a ton of money - which is what a real workable system would be worth.

    One final thought, I know marketers love the 55 mile long sales page. But when I see one, my antennae go up to the highest degree of speculation. It's probably all fluff.
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    • Profile picture of the author acsmith
      [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author Woody C
    I love that Jonny is doing something that most other marketers aren't willing to do: offer a trial period. You can test out his product for $4.95, people!

    I'm sure you can find that in the cracks of your couch. Get it and read the pdf's and watch the videos. If you don't like it then cancel...and you are out of $4.95 and come away with at least a few new ideas.

    As far as upselling goes, this is just classic marketing. Yes, it is to make the seller more money, but a lot of people will also get a great need and help out of these upsells. If they aren't for you, then don't whine and cry because ultimately you can NOT take them up on the upsells. Did you hear that? YOU have the choice. It's not like he is forcing you to pull money from your bank account.

    Rather than coming on here and bashing the sales page and sales processes of a product, how about actually giving a REVIEW of the product? That is ultimately what people on this part of the forum are looking for.
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    • Profile picture of the author cscarpero
      I bought this product when it first came out last Fall. It has some very solid concepts. The first one is the product launch siphon. This absolutely works if you get a page to rank highly on Google and its a popular product. Seems to work best on internet marketing type products. On every single product that I've promoted like this that had any success at all, I've made sales.

      The next one is CPA offers. You need to be careful with this if you do it the way Jonny outlines as the networks are cracking down on incentivizing. Still, I did a twist on this and made money.

      Jonny makes some good points about rebill offers and high end programs. I'm getting into promoting more of these lately.

      All in all a very solid course.
      Signature

      I'm an online marketer and mortgage loan officer.

      Connect with me at www.Scarpero.com

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  • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
    cscarpero, Woody Crenshaw

    You dudes rock!

    Anyway, sorry for the late response... I've been
    all cooped up answering questions for that crazy
    "elite" group of people who actually put into action
    the products in which they invest...

    For those asking if Money Siphon really "works"
    I'm not sure if you saw the guy who made like 20K...

    I know anything under 50.6 BILLION in 85 seconds
    isn't really worth talking about... but us info
    Product publishers just have to make due with
    what we have

    On the other hand.. and this isn't about me
    tooting my own horn...

    ...But maybe, just maybe there's a reason I hired a
    full time guy to sit around and implement MY OWN
    products for me in multiple markets...

    One potential answer to that is I'm a HUGE bleeding heart
    who feels the need to fling copious wads of cash willy-nilly
    to any who need a "job"...

    The other answer... um... that one I'll let you stew on for
    a while.

    Jonny

    PS: acsmith, dude, I JUST read that thingy about you and me
    on Twitter. I don't run my own Twitter account!

    I let an affiliate set it up and since then I've had
    to pull back and start a totally new one which I
    still can't seem to find the time to check.

    So if you were dissed, it was not by me personally!

    That's not how I operate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave d
    I took the trial and I was very dissapointed. It took nearly 2 days to download everything so I was expecting something really good here.

    The videos were really painful to watch. It was like this is clicbank, this is a gravity score, this is joint venture forum, this a squidoo lens etc etc and on and on it went.

    Fine if your completely new and know zero about IM other wise you will be bored rigid.

    The information in MSS is very generalised and more of an overview of techniques with the exception of the PPC siphon.

    I was really dissapointed that the MSS did not go into detail on methods or techniques for creating projetcs.

    Now this is a WARNING for anybody thinking of trying this. The trial was extremely difficult to cancel and I think this is a really bad way of doing business Johnny.

    Compared to something like the SE Nuke trial where you just go into your Pay Pal and just cancel your trial, MSS was a nightmare.

    On the 4th day I requested a refund through the help desk and on the 5th day I read a mail that said I must do it through clickbank which was fine, however Clickbank said they would pass that on to the merchant which would take x amount of days to process and then once they got the request it would take another x amount of days to cancel, by that time we would have gone well past the trial. I sent a very stern email to support again requesting they cancel immediately and wondering what was the point in all this when I originally contaced the merchant who told me to go to Clickbank who would then send my request to the merchant ?

    In the end I just cancelled my credit card . Yes the $4.95 trial is too good to be true so beware.

