Can anyone recommend a genuine JV broker (IM niche)?

by Chris-
33 replies
I have some IM products which are selling, but my own list is very small at this stage, and I need to work with a really good JV broker who can send my offers to big lists to make me profit and build my list.

Can anyone recommend any GENUINE JV brokers who do a good job? By "genuine" I mean JV brokers who take a percentage of the successful sales (50% would be fine), NOT those who charge a huge fee before you even start.

thanks in advance

Chris
#broker #genuine #niche #recommend
  • Profile picture of the author LTurnerJVManager
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris-
      Originally Posted by LTurnerJVManager View Post

      The best brokers do charge an initial fee simply because that's security for both of you!
      How is me giving money to someone whether they do anything for me or not, "security" for me? It is the exact opposite of security, it is risk, precisely.

      I am looking for a JV broker who will get paid for what they DO.

      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author Kenster
        Originally Posted by Chris- View Post

        How is me giving money to someone whether they do anything for me or not, "security" for me? It is the exact opposite of security, it is risk, precisely.

        I am looking for a JV broker who will get paid for what they DO.

        Chris

        Especially in the launch management/brokering space, you get what you pay for. The difference between a net $100 and net $100,000 WSO really isn't that much...it's knowing how to set things up properly and having the right contacts on board.

        Big launch managers and brokers will often charge a large up front fee because their time is worth a lot and they want to be sure the product seller is fully committed. Remember, the seller will be doing A LOT of work to make the launch successful as well, it's not just up to the broker. So, the up front fee gives the manager/broker confidence that the seller is committed and will do what they need to do to make sure the launch is successful.

        I would never not charge a high up front fee for that very reason.

        If the seller isn't 100% committed and willing to put in the sweat and toil needed, then I am not wasting my contacts and resources on the launch.

        Paying a launch manager/broekr $5k up front and then a portion of rev is not for everybody, but just keep in mind where the broker is coming from. Like I said, the difference between a $100 and six figure launch or a 10 unit and 3,000 unit launch is not really that big. In fact, it has WAY WAY less to do with the product than with the sales process and affiliate recruitment (which is what the broker/manager does!)
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  • Profile picture of the author scottlin
    I am interested in the answer to that as well. I am also possibly looking for a JV broker but i too would not be prepared to pay huge upfront money although an amount to show i am serious is a small possibility but I'd need to be convinced of why.

    Look forward to your answer to Chris's question re security!

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      A "genuine JV broker" (as you put it) is a professional service provider.

      If you want to work with the best of the best, you're going to have to pay a retainer. Just as you would with a top notch attorney, consultant, CPA, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
      Originally Posted by Chris- View Post

      How is me giving money to someone whether they do anything for me or not, "security" for me? It is the exact opposite of security, it is risk, precisely.

      I am looking for a JV broker who will get paid for what they DO.

      Chris
      Originally Posted by scottlin View Post

      I am interested in the answer to that as well. I am also possibly looking for a JV broker but i too would not be prepared to pay huge upfront money although an amount to show i am serious is a small possibility but I'd need to be convinced of why.

      Look forward to your answer to Chris's question re security!

      Thanks
      Although I understand where both of you are coming from I think you're slightly missing the point. You are certainly correct that there's risk for the seller i.e. you, but there's equally risk for the broker in a whole range of things.

      One thing's for sure the top JV brokers have the contacts, know how to push them so they won't wiggle out easily, analyse your offer and sales funnel generally making sure it's all tip top and many other things besides.

      All I would say is I didn't use a JV broker for my recent WSO and although it's so far gone pretty well I definitely would have used a JV broker in retrospect. Just for the JV recruitment hassle it's worth it's weight in gold let me tell you!

      In short a reputable JV broker needs to be compensated for their time and work much like any other profession.

      Joel
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris-
        Originally Posted by Joel Ross View Post

        Although I understand where both of you are coming from I think you're slightly missing the point. You are certainly correct that there's risk for the seller i.e. you, but there's equally risk for the broker in a whole range of things.

