Listwire's sucess rate?

Hi Raindance,

Gary Ambrose is the owner of the third highest rated autoresponder, EmailAces. He knows how to get delivery. At one point you could get a limited account free on EmailAces.

The only reason I use the big 3 is to get delivery. However, if you want to take a flier, you can get ListmailPro free and install it on your own site. This is free, and should get deliveries if you look out for the wording of your emails, and if your IP is not in a blacklist. It is a good autoresponder.

Best regards,

He can't get his own emails into your inbox, and you still want to know more? :confused:

For me, quite apart from the deliverability problems (which I agree are obviously a significant issue), the Big Important Things would relate to:-

(a) whether I want to entrust the custody and security of my business's greatest asset to a third-party service which is free and doesn't have a long history;

(b) whether I want to send out emails all of which include a clickable link which allow my customers to see that I'm using a free service (not exactly the height of professionalism, perhaps, to put it mildly?).

Hey All,

First things first... the overwhelming majority of people here have absolutely no clue how email deliverability works. And when I say "no clue", that's being generous...

An identical email can go into the spam folder, the inbox folder, and can end up not being delivered at all... even if the message is the same content-wise, the recipient ISP is the same, and they're being sent as close to the same time as possible.

Now to hear some people say, "If his isn't going to the inbox, then why would you use that service"... the same can be said of ANY service, including GetResponse, Aweber, MailChimp, iContact, InfusionSoft, and so on, and so on, and so on...

EVERY single autoresponder service on the Internet today has the ability to land your message in the bulk/junk folder... and the amount of money you spend on your autoresponder service has no bearing on that statistic. The biggest single factor in placement of your message is content... and, that's entirely in YOUR control as the sender.

Individual inboxes have message rules that are specific to that one recipient, and a single action from that recipient can play more of a role in future inbox/bulk/non delivery placement than any other single factor... but, that all depends on the receiving ISP. This isn't the case for all ISP's... so for example, Yahoo plays by different rules than AOL, than MSN/Live, and so on...

It seems that in every List Wire thread, we see Shaun, and Alexa pop up... I'm not sure why, but they both chime in with something negative to say even though, to the best of my knowledge, neither of them is using our service.

To Shaun... I have no idea where that first post came in referring to Email Aces. We haven't actively promoted that service in more than 3 years, and I don't even mention it in my own products. We're phasing that service out, but at one time, it was one of the better services on the market... maybe the OP was referring to a post from 2004? Who knows?

That said, why do you have to jump in, and say something negative in every thread about List Wire? At this point, others have mentioned it to me ... and it's starting to look like it's personal. (no, I'm not kidding, but honestly, I can't figure out why)

Now on to Alexa... do you use YouTube? WordPress? Flickr? FaceBook? or Google's Organic listings as a part of your marketing? How about EzineArticles? If you do, you are using free services to build your business whether you like it, or not... shame on you for using something free. (sarcasm)

I also find it funny that when I click the link in your signature, it takes me to a page with a banner on it that reads... "includes free hosting". Free hosting? Really? You're going to say that using a free service is a negative when, you yourself, are recommending free hosting?

Pot, meet Kettle. (DOH!)

As for not having a long history with ListWire, Alexa, we've been over this... I've been in this market longer than just about anyone online (you included)... and, I'd be wiling to bet my house that I've been in this space, under my own name, for longer than 95% of the people on this board.

Should we start taking the advice of WF members based on the date they joined the forum? In that case, Alexa, no one should be listening to what you have to say if someone else jumps in, with a join date that's a few years earlier than your own...

Sounds silly, doesn't it? But that's basically what you're saying about our service. It's not old enough, so don't bother with it... so WF, let's base our opinions of everything on longevity now. Let's use AltaVista or Excite as our main search engine, B2 as the main blogging platform, and everyone... let's network on Friendster!

