Warriors Thoughts On SBI

79 replies
Hi Warriors,

I was wondering what the fellow warriors thought about SBI.

Site Build It --> I have and account with them and have built a large website on health and fitness. I have been working to SEO my site, but it is a tough process... I am getting just over a hundred organic free visitors a day on this site, but I have another couple sites and am am getting more traffic and signups to these other pages without optimizing for keywords and building a ton of links in...

Just wondering if anyone has had any kind of success with Site build it or if they know anything about it and any personal reviews would be great.

Thx
AC
#sbi #thoughts #warriors
  • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
    At 300 bucks a pop at renewal time it's not the best bargin. I should know, I had three of them at one time.

    Years ago they were the head of the class because of the schooling they offered along with the domain/website hosting.

    Things have changed. Ken Envoy rocks, but the cost of being on the internet has plummeted...

    ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author humbledmarket
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

      At 300 bucks a pop at renewal time it's not the best bargin. I should know, I had three of them at one time.

      Years ago they were the head of the class because of the schooling they offered along with the domain/website hosting.

      Things have changed. Ken Envoy rocks, but the cost of being on the internet has plummeted...

      ~Bill
      Hey Bill,
      Thanks very much for your review. I'm looking for something similar to SBI perhaps you can suggest a good service with your experience. Preferably one that is trusted and recognized with a reasonable pricing.

      Thanks in advance
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    My thoughts....Suckers Buy It.

    I'm sure the koolaid brigade will be here shortly to tell you how great it is though, so stay tuned.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Bill summed it up pretty nicely. I had an SBI site years ago when it
    wasn't 300. Back then a lot about it was cutting edge.

    I guess it all depends on your budget, knowledge, available time to
    do it all manually, your desire to do it all manually, etc.

    I think it can be worth it for the right person.

    If I remember correctly, you have to pay 300 to renew it every year?
    Its been a long time, but I think that's the gig.

    So if you figure 10/month, tops, for hosting - maybe, then a little
    less than 200/yr is for the SBI app. I don't know if Ken is continuing
    to update SBI. But if he added enough, I think he may try to raise
    the price. But on the other hand, I think he's already hitting the
    ceiling on the fee.

    So, another way to look at it is it's costing you about 18/mo for
    the app minus the amount figured in for hosting (for the one site).
    Looking at it that way takes some of the sting out of it. So if you
    can make the site profitable, then it could be worth it.


    Ken

    PS - Actually, I'm not in the koolaid brigade.
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    • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
      Hey Andrew

      How are you?

      I have a large website on health and fitness.
      I'm an SBIer and I'm not sure what you're needing help with. The information you are providing is rather general. Are you looking for help?

      When you say "large," that's a relative term. To some that can mean 10 pages, to others, 100. You also don't say how old your site is.

      I'm happy to help, if you provide more detailed info.

      Forgot to add:

      I do very well with SBI, over 4 figures a month and 1000s of visits a day. It took hard and didn't happen overnight. So my vote is positive.
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    I don't really see what it can do that WP and some themes/plugins can't.
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    • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
      Ken Envoy rocks,
      I utterly agree.

      but the cost of being on the internet has plummeted.
      I utterly agree with this as well, but don't necessarily connect that with the conversation.

      I don't really see what it can do that WP and some themes/plugins can't.
      - Uh, I don't agree with this one, at all.

      Having been around here for a little while, I kind of know where this is headed, so here goes. . .

      SBI is not a site builder, guys. It is a platform on which to build an online business. As I said earlier in this thread, it is definitely working for me, and I earn income from my SBI site on a nearly completely passive basis. That income continues to grow, although my time and work involved in building the business is decreasing.

      That is the big difference between SBI and everything else, including WP.

      As far as WP being able to do what SBI does, that's not true. Yes, you can create a wannabe "site," (although I wouldn't recommend using the blogging format to build a business) but it will cost you more than the SBI fee and then who will fix the bugs? What about security? What about hosting? What happens when you start to get successful and you exceed your bandwidth?

      You can't compare WP with SBI. The business tools that come with SBI - out of the box - blows WP away. WP alone isn't going to "teach" you anything about getting there and making your business successful either. And if you have to go gathering all that info by yourself, well, it's your time and your dollar, I guess.

      SBI is about building a business. It does take work and it does take time. It isn't like throwing up 10 pages and going broke with Adwords to get traffic. Done right, though, with SBI you will have an ever-growing income base that will last you a long time. You can even stop working on it at some point. It is not for everybody, though.

      Like I said, Andrew, if you actually would like help, I'm glad to give it a go. But realize your niche is highly competitive, and you must compare apples to apples. Comparing a fitness site to a site about sunflower seeds, for instance, you're going to get a huge variation in data. That has nothing to do with SBI. That's the niche.

      Hope this helps.
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      • Profile picture of the author cobwab
        Originally Posted by StacyHolmes View Post

        I utterly agree.



        I utterly agree with this as well, but don't necessarily connect that with the conversation.

        - Uh, I don't agree with this one, at all.

        Having been around here for a little while, I kind of know where this is headed, so here goes. . .

        SBI is not a site builder, guys. It is a platform on which to build an online business. As I said earlier in this thread, it is definitely working for me, and I earn income from my SBI site on a nearly completely passive basis. That income continues to grow, although my time and work involved in building the business is decreasing.

        That is the big difference between SBI and everything else, including WP.

        As far as WP being able to do what SBI does, that's not true. Yes, you can create a wannabe "site," (although I wouldn't recommend using the blogging format to build a business) but it will cost you more than the SBI fee and then who will fix the bugs? What about security? What about hosting? What happens when you start to get successful and you exceed your bandwidth?

        You can't compare WP with SBI. The business tools that come with SBI - out of the box - blows WP away. WP alone isn't going to "teach" you anything about getting there and making your business successful either. And if you have to go gathering all that info by yourself, well, it's your time and your dollar, I guess.

        SBI is about building a business. It does take work and it does take time. It isn't like throwing up 10 pages and going broke with Adwords to get traffic. Done right, though, with SBI you will have an ever-growing income base that will last you a long time. You can even stop working on it at some point. It is not for everybody, though.

        Like I said, Andrew, if you actually would like help, I'm glad to give it a go. But realize your niche is highly competitive, and you must compare apples to apples. Comparing a fitness site to a site about sunflower seeds, for instance, you're going to get a huge variation in data. That has nothing to do with SBI. That's the niche.

        Hope this helps.
        More Kool-aid never helps.

        It is utterly false and a Kool-aid lie that sbi blows Wordpress away.

        Wordpres is free. Hard to beat free vs. $359.88 a year.

        sbi is so 90s.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew James
    I looked at it a few times but the price always put me off.
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    • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
      Well Andrew (#2) :-)

      Some people would prefer cheap or free, but take a look at why there are so many cheap or free services, hosts, tools, etc. on the Net today -

      Somewhere along the line, you're going to be paying somebody for something. Either you're going to be lining somebody's pockets (like one of the Warriors who love to hang out on SBI threads), to install and put plug-ins together for you. Or you're going to pay the host when you suddenly exceed your bandwidth, or you're going to be paying someone for an auto responder, an ezine creator, etc. etc.

      Cheap and free are really only that way at first glance. They have to charge somewhere down the road or they'll go broke. People need to compare apples to apples. ;-)

      That's what I'm trying to show here. When you look at what SBI provides, it gives you everything, right out of the box, to build a business. For one price, with proven, verifiable, reproducible results. And SBI holds your hand until you make it, if you want or need that.

      Then, once you make it, you have the tools to manage it. And no matter how successful you get, they don't raise the price for hosting nor does your site get hacked.

      When you're earning $10K, $20K, $40k a year or more, $300 is a drop in the bucket. That's what we're comparing. Not whether you can make a page "look good" or get it uploaded.

      Just want to point that out. ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    I don't have anything against SBI, it has its niche...but the bashing of WP as "wannabe" is ludicrous.

    WP powers some of the most popular and profitable sites online and the variety of free plugins can do amazing things.

    Saying that there's going to be an issue with excess bandwidth is really kind of out there as well...do you know how cheap bandwith is? You can get a VPS with unbelievable amounts of bandwidth for incredibly low prices. Is Sitesell going to let you serve thousands of gigs of streaming video for free, or pay thousands to put you behind a DDOS protected service when you get attacked? I doubt it (correct me if I'm wrong)... in short, hosting is cheap these days. It's not really a selling point.

    I'm sure SiteSell is really working well for some people...but it certainly feels like there is some pressure from things like WP and all the other free options...

    SBI is proprietary and WP is free and open source and you can find all sorts of resources for it all over the web.

