Whats your thoughts on Profit Instruments?

16 years ago

The PNK, Product Name Keyword concept is something of note that I get from the opening video. Its very true I believe what he says regarding 'Buyer' Traffic rather than traffic searching for a broader keyword relating to your niche.

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AffiliateMax

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Samuel Baker

The PNK, Product Name Keyword concept is something of note that I get from the opening video. Its very true I believe what he says regarding 'Buyer' Traffic rather than traffic searching for a broader keyword relating to your niche.

In theory yes - but looking at his stats:
http://launch.profitinstruments.com/...s/earning4.gif
the conversion ratio is awful, as low as 0.37% conversion to leads from clicks (and that is from the people who clicked on the links from his site to the offer - how many others just hit the back button?) (His overall conversion for the month is only 0.54% - out of 83,008 visitors 82,638 did not convert!).

Normally if you had a site built around a PNK like SonyBDPS370.com for example (ignoring the obvious trademark issues for the moment!) you would expect MUCH higher conversions than that. For a specific merchant name you would get even higher conversions (well over 10%) eg: buyzappos-shoes.com IF they allowed you to do that (which obviously in most cases they don't!)

Also as an aside if he is getting thousands of visitors a day to a diet product site and only getting around 0.5% of those who click on his links to sign up to the 'offer' he could be offering an opt in email list to get peoples emails for future promotions rather than over 99% of his valuable, qualified niche traffic being lost forever. Marketing 101 surely?

If he wanted to help his site visitors; rather than pushing an unethical cpa offer he could say we DON'T recommend this offer because... but we do recommend... and offer a better alternative to his visitors instead? Given the current extremely low conversion ratio he could actually potentially make more money this way AND have a clean conscience AND offer his visitors something of value rather than sending them to a 'free' trial offer of dubious value. Win win all round. Adsense might be another option (high $ per click in this niche) if a good quality affiliate offer was not available.

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Quincy

16 years ago

Originally Posted by AffiliateMax

In theory yes - but looking at his stats:
the conversion ratio is awful, as low as 0.37% conversion to leads from clicks (and that is from the people who clicked on the links from his site to the offer - how many others just hit the back button?) (His overall conversion for the month is only 0.54% - out of 83,008 visitors 82,638 did not convert!).

Normally if you had a site built around a PNK like SonyBDPS370.com for example (ignoring the obvious trademark issues for the moment!) you would expect MUCH higher conversions than that. For a specific merchant name you would get even higher conversions (well over 10%) eg: buyzappos-shoes.com IF they allowed you to do that (which obviously in most cases they don't!)

Also as an aside if he is getting thousands of visitors a day to a diet product site and only getting around 0.5% of those who click on his links to sign up to the 'offer' he could be offering an opt in email list to get peoples emails for future promotions rather than over 99% of his valuable, qualified niche traffic being lost forever. Marketing 101 surely?

If he wanted to help his site visitors; rather than pushing an unethical cpa offer he could say we DON'T recommend this offer because... but we do recommend... and offer a better alternative to his visitors instead? Given the current extremely low conversion ratio he could actually potentially make more money this way AND have a clean conscience AND offer his visitors something of value rather than sending them to a 'free' trial offer of dubious value. Win win all round. Adsense might be another option (high $ per click in this niche) if a good quality affiliate offer was not available.

I hear you. But I'm wondering if this is a fair assessment for one of his typical sites. Most marketers I know experience a typical 1% -1.5% CTR. However they get substantially lower CTRs for the IM product niche. Maybe others experiences differ, though. However, I love to get stats for one of his non-IM niches.

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spartanic

16 years ago

The product actually hasn't launched. Just looking for opinions on the pre-launch material.

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CianMcCarthy Banned 16 years ago

I've heard good things about this
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excoder01

16 years ago

Great concept -- but aren't there tons of similar products?

Find an offer, create a blog around the product, and promote that blog.

75% of products follow that formula but differ in what they promote and how they promote it.

Now, he makes $14K+ a month just on that one blog, which I think is good.

The question -- can it be duplicated without the flooding the market? Some product might work for 5 people, but when 1,000 are doing the same thing, it saturates the market.

Also, be careful of what product you promote. That Green tea product has similar problem with the **** berry product -- both have hidden charges and known to scam people. Hopefully, the product goes into what kind of products to promote...

Reading the blog comments on the product launch site, I can already tell people are sticking their tongue out and drooling a lot...

"Wow, great idea -- I can retire now!"
"I will buy it and become rich!"
"Thanks you're the best -- now, I can pay my bills and buy groceries now..."

Do these people realize it's not "easy" money? Looks like the "get rich quick" crowd will buy the product.

The "latest and greatest" product launch hype is beginning its cycle again...

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psresearch

16 years ago

Originally Posted by excoder01

Great concept -- but aren't there tons of similar products?

Find an offer, create a blog around the product, and promote that blog.

75% of products follow that formula but differ in what they promote and how they promote it.

Now, he makes $14K+ a month just on that one blog, which I think is good.

The question -- can it be duplicated without the flooding the market? Some product might work for 5 people, but when 1,000 are doing the same thing, it saturates the market.

There are about a bazillion products to promote - so I think it's doubtful that would ever be an issue.

But I agree with you that so far it looks like the same old stuff that MANY other products have already covered.

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airbusbarkley

16 years ago

I admit this is not an entirely new concept, as I have been using this model in article writing as an affiliate for Amazon. However, I am not getting anywhere near the Profit Instrument kind of success (I think a lot of that has to do with amazon cookies only lasting 24 hours).

I wonder how many sites Ritoban built before he landed on the green tea winner and how he gets around the trademark issue in the domain name. The SEO steps and product selection criteria seem to be what sets this system apart from others. I noticed on the affiliate page there is an upsale of an SEO WP Plugin, two versions, a regular and a lite. I wonder if this is a unique plugin for PI or one that already exists and what the difference is between the two versions as they are not inexpensive. However, I imagine worth it if it gets your page ranked in the top 10. It will be interesting to see what else the PI system reveals in the next videos and what the actual product offer is.

Nothing in IM is "get rich quick" other than the guru's sales pitches. I believe you have to pick a system that appeals to you and your skill level and TAKE ACTION! To quote Brian Johnson of Commission Ritual, "People DO NOT fail at internet marketing, they simply give up before the magic happens".

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Maestrok12

16 years ago

Originally Posted by airbusbarkley

I admit this is not an entirely new concept, as I have been using this model in article writing as an affiliate for Amazon. However, I am not getting anywhere near the Profit Instrument kind of success (I think a lot of that has to do with amazon cookies only lasting 24 hours).

I wonder how many sites Ritoban built before he landed on the green tea winner and how he gets around the trademark issue in the domain name. The SEO steps and product selection criteria seem to be what sets this system apart from others. I noticed on the affiliate page there is an upsale of an SEO WP Plugin, two versions, a regular and a lite. I wonder if this is a unique plugin for PI or one that already exists and what the difference is between the two versions as they are not inexpensive. However, I imagine worth it if it gets your page ranked in the top 10. It will be interesting to see what else the PI system reveals in the next videos and what the actual product offer is.

Nothing in IM is "get rich quick" other than the guru's sales pitches. I believe you have to pick a system that appeals to you and your skill level and TAKE ACTION! To quote Brian Johnson of Commission Ritual, "People DO NOT fail at internet marketing, they simply give up before the magic happens".

EXACTLY...Nothing is "GET RICH QUICK" in IM. Once you execute your strategy you can make money quickly. But getting to the pointofbeing able to execute takes time. Even with a step-by-step. Truthis no one ever gives an exact step-by-step. I thinkits impossible b/c every market andpersons "why behind the what" is different.

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AffiliateMax

16 years ago

Originally Posted by excoder01

Also, be careful of what product you promote. That Green tea product has similar problem with the **** berry product -- both have hidden charges and known to scam people.