We've had List Wire open for almost a year now, and it was mentioned, specifically by name, in an interview I did back in December of 2005... that was while we were still in the planning phases before any coding had begun. We have history, and as pointed out above, using "history" as measure of success isn't a based on sound logic... so, you can stop using that as an excuse now.

Now to both Alexa, and Shaun... have either of you bothered to do any deliverability testing on List Wire? If you haven't, then neither of you have a leg to stand on, and should both stop making blind assumptions that are based on nothing more than hot air, and what again, seems like some personal something or other you have against me...

Our service was created to HELP the overwhelming number of people who can't afford to spend anything on an autoresponder service... and, although YOU may be in a great position to afford one yourselves, there are millions of people out there who can't... I've met them in person, I've read the emails they've sent into our help desks, and thousands of them are using our services right now.

Every day we get an email to our support system thanking us for making the service available, for helping them get their first subscriber, their first clicked link, and make their first sale online... stuff that NEVER would have happened for them if they were forced to pay for an autoresponder system.

In a perfect world, people would save up the money to pay for business expenses, and the profits they turn would be better re-invested into building the business... but, that's not reality. My country (the US) is notorious for not saving up for anything, and when the two options you have are to either pay the electric bill, or drop $20 into savings to pay for your autoresponder next month... no one is choosing the autoresponder.

You say, service X has a trial for only $1.00... um, that's a trial, not the actual price... and if you can't afford it when the service recurs at normal prices, the trial isn't going to do you a heck of a lot of good. People in debt, or who are living month to month tend to look at the ACTUAL cost of things, not just the cost for the first 30 days... strange, but true.

Or, service Y allows up to 500 subscribers for free... but... it's as long as you're not primarily an affiliate marketer, don't sell into one of the 50 niches they don't allow, and then, what happens when you reach 500 subscribers? Oh yeah... you can't afford the service and you're stuck with no list.

So look you two... and yes, I'm calling you two out, by name, specifically... the service may not be for you, and it may not be for 75% of the people on this forum, but I don't think either of you truly understand the potential consequences of what you're doing when your post so negatively about something you've never used...

When someone asks, and you tell them that, "Free isn't an option", you might as well be telling them...

"You have no options. Give up now."

Have you ever thought about it that way? That you've almost certainly prevented people from starting to build their first list? At this point those people still don't have a list, and they have no chance of making any money with a list because you told them not to use the best service that was available to them given their circumstances and budget...

So look, if you want to say... "We'd recommend a paid service first, but if that's not an option, use this free option to get moving"... How is that going to harm anyone?

The only result that can come of that is good as far as I can tell... that person is going to start building a list, and since that's why they're asking about autoresponders in the first place, that's a response that could actually lead the OP down a path that helps them start actually DOING SOMETHING!

If either if you want to talk to me about this via PM to clear up any personal matters, go ahead... I'm not hard to get a hold of.

-Gary Ambrose
Proud Owner Of List Wire

I don't think Shaun said anything negative about you at all. In fact, the one comment he made, you agreed with. (That emailaces is not exactly a front-of-the-pack autoresponder in 2011.)

And I don't think Alexa said anything that isn't simple, good, common sense. These ARE questions you probably ought to ask yourself. She doesn't state explicitly that the answer to either one would reflect negatively upon your product. But I've got to admit, your defensiveness makes me wonder.

Something along the lines of, "Hey Alexa, those *are* important questions, and here's how we address them..." would have done a lot more for this prospective customer's interest level and ease of mind.

Do yourself a favor, and shell out a little bit of money for a professional service. Aweber is $19 per month for upto 250 subscribers.

Just skip a movie this month and pay for that.

I mean, it's a business and businesses have their costs. I myself, would never sacrifice quality over cost.

Call me an idiot but I think if a person is backed against the wall so bad then I think they need to work on their priorities.