    Maybe I'm being a little harsh but putting down WP when it powers million-dollar businesses is just really sort of shameful IMO.
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    • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
      Hi LB

      I don't have anything against WordPress either.


      Maybe I'm being a little harsh but putting down WP when it powers million-dollar businesses is just really sort of shameful
      I'm not putting it down. I'm just clearing away the clouds of misconception, LB. Believe me when I say, there is no offense intended.

      Example, the average WP user is not creating a million-dollar business. And if they did become that successful, hosting/bandwidth/maintenance, etc., would not be cheap or free. To think so is ludicrous.


      Saying that there's going to be an issue with excess bandwidth is really kind of out there
      Again, sorry, but no it's not.

      People don't realize how much traffic some SBI sites get and what the potential is and what SBI is really designed to do. It's constantly being compared to site builders (like WP), when site building is a fraction of SBI's capability. That's the point I'm trying to get across.

      The ones who really *get* SBI are the people who take the time to learn it, apply it and work it. Those who sign up, rush to grab a domain name and throw up a handful of pages aren't going to like it. And people like that are wasting their money. I am being honest. That's not what it's for and those people should not buy SBI, because few people have the $300 to just throw down the toilet like that. (Although, there is the money-back guarantee . . . )

      On the other hand, those who want to take the time to establish a real, ever-growing online business are the ones who will, and do, appreciate SBI.


      Is Sitesell going to let you serve thousands of gigs of streaming video for free,
      What are you talking about? As if the average WP user does that. Come on now. Most WP blogs get little or no traffic. And most of them fail. That's why cheap or free hosting can be cheap or free. Otherwise, one caves to the upselling, add-ons, etc.

      Now if someone had an SBI site, they might get enough traffic to worry about what you're talking about. There is never any added charge with SBI, ever. And some SBIers get millions of visits a month. Regardless, the price stays the same.


      or pay thousands to put you behind a DDOS protected service when you get attacked?
      SBI sites are secure. They are safer due to the nature of the product itself. Unlike WP where security is a cat-and-mouse game. WP can only know about a security hole after it's been hacked through.

      If you really do manage to build a successful online business that way, there's potential for problems.

      Again, for those million-dollar businesses, they're going to be able to afford the staff/help to handle. But most WP users are the average Joe or Jane, sitting at their kitchen table, trying to eke out extra income for their family. They don't have that kind of wherewithal or the time or the know how to deal with that.

      So, they are exposed to the risk.


      I'm sure SiteSell is really working well for some people...
      You're right. It is.


      but it certainly feels like there is some pressure from things like WP and all the other free options...
      One more time: there is no such thing as free once you are successful. The whole idea behind "free" is to get you hooked. Those companies gamble on your failure or mediocre results.

      SBI, on the other hand, assumes you will succeed. It works to achieve that result and openly displays its proven, verifiable results.


      Now, if some of you guys want to work your guts out, like creating hundreds of mini sites, or blogging your brains out and/or chasing the latest and greatest, all to remain competitive on the net and to keep money coming in, so be it. You've got more stamina than I do and deeper pockets than most.

      I prefer to create online businesses that eventually become easily managed, passive sources of income. I don't want to have to chase down the latest technique, read gobs of gurus everyday. I want to live life.

      I enjoy getting my checks every month, even during times when I don't even log in to check stats. (And there's nothing more thrilling than being gone for 2 months to find my stats have increased, as well as my income.)


      SBI is proprietary and WP is free and open source and you can find all sorts of resources for it all over the web.
      You're right again. The fact that SBI is proprieteary means that everything works together, like it's supposed to. There aren't compatibility issues.


      But what you've been alluding to, LB, is called the WordPress Gap. It's the gap between WordPress out of the box and off-the-shelf SBI. It's actually a viral marketing ploy, spurring a huge industry that caters to making WordPress an online business builder.


      Don't get me wrong, WordPress is great and some will become very successful with it. But we need to compare apples to apples, otherwise it's misleading. And for those who want to build a business, there are pitfalls. But if you like writing about the latest and greatest and have a newsy topic, it could work well. (I prefer SBI's Content 2.0, though, because it supplies me with 100s of new, original content pages at regular intervals. I get tired of writing.)

      Bottom line of this post: WP doesn't include everything you need (tools and training) to be successful. And to fill in the missing pieces, it would cost more than SBI.
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      • Profile picture of the author BillyPilgrim
        "(although I wouldn't recommend using the blogging format to build a business)"
        The SBI shill

        This is just plain nonsense. You can buy Bloghatter for a pittance and opoqos training for it for even less. And with that you have a business that doesn'y cost $300 a pop. SBI is for the completely unaware and is a rip for the dough.
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    • Profile picture of the author Yogini
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      I don't have anything against SBI, it has its niche...but the bashing of WP as "wannabe" is ludicrous.

      WP powers some of the most popular and profitable sites online and the variety of free plugins can do amazing things.
      I have to agree with this as I have some successful blogs using wordpress. There are excellent tutorials free at wf as well on this plus at youtube. Ethically, I have problems with SBI as an affiliate as I have been waiting for over 2 years to get my commission for the 2 renewals of the sbi site someone purchased through my affiliate link. I cannot get it from them till I make new sales (according to their tos). Third affiliate renewal will occur in December too!

      There are excellent tutorials on seo for wordpress that one can find in main discussion forum of warriorforum .

      Debbie
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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    • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
      Thanks for pointing that out, Billy.

      I guess I *am* a shill. And I love Kool Aid, whatever that means. :p Alas, and oh well! (tongue in cheek)

      Despite the innuendo, I'm not doing anything but clearing misconceptions. (Note my sig.)

      If telling the truth is wrong, well I hate to say it. But, maybe there's something wrong with how and where you guys get your information.


      Actually, I don't want anybody here buying Site Build It! because you'll waste your money. Unless, of course, you're willing to learn and work. It takes time, hard work and persistence, but it does work - like I said. Right out of the box.

      And other than doing my job for SiteSell Answers, I have no vested interest here.

      An interesting tidbit: I actually *do* have a successful online business and it's not making money off Internet Marketers. Unlike some others on this forum, I don't need Warrior forum sales to survive.

      Have a good day, all!
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      • Profile picture of the author LB
        My response above still stands.
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        • Profile picture of the author BillyPilgrim
          And I still agree.
          Avoid SBI, you can make great bank a lot cheaper. Stacy, your fear mongering about WP is embarrassing. If folks don't want blogs, go for XSite Pro, another great (one off price) product.

          And if you buy XSP, you might want to hunt down James Shramko (sp?) on here and buy through him. He has some great follow up material.
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          • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
            Fear monger?

            Don't be afraid.

            You don't get enough traffic to worry about it.

            Here's a for instance: I just ran across an SBIer's site while searching for something else today. It just so happened that the person was discussing his traffic levels. Nearly 20,000 uniques per day.

            I get about a third of that, so my business is a baby in comparison.

            But 20,000 vis is the kind of traffic volume SBI is designed to help YOU create. (if you work it)


            Now imagine having a business with than many vis and getting hacked.

            That would be a definite problem.


            So call me all the names you want. But try to think with apples to apples comparisons, please.


            And yes, I do protest loudly, LB, because I'm trying to get my point across:

            SBI is not just a site builder and to get WP to do what SBI does, it would not be free. And it would cost more than SBI.


            Now, I must scoot. Continue the name calling, if you like, but my response is this - compare apples to apples, please!

            Have a great weekend if I don't talk to you guys!
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
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      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
      I told you folks they would be along soon, lol.
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      • Hi everyone

        We bought into the SBI concept almost 3 years ago and found that it had way too much information and only served to confuse us more.

        The structure of the site back then (not sure what its like now) was too difficult to navigate as far as we are concerned, and the terminologies and assumptions didn't help.

        Enter Wordpress - totally different approach - still somewhat difficult for a new person mainly because of the sheer amount of plugins and the confusion around what goes with what.

        All in all though if we knew what we know now we would have gone with WP and saved the $300 bucks.

        Regards

        Bronwyn and Keith
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  • Profile picture of the author BillyPilgrim
    "You don't get enough traffic to worry about it."
    Oh, good lord, you have no idea. You're here to shill a product and you want to frighten people into thinking that they cannot build a business with Word Press without some alleged vast amount of money. And of course this is complete equine scat. Perhaps YOU couldn't do it. But no need to compare yourself to those who can.
    I think you have proven to anyone who cares to read this thread what you are.
    Anyone can create a very successful business, not only without buying your overpriced product, but simply by using free resources. I have to imagine anyone still reading has already made up their minds. I'm done.
    Caveat Emptor!
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    • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
      I don't understand why you're so upset about this and why you keep confusing what I'm saying.