Indeed - and most of those scammy/deceptive cpa offers change their brand/product name for a new one on a regular basis, as the name crops up on rip-off reports, complaint boards etc.

For example one company used all these "brand"/product names for the same teeth whitening product offer (and they were not the only ones to do this):

zaa zoom white
true color whitener
pro whites
smile n glow
artic whites
go smile white
hollywood teeth whitener
celebrity whites
pro whitener
oral whites
everbrite whites
glowhite smile

The most likely reason for the frequent name changes was the volume of complaints online about high ongoing monthly charges hidden in the small print and difficulties in cancelling these. The same company also had various other rebill trial "offers" for all the other 'usual suspects' - ****, resveratrol, colon cleansers, work at home etc. These companies don't care about building a business and a brand long term or about their customers - it's all about getting as much money as they can in as little amount of time as possible.

Companies who are in business for the long haul DO care about their brand name and reputation and are unlikely to allow affiliates to use it in domain names - in fact if you read the terms and conditions of many merchants they specifically mention no use of their brand name in domains as a condition of their programme. Knowing how some unethical affiliates promote products online - if you had devoted time and money in marketing and building up a reputation for your business and brand would you allow affiliates to use it in their domain names?

So it's unlikely to work for many cpa offers as they change 'product names' so frequently (not that I promote these for obvious reasons but clearly Ritoban and many of his 'followers' are happy to do so) and it's also unlikely to work for other more mainstream/established merchants due to them not allowing it.

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sc262626

16 years ago

Originally Posted by excoder01

Great concept -- but aren't there tons of similar products?

Find an offer, create a blog around the product, and promote that blog.

75% of products follow that formula but differ in what they promote and how they promote it.

Now, he makes $14K+ a month just on that one blog, which I think is good.

The question -- can it be duplicated without the flooding the market? Some product might work for 5 people, but when 1,000 are doing the same thing, it saturates the market.

Also, be careful of what product you promote. That Green tea product has similar problem with the **** berry product -- both have hidden charges and known to scam people. Hopefully, the product goes into what kind of products to promote...

Reading the blog comments on the product launch site, I can already tell people are sticking their tongue out and drooling a lot...

"Wow, great idea -- I can retire now!"
"I will buy it and become rich!"
"Thanks you're the best -- now, I can pay my bills and buy groceries now..."

Do these people realize it's not "easy" money? Looks like the "get rich quick" crowd will buy the product.

The "latest and greatest" product launch hype is beginning its cycle again...

Hi Guys,

I did a bit of research on this and his $14k site, the tea one (www choyung.net/) has something like 632 external links and 600+ LD. This is more than just PNK, SEO and a 'few backlinks".
This is not to take away from his success, only to lift the veil slightly so people aren't mislead who plan to buy it. It obviously works as he ranks high for several high traffic, high comp keywords for that site, only there is more work than implied.

Good luck.

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

Originally Posted by sc262626

Hi Guys,

I did a bit of research on this and his $14k site, the tea one (www choyung.net/) has something like 632 external links and 600+ LD. This is more than just PNK, SEO and a 'few backlinks".
.

I did the same, made me chuckle a bit.

The funny thing is he could have simply created a back linking module
and this program would had real value past what is a nicely packaged
sniper site product.

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1 reply

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Justin Wheeler 16 years ago

Daniel Tan's bonus for this was a 22 site link wheel and two press releases submitted plus a couple of other odds and ends which almost made it worth buying.....

Thought the videos were great. Whoever did the voiceover has a fantastic voice!
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AffiliateMax

16 years ago

Originally Posted by excoder01

Also, be careful of what product you promote. That Green tea product has similar problem with the **** berry product -- both have hidden charges and known to scam people.

And by choosing that site as an example in his promo videos, surely he is saying it is okay to scam people? (after all he is doing it and is now 'teaching' other people how to do it). If you promote an offer which you know is a scam then that makes you a part of the scam in my book. The attitude seems to be who cares about the people who get ripped off as long as we make lots of money?

Which also means that all the people who promoted Profit Instruments to their lists (Chris Carpenter, Mark Ling, Anik Singal, Brad Callen, Matt Callen etc etc) are also ignoring the fact that the example site in Profit Instruments is promoting a scam? So they are okay with that? These people are supposed to be 'teachers' / 'leaders' / 'experts' (or whatever you want to call them) - people who others (especially newbies) look to for advice on marketing and are supposed to 'lead by example'?

I have to agree 100% with Gary's post here:

"Why is that so many intelligent gurus conveniently "look the other way" as long as they make a good buck.
Unfortunately Rituban's flagship green tea is a prime example.
Sure he is making a fortune on this offer and the crooks behind it but what about all the trusting consumers that are being ripped off with multiple charges to their account after signing up for 4.95 trial offer?"
From post at: http://www.warriorforum.com/ad-netwo...ml#post2180110

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

It's solid, very much like Google Sniper , more professionally packaged and polished
with a different keyword choice equation.

He's done a nice job with it, ultimately it's all down to picking a buying keyword,
getting a domain match, writing some keyword rich content, adding it to the domain
back linking it. banking.

Thanks
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psresearch

16 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

It's solid, very much like Google Sniper , more professionally packaged and polished
with a different keyword choice equation.

He's done a nice job with it, ultimately it's all down to picking a buying keyword,
getting a domain match, writing some keyword rich content, adding it to the domain
back linking it. banking.

Yeh. After reviewing the second video it's a bit more thorough than I first thought. Will be interesting to see what the $197 includes since the free videos were probably enough for a lot of people.

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contactscape

16 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

It's solid, very much like Google Sniper , more professionally packaged and polished
with a different keyword choice equation.

He's done a nice job with it, ultimately it's all down to picking a buying keyword,
getting a domain match, writing some keyword rich content, adding it to the domain
back linking it. banking.

I second that.

I too thought it had close resemblance to Google Sniper in terms of functionality, but generally more touched up cosmetically, which is never a bad thing.

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Justin Wheeler

16 years ago

Its being recommended by Daniel Tan of the extremely good value Warrior Forum Special Offers so that makes it stick out to me. Have to say he is giving out good free content in his videos, but I think it will be an expensive course and to be honest think that you could do better by saving your money, and investing in a couple of WSOs that cover similar subjects or just be persistent with your trial and error!!

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TiffanyB 16 years ago

In the videos he recommends buying a domain name that has the product name in the domain. Can't you get in trouble with certain products if you try to use a domain with the product name in the domain? I have heard people getting their sites shut down because they used a product name in their domain name. This may not be the case so much for products on Clickbank but more for physical products and CPA offers.
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excoder01

16 years ago

As long as the name is not trademarked, you should be fine.

Now, is he recommending buying the domain name of the product for SEO purpose or branding?

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ChrisG

16 years ago

haven't seen anything in the videos worth the $200 price tag
also be prepared for $500 worth of upsells

Profit Instruments: Exclusive VIP JV Invite

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Valuegiver

16 years ago

I tried the system using Clickbank after viewing all the pre-launch videos and reading the pdf. What I found was that many Clickbank products with high gravity (above 30) had high competition for the Product Name Keyword phrase match in a Google search and had to be ruled out. The higher the gravity the higher the competition in most cases. I did eventually find a few products with competition under 20,000. These tended to be at the lower end of the gravity range or were at the high end but were new launches. The thing is -- Ritoban misleads everyone when he states that Clickbank products are getting a lot of searches if they have a gravity of over 30.

In fact, most of the products above 30 gravity with low competition were dead in the water when it came to search volume, and after looking at dozens, only a few were viable, but not particularly impressive. Since the Google Keyword Tool often exaggerates search volume figures to begin with and since the number one spot only gets 42% of the search volume which drops off substantially as you move to 2nd and 3rd place and beyond, counting on organic traffic in order to succeed with profit instruments seems questionable at best.