        One thing's for sure the top JV brokers have the contacts, know how to push them so they won't wiggle out easily, analyse your offer and sales funnel generally making sure it's all tip top and many other things besides.

        (snip)

        Joel
        I do understand that the only real measure of value is what you can persuade someone else to pay, so if these big JV brokers can get people paying several thousand dollars with zero guarantee of any return on that, then that's what they're worth to those people that pay them I do appreciate that these top few JV brokers will have access to the biggest lists, and know what they're doing, and that's worth something.

        However, I presume that there's also some JV brokers who haven't established themselves such a reputation yet, and who have access to some lists, but not necessarily the very biggest, and who'd be willing to put in as much risk as the list owner and the product creator do.

        Since the JV broker takes a percentage of sales, the same as the list-owner and the product creator do, and each seem to me to be putting in approximately equal amounts of value, I would think there would be JV brokers who would take an equal risk to the other partners in the JV. If not, then I might chose to become one such JV broker myself


        Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
          Originally Posted by Chris- View Post

          I do understand that the only real measure of value is what you can persuade someone else to pay, so if these big JV brokers can get people paying several thousand dollars with zero guarantee of any return on that, then that's what they're worth to those people that pay them I do appreciate that these top few JV brokers will have access to the biggest lists, and know what they're doing, and that's worth something.

          However, I presume that there's also some JV brokers who haven't established themselves such a reputation yet, and who have access to some lists, but not necessarily the very biggest, and who'd be willing to put in as much risk as the list owner and the product creator do.

          Since the JV broker takes a percentage of sales, the same as the list-owner and the product creator do, and each seem to me to be putting in approximately equal amounts of value, I would think there would be JV brokers who would take an equal risk to the other partners in the JV. If not, then I might chose to become one such JV broker myself


          Chris
          Hi Chris, I think it's like many professions to be honest in that the people who are either not proven in what they do or for some reason aren't valuing their proposition may potentially consider offering such an arrangement as you describe.

          However, as soon as they do prove themselves to have gotten the desired results you can be sure they'll work for both a large upfront fee and commissions for the sales made. In fact some of the names mentioned above I personally know what they charge for their services and from the sounds of it if you knew what the charges were your jaw would likely hit the ground!

          I can't emphasise enough the value of having such a broker who will put the necessary pressure on JV's so they don't pull out last minute. From my own experience I can tell you that many big JV's even if they really like your offer and say they will promote don't actually do so, which is where a top broker is really worth his corn IMO.

          In short I think there are some brokers who would be prepared to offer such an arrangment but you'd be lucky to find them.

          Joel
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    I 've found the names of a few JV brokers. I've PM'd with Kenster, who charges a lot of money up front, and seen posts saying that Willie Crawford does the same.

    The other names of JV brokers I've come accross so far are :-

    Dave Foran
    Mike Merz
    Ben Brooks
    sohail@sohail-khan.com
    JVnotifypro
    jvbrokerinternational.com (David Canham)

    I don't know if any of those charge an upfront fee, and I'm in the middle of other projects currently so haven't got around to trying to contact those yet.

    I also found a JV broker website comming up from a Google search, but got no reply at all from them to a previous enquiry about a JV for a SEO service, so will leave them till last this time

    I am still interested in additional info if anyone else has anything to add


    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Chris,

      Have you checked out the JV sub forum here at WF? You can set up your own JVs, ad swaps, etc. to get you a little more momentum.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris-
        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        Chris,

        Have you checked out the JV sub forum here at WF? You can set up your own JVs, ad swaps, etc. to get you a little more momentum.
        Yes, I'm aware of it, thanks very much for the idea, and will keep it in mind. Another option is directly contacting smaller list owners with a JV offer.