      Let me say it another way:

      $300 a year to make a full time income. That's cheaper than driving back and forth to work.

      No upcharges. Everything in one place, just focus and get it over the hump.

      (Remember: apples to apples!)

      Of course, not everyone will do that. Not everyone will like it.

      But SBI *is* more than a site builder.


      Well, have a nice day!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rajul kaushik
    Alright, let me try and give out my thoughts.
    I had SBI way back in early 2008. I was probably in rush, so gave up SBI when i came across WF thru pluginprofit site. Getting on to PIP site was my biggest mistake.
    And the 2nd mistake I committed was to have got injected with the WF virus. I got carried away with the WSOs and the moon so many WSOs promised. Warriors, please be aware here: not every wso is as rock solid program as what opoqo, john schwartz etc and warriors ''in that league'' intend to conduct.

    Stacy is very right in pointing out so many positives SBI program offers. It's a program which is a ''one stop academy'' where u learn to build a business on the internet platform ( aka online business ). It offers every aspect of building a business on the internet: research, construction, management, marketing, promotion, delivery, upscaling etc etc. Even if u grab WP and use different methods of ''managing an online business'' by using different programs tools etc........they all cost money.

    So, the summary is: SBI is value for money. I have literally wasted 1000s of dollars on WSOs and have realised today that had i sticked to SBI and persevered and taken timely action according to what it teaches: I would have earned a lot more than what I am earning right now and believe me: I am going to purchase one soon because SBI will help me create a real, solid online business which no other program or programs combined will let me construct one.

    PS:
    This post does not intend to criticise wf in any way BUT what I definitely want to express is that: wso purchasers should be weary of the fact that there are umpteed WSOs which are nothing but recycled, re-worded guides, ebooks teaching one and the same thing. So warriors, pls do not rush on buying WSOs left right and centre. Let me caution u on the reviewed WSOs as well. 75% of WSOs are nothing but praises without revealing as to what the category or the topic of the wso is. The free review copy lot of times becomes an obligation for giving out a positive review. U like my comment or not but that's true.

    Further, WF is a great area to learn about internet marketing, getting ideas and obtaining guidance. I have learnt a lot from it.
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  • Profile picture of the author BillyPilgrim
    Raj,
    Let me add my kudos to opoqo. Geoff's material can teach you how to make a REAL business without the cost of of very expensive platforms. His system relies chiefly on FREE blogger blogs. Of course, like all businesses, it does take work.
    Please, people, never forget this part. Any WSO or guru nonsense that promises overnight success with the push of a button is bulls**t. But you should know that already.
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    • Profile picture of the author redhwk63
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      • Profile picture of the author jbpatlanta
        I just wanted to say that you that the statement you can't build a business based on WP is just totally ridiculous.

        I have WP blogs that are making money and show no signs of quitting, in fact they are getting more traffic everyday.

        I have a couple of SBI sites that also do very well. SBI is expensive, but for a content site, it works well.

        Will I buy more SBI sites? Maybe, if I am going to build another massive content site.

        My thoughts are if you are building small review sites - use WP
        If you are going for a 150 - 200 page content site - Consider SBI

        my 2 cents
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  • Profile picture of the author waken
    Well, I have never had them but read through their pages and tutorials. It looks sound and good. In fact super affiliates Rosalind Gardner and Allan Gardyne use SBI.
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    • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
      I just wanted to say that you that the statement you can't build a business based on WP is just totally ridiculous.
      I didn't say this.

      Please don't misconstrue and compare apples to apples, please.
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  • Profile picture of the author marcromero
    I'd save my $300 buck and just use wordpress. Just sayin
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  • Profile picture of the author careybaird
    I personally think the time spent learning to use Wordpress is a much better investment than the money you spend on SBI
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    • Profile picture of the author imguru
      Originally Posted by careybaird View Post

      I personally think the time spent learning to use Wordpress is a much better investment than the money you spend on SBI
      I agree! You have such a wonderful free tool in WP with every plugin and theme you could ever need. Why not use it?
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  • Profile picture of the author iobeek
    I don't use WP or SBI but I didn't see any WP bashing in this thread. The answers from that lady were clear and to the point. I see more SBI bashers in this thread Just saying
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  • Profile picture of the author Freedom2Live
    Hmmm .... what I have found interesting in this discussion, is that I don't see the "SBI! Bashers" particularly LB and BillyPilgrim, giving us any encouraging information about how many monthly visitors they receive or how much money they're making from even one of their Wordpress sites, yet StacyHolmes has been open, specific, upfront and very positive about both.

    That's what I took notice of.

    Seems like some people are just very good at throwing mud, hoping some of it will stick.

    Speaks for itself I think.
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    • Profile picture of the author balara
      I have an SBI site, and yes, I found the manual very longwinded and not easy to follow when I was just making my internet debut. But the amount of help I received from other SBI members was extraordinarily generous, and by the time my site was "finished", I had a pretty good knowledge of how to build a profitable site.

      I can share some of Stacy's passion for SBI. But I can also relate to others who may not have it. I wonder though, if those people took advantage of all that SBI offers members, or do they just use the site builder. If so, they are missing out on so much.

      On someones recomendation I bought XSP and up went the learning curve again! I use XSP for "small"sites and haven't again found the need for a 50-60 page site like my SBI one.
      However, now that I'm a bit more "seasoned", WP is my choice. So simple and so effective!

      Now I'm waiting for a genie to come along and do all the work for me.

      Veronica
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      • Profile picture of the author katied772
        Originally Posted by balara View Post

        I have an SBI site, and yes, I found the manual very longwinded and not easy to follow when I was just making my internet debut. But the amount of help I received from other SBI members was extraordinarily generous, and by the time my site was "finished", I had a pretty good knowledge of how to build a profitable site.

        I can share some of Stacy's passion for SBI. But I can also relate to others who may not have it. I wonder though, if those people took advantage of all that SBI offers members, or do they just use the site builder. If so, they are missing out on so much.

        On someones recomendation I bought XSP and up went the learning curve again! I use XSP for "small"sites and haven't again found the need for a 50-60 page site like my SBI one.
        However, now that I'm a bit more "seasoned", WP is my choice. So simple and so effective!

        Now I'm waiting for a genie to come along and do all the work for me.

        Veronica
        My path has been very similar to yours. I started with SBI and built two sites. SBI provides a fantastic learning environment. I learned so much about SEO there and there was always someone in the forums ready to help and provide answers. My main wish for SBI would be that they offer a discount for multiple sites. I couldn't see any point in adding 300.00 for each site to my budget when there are more cost effective choices.
        I also bought XSite Pro and love the ease and design possibilities. It offers so many features for a one time price. They also have a great forum with helpful members.
        For the longest time I had a mental block concerning WP. Just couldn't get the hang of it and felt really stupid since so many people find it easy to use. I alternated between giving up on it and refusing to give up. After much trial and error I finally can put up a site with WP and am really loving it now. Probably will still use XSite Pro for some sites but WP is my preferred choice now.
        I do think SBI is an excellent program to start with and as Stacy points out, it does teach about building a business. It offers a lot of value.
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  • Profile picture of the author sterlingtek
    SBI is a different way of looking at things as opposed to most of what is pitched here on WF.

    Please don't get me wrong there is a lot to learn here, a lot of it about seo and other ways to make money, short-term. Short-term is great and I have made a lot of money using short-term solutions. But... Google is constantly closing loopholes. The "farmer update" for instance, is targeted directly at content farming. Programs like Black hatter and other splog builders will eventually stop working. Google is always going to get smarter and smarter tricks are not going to work long-term.

    SBI is built around creating a long-term business. Before I purchased SBI I did a lot of research, many of their sites have been up 10 years or more. You don't renew, a $300 product 9 times if it's not making money. I prefer to work for long-term profit in general. I have a Yahoo store that's been making me 6 figures or more than 10 years. I pay a lot more than 30 dollars a month to keep it open.

    WordPress is not a bad for some uses but most themes I have found have way to many built in gadgets. Simple left column navigation is the usability golden rule. WP also does not facilitate a multi tiered content delivery system. Trying to build a content website where users can find lots of material easily about their interests is not a WordPress strong suite. A tiered system using categories is the best method of building navigation for a content and most e-commerce sites.

    SBI keyword training is not bad and the Brainstormer tool has some good features, it plugs into wordtracker data and does some of it's own manipulations. Personaly though I like Market Samurai more for most go/no-go decisions because it pulls the data for the 10 ten google results in automatically. MS also has fantastic training certainly the best I have seen and it is free.