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LasseKohau 16 years ago

I agree with Simon H. The concept seems very similar to GB Sniper.

In fact, GB covers also this method in the Sniper manual, (light-version).

It seems like a great product, to get starting in IM, but you do also expect a lot for 200 dollars in the IM world.

Having top-marketers promote or influence your product launch, says nothing about your succesrate with the product itself. They just recommend the product by name. Dont forget, they will also get a piece of the cake.

Sometimes, I think a lot of IM´s forget the background of new product launches

- WHAT IS IM ALL ABOUT ?, Its about making money. Dont forget that.

I think this thread had another great advice about WSO. Many of the warriors in here, are top-marketers and thier WSO´s are just fantastic.

You can get a lot of high quality and over-delivered WSO-materiel for 200 dollars.

It has been told many times in this forum, but it cant be told enough !!!!

Pick one product, make it work for you, get it up and running, make some money on it.

F.X, If I purchased PI for 200 dollars, I would have a target saying, that I at least should make 600 dollars of the product, due to tax-regulations in Denmark.

On top of that, I will put 400 dollars for domains and hosting in a 4 month period.

Then, when I have made 1000 dollars, I had done a complete 100 ROI %, and I can continue on other methods or buy another system, while in the same time - building PI´s in the background.

The last lines are not directed to Ritoban C, but should be read more as a generalization of product launches.
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Andy Hart

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Valuegiver

I tried the system using Clickbank after viewing all the pre-launch videos and reading the pdf. What I found was that many Clickbank products with high gravity (above 30) had high competition for the Product Name Keyword phrase match in a Google search and had to be ruled out. The higher the gravity the higher the competition in most cases. I did eventually find a few products with competition under 20,000. These tended to be at the lower end of the gravity range or were at the high end but were new launches. The thing is -- Ritoban misleads everyone when he states that Clickbank products are getting a lot of searches if they have a gravity of over 30.

In fact, most of the products above 30 gravity with low competition were dead in the water when it came to search volume, and after looking at dozens, only a few were viable, but not particularly impressive. Since the Google Keyword Tool often exaggerates search volume figures to begin with and since the number one spot only gets 42% of the search volume which drops off substantially as you move to 2nd and 3rd place and beyond, counting on organic traffic in order to succeed with profit instruments seems questionable at best.

It amazes me people still create products with out dated formulas, telling you to target keywords with "X" amount of competing results.

The amount of competing pages is completly irrelvant, its the strengh of your competition, thats what matters. I would take 10 million poorly optimized pages over 5 single highly optimized and trusted pages any day of the week.

The only sites you need to analyze are the 10 sites on the first page, I even forget the bottom half of the page and focus on the top fold, if I can't get in the top fold then forget it! I dont care how many competing pages there are if the top 5 spots are "beatable".

Also the forumla of "pick a product with "X" gravity" is also dated and pointless IMHO.

There are many products under that desired gravity that sell like hot cakes but newbies don't look at them due to these out dated and STILL preached methods.

DO NOT limit yourself to just Clickbank either, its just madness.

Just my Opinion of course.

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Andy

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Quincy

16 years ago

I purchased the product today and posted my experience thus far. However, pearsonbrown felt they were inappropriate and deleted them. I think people deserve to hear the uncensored truth. However I doubt that he will let you see my comment. I don't think telling your experience with a product is bashing the product. However, I doubt if pearsonbrown will reconsider his actions. Hmmm.... I wonder if this too will be deleted.

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Dana Forsythe 16 years ago

Honestly, the PNK concept has been around for ages and is already over-saturated. I did it for awhile about a year ago. It was ok but not great. Half the time you'd build a site and then the product would be canceled. However, a friend of mine still does it and he is still generating form it.
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Fallen_Angel

16 years ago

I would say PNK works but choose products You Believe in. Do not pick products for sake of money believe in what you sell and your customers probably will be satisfied and buy from your recommendations again.

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MajorTom 16 years ago

Help a newbie out, please. What is PNK? Point N Klick? Point N Krap? Point N Kuddle?

Seriously, that's a new one on this new guy.

Thanks.

David
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- Morrigan 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MajorTom
  
  Help a newbie out, please. What is PNK? Point N Klick? Point N Krap? Point N Kuddle?
  
  Seriously, that's a new one on this new guy.
  
  Thanks.
  
  David
  
  Product Name Keywords
  
  Thanks
  
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- AffiliateMax 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MajorTom
  
  Help a newbie out, please. What is PNK?
  
  Product Name Keyword.
  
  As Dana says this is nothing new at all which is why I was suprised to get an email from Anik Singal (whoops thought I had unsubscribed from those) saying and I quote
  "Yes, it's a NEW unique twist on affiliate
  marketing - first time I've seen this in 7
  years..."
  
  Really??
  
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excoder01

16 years ago

The words 'BEST' and 'UNIQUE' does not exist in Internet Marketing...

...because it will be replaced by another product next week.

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psresearch 16 years ago

Originally Posted by excoder01

The words 'BEST' and 'UNIQUE' does not exist in Internet Marketing...

...because it will be replaced by another product next week.

And let's not forget "game changer".
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GlenH 16 years ago

[DELETED]

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- RealExpert 16 years ago
  
  In fact similar concept was introduced in Info Product Killer (IPK). According to IPK, you create a website around the exact model name say sonybravia234d3whatever and then try to rank for that term. The assumption is when the user is typing specific product names, they are looking to buy.
  
  If you don't want to create one site per product, a very effective approach that lot of super affiliates are using and are keeping secret is to create a review style site where your domain may look like HDTVreviews or something on those lines. Now you review few models, compare their features, declare one the best.
  
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J.Agnew.JD

16 years ago

Thanks once again to the Warrior Forum for saving me money! Thanks to everyone for their input on this one.

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Dean Martin

16 years ago

Stay away from this product sales page!

I received a number of 'guru' emails this morning promoting this product - went to check out the sales page, clicked the buy button to check the price - nothing there... it said to confirm my account details, no payment processed until the next page - still no price.

The next page was an upsell offer, I clicked NO - another upsell page, NO again - a half price upsell offer - another NO only to find that the next page is a 'thank you for purchasing our $197 product' paypal page.

Sorry guys, but if you have to trick me into purchasing your product it's obviously not worth buying.

Immediately called Paypal to report a deceptive purchase process.

Note to all gurus - I'm unsubscribing from any list that sends me this promotion.

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Vijay M

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dlmartin

Stay away from this product sales page!

I received a number of 'guru' emails this morning promoting this product - went to check out the sales page, clicked the buy button to check the price - nothing there... it said to confirm my account details, no payment processed until the next page - still no price.

The next page was an upsell offer, I clicked NO - another upsell page, NO again - a half price upsell offer - another NO only to find that the next page is a 'thank you for purchasing our $197 product' paypal page.

Sorry guys, but if you have to trick me into purchasing your product it's obviously not worth buying.

Immediately called Paypal to report a deceptive purchase process.

Note to all gurus - I'm unsubscribing from any list that sends me this promotion.

Sorry to hear about your expeirence, but partly relieved too..coz, I had the exact same experience.

Its been 24 hrs and I'm still wondering how they(the sales page + paypal) designed the checkout process.

Thanks
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JenniferLing

16 years ago

I bought the course because Daniel Tan endorsed it. I have to say I am VERY dissappointed about the product and I have no idea how they can price it as $197. I would think this at most $27 for the value. Also one of the upsell will cut down 50% second time which makes me very uncomfortable. Now I know these promoter will get quite a piece of the pie, but that only tells me I should not be in their email list. I am going to ask for the refund for sure. :=(

Thanks
1 reply

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sey3rd

16 years ago

Profit Instruments was very deceptive by NOT showing a price during the order process and I ended up getting burn't.