    Dave
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    • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
      Originally Posted by Dave d View Post

      I took the trial and I was very dissapointed. It took nearly 2 days to download everything so I was expecting something really good here.

      The videos were really painful to watch. It was like this is clicbank, this is a gravity score, this is joint venture forum, this a squidoo lens etc etc and on and on it went.

      Fine if your completely new and know zero about IM other wise you will be bored rigid.

      The information in MSS is very generalised and more of an overview of techniques with the exception of the PPC siphon.

      I was really dissapointed that the MSS did not go into detail on methods or techniques for creating projetcs.

      Now this is a WARNING for anybody thinking of trying this. The trial was extremely difficult to cancel and I think this is a really bad way of doing business Johnny.

      Compared to something like the SE Nuke trial where you just go into your Pay Pal and just cancel your trial, MSS was a nightmare.

      On the 4th day I requested a refund through the help desk and on the 5th day I read a mail that said I must do it through clickbank which was fine, however Clickbank said they would pass that on to the merchant which would take x amount of days to process and then once they got the request it would take another x amount of days to cancel, by that time we would have gone well past the trial. I sent a very stern email to support again requesting they cancel immediately and wondering what was the point in all this when I originally contaced the merchant who told me to go to Clickbank who would then send my request to the merchant ?

      In the end I just cancelled my credit card . Yes the $4.95 trial is too good to be true so beware.

      Dave
      Dude. Really?

      ClickBank was easy before... but now with their
      new ticket system all you have to do is click a link!

      Sorry you had a hard time, but you may want to dig
      a bit deeper into the reason why

      Jonny
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    • Profile picture of the author 2bwealthy
      Originally Posted by Dave d View Post

      I took the trial and I was very dissapointed. It took nearly 2 days to download everything so I was expecting something really good here.

      The videos were really painful to watch. It was like this is clicbank, this is a gravity score, this is joint venture forum, this a squidoo lens etc etc and on and on it went.

      Fine if your completely new and know zero about IM other wise you will be bored rigid.

      The information in MSS is very generalised and more of an overview of techniques with the exception of the PPC siphon.

      I was really dissapointed that the MSS did not go into detail on methods or techniques for creating projetcs.

      Now this is a WARNING for anybody thinking of trying this. The trial was extremely difficult to cancel and I think this is a really bad way of doing business Johnny.

      Compared to something like the SE Nuke trial where you just go into your Pay Pal and just cancel your trial, MSS was a nightmare.

      On the 4th day I requested a refund through the help desk and on the 5th day I read a mail that said I must do it through clickbank which was fine, however Clickbank said they would pass that on to the merchant which would take x amount of days to process and then once they got the request it would take another x amount of days to cancel, by that time we would have gone well past the trial. I sent a very stern email to support again requesting they cancel immediately and wondering what was the point in all this when I originally contaced the merchant who told me to go to Clickbank who would then send my request to the merchant ?

      In the end I just cancelled my credit card . Yes the $4.95 trial is too good to be true so beware.

      Dave
      Its sold through Clickbank , which basically means ask for a refund and you get it. no questions asked.... also you have upto 60 days to do this. They also saw 3-5 business days, however I have gotten refunds with 24hrs.
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  • Profile picture of the author matreatza
    Thanks a lot guys for these tips
    Signature
    CPA Arbitrage Review- your life changing at a distance of a single click
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  • Profile picture of the author Revalga
    Is this program available worldwide? I'm from Indonesia btw.
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  • Profile picture of the author genietoast
    I'm checking out this thread as much as possible about MSS. One thing I've noted so far that I'm impressed with is that the owner of the product actually talks to you on this forum.

    Folks, one thing I've learned in the past year of IM is that the customer service you receive from the creator of the product is a tell-tale sign of his interest in your success. I've had gurus come out and downright call me on the phone which was awesome. That time I was so new I couldn't tell the difference from the left side and right side of internet marketing and I was still confused.

    After fumbling for a year and burning my britches, I have a better concept of all the different methods that are out there and a stronger grasp of what to look for.

    Some creators may talk to you via an eBook or a video, but when you get to their "so-called" customer service, they never answer or give you very obscure answers. That's when you have to start watching your back because they could be a scammer, but it seems like Jonny will frankly answer your questions any time. So that's a good thing.