    The other tools in SBI can be replicated on WP using plugins including the Content 2.0 module, but... The nav problem as far as I can tell is not really solvable and most people if they look farther than the landing page are only going to see the most recent posts. That is a great model for a gadget site, news site, personal blog etc.. but it is not a great structure for E-commerce or a content site.

    I am far from being a newbie and I still have learned new things from the training at SBI. I also have in my mind that I want to build a big content/ecom site and run a huge email list (free as part of the package). So SBI for me is a good fit and I think I will come out far ahead of the the game in the end.

    Good luck in all your endeavors.

    P.S. If someone knows how to solve the nav problems with WP I would appreciate a heads up.
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    • Profile picture of the author garben2011
      I first found SBI back in 2004 after spending a lot of time digging through info on making money online.

      Their whole focus on building a real longterm business appealed to me. It was the first thing that ever actually worked. And remains the only system I have invested in that works as advertised.

      I'm actually thinking of getting another SBI site. Because I noticed I could get hosting so much cheaper through HostGator I tried to mirror the SBI principles on my own. I don't know why really but for some reason it just hasn't worked nearly as well. Maybe the keyword research tool in SBI is just that much better. Or maybe they have elves working behind the scenes. I don't know really.

      All I know is I built 4 sites with SBI between 2004 and 2006 and each of these websites gets several hundred to several thousand unique visitors per day. And this is without spending hours building backlinks, etc. One of my sites has like 14 backlinks to it total and averages 600 unique visitors per day. I see other sites on the same subject with hundreds and thousands of backlinks ranking pages below this site. I just don't get it really but I honestly think there has to be something else going on behind the scenes they are not advertising.

      Just my two cents for what is it worth.
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      • Profile picture of the author kakaboo
        Originally Posted by garben2011 View Post

        All I know is I built 4 sites with SBI between 2004 and 2006 and each of these websites gets several hundred to several thousand unique visitors per day. And this is without spending hours building backlinks, etc. One of my sites has like 14 backlinks to it total and averages 600 unique visitors per day. I see other sites on the same subject with hundreds and thousands of backlinks ranking pages below this site. I just don't get it really but I honestly think there has to be something else going on behind the scenes they are not advertising.
        It doesn't matter how many visitors your site is getting.. especially if you don't even know where they came from. What's more important is whether the sales you are getting tallies with the number of visitors you have... if not then you know it's SBI tampering with the numbers behind the scenes just to keep their customers happy.

        P.s. NOT implying that SBI is doing any sort of that thing here though
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        • Profile picture of the author pappyy3
          I haven't used wordpress but have used SBI in the past.

          It's a great concept for someone who is starting out.

          I think some peole are missing the point here ..... I feel SBI is more that just a site building tool. It walks you through the process of building a business (if that's what you want to do).

          Wordpress is a website building tool - that's it.

          Not relevant to compare the two on that basis.

          If it's a website builder you want, then yes XSite Pro, Wordpress, SBI or any other web site builder will help you build a site depending on your experience level.

          If it's more hand-holding, support you require to build a business on-line, you won't regret SBI. Price is a little on the steep side, but well worth it until you gain some experience to do it all yourself.
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          Tonster

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        • Profile picture of the author garben2011
          Originally Posted by kakaboo View Post

          It doesn't matter how many visitors your site is getting.. especially if you don't even know where they came from. What's more important is whether the sales you are getting tallies with the number of visitors you have... if not then you know it's SBI tampering with the numbers behind the scenes just to keep their customers happy.

          P.s. NOT implying that SBI is doing any sort of that thing here though

          Oh, I know where the visitors are coming from. In addition to the SBI traffic numbers I use google analytics on the sites.

          The traffic comes from Bing, Yahoo and Google almost exclusively. That is why I was saying I don't quite understand how the pages rank so high with hardly any backlinks and in many cases 0 backlinks to the pages.

          As far as sales stats jiving I have nothing I am selling directly from the sites. But they do funnel several hundred targeted visitors to Amazon each day and every day 2 or 3 orders are made on Amazon. Which I consider good considering the traffic is about 70% USA based and with Amazon only the USA visitors count as an affiliate sale.
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  • Profile picture of the author Retta
    Just ran across this thread and can't help throwing in my 2 cents worth. I had been trying to make a living on the internet through wordpress for a little over a year. My results were pitiful and I was actually embarrassed to tell people I knew about my sites. I had looked at SBI before but like many others felt the price was too steep. But I came to a point where I knew I had to learn how to do things or get myself a real job again. no contest, I plunked down my money (which you can now do at $30 a month, with a 3 month trail guarantee). I have been at it for 3 months now and believe me, I won't be asking for my money back. The training here is phenomenal! Takes a while to start to absorb it all, but worth the time and effort. I am not making tons of money YET, but I fully intend to.

    This is not for people that like to throw up small sites and move on to the next one. WP is perfect for that, but that is not the type of site I wanted to build and for me SBI has been the answer I was looking for. Not just the training and attitude, but the tools (the ones that are all included and I don't have to pay extra for and that all work together without me having to learn how to connect them all)

    If you would like to check out the type of site I am building with SBI, feel free to visit me at Hawaii Vacation Guide, Get The Most From Your Trip To Paradise

    Ciao!
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    • Profile picture of the author RB
      Right on Retta, SBI does work, but it's not for everyone. I've been a member for 4-5 years now because I can't give up the keyword research tool BrainStormIt.

      The reason I had to comment here...because I also have Market Samarai and Micro Niche Finder. I can't help it, I'm addicted to keyword research. I know there are many other good tools, both paid and free.

      But, while Market Samuria and Micro Niche finder have been seriously affected by recent google changes, adword changes, and some other factors, SBI's BrainstormIt continues to work flawlessly and assigns an index value to both demand and competition based on far more than just google adwords and the other metrics used by MS and MNF.

      In fact, regardless of what you purchase, tool or IM marketing product or procedure - you need to ask yourself if it has been created prior to the Google farmer update, has it been affected by the farmer update and if it could be rendered useless or altered by any future Google changes.

      Guess what, every time I log into Micro Niche Finder or MS, I have to update the software because of Google's farmer update. I have not had to do that with SBI's keyword research tool.

      It has never failed me and is always a good validity check against all other methods.

      I do not have an SBI site. I prefer to have my own hosting. And while SBI's page builders offer great value, so does XsitePro2, as long as you know your stuff.

      SBI has not altered their course because they set sail with the absolute proper course of providing relevant value to the surfer and that ultimately is exactly what Google wants.

      I do totally value the warrior forum too. I've learned so much here and I'm grateful for the free and paid for tasty morsels.

      I guess I will continue to be an internet polygamist....

      To each their own. Best of luck with your nice looking site.

      RB
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      • Profile picture of the author Retta
        Thanks for the compliment on my site RB. And funny you should mention MS, it was actually one of the deciding factors for me to try SBI. I was so tired of it hanging up on me all the time and giving me results that changed from week to week (drastically!). It was also looking at creating an email list, which I would have to pay for on top of my hosting and other things that SBI rolls into one, I really felt was good value for my money. I'm a true believer and now it is time for me to get back to work!
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        • Profile picture of the author SommerS
          I'm with SBI for 1,5 years already, and likely going to quit. That was hard decision to join them, because it's quite expensive, but I was very positive then, I'm not so positive any more. I was a complete newbie at that time and didn't know a dime about IM.
          I know a little bit now (not very much though), but one thing I want to point out is, from the very beginning they are encouraging you to do what you like and what you're passionate about, WRONG !!!. That way you're building hobby not business, yes you can make some decent money out of it if you're lucky enough to have profitable hobby.
          To build a profitable business you have to solve other peoples needs and problems, SBI doesn't teach that. I failed with my website because that was hobby website, and after brainstorming keywords I found it is very hard to put them together to make website, I even bought one-to-one coaching (it's not cheap) to get better understanding what and how to do for better performance, what a crap, after coaching I wasn't smarter than before, though my wallet was much lighter.
          Actually every time I'd use SBI Action guide, I'd feel overwhelmed, material and teaching methods are boring.

          by Bronke13:
          "We bought into the SBI concept almost 3 years ago and found that it had way too much information and only served to confuse us more.

          The structure of the site back then (not sure what its like now) was too difficult to navigate as far as we are concerned, and the terminologies and assumptions didn't help."