Without knowing the cost, I went all the way to the part where I choose to pay by Paypal. Expecting to see the amount before confirming payment, I was confronted with an upsell for coaching for which I declined.

Expecting the next page to be a confirmation page that showed the amount that I would be paying, I promptly found out that my Paypal was charged $197.

I was mad as hell, but no big deal because I'll just request for a refund.

I requested a refund via their Customer Support system and they closed my ticket the next day and indicated that they were sending my refund now.

I am still waiting for my refund after 2 days.

Thanks
1 reply

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Andy Hart

16 years ago

Originally Posted by sey3rd

Profit Instruments was very deceptive by NOT showing a price during the order process and I ended up getting burn't.

Without knowing the cost, I went all the way to the part where I choose to pay by Paypal. Expecting to see the amount before confirming payment, I was confronted with an upsell for coaching for which I declined.

Expecting the next page to be a confirmation page that showed the amount that I would be paying, I promptly found out that my Paypal was charged $197.

I was mad as hell, but no big deal because I'll just request for a refund.

I requested a refund via their Customer Support system and they closed my ticket the next day and indicated that they were sending my refund now.

I am still waiting for my refund after 2 days.

WHAT??

You had $197 taken from your PP account but you never actually got to see the price before it was taken??

That can't be right, can it?

How do you know you could afford it?

What if it was $10k.

Thats got to be an error or something right, you must have to accept the price b4 you pay.

Thanks
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Black Hat Cat Banned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy Hart

WHAT??

You had $197 taken from your PP account but you never actually got to see the price before it was taken??

That can't be right, can it?

The price is clearly posted on the sales page for anyone who was interested in looking for it. It was also on the two different checkout pages I saw when considering the purchase. I didn't have any problem finding it, so I'm not sure why anyone else did.

Ultimately, I took a pass on the product. It seemed way overpriced, and I also have a feeling he won't be honoring refunds.
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jprano

16 years ago

Sounds like spinning an IM concept to me.

I appreciate all you experienced warriors for
giving your input. It certainly helps us with less
IM experience to make an informed decision.

Kudos for sharing.

Thanks

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LocoDice

16 years ago

On another note,

In his free videos, he says register a domain using the product name as part of the domain. Isn't this a copyright issue?

I know if you call yourself clickbankproduct-online.com probably isn't going to get you sued, but some poor newbies that register sonybravia-online.com might.

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LocoDice

16 years ago

I got charged without realising that I was going to get billed either.

Unfortunately the company I've lost the most respect with here is Paypal. From my point of view, for a company so big and with so many technical resources I am simply amazed that their system allows for something like this to happen. There is just no excuse. It is reasons like this that keep millions of people away from internet commerce due to fear of the unknown.

With so many prices buzzing around on Ritoban Chakrabarti's landing page for profitinstruments.com I thought I'd trust Paypal to tell me what really was the price, but unfortunately you can't do this.

However, unfortunately it seems this is a bit of a trend these days even with companies I trusted more initially. As much as I love their software, www.marketsamurai.com does something very similar. Last time I was on that site, I had to enter all my details to find out the price. Thankfully you actually see the price before finally getting billed, but you do have to enter your paypal details first.

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by mkterbynite

I got charged without realising that I was going to get billed either.

So, you didn't know you were going to get charged for the product you were trying to buy? Alrighty then, lol.

However, unfortunately it seems this is a bit of a trend these days even with companies I trusted more initially. As much as I love their software, www.marketsamurai.com does something very similar. Last time I was on that site, I had to enter all my details to find out the price. Thankfully you actually see the price before finally getting billed, but you do have to enter your paypal details first.

No you don't, you just have to read. The price is on the salespage for anyone interested in knowing it.

Thanks
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LocoDice 16 years ago

Getting billed when not expected has happened a number of times to people on this thread, so obviously it was confusing. You can say I should be more careful, and you're right. But trust goes a long way in this space, and when things like that happen and folks are left scratching their heads as to how something took their hard earned money, it does not help anybody.

Yes, I was foolish for putting my Paypal details in in the first place, but I've used Paypal many times and never seen anything get billed like that before.

As for marketsamurai, great product. Maybe I am completely blind, but I distinctly remember going through the sales process with no idea how much it was going to cost. I believe this was a link from within the trial version of the product. To their credit, I notice on the frontpage they do say their RRP is $149. And I do think their product is absolute first rate and definitely worth the money.

But at least with them, I saw how much the product was on Paypal before it billed my account!
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LocoDice 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

So, you didn't know you were going to get charged for the product you were trying to buy? Alrighty then, lol.

And yes, I was planning on buying it at sometime in the future, but I just wanted to see how much it was. The sales page confused me with so many upsells, etc.

Well either way, it looks like they have learnt their lesson and are now a lot clearer on payments. https://securepaymentgate.com/profitinstruments/

Just my thoughts on everything. Apart from the payment issue, I thought the lead up was quite good for somebody who had been involved in IM for only six months, I definitely took a few nuggets from it. I just feel that $197 wasn't the right price for me for this based on the information I saw.

I also feel the way it was presented made it sound like that the basic idea was to create a site that would make over $15,000 and everything was *so* easy. Even if this blueprint on average rolled out sites that made $100-$200 a month with a couple of hours work, that would be good for me.
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kenwarrior

16 years ago

The maths does not quite add up for me, he says he's making $20k/month, the tea site is doing $14k of that, he must have at least 20 other sites you would think?, so the others are making $300/month each, that sounds a bit more realistic, I think he just got very lucky with the tea site

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2 replies

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

Originally Posted by kenwarrior

The maths does not quite add up for me, he says he's making $20k/month, the tea site is doing $14k of that, he must have at least 20 other sites you would think?, so the others are making $300/month each, that sounds a bit more realistic, I think he just got very lucky with the tea site

I don't think luck had much to do with it.

Go and check the backlinks he pushed towards that site to get
that position in the SERPS.

In the promo it suggests a few backlinks here and there to manage
it, nothing could be further from the truth.

He's got a metric ton, it's quite misleading to newbies.

Thanks

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Votoshka 16 years ago

I haven't bought this... but I am confused as to why people didn't see the price on the site? I knew exactly what it cost without clicking any buying buttons?? It's there on the site. Unless he changed it to show the price in the last 36 hours or so since I first saw it!

Nevertheless, this is one product I'll avoid. I already use similar ideas in my own IM stuff. Maybe he has more info I don't know yet, but I've got most of my great ideas from WSOs that have cost me a fraction of the $197 price tag. And I LOATHE upsells that make you feel as if you won't get full value unless you buy
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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

Sorry, just to be clear, are folks saying, that somehow you
entered your Paypal/credit information before a price was
given to you ?

I don't get, the price HAS to appear on the Paypal payment
page, there is no escaping that. Paypal won't charge you
without displaying a price.

Something doesn't quite make sense here.

Thanks
1 reply

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LocoDice

16 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

Sorry, just to be clear, are folks saying, that somehow you
entered your Paypal/credit information before a price was
given to you ?

And yes, that is exactly what I am saying. I have integrated a number of Paypal accounts for websites before and I didn't think this was possible either, which was why I naively put my payment details in. To me it all happened very fast, looked like some kind of redirect or something after submitting the button.

I just want everybody to know this is possible with Paypal, so they can be extra careful.

Yes I know I did see the $197 amount bounced around on the front page, but I also saw all other kinds of numbers, I guess I wanted to see what Paypal said and curiosity got the better of me.

Still waiting for a refund. I still have faith. I know these guys are pretty young so maybe they didn't realise what an impact this would have on people and have probably learnt the hard way, so I'll give them a bit more time to get me my money back.

But if their Paypal account has been closed, I wonder where this leaves my cash.