Instead of investing time and effort in a business venture (Yes Internet Marketing is a business), they need to make "getting a job" their #1 priority. Once they are strong enough to support themselves financially, then they should think about "improving" their income by looking online.

To be honest, being desperate doesn't change a thing. I don't care how desperate you are, it isn't possible for you to make money online in a short period of time when you don't even know the basics of running an IM business.

go with Gary Ambrose's product, he is very honest and full of integrity

Check out Imnica. They are great!

At last I have found something that I can disagree with Alexa on. Ever since she joined the forum I have found Alexa's posts to be informative and wise beyond her years and until now I have not been able to fault what she says.

I have been using Listwire for almost a year now. Not because I can't afford a paid service but because the niche that I'm using it for simply doesn't respond to email marketing. Not every niche does contrary to what many will tell you. I offer an autoresponder series to my visitors and a few take me up on it but to date there has been no income from that list. One day perhaps things will be different but for now, I am thankfull for Listwire for allowing me to provide a service that I would not be providing otherwise.

As far as deliverability goes I get email from all major services and they all have a tendancy towards the junk folder and at worst, Listwire is no worse than any of them.

Alexa, please don't take this the wrong way because I still think that you are amazing. Whenever I see an interesting thread I read the first post then immediately scan to see what you say before reading the remainder of the thread. I just happen to dissagree on this one point.

Gary, Thank you for giving me the opportunity to provide a service to my readers that I would not otherwise have been able to do.

I've tried Aweber. Imnica Mail is a MUCH better value in my opinion. And why someone would repeatedly say not to use ListWire, but then not give clear reasoning why not, makes me wonder. I tried ListWire. And it is a secondary option for me. I just didn't like the interface. But the mails went through alright. Free doesn't always mean crap.

I gone through this entire conversation; I am one of them who can't afford $19 every month for one particular service to start my IM career. But, I know how important it is to have a list and I got myself cleared to go for aweber or getresponse, even though, I need to invest beyond my capability.

I'll try this service for 3 months and see if I can get back what I had invested for this service. If not, I'll opt for an alternative.

Experience IMs may kindly advise if I should use Aweber or Getresponse..

Well, Gary, I still receive your mails through emailaces;

I tried Aweber once but I opt out because I really can't afford to pay $19 a month for limited subscribers? Listwire on the other hand...we'll interface is not good but sending quality e-mails is what I really care.

Thank God Listwire is here. Hope you guys stay long or even forever!

I get Gary's emails in my inbox.

I also get aweber, icontact, and 1 shopping cart emails (just to name a few) from
well known and reputable marketers in my spam folder.

In my experience with 3rd party autoresponders, the delivery has depended
on a few factors with content being a biggest as well as the reputation of the
"from" domain name being a close second.

And I have to second Gary's comments on the issue of free being the only option for a lot of people. It's true.

People are hurting.

Just the cost of filling up our gas tanks has gone up over $20 in the last year alone, so there goes most peoples budget for a paid service. And most working people have to fill up their tank at least once a week and that's not even talking about people who commute in bumper to bumper traffic from suburbs to main cities (like Long Island to Manhattan). So we're talking at least $80 more per month in gas expenses. In many cases double or triple.

That can cut into a lot of available discretionary money that may have been set aside
for normal internet business operating expenses such as hosting, an autoresponder service,
new domains, expiring domains, etc.

And rising gas costs is only one example. There's also the rising cost of food, groceries, and just about EVERYTHING else as a result of the higher cost of goods sold that this gas price inflation has caused.

Not everyone is in a position to pay for anything other than the bare necessities - if they're lucky.

And as Jason Fladlien mentioned, not everyone is using an autoresponder for financial gain. They could be aspiring musicians, someone running a charity to help people in need, or your local Church. If ListWire's deliverability is comparable to other paid options, why shouldn't these people use it?

- Jason

I've tried List Wire but I didn't like two things about it but I found the deliverability top-notch and the fact it's free makes it a superb service.

James Scholes