          Completely agree and it's the same now, I didn't give up for 1,5 years, but I'm feeling that I have enough now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Natlex
    I had done SBI early on but I went for the refund quickly, having only one domain per $300 package is really expensive. Also, it's best to just learn wordpress and do your own websites that can all be hosted on a $10/month package. As far as training, a lot of the info can be found for free on things such as the challenge or partly on my own blog, unless it got updated in the last year the information was very basic (good, but that type of info is everywhere now)
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    ---> My blog on making niche sites & ranking them with SEO for a full time income since 2010 !<----

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  • Profile picture of the author TheMole
    I joined SBI 7 years ago and stayed a member for three years. I learned a lot from Ken Evoy who must be one of the most credible teachers in the industry. But I got to a stage when it was time to move on. You see, SBI is kinda like a sect with many devoted followers who adore their leader and love the cameradery. And it works for them. I just had to experience other religions and am glad I did. The principles I learned at SBI still form the foundation of my IM career but the world moved on
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    • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
      Hi Guys

      Just checking in on some of the statements being made in this thread. There's a couple in particular I would like to address.


      SommerS said:

      I know a little bit now (not very much though), but one thing I want to point out is, from the very beginning they are encouraging you to do what you like and what you're passionate about, WRONG !!!. That way you're building hobby not business, yes you can make some decent money out of it if you're lucky enough to have profitable hobby.
      I'm sorry, but I think you missed something here. It does say to follow your passion, but with several caveats. It's in the Day 2 and 3 materials. You are instructed to start out with 3 site concepts that you feel you would like to do. Then it walks you step by step through each of those concepts to determine which is the most profitable. It also teaches you how to determine which keywords are the most commercially viable. Once you've gone through the 3 concepts, it encourages you to try more, if you're not convinced of the profitability of the results.

      Then, on Day 4, you are instructed to move slowly and carefully through the data and look for monetization options. This is the part where you take a long, hard look at your niche and determine if it can earn income. If after doing this, you can't see where it's profitable enough, one is encourage to go back and keep working until one finds a profitable niche or spin on a niche. If one isn't thorough in applying the materials and establishing their business, that is not the fault of SBI.



      To build a profitable business you have to solve other peoples needs and problems, SBI doesn't teach that.
      It does teach that. It's in the Day 10 materials. Also in a few of the recommended ebooks. I think you missed something there, as well.



      TheMole said:

      You see, SBI is kinda like a sect with many devoted followers who adore their leader and love the cameradery.
      SBIers are a close-knit bunch because they have a lot in common. Because they speak the same language and go through the same process, there is a lot of understanding there. This would be opposed to people coming from different backgrounds, speaking different languages, doing different things. In that scenario, people would tend to feel like strangers, because there are too many differences.

      The camaraderie in SBI is a natural occurrence because people have so much in common. Each person has a different site and a different topic, but use the same tools, the same process and help each other in the forums.

      Ken Evoy just happens to be a really incredible person, so people look up to him. I don't see how that's a bad thing.


      ------

      But, as has been said countless times in the past, Site Build It isn't for everyone. Do what you guys think is best.

      ------



      RB said:

      SBI has not altered their course because they set sail with the absolute proper course of providing relevant value to the surfer and that ultimately is exactly what Google wants.
      Good point. I don't ever think I've heard it put any better than that.


      Gerben said:

      That is why I was saying I don't quite understand how the pages rank so high with hardly any backlinks and in many cases 0 backlinks to the pages.
      I know. Isn't it interesting how Site Build It sites perform so well? There's a joking page, where it says SBI seems like magic, which of course it's not. But it is quite effective which is why many people love it.


      Have a good holiday, everyone!
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        Originally Posted by StacyHolmes View Post

        Hi Guys


        I know. Isn't it interesting how Site Build It sites perform so well?
        Disingenuous is more like it. The folks who go on about how well Suckers Buy It sites perform are the demographic SBI appeals to the most....people who don't know any better. Oh, and their cult-like propagandists.

        Please, folks, unless you have a burning desire to needlessly spend $300(or whatever it is these days), when it comes to SBI....just say no.
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      • Profile picture of the author SommerS
        Originally Posted by StacyHolmes View Post

        Hi Guys


        I'm sorry, but I think you missed something here. It does say to follow your passion, but with several caveats. It's in the Day 2 and 3 materials. You are instructed to start out with 3 site concepts that you feel you would like to do. Then it walks you step by step through each of those concepts to determine which is the most profitable. It also teaches you how to determine which keywords are the most commercially viable. Once you've gone through the 3 concepts, it encourages you to try more, if you're not convinced of the profitability of the results.

        Then, on Day 4, you are instructed to move slowly and carefully through the data and look for monetization options. This is the part where you take a long, hard look at your niche and determine if it can earn income. If after doing this, you can't see where it's profitable enough, one is encourage to go back and keep working until one finds a profitable niche or spin on a niche. If one isn't thorough in applying the materials and establishing their business, that is not the fault of SBI.
        That may be easy enough maybe for seasoned Internet marketer, how about newbies? I was complete newbie when started with SBI and bought this conception "follow your passion, do what you like" etc. But what if I can't turn my passion into something profitable. Then I have to go back and choose something else, but will it be your passion anymore, most likely no, so why mislead people from the very beginning.



        Originally Posted by StacyHolmes View Post


        It does teach that. It's in the Day 10 materials. Also in a few of the recommended ebooks. I think you missed something there, as well.


        To build a profitable business you have to solve another peoples needs, not to follow your passions and do what you like.
        SBI teaches that in day 10! in very last day?, Cmon that has to be done in very first day instead of "follow your passion, do what you like"
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        • Profile picture of the author Retta
          Originally Posted by SommerS View Post

          That may be easy enough maybe for seasoned Internet marketer, how about newbies? I was complete newbie when started with SBI and bought this conception "follow your passion, do what you like" etc. But what if I can't turn my passion into something profitable. Then I have to go back and choose something else, but will it be your passion anymore, most likely no, so why mislead people from the very beginning.





          To build a profitable business you have to solve another peoples needs, not to follow your passions and do what you like.
          SBI teaches that in day 10! in very last day?, Cmon that has to be done in very first day instead of "follow your passion, do what you like"
          If you have been with SBI for over a year, you should have had time to thoroughly go through the action guide (a few times). It does tell you how to make sure your site concept is profitable and what to do if it is not. (either dump it or find a new spin on it)

          I had been doing IM for a little over a year before I took the SBI plunge and just wasn't getting it, no successes at all. I sucked at it, to tell the truth.

          I have learned more in the last 4 months than I did the entire previous year. I can say that I am now on the right track.

          I can also say that after learning things with SBI you could move on to something less expensive. You can even take your SBI site with you. But I like the system as is, all the tools in one place and I know they all work together. Someone else sets up all that for me, so when new tools come on board I don't have to mess with making them integrate. I just keep working on my site.
          For anyone looking for a GRQ, this is not it! But it is a system that has what you need to learn how to do IM.

          And I am seriously not a cult member! But I do like how the folks in the forum there are willing to help you figure out how to do something for yourself and will post links to information you may find helpful.

          OK, time for me to quit lollygagging and put back on the "SBI Blinders" LOL.

          As a parting thought, why not have a look at some of the SBI sites and decide for yourself if they are decent sites or not? I think that is the best measurement of a system, the results.
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          • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
            It's hard to understand why some folks, like Black Hat Cat, choose to continuously dump on a product that truly enables folks to build effective Web businesses, and that proves it. Ken Evoy has answered the anonymous Black Hat Cat before so no need to repeat that here. His desperate hatred of SBI! is puzzling. There is just too much proof that it works to be so hateful.

            --

            In any event, I just thought I'd update this post...

            Since Andrew posted to start this thread in October, his traffic has increased substantially, many times what it was in October with a good percentage of that coming from Google. All in all, not bad for a site that is a little over a year and that is in a fairly tough cateogry, health and fitness.

            And, more exciting, his upward trajectory forecasts a much larger success.

            (NOTE: Andrew does not specifically call out his domain in his post, but I was able to look it up in our database. I'm being vague enough about numbers to protect his privacy. Andrew could return her to confirm his traffic or you could find his domain in his profile and check his numbers for a rough confirmation at Alexa AND Compete -- use both to cross-check.)

            To those reading this with an open mind, just plug in the domain names and compare traffic at Compete or Alexa. You'll see Alexa counts of 4,000,000+ and Compete "no data" reports for sites (which means very little traffic). That includes the sites of the preceding post and Andrew's Wordpress site (that you also find in his profile). Andrew's SBI! site is certainly doing much better.

            The bottom line is that SBI! continues to deliver success at rates and levels that no one else in the world matches. The combination of the constantly updated Action Guide and other documentation, tools (which will cost you MUCH more than the $19.99/month extra you pay for regular hosting), and the most helpful e-business forums in the world more than justify the price (assuming if e-business success is your goal).