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

Originally Posted by mkterbynite

And yes, that is exactly what I am saying. I have integrated a number of Paypal accounts for websites before and I didn't think this was possible either, which was why I naively put my payment details in. To me it all happened very fast, looked like some kind of redirect or something after submitting the button.

.

Strange, I can't see how they could make any changes to Paypal's
payment system such as redirects.

Either way I know their PP was closed down , they had to pause
the launch so I'm guessing it's all fine now.

Thanks

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Mark-Dickenson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dlmartin

Stay away from this product sales page!

I received a number of 'guru' emails this morning promoting this product - went to check out the sales page, clicked the buy button to check the price - nothing there... it said to confirm my account details, no payment processed until the next page - still no price.

The next page was an upsell offer, I clicked NO - another upsell page, NO again - a half price upsell offer - another NO only to find that the next page is a 'thank you for purchasing our $197 product' paypal page.

This is exactly what happened to me.

I could not find out how much the course was...so I decided to go thru the Paypal process which normally gives me the amount that is to be sent along with the option to continue or cancel

I didn't have that option...and the next thing I know, my acct is charged

I had to log back into my Paypal acct to figure out how much was taken

I immediately made a refund request and they said they were sending it right away...that was a week ago on launch day

So I emailed them today and got the exact email that another warrior posted on here

That email was in response to why they didn't refund me right away like their rep said

Anyhow, I am pretty skeptical about getting my money back.

Maybe a decent course but the whole Product name blog thing has been done before and it works...but not willing to pay $197 for info I already know

-Mark

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Food Guru 16 years ago

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

I know that PP closed their account a couple of days ago,
so I'm guessing they had a few complaints and learned a
lesson to be crystal clear so reduce any further issues.

Thanks
2 replies

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sey3rd

16 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

I know that PP closed their account a couple of days ago,
so I'm guessing they had a few complaints and learned a
lesson to be crystal clear so reduce any further issues.

That explains the message that Profit Instruments support sent to me when I complained about not receiving my refund.

We\'re trying to get things sorted out as soon as possible.

I\'m really sorry for the inconvenience caused, but currently
Paypal has limited our account.

During this time, Paypal is verifying our details and we\'re
co-operating with them.

Listen, we WANT to give you a refund but Paypal won\'t let
us.

We know this doesn\'t look good on us, and that\'s why
we\'re trying our best to get things sorted out with them
and we\'ll send you the refund AS SOON as we get this
thing over with.

Please be patient for about a week. We\'re NOT here
to run away with your money.

Again, sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Ruhbir Singh
Customer Help - Profit Instruments

Thanks

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jony09 16 years ago

No offense to CB products, but I always find WSO courses far more enlightening and of better value than anything on cb...personally while I do not mind promoting CB products, I choose to stay away from IM courses popping up there, we all know those are just sales pitches, what we dont know is does this guy even exist.:p just my $.02.

cheer!
Jon
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Manoj Kumar

16 years ago

Hi All,

The Product name keyword (PNK) is not new concept, it's same as Google Sniper. Am not impressed with PI. The method is profitable but already released with 2 other similar products.

Regards,
Manoj

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elonbomani 16 years ago

Well, I am impressed! I am a newbie AM and I made close to $1k in less than a week with my PKN.

I am curious. How do you know it is exactly like Google Sniper? Did you invest in his system?
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cadillac48

16 years ago

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Carl Kmetz

16 years ago

Profit Instruments went live again yesterday 6/10. I got an email from Ritoban that Paypal had put limitations on the account. I'm guessing a flood of orders at one time is to blame.

When a new product like this comes out I always look for the affiliate program. This way I can see if there are any up-sells and how many.

When I saw the first pre-launch video I too quickly realized it was just another "buy a product domain, setup a blog and use long tail keywords type of course that's been copied a bunch of times.

Step 2: Creation "Just Copy and Paste" scares me. Maybe it's just me but it sounds like duplicate content. Even if you change the text you're still competing with a million other sites on the same topic.

Thanks

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liamIam

16 years ago

As it was said earlier per [excoder01] "Find an offer, create a blog around the product, and promote that blog."

I've been doing this for a while. It can be rewarding but it's also allot of work to get the ball rolling. The product you promote has to be doing well already - reputable.

You're at the mercy of the ad network so always find an offer that will sustain from a company that's solid. I'd be curious to know if there are any new techniques revealed within the product.

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maxitman

16 years ago

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AffiliateMax

16 years ago

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Dean Martin

16 years ago

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Brad Callen

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dlmartin

They've all bought into a faulty model - promoting any new 'super launch' that's coming up without actually seeing the product or the sales process.

Not to sound mean, but dude... this couldn't be any further from the truth. I know for a fact that several of these guys not only reviewed the product, but are using the strategies themselves "right now". He offered to give me (and several of his bigger potential JV partners) several of his own websites that he'd followed the EXACT process on, and are currently making money, just to prove that what he's teaching works. The strategies work, period.

Did I personally promote? No. Do I get anything at all out of saying this stuff? Nope.

But let's be real here. It's one thing if you're saying something based on fact, and another if you're making gross assumptions.

Also, there is no "paypal scam" here or whatever you're wanting to call it. The fact is, he made a large amount of sales via paypal and paypal "temporarily" froze his account for a few hours. If you've not done huge amounts of transactions in a very short time with Paypal in the past, that will happen. I've seen it happen to plenty of honest people. Is it his fault? Sure, he could have used Clickbank or a merchant account, but give the guy a break. Saying it's a scam is ridiculous.

Isn't this a "product review" forum?

Brad

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jaynejones2010

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Brad Callen

Did I personally promote? No. Do I get anything at all out of saying this stuff? Nope.

But let's be real here. It's one thing if you're saying something based on fact, and another if you're making gross assumptions.

Isn't this a "product review" forum?

Brad

When I get 30 emails about this product all with the same copy, I tend to think that the product hasn't been reviewed by the sender.

WOW! $197 for this product.

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Midas3 Consulting 16 years ago

Just be aware when you're throwing mud at all these guys
that they might not have had a clue that he has back links
going to that site past those he explained in the book.

The average affiliate won't research that kind of thing,
some will just see others get onboard and follow in.

His product is solid, the technique is not a scam, many
of those guys would only have seen a solid technique
nicely wrapped with a high margin and said "sure , why not".

Hell, the site might have dropped in the rankings just
before the launch and he propped it up fast with
more links to put it back - who knows.

It's a bit much to tar them all with being scammers
and unethical etc.

There's a bunch of people on that list I would say are far from it.
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maxitman

16 years ago

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webdollarz 16 years ago

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excoder01

16 years ago

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

Originally Posted by excoder01

I'm wondering how does Ritoban get all the gurus to endorse his product?

It converts well, he did a great job with launch.

75% commissions + prizes.

Potential couple of hundred dollars per sale.

Click value of over $5 I believe.

Decent product.

What's not to like, sure it's over priced IMO but at the core , what's
been taught is solid, although he didn't get his green tea site ranking
with what he said he did alone.

Thanks
1 reply

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AffiliateMax

16 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

What's not to like, sure it's over priced IMO but at the core , what's
been taught is solid, although he didn't get his green tea site ranking
with what he said he did alone.

Well as that site was his main "proof" that the methods worked ["3 Page website makes $14,350 per month on AUTOPILOT"] surely that's something "not to like"!?

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

Originally Posted by AffiliateMax

Well as that site was his main "proof" that the methods worked ["3 Page website makes $14,350 per month on AUTOPILOT"] surely that's something "not to like"!?

I was responding to why people liked promoting it .

I really don't know why he wasn't more upfront about that element.

It's a shame really because at it's heart, the system is solid,
it's not rocket science, and it's probably a bit content heavy
but overall the technique works.

If he had included a detailed back linking process that came
close to what he's actually had to do to push that site
to that position, he would have had a much better product
and very little come back as far as the actual content and
program are concerned.