        Also, just in case you don't know, SafeSwaps will be useful once ones list is up to about 100 or so, because then you can advertise on someone elses list and they advertise on yours, so you can quickly build your list (and when your own list is big, you can just sell to your own list!). They don't advise you doing a swap until your list is about 100 or more, though, and mine's only at about 25 so far! You can do solo ads on other's lists, on that site, to build your list initially, but that costs money, and I'd rather keep my cash-flow positive as much as possible (I am even administering my list manually so far).

        Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by Chris- View Post

          <snip>

          but that costs money, and I'd rather keep my cash-flow positive as much as possible (I am even administering my list manually so far).

          Chris
          Chris, maybe you're already aware....but if you don't want to administer your list manually, you can have a list of up to 2,000 for free with Email Marketing and Email List Manager | MailChimp.
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          • Profile picture of the author Chris-
            Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

            Chris, maybe you're already aware....but if you don't want to administer your list manually, you can have a list of up to 2,000 for free with Email Marketing and Email List Manager | MailChimp.
            Ah, I didn't know that, that's very good to know! I only knew of AWeber who I think charge $30 a month however small your list is (I used my $1 trial first month with them some time ago!). Thanks


            Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author scottlin
    Thanks for your input guys, good stuff!
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    Yes, I was going to clarify what I want another way . . . my products are good, and do make sales, but might not have the best sales copy in the world. My list is small, but growing. What I am looking for, is a JV broker at around the same level as myself, not one of the top ones.

    I presume that not every JV broker starts at the top, so there must be some JV brokers who have made a start but who aren't in the big leagues yet, although having said that I guess that it is looking like JV brokers are less common than list owners or product creators


    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
    Originally Posted by Chris- View Post

    By "genuine" I mean JV brokers who take a percentage of the successful sales (50% would be fine), NOT those who charge a huge fee before you even start.
    Chris, what you are describing are affiliates, not JV brokers. BIG difference there. An affiliate works for commission only. A JV broker works for not only commission, but also (usually) a significant up-front fee as well.

    The reason JV brokers charge an upfront fee is because they have already put in the time and effort to develop good working relationships with the top marketers / list-owners in the industry... and because of that, they can obviously provide FAR more value to you than the average affiliate can.

    That said, you certainly don't need a JV broker in order to do well. If you have a great product that converts well in a highly-visible marketplace, then good affiliates WILL find you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    I understand your points, Kenster, thanks for your comments. What you are offering makes sense for someone with lots of money to risk, and lots of experience with JV's etc.. However, some of us are starting at different stages from that.

    What would you suggest for someone who has a good product which sells (my WSO sold at about 2% of the page views), a small list (my list is about 27 members so far), no money to invest, and no experience with JVs? ie. how do I get from where I am now, to the stage where I CAN work with someone like yourself?

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    I'll also add that doing a Google search for "JV brokers" I noticed that there are a bunch of them on LinkedIn. Although some of them might not be IM JV brokers, maybe some of the are, so that's another option worth investigating

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
    My advice would be to not waste guys like Kensters' time (and I say this politely) as you are far from ready to deal with any jv brokers.

    Right now, in your current state, you have no leverage.

    You need to add 2 zeros (or at least 1) to your list size of 27 before you can have any real leverage or credibility in a marketplace like this.

    The best way to get people promoting your product is to FIRST make them money as an affiliate of their products. But since your list is only 27, you probably won't get many clicks when you email them (maybe 4 or 5), let alone make any sales.

    So you have some heavy lifting to do on your own before any affiliates or JV Brokers take you seriously.

    Sell some more of your stuff, build your list faster, come out with some more WSO's or bump your existing WSO's so you can hopefully make more sales from people who haven't saw it yet.

    - Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    Thanks for your comments Jason!