            --

            But really, like Ken always says, debating with people who don't know SBI! is so pointless. Folks like Black Cat are anonymous haters, why debate them and why listen to them? It really all boils down to one simple proposition...

            If you ARE already successful on the Web, you don't need SBI!. If you are not, or if you are just starting out, try SBI!. It really is your best chance to succeed at building an e-busines. And the Guarantee makes it risk-free.
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            • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
              Banned
              Originally Posted by StacyHolmes View Post

              It's hard to understand why some folks, like Black Hat Cat, choose to continuously dump on a product that truly enables folks to build effective Web businesses, and that proves it.
              It's not hard to understand at all. Maybe if you dropped your PR responsibilities for a moment, you could figure it out.

              I don't care how much SBI koolaid some people, like Stacy, guzzle down. In my opinion, it's a horrible deal, and a bit misleading. If horrible deals are you or anyone elses thing though, knock yourself out. Heck, buy 10 of them. No skin off my nose.
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              • Profile picture of the author pydy9916
                Well I have been at this for about 3 years and tried all kinds off different stuff. Here are my income results
                Affiliate websites (clickbank)....$45
                PPV......................$11.00 (cost $300!)
                Facebook and other social marketing.......$0
                My own product website.....$0( this one is new so not a true result)

                SBI website number 1.........$1000/month
                SBI website number 2..........$100/month

                All of the other crap I bought including "make money now" software... I eventually went for the refund. And NO I don't make any money as an SBI affiliate. All of my income from these two little sites comes from Adsense and affiliate product sales. Both are mostly content sites but are pretty much evergreen now which is fine with me! I do this strictly part time so I think $1100 per month to pay for my new car and cover my student loans is pretty good.
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                • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
                  Black Hat,

                  Anyone who refuses to discuss an issue on the merits knows he is weak, so he obfuscates instead.

                  A debate has, of course, at least 2 parties. Those who support SBI! truly love it. It's insulting to them and beneath you to insult them as cult members and koolaid drinkers.

                  You throw out words like "horrible deal" and "a bit misleading" when in fact, the TRUTH is that...

                  1) No other company or product in the world can publish proof of success. Even in THIS thread, it's clear how well an SBIer is doing, especially compared to others. You ignore facts like that because, well, you have no reply, other than yet more unsupported venom.

                  2) So you return to the same old "koolaid." Jim Jones killed people, SBI! enables people. Have you ever seen all the "thank you's" that come into the forums? What Koolaid? What could be simpler than this..

                  "If you ARE already successful on the Web, you don't need SBI!. If you are not, or if you are just starting out, try SBI!. It really is your best chance to succeed at building an e-busines. And the Guarantee makes it risk-free."

                  You do readers (who have yet to succeed online) a disservice when you say, "If horrible deals are you or anyone elses thing though, knock yourself out." Compare that statement to the one just above -- "If you are successful, don't buy it."

                  By the way, this is one of the really big advantages of the SBI! Forums. Everyone works together. There are no hidden agendas from participants to give bad advice. Ken tells people to refund SBI! and buy Wordpress if that tool is right for the business model they want to build.

                  Whether one looks at you with your Black Hat or me with my "PR hat," it should be clear to any discerning reader who takes the time to reply with answers what readers here deserve -

                  And who, in fact, is serving the poisoned drink.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by StacyHolmes View Post

                    And who, in fact, is serving the poisoned drink.
                    You are. And no matter how much nonsense you spew, it will still be nonsense. And I don't think you want to bring the SBI forum into this discussion, lol. It will not end well for you.
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                    • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
                      Thank you, Black Hat Cat, for that welcome.

                      Oh My,

                      I see the haters are out in full force. The strange thing is that they never answer fact with facts, just more hatred. Hatred of a product that works. I bring out facts and stats that are verifiable and that prove points. And the haters bring out, what ... hate?

                      The truth is, we give proof (SBI! - Proof Of Success) and offer a guarantee. That's the simplicity of the matter.

                      So, as I stated before, if you are already successful on the Web, you don't need SBI!. If you are not, or if you are just starting out, try SBI!. It really is your best chance to succeed at building an e-busines. And the Guarantee makes it risk-free.


                      Now cobwab, I see you are still an SBIer, with an Alexa ranking of 2.3M, and a Compete rank of 1.7K. This is below the average SBIer. Why are you still with us?

                      I also see that Compete does not even have any data on your non-SBI! Wordpress site, compared to 1.7K for your SBI! site?

                      Maybe THAT's why you're still with us, because Site Build It! performs better?


                      And if I understand correctly regarding SiteSell's affiliate program... you want SBI! to send you money for making no new sales? Is that correct?

                      Please point to the documentation that you received after you joined the 5P Program that states where you would receive the money you are stating? Please refer to your affiliate agreement which is openly available to you.

                      I am here in good will. I bring stats and truth, show proof and openly mention the guarantee.

                      To all of you, a Merry Friday, a Good Weekend and may all your ventures be profitable!
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                      • Profile picture of the author Max Yeo
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                        • Profile picture of the author batchos
                          The question is how do you know when to cut your losses from an ineffective mentor?

                          Originally Posted by Max Yeo View Post

                          To learn from multiple mentors is the most common newbie mistake on the path to information overloading, analysis paralysis and capital resources overused.

                          Do more to learn more, NOT learn more to do more.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Yogini
                            Originally Posted by StacyHolmes View Post


                            The bottom line is that SBI! continues to deliver success at rates and levels that no one else in the world matches.
                            You seem unfamiliar with the success of marketers such as Lisa Parmley, Carey Bergeron, John Xfactor and others who all make large authority sites and have incomes over 10,000 dollars a month? Why not study these models as well? This is why people are saying you speak like a cult member. Why not get a well-rounded study done as see that many people make large sites using wordpress and other platforms. Are you familiar with the work and success of any of the above people? Cult members only study one teaching and that is why people are making the comparisons.


                            Originally Posted by StacyHolmes View Post


                            So please, Stephen, be specific. So many people SAY that there are better systems, etc. Somehow, they never get around to the rigorous exercise of boiling it down to accurately comparing proof of success, cost of features, guarantee, etc.

                            And that is because there really is nothing better, not when you rigorously measure reward:risk ratio.
                            See above. Has SBI compared their sites to those made by systems such as Lisa Parmley, Xfactor and others that don't use SBI?

                            Originally Posted by cobwab View Post


                            Sitesell owes me $300 in commissions. Which they refuse to pay unless I entice some new sucker to join the cult. The $300 is renewals of folks I initially got to join for $300 which is no bargain.

                            Because I will never promote this pretentious product or its morally corrupt Canadian company, Sitesell, my commissions will continue to grow as long as my folks renew. But I will never get my commission unless I find a brand spanking new customer. This tactic just turns me off.

                            Much of the information on WF is free. The WSOs keep you current and you get your money back if they are not up to snuff.

                            This thread is just an great example of the in-depth analysis that you find on the WF.
                            Yes, I am in the same boat. I'm owed for 4 renewals from sitesell but because I've made no new sales cannot get them. Sure, it is in the TOS for affiliates , but does anyone understand how someone even theoretically would ever be paid for their last sale? They couldn't because you have to make new ones to get your previous ones!

                            Originally Posted by Max Yeo View Post

                            To compare apples with apples, Stacy. How much do you know about WP? You feel that some of the people here don't understand SBI, and they are bashing it. But I feel that you are just like them too, just the other way round.
                            There are many ways to make large authority sites and wordpress is an excellent way. It is easy to learn and there are great plug-ins as well to help with seo. Don't let anyone convince you there is only ONE way to do things.

                            Debbie
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                            • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
                              Banned
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                              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                Lol, l can understand peoples point of view including Black Hat Cat.

                                I have had an SBI site for about three and a half years, here is my view...

                                I picked toy and game inventing because l invented a successful puzzle and after tossing around 3 different website ideas, decided that if l was to stay with the "do what you love thing" that toy and games would be a good compromise with making money, etc.

                                After 2 years of hard work, believing that, it would make money eventually, and not making a cent, l shelved it and went into Hostgator type sites.

                                So far l have created 2 sites, one is doing well, and another isn't far behind, they say that you have unlimited pages, (it is 100 page limit) and the email part doesn't work most of the time for anything other than the business account, but it is a much cheaper way of finding a hot niche or site than SBI.

                                More than 3 years later, and after trying virtually everything to get my SBI site to cough up, l have found that adsense will make some serious money from this site, soon.


                                Yes, Black Hat Cat, l have been drinking Cool-Aid for too long, but it will work out in the end.