Just seems daft to say "all I did was this and boom look at
my position" when a back link check shows much more than
that.

Thanks
2 replies

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

If he had included a detailed back linking process that came
close to what he's actually had to do to push that site
to that position, he would have had a much better product
and very little come back as far as the actual content and
program are concerned.

Just seems daft to say "all I did was this and boom look at
my position" when a back link check shows much more than
that.

Technically, the back link check doesn't show more than that. The back link check shows he has a lot of back links.....it doesn't show he needed those back links to get to number one. Just because he has 600 back links today doesn't mean he needed all those back links to get to number one in the beginning. For all we know, he could have gotten to number one doing exactly what he teaches, but kept building links after finding out how profitable the site was so he would hopefully stay at number one. I know I don't stop building links to sites I care about just because I've made it to number one.

Of course, that would contradict his build it and leave it claim too though.

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1 reply

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

Technically, the back link check doesn't show more than that. The back link check shows he has a lot of back links.....it doesn't show he needed those back links to get to number one.

I made that point in another post, those links may have come
afterwards, but actually, he would have, go check out the
comp.

Just because he has 600 back links today doesn't mean he needed all those back links to get to number one in the beginning. For all we know, he could have gotten to number one doing exactly what he teaches, but kept building links after finding out how profitable the site was so he would hopefully stay at number one. I know I don't stop building links to sites I care about just because I've made it to number one.

I made a similar point already, he could in theory have been
number 1, then slipped and slammed more into hold it there,
either way as that site was the demo ground for the entire
project it belies the ease suggested to be no#1 for that
term, and it's a tough term that a few back links wouldn't
hold, especially on a new domain etc. Domain keyword match
isn't a magic wand as we all know.

Of course, that would contradict his build it and leave it claim too though.

Yep.

Thanks
1 reply

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swayman 16 years ago

I received a promotion email from a guy name Saj P. He said in his email that this guy is making $350 a month on his daily job. But after he discovered "the secret" then boom he quit his daily job at 22 and doing whatever he is doing right now.

Then I went and read the sales letter, and after a few seconds I stop and close the website, the sentence that made me stop reading was "I spent over $102,000 finding this secret" I just can't find any logical explanation, how could someone earning $350 would want to spend or could spend $102,000 finding a secret. It would took him 24.5 years to earn that amount of money from his $350/month salary.

He quit his job at 22 so it means that before he was born, he was already making money somewhere...spooky

HYPE HYPE HYPE

and this PNK is a very old concept, niche on crack is discussing the same concept years ago, and there is also one ebook but I forget the title that sold only $8 in paydotcom. Not worth 197, better stay away
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TiffanyB

16 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

I was responding to why people liked promoting it .

I really don't know why he wasn't more upfront about that element.

It's a shame really because at it's heart, the system is solid,
it's not rocket science, and it's probably a bit content heavy
but overall the technique works.

If he had included a detailed back linking process that came
close to what he's actually had to do to push that site
to that position, he would have had a much better product
and very little come back as far as the actual content and
program are concerned.

Just seems daft to say "all I did was this and boom look at
my position" when a back link check shows much more than
that.

I'm not sure why people comment on a review thread if they have not bought the product or have not read it all. What he gave away in the free videos is definitely not everyting in the course. He goes much more in depth. Someone mocked his way of choosing keywords, well he has a certain formula that is followed and it is not just under 50,000 exact searches.

As for the backlinking, he does have a module in the course which he calls "domination" and it goes into how to dominate a niche and keep the #1 spot in tough competition. This is most likely what he used for his site that he used as an example if it has that many backlinks. I will not say what he says to do, but I'm pretty sure it's how he got all those backlinks and it appears to be working for that site.

It's just frustrating when people come here for a real review and then all they get is comments from people who have not bought the product or have not gone through the course in it's entirety yet.

Thanks
1 reply

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyB

I'm not sure why people comment on a review thread if they have not bought the product or have not read it all. What he gave away in the free videos is definitely not everyting in the course. He goes much more in depth. Someone mocked his way of choosing keywords, well he has a certain formula that is followed and it is not just under 50,000 exact searches.

As for the backlinking, he does have a module in the course which he calls "domination" and it goes into how to dominate a niche and keep the #1 spot in tough competition. This is most likely what he used for his site that he used as an example if it has that many backlinks. I will not say what he says to do, but I'm pretty sure it's how he got all those backlinks and it appears to be working for that site.

It's just frustrating when people come here for a real review and then all they get is comments from people who have not bought the product or have not gone through the course in it's entirety yet.

You need to read more of my posts, I've actually been defensive
of the issue.

For the record I DO own the product.

Lastly, the module he has on back linking is not even close
to what's back linked to that site.

Rough with the smooth, sorry, I've said nothing which isn't entirely
true and defended those promoting it as well.

[ 1 ] Thanks

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

Problem is with all these sniper site products that you can
pretty much boil it down to this.

1. Find a product to promote, use the various methods already out there
to determine search volume and competitiveness. You don't need that
PNK process, way over complicated, there are much easier and just as
reliable methods for determining SOC.

2. Find a domain match.

3. Order domain, wang it into your hosting.

4. Install Wordpress and a few basic plugins.

5. Write 2-3 articles, add them to blog.

6. Get your affiliate links, banners etc and add them.

7. Back link the crap out of it.

Rinse and repeat.

The rest is pretty much fluff.

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AffiliateMax 16 years ago

Agreed. And all of this is common knowledge and common sense - no need to pay for it.

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- Midas3 Consulting 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by AffiliateMax
  
  Agreed. And all of this is common knowledge and common sense - no need to pay for it.
  
  -
  
  Sort of , but people forget that many people don't have the first
  clue how to to get from point 1 to 7 or how to implement many
  of those simple points.
  
  If I have to watch another video showing me how to setup
  CPANEL or tell me that Aweber is an autoresponder, I may
  well kill myself but always remember to some folks, C PANEL
  might as well be the side of a flat pack wardrobe.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  AffiliateMax 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by SimonHarrison
  
  Sort of , but people forget that many people don't have the first
  clue how to to get from point 1 to 7 or how to implement many
  of those simple points.
  
  Fair enough - it's easy to forget that sometimes, although when I was at that stage I just worked it all out myself. If people find it easier to pay for one step by step guide then fine (but not at $200!) But that's not what these endless product launches are about - it's all about promoting the latest must have method / strategy / twist /secret - while it's nothing of the sort, just variations on the same old method. It's taking advantage of people due to their lack of knowledge.
  
  Thanks
  
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lisaweyn

16 years ago

I've read it and it looks like the same old story about other products. the price is too much,not worth it.

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pearsonbrown

16 years ago

MODERATOR

I've had to clean up this thread. Forum rules clearly state

1. No bashing. And that includes 'gurus'. If you have a problem with somebody, take it up with them privately.

2. No support issues. It's hardly the first time that Paypal has suspended an account during a launch and thus prevented immediate reimbursements. Learn to live with it.

The comment that somebody can be 'signed up' and have money taken from their Paypal account without their permission is obviously worrying - please continue to mention these, it's more than a support issue.

Apologies to the 'innocent' who had posts removed during this process. I tried to maintain the flow of the thread and the very many interesting comments but it was not easy.

Pearson

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Vijay M

16 years ago

Originally Posted by pearsonbrown

MODERATOR

....

The comment that somebody can be 'signed up' and have money taken from their Paypal account without their permission is obviously worrying - but it does go against all my experience of Paypal and the problem has only been reported by one Warrior.

..

Pearson

The problem has been reported by more than 1 warrior. I also had agreed and reported the same in post #34 on this thread.

I wonder if they would have paid the overdraft fees if I did not have enough funds in the paypal account !!:rolleyes:

MODERATOR

Sorry I missed that. Very strange indeed.