    The upsell thing--I've seen it. No need to worry. It's just part of business. You can always skip it if you're not interested, but it's a way to get new people with new products noticed. One day some of you will be creating your own products and would love to joint venture with a well known source, saving you time and advertising dollars.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mitch Miller
    Yes Jonny answers emails. Imagine that.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
    Wow! Ooodles of activity! Good times indeed

    Bemore, thanks for that totally sweet write up!

    Anyway, yea, I try to help folks out when I can.

    Obviously things have become crazy (when you break
    the 10 - 15K list mark) it's virtually impossible to
    work 1-on-1 with everybody... and I think I'm over
    60K now.

    That's why I hired a staff!

    Such is the way of business... when something
    grows beyond the bounds of one person, that person
    must then put systems + other people in place to
    continue the flow.

    Seriously. I had to redirect ALL my response emails
    through a different address because I now receive over
    500+ per day.

    NOBODY can take care of that. So now everybody who
    emails is given very specific instructions on how to contact
    myself and my staff along with a FAQ.

    The system works like a charm!

    But more to the point... people who want
    refunds get them... like everybody has said:

    It a freaking ClickBank product!!!

    My customer service is solid and I keep making
    it better by updating my employees training and
    trying to keep tabs on the majority of what's being
    asked...

    I even take care of some tickets myself.

    Final Note: I'm launching a totally new blog and
    if anyone wants to see what this stuff is about
    before buying, I'll be posting a direct link in a
    few days.

    Monday I'm thinking.

    Just did a 3 part video series on a totally sweet
    business model you'll really like.

    Oh yea, and the new blog graphics are beyond
    cool... you'll see what I mean when I post next week.

    Until them, I'm off to my first vacation in around 5-6 years!

    Wish me luck.

    No really. I actually don't know how to relax anymore

    Jonny
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    • Profile picture of the author Jane Q. Public
      I just now came across this forum, as I was checking some background on MSS before I decided to buy in. After all, there are so many scams out there...

      I want to reinforce some of what was stated a while ago by "cluemein", but my motive for doing so is constructive.

      I have purchased several packages that were intended to supply me with good information on internet marketing. The majority of them ARE scams. Now, here's the problem:

      When somebody who has already been stung pays out their few bucks, then goes to a new page where right in front of their nose is the IMPLICATION that "if you don't buy into my upsell product, you just wasted your money", they are going to be pissed off, because that is exactly what all those scams do.

      Johnny's product may be genuine. Maybe the trial is a complete product in itself. But when it is marketed in a way that is so similar to those scams, people who have had bad past experiences are going to associate MSS with those scams. You can't have it both ways.

      All I'm saying is: "cluemein" had a valid point. The upsell gave him the wrong impression, and THAT SHOULD BE NO SURPRISE, because it was presented to him in the same way as all those other scams.

      I am not saying that Johnny should remove his upsell... but maybe it could be presented in a way that more clearly expresses his honest intent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lonny Eachus
    Question for Jonny Andrews:

    I just went to purchase my $4.95 trial. It went to clickbank, and I paid via PayPal (I took screenshots at each step). Clickbank took my money, and I was forwarded to a new page (asking me if I wanted to buy the upsell)... and something happened to the browser. Now I have no way to get in to the program... I have two email confirmations with links, but they don't do anything for me... the best I have managed to find is a login screen with username and password fields... but I don't have a username or password!

    I went to the "forgot my password" page, and tried the email address I used on signing up, and it says it does not recognize that address. I then tried the address that is on my paypal account, and it says it sent me my password in an email... I have done this twice now, it has been hours, and I do not have any new emails in that account.

    So what the hell am I supposed to do? I don't have a customer support number or address, or anything else. Just my clickbank and paypal receipts.
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    • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
      Originally Posted by Lonny Eachus View Post

      Question for Jonny Andrews:

      I just went to purchase my $4.95 trial. It went to clickbank, and I paid via PayPal (I took screenshots at each step). Clickbank took my money, and I was forwarded to a new page (asking me if I wanted to buy the upsell)... and something happened to the browser. Now I have no way to get in to the program... I have two email confirmations with links, but they don't do anything for me... the best I have managed to find is a login screen with username and password fields... but I don't have a username or password!