                                Their forums are great generally speaking, but they do have their drawbacks. Try to have a discussion like this, especially about other web hosts, and usually, especially if a lot of newbies are on the thread, you will hear stark silence.:confused:

                                The newbies are too scared to say anything about other hosts, and others that have deep pockets and managed to get their first or second site to make them serious money, tend to either ignore you or correct your line of thought, (there is a subtle Cult aspect with the successful SBI,ers).

                                And l do remember raising a similar thread over there, but after a moderator told me l wasn't doing something right, (a successful one) the thread was closed. Not realizing that the sites niche was only good for adsense, and not adding enough backlinks, was the only things that l did wrong? (Cool-Aid in one hand and a magic-wand in another). :confused:

                                The proof of success is good, but virtually any business out there has a small percentage that can wave their magic wands around and make a good profit, then show their results. It is no guarantee, but it just shows that it is possible!

                                And if you go to the right thread you will find several SBI sites being sold, usually new age, and purely hobby type sites, not surprising!

                                I agree that authors and SBI, pushes the "do what you love" thing because just like authors out there they have realized that it sells the most books or sites, even though like me you can also spend years of your life and quite a lot of money flogging a dead horse.

                                When l first started my SBI site, it took me more than 3 months of hard work to get to adding pages to my site. You can set up an SBI site now for $29 a month, although Hostgator can give you 10 sites for $10 a month, (not including domain names).

                                So its the people that managed to make their SBI sites profitable after 3 months to a year or so that tend to rave about SBI. But its people like me, that give a both sides review.

                                SBI is also unlimited pages, but their autoresponder is a bit limited and has the occasional visual bug, Aweber is far superior even though expensive, but worth it.

                                Hostgator can be a nightmare for a newbie to learn, but it has the cheap price tag, and SBI is a substantial investment and steep learning curve.

                                I should also point out that my SBI site is currently almost at the 500,000 mark on Alexia, so the part that SBI sites usually end up in the top 1% of sites is accurate, but the part about your site making a profit after a few months, is pushy reality, (Cool-Aid in hand).

                                Some people can manage that, but l suspect that most wont.

                                Best to stay with Wordpress or Hostgator, etc initially to find the profitable sites, then invest in SBI, that way you wont blow the budget.


                                Shane.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                  Best to stay with Wordpress or Hostgator, etc initially to find the profitable sites, then invest in SBI, that way you wont blow the budget.


                                  Shane.
                                  If you've found a profitable site via Wordpress, what's the point of switching to SBI? That's even worse than getting SBI first, lol. It's like trading in Megan Fox for Betty White.
                                  And despite what you've been led to believe, SBI sites don't get "high" Alexa rankings because they're SBI sites. There's nothing unique or magical about them that increases their Alexa ranking. A Wordpress site can just as easily get the same Alexa rankings as an SBI site. Not that Alexa means anything anyway.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                    Hi Black Hat Cat,

                                    well l am not sure about Wordpress with free blogs, but Wordpress with Hostgator or Bluehost has a 100 page limit, (a business plan may be unlimited?) but for a baby croc, (one site) and hostgator, (10 sites) there is a 100 page limit.

                                    SBI is unlimited, so it does have one tick in that regard, if you want to build a monster site. It obviously isn't absolutely necessary. But a good option if you want or need it.

                                    And despite what you've been led to believe, SBI sites don't get "high" Alexa rankings because they're SBI sites. There's nothing unique or magical about them that increases their Alexa ranking. A Wordpress site can just as easily get the same Alexa rankings as an SBI site. Not that Alexa means anything anyway.
                                    Yep! Fair enough, just wanted to show that part of the sales pitch is genuine although as you have said, it means squat in regards to profit potential, but nice to see.

                                    I have a Hostgator site that is ranking on Alexia far more quickly than the SBI site did, and is currently up to 1,500,000 after a year, it would have flown past my SBI site if launched at the same time!

                                    SBI also doesn't allow you to have a full screen to build on, Hostgator, etc does, which is another big tick to go with cheaper or free sites.

                                    Although if you are into HTML/CSS is would be possible, but difficult for the newbie.

                                    Certainly if the adsense part of my site does, what it is supposed to, l would go with Wordpress/Hostgator, because 100K Blue Print, only does templates optimised to wordpress/Fantastico, so l get the conversion rates as high as possible and it is a cheap way to build wealth.

                                    Almost $1000 for 3 SBI sites is a bit too much and $90 per month is also a bit of a hike, but $10 a month is viable.

                                    Shane
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                              • Profile picture of the author Stephen Meyer
                                Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

                                OK, that's funny.
                                Signature
                                Find out how this guy went from being over $40,000 in debt to having total financial freedom and how you can to.Click Here: Freedom ~
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                                • Profile picture of the author DebbieD
                                  I'm not a member of SBI but I have read their SiteSell literature (I think it's called Action Guide, or something like that). It's free online, btw.

                                  I do think that SBI proves a valuable point in advocating that good content is king. But we all know that, don't we? I think it ranks well because it interlinks all the pages. You'll see a lot of links on an SBI site to different pages.

                                  One thing I don't like about it is the site's look. Whenever I land on a typical SBI site, I find it looks rather outdated. I just check it out by scrolling at the bottom and find Powered by SBI!
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                                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                    Hi Debbie,

                                    you are right about the Action Guide name.

                                    And the templates are a bit simple, but you can load up your own.

                                    Take a look at my site....

                                    l designed most of it myself....


                                    Toy and Game Inventor Success

                                    Shane
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                                    • Profile picture of the author DebbieD
                                      Your site looks very nice, Shane. But, I would be able to guess that it's an SBI site, even before scrolling down. Maybe it's because they usually don't take up the whole screen? Or maybe because the domain names usually have dashes in them? Dunno. Most of them just look very similar.

                                      One thing I do know is that SBI sites do (mostly) have a lot of good, informative content.

                                      Btw, I don't know how long you're working on your site, but when I typed in:
                                      "toy inventor success" it came up #2. I have no idea if that's a good keyword to rank for - just wanted to let you know.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                        Thanks, DebbieD.

                                        Three and a half years so far, and toy inventor success, isn't one of my page kw's, so it is probably one of my content kw's. Usually pays out very little, but always good to see another one of my related pages showing up top.

                                        Shane.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author cobwab
                                          On my SBI website, Cape Cod Beaches, I had a number of YouTube videos posted on many pages.

                                          At some point, all of the YouTube videos disappeared from my website. The embed code was still there, but there was a blank space where it used to be - a glaring hole in my page.

                                          So I checked back with SBI and found that I needed to convert these videos to another format and upload them to the SBI servers. It claimed to be a simple method, but it took six pages of single spaced text to explain how to do it. Simple, my a**,

                                          Contrast that to how I embed YouTube videos on my wp blogs. Activate a plugin and insert one line of code into a post and the video is displayed. No six page gobble-di-gook that will probably not even work on the first try, let alone the hoops you are forced to jump thru to get it to work.

                                          An abomination.

                                          Wordpress vs. SBI?

                                          No contest.

                                          A slam-dunk for Wordpress.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                            Hi cobwab,

                                            interesting what you said, l have had some YouTube videos on my site for a good part of a year with the occasional no video problem, but it eventually reappeared. Most of the time you can see it?

                                            But l have to admit that l have also put up virtually every Frank Kern video available, (about 50) on my Hostgator site, (Sitebuilder) and there is the occasional no-video, but refreshing the page usually does the trick.

                                            Just wondering if your problem is occurring more often than it should on your site?

                                            But come to think of it l do remember loading up my own videos, with this issue and subscribing to SBITube to get around it.

                                            It did fix the problem, but since the video has format issues, and can't be made full screen, and the site is now controlled by a third party company the standards have dropped quite a bit. I will probably save myself the $7 per month and go with Youtube instead.

                                            What video formats do SBI allow?

                                            It is refreshing to be able to have a conversation like this, if it was on the SBI forums, the Moderator would probably have an itchy "Locked button" finger by now...

                                            Cool-Aid on standby!

                                            Yep, l have to agree with the Action guide material, it is informative, but does tend to drag out the explanation, quite a lot. A lot of skimming is involved when looking up how to do something, there is a brief explanation, on the right, (on the sitebulider help pages) but is usually too brief. Between a rock and a hard place?

                                            Shane
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                                            • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
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                                              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                                Fair enough on some of your points Stacy, l may even be back here in a few months raving about SBI, when my site makes some decent $.

                                                But l also believe that a more open policy on other options should be made available, like if someone injects a point about newbies considering other cheaper options because they have a tight budget, shouldn't be frowned upon by seasoned SBI,ers not everyone can create a site that makes a profit after a couple of months.

                                                And creating up to 10 sites for next to nothing can be a good thing if it allows you to find a hot niche, that you can develop into an SBI site.