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kenwarrior

16 years ago

I think the moral of this story is that if you create a "money making system", that actually works to some extent, then create a product and great sales letter, and get a bunch of good affiliates to promote it, you can probabily make 10-50 times your monthly profit in a few weeks.... I've seen this over and over again

The best example of this I've seen was a well known guru who created a product data feed/bloging system, he documented how he made about $400 in 1 month with it, he went to make $200-300K selling his product, then the resell rights to it!, nice job!

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zakiprofit

16 years ago

I'm lucky because I read this thread. Thank you worrior forum members. Next time before I start buying any product I'll refer to worrior first.

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gold789 16 years ago

I want to purchase profit instruments could anyone tell me which bonus link would be the best?
thanks
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Macronder

16 years ago

I thought that the videos gave away a lot of excellent content. The information was right to the point and very, very understandable for me. I plan on jumping in and utilizing the free info and see what happens. I am one of those idiots that does more and more research and rarely doing anything. Profit Instruments somehow got to me and motivated me.

Don't know if I will actually buy the program. Ned to see what happens with the free info.

Thanks
1 reply

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Shina

16 years ago

Great and compelling sales letter and pre sell vids but alot doesnt hold up to real close scrutiny if you know anything about anything. Christ i wanted to buy it after reading and watching!

He doesnt talk about minimum search volumes necessary for one. Do a search on some CB product names and often there is zero search volume.

Also do a look up on his company, you will find details in the privacy policy link. Hes got a full blown seo/marketing company with full time staff and a recruitment campaign going on for more people with seo and marketing skills. Hes had previous launches of IM products as his main site shows with mixed results

fair play to Ritoban for his success but its silly to believe the hype that hes "just a 22 year old" who made it with this "system" alone.>Hes alot more than that, But we all know by now that its the "story" that sells BIG TIME

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Midas3 Consulting

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Shina

Also do a look up on his company, you will find details in the privacy policy link. Hes got a full blown seo/marketing company with full time staff and a recruitment campaign going on for more people with seo and marketing skills. Hes had previous launches of IM products as his main site shows with mixed results

fair play to Ritoban for his success but its silly to believe the hype that hes "just a 22 year old" who made it with this "system" alone.>Hes alot more than that, But we all know by now that its the "story" that sells BIG TIME

LOL, nice find Sherlock.

Anybody still convinced he just threw a few back links at that site?

:-)

Thanks
1 reply

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gold789 16 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

LOL, nice find Sherlock.

Anybody still convinced he just threw a few back links at that site?

:-)

Hello Simon,

Is it worth it to buy profit instuments I am a newbie?
I want to sign up for extra bonuses under Clayne Keegans web site

Thanks
Steve
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- Midas3 Consulting 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by gold789
  
  Hello Simon,
  
  Is it worth it to buy profit instuments I am a newbie?
  I want to sign up for extra bonuses under Clayne Keegans web site
  
  Thanks
  Steve
  
  Its' a decent enough program at it's core Steve, but it really
  fleshes out what is relatively simple and its' quite pricey.
  
  Thanks
  
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pearsonbrown

16 years ago

Look, if pay pal blocked their account, it can take a week or longer to sort out refunds. This happens all the time with big launches and is an argument not to use pay pal.

I feel sorry for you but forum policy is that you take up these problems with their support, not here.

On the other hand, the idea that people bought this product without knowingly doing so is a disturbing subject and one suitable for this review forum.

Pearson

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djbory 16 years ago

I agree with Mark and the other guys above; the price was not in the sales letter, at least at the beginning, and yes, I was charged $197 before I knew I was going to be charged $197.

The product, though is no bad, is a rehash, i haven't learned anything new from the course. Absolutely NOT, it is not worth $197.
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NVRGVUP

16 years ago

Originally Posted by pearsonbrown

On the other hand, the idea that people bought this product without knowingly doing so is a disturbing subject and one suitable for this review forum.

Pearson

I'm embarrassed, regarding the Paypal trick.... I owned an ecommerce site/business that used Paypal, for $350,000 to $500,000 per month. And I've used PayPal for about 10 yrs. I'm far from a newbie with Paypal.

But, add me to the list of those who clicked thru, looking for the price, only to be stunned that I'd just bought this thing. I too emailed them within 2 minutes (after looking at my Pp account - could not believe my eyes!)

And, yes, I've sent them 3 emails since - no refund. I've asked for THEIR credit card, so I can use Virtual Terminal to charge THEM for $197.

I'm holding my breath...... Is it possible to die, holding your breath???

Thanks

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bryanps

16 years ago

Hey guys, thanks for all the input about this product. At first it looks really good. Sales page looks convincing, but that's what all sales pages do right?

I really was considering to purchase profit instruments but it really seems like this is another rehashing of previous products and not the "never before seen/heard" techniques used.

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djbory 16 years ago

It has been a few days that the offer he was promoting in his Cho Yung Tea site was pulled out. So at least in that site he went from $14,000/Month to $0/Month... So that's a record...

When you build your business based on FREE TRIALS CPA Offers you can get burnt overnight! I think that should be mention in the course.
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cadillac48

16 years ago

I was wondering. Has anyone received the promised refund yet or heard any new information about when they will be coming?

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avantgarde

16 years ago

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cadillac48 16 years ago

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Waipiti

16 years ago

I have asked for a refund using their support system twice now and when you submit a ticket you are told that you will receive your support ticket number in an email with the email address you provide in your support ticket.

I asked for a refund over a week ago using their support system and I never even got a reply in my email with a support ticket number. I have submitted a second request as of yesterday (6-20-2010) and I still have not received any kind of acknowledgment that I submitted a ticket. I think I am screwed as far as any refund on this product. Even if some people think this product has potential, I don't want to waste my time. So much for the sales pitch!~

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Michael_Smith 16 years ago

I asked for a refund for this product last week, and again this weekend. Both times I was told they are having trouble with paypal and to give them about a week.

I think the presentation quality was very high but I already own google sniper and it seems like nothing more than a re-hash of that and that is why I asked for a refund.
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AshtonWebb

16 years ago

I personally think he is offering some great value.

I actually use some of the methods to create some great profits.

- Ashton

www.ashtonwebb.com

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kiwinz1

16 years ago

Hi eveyone, still waiting for a refund, and add insult to injury unable to login into there membership now, password not working, requested another password got that and that doesn't work either, so i've recieved a double blow no refund and no productl... lol

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NVRGVUP

16 years ago

Originally Posted by kiwinz1

Hi eveyone, still waiting for a refund, and add insult to injury unable to login into there membership now, password not working, requested another password got that and that doesn't work either, so i've recieved a double blow no refund and no productl... lol

Wow. Sickening.

What's most concerning, I think, is that we did NOT intend to buy this thing. We were trying to learn the price. Paypal would not help me either... saying I "have purchased similar products in the past".... Huh??

Does this mean we should not buy anything from anyone, that is new, or unknown to us? In this case, I am in Colorado, and the seller/product developer is in India. I never thought about restricting my purchases to only jurisdictions under US law.

Ultimately, this is sad.

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Mark-Dickenson

16 years ago

Totally Agree

I am not counting on getting my money back

I just can't believe that for this one transaction, I did not have the opportunity to review my purchase like the TONS of other Paypal transactions I have done

Originally Posted by NVRGVUP

Wow. Sickening.

What's most concerning, I think, is that we did NOT intend to buy this thing. We were trying to learn the price. Paypal would not help me either... saying I "have purchased similar products in the past".... Huh??

Does this mean we should not buy anything from anyone, that is new, or unknown to us? In this case, I am in Colorado, and the seller/product developer is in India. I never thought about restricting my purchases to only jurisdictions under US law.

Ultimately, this is sad.