      I went to the "forgot my password" page, and tried the email address I used on signing up, and it says it does not recognize that address. I then tried the address that is on my paypal account, and it says it sent me my password in an email... I have done this twice now, it has been hours, and I do not have any new emails in that account.

      So what the hell am I supposed to do? I don't have a customer support number or address, or anything else. Just my clickbank and paypal receipts.
      Yo! Been away for a bit...

      In your ClickBank receipt there is an email address
      for customer service along with a direct link to the
      help desk.

      Send a message to that email and you will
      get an instant response with the following info:

      #1: How to get really fast help
      #2: EXACTLY how to login to the download area
      #3: Info on just about everything else you need.

      That'll fix you up in less than 2 minutes.

      Jonny

      PS: I see that a lot of folks are semi/sorta asking about
      the validity of stuff... I just put up a totally new blog
      with a really cool 4 part (was going to be a 3 part) video
      series.

      (Nothing to buy) http://www.JonnyAndrewsBlog.com

      There's even a cool little video of when I took my girlfriend
      and kid up para sailing at 1200 feet. Good times
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    Well I saw the $4.95 multiple times, and I didn't see the full price, so I scanned up and down to try and find another price, but never did see it. So it is not displayed very clearly. Practices like this always make me think twice about doing business with a vendor.
    Signature

    Tim Pears

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  • Profile picture of the author Mitch Miller
    Before you make an unfounded accusation, maybe you should actually read instead of scan. Otherwise you just kinda look foolish.
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    • Profile picture of the author timpears
      Originally Posted by Mitch Miller View Post

      Before you make an unfounded accusation, maybe you should actually read instead of scan. Otherwise you just kinda look foolish.
      Ditto, back at you. Maybe you should read what I wrote and try to understand the words better. I will not try to explain it to you as it is not that important. Obviously the $4.95 was promoted heavily, but the actual price is not. Which is a tactic that many unscrupulous marketers use to take advantage of unwary people. Is that what is happening here? I have no idea. I will not be buying, so it is irrelevant to me.

      I don't think I am accusing anyone of anything, just making some observations. But even if I am, it is my opinion, and am entitled to it.
      Signature

      Tim Pears

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      • Profile picture of the author ShaneBoyd
        I'm new here so don't freak out with my post. Savy? I bought Jonny's MSS about a month ago. And like most...I haven't made a dime in that month. But I didn't expect to either.

        Now, I'm not a TOTAL dunce with the IM bus. In Sept. of 2008 I created an info product doing interviews. I wanted to enter a niche, however I was not an expert so I interviewed experts. I was an expert by association so to speak. Like 7 interviews with the PDF transcripts. Over 6 hours of MP3 and like 100 pages of transciptions.

        It cost me about $3000 to start and promote this. I quickly found 2 JV partners sold like a hundred units...made no money. Did not even break even.

        Turned out I didn't like the niche I wanted to be a "guru" in. They were a tight fisted bunch and all they wanted was "freebies". You know, free consultations, newsletters, daily tips, tele-seminars and such. I did all that.

        Well, I shut that bus. down in December of 2008 and said SCREW IT!

        Point here is this...If I would've had the MSS I could have approached that whole venture A LOT differently. I wouldn't have lost my shirt, that's for sure.

        Now, back to the MSS. I've been using this for a month. (BTW, I have a full time career. I own a home inspection firm, so I work about 40 hours a week ON and IN my business). On days I'm not inspecting I'm implementing what Jonny teaches. Squidoo and message boards, tinyurl, JV launches, etc.

        One day my wife asks me..."Have you made any money yet with that thing you bought" Ugh! My answer was a sharp..NO.

        She says: "well, when you're home all day on the computer for like 8-10 hours...what are you doing? I mean you work all day, don't show me what you do, haven't made any money with it. What do you do?"

        So I had to break it down for her. "Sigh, here's what I do..." And I showed her, Clickbank, JV Launches, Squidoo and all sites I've built (which all suck so far) Twitter, Tinyurl, bitly, message boards, review sites.

        And I said "Basically I paid 70 some bucks to LEARN how to become a successful internet marketer" And she got it!...I did too.