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenster
    Get some good products together, sell at 100% commission on the front and some commission on the back...it's a quick way to gain credibility, a list, exposure, etc

    then move onto the big launches!
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    thanks for your suggestions, Kenster

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenster
    Anytime buddy!
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  • Profile picture of the author aroth
    Great info here guys, thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author David Canham
    Hi Chris,

    I charge a Non-Refundable $5000 retainer upfront. I have "1" opening and your launch day would be determined by how fast you move on the deal. Right now you're looking at early to mid January being the actual launch day. I deliver results. I have signed Mutual NDAs on all of my clients, so before you ask about successes or amounts, please know I never share that with anyone due to mutual confidentiality.

    I Deliver Results.

    If this interests you then email me at admin@jvbrokerinternational.com to get started. The first step is to Sign a Mutual NDA before we even speak any business.

    Please note this position will be filled by someone else who knows how to act on an offer within the next 5 days. I turn down 90% of the people who seek me out. Don't be one of them.
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    http:productlaunchspecialists.com


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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Im not really a jv broker, what I do is help people with no capital that have great ideas.
    I must work on the project with you to stick to warriors rules.

    I do not charge an upfront fee, in fact I pay for most things if your accepted. Payment from you will come after you have a successful launch.

    I do understand about Kenster and Willies retainer fee though. I have several thousand ona list while they have hundreds of thousands.

    I have seen everyone's wso's flop at least once so there is no guarantee on your wso.
    Mine and my teams wso's sell between 50 to the thousands. It just depends on your product. If you check my signature you will find the link.

    Thanks and good luck.

    I do aplogize, picked this up from google so didn't know I was in a thread without sigs.
    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...floor-now.html
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenster
      Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke View Post

      Im not really a jv broker, what I do is help people with no capital that have great ideas.
      I must work on the project with you to stick to warriors rules.

      I do not charge an upfront fee, in fact I pay for most things if your accepted. Payment from you will come after you have a successful launch.

      I do understand about Kenster and Willies retainer fee though. I have several thousand ona list while they have hundreds of thousands.

      I have seen everyone's wso's flop at least once so there is no guarantee on your wso.
      Mine and my teams wso's sell between 50 to the thousands. It just depends on your product. If you check my signature you will find the link.

      Thanks and good luck.

      I do aplogize, picked this up from google so didn't know I was in a thread without sigs.
      http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...floor-now.html


      First, I turn down a large majority of proposals I see because the WSO forum is a very sensitive space and offers must be positioned well for them to take off and I look for specific qualities and characteristics in the vendor as well. Most of the bigger brokers/managers are very picky so if they aren't asking you questions and digging deeper into you and your product, think about why that may be

      Little things make huge differences in a product launch....and generally it's NOT THE QUALITY of the product that's the biggest variable in launch success...in fact, I would argue it's not even top 3.

      Now I do launch management/brokering on the side and I am booked up for a very long time so I am not trying to sell my service here (frankly, I'm not actively looking to take on anything for many months). SO NO..I AM NOT OPEN FOR BUSINESS!

      But let me give those of you out there who are looking for brokers/managers some advice because as I said, the WSO market is a VERY sensitive one, a very dynamic one, and one that not many people truly understand the workings of.

      This is what you should look for...

      1. A MANAGER - Having a broker alone is not nearly enough these days. Affiliates have hundreds or thousands of offers to promote and they are presented these options every day. Your launch must be set up top notch and executed top notch to even be in the running to promote. So you need somebody who understands the market (and understands what the big affiliates are looking for) to set up, structure, position, and execute the launch...not just let JVs know about your launch. You want a full manager, not just a broker

      2. RELATIONSHIPS - Launches are primarily affiliate driven these days. For the big launches (what everybody wants) I would argue that the 80/20 rule is probably a bit conservative...so a very very small number of big affiliates are going to drive a majority of the traffic on big launches. There are only so many big affiliates. Not only do you have to know WHO they are (many people know who they are) but you must KNOW them to have a shot at getting your launch looked at.

      3. WSOs ARE DIFFERENT: You need to find somebody who REALLY understands the WSO space if you are launching a WSO. It is MUCH different than launching a product outside of the forum in almost every way...positioning, structure, pricing, commissions are all different on the forum than the outside world. So do your best to find out how much experience the potential broker/manager has in doing big WSO launches.