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Johnny

16 years ago

Frankly, almost all IM products are more or less "re-hash". Hardly you will find one with all fresh information.

For this product, refund rate can be high due to the higher price tag. But who know, maybe even after all these refund, it is still more profitable than to lower the price

The concept is not new. But still working now.

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pearsonbrown

16 years ago

Please keep these two ideas distinct.

1. Paypal often block accounts with product launches. They are suspicious when large amounts of money suddenly arrive in an account. After a period of time, they release the account and refunds can be made.

2. In this particular case, several of you say that the purchase was made without your consent. This is a separate issue and one where I , just like Paypal, didn't believe you. I do now because several people have provided similar evidence. You need to get together and complain to paypal as a group. Don't confuse the issue with the refund problem. Just complain about what appears to have been a widespread technical problem.

Pearson

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NVRGVUP

16 years ago

Originally Posted by pearsonbrown

2. In this particular case, several of you say that the purchase was made without your consent. This is a separate issue and one where I , just like Paypal, didn't believe you. I do now because several people have provided similar evidence. You need to get together and complain to paypal as a group. Don't confuse the issue with the refund problem. Just complain about what appears to have been a widespread technical problem.

Pearson

Pearson - yes, your perspective about the 2 issues is correct.

Kiwinz1, Michael_Smith, Mark-Dickenson and all who are seeking refund, but so far - no results....I will contact the personal PayPal rep I was assigned when my online electronics biz was using Paypal for $350k + per month. I sold that biz 2 years ago, but she still remembers me. Maybe she can help. Definitely better than a faceless reply from "Resolution Center".

I'll post whatever I learn here. Feel free to PM me as well.

Thanks
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NVRGVUP 16 years ago

I promised everyone I would try to contact my old Paypal rep...
here is what I learned:

I spoke with my paypal rep. She said that filing a claim for "item not received" is our best chance for a "speedy" refund. If you file as an unauthorized transaction, paypal will be able to see that we did 'push the button' and likely they will deny the claim. Also, if the seller opposes our claim and says we DID receive the item (paypal language), we will not win the claim (yet). They do not provide normal buyer protection for digital products. (this seemed contradictory to the potential to win the refund claim, to me)

Of course she could not give me any details about the Indian account - but she did confirm that there are other complaints, and funds are frozen for any withdrawals by the account holder. Paypal is investigating. Paypal CAN hold funds up to 180 days until all issues are resolved, if they are seeing certain types of issues. She said she cannot elaborate further on this.

Last - the unusual steps to the sale we experienced apparently are not normal at all - but not barred by paypal either. (amazing, I think). The Seller would have to have changed the standard flow, and deleted one page, that serves as a review/summary before the final authorization.

That's why this was so different, compared to our past transactions. So, it seems, the Seller did this on purpose.

Does anyone remember, specifically, what the text on the last "pay" button was?
I *think* it said "continue" - not pay now, order, or authorize.

Last, if paypal finds fraud or other violations, we will eventually get our money refunded by Paypal. That's if the cliams we are filing now do not result in a refund.

Hope this helps :confused:
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etctan

16 years ago

Has anyone got any updates about getting refund? Looks like my $$$ will be stuck for sometime or maybe gone

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freelikehell

16 years ago

Hey guys, this is Ritoban.

I read this thread and I want to address the refund issue that concerns the Profit Instruments launch.

First off, I apologize. I sincerely do. I know many customers have not been issued refunds till now and believe me, I have been talking to Paypal personally regarding the refunds issue, over 2 hours EVERYDAY for the last week or so.

See, the thing is that when an account is limited (which happens when a lot of funds come in very quickly AKA during launch) - the account holder is not allowed to issue refunds.

This is what happens when I try to issue a refund (notice the message in the yellow box)
http://profitinstruments.com/images/refund.gif

We have to email/call Paypal to issue refunds, which we have done MULTIPLE times.

We had sent Paypal with a list of people who want refunds over a week ago and since then called them a dozen times regarding this - BUT, they haven't even started processing the refunds yet.

I totally understand that as a customer you would want a PROMPT refund, and IF things were in our hands... we WOULD issue a prompt refund.

But, I see a lot of negative attitude in this thread saying that "its RITOBAN who is not refunding the money" and that "its RITOBAN who has run away with my money".

This couldn't be farther from the truth.

Apart from teaching my students and helping them (which my students can testify because I've been regularly posting "Course Updates" and taking webinars) - the refund issue has been the MOST distracting part of my daily schedule for the last couple of weeks.

...Because Paypal has not been co-operative with us at all.

BUT, I assure you that this issue has #1 priority on my mind and you guys should start getting refunds really soon because we'll keep on emailing/calling them till they do.

My appeal to all my customers is to please be patient with this because you WILL get your money back.

Opening a Paypal claim will only delay the process because when we try to respond to your claim and refund your purchase, the Paypal system does not allow us.

So, then Paypal starts investigating about it and it takes a long time.

Here's my final thoughts:

1) I have an intuition that Paypal will start refunding from the list we've given them really soon. Until they so, I'll be calling and pushing them to do it everyday. Please be patient. Thanks

2) The purchase process that we're using is a new use of the PAYPAL API itself. Its something that my technology team developed by using the Paypal API and its similar to the one-click upsell technology. We always had the amount ($197) mentioned 2-3 times on the sales page. Please note that the API is something that Paypal themselves provide, and we just used it.

3) I know I'm going against all rules by replying to this thread because many people will continue flaming this thread, but as you can see, my main motive of writing this response is to tell my side of the story and to assure customers that we're here to HELP you. We're NOT the villains, but the people who have been trying and trying in the background to ensure that you feel comfortable.

Please note that I won't be replying to any further comments posted in this thread - rather I'll be focusing on resolving the issues and teaching my awesome students.

Again, I'm really sorry for what's happening with Paypal, but I'm going to MAKE SURE that those who ask for a refund get it ASAP.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope you have a great day and a very successful online career.

Warm Regards,
Ritoban

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NVRGVUP 16 years ago

Ritoban,

Thank you for responding to this thread. That was an impressive action on your part.

I have 2 suggestions, but understandably you may not respond, as you mentioned above. I can't blame you if you do not.

1) Since it has been 2 weeks since some of us asked for a refund (June 8, 10 minutes after launch in my case) you could provide individual Visa, Amex, or MC, gift or debit card numbers limited to the $197 spent (or appropriate amount). Those of us who have Virtual Terminal, or other processor, would have our refunds.

2) Careful attention to the Paypal "normal" process probably would avoid having this happen again. It seems this incident has accidentally become a form of usability study, showing that a number of people were not attempting to purchase, but to discern the price. In my case at least, I was not ready to buy, and with about 10 yrs Paypal experience - somehow, I bought anyway.

Again, thanks for your post. I hope this works out for everyone.
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LocoDice

16 years ago

Ritoban,

Thanks for the response. I'm glad you took the time to address this forum.

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Mark-Dickenson 16 years ago

Hello Everyone,

I just received my refund today

Thanks Ritoban for clearing everything up

Best of luck to you

-Mark
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- Vijay M 16 years ago
  
  Update:
  
  Logged in to my paypal account today, to see the refund sitting there :-)
  
  Thanks Ritoban.
  
  Vijay
  
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  NVRGVUP 16 years ago
  
  No refund for me.
  
  My request was done 10 minutes after the launch started. Maybe it will show up tonight.
  
  Thanks
  
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justcrowd2010

16 years ago

[DELETED]

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etctan

16 years ago

Got my refund back. Thanks Ritoban,

I like to apologies for being impatient to wait for the refund. I know things may not work out smooth as we move ahead. I know you have put alot of hardwork in you PI. Thus I wish you all the best in your training programe.

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LocoDice

16 years ago

Got my refund, thanks ritoban.

Good luck with your future product launches.

Thanks

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