        Her reply: "I'm going to college to LEARN how to be a teacher. For the next several YEARS I won't make a dime. But when I finish, I'll make $30,000-$40,000 a year with benefits. You're kinda doing the same thing"

        She's right. Then I got it.

        Sorry for this freakishly long post. But the MSS if for newbies. You're not going to make a fortune right out of the gate. But Jonny SO over delivers is sick.

        The freebies you get with the MSS are more than worth the price of the MSS. (Something I learned from GKIC and IMA). Things like...affilate extreme system with Mark Ling and The Rat Race Annihilation. Plus audios out the wazoo.

        In a nut shell. Thanks Jonny for the MSS.

        Something I did learn from GKIC, if you buy an info product for say $300. And you get ONE nugget out of it that can help you earn and extra $5,000 that year. Well, that's a pretty damn good investment.

        Peace.

        Thanks for having me on the board folks and I'm looking forward to learning from you all.

        Later,

        Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
        Originally Posted by timpears View Post

        Ditto, back at you. Maybe you should read what I wrote and try to understand the words better. I will not try to explain it to you as it is not that important. Obviously the $4.95 was promoted heavily, but the actual price is not. Which is a tactic that many unscrupulous marketers use to take advantage of unwary people. Is that what is happening here? I have no idea. I will not be buying, so it is irrelevant to me.

        I don't think I am accusing anyone of anything, just making some observations. But even if I am, it is my opinion, and am entitled to it.
        I feel ya, but at the same time if you
        look at the letter...

        ... the clickbank order form...
        ... the 'thank you' page...
        ... your welcome email...
        ... your receipt...

        And basically every other piece of info
        you get before or after purchase you'll notice
        I've taken great pains to spell everything out.

        One of the major reasons I've been able to achieve
        some great success is very simply this:

        I don't like to screw people.

        The price/terms/process is always spelled out.

        Hope that helps make things a bit more clear for you.

        Jonny

        PS: Shane. THANK YOU for pointing out the obvious...
        everything we do is a process. When people buy
        this stuff it's an investment in education.

        Money Siphon was made to show people how to
        start at the beginning and build up to the advanced.

        Does it work? Yup.
        Even the dude with the blog who said he hated it
        still made money.

        The big difference in the IM Products you purchase
        vs. a formal education is this:

        IF you apply what you learn inside the products
        you stand a pretty good chance of making actual
        money in 30 - 90 days...

        IF you apply what you learn in college it'll take you
        at least 2 years + tens of thousands of $$$ just
        to get a job... from that job you'll then have to work
        off your student loans for the next decade...

        Having spent 4 years in college ($23,000/year NOT
        including room and board) I can honestly say these
        little "make money online" systems have been the
        greatest personal investment I've ever made.

        In college I basically learned how to drink a lot
        of beer through a plastic tube.

        Not saying you need to buy my stuff... but just
        look at the numbers:

        $77 + some effort = HUGE potential for wealth
        in a fairly short period of time

        VS:

        $23,000 x 4 years + HUGE effort = Guaranteed debt +
        years at a low wage job (if you even get hired) +
        a 99% chance you'll end your life deep in debt and
        always wondering what could have been.

        Pretty easy choice if you ask me

        At the end of the day I personally spend around
        $15,000 per quarter on "Make Money Online" products
        and coaching.

        I then put them to use and watch my income grow
        on a weekly basis.

        But that's the difference... I put them to use.

        Like when I dropped around $2000 (not including
        flight/hotel/food) to hit Yaniks event in DC...
        (Flew 1st class so the event cost just under $10K total)

        ... 1 dude I met there + 1 hour on the phone after
        the event turned into over $33,000 in profit.
        (and that's just ONE person...)

        And it's still coming in!

        That roughly $10K investment (which was super fun
        btw) already paid for itself and because of the relationship
        I developed is going to ad another 7 figures to my bottom
        line over the next 12 - 18 months.

        Totally good times.

        Now... I've procrastinated enough here! Time to
        get back to "work"

        Have to prep for a nationally syndicated radio
        interview...

        Muwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
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  • Profile picture of the author tacwol
    hola Jonny,
    Is Money Siphon System still available?
    I purchase the program several years ago, but the site does not seem to be available...
    is there any resource or different site we can access for our purchase, in this current days?
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