                                                People with a magic wand should be more aware that for others it can be a much tougher road.

                                                Or if someone who loves Porches, thinks that BMW,s aren't as good, they are just different.

                                                I am sure that the HTML templates are as good as any out there, l have seen some beautiful ones, but the Sitebuilder templates are good, with a few great ones. I wouldn't say all are attractive!

                                                I understand SBI dilemma, they want to sell as many sites as possible by saying put doing what you love with a good financial strategy.

                                                But it would be better to newbies to say we will offer you 3 site for this discount, so you can built one practical site that fills a need in the marketplace, to get some $ coming in, then do one, that is a compromise, and a third one that is pursing a passion, that may work?

                                                At least newbies wouldn't hit their heads against a wall for years, the occasional buy one get one free and the monthly payment plan is heading in the right direction, they just need to readjust their business strategy a little.

                                                That way newbies have a fair chance of an early success, SBI makes a great profit, and they keep their members under their roof, instead of them wandering off, to find cheaper options.

                                                A lot of newbies are cash-strapped.

                                                SBI is a great institution, but they do sugar coat a few things, but Hostgator, does as well with their crappy contact me application and unlimited pages, (which is 100).

                                                And the expense is in some ways fine and in others not fine, it all depends on your financial situation, and what you are willing to give up in the short and long term.

                                                Shane
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          • Profile picture of the author cobwab
            If you like cults, you'll love the Kool-aid at SBI.

            It's just a huge scam.

            Sitesell owes me $300 in commissions. Which they refuse to pay unless I entice some new sucker to join the cult. The $300 is renewals of folks I initially got to join for $300 which is no bargain.

            Because I will never promote this pretentious product or its morally corrupt Canadian company, Sitesell, my commissions will continue to grow as long as my folks renew. But I will never get my commission unless I find a brand spanking new customer. This tactic just turns me off.

            Much of the information on WF is free. The WSOs keep you current and you get your money back if they are not up to snuff.

            This thread is just an great example of the in-depth analysis that you find on the WF.

            Evoy downplays Wordpress because his platform only produces static websites. He tries to make them interactive, but the attempts are clumsy, inept and awkward.

            If you want a static website, there is free HTML all over the internet. Just plug it into a free wysiwg editor like NVU for the pc or Kompozer on the mac, add a free FTP like Filezilla and you're in business. $10 for a domain name and Hostgator for a server (the 3 year plan cost $3.95 a month) and that's it. That's a lot less than SBI! and without all the BS from Ken.

            The SBI gestapo will show up here soon and the usual suspects will be rounded up and freight-carted to limbo for revealing that the man behind the curtain is a fraud spinning byzantine threads of convoluted logic.
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            • Profile picture of the author cobwab
              Contrary to what Stacy would have you believe, SBI cost $300, not $29.99. The $29.99 is the monthly cost which brings the cost way up to $359.88 when you pay by the month.

              Evoy also discourages members of the cult from seeking information outside of the cult. Here is a quote from his newsletter:

              "No need for you to read 100+ Net-marketing e-zines, blogs & feeds -- we do that for you. SBIX boils it all down and reports only the important material you need to know.

              You are always up-to-date and "noise-free." There are no back issues because all important information goes into the various HQs in Site Central.

              It's all part of the overall SBI! policy... SBIX & the HQs deliver all (and the only) key Web marketing news, strategies and analysis that you need. You literally gain tens of hours per week ignoring all the outside noise. Use that time to grow what's important... your business."

              Yes, SBI drip feeds you only the information the great god Ken deems relevant.

              Don't go to WF - it will mess you up and you might actually make some money.
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              • Profile picture of the author cobwab
                Interwoven marketing, indeed!

                What a concept.

                More kool-aid.

                SBI's marketing sucks.
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  • Profile picture of the author daxcheng
    I have a SBI site and I am making money from that site since 2002.

    My simple review:
    Pros: Complete system, Includes All the tools you would need (think Market Samurai, Aweber, etc), Most importantly, can make money

    Cons: A little on the high end, there are better systems out there (true but you have to find them), their affiliate program is more MLM that I like.
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    Warmest Regards
    Dax Cheng
    writing-business-letters.com

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    • Profile picture of the author Stephen Meyer
      I keep reading that SBI has tools, well, what tools? What do the tools do? What are they called?

      Building a site is easy once a person understands the fundamentals of how their chosen content system works. Learning on and off site SEO isn't hard and all the information you need can be found for free with a quick search. Marketing doesn't take long to learn and again learning how can be found quickly with a search. When I think of tools I think of things like TBS, AMR, SEOLR, SEONx, Magic Submitter, WebCompAnalyst, SEO Quake, UAW and the like.

      I haven't looked at SBI in a long time. If it has tools to help market like those above then at $30.00 a month it's a bargain. It might be a bargain anyway just for the training as mentor sites cost from $37.00 a month to $97.00 a month. But, i wouldn't pay for mentoring or coaching. All I would be interested in is a systems with tools.
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      Find out how this guy went from being over $40,000 in debt to having total financial freedom and how you can to.Click Here: Freedom ~
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      • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
        Question:

        I keep reading that SBI has tools, well, what tools? What do the tools do? What are they called?
        Answer:

        SBI! - All the Tools
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        • Profile picture of the author Stephen Meyer
          After looking at the site, my affiliate link (I've been an affiliate for 4 years) and the 5 pillar club to see what is being promoted I can say that it is not for the experienced marketer who can do everything SBI does for free and very quickly. Tools, as I listed above are not there.

          With that said, it is a good deal for the newbies and at $29.99 a month it is a reasonable price. It will help them find a profitable Niche, build a site draw some traffic and monetize the site. If i were a newbie I would use it to learn from and to build a site with and then take the site and gained knowledge and move on to do it myself after a year or so. The only issue I see is, can the site you build be moved? If it can then it's an OK program for newbies.

          Now, with all that said, there are far better programs available that will not only teach a new person to market their site but will also help build their site and give personal training. The site I am thinking of is around $55.00 a month and well worth the extra money because it teaches marketing.

          For me personally, I can't see anything of value and certainly not anything I can't do myself both quickly and free. Experienced marketers know, you can't beat a WP site no matter if you want to build a huge content site or a simple Mini Site. But, those with experience also know how it's done where a new person needs to learn it.
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          Find out how this guy went from being over $40,000 in debt to having total financial freedom and how you can to.Click Here: Freedom ~
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          • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
            Hi Stephen,

            There is a lot more included with SBI than just the tools. Your question was about the tools, and that's what I showed you. But there is much, much more and training is big part of that.

            What you just said is what so many people who don't know SBI! say, after a quick glance or a few minutes of review.

            Let's boil it all down to the essentials and put it on the line...

            1) Show me, please, the product or system that delivers success (that is better than SBI!), together with their documented proof of success that shows how it delivers results at a higher rate and level of success than SBI! does ( SBI! - Proof Of Success ), and please include the following...

            2) What type of Guarantee, at what type of price? (SBI! is only $29.99, which is cheap compared to what you are talking about).

            Success is the bottom line -- it is also the all-important UPside. The Guarantee removes DOWNside (as you've seen in this thread, even those who end up leaving SBI! rave about how much they learn). So the reward:risk ratio of SBI! is extremely high.

            The price is very low, for all that you get. And truthfully, you canNOT get that list of tools for free. Content 2.0 alone is worth the price of SBI! and no other product in the world offers that module ( SBI! 2.0 ). And that is just one example.

            So please, Stephen, be specific. So many people SAY that there are better systems, etc. Somehow, they never get around to the rigorous exercise of boiling it down to accurately comparing proof of success, cost of features, guarantee, etc.

            And that is because there really is nothing better, not when you rigorously measure reward:risk ratio.


            Also, just to respond to your claim about marketing--

            SBI! very definitely does teach marketing. It's interwoven through every page of the Action Guide and throughout the various HQs (traffic, Tips and Techniques, etc.). It would not be possible to succeed without marketing.

            Hope this helps clarify!
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  • Profile picture of the author zenji
    I almost joined SBI but glad I didn't. The information on how to go about everything in IM is on forums like these and it's free of charge. And to even spice it up, you get to make friends here learning all sorts of things.
    SBI is not for adventureous people like me who love DIY
    Just my 2 cents...
    Dennis
    Signature

    Please do not use affiliate links in signatures

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  • Profile picture of the author pearsonbrown
    MODERATOR

    There are too many direct sales pitches by SBI staff in this thread for my tastes. It is one thing to defend your product. That is quite acceptable here. But pitching it goes too far.

    I'm closing this thread.
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