      4. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR: Though this is not always the case and many people will argue with me here, from my experience (knowing many of the biggest brokers in this space) you ALMOST ALWAYS get what you pay for in a broker/manager. If a broker/manager can drive huge traffic and is one of the more successful people in the space, they know they are worth more money and they demand it...and rightfully so. Whether it's HUGE retainers, a big portion of the gross rev or even a majority of the net proceeds or most often...a combination of a huge retainer and large portion of rev....big brokers know they can demand that. If they weren't good, nobody would be in line begging for their services.

      As I tell my coaching students, the difference between a 50 unit and 4000 unit launch is not that great...it's little things that make big differences. It's not how good the product is or how cool the product creator is...there are many more launch related variables that are far more important.

      NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT...

      Most big launches have a big broker/manager on them OR the product creator his or her self is experienced in launches and has big affiliate relationships BUT getting a broker/manager isn't right for everybody. For example, if you don't have a product concept that can be positioned well for this space, then no matter who you bring on board, you probably won't get much traction...and therefore hiring a manager would be a waste.

      So, look at your individual situation and determine what you are looking for, what your goals are, what your long term goals are, what your capital restraints are, and everything else...and then decide if it makes sense for you or not.

      If it does...then be sure to closely look at who you are hiring because I'll repeat myself like a broken record...little things make big differences in the launch space.

      AND AGAIN, I AM NOT LOOKING TO TAKE ON ANYTHING SO PLEASE DON'T REACH OUT TO ME WITH PROPOSALS

      To your success and prosperity,

      ~Kenster
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      • Profile picture of the author illmill
        Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

        4. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR:
        Thanks for the informative post! What can someone expect to pay for a broker who is good, has the connections and understands everything that you outlined in your post?
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        • Profile picture of the author David Canham
          Originally Posted by illmill View Post

          Thanks for the informative post! What can someone expect to pay for a broker who is good, has the connections and understands everything that you outlined in your post?
          Hi Illmill,

          Whats your product? Setup? Availability for communication? Earlier in this thread I responded on Oct 13th 2012. That position is still open but fading fast as I'm currently in talk's with 2 prospective clients vying for that spot.

          I'm always available by email, skype, admin@jvbrokerinternational.com or david.canham1
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          http:productlaunchspecialists.com


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        • Profile picture of the author Kenster
          Originally Posted by illmill View Post

          Thanks for the informative post! What can someone expect to pay for a broker who is good, has the connections and understands everything that you outlined in your post?

          The brokers who can drive the most traffic and have the best connections will charge a few grand down and then a percentage of gross or net.

          Just to throw out some numbers.

          Many brokers do 3k down and 10% of GROSS sales or 40-50% of NET sales

          Better brokers will charge more.

          I am not accepting people but the minimum I would personally ever do in the WSO space would be 4-5k down and 15% gross. Keep in mind that there is a whole funnel and the percentage applies to the entire funnel.

          And of course newer brokers will charge less.

          And remember, better brokers have MANY proposals thrown their way so it's not a matter of just being able to pay and accepting the terms...they need to pick you just as you need to pick them.

          and...

          I know nearly every single big player in the WSO space and I can tell you with certainty that you will want to do your research before hiring anybody. There are a lot of people pretending to know the big players out there.

          Like I said, more often than not, you get what you pay for

          ...like many things in business
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  • Profile picture of the author James Foster
    Do you have data about your EPC from your list and that of past affiliates?

    Your problem is you're unknown, and good brokers are booked MONTHS in advance. Everyone I know is booked 6 months out. When they do have an opening, they're going to take on clients they already know and have a great track record of success.

    The only way you're going to get in with someone like that is you have friends who have worked with them in the past and will vouch for you.

    You seam to be coming at this from a prospective that JV Brokers need people with products. They don't. They don't need new clients either. They've got enough to keep them busy for a long long time.

    And as other people have said before, anyone who is actually good at this WILL charge an upfront fee. The reason for this is, even the biggest players in the market still make duds once in a while, and they don't want to spend all their time and energy and make nothing in return. It's a fail safe... and really , if you're not willing to invest a couple grand in yourself, it's a big red flag for JV brokers.

    So don't expect JV Brokers to come beating down your door because you put up an ad saying you're looking for one. You are going to need to find them. You're going to need to prove that your products are worth their time to promote, and you're going to have to make your own friends and find your own affiliates who will vouch for you.

    That's a realistic lay of the land. Hope it helps.

    PS- 2% conversion on a WSO is not a good number. It maybe outside the WF world; and it's definitely a good conversion when you're sending cold traffic to an offer... but most affiliates won't even look at a product without a 10% conversion rate on a WSO. You should definitely have a pro look at your copy and make recommendations to you on improving it.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Canham
      Originally Posted by James Foster View Post

      Do you have data about your EPC from your list and that of past affiliates?

      Your problem is you're unknown, and good brokers are booked MONTHS in advance. Everyone I know is booked 6 months out. When they do have an opening, they're going to take on clients they already know and have a great track record of success.

      The only way you're going to get in with someone like that is you have friends who have worked with them in the past and will vouch for you.

      You seam to be coming at this from a prospective that JV Brokers need people with products. They don't. They don't need new clients either. They've got enough to keep them busy for a long long time.

      And as other people have said before, anyone who is actually good at this WILL charge an upfront fee. The reason for this is, even the biggest players in the market still make duds once in a while, and they don't want to spend all their time and energy and make nothing in return. It's a fail safe... and really , if you're not willing to invest a couple grand in yourself, it's a big red flag for JV brokers.

      So don't expect JV Brokers to come beating down your door because you put up an ad saying you're looking for one. You are going to need to find them. You're going to need to prove that your products are worth their time to promote, and you're going to have to make your own friends and find your own affiliates who will vouch for you.

      That's a realistic lay of the land. Hope it helps.

      PS- 2% conversion on a WSO is not a good number. It maybe outside the WF world; and it's definitely a good conversion when you're sending cold traffic to an offer... but most affiliates won't even look at a product without a 10% conversion rate on a WSO. You should definitely have a pro look at your copy and make recommendations to you on improving it.
      Thank You James I could not have worded it any better.
      Signature
      David Canham
      Certified JV Broker
      Product Launch Specialist
      http:productlaunchspecialists.com


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  • Profile picture of the author trcb
    Really enjoyed the thread and great to meet JV team.

    I am a fellow Joint Venture Broker and help companies to reach out to strategic partnerships for mutual success.

    My direct line is 678-288-4375 and My skypeid is siddique30024. I prefer Skype communication.

    Looking forward to connecting and speaking with you soon.

    To your outrageous success,
    Siddique
    America's Favorite Joint Venture Authority
    Atlanta GA
    Phone: 678-288-4375
    Skypeid: siddique30024
    siddique@trcb.com
    http://www.facebook.com/siddiquefans
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    • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
      Originally Posted by trcb View Post

      Really enjoyed the thread and great to meet JV team.

      I am a fellow Joint Venture Broker and help companies to reach out to strategic partnerships for mutual success.

      My direct line is 678-288-4375 and My skypeid is siddique30024. I prefer Skype communication.

      Looking forward to connecting and speaking with you soon.

      To your outrageous success,
      Siddique
      America's Favorite Joint Venture Authority
      Atlanta GA
      Phone: 678-288-4375
      Skypeid: siddique30024
      siddique@trcb.com
      http://www.facebook.com/siddiquefans
      Siddique - expect to get many prank calls now - lol
      Signature

      "Human thoughts have the tendency to transform themselves into their physical equivalent." Earl Nightingale

      Super Affiliates Hang Out Here

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